Log for #openttd on 15th September 2017:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:14:57  *** Progman has quit IRC
00:31:07  *** Hiddenfunstuff has quit IRC
01:56:55  *** glx has quit IRC
04:26:39  *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
05:28:16  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
05:45:34  *** Cubey has quit IRC
05:51:00  *** DDR has quit IRC
06:29:38  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
06:43:48  *** DDR has joined #openttd
06:45:23  *** tycoondemon has joined #openttd
06:46:27  <andythenorth> o/
06:55:57  *** Defaultti has quit IRC
06:57:08  *** Defaultti has joined #openttd
07:01:37  *** tycoondemon has quit IRC
07:01:52  *** tycoondemon has joined #openttd
07:16:38  *** blocage has joined #openttd
07:24:00  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
07:40:33  *** Stimrol has joined #openttd
07:41:57  <crem> i/o
07:55:47  <__ln__>
07:58:00  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge
07:59:09  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
08:15:42  *** Progman has joined #openttd
08:24:16  *** twb has joined #openttd
08:26:28  <twb> Hi, I ship OpenTTD to prison inmates.  The built-in package downloader stuff (bananas?) is disabled.  Instead I have a crappy hand-written script to bundle a couple of packages into a Debian package (.deb), which gets installed on all the kiosks.
08:26:43  <twb> Inmates are whinging and asking for more content, so I'm looking at this code again.
08:27:04  <twb> Is there a way to get e.g. package dependencies out of bananas, rather than having to work it out by hand?
08:27:24  <twb> is my crappy script
08:28:15  *** Biolunar has joined #openttd
08:28:20  <twb> (I'm poking around in right now)
08:29:34  <LordAro> that's a rather unusual situation!
08:29:50  <twb> It certainly has some interesting problems to solve :-)
08:30:28  <LordAro> have you thought about just packaging an existing content_download folder? i think ottd should read it from a global /etc/... folder (see readme 4.2)
08:30:59  <twb> It's easier for my version control if this is set up from a script rather than an interactive GUI
08:32:00  <Eddi|zuHause> you could try MUSA, but it's more targeted towards people who want to upload things to bananas rather than download it
08:32:13  <twb> But if you mean that I can just download the .tar.gz and not bother to unpack them, that's useful
08:32:17  <LordAro> i don't believe bananas itself has any form of dependency management, it's all handled by the client
08:32:27  <twb> LordAro: how does the client work out the dependencies?
08:32:33  <Eddi|zuHause> twb: openttd can read .tar files, but not .gz
08:32:36  <twb> LordAro: by trying to execute the scripts?
08:32:50  <twb> Eddi|zuHause: OK, cool.
08:32:57  <LordAro> twb: honestly no idea :p it'll be in the source somewhere
08:33:04  <twb> Yeah :-)
08:33:18  <twb> I think last time I had a quick look at the source and went "this is too hard to understand, I can't be bothered"
08:33:20  <Eddi|zuHause> twb: there is also a (ingame) console interface to bananas, rather than the gui
08:33:49  <LordAro> twb: but, i mean just copying your own (for example) content_download folder
08:33:55  <LordAro> they're fully portable
08:34:04  <twb> I don't actually play opentty myself
08:34:07  <twb> *openttd
08:34:46  <LordAro> or whatever, just an existing ottd install with the content you want installed
08:34:53  <peter1138> Just download it all ;)
08:35:06  <LordAro> or ^
08:35:21  <twb> What's the total size of everything in bananas?
08:35:24  <twb> ballpark I mean
08:35:27  <peter1138> Along with those extra content packs that contain stuff that isn't on there.
08:35:40  <twb> Like is it 100MB or 2GB
08:35:42  <LordAro> tbh, there aren't many things except AIs that have any dependencies at all
08:35:52  <twb> LordAro: OK that's good to know
08:35:55  <Eddi|zuHause> twb: multiple GB probably
08:35:55  <peter1138> Not massive, except for some of V453000's stuff.
08:36:21  <twb> yeah I'm trying to keep the total OS+apps size under about 4GB (before compression)
08:36:42  <twb> squashfs then gets it down to about 1-2GB, faster uploading to kiosks &c
08:37:02  <peter1138>
08:37:08  <twb> But like the midi stuff is nice and small compared to modern games :-)
08:37:18  <peter1138> That is the openttdcoop content pack, it's 22MB.
08:37:33  <peter1138> I don't know what's included these days. It may just be stuff that isn't on Bananas I guess.
08:38:03  <Eddi|zuHause> twb: i think the bananas ingame console interface should work for you, you can put it in a script file that runs on game start, so you can run it from a build script
08:38:46  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: that stuff is probably heavily outdated
08:39:06  <Eddi|zuHause> except maybe the dbset :p
08:39:37  <peter1138> OH yeah, 2010. Duh.
08:39:38  <twb> So newGRF is basically "here's a bundle of content that improves all parts of the TTD experience" ?
08:39:56  <peter1138> Well, changes at least.
08:40:17  <twb> The baseline I'm using is whatever's in Debian
08:40:31  <twb> Which is 1.4.4 currently because I'm still shipping Debian oldstable
08:45:09  <twb> This is the list of crap $boss told me to install
08:46:53  <twb> I'll build a fresh desktop with openttd installed, unblock direct network access (in the lab), then see what the in-app content manager can do
08:47:49  <Eddi|zuHause> <-- take a look at "content select" and "content download" commands
08:48:03  <Eddi|zuHause> they work somewhat like a package manager on linux
08:48:40  <twb> Cool thanks
08:49:59  <twb> How come Queue.BinaryHeap is in both ailibs and gslibs --- does that mean if ai and gs both want to use it, it has to be downloaded twice?
08:50:02  *** Progman has quit IRC
08:51:39  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
08:51:43  <twb> okey dokey
08:52:00  <twb> It's not like it's big enough to matter
08:52:11  <Eddi|zuHause> they probably only differ in a global search and replace for "AI" to "GS"
08:52:26  <Eddi|zuHause> but conceptually, those are separate scripting runtimes
08:53:37  * andythenorth wonders
08:53:44  <andythenorth> my newgrfs have coke and reefers
08:54:13  <Eddi|zuHause> put ice cubes in the coke?`
09:02:23  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
09:07:49  <twb> does bananas just run over HTTP/HTTPS?
09:08:31  <twb> I punched a hole through the firewalls for that, but I might have screwed it up
09:20:10  <Eddi|zuHause> there might be two modes, one over http and one over a custom protocol, but i'm not sure about that
09:20:34  <Eddi|zuHause> @ports
09:20:34  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
09:21:02  <__ln__> i guess back in the old days it was quite common to have prison inmates work with building railways.
