Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:07:14 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 00:56:23 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 01:26:07 *** Arveen has quit IRC 01:28:57 *** glx has quit IRC 02:23:55 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 02:27:14 *** ToBeFree has joined #openttd 02:38:48 *** Arveen has joined #openttd 04:01:04 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 04:13:13 *** cHawk has quit IRC 04:33:14 *** Cubey has quit IRC 04:36:42 *** ToBeFree has quit IRC 05:35:44 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 05:53:53 *** Warrigal has quit IRC 05:55:36 <andythenorth> o/ 05:57:29 *** Warrigal has joined #openttd 06:24:25 <crem> \o 06:25:58 *** Breckett has joined #openttd 06:45:48 *** Breckett has quit IRC 06:54:12 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 06:55:22 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 07:03:49 *** Breckett has joined #openttd 07:05:24 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 07:25:43 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:04:15 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 08:10:34 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:28:40 *** debdog has quit IRC 08:52:20 <andythenorth> integer lengths 08:52:26 <andythenorth> as long as the integer is 5 :P 08:52:53 <andythenorth> or 2 09:27:38 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd 09:28:44 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 09:41:09 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 09:42:04 <V453000> I started making detailed power/speed/TE tables :D shit's nuts 09:43:44 <V453000> andy's got into another vehicle length mess? :P 09:46:40 *** JacobD88 has quit IRC 09:46:58 *** Breckett_ has joined #openttd 09:53:53 *** Breckett has quit IRC 10:16:56 *** Breckett_ has quit IRC 11:24:25 *** Breckett has joined #openttd 11:37:53 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 11:38:02 <Wolf01> o/ 11:40:51 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 12:33:16 *** Breckett has quit IRC 12:50:28 <__ln__> Wolf01: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/25/wolves-discovered-living-just-outside-rome-first-time-century/ 12:51:03 <Wolf01> Nice 12:51:46 <Flygon> Wait. 12:51:52 <Flygon> The UK use to have Beavers? O_O 12:53:08 <Wolf01> Yes, we have them too 12:53:17 <Flygon> Woah. 12:53:40 <Flygon> (Still waiting for Tassie Devils to make a sudden resurgence >_>) 12:53:46 <Flygon> (Er, Tassie Tigers) 12:54:08 <__ln__> freudian slip? 12:54:19 <Flygon> Huh? 12:54:30 <Flygon> "Conservation groups are campaigning for wolves to be reintroduced to Britain, along with brown bears and lynx. Beavers have already been successfully reestablished in some parts of the country." 12:54:38 <Wolf01> But I think they intend nutrias and not really the american beavers 13:43:42 *** Flygon has quit IRC 13:49:55 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 13:53:26 <supermop_> pretty sure UK never had nutrias 13:54:02 <supermop_> Wolf01: did you move to outside rome? 13:54:35 <Wolf01> Oh, there are enough wolves in the alps too 13:59:03 *** ricus has joined #openttd 14:18:48 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 14:18:54 <andythenorth> horse http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8642/horse_such.png 14:19:16 <V453000> train 6 wagons are fucking awesome 14:19:40 <andythenorth> they’re just Hog trucks on train wheels 14:19:42 <andythenorth> but yes 14:19:51 <V453000> doesn't matter :) 14:19:52 <Wolf01> Yeah 14:20:11 <andythenorth> currently every generation is getting ‘short’ and ‘long’ 14:20:14 <andythenorth> it might be great 14:20:18 <andythenorth> or it might be total shit 14:20:21 <andythenorth> not sure yet 14:20:25 <Wolf01> The grey hoppers look a bit strange 14:22:26 <andythenorth> such realism 14:22:59 <andythenorth> https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5585/15179570802_7819652463_z.jpg 14:23:52 <andythenorth> these would be good http://www.emgauge70s.co.uk/wibdenshaw_hop21-05.jpg 14:24:02 <andythenorth> or even these :P https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/Hopper_wagons_on_Talyllyn_Railway_-_2009-01-01.jpg 14:29:06 * andythenorth is confused 14:29:14 <andythenorth> assuming ‘short’ and ‘long’ doesn’t suck 14:29:31 <andythenorth> it it just about making integer lengths, so both versions should look very similar? 14:29:42 <andythenorth> or is it about variety of graphics, so should be different? 14:29:52 * andythenorth puzzled 15:04:29 <supermop_> similar but different 15:04:43 <supermop_> should be identifiable as being related, but distinct 15:05:13 <supermop_> finally drew some 1870s-1910s trams last night 15:10:24 <andythenorth> hmm 15:10:39 <andythenorth> so if the gestalt is different, that’s a different wagon class 15:10:54 <andythenorth> the length thing is just a detail about making trains of integer length 15:11:00 <supermop_> can't decide if roof should be dark or light, if steam boilers should be visible, when/if sides should should get enclosed 15:11:25 <andythenorth> screenshot? o_O 15:12:44 <supermop_> at 4x? 15:12:46 <andythenorth> :P 15:18:26 <Wolf01> Wow a new patch for TF 15:18:41 <Wolf01> "The patch aims to make your player's life easier by introducing several usability enhancements." 15:19:00 <Wolf01> "Thanks to new fully-functional scroll bars, handling user interface components such as the line manager will be much easier" :D :D :D 15:19:24 <andythenorth> scroll bars :) 15:19:51 <Wolf01> Ok, only bugfixes, scalable UI, and the scrollbars 15:31:27 <supermop_> andythenorth: 4x neighest neighbor 15:31:29 <supermop_> https://imgur.com/a/Yxfsp 15:32:26 <supermop_> same with light roof: https://imgur.com/a/N894L 15:34:06 <supermop_> top to bottom: 4/8 open side tram, 3/8 open sided tram, 4/8 enclosed side tram (end platforms open), 5/8 enclosed side tram, 4/8 with windsheild, 5/8 with windsheild 15:36:21 <supermop_> currently, electric trams are open sided 4 and enclosed 5 15:36:31 <supermop_> steam are open 3 and enclosed 4 15:36:42 <andythenorth> dark roof / light roof is potato / potato 15:36:56 <supermop_> electric with trailer is open 4+3 15:37:30 <supermop_> might transition from dark to light based on build year 15:38:09 <supermop_> will probably have a switch to switch from open to closed, and open end to windshield based on build year 15:41:18 <supermop_> light dark doesn't make sense as progression of technology 15:41:25 *** Breckett has joined #openttd 15:41:34 <supermop_> idk what looks better 15:48:24 *** Breckett_ has joined #openttd 15:49:57 <supermop_> This leave generation 'D' - pointy 70s trams, and generation 'G' - sleek near future trams as the only left to be drawn 15:50:47 <supermop_> although 'C' - late 40s through early 60s still needs work as currently i think they are the most blase looking 15:50:57 <supermop_> just look like cans or pills 15:51:48 *** Breckett has quit IRC 15:53:33 *** TheMask96 has quit IRC 15:57:51 <andythenorth> hmm 15:57:52 <andythenorth> brain ache 15:57:57 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd 15:58:27 *** Progman has joined #openttd 15:59:14 <andythenorth> too many variables 16:01:53 *** Breckett_ has quit IRC 16:07:10 <supermop_> "C" generation: 16:07:30 <supermop_> https://imgur.com/a/Ia2lh 16:08:03 <supermop_> needs doors, better 2cc livery, maybe a non cc roof 16:08:25 <andythenorth> characterful 16:11:56 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 16:22:28 <supermop_> i assume you are being facetious 16:22:51 <supermop_> this guy is probably the worst offendor with noise 16:23:08 <supermop_> but its got just so much expanse of sheet metal 16:23:28 <supermop_> 2cc window band might help, 16:29:02 <andythenorth> nah, genuinely has character, wasn’t being facetious 16:29:06 <andythenorth> less noise though 16:30:15 <supermop_> next is drawing a style based on this: http://www.theage.com.au/content/dam/images/g/o/4/o/7/h/image.related.articleLeadwide.620x349.go4n4c.png/1460570356378.jpg 16:31:04 <supermop_> general euro style tapered PCC derivative 16:32:17 <supermop_> actually might not need it if i can get the noise cans to look better 16:34:10 <supermop_> drawing the taper in / and \ is going to be a pain 16:34:25 <supermop_> so might just avoid it 16:35:12 <Eddi|zuHause> these things always look weird to me... trams of that size would have 3 doors around here 16:36:22 <Eddi|zuHause> something like this: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Leipzig_Tatra_T4D_pair,_June_1993.jpg 16:39:03 <supermop_> Eddi|zuHause: the follow-on orders in that class had 3 doors 16:39:42 <supermop_> the lead order did not and was seen as something of a failure 16:40:44 <supermop_> by the time i lived in melbourne, only like 20 Z1s were still running, and those only because ridership was growing faster than old trams could be replaced 16:41:31 * andythenorth has schema problems 16:42:47 <andythenorth> short and long versions of every wagon is stupid 16:43:04 * Wolf01 => pub 16:43:14 <supermop_> i only have 2 trams mapped out for 60s-70s tapered style 16:43:21 <andythenorth> short and long works for the totall generic types (box, open, flat) 16:43:24 <supermop_> maybe not worth drawing 16:43:27 <andythenorth> and for tankers, where there is no alternative type 16:43:34 <andythenorth> all other types…one length would be better 16:43:36 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you should finally consider dropping the integer length requirement that nobody ever asked for? :p 16:44:02 <andythenorth> nah, I want to win that game 16:44:05 <andythenorth> it’s personal 16:44:15 <andythenorth> also, I asked for it :P 16:44:50 <andythenorth> I am deliberately choosing hard mode, with some 6/8 engines and wagons 16:46:55 * andythenorth considers ‘Coal Car’, ‘Ore Car’, “Aggregate Car’ etc 16:47:52 <andythenorth> and one length per each 16:47:57 <andythenorth> seems less arbitrary 16:51:18 <andythenorth> but eh 16:52:31 *** glx has joined #openttd 16:52:31 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 16:55:16 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 17:02:30 <andythenorth> what does a ‘Coal Car’ refit to then? 17:04:11 <peter1138> Coal. 17:06:16 <andythenorth> isn’t it 17:06:23 <andythenorth> clue in the name? 17:08:28 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: need a new cargo property: density 17:08:49 <andythenorth> can be faked with capacity on cb36 :P 17:09:15 <Eddi|zuHause> but you need the coal car for density <X and the ore car for density >X 17:09:26 <Eddi|zuHause> and whatever aggregate is... 17:09:46 <andythenorth> it’s an option 17:10:21 <Eddi|zuHause> and "fake with CB36" is not an option for future unknown cargos 17:10:46 <peter1138> Sand and gravel, etc. 17:14:55 <Eddi|zuHause> did we ever introduce the "powderized" cargo class? 17:15:03 <andythenorth> somewhat yes 17:29:32 <andythenorth> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Cargos#CargoClasses_.2816.29 17:30:24 <andythenorth> randomised vehicle lengths when building? o_O 17:34:28 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 17:45:43 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27921 trunk/src/lang/polish.txt (2017-09-27 19:45:38 +0200 ) 17:45:44 <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints: 17:45:45 <DorpsGek> polish: 22 changes by McZapkie 17:50:58 <andythenorth> more unrealism? 17:51:03 <andythenorth> less UK-style? 17:51:06 * andythenorth thinking 17:52:29 <andythenorth> hmm 18:15:14 <andythenorth> what is goal here? 18:15:34 <andythenorth> two goals seem to conflict 18:15:47 <andythenorth> 1) distinctive wagons per cargo type 18:16:01 <andythenorth> 2) not too many wagons 18:28:44 <andythenorth> wagon recolouring? o_O 18:30:49 <supermop_> Eddi|zuHause: have often been a little bothered by the density issue 18:31:59 <supermop_> mostly for hoppers i guess, but i guess it would be an issue for boxcars too 18:46:22 *** Cubey has joined #openttd 18:57:02 <andythenorth> bah 18:57:14 <andythenorth> on the one hand, easy buy menu 18:57:27 <andythenorth> on the other, ore trains and coal trains delivering to steel mill look different 18:57:36 <andythenorth> stone train and sand train from quarry look different 18:58:23 <andythenorth> which is more desirable? 18:59:12 <supermop_> rake of lots of short ore cars is kind of visually satisfying 18:59:16 <supermop_> but idk 18:59:58 <andythenorth> cars are mostly going to be 4/8 or 8/8, for integer reasons :P 19:00:22 <andythenorth> I already have tank cars that recolour per cargo 19:00:31 <andythenorth> so that would be a valid option for other types 19:00:38 <andythenorth> dunno 19:01:38 <andythenorth> if I add more types, I’ll have to retcon Hog to match :P 19:01:46 <andythenorth> I think simplicity wins out 19:04:17 *** Ttech has quit IRC 19:12:18 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: how does the density play out in-game then? o_O 19:12:22 * andythenorth seeking ideas 19:13:58 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 19:15:21 *** glx_ has joined #openttd 19:15:22 *** glx is now known as Guest5524 19:15:22 *** glx_ is now known as glx 19:16:33 *** Ttech has joined #openttd 19:22:28 *** Guest5524 has quit IRC 19:24:18 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so, in the "simple" case, every wagon has a weight cap and a volume cap, and total capacity is the first one that is met 19:25:02 <Eddi|zuHause> so you could fill a coal wagon with ore, but it would only be "half full" (by volume) because weight cap is met first 19:25:52 <Eddi|zuHause> then it would make sense to use the (shorter?) ore wagon instead, because you get more weight per train length 19:26:15 <andythenorth> it’s rational 19:35:12 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 20:00:20 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 20:21:30 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 20:29:57 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 20:36:02 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 20:43:43 <andythenorth> quak 20:43:45 <andythenorth> late for frogs 20:45:04 <frosch123> hoi 20:46:01 <V453000> oy 21:01:58 *** gelignite has quit IRC 21:03:03 <andythenorth> 4/8 21:03:05 <andythenorth> winning length 21:03:47 <frosch123> ah, i was really worried last week when you said the length thing was settled :) 21:04:11 <andythenorth> I thought so 21:04:33 <andythenorth> I have managed to combine it with 2 other conflicting goals 21:04:36 <andythenorth> so all is well 21:13:49 <andythenorth> really the problem is, how many kinds of hopper cars 21:14:26 <andythenorth> frosch123 critique? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8642/horse_such.png 21:14:41 <andythenorth> various length madness, various type madness 21:15:53 <frosch123> the first flatbed one, is that one or two short wagons? 21:16:35 <frosch123> it's weird in the depot gui, the stakes have the same colour as the window :) 21:16:36 <andythenorth> first wagon is one 8/8 21:16:44 <andythenorth> yeah, it needs redrawn 21:17:05 <andythenorth> I added ‘coal cars’ (all the grey ones) 21:17:09 <frosch123> the floor seems to be one pixel lower than for the other ones 21:17:19 <andythenorth> old sprite, yes 21:17:44 <frosch123> too shiny for coal, looks like grain 21:18:29 <andythenorth> fair 21:18:30 <frosch123> needs more rust 21:18:37 <andythenorth> I’m 90% going to just delete them 21:18:53 <andythenorth> not convinced ‘coal car’ makes sense 21:19:03 <frosch123> well, they are not CC, which is a good thing :) 21:19:03 <andythenorth> then a generic car for 25 other bulk cargos :P 21:19:06 <andythenorth> yes 21:19:14 <andythenorth> but I could recolour wagons on refit 21:19:20 <andythenorth> tank cars do that 21:20:05 <andythenorth> too much magic? 21:20:48 <frosch123> i like the red thing at the front of the steam engine 21:20:56 <frosch123> no idea what it is, but it makes it look unique 21:21:07 <andythenorth> buffer thing 21:21:28 <andythenorth> dunno whether to pursue more cargo-specific cars 21:21:35 <andythenorth> already got ‘fruit’ and ‘wood' 21:21:47 <frosch123> do you have non-level flat beds? 21:21:59 <andythenorth> got supply cars 21:22:03 <andythenorth> with a well 21:22:28 <frosch123> https://img.webme.com/pic/m/modelle-und-mehr/DSCF3254.JPG 21:22:30 <andythenorth> https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7188/6865549817_886cebd561_b.jpg 21:23:11 <frosch123> http://www.eurospoor.nl/media/2423/5218.jpg <- also works with stakes 21:23:21 <andythenorth> does 21:24:09 <andythenorth> so could do ‘coal car’, ‘sand car’, ‘iron ore car’ etc 21:24:28 <andythenorth> but seems like FIRS çargos will always outstrip that :P 21:24:32 <frosch123> do sand cars polish themself? 21:24:49 <andythenorth> as they travel, yes 21:24:51 <andythenorth> very shiny 21:31:29 <andythenorth> also bed 21:31:35 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 21:40:36 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:47:21 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 22:12:02 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 22:13:05 *** Progman has quit IRC 23:31:04 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 23:49:52 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 23:49:53 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 23:56:53 *** tokai has quit IRC