Log for #openttd on 15th October 2017:
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00:03:57  <Flygon> <supermop_> so now newly repainted tram gets painted back to the old
00:04:08  <Flygon> Not like it hasn't happened before IRL - But it's not exactly all that likely.
00:04:35  <Flygon> (I'm still bermused that 90s V/Line was so ghetto that they ran some locomotives with 60s/70s VR livery still...)
00:05:16  <Flygon> (Granted, it's come in a full circle with some locomotives going VR Blue/Yellow > V/Line Orange > V/Line Red-Blue > VR Blue/Yellow)
00:05:19  <sim-al2> well if it works...
00:05:38  <Flygon> sim-al2: V/Line just had... no money.
00:06:11  <supermop_> well if its a vinyl wrap, conceivably it will peel off to reveal the old livery
00:09:48  <sim-al2> isn't the new livery purple and yellow?
00:10:03  <sim-al2> or that red and yellow version for that matter
00:10:19  <supermop_> sim-al2: the purple is just on DMUs I believe
00:10:26  <Flygon> It's Purple and Yellow now on V/Line.
00:10:28  <sim-al2> N457 is in it now
00:10:32  <Flygon> Nah, they did an N-class in it.
00:10:33  <sim-al2> (kinda weird to be changing the livery every few years)
00:10:42  <Flygon> It's now called "The Violet Crumble" Livery.
00:10:46  <sim-al2>
00:11:02  <supermop_> Flygon: have they put ptv triangles on the locomotives now?
00:11:11  <Flygon> Yes.
00:11:23  <supermop_> i'm down
00:12:10  <supermop_> although I can see a categorical distinction between the loco hauled and dmu services... why not red triangles?
00:12:31  <Flygon> What do ya mean?
00:12:40  <sim-al2> I do like the blue and yellow on the suburban electrics
00:13:11  <Flygon> I still reckon the Green/Yellow livery was the best on suburbans. D:
00:13:34  <supermop_> trams: green emus: blue dmus: purple stock: red buses:orange
00:14:19  <supermop_> mandate taxis get a yellow triangle livery and you have a regionally cohesive scheme for each 'type' of transit
00:15:11  <Flygon> inb4 all cars have to be Silver.
00:15:44  <supermop_> silver taxis are a bit silly
00:16:07  <Flygon> Yeah. I... don't understand them.
00:16:12  <Flygon> Why aren't all Taxis yellow?
00:16:41  <supermop_> taxis should be readily identifiable even to those who aren't good at recognizing cars or with poor vision
00:17:17  <supermop_> doesn't need to be yellow, but yellow is good because its highly visible and not very common among private cars
00:18:01  <sim-al2> London of course has distinct vehicles
00:18:22  <supermop_> uk accesibilty laws actually now mandate train doors be colored in a contrasting identifiable manner
00:18:35  <sim-al2> good move really
00:19:02  <sim-al2> silly to have the doors blend in until they open
00:19:04  <supermop_> you'd think a door would be obvious, but many people might not notice it right away, even if they have good vision
00:19:33  <sim-al2> plug doors tend to be less noticeable
00:22:36  <sim-al2> regardless of laws I've noticed that many commuter and regional trains already have their doors painted in a similar way
00:23:43  <sim-al2> at least with sliding doors the pocket tends to create more contrast
00:24:24  <supermop_> side of a train car doesn't leave many easy options for branding colors, contrasting doors is an easy way to get your color scheme in and make it more functional
00:26:44  <Flygon> I hate plug doors.
00:26:46  <Flygon> So much.
00:27:02  <Flygon> But I also hate electronically opened sunken doors.
00:27:09  <Flygon> They open so slowly.
00:27:16  <Flygon> And close like shit too.
00:27:33  <sim-al2> might need to steal some Japanese doors then
00:27:34  <Flygon> Comeng doors are nice - They close reasonably quickly, and they're shit quick to open.
00:27:51  <Flygon> Nah, it's some kinda regulation thing.
00:28:03  <Flygon> The Government is terrified someone could lose a limb if the electronic doors closed too quickly.
00:28:30  * Flygon points to that singular Shinkansen death that's actually caused by a fault in the Shinkansen
00:28:41  <sim-al2> well people do tend to try and rush in as the doors close
00:28:51  <Flygon> (Of course, this being Japan, they've probably now programmed their doors to not accidentally decapitate passengers...)
00:28:56  <sim-al2> so you do need to make sure it's not unsafe
00:29:08  <Flygon> True. But... paranoia is paranoia.
00:29:13  <Flygon> Even if it's perfectly solvable.
00:29:35  <Flygon> (A door can close quickly while not actually exerting much force, for example. The Comengs are already a good example of this)
00:29:41  <sim-al2> also on a really crowded train people and their stuff might be in the path of a door
00:29:49  <sim-al2> yeah true
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00:30:29  <Flygon> > Greyfur
00:30:37  <Flygon> Made me check what IRC server I was on for a second there, hahaha.
00:30:57  <Flygon> (For some reason, Australian furry fandom has a disproportionately large Gunzel population >_>)
00:31:14  <sim-al2> lol
00:31:42  <sim-al2> hmm the new V/line livery is also appearing on the carriages
00:31:43  <sim-al2>
00:31:56  <sim-al2> not sure if I like it
00:32:17  <supermop_> its ok but
00:33:00  <supermop_> center cars of emus, dmus and trams do not have the triangles ends
00:33:24  <supermop_> I get that stock isn't fixed in formation, but
00:33:50  <sim-al2> they could just pull an Amtrak and not care
00:34:21  <supermop_> I mean, it could just be purple stripe at top and yellow at bottom
00:34:26  <supermop_> and look fine
00:35:29  <sim-al2> I assume that whoever designed it really wanted the geometric patterns at the ends
00:35:45  <Flygon> I don't like the livery on the carriages...
00:35:53  <Flygon> It... the grey section just looks too flat.
00:35:57  <Flygon> Also it's a graffiti magnet.
00:36:12  <Flygon> Now, if it was a carriage like the Comengs? With that stainless steel look?...
00:36:24  <supermop_> isn't it stainless?
00:36:29  <supermop_> looks it
00:36:48  <Flygon>
00:36:53  <Flygon> The grey is Vynil, iirc.
00:37:17  <supermop_> cut and peel off if it gets tagged
00:37:27  <Flygon> Not quite the 'silver' you expect from raw metal.
00:37:54  <Flygon> I'm not saying it can't look good... but the current shade of grey just doesn't look quite right.
00:38:10  <Flygon> Especially recalling that Victoria's cloudy as hell 9 months of the year.
00:40:32  <sim-al2> of course consider how it might look when it gets dirty
00:41:26  <sim-al2> I think it might be the same shade as the previous paint scheme
00:41:34  <sim-al2>
00:41:45  <sim-al2> but you can see how dirt and soot changes the look
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01:01:01  <Wolf01> 'night
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02:04:46  <ST2> sim-al2, do you see Jinassi here?
02:04:53  <ST2> (just asking ^^)
02:09:20  <ST2> well, guess he's not ^^
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03:45:35  <Flygon> I forgot - Is there a parameter for ensuring industries stay within x amount of tiles within a town?
03:49:13  <Flygon> It's kinda annoying playing a scenario and you have all these industries in the middle of nowhere. <_>
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06:58:52  <andythenorth> o/
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07:24:06  <Greyfur> morning
07:24:56  <andythenorth> hi
07:26:52  <Flygon_> Ey
07:26:54  *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon
07:26:55  <Flygon> Greyfur
07:27:07  <Flygon> You made me double check what network I was on about 7 hours ago. :P
07:27:34  <Flygon> Demographic overlap of Australian furries and Gunzels is disturbingly close. :V
07:27:46  <Greyfur> lol
07:29:39  <Greyfur> I was working on some newgrfs 2004-2007 and recently returned to that... so I wanted to have a look here
07:30:51  <andythenorth> wb :)
07:31:13  <V453000> yo
07:31:30  <Greyfur> ty
07:31:48  <andythenorth> yo V453000
07:33:02  <andythenorth> V453000: how terribly awful is it if you can’t use TL5 for high-speed passengers?
07:33:06  <Supercheese> most newgrfs are now oldgrfs
07:33:09  <andythenorth> is that like the worst thing ever?
07:33:16  <andythenorth> all kittens massacred?
07:34:12  <Greyfur> Supercheese: I know, right? Also, many were created and never got updated with newer features...
07:34:25  <V453000> sounds dumb andy, why would you not be able to?
07:34:37  <andythenorth> trains that build in 2-tile blocks
07:34:48  <andythenorth> mostly for building convenience
07:34:53  <V453000> what did you work on Greyfur ?
