Log for #openttd on 14th September 2017:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:13  <_dp_> too much realism :p
00:00:26  <Eddi|zuHause> no such thing :p
00:01:54  <_dp_> I kinda like instabreaks, sometimes it's the only way to stop trains from crashing)
00:02:17  <_dp_> emergency rail removal :)
00:04:09  <Eddi|zuHause> the algorithm above doesn't really remove that
00:04:29  <Eddi|zuHause> only disallowing removing rails with reservation would change that
00:04:38  <_dp_> well, yeah, but you said something about "train in the way" earlier :p
00:05:01  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
00:05:14  <Eddi|zuHause> but that's completely separate
00:05:26  <Eddi|zuHause> could allow that as a cheat, or something
00:06:24  <Eddi|zuHause> the convert rail tool also would need a check for whether the new speed limit could be met
00:06:31  <Eddi|zuHause> which may be too much work
00:06:45  <Eddi|zuHause> so better to just scratch the whole idea :p
00:10:33  *** chomwitt has quit IRC
00:11:41  <_dp_> just slowing down asap in case of converting seams reasonable enough
00:11:56  *** gelignite has quit IRC
00:12:01  <_dp_> otherwise you can't even convert underneath a moving traing which is going to be super annoying
00:12:55  *** FLHerne has quit IRC
00:14:41  <_dp_> oh, now I remembered why it was so hard to calculate braking when I though about it
00:14:59  <_dp_> it was supposed to be an event-based system without any ticks
00:15:13  <_dp_> so need to calculate exact times for everything
00:17:40  <_dp_> amazing, I have two trains on one track and they still haven't crashed.
00:17:48  <_dp_> how do people even crash them xD
00:18:02  *** chomwitt has joined #openttd
00:18:46  <_dp_> have an idea for #coop, nsnw - no signal network xD
00:19:22  <Eddi|zuHause> back in the days, brianetta used to run networks like that
00:19:58  <Eddi|zuHause> timed so the trains would reach the sidings at the correct time
00:20:17  <_dp_> ah, timed
00:20:38  <_dp_> mine is osnw then I guess, one (path) signal network)
00:20:52  <Eddi|zuHause> it might not be possible anymore, because trains check paths at station exit
00:21:02  <_dp_> nothing's timed but reservations do the trick
00:22:22  <Eddi|zuHause> well, reservations are meant to be crash-safe (as long as the player doesn't screw with the network)
00:23:42  <_dp_> they are kind of dull though since they reserve complete path and just stop train if they cant
00:23:54  *** Flygon has joined #openttd
00:24:13  <_dp_> wonder if there is a way to pack several trains going same way on one track with reservations
00:24:20  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not an automatic moving-block signalling system :p
00:24:51  <_dp_> huh? sound like minecraft
00:25:27  <Eddi|zuHause> not that kind of block :p
00:26:01  <_dp_> xD
00:26:14  <Eddi|zuHause> a signal block is the space between two signals, which only one train may occupy
00:26:49  <_dp_> yeah, I figured already once I got what block are you talking about)
00:26:52  <Eddi|zuHause> a "moving block" is a modern system where a virtual signal moves ahead of the train (braking distance away)
00:27:33  <_dp_> is that some real signaling system?
00:27:59  <Eddi|zuHause> moving block systems allow very fast speeds (because the driver doesn't need to see the signal) and very tight packing of trains
00:28:33  <Eddi|zuHause> ETCS level 2 might be moving block
00:28:47  <_dp_> why does it even need a driver :p
00:29:14  <Eddi|zuHause> that's level 3 :p
00:29:51  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, you need these computerized signals for speeds > 160km/h
00:30:17  <Eddi|zuHause> so high speed tracks are generally equipped with such a system
00:30:39  <Eddi|zuHause> also, some metro systems use this for the tight packing ability
00:31:07  *** Hiddenfunstuff has quit IRC
00:33:01  <_dp_> japan certainly uses some other tight packing system xD
00:33:21  <Eddi|zuHause> not that kind of packing :p
00:36:52  *** chomwitt has quit IRC
00:36:53  <Wolf01> 'night
00:36:56  *** Wolf01 has quit IRC
00:43:49  *** chomwitt has joined #openttd
00:47:59  <_dp_> what's the maximum length of a train part, 8/8?
00:48:56  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
00:50:17  <_dp_> iron horse seems to have longer wagons
00:50:18  *** chomwitt has quit IRC
00:50:28  <Eddi|zuHause> those are articulated vehicles
00:50:35  <_dp_> ah
00:51:34  <Eddi|zuHause> for extra fun, look at CETS
00:53:21  <_dp_> is it on bananas?
00:54:53  <Eddi|zuHause> no, it's not released (or finished, for that matter), but you find it on devzone
00:55:57  <_dp_> all I found is this
00:56:27  <_dp_> ah, should've checked repository, not files)
00:56:34  <_dp_> totally not used to devzone
00:58:07  <_dp_> nah, I give up, too much code :p
00:58:20  <Eddi|zuHause>
01:03:57  <_dp_> omg
01:04:25  <_dp_> how does that even
01:04:29  <_dp_> what
01:04:52  <Eddi|zuHause> i know, must have been a total crazyperson who came up with that :p
01:04:59  <_dp_> that's some dark sorcery you have there :p
01:06:28  <_dp_> well, whatever it appears to be, as long as for a game everything is < 8/8 it should be fine)
01:06:30  <_dp_> <=
01:09:27  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, 8 is max length. longer vehicles can only be articulated
01:09:36  <Eddi|zuHause> like, my wagons of length 10 are 3+4+3
01:13:10  <_dp_> just replacing / with rounddivsu seems to have fixed issues with weird wagon lengths
01:20:05  <_dp_> probably not all of them but definitely some
01:59:14  *** glx has quit IRC
03:04:17  *** DDR has quit IRC
03:05:06  *** DDR has joined #openttd
03:05:21  *** DDR_ has joined #openttd
03:06:36  *** DDR_ has quit IRC
04:45:55  *** Exec has quit IRC
04:46:58  *** Exec has joined #openttd
04:52:40  *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
05:24:40  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
05:34:45  *** Cubey has quit IRC
06:04:46  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
06:49:40  *** orudge has quit IRC
06:49:57  *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
07:03:11  *** Biolunar has joined #openttd
07:28:54  *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd
07:32:16  *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has quit IRC
07:36:16  *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC
07:36:29  *** gelignite has joined #openttd
07:41:53  *** supermop_ has quit IRC
07:52:37  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
08:08:26  *** Biolunar has quit IRC
08:10:35  *** orudge has joined #openttd
08:21:13  *** Jomann has joined #openttd
08:21:50  *** tycoondemon has quit IRC
08:22:05  *** tycoondemon has joined #openttd
08:24:03  *** Jomann has quit IRC
08:28:40  *** Jomann has joined #openttd
08:37:15  *** Jomann has quit IRC
08:37:43  *** Progman has joined #openttd
08:37:47  *** mindlesstux has quit IRC
08:38:17  *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd
08:41:56  *** Jomann has joined #openttd
08:55:46  *** Jomann has quit IRC
09:01:21  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
09:05:28  *** Jomann has joined #openttd
09:09:53  *** blocage has joined #openttd
09:19:02  *** abchirk_ has joined #openttd
09:20:51  *** Jomann has quit IRC
09:22:37  *** abchirk_ has quit IRC
09:31:24  *** Progman has quit IRC
09:39:20  *** Montana has joined #openttd
09:46:35  *** Celestar has quit IRC
09:59:42  *** Celestar has joined #openttd
10:04:00  *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
10:10:08  *** gelignite has quit IRC
10:13:52  *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd
10:14:29  <__ln__> o/
10:15:06  <Wolf01> o/
10:17:10  *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
10:18:42  <crem> \o
10:20:15  *** Celestar has quit IRC
10:24:17  *** tycoondemon has quit IRC
10:28:02  *** Biolunar has joined #openttd
10:31:56  *** Celestar has joined #openttd
10:31:59  <Wolf01> I think that I really need to redo the synchronization part of my app...
10:36:25  <__ln__>
10:38:15  *** TheMask96 has quit IRC
10:43:37  *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd
10:56:04  *** Hiddenfunstuff has joined #openttd
11:04:42  *** SiRev has joined #openttd
11:08:10  <SiRev> Hi, anywone around?
11:36:00  <Wolf01> Maybe
12:12:29  <Eddi|zuHause> unlikely
12:16:19  <Wolf01> Did you reach a good point with the discussion of this night?
12:17:47  <Eddi|zuHause> nothing you haven't seen
12:18:47  <Wolf01> I didn't even follow it, and I don't think I want to read the log because it's a wall of text I might not understand :P
12:20:45  * andythenorth drawing trains
12:20:53  <andythenorth> still got length problems eh
12:21:21  <Wolf01> I'm cursing all the divinities I know because I found some problems with my app
12:27:12  <andythenorth> I am getting tied in knots trying to make a viable 1 tile pax train
12:27:22  <andythenorth> 6/8 engine, 4/8 mail car, 6/8 coach
12:27:43  <andythenorth> is that even a valid goal?
12:27:51  <Eddi|zuHause> probably not
12:28:16  <Eddi|zuHause> trains that short should be railcars
12:28:46  <andythenorth> it tends to spam the buy menu with mail and pax wagons that are too short for other uses
12:29:03  <andythenorth> it can be done neatly with an articulated vehicle
12:29:08  <andythenorth> BUT AUTOREPLACE :|
12:29:10  <andythenorth> so no
12:30:24  <andythenorth>
12:30:44  <andythenorth> me nor frosch neither have any idea if that should even be supported
12:32:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i think it should be supported, but the current autoreplace failure is not fixable in the existing framework
12:33:00  <Eddi|zuHause> so you need consist replace
12:37:09  <andythenorth> hmm
12:37:10  <andythenorth> shame
12:37:24  <andythenorth> 6/8 engine + 10/8 mixed coach (mail and pax)
12:37:26  <andythenorth> works well
12:38:06  <Wolf01> Hahe hate hate anger hate hate anger depression :(
12:39:15  <andythenorth> coffee, Lego
12:40:33  <Wolf01> I'll have a chocolate cookie
12:40:48  <andythenorth> how long IRL is 30 years of OpenTTD play?
12:40:57  <andythenorth> assuming no ffwd
12:41:55  <Eddi|zuHause> 1 year is somewhere between 12 and 15 minutes
12:42:19  <Wolf01> @calc 2.2 * 30 * 365
12:42:19  <DorpsGek> Wolf01: 24090
12:42:28  <andythenorth> eh 6 hours then
12:43:05  <__ln__> andythenorth: so that's where the time mysteriously disappeared and you weren't abducted by aliens after all?
12:43:12  <andythenorth> isn’t it
12:43:37  * andythenorth lost more time to obsessing about wagon lengths :P
13:01:02  <andythenorth> 15 pax and mail coaches
13:01:06  <andythenorth> seems a lot per game
13:23:04  <Wolf01> Why do people write html with unquoted attributes?
13:23:42  <Wolf01> And why browsers allow them to continue with this stupid behaviour?
13:24:19  <peter1138> Ew
13:24:26  <peter1138> Apparently XHTML was too hard, so they dropped it.
13:25:19  <Wolf01> The problem is that now I can't even load some pages because it seem there isn't a way to tell the XmlReader to be kind and load those anyway
13:27:44  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: maybe you should collect some actual user experiences
13:29:10  <peter1138> Well, you shouldn't be loading HTML as XML any more.
13:29:29  <Wolf01> I need to parse it
13:29:54  <peter1138> But it's not XML.
13:30:24  <Wolf01> Eh, I don't have a HtmlReader which allows to manipulate the DOM
13:30:59  <peter1138>
13:31:08  <peter1138> Eh, it's in .Net land though.
13:34:36  <Wolf01> Wow, the parser is long
13:41:47  *** supermop has joined #openttd
13:43:13  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: design me a survey? o_O
13:43:21  *** sim-al2 has quit IRC
13:53:14  <Wolf01> Is there an online tool which supports c# regex?
13:55:01  <crem> Are C# special?
13:55:05  <Wolf01> Yes
14:35:19  *** Flygon has quit IRC
14:41:19  <Wolf01> Anybody good with regex could help me finding only \w+=\w+ inside < >?
14:42:32  <crem> I would first find <.*?>, then search *=* inside
14:42:57  <Wolf01> Yes
14:43:17  <Wolf01> I'll do it with loops
14:43:24  <crem> But if you want...  <[^<>]*(\w+=\w+)[^<>]*>
14:43:41  <crem> Will only find one \w+=\w+ per <> though.
14:44:05  <blocage> <(\w+=\w+\s+)+> ?
14:44:14  <Eddi|zuHause> somehow i feel reminded of the kirby-dance
14:45:00  <crem> blocage: that will find  a=b in this example <c> a=b <d>
14:45:13  <blocage> <(\w+=\w+[^>A-Za-z0-9])+> ?
14:45:26  <Wolf01> None of the 2, crem's one returns everything into < > if there's a \w=\w match, blocage's one it's what I've already tried and doesn't return anything
14:45:35  <blocage> it's not what I understood
14:46:07  <blocage> <(\w+=\w+[^>A-Za-z0-9]+)+> ?
14:46:39  <Wolf01> I have <tag attribute=value another="good value">stuff which may contain x=y</tag> and I need to get only the "attribute=value"
14:48:24  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: you should make a proper parser that handles the <tag X>Y</tag> part, and then do your regex only in X
14:49:17  <Eddi|zuHause> lex/yacc or something
14:51:51  <blocage> look like XML, why do not use one of existing library ?
14:52:20  <Wolf01> Because it's malformed code and the CmlReader isn't able to load it
14:52:25  <Wolf01> *XmlReader
14:53:07  <blocage> in which way it is illformed ?
14:55:33  <Wolf01> In any possible way?
14:56:16  <blocage> xml reader can report the issue, some low level xml parseur may help, like sax parser
14:57:00  <blocage> Wolf01, you should have a valid syntax to parse a file, if not you are in trouble
14:57:06  <Wolf01> :)
14:58:16  <blocage> so, even if it's not a valid xml, it should have a valid syntax, so in which way your syntax differ from xml syntax :)
14:59:07  <blocage> for example: atribute=value is invalid in XML, you should have atrribute="value"
14:59:31  <Wolf01> Thank you, it's really my problem, now I would like to solve that
15:02:47  <blocage> Wolf01, what you want to achieve at hight level ?
15:03:07  <Wolf01> Load the XML to manipulate the DOM
15:03:08  <blocage> can you give some context :D
15:03:39  <blocage> And the XML is ill-formed ?
15:03:49  <Wolf01> Yes, almost always
15:05:47  <blocage>
15:06:07  <Wolf01> I need to do it programmatically
15:06:23  *** Cubey has joined #openttd
15:06:43  <blocage> Wolf01, you should define wihich ill-formed XML you want parse
15:06:53  <blocage> not all issue are recoverable
15:07:30  <blocage> and if you have a syntax, you may go for lex/yacc flex/bison
15:08:08  <blocage> making a lagage parser is full of pitfall
15:09:37  <blocage> lex and flex are lexer, they cut your file in keywords
15:10:44  <blocage> yacc and bison are actual parser that define the structure of keywords
15:10:45  <Wolf01> I think I'll just look to fix the worst errors, I don't want to load 500MB of libraries just to parse random strings for html
15:11:07  <blocage> You want fix an existing paser ?
15:11:23  <Wolf01> My app is already big enough without third party stuff
15:12:32  *** cHawk has quit IRC
15:12:51  <blocage> which regex langage do you use ?
15:13:03  <Wolf01> I'm doing it in c#
15:13:52  <Wolf01> The regex syntax is the same of many others, the implementation differs
15:14:21  *** Gja has joined #openttd
15:16:01  <blocage> Wolf01, which kind of input string do you want match ?
15:16:23  <Wolf01> RSS feeds
15:16:52  <Wolf01> Also atom ones
15:16:59  <blocage> mm I mean at low level within the code
15:17:08  <Wolf01> But that's another problem
15:17:27  <blocage> it's look like you already splited the document
15:17:53  <Wolf01> I get an array of feeds
15:19:37  <blocage> so you try to match <\w+\s+(\w+=\w+\s+|\w+="[^"]+\"\s+)+> with which string ?
15:19:57  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: really, i'd either go looking for a more forgiving XML/HTML Parser, or go the lex/yacc path
15:20:15  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: pure regex is likely the wrong approach here
15:20:27  <Wolf01> I'm doing it with loops
15:20:28  *** cHawk has joined #openttd
15:20:30  <blocage> +1 to Eddi|zuHause
15:22:04  <LordAro> Wolf01:
15:23:41  <Wolf01> So, I should just give up?
15:24:04  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
15:24:34  <supermop> man now i want a hiroden model
15:24:39  <LordAro> Wolf01: with regex? yes
15:42:43  <Wolf01> I should give up with the XmlReader
15:43:02  <Wolf01> It's impossible to give it a valid xml
15:43:17  <Wolf01> Even after fixing everything it still has something to blame
15:43:44  <Wolf01> Now it bitches about feedburner links having ":" in the middle of the href
15:44:32  <Eddi|zuHause> replace them with %XX?
15:44:37  <Wolf01> And it wants a space there...
15:44:48  <Wolf01> System.Xml.XmlException: 'V9AoX2Ar5FE' is an unexpected token. Expecting white space. Line 2, position 60.
15:47:42  <Eddi|zuHause> you can probably ignore the followup-exceptions, when the fix is as trivial as that
15:48:58  <Alkel_U3> Wolf01: can you give an example of the malformed stuff you're trying to parse?
15:49:38  <Wolf01> Just get the html from a random feed of slashdot
15:51:45  <Alkel_U3> can you point to an url, please?
15:52:15  <Wolf01>
15:52:34  <Alkel_U3> thanks
15:53:03  <Wolf01> But you might wget it, as the browser version is tampered
15:55:37  <Wolf01> Lol, I found one <a> tag with 2 hrefs...
15:55:47  <Wolf01> Clearly XmlReader doesn't like that
15:58:07  *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
16:13:04  *** blocage has quit IRC
16:28:53  *** SiRev has quit IRC
16:31:28  *** Gja has quit IRC
16:32:29  *** Gja has joined #openttd
16:38:42  *** Montana has quit IRC
16:43:06  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
16:43:30  <supermop> i wonder why there is such a paucity of model trams
16:46:06  <Wolf01> There are the kato ones, I've seen a nice diorama and I really liked it
16:49:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i think our local tram company sells a model tram
16:56:36  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i can't find it anymore
16:57:24  <Wolf01> Ok, I trashed all the XmlReader stuff and went back to the old plain "try to get stuff from a string and if you don't find it just return an empty string"
17:01:36  *** glx has joined #openttd
17:01:36  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx
17:05:39  *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
17:05:53  <Wolf01> Quak
17:07:11  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
17:09:51  <frosch123> moo
17:11:54  <debdog> This #channel does not have Super Cow Powers.
17:13:03  <frosch123> i used gentoo from 2005 to 2010
17:19:27  *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
17:40:39  <peter1138> And that was just completing the initial install and compilation.
17:46:06  <frosch123> i never complained about ottd compile times :)
17:46:25  <frosch123> and i compiled firefox only once, then i knew why even gentoo has a binary package for that
17:48:05  <peter1138> Before we went to C++, it was super quick to compile.
17:56:03  *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd
17:59:07  <supermop> Wolf01: the kato ones seem really generic
18:05:22  *** Gja has quit IRC
18:08:29  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
18:08:49  <andythenorth> o/
18:09:29  <frosch123> hoi
18:10:36  <supermop> yo andy
18:10:36  <andythenorth> supermop: which train shall I include in Iron Horse (Pony)
18:10:47  <supermop> of britishy ones?
18:11:01  <andythenorth> roughly
18:14:19  <supermop> pacers?
18:19:25  *** JacobD88 has quit IRC
18:20:06  <supermop> a mk1 emu with loads of doors down the side?
18:22:27  <andythenorth> nice suggestions :)
18:22:41  <andythenorth> I need a diesel, about 1960, freight, around 1500HP
18:22:45  <andythenorth> preferably fake
18:25:03  <andythenorth> and maybe named after a distinctively British animal :P
18:25:24  <frosch123> fox?
18:25:59  <supermop> badger
18:26:06  <supermop> stoat
18:26:08  <frosch123> thatcher?
18:26:16  <supermop> stoat sounds freight-y
18:26:20  <andythenorth> stoat is good
18:26:28  <andythenorth> I considered fox and badger also
18:26:28  <supermop> good and ugly
18:26:43  <andythenorth> because this is IH v2, I need to rename most of the engines I think
18:27:12  <supermop> hart?
18:27:27  <supermop> hart not freight-y sounding
18:27:50  <frosch123> is there room for a fast blue engine to be named hedgehog?
18:28:24  <supermop> some western hydraulic?
18:28:57  <andythenorth>
18:29:13  <andythenorth> supermop: Wizzo is a shortened class 52
18:29:19  <andythenorth> or a flattened class 42
18:29:38  <supermop> wizzo looks good
18:29:45  <supermop> v british looking
18:29:48  <andythenorth> Little Bear needs renamed
18:30:02  <supermop> maybe that should be the stoat
18:30:05  <andythenorth> maybe yes
18:30:14  <andythenorth> Shredder is the 1500hp freight engine
18:30:18  <andythenorth> could keep shredder
18:30:22  <andythenorth> or go for Badger
18:30:50  <andythenorth> it’s kind of the default freight choice
18:31:03  <andythenorth> good for 3-5 tiles
18:31:12  <supermop> hmm
18:31:21  <supermop> skylon
18:31:26  <supermop> v british
18:31:42  <supermop> but too 50s
18:31:57  <supermop> saltaire
18:33:10  <andythenorth> in RL, there were Kestrel and Lion
18:33:13  <supermop> are the warning panels yellow or 2cc?
18:34:20  <andythenorth>
18:34:23  <andythenorth> 2CC
18:34:27  <supermop> boo
18:34:33  <andythenorth> boo? o_O
18:35:15  *** Gja has joined #openttd
18:35:40  <supermop> yellow is mandatory to achieve BR-ness
18:35:59  <supermop> how about a name that evokes the twin engine part?
18:36:11  <supermop> swan?
18:36:19  <supermop> swans go about in couples
18:36:34  <supermop> not very freight-y
18:36:35  <andythenorth> swan probably good for an electric
18:36:44  <andythenorth> Avocet was class 89
18:36:57  <andythenorth>
18:37:01  <supermop> original vehicles could have used an avocet
18:37:05  <supermop> i always thought
18:37:11  <andythenorth> ha class 89 also called Badger :P
18:37:16  <supermop> looked slick in the gner livery
18:37:41  <supermop> after the sh 40 there is a dire lack of electric locomotives
18:38:01  <andythenorth> fortunately…newgrf ;)
18:38:15  <supermop> the grf that added a sh 50 and sh 60 is probably the most concise and well reasoned newgrf out there
18:38:35  <andythenorth> I could just go Tractor and do a class 37
18:38:40  <andythenorth> or I could do something Irish
18:39:15  <supermop> also bothers me: original vehicles, both electrics have large logo, all diesels have yellow fronts only
18:39:23  <andythenorth> noticed that yesterday
18:39:40  <andythenorth> had to look how the Roarer sprite compared to SH40 ;)
18:39:41  <supermop> sh 30 should have had yellow front and floss 47 should have had large logo
18:40:00  <supermop> as is 30 and 40 are basically the same
18:40:05  <andythenorth> if I do the 37,it has bonnets, which is distinctive
18:40:09  <andythenorth> not just another box
18:40:15  <supermop> yes,
18:40:26  <supermop> but those boxes are very british boxes
18:40:37  <supermop> no deltic?
18:41:06  <andythenorth> nah
18:41:13  <supermop> too boss?
18:41:17  <andythenorth> as Pikka found, it’s OP
18:41:22  <supermop> heh
18:41:32  <supermop> 92?
18:41:45  <supermop> oh man
18:42:09  <supermop> railfreight grey where 1 and 2 cc are only on the little logo badge?
18:42:34  <andythenorth> :P
18:42:55  <andythenorth> so a bodged 37, call it Tractor, Growler, or Syphon?
18:42:58  <supermop> yes i do own the BR graphic standards manual, how did you know
18:43:01  <andythenorth> or an animal name?
18:43:17  <supermop> syphon? like a tube?
18:43:23  <andythenorth> apparently
18:43:26  <andythenorth>
18:44:03  <supermop> syphon g sounds boss
18:44:33  <supermop> dog name?
18:44:40  <andythenorth> Bulldog?
18:47:25  <andythenorth> hmm something fake for the 1500hp freight engine would be best
18:47:28  <supermop> too british
18:47:32  <andythenorth> what’s a mini-peak?
18:47:37  <supermop> hill?
18:47:45  <supermop> knoll?
18:47:53  <andythenorth>
18:47:57  <andythenorth> but co-co
18:48:03  <andythenorth> foothill? :P
18:48:03  <supermop> coconut
18:48:09  <supermop> berm
18:48:16  <supermop> embankment
18:48:50  <supermop> morraine
18:49:00  <andythenorth> mound
18:49:01  <andythenorth> lump
18:49:14  <andythenorth> summit
18:50:27  <supermop> lump is particularly charming
18:50:45  <supermop> heap
18:51:06  <andythenorth> or I can keep Shredder which is class 33
18:51:10  <andythenorth> and fake the length
18:52:52  *** Biolunar has quit IRC
18:59:44  <supermop> i want some little hiroshima trams running about
19:00:00  <supermop> or a peach colored okayama tram
19:01:04  <supermop> incredibly there are no english language wikipedia pages for any of the hiroden rolling stock
19:05:18  *** gelignite has joined #openttd
19:08:12  <frosch123> isn't the hiroshima tram set the oldest tram set of all?
19:16:49  <supermop> hmm?
19:17:08  <supermop> i want little ones driving around my apartment
19:17:45  <frosch123> oh, didn't notice that the subject changed to hardware
19:17:53  *** andythenorth is now known as Guest4698
19:17:53  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
19:18:14  <andythenorth> supermop: for mini-peak: crag, bluff, tor, tump, pike?
19:18:45  <supermop> crag
19:19:07  <supermop> used to climb about on crags in yorkshire when i lived there
19:20:11  <supermop>
19:20:59  <andythenorth> such tram
19:21:15  <andythenorth> maybe I should decide what to draw, then name it :P
19:22:35  *** Guest4698 has quit IRC
19:24:22  <supermop>
19:28:08  <andythenorth> I like the micro car
19:30:34  *** Stimrol has joined #openttd
19:33:21  *** Gja has quit IRC
19:34:28  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
19:34:42  <supermop> in japan it is just 'car'
19:37:55  <andythenorth> supermop: what have I drawn? :(
19:37:56  <andythenorth>
19:38:05  <andythenorth> it’s all wrong
19:38:15  <supermop> hmmm
19:38:21  <supermop> its something
19:40:00  <frosch123> the roof could be from the xkcd phone 1874
19:45:54  *** tycoondemon has joined #openttd
19:49:23  <andythenorth> not sure what it’s supposed to be :)
19:49:58  <frosch123> the roof has 1-2 pixels too much at the lower border
19:53:59  *** tycoondemon has quit IRC
19:54:48  *** tycoondemon has joined #openttd
19:55:14  *** tycoondemon has quit IRC
19:59:31  <Eddi|zuHause> thing i found odd with the xkcd phone: should't the camera be at 1/3 of the height, because that's were the eyes should be (if properlx framed)?
19:59:46  <Eddi|zuHause> s/x/y/
20:00:12  <Eddi|zuHause> dangit, s/x /y /
20:01:41  <frosch123> no, the camera must be in the spot where you are looking at
20:02:00  <frosch123> it's not necessary to have the phone in parallel to the face
20:02:04  <frosch123> it's a camera, no scanner
20:02:41  <frosch123> though, wasn't there a scanner on the back?
20:03:00  <Eddi|zuHause> no, i mean the camera position is meant to have your face make eye contact with the other person
20:03:11  <Eddi|zuHause> so it should be where the other person's eyes are on the screen
20:04:08  <frosch123> oh, so it depend on the other person framing their picture correctly
20:04:15  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
20:04:16  <frosch123> shoudn't the camera move then?
20:04:32  <frosch123> i.e. automatic camera positioning
20:04:42  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe next year :p
20:06:42  <frosch123> they should have replaced the home button with a travel button
20:06:49  <frosch123> it's a mobile device after all
20:07:01  *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd
20:08:43  <frosch123> it probably should have wheels
20:08:49  <frosch123> or legs
20:11:54  <andythenorth> better
20:12:40  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: didn't they get into the autonomous car business? that's basically an iphone with wheels then
20:13:11  <andythenorth> xkcd car
20:14:22  <frosch123> the roof has a cooler?
20:15:41  <frosch123> i guess i cannot see the roof of engines usually, but i guess rain cooling also works?
20:16:17  <frosch123> anyway, i like the wheels
20:16:26  <frosch123> and the tank between them
20:17:26  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: coolers on the roof are quite common
20:28:10  <andythenorth> o_O
20:36:01  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: if both users have cameras in center of screen, wont both users eyes be at center?
20:48:25  <Wolf01> andythenorth: reply "we are remaking it from scratch"
20:49:34  <Wolf01> "also we are removing ships"
20:49:36  <supermop>
20:49:41  <supermop> only luck so far
20:49:57  <supermop> sold out but evidence that a product was made at some point
20:52:15  *** Geth has joined #openttd
20:58:01  <andythenorth> supermop:
20:58:05  *** Hiddenfunstuff has quit IRC
20:58:50  <supermop> those don't run in hiroshima anymore  as far as i know
20:59:12  <supermop> saw no pointy european style trams there
20:59:25  <supermop> also they still have trammies there
20:59:27  <andythenorth> ebay not producing much else :)
21:00:09  <supermop> also also, as compared to 2004-5, 2009, and 2013, there are now tones of women driving and conducting trains and trams in japan
21:00:22  <supermop> used to be pretty much a boys club
21:00:42  <supermop> shrinking labour market will open minds
21:01:57  <supermop> i think the answer is i will have to scratch build trams
21:04:17  *** Progman has joined #openttd
21:04:42  <supermop> hmm of course when i search ebay i just get tons of figurines of tramway conductors
21:04:56  <supermop> not sure wife would approve of me buying those instead
21:10:57  <andythenorth> buffet cars: BAD FEATURE?
21:11:33  <supermop> are you addy mk3 cars with different colored stripes along the top?
21:11:40  <andythenorth> dunno
21:11:55  <supermop> my BR graphic standards book has sample menus from spring 1968
21:11:56  <andythenorth> buffet car would give a payment boost
21:12:18  <frosch123> andythenorth: bad feature if you have to build them separately
21:12:25  <supermop> you could have cars as modules
21:12:31  <frosch123> nice if they are created automatically
21:12:42  <andythenorth> that negates the payment boost idea :)
21:12:44  <supermop> buy rake of cars, add buffet and the all become long distance
21:13:03  <supermop> add a metro car and they all get 4 doors and higher decay
21:13:04  <supermop> idk
21:13:06  <andythenorth> hmm
21:13:20  <frosch123> andythenorth: just have local cars and long distance cars
21:13:23  <andythenorth> you would always add the buffet car
21:13:32  <frosch123> isn't that what all sets do?
21:13:35  <andythenorth> so I might as well boost payment in all cases :P
21:13:37  <Eddi|zuHause> haha... "GähnOfThrones"...
21:13:40  <frosch123> or is that a reason to not do it as well?
21:13:48  <supermop> no one buys ticket to sit in the buffet car
21:14:01  <andythenorth> frosch123: I’ve only played sets with one type of coach per generation
21:14:13  <Eddi|zuHause> (... because german election campaign is soooo boring)
21:14:17  <andythenorth> I only use Pikka sets tbh
21:14:19  <supermop> should be a car with 0 capacity but payment boost to all other cars in rake?
21:14:38  <andythenorth> I only considered it because I can make it 6/8 long
21:14:42  <supermop> ha
21:14:50  <andythenorth> which happens to make integer length with 10/8 engine
21:15:02  <andythenorth> probably bad
21:15:34  <supermop> as long as tt pasengers are just as happy to take a horse cart or concorde to whereever fare differentiation is sort of hard to think to seriously about
21:16:18  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: i thought elections become more interesting again since the forecasts become worse?
21:16:21  <supermop> load speed works out to be the most valuable stat i find
21:16:42  <andythenorth> supermop: I’m doing fast and slow loading coaches
21:16:54  <andythenorth> but with 4 generations, that’s a 8 coaches
21:16:58  <andythenorth> which is a shitload :P
21:17:15  <supermop> as 'uncomfortable+high capacity' and 'comfortable+low capacity' work out to be a wash
21:17:28  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: that may be, but we won't know how accurate the forecasts actually are until it happened
21:17:49  <supermop> andythenorth: after doing some 200 something trucks and busses i lost my appetite to split local/long haul
21:17:55  <andythenorth> :P
21:18:03  <andythenorth> still NFI how to make a 1 tile train with a 6/8 engine
21:18:06  <andythenorth> and pax/mail
21:18:36  <supermop> even though the vanilla style buses are clearly closer to a coach than city bus, cant be assed
21:18:42  <andythenorth> I think the answer is 'not'
21:18:51  <andythenorth> unless I do 10/8 articulated pax coaches
21:19:10  <supermop> so instead just boosted capacity and load speed, and now they are both local and long distance
21:19:28  <supermop> andythenorth: 1 tile train is MUs
21:19:37  <supermop> or nothing
21:19:57  <andythenorth> for trains, is ‘fast loading’ vs ‘slow loading’ even a thing?
21:20:05  <supermop> 1 tile station looks stupid, dont bother making a nice looking train to go on a stupid looking station
21:20:08  <andythenorth> if you want high density, use metro
21:20:25  <andythenorth> they’re all 1 tile :P
21:20:25  <supermop> andythenorth: NJT = high capacity + slow loading
21:20:59  <supermop> type is extinct in europe and japan as far as i can tell
21:21:10  <supermop> but most american commuter railroads are like that
21:21:42  <supermop> loco hauled coaches with high density seating (even two floors) but only end doors
21:21:52  <supermop> and traps for low platforms
21:22:04  <frosch123> andythenorth: most intermediate-distance trains have two floors here
21:22:14  <supermop> NJT, Metra, whatever they have in minnesota
21:22:31  <frosch123> possibly the platforms are not long enough for more wagons
21:22:50  <supermop> per meter of train, NJT probably hold as much or more than typical full subway
21:23:00  <frosch123> i guess two-floor cars qualify as high capacity, slow loading
21:23:07  <supermop> frosch123: thats the issue in many suburban railroads here
21:23:36  <frosch123> what is njt?
21:23:42  <andythenorth> I could just keep the combined mail/pax coach for short trains
21:23:43  <frosch123> new jersey transit makes no sense
21:23:48  <andythenorth> but then auto-replace is broken
21:23:56  <supermop> new jersey transit. a shitty railroad. bombardier bi-level, with standees in the vestibule
21:24:31  <supermop> andythenorth: add apocryphal late game combined coaches
21:25:40  <supermop> i use as an example of a type of commuter railroad in the us that is constrained by platform length and frequency of trains per hour, so the consist ends up being very high density per-car
21:25:41  <frosch123> <- they kind of exist in two variants
21:25:50  <frosch123> the latter with a real separate engine
21:25:53  <frosch123> the former more mu-ish
21:26:39  <supermop>
21:26:58  <supermop> those bi-levels do not load fast
21:27:29  <supermop> especially at low platforms
21:28:39  <frosch123> yeah, they only have small doors
21:29:01  <supermop> the seating inside is very dense too
21:29:01  <frosch123> the ones i know and linked have two double doors
21:29:16  <frosch123> so two people can enter/leave in parallel for lower/upper deck
21:29:31  <supermop> so its an example of slow and dense, but not very british
21:29:55  <frosch123> anyway, do they intentionally look like made of tin metal?
21:30:33  <frosch123> to my eyes the njt cars look extremly ugly
21:30:42  <peter1138> Iconic American trains.
21:30:55  <Wolf01> All that steel grey
21:31:39  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the shortest viable engine-driven train should be 2 tiles... 1 tile is only sane with railcars
21:31:57  <peter1138>
21:32:02  <supermop> frosch123: to my eyes too
21:32:05  <supermop>
21:32:20  <supermop> these are even weirder as the upper level has no floor
21:32:22  <frosch123> looks like livestock transporter :)
21:33:01  <frosch123> no floor? on the inside?
21:33:12  <supermop>
21:33:34  <Wolf01> <frosch123> looks like livestock transporter :) <- totally
21:33:47  <supermop> Wolf01: it feels like one too to ride in
21:33:51  <frosch123> supermop: wtf? how do you get up there?
21:34:06  <peter1138> Seems wasteful of space.
21:34:08  <supermop> there is tiny like ships ladder/stair at one end
21:34:36  <supermop> the lower floor is not sunk like on a regular bi-level, it is at regular platform height
21:34:49  <supermop> the upper seats are like sitting in the luggage racks
21:35:01  <frosch123> oh right, no low floor
21:35:11  <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like an awesome idea
21:35:31  <supermop> as far as i know chicago is the only place these are used
21:35:45  <supermop> don't know who's idea it was
21:35:55  <supermop> they all seem pretty old
21:36:06  <frosch123> someone who thought that old people occupy to many seats
21:36:14  <supermop> the head room up there is maby 56"
21:36:31  <Eddi|zuHause> how much is that in real units?
21:36:41  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: x25.4
21:36:50  <frosch123> or someone who wanted to encourage women wearing trousers
21:36:51  <supermop> and the aisle is about 1 foot
21:37:53  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 56*2.54
21:37:53  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 142.24
21:37:53  <supermop> these trains are without a doubt some of the stupidest i have ever ridden
21:38:13  <Eddi|zuHause> that's not... high
21:38:51  <Eddi|zuHause> not that i can properly stand in regular german bilevel cars either...
21:38:53  <supermop> and they are somewhat dense in service patterns, but diesel hauled. only one branch is electrified
21:39:02  *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC
21:39:13  <supermop> the electric line uses EMUs built to the same stupid style
21:39:23  <peter1138> At least you can have bi-level carriages.
21:40:12  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you should completely trash your railway system and build a new one? :p
21:40:28  <supermop> peter1138:
21:40:33  <peter1138> We trashed it in the 60s...
21:40:42  <peter1138> Didn't get around to replacing it yet though.
21:40:50  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, you failed the build a new one :p
21:41:04  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: its already trashed that's why we have such stupid and ugly trains on our suburban routes
21:41:12  <supermop> and most cities no longer even have those
21:41:13  <peter1138> We're getting some "new" bits eventually but it'll be the same loading gauge.
21:41:39  <peter1138> I guess HS2 will be shitty as well, and that won't stop anywhere useful anyway.
21:42:04  <Eddi|zuHause> where does HS2 go?
21:42:27  <peter1138> London to Birmingham.
21:42:40  <peter1138> At least, the first section.
21:42:52  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure there is nothing useful inbetween :p
21:44:14  <supermop> look they bought new ones to be just as ugly and stupid as the old:
21:44:15  <supermop>
21:45:47  <Wolf01> We use these ones as double decker:
21:46:54  <supermop> damn it why is this thing 0:
21:46:55  <supermop>
21:47:07  <Wolf01> Top deck: Bottom deck:
21:47:51  <peter1138> Yeah but Italians are short.
21:48:37  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
21:48:43  <Wolf01> We have a lot of >1.85 ;)
21:48:52  <peter1138> 1.85 is short, yes.
21:49:43  <Wolf01> If you measure it in feet yes
21:50:02  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i'm certainly >1.85 :p
21:50:25  <Wolf01> I'm short, only 1.73 :(
21:52:58  <peter1138> Aww, my local TOC withdraw their Class 121 Bubble Car :(
21:53:42  <supermop> those exist on mainline railways stil?
21:54:19  <peter1138> Well it was withdrawn, so no :p
21:54:28  <Eddi|zuHause> what's a bubble car?
21:54:55  <supermop>
21:54:58  <supermop> i think
21:55:58  <supermop> this is quite nice:
21:56:13  <peter1138> Yeah,
21:56:28  <peter1138> 57 years service.
21:57:00  <supermop> we have trains on our subway older than that
21:57:57  <supermop> oh i guess they are gone now
21:58:04  <supermop> now 53 is the oldest
21:58:38  <supermop>
21:59:26  <Eddi|zuHause> well, in berlin they had trains built in the 1920s in use until the 1990s
21:59:42  <peter1138> Light weight stainless steel, yes. Hmm.
22:02:59  <Eddi|zuHause> currently, there's a modernisation wave going on, because former monopoly-operated regional networks are opened for "free market", typically with 15 year contracts. and lots of those mandated new trains, or heavily penalized offers with used trains
22:04:23  <Eddi|zuHause> when these contracts go up for renewal after 15 years, they probably allow used trains, to make trains average age around 30 years
22:05:12  *** tokai has joined #openttd
22:05:13  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
22:11:56  *** tokai|noir has quit IRC
22:15:10  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
22:21:01  *** gelignite has quit IRC
22:21:58  *** Wormnest has quit IRC
22:31:04  *** FLHerne has quit IRC
22:31:11  *** Stimrol has quit IRC
22:36:14  *** Long_yanG has joined #openttd
22:38:50  *** LongyanG has quit IRC
23:08:48  *** Flygon has joined #openttd
23:35:04  *** Hiddenfunstuff has joined #openttd
23:36:16  *** Geth has quit IRC
23:46:30  <Wolf01> 'night
23:46:34  *** Wolf01 has quit IRC

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk