Log for #openttd on 27th September 2017:
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05:55:36  <andythenorth> o/
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06:24:25  <crem> \o
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08:52:20  <andythenorth> integer lengths
08:52:26  <andythenorth> as long as the integer is 5 :P
08:52:53  <andythenorth> or 2
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09:42:04  <V453000> I started making detailed power/speed/TE tables :D shit's nuts
09:43:44  <V453000> andy's got into another vehicle length mess? :P
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11:38:02  <Wolf01> o/
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12:50:28  <__ln__> Wolf01:
12:51:03  <Wolf01> Nice
12:51:46  <Flygon> Wait.
12:51:52  <Flygon> The UK use to have Beavers? O_O
12:53:08  <Wolf01> Yes, we have them too
12:53:17  <Flygon> Woah.
12:53:40  <Flygon> (Still waiting for Tassie Devils to make a sudden resurgence >_>)
12:53:46  <Flygon> (Er, Tassie Tigers)
12:54:08  <__ln__> freudian slip?
12:54:19  <Flygon> Huh?
12:54:30  <Flygon> "Conservation groups are campaigning for wolves to be reintroduced to Britain, along with brown bears and lynx.  Beavers have already been successfully reestablished in some parts of the country."
12:54:38  <Wolf01> But I think they intend nutrias and not really the american beavers
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13:53:26  <supermop_> pretty sure UK never had nutrias
13:54:02  <supermop_> Wolf01: did you move to outside rome?
13:54:35  <Wolf01> Oh, there are enough wolves in the alps too
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14:18:54  <andythenorth> horse
14:19:16  <V453000> train 6 wagons are fucking awesome
14:19:40  <andythenorth> they’re just Hog trucks on train wheels
14:19:42  <andythenorth> but yes
14:19:51  <V453000> doesn't matter :)
14:19:52  <Wolf01> Yeah
14:20:11  <andythenorth> currently every generation is getting ‘short’ and ‘long’
14:20:14  <andythenorth> it might be great
14:20:18  <andythenorth> or it might be total shit
14:20:21  <andythenorth> not sure yet
14:20:25  <Wolf01> The grey hoppers look a bit strange
14:22:26  <andythenorth> such realism
14:22:59  <andythenorth>
14:23:52  <andythenorth> these would be good
14:24:02  <andythenorth> or even these :P
14:29:06  * andythenorth is confused
14:29:14  <andythenorth> assuming ‘short’ and ‘long’ doesn’t suck
14:29:31  <andythenorth> it it just about making integer lengths, so both versions should look very similar?
14:29:42  <andythenorth> or is it about variety of graphics, so should be different?
14:29:52  * andythenorth puzzled
15:04:29  <supermop_> similar but different
15:04:43  <supermop_> should be identifiable as being related, but distinct
15:05:13  <supermop_> finally drew some 1870s-1910s trams last night
15:10:24  <andythenorth> hmm
15:10:39  <andythenorth> so if the gestalt is different, that’s a different wagon class
15:10:54  <andythenorth> the length thing is just a detail about making trains of integer length
15:11:00  <supermop_> can't decide if roof should be dark or light, if steam boilers should be visible, when/if sides should should get enclosed
15:11:25  <andythenorth> screenshot? o_O
15:12:44  <supermop_> at 4x?
15:12:46  <andythenorth> :P
15:18:26  <Wolf01> Wow a new patch for TF
15:18:41  <Wolf01> "The patch aims to make your player's life easier by introducing several usability enhancements."
15:19:00  <Wolf01> "Thanks to new fully-functional scroll bars, handling user interface components such as the line manager will be much easier" :D :D :D
15:19:24  <andythenorth> scroll bars :)
15:19:51  <Wolf01> Ok, only bugfixes, scalable UI, and the scrollbars
15:31:27  <supermop_> andythenorth: 4x neighest neighbor
15:31:29  <supermop_>
15:32:26  <supermop_> same with light roof:
15:34:06  <supermop_> top to bottom: 4/8 open side tram, 3/8 open sided tram, 4/8 enclosed side tram (end platforms open), 5/8 enclosed side tram, 4/8 with windsheild, 5/8 with windsheild
15:36:21  <supermop_> currently, electric trams are open sided 4 and enclosed 5
15:36:31  <supermop_> steam are open 3 and enclosed 4
15:36:42  <andythenorth> dark roof / light roof is potato / potato
15:36:56  <supermop_> electric with trailer is open 4+3
15:37:30  <supermop_> might transition from dark to light based on build year
15:38:09  <supermop_> will probably have a switch to switch from open to closed, and open end to windshield based on build year
15:41:18  <supermop_> light dark doesn't make sense as progression of technology
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15:41:34  <supermop_> idk what looks better
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15:49:57  <supermop_> This leave generation 'D' - pointy 70s trams, and generation 'G' - sleek near future trams as the only left to be drawn
15:50:47  <supermop_> although 'C' - late 40s through early 60s  still needs work as currently i think they are the most blase looking
15:50:57  <supermop_> just look like cans or pills
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15:57:51  <andythenorth> hmm
15:57:52  <andythenorth> brain ache
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15:59:14  <andythenorth> too many variables
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16:07:10  <supermop_> "C" generation:
16:07:30  <supermop_>
16:08:03  <supermop_> needs doors, better 2cc livery, maybe a non cc roof
16:08:25  <andythenorth> characterful
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16:22:28  <supermop_> i assume you are being facetious
16:22:51  <supermop_> this guy is probably the worst offendor with noise
16:23:08  <supermop_> but its got just so much expanse of sheet metal
16:23:28  <supermop_> 2cc window band might help,
16:29:02  <andythenorth> nah, genuinely has character, wasn’t being facetious
16:29:06  <andythenorth> less noise though
16:30:15  <supermop_> next is drawing a style based on this:
16:31:04  <supermop_> general euro style tapered PCC derivative
16:32:17  <supermop_> actually might not need it if i can get the noise cans to look better
16:34:10  <supermop_> drawing the taper in / and \ is going to be a pain
16:34:25  <supermop_> so might just avoid it
16:35:12  <Eddi|zuHause> these things always look weird to me... trams of that size would have 3 doors around here
16:36:22  <Eddi|zuHause> something like this:,_June_1993.jpg
16:39:03  <supermop_> Eddi|zuHause: the follow-on orders in that class had 3 doors
16:39:42  <supermop_> the lead order did not and was seen as something of a failure
16:40:44  <supermop_> by the time i lived in melbourne, only like 20 Z1s were still running, and those only because ridership was growing faster than old trams could be replaced
16:41:31  * andythenorth has schema problems
16:42:47  <andythenorth> short and long versions of every wagon is stupid
16:43:04  * Wolf01 => pub
16:43:14  <supermop_> i only have 2 trams mapped out for 60s-70s tapered style
16:43:21  <andythenorth> short and long works for the totall generic types (box, open, flat)
16:43:24  <supermop_> maybe not worth drawing
16:43:27  <andythenorth> and for tankers, where there is no alternative type
16:43:34  <andythenorth> all other types…one length would be better
16:43:36  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you should finally consider dropping the integer length requirement that nobody ever asked for? :p
16:44:02  <andythenorth> nah, I want to win that game
16:44:05  <andythenorth> it’s personal
16:44:15  <andythenorth> also, I asked for it :P
16:44:50  <andythenorth> I am deliberately choosing hard mode, with some 6/8 engines and wagons
16:46:55  * andythenorth considers ‘Coal Car’, ‘Ore Car’, “Aggregate Car’ etc
16:47:52  <andythenorth> and one length per each
16:47:57  <andythenorth> seems less arbitrary
16:51:18  <andythenorth> but eh
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17:02:30  <andythenorth> what does a ‘Coal Car’ refit to then?
17:04:11  <peter1138> Coal.
17:06:16  <andythenorth> isn’t it
17:06:23  <andythenorth> clue in the name?
17:08:28  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: need a new cargo property: density
17:08:49  <andythenorth> can be faked with capacity on cb36 :P
17:09:15  <Eddi|zuHause> but you need the coal car for density <X and the ore car for density >X
17:09:26  <Eddi|zuHause> and whatever aggregate is...
17:09:46  <andythenorth> it’s an option
17:10:21  <Eddi|zuHause> and "fake with CB36" is not an option for future unknown cargos
17:10:46  <peter1138> Sand and gravel, etc.
17:14:55  <Eddi|zuHause> did we ever introduce the "powderized" cargo class?
17:15:03  <andythenorth> somewhat yes
17:29:32  <andythenorth>
17:30:24  <andythenorth> randomised vehicle lengths when building? o_O
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17:45:43  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27921 trunk/src/lang/polish.txt (2017-09-27 19:45:38 +0200 )
17:45:44  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
17:45:45  <DorpsGek> polish: 22 changes by McZapkie
17:50:58  <andythenorth> more unrealism?
17:51:03  <andythenorth> less UK-style?
17:51:06  * andythenorth thinking
17:52:29  <andythenorth> hmm
18:15:14  <andythenorth> what is goal here?
18:15:34  <andythenorth> two goals seem to conflict
18:15:47  <andythenorth> 1) distinctive wagons per cargo type
18:16:01  <andythenorth> 2) not too many wagons
18:28:44  <andythenorth> wagon recolouring? o_O
18:30:49  <supermop_> Eddi|zuHause: have often been a little bothered by the density issue
18:31:59  <supermop_> mostly for hoppers i guess, but i guess it would be an issue for boxcars too
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18:57:02  <andythenorth> bah
18:57:14  <andythenorth> on the one hand, easy buy menu
18:57:27  <andythenorth> on the other, ore trains and coal trains delivering to steel mill look different
18:57:36  <andythenorth> stone train and sand train from quarry look different
18:58:23  <andythenorth> which is more desirable?
18:59:12  <supermop_> rake of lots of short ore cars is kind of visually satisfying
18:59:16  <supermop_> but idk
18:59:58  <andythenorth> cars are mostly going to be 4/8 or 8/8, for integer reasons :P
19:00:22  <andythenorth> I already have tank cars that recolour per cargo
19:00:31  <andythenorth> so that would be a valid option for other types
19:00:38  <andythenorth> dunno
19:01:38  <andythenorth> if I add more types, I’ll have to retcon Hog to match :P
19:01:46  <andythenorth> I think simplicity wins out
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19:12:18  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: how does the density play out in-game then? o_O
19:12:22  * andythenorth seeking ideas
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19:24:18  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so, in the "simple" case, every wagon has a weight cap and a volume cap, and total capacity is the first one that is met
19:25:02  <Eddi|zuHause> so you could fill a coal wagon with ore, but it would only be "half full" (by volume) because weight cap is met first
19:25:52  <Eddi|zuHause> then it would make sense to use the (shorter?) ore wagon instead, because you get more weight per train length
19:26:15  <andythenorth> it’s rational
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20:43:43  <andythenorth> quak
20:43:45  <andythenorth> late for frogs
20:45:04  <frosch123> hoi
20:46:01  <V453000> oy
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21:03:03  <andythenorth> 4/8
21:03:05  <andythenorth> winning length
21:03:47  <frosch123> ah, i was really worried last week when you said the length thing was settled :)
21:04:11  <andythenorth> I thought so
21:04:33  <andythenorth> I have managed to combine it with 2 other conflicting goals
21:04:36  <andythenorth> so all is well
21:13:49  <andythenorth> really the problem is, how many kinds of hopper cars
21:14:26  <andythenorth> frosch123 critique?
21:14:41  <andythenorth> various length madness, various type madness
21:15:53  <frosch123> the first flatbed one, is that one or two short wagons?
21:16:35  <frosch123> it's weird in the depot gui, the stakes have the same colour as the window :)
21:16:36  <andythenorth> first wagon is one 8/8
21:16:44  <andythenorth> yeah, it needs redrawn
21:17:05  <andythenorth> I added ‘coal cars’ (all the grey ones)
21:17:09  <frosch123> the floor seems to be one pixel lower than for the other ones
21:17:19  <andythenorth> old sprite, yes
21:17:44  <frosch123> too shiny for coal, looks like grain
21:18:29  <andythenorth> fair
21:18:30  <frosch123> needs more rust
21:18:37  <andythenorth> I’m 90% going to just delete them
21:18:53  <andythenorth> not convinced ‘coal car’ makes sense
21:19:03  <frosch123> well, they are not CC, which is a good thing :)
21:19:03  <andythenorth> then a generic car for 25 other bulk cargos :P
21:19:06  <andythenorth> yes
21:19:14  <andythenorth> but I could recolour wagons on refit
21:19:20  <andythenorth> tank cars do that
21:20:05  <andythenorth> too much magic?
21:20:48  <frosch123> i like the red thing at the front of the steam engine
21:20:56  <frosch123> no idea what it is, but it makes it look unique
21:21:07  <andythenorth> buffer thing
21:21:28  <andythenorth> dunno whether to pursue more cargo-specific cars
21:21:35  <andythenorth> already got ‘fruit’ and ‘wood'
21:21:47  <frosch123> do you have non-level flat beds?
21:21:59  <andythenorth> got supply cars
21:22:03  <andythenorth> with a well
21:22:28  <frosch123>
21:22:30  <andythenorth>
21:23:11  <frosch123> <- also works with stakes
21:23:21  <andythenorth> does
21:24:09  <andythenorth> so could do ‘coal car’, ‘sand car’, ‘iron ore car’ etc
21:24:28  <andythenorth> but seems like FIRS çargos will always outstrip that :P
21:24:32  <frosch123> do sand cars polish themself?
21:24:49  <andythenorth> as they travel, yes
21:24:51  <andythenorth> very shiny
21:31:29  <andythenorth> also bed
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