07:35:19  <V453000> 32/8 now? :D
07:36:03  <andythenorth> no wagons for this class, all engines
07:36:10  <andythenorth> and depot builds new engines on a new line
07:36:18  <andythenorth> then you have to drag them to make the train :x
07:36:26  <V453000> what
07:36:35  <Greyfur> I worked on CS_tram_Set and George's LongVehs - I did only graphics back then
07:36:42  <V453000> no high speed people wagins?
07:36:52  <andythenorth> they need power
07:36:55  <V453000> nice Greyfur
07:37:17  <andythenorth> you don’t get a boss train at all lengths unless power scales with length
07:37:54  <Greyfur> Now I am working on my own bus set, both graphics and learning to code in nml
07:37:57  <andythenorth> and the only point of this train is to satisfy player need for boss train that destroys all other trains
07:38:20  <V453000> idintgettheproblem andy
07:38:35  <andythenorth> need boss train
07:38:50  <Supercheese> Build only Nyan Trains ---> Probblem Solvved
07:39:09  <andythenorth> boss train needs ~1000hp per 8/8 unit
07:39:25  <andythenorth> means all units have to be engines
07:39:37  <V453000> that depends on speed and weight
07:40:07  <V453000> you can have the engine have powered wagons
07:40:07  <andythenorth> 1000hp is example only but yeah
07:40:18  <andythenorth> powered wagons are no-no-no
07:40:23  * andythenorth has been told
07:40:30  <V453000> sunset in us set works this way
07:40:31  <andythenorth> is a TTDPatch thing, should not be used
07:40:38  <V453000> it works fine
07:41:03  <V453000> well then you can just get a callback which adds vehicle power based on length
07:41:09  <V453000> no powered qagon spec
07:41:13  <V453000> wagon
07:41:21  <andythenorth> needs buy menu text no?
07:41:24  <V453000> sorry am on tablet, typing is ass
07:41:38  <andythenorth> I am on Apple device, it auto-corrects already-correct words
07:41:41  <V453000> well yeah, 'powered wagons'
07:41:41  <andythenorth> potato/potato
07:41:44  <V453000> iz text
07:41:51  <V453000> haha
07:42:14  <V453000> but I used powrered wagons in nuts, its fine
07:42:39  <andythenorth> TL5 is super-important thing?
07:42:45  <V453000> and why not use it, it's not like we are going to remove that compatibility?
07:42:47  <andythenorth> when I played coop it was some fetish
07:43:19  <V453000> I think 5 is kind of the default length
07:43:38  <V453000> but you can say that about many lengths
07:43:51  <andythenorth> I could do 40/8
07:44:01  <V453000> more importantly I believe you should be able to configure any length you want
07:44:13  <V453000> in integers of tiles or halftiles
07:44:46  <andythenorth> is general principle yes
07:44:57  <andythenorth> these high-speed trains are kind of extra bollocks
07:45:01  <V453000> but why 2 tile blocks in the first place?
07:45:09  <andythenorth> just easier to build
07:45:21  <andythenorth> one click, not click-click-drag blah
07:45:28  <V453000> wtf reason :D
07:45:42  <V453000> just make it 16/8 then?
07:45:50  <V453000> building whole tiles makes sense
07:46:15  <V453000> assuming engine isn't 8/8 ... I am expecting 16/8 dualhead eh
07:46:36  <andythenorth> is just engine-is-pax-coach
07:46:44  <andythenorth> no dualhead
07:47:14  <andythenorth> 8/8 engine, lots of hp, 40 pax
07:47:20  <andythenorth> and as many as you want
07:47:31  <andythenorth> but click-drag, click-drag, click-drag is BS
07:47:51  <V453000> yes
07:48:03  <andythenorth> also who needs a 1-tile 200mph train?
07:48:18  <andythenorth> dunno, maybe I can just scrap high-speed :D
07:50:28  <V453000> I think you arenjust overcomplicating it for yourself
07:50:49  <Greyfur> Is there a way to create refit menu text out of two sources? Like language file directly + pulled from a variable or another switch?
07:50:59  <V453000> even if you just have a 300kmh pax engine with 20000 hp of power, ot is already fine
07:51:17  <andythenorth> how?
07:51:27  <andythenorth> at that point, it’s a one-engine newgrf again
07:51:42  <andythenorth> which apparently Nobody Wants :P
07:51:55  <V453000> if you think it will not good when it is too weak and people use double engine, just make graphics for engine-inside train, I do that in nuts too
07:52:09  <V453000> well if it can only carry passengers then it's fine
07:52:17  <andythenorth> it’s more that it fucks with the progression
07:52:33  <V453000> how?
07:52:36  <andythenorth> to get 1860-2020 there has to be a consistent progression of engines and wagons
07:52:46  <andythenorth> I tried sudden big stats bumps, and it’s just weird
07:52:57  <andythenorth> like you have a design for your network, and classes of train
07:53:00  <andythenorth> and then ‘wtf’
07:53:05  <andythenorth> everything is messed up
07:53:23  <V453000> well you just make everything better but keep class logic
07:53:33  <andythenorth> that doesn’t get to 200mph :P
07:53:39  <andythenorth> needs a new type of train in late game
07:53:56  <V453000> I am defeated :D
07:54:03  <andythenorth> like some kind of new technology :P
07:54:25  <andythenorth> I am defeated too currently
07:54:36  <andythenorth> I took the lesson from NUTS, schema must rule
07:54:41  <V453000> just make it modern, give high numbers, run
07:55:07  <V453000> no powered wagon bs
07:55:34  <V453000> in fact powered wagons get ultra powerful real fast and massively motivate megalong trains
07:56:35  <andythenorth> means 75mph, 90mph, 110mph, 170mph, 200mph progression
07:56:40  <V453000> + with powered wagons it means there is only one correct way to build the engine, with non powered wagons you need to consider if you want more engines or not... usually trading capacity for power
07:56:41  <andythenorth> just weird imo
07:56:56  <V453000> I don't see anything wrong
07:57:04  <V453000> iz progress?
07:57:14  <andythenorth> weird huge jump, then small jump
07:58:01  <V453000> well then why not 110 150 200? :D
07:58:20  <andythenorth> not faster enough? dunno
07:58:32  <V453000> the exact values can be changed at any point
07:58:47  <V453000> I was changing and rebalancing nuts for many versions, see the changelog
07:58:56  <andythenorth> dunno, I was -1 to schemas, I thought they were constricting
07:59:05  <V453000> I had some system and tried to make it work
07:59:08  <andythenorth> but every design problem in IH so far is solved by enforcing more clear schema
07:59:19  <V453000> :)
07:59:47  <V453000> 110 to 150 is big improvement, 150 to 200 as well
07:59:50  <V453000> worry not
08:00:41  <andythenorth> means I also have to reset wagon progression :P
08:00:48  <andythenorth> which means I have to reset other engines :P
08:00:57  <andythenorth> high speed is just stupid
08:01:48  <andythenorth> monorail? o_O
08:03:21  <V453000> why now? :D
08:04:01  <V453000> it uses some wagons, pproblem iz?
08:07:35  <andythenorth> wagon speeds are matched to engines
08:07:53  <andythenorth> increasing pax wagon speed would mean increasing mail wagon speed
08:08:06  <andythenorth> increasing mail wagon speed means increasing food wagon speed
08:08:17  <andythenorth> increasing food wagon speed means increasing all other wagon speeds
08:08:27  <andythenorth> increasing all other wagon speeds means increasing all freight engine speeds :P
08:09:06  <andythenorth> then high-speed pax speed needs increased more
08:09:14  <andythenorth> iz non-winnable :P
08:10:01  <V453000> wagon speeds are generally bad inmmany levels, this is one of them
08:10:44  <andythenorth> without them, the only possible conclusion is single wagon type
08:10:55  <andythenorth> and point of horse is ‘lots of wagons'
08:10:55  <V453000> I go make leaves gtfo off lawn, back in the evening, good luck :P
08:11:02  <andythenorth> leaves :(
08:11:05  * andythenorth has that task too
08:11:10  <V453000> lots of wagons are still nice
08:11:36  <V453000> not having giant refit menu and seein variety of wagons in purchse menu is great
08:11:48  * andythenorth not convinced that 1 player request for 200mph pax train justifies wrecking whole set
08:11:49  <Greyfur> well, in reality some freight trains go 80 where passengers travel at 160 kmh
08:11:54  <andythenorth> also would have to wreck Hog and Sam
08:12:18  <V453000> for example if you play nuts first time and use the universal wagon, you have no idea how it looks for various cargoes until you try to refit it
08:12:29  <andythenorth> only 2 viable approaches imho
08:12:31  <andythenorth> nuts way
08:12:32  <andythenorth> horse way
08:12:37  <andythenorth> one or lots
08:12:48  <andythenorth> anything else bollocks
08:12:53  <V453000> it's not just 1 player andy, having some late game modern stuff is nice
08:13:05  <andythenorth> draw nice maglev track :P
08:13:09  <andythenorth> transrapid!
08:13:20  <V453000> asdf
08:13:23  <andythenorth> :P
08:13:28  <V453000> is option though
08:13:59  <V453000> but needs universal engine or track to autoreplace
08:14:08  <andythenorth> always a new problem :)
08:14:19  <andythenorth> this is why I don’t have dedicated high speed type :(
08:14:29  <andythenorth> everything is awesome
08:14:47  <andythenorth> ok build high-speed in 16/8 units
08:14:48  <andythenorth> all happy
08:16:11  <Greyfur> Is there a way to create refit menu text out of two sources? Like language file directly + pulled from a variable or another switch?
08:16:37  <andythenorth> you can substring
08:16:46  <andythenorth> to combine strings
08:18:08  <andythenorth> you can chain switches for handling variations
08:19:35  <Greyfur> I know I can chain them, just found out if I do a text switch, I cannot have every refit menu part go to the same switch as it then doesn't allow refit at all.
08:21:23  <Greyfur> and I would like to keep the type subversion in the name of each refit, so I can base it on year, so my idea was to name refits as Blue, Red, Yellow and behind the color put a text switch based on year of build
08:22:19  <andythenorth> that should work
08:22:31  <Greyfur> Do you have any example on the substring syntax?
08:22:36  <andythenorth> you end up somewhere returning one string per variant
08:23:17  <andythenorth> there’s an example in docs here
08:23:32  <andythenorth> uses ‘STR_EXTRA_PRIMARY’
08:23:53  <andythenorth> not sure I actually understand that example :P
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08:25:40  <andythenorth> string(STR_NAME_aberdare, string(STR_NAME_SUFFIX_STEAM))
08:26:00  <andythenorth> in that case ‘STR_NAME_aberdare’ is not translated, and ‘STR_NAME_SUFFIX_STEAM’ is
08:27:16  <andythenorth> nml concatenates these strings at compile time afaik, if you want to insert stuff from variables during gameplay, it needs a different approach :)
08:29:50  <andythenorth> the english.lng file for the aberdare then has “STR_NAME_aberdare.   :2-6-0 Aberdare  {STRING}”
08:31:22  <Flygon> (I'm guessing my answer to the question of "Can industries be set to only spawn within x amount of tiles of a town" is a 'No'. Tried to check around myself, but everything turned out negative)
08:31:35  <andythenorth> FLHerne: yes, that’s relatively easy
08:31:48  <andythenorth> there is a built-in magic flag, but it has problems
08:31:57  <andythenorth> and it can be done with location check callbacks
08:32:04  <andythenorth> FIRS does it
08:34:04  <andythenorth> Flygon: you want code, or just a yes/no answer? o_O
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08:37:48  <Flygon> Yes/No answer.
08:37:56  <Flygon> Rather not bother the devs about it if nobody else has wanted it. :P
08:39:25  <andythenorth> depending on the industry, it needs to check for houses rather than town sign
08:39:34  <andythenorth> otherwise can’t build near very large cities
08:39:36  <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: i think ECS used "within X tiles there must be at least Y population"
08:40:26  <Flygon> Yeah. Was thinking with default or FIRS, for example.
08:40:41  <Flygon> I see the issue tho.
08:40:44  <Flygon> Just kinda annoying to, say.
08:40:48  <Flygon> Start the Iceland scenario.
08:40:53  <Eddi|zuHause> default bank uses "town must be >1200 population" and "must replace a house"
08:40:59  <Flygon> And there's factories in, uhm... patently unfair locations. :D
08:41:04  <Greyfur> Thank you andy, I will study a little on the strings. :)
08:41:07  <Flygon> Er, not unfair, but... terrible.
08:41:41  <Eddi|zuHause> or maybe it was 2000
08:42:23  <andythenorth> there are two flags
08:42:46  <andythenorth> 3 in fact
08:42:47  <andythenorth>
08:42:56  <andythenorth> bits 3,4 and 5
08:43:14  <andythenorth> but they are not appropriate for, e.g. factories
08:43:28  <andythenorth> Flygon: possibly a GS could also handle that
08:43:45  * andythenorth bbl
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08:44:08  <Flygon> Huh... yeah.
08:44:14  <Flygon> I forgot how flexible scripts are.
08:45:44  <Flygon> But, yeah. Was thinking of something along the lines of "Gotta be within 96 tiles of ANY house to make industry". :P
08:46:19  <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: that's what the nearby tile loop does
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08:46:44  <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: though performance may suffer if you make the radius that high
08:47:00  <Flygon> Well, was mostly using it as an example.
08:47:17  <Flygon> Point taken tho.
08:51:08  <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: anyway, that makes the answer to your question: "yes"
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08:52:07  <stefino> Leanden? are you here? :D
08:52:25  <Flygon> Just need to write a script.
08:53:22  <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: doesn't need a script
08:53:43  <Flygon> Wait. Where in the options was it again?
08:53:46  <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: nearby tile loop on industry creation is available in newgrf
08:54:54  <Eddi|zuHause> though you could use a script, if the scenario is your focus
08:55:04  <Flygon> Hmm...
08:55:13  <Flygon> Okay. Doesn't seem to be a feature in OpenGFX+.
08:55:19  <Flygon> So I have to reply on the NewGRF supporting it?
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08:59:58  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
09:00:05  <Flygon> Aye.
09:00:08  <Flygon> rely
09:00:09  <Flygon> Not reply
09:00:11  <Flygon> Derp. I'm sorry.
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09:30:03  <Wolf01> Moin
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12:03:38  <andythenorth> o/
12:03:44  <Wolf01> o/
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12:18:50  <andythenorth> might work
12:20:08  <Wolf01> Not sure about this
12:21:24  <Wolf01> I need to make a 3-axis joystick with lego... 2 of them
12:26:30  <andythenorth> I’ve broken the ‘one obvious choice’ rule in IH :|
12:26:33  <andythenorth> for realism
12:26:36  <andythenorth> might be bad
12:28:32  <andythenorth> nvm
12:28:37  <andythenorth> ok, need a name for this
12:28:51  <andythenorth> previous generations are ‘Scooby’ and ‘Plastic Postbox’
12:29:18  <andythenorth> ‘Mail Rail'?
12:29:27  <andythenorth> ‘Pushing the Envelope’?
12:35:30  <frosch123> bill hunter
12:36:08  <andythenorth> ‘not bad
12:36:37  <frosch123> "tally" could also work
12:36:54  <andythenorth> ‘box machine'
12:41:03  <supermop_> yo
12:43:52  <andythenorth> lo mop
12:46:40  <supermop_> last night i was wondering,
12:46:50  <supermop_> could you recolor animated colors?
12:47:20  <frosch123> recolornig happens before animating
12:47:49  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but you can't change the animation sequence, and you can't recolour based on which animation step is currently active
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12:48:28  <supermop_> no no way to recolor flashing red to make 'ditch lights'
12:48:37  <supermop_> or amber hazard flashers
12:49:07  <Eddi|zuHause> no, the cycles are fixed
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12:49:50  <andythenorth> there is a fire cycle that’s adequate for flashing amber
12:49:54  <andythenorth> I used it in HEQS
12:50:02  <andythenorth> could also animate on frame-by-frame
12:50:24  <andythenorth> but sprite count would get ridiculous :P
12:51:17  <planetmaker> moin :)
12:51:34  <andythenorth> hi planetmaker
12:51:45  <andythenorth> Horse sprite count is ridiculous already in fact :(
12:51:50  <andythenorth> 26584 sprites for 186 trains
12:52:09  <andythenorth> compile time is horrible
12:52:14  <planetmaker> 142 per train :)
12:52:25  <andythenorth> averages :P
12:52:53  <andythenorth> ‘Howler’ or ‘Happy Train’? (modern passenger railcar)
12:52:54  <planetmaker> that's 17 different looks per train, if you assume 8 side views per look
12:53:07  <andythenorth> it’s more likely 1 look for most trains
12:53:13  <andythenorth> and then some wagons with a *lot* of cargo support
12:53:41  <planetmaker> 17... ok, is less than the amount of cargoes.... 3 (or 4?) loading stages... yeah, quickly gets out of hand :)
12:53:53  <andythenorth> yup
12:54:23  <frosch123> "shaw" for pax
12:58:31  <andythenorth> o_O
13:03:54  <andythenorth> ‘Pony Express’ :P
13:03:58  <andythenorth> roster is ‘Pony'
13:04:27  <frosch123> "pony express" for pax, mail or livestock?
13:04:37  <andythenorth> mail :P
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13:25:40  <andythenorth> so is the new GS made yet? o_O
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13:30:09  <Alberth> o/
13:31:44  <andythenorth> lo Alberth
13:31:49  <andythenorth> such GS ideas then?
13:41:00  <Alberth> ideas would work, implementing them is zhe problem
13:42:04  <Alberth> especially with such splendid weather outside
14:04:58  <supermop_> not much livery variation for 3/8 steeple cab
14:06:08  <supermop_> brown with cc stripe? contrasting hoods?
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14:32:09  <andythenorth> black window surrounds
14:33:10  * andythenorth such gardening
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15:04:15  <andythenorth> boss wagon
15:07:33  <frosch123> why is it articulated?
15:07:38  <frosch123> more axles for more weight?
15:10:07  <andythenorth> I assume so
15:10:36  <andythenorth> keeps axle load down
15:11:04  <andythenorth> I would have thought the german wagons with 3-axle bogies would be more effiicient
15:11:32  <andythenorth> distributing axles might help bridge limits though
15:15:56  <supermop_> andythenorth I put single headlamp between cab windows, could have alternate with two on the front
15:16:04  <andythenorth> yup
15:17:09  <supermop_> though plenty of room in the stack to randomly composite on lights for these guys
15:32:15  <andythenorth> CC roof vs. grey roof supermop_
15:32:20  <andythenorth> makes a fair difference
15:32:23  <andythenorth> CC looks 'modern'
15:32:33  <andythenorth> also you can guard wheels or not
15:32:36  <supermop_> this is a 1890 loco
15:32:42  <supermop_> but yeah
15:33:04  <andythenorth> doors, or black voids
15:33:14  <andythenorth> hog does quite a lot with trams
15:33:21  <andythenorth> without 100% redrawing
15:34:52  <andythenorth> now you can advise me on wagons :P
15:34:59  <supermop_> ha
15:35:02  <andythenorth> 8/8 90mph vs. 8/8 100mph
15:35:06  <andythenorth> need to look different
15:35:13  <andythenorth> but not total change
15:35:16  <supermop_> for pasengers?
15:35:26  <supermop_> 1 door per side instead of 2?
15:35:48  <andythenorth> managed it for hoppers
15:36:06  <andythenorth> L81 and L83 are gen 5 and gen 6 resp.
15:38:51  <frosch123> change the windows
15:39:16  <frosch123> slow wagons have separated windows which can be opened
15:39:32  <frosch123> fast wagons have more continous windows which cannot be opened
15:42:32  <andythenorth> for pax cars yes
15:42:41  <andythenorth> generally sleeker
15:42:48  <andythenorth> open wagons and flat wagons are hardest
15:42:52  <andythenorth> flat wagons, I gave up :P
15:43:18  <andythenorth> open cars, I just need 1 more generation
15:44:17  <frosch123> the open wagons could have interior walls
15:45:21  * andythenorth trying some 10/8 articulated wagons
15:49:05  <frosch123> hmm, the cc somewhat hides it
15:49:19  <frosch123> but early wagons could be made of wood, while modern ones are metal
15:50:19  <andythenorth> twin wagons
15:50:50  <andythenorth> these ones are huge
15:51:32  <frosch123> <- also front and back walls can be different from side walls
15:51:47  <andythenorth> yes
15:51:51  <andythenorth> that might be required
15:52:34  * andythenorth will find a way :P
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15:53:38  <Alberth> like the flat wagons with front/back shield
15:54:04  <Alberth> completely flat is boring :p
15:57:55  <andythenorth> grf is here FWIW
15:58:03  <andythenorth> there’s not much to comment on right now
15:58:05  <andythenorth> but eh
15:58:26  <andythenorth> all intended engines 1860-2020 are now in (except some narrow gauge)
15:58:40  <andythenorth> most wagons are mostly in
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16:46:47  <supermop_> handrails darker or lighter than body painted in same color?
16:47:28  <andythenorth> highlight
16:50:49  <supermop_> too bright?
16:50:51  <supermop_>
16:51:36  <supermop_> white, yellow, and 2cc are two steps lighter than 'normal'
16:51:43  <supermop_> red is 1 step darker
16:52:10  <supermop_> want them to stand out against cab end
16:52:11  <andythenorth> challenging
16:52:18  <andythenorth> details are tricky
16:53:34  <supermop_> could add a solid panel like :
16:53:54  <supermop_> then no yellow on cab or nose needed
16:57:47  <supermop_> anyway rails get stacked
16:58:10  <supermop_> get a chance for red, white 2cc, or yellow, or none
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18:15:34  <andythenorth> hmm
18:15:39  <andythenorth> time to sell some HO trains
18:15:41  <andythenorth> also some Lego :P
18:16:14  <Wolf01> I want to go to the pub, but I don't want to go out :|
18:16:26  <frosch123> you convert them to pixels to save space?
18:16:42  <andythenorth> frosch123: possibly yes :P
18:20:32  <V453000> is the thing with 13/8 trains that Leanden claims possible?
18:20:38  <andythenorth> nope
18:20:41  <V453000> to override length through graphics() thing?
18:20:44  <V453000> yeah that's what I thought
18:21:10  <andythenorth> I should talk to CZ guys :P
18:21:28  <V453000> I'm talking to them almost every day over skype
18:21:41  <andythenorth> they would be better off making stuff for MS Train Simulator
18:21:45  <andythenorth> or Mashinsky
18:22:08  <andythenorth> OTTD is a bad model railroad simulator
18:22:13  <V453000> I'm helping them get oriented, organized and code, but they are basically making the most ultra realistic grf ever made which I will hate the most ever
18:22:19  <V453000> yeah but they don't like the other games
18:22:36  <andythenorth> well they don’t like OpenTTD either, as it is :)
18:22:52  <V453000> and trust me that you only know the tip of the iceberg for megarealism in their dimension :D
18:22:53  * andythenorth is sitting in front of actual model trains
18:22:55  <V453000> haha
18:22:56  <V453000> :D
18:22:57  <andythenorth> going round in a circle
18:22:59  <V453000> good
18:23:17  <andythenorth> best model trains go in a loop 1m x 2m
18:23:25  <andythenorth> not realistic :P
18:23:26  <V453000> they like openttd as it is, they are just doing all kinds of really fucked up realism complications for themselves
18:23:52  <V453000> for example they have a 18/8 wagon hacked by invisible parts, which by itself is eh ... but they even make 2 tile tunnels to hide the hack, and complain about bridges fucking up :D
18:24:01  <V453000> haha
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18:27:00  <Wolf01> andythenorth: trying to make this with lego, fuckload of gears and strange contraptions... also the joysticks will be a challenge
18:27:15  <andythenorth> bonkers
18:33:02  * andythenorth broke it
18:33:05  * andythenorth fixing it
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18:53:32  <Wolf01> Wow, today they finished the 13 new tracks on the Mestre station, mainly for the yard
18:57:27  <Wolf01> No more parked trains in Venice :)
19:07:12  <andythenorth> IH has lots of trains introduce in 1960 :P
19:07:15  <andythenorth> they all appeared at once
19:27:26  <andythenorth> all these wagons are either great
19:27:32  <andythenorth> or this is the worst idea so far :P
19:30:21  <andythenorth> first impressions are ‘worst idea so far'
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19:58:37  <V453000> wot
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20:12:14  <andythenorth> is terrible V453000 :P
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20:25:39  <andythenorth> I should do engine speed limits, not wagon speed limits :x
20:25:56  <supermop_> if a variable gives a whole date, how do I use only the year?
20:26:40  <andythenorth> there is some way to nibble it off
20:26:42  * andythenorth looks
20:28:55  <andythenorth> can’t find it :|
20:33:38  <supermop_> oh well
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21:39:15  <supermop_> is 'tramway train' a dumb name?
21:41:53  <Wolf01> <- try to not confuse it with this
21:42:42  <supermop_> 'industrial train' just sounds like any train that goes to an industry
21:43:36  <Wolf01> Call it tram? It's a tram
21:44:43  <Wolf01>
21:47:17  <supermop_> the little locomotive seems odd to call a tram
21:50:32  <Wolf01> Industrial tramways or light rail share a lot with narrow gauge
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22:37:24  <supermop_> hmm idk what I am supposed to do for the random trigger callback
22:39:16  <supermop_> random_trigger: <the name of my lowest random switch>?
22:58:06  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, something like that
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23:05:16  <supermop_> ok... my tiny electric tram motor
23:05:31  <supermop_> looks exactly like one of andy's heqs
23:05:38  <supermop_> and I drew it from scratch
23:10:58  <supermop_> oops:
23:11:18  <supermop_> that can't be comfortable for those 9 passengers in the crate
23:12:39  <supermop_> nor can it be good for the wagons to have the wheels totally separated like that
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