09:22:06  <Eddi|zuHause> twb: so tcp port 3978
09:24:32  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
09:26:46  <twb> thanks
09:26:49  <LordAro> __ln__: haha
09:27:26  *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
09:27:29  <twb> __ln__: yep and in USA they are used to make all US military armour, because minimum wage laws do not apply to convicts
09:27:47  <twb> __ln__: same with laws against truck systems / company towns
09:28:04  *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
09:28:35  <twb> that's why they pass laws that keep up to 50% of adult males in some communities in prison at any one time -- slave labour
09:32:53  <Eddi|zuHause> well, there's certainly a reason why the US has more prisoners per capita than any other country in the world
09:33:38  <Eddi|zuHause> and it's not because they have more criminal energy than the rest of the world
09:35:19  *** Flygon has quit IRC
09:36:08  *** Hiddenfunstuff has joined #openttd
09:50:38  *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd
09:50:45  <Wolf01> o/
09:51:26  <crem> \o
09:52:00  <twb> typing one-handed eh
09:55:44  *** gnu_jj has quit IRC
09:56:47  *** gnu_jj has joined #openttd
09:58:39  <twb> Hrmph, I tried opening just 3978/TCP for bananas, and I get "Could not connect to the content server".  time to tcpdump
10:00:20  <twb> Derp.  Typo'd
10:04:16  <twb> Ohhhh, I know what's happening.  Normally FORWARD isn't allowed at all, everything goes through an app proxy
10:04:29  <twb> But since this is going direct, I need to -j MASQUERADE
10:05:43  <peter1138> Not sure why it uses a custom protocol instead of HTTP, but hey.
10:05:43  <twb> works now
10:05:53  <twb> peter1138: just to be annoying :-P
10:06:17  <twb> HTTP wouldn't have worked anyway unless you support speaking HTTPS *to* the proxy, which is only barely supported even in GUI browsers
10:08:08  <twb> Can I connect the ~ console to stdio, rather than accessing it via the little SDL window?
10:09:55  <LordAro> peter1138: all of the hysterical raisins
10:10:40  <twb> Once I've download content through the content manager, do I have to "activate" it somehow?  It looks like for NewGRF, I have to explicitly add/remove it from the "active" list, and I guess other kinds of content have their own ways to load
10:11:09  <LordAro> it's added per game
10:11:18  <LordAro> i'd leave it up to the players to do it themselves
10:11:26  <LordAro> they're not always wanted, after all
10:11:33  <twb> good, that's what I want
10:12:00  <twb> I don't want to like download blade runner graphics and have every inmate see that by default :P
10:13:37  <twb> OK so as a test I downloaded (through the GUI) the Scott Joplin OBM, then did New Game, gear icon, and I can see it in the "Base Music" drop-down
10:13:41  <twb> But it's greyed out
10:13:57  <twb> How do I find out why it's greyed out?
10:15:17  <LordAro> can only change base game settings from the main menu
10:15:20  <LordAro> (confusingly)
10:16:32  <twb> righto
10:18:39  <twb> yaaaay scott joplin
10:20:23  <Eddi|zuHause> basesets (sound/music/graphics), NewGRFs and AIs/GameScripts have each their own setup screens in the main menu
10:23:45  <Wolf01> Bah, my pen is broken... I can't draw short lines
10:24:16  <Eddi|zuHause> draw long lines and cut them down to size?
10:24:35  <Wolf01> A bit difficult in the middle of a drawing
10:25:00  <twb> OK so the content manager makes ~/.local/share/openttd/content_download/ai/library/Queue.FibonacciHeap-3.tar
10:25:01  <Eddi|zuHause> man, this "Kindergarten" game is crazy :p
10:25:27  <twb> Where my old half-arsed stuff has /usr/share/games/openttd/ai/library/Queue.FibonacciHeap.2/library.nut
10:25:42  <Wolf01> Also I don't have anymore a good application which respond to the buttons... can't help
10:25:59  <twb> Although weirdly the Scott Joplin stuff is not in a .tar
10:26:35  <Eddi|zuHause> twb: it doesn't really matter which of the paths is used, and .tar also is irrelevant
10:26:37  <twb> --- does baseset (or maybe just music) have to be untarred to work properly?
10:27:06  <peter1138> Only music sets need to be untarred.
10:27:09  <Eddi|zuHause> music might be special
10:27:13  <twb> OK
10:28:18  <Wolf01> Bah, I should just trash this graphic tablet
10:34:37  *** Montana has joined #openttd
10:35:10  <Wolf01> Which free software could I use to sketch with the graphic tablet? Not gimp
10:36:05  <crem> krita ?
10:37:36  <twb> Hrm, so I studied to see how to "scrape" the content data without bothering to start up an X display and openttd and everything
10:37:55  <twb> gnutls-cli --crlf -p 3980
10:39:01  <Wolf01> I think I'll just go with Ink... if I find a way to enable it in this pc
10:41:24  *** D-HUND has joined #openttd
10:42:03  <Wolf01> Ok, Ink is perfect
10:43:05  <twb> Blergh it's past my bedtime and working out the HTTP-like wire protocol based on send_data() in is making me sleepy
10:43:56  <twb>
10:45:37  *** debdog has quit IRC
10:50:49  <twb> OK this at least gets a response from the server:
10:51:15  <twb> Now to read network_content.cpp to work out how that's asking for a package listing
10:52:14  <twb> OO hurts my FP brain
11:39:23  <Wolf01> I think today I'll minecraft all the rest of the spare time... like 5 hours...
11:39:56  <__ln__> anyone been to:
11:42:46  <Wolf01> Is the one near the mythical Berlin mountain?
11:44:13  <twb> OK I'm definitely *definitely* going to bed now
11:44:18  <twb> thanks everybody for your help
12:04:42  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: the only "mountains" in berlin are piles of rubble from WWII
12:05:10  <Wolf01> Nah, the other mountain
12:05:28  <Eddi|zuHause> then i don't know what you mean
12:05:35  <Wolf01> Tempelhof
12:06:08  <Eddi|zuHause> Tempelhof closed in the mid 1990s
12:06:55  <Eddi|zuHause> Tempelhof was in west berlin, BER is near Schönefeld, which is just outside berlin
12:06:56  <__ln__> or early 2000s?
12:07:02  <Wolf01> Yes, they built a mountain there
12:08:17  <Eddi|zuHause> they did quite a number of things in the Tempelhof area, like art installations, refugee camps, festivals, housing projects
12:08:28  <__ln__>
12:08:40  <__ln__> but that certainly wasn't built in reality
12:10:35  <Eddi|zuHause> ok, i definitely haven't heard about that one before
12:11:27  <Wolf01> So the ticket I purchased for a trip there was a scam :(
12:11:33  *** Montana has quit IRC
12:12:45  <__ln__> how suspicious is it that Wolf01 complains about a mountain scam, and mr. Montaña immediately quits?
12:13:05  <Wolf01> XD
12:17:58  *** Flygon has joined #openttd
12:21:10  *** Geth has joined #openttd
12:21:19  *** Flygon_ has quit IRC
12:24:01  *** blocage has quit IRC
12:25:12  *** blocage has joined #openttd
12:26:05  *** Biolunar has quit IRC
12:27:11  *** Hiddenfunstuff has quit IRC
12:45:14  *** Jomann has joined #openttd
12:59:41  *** twb has quit IRC
13:13:55  *** tokai has quit IRC
13:19:39  *** tokai has joined #openttd
13:19:39  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
13:20:00  *** gelignite has joined #openttd
13:20:20  <supermop> up all night with jet lag, trying to think of some way a game could be both cute and fun, and have rivet-counting shunting or pointwork etc
13:20:37  <supermop> well first was trying to think of some kind of cute tram or metro game
13:22:34  <supermop> but tram and metro systems are simple in a way that they are impossible to make a game out of unless make maddeningly complex
13:28:49  <crem> Anyone from Arstotzka? Have a visa question!
13:29:27  <__ln__> from what?
13:30:53  <crem> Impor.
13:34:24  *** Alberth has joined #openttd
13:34:24  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
13:34:51  <Alberth> o/
13:36:04  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: everybody knows that the most important thing is the name!
13:49:07  <supermop> maybe something where you collect trams
13:50:50  <supermop> but unless it's stupidly complex, all you'd see is your tram going back and forth
13:52:45  <Wolf01> Mmmh, ublock origin blocks my bookmarks with
13:54:00  *** sim-al2 has quit IRC
13:54:22  <supermop> idk i guess neko atsume but with trams?
13:54:30  <supermop> or metro trains
13:56:51  <andythenorth> supermop: played Mini Metro? o_O
13:57:00  <andythenorth> lo Alberth
13:58:06  <supermop> andythenorth: i was an early backer
13:58:19  <andythenorth> :)
13:58:25  <supermop> but thats sort of what i am saying, its way too simple
13:58:40  <supermop> and instead of a cute tram, its a rectangle
13:58:58  <supermop> im thinking something that has crossovers, platforms, pointwork
13:59:08  <supermop> but not a whole network
13:59:27  <supermop> like a chibi shunting puzzle, but for passenger operations
13:59:44  <supermop> so basically tram atsume
13:59:50  <supermop> "ding sing"
13:59:54  <supermop> *ding
14:01:42  <supermop> like your terminus has stupid pointwork, so all your trams pile up and get delayed and get angry with you
14:01:51  <supermop> maybe it is tram tamagochi
14:01:54  <andythenorth> yeah Mini Metro isn’t a train game
14:01:55  <supermop> tramagochi
14:01:59  <andythenorth> just a shape matching game
14:03:20  <supermop> feed tram more amps of 600V DC
14:04:25  <supermop> or it could be like denshya de D
14:07:02  <supermop> drawn any more large logoish  ponies?
14:12:51  *** TrueBrain_ has quit IRC
14:13:23  *** TrueBrain_ has joined #openttd
14:17:08  *** stefino has joined #openttd
14:17:22  <stefino> Hi I have a question about vehicle length. Maximum length is 8 but we are making more realistic sets and need longer "boxes" for our vehicles. We solved it with invisible parts what are articulated ahead of the vehicle and behind the vehicle. It work correcly but the problem is at bridges.As you can see in the picture. Main graphics is loaded at the middle box (front and rear boxes are not displayed) and if vehicle goes throw the bridge,
14:17:47  <stefino> eground sprite. This all will be OK if the game will provide longer boxes than 8. Is it possible to make these boxes with maximum length 16? It will be really helpfull for us and provide better ingame graphics result that current flashing graphics on the bridges and another tiles where the game uses foreground/background tiles.
14:18:02  <stefino> Thanks for the answer :)
14:18:17  <stefino>
14:19:35  <Eddi|zuHause> stefino: unfortunately, it's not as easy to enlarge the boxes, because larger boxes means there are more cases where the sprite order cannot be resolved properly, causing more glitches elsewhere
14:20:17  <Eddi|zuHause> also, that link fails
14:21:33  <stefino> it is only picture with this bug
14:21:37  <stefino>
14:22:33  <Eddi|zuHause> stefino: my approach to that is to also cut down the sprite, showing 1/3 in the first "invisible" vehicle, 1/3 in the middle, and 1/3 in the last "invisible" vehicle
14:22:47  <Eddi|zuHause> only in curves you must show the vehicle as one sprite
14:22:49  *** Flygon has quit IRC
14:23:02  *** TheMask96 has quit IRC
14:23:13  <Eddi|zuHause> and on slopes
14:23:57  <Eddi|zuHause> it is pretty tricky though
14:24:05  <Eddi|zuHause> and does not fix all cases
14:25:20  * andythenorth is doing chibi vehicles instead
14:25:27  <andythenorth> max 8/8, or visibly articulated for longer
14:25:30  <andythenorth> constraints are good
14:26:20  <stefino> yes I was thinking about that but enlarge the boxes will be much easier than this. But I have no idea how difficult is it.  But as you rote that it has some another problems - you tried it before?
14:26:21  <andythenorth> so this is interesting:
14:26:50  <andythenorth> if I un-archive that .xz I get a .cpgz
14:27:00  <andythenorth> and unarchiving that gives a .xz
14:27:03  <Eddi|zuHause> stefino: i did even worse things :p
14:27:06  <andythenorth> rinse, repeat
14:27:44  *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd
14:29:33  <stefino> interesting but totaly incomprehensible to me :D I'm happy if I succesfuly code new trains/buildings and another things into the game
14:29:56  <andythenorth> make shorter trains :)
14:30:33  <stefino> this is our problem. because we like realistic  graphics and short trains are not realistic :) :/
14:31:15  <andythenorth> is problem yes :)
14:31:25  <andythenorth> tried MS Train Simulator? o_O
14:32:32  <stefino> and trains are more handicaped with this graphics lag than cars cause they are longer. you are quite right :P we are using 3D models from these simulaors :D :P
14:36:04  <andythenorth> I had trains up to 10/8 long in Iron Horse 1
14:36:08  <stefino> in the worst case we have to satisfy with flashing graphics but it is a shame
14:36:12  <andythenorth> but for v2, I’m reducing them all to 8/8
14:36:45  <stefino> yes but you make 8bpp or not?
14:36:52  <andythenorth> 8bpp
14:37:28  <stefino> yes..8bpp is more accessible than extrazoom in 32bpp
14:38:16  <stefino> if you take realistic wagon and make it shorter for 8/8 , it looks realy crazy
14:39:21  <stefino> we make length deformation too but not so big as OTTD wants
14:40:15  *** Hiddenfunstuff has joined #openttd
14:40:31  <Eddi|zuHause> stefino:
14:42:06  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: it is a nice effect :)
14:42:08  <stefino> it looks interesting - more Z axis rotations than 8?
14:42:41  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, and all abusing some newgrf variables, not changing the actual game internals
14:43:23  <Eddi|zuHause> basically, you check how the 3 part vehicles are positioned (all straight, first one turned 45° others straight, etc.)
14:44:57  <stefino> yes yes I understand :) nice idea
14:46:11  *** Geth has quit IRC
14:46:45  <stefino> you are switching active graphics between these 3 boxes what makes a wagon
14:47:53  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, if they are all straight, each vehicle shows a slice of the whole vehicle, and if any turns/height changes are present, the center vehicle shows the whole sprite, the others invisible
14:49:38  <stefino> is this graphics on dev zone?
14:49:44  *** Geth has joined #openttd
14:51:53  <Eddi|zuHause> small excerpt from the core logic:
14:53:20  <Eddi|zuHause> stefino: i posted a link earlier where you can download it
14:54:26  *** Hiddenfunstuff has quit IRC
14:55:21  <stefino> I'm trying to understand the code :D
14:56:43  <Eddi|zuHause> ok, first thing you should probably know is how var 62 works:
14:57:04  <Eddi|zuHause> unfortunately, nml does not have the ability to work with varibables that take parameters properly
14:57:20  <Eddi|zuHause> so it has to be done via "var[]"
14:58:30  <stefino> okay okay
14:59:33  <Eddi|zuHause> SLICE will be 0 for the center vehicle, -1 for the front vehicle, and +1 for the back vehicle
14:59:48  <Eddi|zuHause> i think
14:59:50  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure anymore
15:00:47  <Eddi|zuHause> so lets take apart the first switch formula:
15:01:03  <Eddi|zuHause> ((var[0x62, 24, 0x000000FF, -1 - (SLICE)] - var[0x62, 24, 0x000000FF, -0 - (SLICE)]) & 0xFF) << 8
15:01:05  <Eddi|zuHause>  | ((var[0x62, 24, 0x000000FF, -0 - (SLICE)] - var[0x62, 24, 0x000000FF, 1 - (SLICE)]) & 0xFF))
15:01:19  <Eddi|zuHause> the first part checks the height difference between the front and the middle part
15:01:28  <stefino> yes
15:01:30  <Eddi|zuHause> and the second part checks the height difference between middle and back part
15:01:54  <Eddi|zuHause> if both are 0, you branch to the spriteset that shows the sliced vehicles
15:02:14  <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise you show the full sprite for the middle part (SLICE == 0) and invisible sprite for the other parts
15:03:00  <stefino> aaah...yes
15:03:06  <stefino> inderstood
15:03:23  <stefino> u*
15:04:16  <Eddi|zuHause> the second switch works in a similar way, just it extracts the direction part instead of the height part from var62
15:04:20  *** ToBeFree has joined #openttd
15:06:13  <Eddi|zuHause> if all changes are 0 you go to the height switch, because the vehicle is straight
15:06:38  <stefino> yes
15:06:39  <Eddi|zuHause> if one of the changes is "1" or "F" (turn right or left, i forgot which way around) you show one of the various angles
15:06:56  <Eddi|zuHause> and the last line in that is some fallback for weird combinations
15:07:22  <Eddi|zuHause> again, if SLICE is not 0, you show invisible sprites instead
15:08:21  <stefino> ok this looks "easy" now
15:08:23  <Eddi|zuHause> and the last switch checks whether the sprite you're resolving currently is in the world (viewport) or some gui (like train list, purchase window, etc.)
15:08:42  <Eddi|zuHause> because you don't want any of this angle magic in the gui
15:08:44  *** ToBeFree has quit IRC
15:10:37  <stefino> okay. and in the hight case the wagon changed graphics too? rotate in y axis?
15:10:49  <Eddi|zuHause> currently not, but it would be possible
15:11:24  <Eddi|zuHause> the options inside the switch would look more like in the second switch in that case
15:11:49  <Eddi|zuHause> after the "if SLICE == 0" line
15:14:22  <stefino> um...interesting . and one more question  - i can't imagine the groups in second switch. I understad how it works but you have there 4 sprite groups. and one spritegroup is 1 possition of wagon. but there are more possitions than 4 or not? if you have asymetric vehicle
15:17:28  <Eddi|zuHause> well, each group has the 8 positions, like usual, for asymmetric vehicles
15:20:00  <stefino> ahh ok
15:20:06  <Eddi|zuHause> my sprite files look like this:
15:20:19  <Eddi|zuHause> and each of the sprite group cuts some different sections out of this file
15:20:22  <Eddi|zuHause> some overlapping
15:20:25  <Eddi|zuHause> some identical
15:20:31  <Eddi|zuHause> some with different offset
15:21:13  <Eddi|zuHause> figuring out these offsets is actually the tricky part
15:21:35  <Eddi|zuHause> because they're different for different vehicle lengths, directions, etc.
15:22:35  <Eddi|zuHause> for each of the angles, you take every 3rd of those blue sprite areas
15:23:23  <stefino> yes yes :) this sprite says everything :)
15:23:54  <stefino> so thanks a lot for explenation:)
15:25:57  <Eddi|zuHause> aaaanyway... i think xkcd got it wrong, a lid at a knife fight might work out quite well, actually... you can use it as a shield and work on disarming the other person
15:26:46  <Eddi|zuHause> with guns it's trickier, depends on how close you can get to the other person before he's ready to shoot
15:27:28  <Wolf01> Too bad that slicing won't work with 32bpp :(
15:28:02  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: why?
15:28:40  <Wolf01> Ok, you can do some antialiasing to mask the slicing points
15:28:52  <Wolf01> But the grf size will explode
15:28:59  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: this exact same code works with 32bpp sprites
15:29:07  <Wolf01> No, not the code
15:29:12  <Wolf01> The graphics
15:29:21  <peter1138> Why would it be any different for 32bpp than 8bpp?
15:29:42  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, the exact code already works with 32bpp sprites
15:30:03  <Wolf01> Oh, you have to draw the full wagon anyway, didn't see that last image
15:30:11  <Eddi|zuHause> fun fact: on the screen it doesn't look any different if you slice it up and put it back together
15:30:14  <Wolf01> I thought it composed it
15:32:32  <supermop> i would only use this method for rendered sprites
15:32:58  <supermop> would be too painful to draw all those angles
15:33:15  <supermop> i already get frustrated with the 8 views
15:33:36  <Eddi|zuHause> afair oberhümer put the focus on the 8 main views, and made the angles by some simple transformation tools
15:33:48  <Eddi|zuHause> on the grounds that they're probably not on the screen for very long
15:46:33  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, rendered sprites really only shine for extra zoom, they might look terrible in normal zoom
15:52:07  *** mindlesstux has quit IRC
15:52:09  <peter1138> When do we switch to a proper 3D engine :D
15:52:22  *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd
15:56:05  <andythenorth> when we have XML for mods
15:56:42  <peter1138> ini files
16:01:06  *** Cubey has joined #openttd
16:06:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm too far out of the buzzword game to come up with something witty here
16:06:48  <Eddi|zuHause> VR?
16:06:50  <Eddi|zuHause> AR?
16:11:45  <Wolf01> AR OTTD would be cool, trains running on my desk
16:11:57  <Wolf01> From the biscuit mine to my mouth
16:12:31  <supermop> Wolf01: thats what i need with my tramagochi
16:12:37  <andythenorth> AR OpenTTD probably works
16:12:40  <andythenorth> trains on the desk
16:12:47  *** stefino has quit IRC
16:14:23  <supermop> i guess i could use cnc router to inlay small brass channels into a desktop at 9mm spacing
16:14:31  <supermop> to make a tramway
16:14:59  <Wolf01> Just buy a kato unirail
16:15:06  <supermop> might keep electrocuting myself on it though
16:15:52  <Sacro>
16:19:42  <Wolf01> WAT
16:21:28  <Sacro> Dunno if it's allowed to be in there or not
16:21:57  <Wolf01> Just report it
16:22:22  <Sacro> Yeah but on what grounds?
16:22:30  <Wolf01> Scam
16:22:35  <Sacro> But it isn't
16:22:38  <Sacro> Is it?
16:22:49  <Sacro> It's got some extra xml and p7x files, pri files
16:22:59  <Sacro> I guess there's a possible GPL claim on those
16:23:22  <__ln__> however, GPL violation is not a 'scam' really
16:23:34  <Sacro> No
16:23:57  <__ln__> also, GPL doesn't forbid selling stuff for money.
16:24:21  <__ln__> and i assume OpenTTD is not a registered trademark
16:24:32  <Wolf01> Ok, then I could sell OTTD too
16:24:37  <__ln__> yes, you could.
16:24:39  <andythenorth> it’s in forums
16:24:43  <andythenorth> already
16:25:47  <andythenorth> it’s a GPL violation
16:26:00  <andythenorth> no offer to provide source
16:26:25  <__ln__> did you buy it and check that there is no offer?
16:26:31  <andythenorth> good point
16:26:32  <andythenorth> no
16:26:39  <andythenorth> someone buy it? o_O
16:26:45  <Sacro> I downloaded the trial
16:27:14  <andythenorth> is the binary accompanied by a written offer to distribute source?
16:27:43  <Sacro> comes with the COPYING file
16:27:46  <Sacro> If you know where to find it
16:28:00  <andythenorth> “probably fine”?
16:29:28  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think the GPL has something about not needing a "written offer" for digital distribution, instead you must offer the source from the same place
16:29:31  <Wolf01> Then just purchase a dev license for windows store ( lifetime iirc) and put OTTD there for free
16:29:57  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: probably in the GPL FAQs somewhere :P
16:33:17  *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
16:36:02  *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
16:42:27  <andythenorth> quak quak
16:42:33  <Wolf01> Quak
16:48:29  <frosch123> andythenorth: someone already checked it
16:48:33  <frosch123> and hoi :)
16:55:16  * andythenorth such wagon length headaches :D
16:58:33  <frosch123> make a platform length patch to make the size of tiles configurable
16:58:37  <frosch123> can't be worse than daylength
16:58:40  <andythenorth> ha
16:58:49  <andythenorth> I should just make all the engines consistent lengths
16:58:56  <andythenorth> 8/8 is obvious
16:59:40  <andythenorth> :P
16:59:44  <frosch123> V went for 16/8
17:00:08  <andythenorth> I made it hard with steam engines at 6/8, 8/8, 10/8, 12/8
17:00:23  <andythenorth> makes for a lot of pax + mail cars in buy menu
17:01:18  <andythenorth> 3 generations of 4/8, 6/8, 8/8 pax and mail coaches
17:01:37  <andythenorth> 18 is a lot :P
17:01:41  *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
17:04:12  *** glx has joined #openttd
17:04:12  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx
17:09:02  *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
17:11:30  *** Celestar has quit IRC
17:17:31  <V453000> sup huminz
17:18:19  <Wolf01> Waiting for FFF
17:18:28  <V453000> haha me too
17:19:44  <andythenorth> V453000: how long should trains be?
17:20:33  <V453000> units of 8/8 obviously :P
17:20:46  <Wolf01> More than 5 wagons said someone back in time
17:20:51  <V453000> can articulate stuff with smaller bits though
17:20:59  <V453000> oh like that
17:21:28  <V453000> well I consider 5 tile trains to be the golden standard, giant network people often prefer 3 tile trains
17:25:05  <andythenorth> 8/8 is problem for realism :P
17:25:37  <V453000> why?
17:26:19  <andythenorth> people built their RL trains wrong
17:26:22  <andythenorth> not considering my needs
17:26:32  <V453000> wtf?
17:26:45  <frosch123> V453000: andy wants engines with different lengths, but is obsessed with whole trains being whole tiles
17:26:51  <andythenorth> RL is rude
17:26:56  <andythenorth> I won this for trams
17:27:04  <andythenorth> but trams can’t be recombined arbitrarily :P
17:27:26  <V453000> andythenorth: have articulated 1-units trains? XD force configurations
17:27:31  <andythenorth> ha
17:27:37  <andythenorth> big buy menu :P
17:27:40  <andythenorth> such problems
17:27:41  <andythenorth> biab
17:27:44  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
17:29:44  <V453000> hmmm
17:38:17  <V453000> yeah nevermind it's totes dumb idea :D
17:54:46  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
17:55:19  <andythenorth> @seen simyoulater
17:55:19  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: simyoulater was last seen in #openttd 4 days, 23 hours, 43 minutes, and 31 seconds ago: <SimYouLater> I only have had time to change my important passwords.
17:57:15  <frosch123> funny quote :)
17:58:16  <frosch123> andythenorth: do you use autoreplace?
17:58:43  <andythenorth> yes
17:58:54  <andythenorth> autoreplace makes the coach problem much harder :P
17:59:00  <V453000> XD
17:59:22  <frosch123> so, if you built a train to full tile length with your 18 item purchase list, and replace the engine, it is wrong again?
17:59:23  <andythenorth> no mixed-cargo articulated consists
17:59:29  <andythenorth> yes
17:59:32  <andythenorth> it’s wrong again
17:59:44  <andythenorth> that is one of my problems, trying to work out a length schema
17:59:51  <frosch123> how about elongating the engines in the front with empty space *if* they are the first engine in the consist?
17:59:57  <supermop> integer tile trains and nice lengths for steam trains dont go together
18:00:00  <andythenorth> I need it to magically autoreplace to integer lengths, is brainfuck
18:00:05  <V453000> wtf are you doing andythenorth ?
18:00:16  <andythenorth> trains should be unit-tile lengths
18:00:16  <supermop> time to put dream to bed?
18:00:22  <supermop> meh
18:00:23  <V453000> just add tender when in doubt supermop :P
18:00:23  <andythenorth> nope
18:00:38  <supermop> nice to have, not need to have
18:00:38  <andythenorth> I can’t use the decimal lengths
18:00:44  <andythenorth> they’re lies
18:00:47  <andythenorth> and we can’t fix maths
18:00:49  <andythenorth> so eh
18:00:50  <supermop> use base 12 lengths
18:01:27  <frosch123> i guess when we change the vehicle movement for extra zoom, we should make it 60 substeps per tile :)
18:01:31  <andythenorth> I think consist templates might be needed
18:01:37  <andythenorth> just a small thing :P
18:01:46  <andythenorth> but eh, that’s the only missing feature in OpenTTD anyway
18:02:12  <supermop> refit wagons to different lengths
18:02:21  <V453000> new project or IH?
18:02:32  <supermop> he's redoing ih
18:02:37  <frosch123> also, how much will 8bpp people complain if we draw engines with anti-aliasing at non-integer pixel positions?
18:02:38  <V453000> oh god
18:02:45  <V453000> y u no new set if redoing :D
18:02:51  <V453000> is what I intend with nus
18:03:05  <V453000> it has issues, sure, but reworking it all isn't beneficial
18:03:20  <andythenorth> says V453000 :)
18:03:54  <andythenorth> frosch123: can you draw them sharply on my retina screen? o_O
18:04:04  <andythenorth> I have sub-pixel drawing capability :P
18:04:07  <V453000> well I don't know how much rework you have in mind
18:04:17  <andythenorth> total
18:04:24  <andythenorth> is shit
18:04:40  <V453000> antialiasing? wot
18:05:07  <V453000> andythenorth: hm, what are issues?
18:05:25  <andythenorth> is crap
18:05:27  <frosch123> andythenorth: will people complani if wagons sometimes have 2 or 3 pixel gaps between them?
18:05:30  <andythenorth> yes
18:05:37  <andythenorth> V453000: train lengths have no scheme
18:05:46  <andythenorth> and is bollocks
18:05:57  <andythenorth> train is 1.7 long, add 0.4 wagon, it’s 2.0
18:06:01  <andythenorth> such rounding crap
18:06:02  <V453000> what scheme do you imagine to get?
18:06:09  <V453000> oh, well ... told you :)
18:06:10  <andythenorth> 4/8 and 8/8 mostly
18:06:18  <V453000> you will always get that shit with wtf lengths
18:06:21  <andythenorth> yes
18:06:24  <andythenorth> delete lengths
18:07:49  <andythenorth> all winning
18:07:58  <andythenorth> except some things need to be 6/8 to look good
18:07:59  <andythenorth> or 10/8
18:08:01  <andythenorth> or 12/8
18:08:18  <V453000> 'need to' is just an excuse
18:08:19  <V453000> sorry :P
18:08:38  <frosch123> @calc 6/16*60
18:08:38  <DorpsGek> frosch123: 22.5
18:08:51  <andythenorth> V453000: make argument for solution?
18:08:57  <frosch123> @calc 5.5/16*60
18:08:57  <DorpsGek> frosch123: 20.625
18:09:09  <frosch123> @calc 5.75/16*60
18:09:09  <DorpsGek> frosch123: 21.5625
18:09:16  <andythenorth> if engines don’t get longer, wtf?  Player needs ‘bigger’ to feel progression
18:09:22  <V453000> I believe you can always add length by more details or whatnot, or subtract by chibbializing
18:09:55  <V453000> NUTS solves that by having the engine getting shorter in the front
18:10:00  <V453000> so they tile correctly to wagons
18:10:08  <V453000> of course in multiengine setups this doesn't work as great
18:10:31  <V453000> in next train set I want to have consist-aware trains so they merge if they are multiple after one another
18:11:17  <V453000> ... it is getting shorter just visually, logically maintaining 8/8
18:13:11  <V453000> oh I am also obliged to tell you that I hate FIRS3 because suddenly many cargoes are unknown to NUTS and don't have unique graphics :D
18:13:17  <V453000> I win now
18:14:30  <andythenorth> nah, I win by making you hate
18:14:37  <andythenorth> you need to draw PIPE
18:14:40  <V453000> dam
18:14:50  <andythenorth> SULP is easy
18:14:52  <V453000> eh no
18:14:52  <andythenorth> just yellow
18:15:15  <andythenorth>
18:16:11  <V453000> without ability to define more custom signals (one of the fancy FS tasks you asked me about), I think PIPE is not a great concept. signals are necessary to make any train system work otherwise it's just dumb imo
18:16:22  <V453000> and making signals for it right now would be a pain esp in diagonals
18:16:34  <V453000> but eh
18:16:40  <andythenorth> nah, I mean PIPE cargo
18:16:44  <andythenorth> not PIPE grf
18:16:51  <V453000> I wouldn't do anything about it regardless :P
18:16:55  <V453000> ooooooo
18:16:56  <V453000> ooooo
18:16:59  <V453000> sorry
18:17:19  <andythenorth> here is realism for you to copy
18:17:23  <V453000> vehicle parts, vehicles, pipes, and there was some more
18:17:26  <V453000> well I need to draw a bunch
18:17:45  <V453000> well I won't draw it for nuts probably :P
18:18:38  <andythenorth> well I am done adding to FIRS for a bit
18:18:43  <andythenorth> no v4 planned anytime soon
18:18:48  <andythenorth> next thing I have to do
18:18:57  <andythenorth> is fix the wall of shame that is Extreme economy
18:19:06  <andythenorth> don’t want to do that
18:19:10  <V453000> well I didn't even properly play v2 and now there is v3
18:19:12  <V453000> soooo yeah
18:19:19  <V453000> haha
18:19:26  * andythenorth doesn’t want to die leaving Extreme in current form
18:19:30  <andythenorth> unfinished business
18:19:56  <V453000> kind of out of the loop so I can't talk much about details in FIRS, steeltown seemed interesting but I kind of lost focus after I connected ES
18:20:14  <andythenorth> same here
18:20:18  <V453000> everything was max production before 1910 and I started in 1900
18:20:27  <andythenorth> I got 25 years out of it
18:20:40  <V453000> so I didn't feel incentivized to do more things
18:20:58  <andythenorth> I think iz fine
18:21:10  <V453000> it's perfectly fine
18:21:12  <andythenorth> it’s ‘connect all the chains once’ kind of gameplay
18:21:16  <andythenorth> then start a new map
18:21:23  <andythenorth> problem with Extreme
18:21:26  <V453000> it's a problem that you can spot everywhere in firs
18:21:34  <andythenorth> I designed it originally to try keeping game going
18:21:37  <andythenorth> with 'moar'
18:21:40  <andythenorth> but ‘moar’ is boring
18:21:53  <V453000> if I was to fix it somehow, I would make many more levels of production so that the high ones aren't that trivial to reach
18:22:06  <V453000> well moar can be less :P
18:22:21  <andythenorth> I considered ‘level up’ mechanic for supplies
18:22:23  <V453000> as in, have current gung-ho about the max, just have many more intermediate steps
18:22:31  <supermop> this is cute:
18:22:33  <supermop>
18:22:39  <andythenorth> like once per year, if supplied enough, an increase
18:22:43  <andythenorth> by 25% or so
18:22:56  <andythenorth> gung-ho is kind of daft
18:23:34  <V453000> it is ridiculously easy to achieve
18:26:38  <andythenorth> well it’s designed specifically for NoCarGoal or Silicon Valley :)
18:26:44  <andythenorth> owing to…reasons :P
18:26:55  <V453000> ._.
18:26:58  <andythenorth> isn’t it
18:27:04  <V453000> is
18:27:21  <andythenorth> this is the kind of FIRS-is-shit I am ok with :)
18:27:28  <andythenorth> at least I know why and how
18:27:46  <V453000> interesting approach :P
18:27:51  <andythenorth> v4: better production
18:28:02  <V453000> =D
18:31:54  *** Progman has joined #openttd
18:36:08  <andythenorth> so how will templated consists be done then?
18:36:19  <andythenorth> can we just do autoreplace with arithmetic?
18:36:31  <andythenorth> ‘for wagon foo, add 2 wagons bar'
18:36:54  <andythenorth> ‘for 2 wagon red, add one wagon blue’
18:40:31  <supermop> just save consists the way one makes groups?
18:41:19  <supermop> then in replace be able to select saved consists as if they they were vehicles
18:41:35  <supermop> like the now replacing engine/wagons
18:41:42  <supermop> add /consists?
18:42:32  <supermop> so a consist may or may not be added behind some other vehicle i guess
18:46:20  <andythenorth> template consists means virtual trains and crap
18:46:26  <andythenorth> and newgrf shenanigans
18:46:34  <andythenorth> not sure anyone will ever achieve it
18:46:50  <andythenorth> wondering if ‘complicated replace rules’ is better
18:49:10  <Alberth> if you can script it, you basically have consists, except in script form rather than as already built (virtual) train
18:49:17  <frosch123> andythenorth: there are two patches for it
18:49:29  <andythenorth> I guess I have to try them :|
18:49:50  * andythenorth doesn’t understand how it can be done with newgrfs
18:50:01  <andythenorth> the virtual train won’t exist, so it won’t have a railtype
18:50:25  <andythenorth> newgrfs that make extensive use of cb36 are going to break]
18:50:37  <andythenorth> we’ll get another 30 FS asking for special variables in templates
18:50:57  <andythenorth> also the virtual train won’t have a lifetime or build date
18:50:59  <andythenorth> so same issues
18:52:31  <frosch123> the things you listed are dead easy to solve
18:52:47  <frosch123> date is just current date
18:52:50  <andythenorth> this is why andythenorth is not a programmer :|
18:52:59  <frosch123> it's most fitting because that's what other trains will be replaced with
18:53:45  <frosch123> just build a depot on tile 0 and stop trains in it
18:54:05  <frosch123> trains never age there, are always new
19:05:40  <andythenorth> :)
19:07:18  <andythenorth> Wolf01 :P
19:07:35  <andythenorth> did you mean ‘this is why we got stuck and NRT isn’t in trunk’ or so?
19:17:03  *** Alberth has left #openttd
19:24:22  <V453000> can't seem to decide if I really want to make my next train set in pixel pushing or 3D pushing
19:24:45  <V453000> but I guess I can always return to nuts pixel pushing if I really wanted to do the former
19:24:51  <V453000> the fact that I don't already speaks for itself
19:25:06  <andythenorth> you’ll just get pissed off with them
19:25:15  <V453000> and ifn o aand if no EZ then grf not new enough
19:25:38  <V453000> duh
19:25:52  <V453000> and if no EZ then grf not new enough
19:25:56  <V453000> iz what I meant
19:26:09  <V453000> am on macbook, not used to this
19:26:53  <V453000> and pixel pushing x4 sprites sounds pretty fucked up
19:28:06  <andythenorth> such keys
19:28:27  <andythenorth> type them in any order
19:29:17  <V453000> that's basically what I am doing, writing down a grf design document
19:29:21  <V453000> such serious
19:29:31  <V453000> that piece of trash has been laying around my disks for too long
19:32:59  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
19:33:06  <andythenorth> hmm
19:34:12  *** behindTheWheel has joined #openttd
19:34:17  <andythenorth> err
19:34:30  <behindTheWheel> hi all
19:34:35  * andythenorth might have found a way to have just 7 pax and mail cars
19:34:40  <andythenorth> including two classes of pax :P
19:35:08  <behindTheWheel> want to start play opentdd (played n years ago) should I start single game or connect to some server is ok ?
19:35:34  <andythenorth> either :)
19:36:09  <behindTheWheel> dont want to spoil online game being a noob
19:41:31  <frosch123> different servers have different rules
19:41:52  <frosch123> there is no general rule except "dont be a dick"
19:43:06  <andythenorth> supermop: finished it
19:43:37  <supermop> looks british
19:44:22  <supermop> andythenorth: you could reduce generations of passenger cars
19:44:45  <supermop> have a mk3 that you can keep buying forever
19:44:48  <andythenorth> :)
19:45:19  <andythenorth> kind of the conclusion I’ve got to
19:47:27  <andythenorth> what shall I call that engine?
19:47:38  <andythenorth> ‘shredder’ isn’t right :P
19:54:36  <supermop> yorkie
19:54:58  <andythenorth> ha
19:56:57  <supermop> name after some moor
19:57:14  <supermop> marston moor?
19:57:23  <supermop> some oter civil war battle?
19:58:46  <andythenorth> controversial :)
19:58:49  <andythenorth> cavalier?
19:58:52  <andythenorth> roundhead?
19:58:55  <andythenorth> tudor?
19:59:01  <andythenorth> white rose
20:01:36  <supermop> roundhead sounds train-y
20:01:44  <supermop> tudor could work
20:01:48  <supermop> white rose idk
20:02:04  <supermop> weren't there a cromwell loco irl?
20:02:27  <supermop> whats the name of the keep in York?
20:02:51  <supermop> idk just call it doncaster
20:02:59  <supermop> that's plenty train-y
20:13:42  <Wolf01>  <andythenorth> did you mean ‘this is why we got stuck and NRT isn’t in trunk’ or so? <- yeah, my english sometimes is too much italian
20:14:00  <andythenorth> :)
20:14:13  <andythenorth> meanwhile this
20:14:16  <andythenorth> peter1138: ^
20:22:41  *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd
20:30:24  <Arveen> that one sound very nice
20:33:07  <peter1138> nice
20:33:29  <peter1138> er
20:33:30  <peter1138> well
20:33:37  <peter1138> Sounds good until the "vocal" comes on.
20:33:43  *** ToBeFree has joined #openttd
20:41:32  <andythenorth> turn it up louder
20:41:38  <andythenorth> :P
20:42:16  <Wolf01> andythenorth: better now?
20:42:38  <andythenorth> :D
20:43:46  <Wolf01> BTW, I'm totally fine if they want to merge the current NRT in their patchpacks, but I warn them that they will end up with some incompatible thing in future
20:44:07  <andythenorth> and newgrfs that need updated
20:44:16  <andythenorth> [shrug] :)
20:45:05  <Wolf01> Even the current unspooled etc probably will be useless in future with BGT
20:46:21  *** zeta has quit IRC
20:47:40  *** zeta has joined #openttd
20:50:50  *** zeta has quit IRC
20:52:56  <supermop> bgt?
20:57:37  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
20:57:56  <Wolf01> Short for NRTBGT
20:58:11  <Wolf01> Which is NotRoadTypesButGroundTypes
20:58:21  *** blocage has quit IRC
20:59:12  <Wolf01> So, in future you will have just to change the ground for the pavement of the tramway, not define 6 tramways with the same specs
20:59:28  <supermop> i still dont get what the point of a ground type is, and what it has to do with roads
21:02:38  <supermop> hmm i am too bored i think i should go home
21:03:00  <Wolf01> So you can go home when you get bored?
21:03:53  <Wolf01> supermop: BTW if you want to get into the discussion
21:06:03  <supermop> Wolf01: i will probably be bored there too
21:06:24  <supermop> but it is 17:00 on friday and no one else is in the office
21:09:26  *** gelignite has quit IRC
21:09:48  <supermop> still think towns should build more than just road
21:10:05  <Wolf01> That's a different problem
21:10:45  <supermop> otherwise ROAD must be something that makes sense from year 0
21:10:59  <supermop> but that might look stupid in year 3000
21:12:22  <supermop> brb
21:13:46  <Wolf01> The problem might be the auto-upgrade of the roads, towns should build dirt/cobble roads, then with the ages they should upgrade to asphalt/concrete
21:16:20  <andythenorth> switch graphics by date :P
21:16:32  *** smoke_fumus has joined #openttd
21:16:48  <Wolf01> Eh... not so simple
21:17:03  <Wolf01> 1. MakeWholeMapDirty()
21:17:28  *** smoke_fumus has quit IRC
21:17:29  <Wolf01> 2. You should switch the roadtype, because you might want different road properties
21:27:22  *** behindTheWheel has quit IRC
21:56:54  <andythenorth> is bed
21:56:54  *** andythenorth has left #openttd
22:02:06  *** Wormnest has quit IRC
22:05:02  *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
22:05:02  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
22:12:01  *** tokai has quit IRC
22:32:56  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: automatic road upgrade should be in the town growth algorithm, probably
22:33:39  <Wolf01> Not really growth, but a parallel one
22:33:59  <Wolf01> And it should call roadworks, just to be evil :>
22:34:03  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: in each growth cycle, town has chance (1 in X) to upgrade the town center tile. and whenever the town growth algorithm goes from an upgraded road tile to an unupgraded one, it has chance (1 in X) to upgrade that tile
22:34:45  <Eddi|zuHause> that way, you slowly upgrade the roads from the town center outwards
22:35:00  <Eddi|zuHause> and you have a chance to tweak X
22:35:45  <Eddi|zuHause> and road repair could also trigger an upgrade
22:42:18  *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC
23:02:50  *** Stimrol has quit IRC
23:24:23  <Wolf01> Sleepflix time
23:32:51  *** Progman has quit IRC
23:32:55  *** ToBeFree has quit IRC
23:35:03  *** supermop_home has joined #openttd
23:35:58  <supermop_home> is transport fever worth getting?
23:37:00  <Wolf01> Yes, and no, depends on your expectations
23:37:17  <supermop_home> can I use it to collect trams?
23:37:36  <Wolf01> There are some trams yes
23:37:48  <supermop_home> can I add more trams?
23:37:51  <Wolf01> Yes
23:37:58  <supermop_home> and do i need steam to play it?
23:38:14  <Wolf01> Mmmh, I think there is a non-steam version
23:38:19  <Wolf01> Maybe on GoG
23:39:14  <Wolf01> BTW[]=Tram
23:42:21  <supermop_home> no Japanese trams
23:42:49  <supermop_home> "kiha58 is the Japanese diesel multiple unit"
23:42:58  <supermop_home> hopefully not the only one?
23:44:26  <Wolf01> Try their forum, if you know german...
23:49:29  *** blocage has joined #openttd
23:49:34  <Eddi|zuHause> they're from switzerland, they know almost all languages :p
23:50:14  <Wolf01> The problem is when you don't know the other languages :P
23:50:32  <supermop_home> how do you guys use this game?
23:50:49  <Wolf01> I run it and play :D
23:51:09  <supermop_home> is it practical to play around with pointwork/junctions, like a complex model railroad?
23:51:33  <supermop_home> or is it more like a prettier game with a different idea for cargo dist
23:51:37  <Wolf01> It improved greatly since the release, now it's playable
23:52:28  <Wolf01> I mostly do point to point, because industries follow the common market rules of demand and offer
23:52:32  <Eddi|zuHause> complex junctions were always a bit fiddly, but i haven't played with the latest changes
23:53:49  <Eddi|zuHause> but it was definitely a huge step up from train fever
23:54:45  <Wolf01> Cdist is also well done, transfer happen automagically and most things are automated wrt OTTD
23:55:56  <Wolf01> They removed the ability to connect stations like it's on OTTD and train fever, but doing so a station can transfer to any other different station in the catchement area
23:56:46  *** Geth has quit IRC
23:57:25  <Wolf01> And since the last update you can see through tunnel entrances :D

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk