Log for #openttd on 7th October 2017:
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07:09:32  <andythenorth> o/
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08:28:54  <andythenorth> iz
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08:46:33  <TrueBrain> zi
08:52:15  <andythenorth> such brains
08:52:15  <andythenorth> true
08:54:28  <V453000> yo
08:54:52  <V453000> success in photoshop was, but after effects still managed to fuck it up along the way before the sprites are shat :D
08:54:57  <V453000> migrating even more into photoshop now
08:55:01  <V453000> redoing all them things
08:55:11  <V453000> progress must not be stopped
08:55:48  <andythenorth> automate V453000
08:58:10  <V453000> not an option at this point
08:58:24  <V453000> this is just all about making it final with the control of photoshop over every pixel easily
08:58:31  <V453000> complex masking is a pain in the ass with vector masks
08:58:48  <V453000> I learned my lesson not to attempt to use them ever again for complicated shit
08:58:55  <V453000> and tunnels are really complicated shit
09:02:03  <V453000> it's going to be great, now I am on the right path finally
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09:04:03  <V453000> thing is, it's still 2D sprites. Last step should always be photoshop
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09:20:16  <Wolf01> o/
09:26:45  <Wolf01> I should buy a new router, 9 classes of QoS rules aren't enough :(
09:26:57  <Wolf01> I think I'll buy a firewall
09:29:32  <__ln__> can you even buy a router that isn't also a firewall?
09:29:53  <Wolf01> The firewall part on routers is usually limited
09:30:24  <Wolf01> Even the NAT on my router allows just 10 services
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09:36:53  <peter1138> Depends if it's a shit router or not.
09:37:22  <peter1138> Also why do you need so much QoS.
09:38:14  <Wolf01> Limit bandwidth used by every device to allow at least a 15% to be used by others
09:40:03  <peter1138> So you have 6.666 devices?
09:40:59  <Wolf01> No, 2 classes for every device, Up/Down have a different class and they are shared
09:42:29  <Wolf01> I have 5 devices: 10 classes, max 9
09:46:46  <Wolf01> I grouped the wifi devices using the mask to save 3 classes to be used for specific services device-independent like VOIP (2 classes), I now have 1 class left
09:49:51  <__ln__> does your shitty router support flashing OpenWRT on it?
09:50:09  <Wolf01> No, also I don't think there's openwrt with adsl module
09:50:35  <__ln__> hmm, keep adsl and router as separate devices and you'll have more choice
09:51:05  <Wolf01> Eh that's why I want to buy a firewall
09:52:02  <__ln__> i have and it's pretty nice
09:53:16  <Wolf01> I considered ubiquity
09:57:02  <__ln__> in many ways it's a professional product, but in the price range that a consumer would pay
10:01:02  <Wolf01> I have a linksys WRT54G, but it's just for the living room, the entire network relies on the adsl modem router
10:03:23  <Wolf01> Clearly the WRT54G has dd-wrt installed because I needed it to split the wifi, I considered to install openwrt but the configuration of the split was a bit tricky, and I don't want to touch something which works fine
10:04:16  <Wolf01> But if I'll move all the network stuff to the living room I could use that as main gateway
10:04:23  <__ln__> is it a WRT54GL?
10:04:52  <__ln__> well, probably if you installed dd-wrt on it.
10:07:53  <Wolf01> The only problem I have is that if I disable the dhcp server on the adsl router the WRT54G doesn't supply the dhcp to the lan, only to wifi
10:08:07  <__ln__> unfortunately any modern version of OpenWRT doesn't fit into WRT54GL's rom.
10:09:04  <Wolf01> Yes, I read the warnings, and it already has 84% of memory full with dd-wrt
10:09:26  <Wolf01> 16MB aren't really much :P
10:11:08  <Wolf01> Also I remember I had to stick to an exact version of dd-wrt because others have huge problems with the WRT54G/GL/GS devices
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10:27:59  <peter1138> Gonna get myself a couple of wAP ACs I think.
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10:29:31  <Wolf01> Quak
10:30:20  <frosch123> moi
10:42:21  <Wolf01> I think it rendered fine
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11:09:09  <Wolf01> BBL
11:23:08  <andythenorth> such Horse
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16:32:03  <andythenorth> o/
16:32:13  <supermop_home> yo
16:32:31  <supermop_home> roll up doors for cargo trams, or sliding box car doors?
16:33:13  <andythenorth> varies by generation
16:33:21  <supermop_home> 70s
16:33:25  <andythenorth> sliding
16:33:29  <supermop_home> 80s?
16:33:35  <andythenorth> roller
16:33:39  <supermop_home> 60s?
16:33:46  <andythenorth> sliding, chunky
16:33:55  <supermop_home> canvas sides?
16:34:00  <andythenorth> maybe
16:38:05  <supermop_home>
16:38:14  <supermop_home> ding ding
16:38:28  <supermop_home> panto+pole
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17:05:13  <andythenorth> anyone help me improve Iron Horse makefile?
17:05:21  <andythenorth> currently I have to use ‘make clean && make install’ every time
17:05:29  <andythenorth> this negates any caching benefit
17:05:39  <andythenorth> but otherwise it doesn’t see changes
17:05:55  <andythenorth>
17:07:20  <andythenorth> - lang changes aren’t detected
17:08:26  <andythenorth> - graphics changes aren’t detected
17:09:34  <andythenorth> - changes to .py source files that affect nml output are detected
17:09:36  <frosch123> fixing makefiles always means rewriting them :p
17:10:15  <frosch123> it easier to rewrite them with your own tricks and looking up whether the rules of someone else work
17:10:37  <frosch123> in this case: directories as targets make no sense in my book, but maybe there is some hidden make feature
17:10:39  <andythenorth> these are rewritten ;)
17:10:48  <andythenorth> I rewrote them :P
17:11:16  <frosch123> s/and/than/
17:11:17  <andythenorth> - changes to .py source that affects graphics aren’t detected
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17:13:47  <andythenorth> last time I tried to fix this I made some kind of recursion :P
17:14:49  <glx> make works on file targets, not dirs I think
17:16:51  <glx> anyway you don't seem to add deps for lang dir, so make will never be triggered without cleaning
17:17:06  <glx> same for graphics
17:19:02  <andythenorth> ok
17:19:09  <andythenorth> so how do I do that? ;)
17:19:22  * andythenorth has read the make docs twice, but never makes any sense
17:20:10  <andythenorth> why does changing png need the nml rebuilt?
17:20:15  * andythenorth is confused
17:22:20  <andythenorth> unrelated to that, doesn’t L81 cause the graphics to be built when the grf is built?
17:22:20  <andythenorth>
17:22:38  <glx> because iron-horse.nml depends on .py .pynml .pt .png .lng
17:22:39  <andythenorth> that should build graphics, lang, docs, nml
17:22:59  <andythenorth> it only builds nml unless I use clean
17:23:02  <glx> as $SOURCE tells it
17:23:34  <andythenorth> so I should remove .png from L18
17:24:21  <andythenorth> one fix down
17:24:21  <glx> you should split the source list and group by target
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17:24:29  <andythenorth> right
17:24:43  <WegeClausen> hi where is the setting to see the boarders of a city
17:24:43  <andythenorth> NML_SOURCES, GRAPHICS_SOURCES etc
17:24:51  <glx> line 78 tells nml file depends on all source
17:25:10  <glx> but line 69 and 72 depends on nothing
17:25:16  <andythenorth> but doesn’t L81 tell to always build graphics, docs etc?
17:25:48  <glx> only if they don't exist
17:25:57  <andythenorth> righty
17:26:00  <glx> as they have no deps
17:26:14  <andythenorth> right
17:26:25  <andythenorth> one day understanding will arrive
17:26:47  <andythenorth> make is some kind of symbol chaining :P
17:27:32  <glx> writing deps is a pain :)
17:28:49  <andythenorth> probably SOURCES doesn’t need to be a var
17:29:15  <glx> it can
17:30:00  <WegeClausen> someone can help me or is this not posible
17:30:09  <glx> using a var is a good idea if you write some kind of generic makefile
17:30:40  <glx> but you should split it for each sub part
17:30:52  <andythenorth> each var only needs consumed once, so eh
17:30:54  * andythenorth testing
17:31:12  <glx> like one group of source files for graphics, one for langs, one for nml
17:32:12  <andythenorth> thanks glx
17:32:18  <andythenorth> graphics changes now detected
17:32:23  <glx> but I'm not sur how make handles a target dir
17:34:36  <glx> WegeClausen: I don't think this settings exist but I may be wrong
17:34:50  <andythenorth> use JGR Patchpack
17:34:53  <andythenorth> from forums
17:34:56  <andythenorth> has town boundaries
17:35:13  <glx> so yeah not in base game :)
17:36:41  <_dp_> CityMania client also has all kinds of town boundaries if you want it for mp
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17:41:42  <andythenorth> that cuts a normal compile time by 50% :P
17:41:48  <andythenorth> 30s is a lot better than > 1 min
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17:58:07  <V453000> andythenorth: the FIRS coal mine is just excellently well drawn
17:58:26  <V453000> I kind of still like some of the details about the original one more, but overall, fucking amazing
18:06:02  <andythenorth> it’s mostly just the original, except not a direct copy :P
18:06:11  <V453000> yes
18:06:12  <andythenorth> but thanks :)
18:06:33  <V453000> overall the level of quality of especially the newer industries is just outstanding
18:06:44  <V453000> it's really making progress over the years
18:07:08  <andythenorth> I prefer
18:07:30  <andythenorth> full on mental roof colour, like original TTD
18:08:11  <V453000> haha
18:08:15  <V453000> yeah that one is nice
18:08:55  <andythenorth> now just needs converting to 32bpp EZ
18:09:05  <andythenorth> ‘to attract more players
18:09:08  <andythenorth> and look modern'
18:09:25  <V453000> there is a whole bunch of really awesome things
18:09:32  <V453000> yeah just draw 16 times more pixels
18:09:36  <V453000> what could possibly go wrong
18:09:43  <V453000> no 32bpp
18:09:46  <andythenorth> ‘looks more modern'
18:09:49  <andythenorth> for 2002
18:09:53  <V453000> haha
18:13:50  <andythenorth> do I make Horse nml super-complicated in hope of faster compiles?
18:13:58  <andythenorth> every vehicle has a lot of switches
18:14:13  <andythenorth> they could all be one set of shared switches, using registers to pass vehicle ID around
18:14:24  <andythenorth> probably wtf
18:15:31  <V453000> :D
18:15:34  * andythenorth thinks not
18:15:41  <andythenorth> faster to compile, slower to code :P
18:15:42  <V453000> overcomplicate it ftw
18:15:43  <andythenorth> maybe
18:17:44  <andythenorth> every wagon has up to 58 switches just to handle showing cargo
18:17:57  <andythenorth> pretty certain they could just be 58 switches once
18:19:01  <andythenorth> not 58 switches * 115 wagons
18:19:04  <andythenorth> @calc 115 * 58
18:19:05  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 6670
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18:30:54  <andythenorth> so intermodal eh?
18:30:59  <andythenorth> which cargos?
18:31:14  <andythenorth> same as box cargos (everything but bulk)?
18:31:20  <andythenorth> or everything?
18:32:49  <andythenorth> and how should the containers recolour?  White + CC?  To specific cargo colours (like Hog tarpaulins)?  Just to CC?  To random range of colours?
18:33:07  <andythenorth> and does intermodal go at pax speed, or freight speed?
18:33:17  <andythenorth> so many questions :P
18:33:35  <V453000> the fuck does intermodal mean
18:33:41  <andythenorth> containers
18:33:47  <V453000> k
18:33:58  <andythenorth> basically if it’s all cargos, and high speed
18:34:00  <andythenorth> then it’s boss
18:34:03  <V453000> containers are wagons with container sprites, nuff specifics :P
18:34:04  <andythenorth> and no other wagons are needed
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21:30:07  <__ln__> for anyone interested in electric sheep or androids, i can recommend the new movie
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23:15:34  <Wolf01> __ln__: Yep, a lot of people recommended it to me too
23:15:53  <supermop_home> i liked it
23:18:52  <Wolf01> I would like it when I could purchase the dvd, or netflix, since I need to travel 40-70km to go to the nearest cinema
23:36:10  <supermop_home> so there exists a tram with a stripe on it that goes like /
23:36:26  <supermop_home> I assumed the other side would have \
23:36:40  <Wolf01> Nope, still /
23:37:03  <Wolf01> I've seen some vehicles here like it
23:37:14  <Wolf01> OCD strikes back
23:37:19  <supermop_home> so that sometimes it goes (_.._//_.._) --->
23:37:59  <supermop_home> and sometimes you see it go (_.._\_.._) --->
23:38:27  <supermop_home> I reworked my template to have both \ --> and // -->
23:38:49  <supermop_home> but now I find the real tram painters were lazier than me
23:39:46  <Wolf01> I live between 2 roro stations, I always see trains with pulling and pushing engines without any logic
23:40:36  <supermop_home> I guess I will allow the fictitious  \
23:41:05  <supermop_home> or could use that slot in template for an art tram or easter egg livery
23:42:27  <Wolf01> +1
23:43:09  <supermop_home> buy tram on my birthday and get a birthday tram
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