Log for #openttd on 28th October 2017:
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00:30:17  <supermop_home> Eddi|zuHause: go up a tall mountain and shoot a rocket?
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01:09:55  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_home: thing is, any rocket i come up with is way too high by the time it reaches that speed
01:10:19  <Eddi|zuHause> so, i need a supersonic plane
01:10:42  <supermop_home> that's why you need to find a 13km tall mountain and shoot it horizontally
01:11:13  <Eddi|zuHause> sure, if you find me one of those... :p
01:13:04  <supermop_home> so I have a three track terminus with some double headed electric expresses that leave every 48 days, and two other branches to serve
01:13:43  <supermop_home> not sure if I want one of them going twice as frequently as the express
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01:19:54  <supermop_home> celadon color line doesn't run at all yet, trying to figure out how orange will relate to the blue express to create a slot for the new line
01:26:37  <Eddi|zuHause> wtf is a celadon color?
01:26:53  <supermop_home> color of celadon?
01:27:19  <supermop_home> although I guess that shade is bit too vibrant
01:27:52  <supermop_home> 'light cyan-ish green'?
01:28:06  <Eddi|zuHause> +5 most helpful answer.
01:28:26  <supermop_home> ha
01:29:07  <supermop_home> idk I thought 'celadon' would be more common across languages than some marketing bullshit like 'seafoam'
01:32:20  <supermop_home> based on sounds from other room suddenly everyone in the cowboy show my wife is watching now has SMGs
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01:38:45  <Eddi|zuHause> Sarah Michell Gellars?
02:00:38  <supermop_home> turns out it was P90s
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02:15:20  <sillen> Hi
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06:18:00  <andythenorth> o/
06:19:03  <Alberth> o/
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06:42:10  <andythenorth> I need fewer ports
06:52:30  <Alberth> that would need connecting chains
06:52:53  <Alberth> how does extreme do that, it has a zillion ports?
06:54:37  <Alberth> tbh I am not sure you should make each economy the same-ish, so the same game-play is useful for each economy
06:55:27  <andythenorth> extreme uses ports to provide free ENSP and FMSP
06:55:48  <andythenorth> otherwise the gameplay is very dominated by generating those cargos
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06:56:06  <andythenorth> extreme is better played as a sandbox, or with BB
06:57:48  <Alberth> so it has enough chains to avoid ports
06:58:41  <andythenorth> well it has enough chains that it's easy to dump arbitrary cargos into ports
06:58:46  <andythenorth> generating ENSP and FMSP
06:59:12  <andythenorth> ports function to get cargos produced from inputs that make no sense IRL
06:59:27  <andythenorth> trading, rather than processing
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09:21:10  <andythenorth> maybe this is better
09:21:18  <andythenorth> previous:
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09:26:46  <Samu> hi
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09:40:01  <Samu> i need a proper way to identify an oil rig station at an industry, for newgrf purposes
09:40:28  <Samu> i tested FIRS
09:41:15  <Samu> there's an industry that is built on water but doesn't have an oilrig station near
09:42:36  <Alberth> andythenorth: "Larger cargoflow" doesn't quite work, but the farms seem out of place to me
09:43:50  <Samu> Port, Bulk Terminal, Fishing Harbour, more than 1 actually
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09:47:39  <Samu> then, there's Fishing Grounds and Dredging Site which built oilrigs, firs calls it sandbanks
09:49:16  <Alberth>      ports are not water industries
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09:52:21  <Samu> i'm confused, i need to build them at coasts
09:52:52  <Samu> coastal tiles are water tiles
09:52:57  <Samu> MP_WATER
09:53:39  <Alberth> yes, it requires coast tiles but it's a normal lang industry
09:53:59  <Alberth> you cannot use the industry without building a station next to it
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09:54:33  <Alberth> andy just added a requirement to the tiles that some must be watery
09:54:55  <Alberth> looks better, given the name :)
09:55:20  <Samu> i need to investigate the Port industry better
09:55:36  <Samu> what behaviour does it have and such
09:56:37  <Alberth> you can look up in the code what type iof industry it i
09:56:40  <Alberth> *is
09:56:47  <Alberth> bbl
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09:56:53  <Samu> so apparently, i can't identify an oil rig by the industry behavioir
09:57:09  <Samu> when i say oil rig, I mean the station near the industry
10:07:00  <V453000> do I go to jail if I have openttd in the background just playing the original ttd music?
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10:10:43  <Eddi|zuHause> if it's the old title game, you surely go insane from the *dingdingding* :p
10:11:16  <V453000> no it's a multiplayer map scrolled to the corner :D
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12:34:17  <andythenorth> so how much should the grapviz layout dictate FIRS gameplay?
12:34:44  <Eddi|zuHause> as grahpviz layout is generally terrible: not too much
12:38:30  <andythenorth> is that a mess or not?
12:38:35  <andythenorth> because the economy plays fine
12:38:46  <andythenorth> 'mess' is a relative concept in graphviz output
12:39:27  <Eddi|zuHause> that seems fine to me, why?
12:39:47  <andythenorth> ok
12:40:00  <andythenorth> triangulating what 'mess' means to other people
12:42:01  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure if i'm a reliable authority on that :p
12:42:26  <andythenorth> it will do
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12:57:58  <andythenorth> this chart is somewhat neat
12:57:59  <andythenorth>
12:58:11  <andythenorth> but Pipe doesn't go to Liquids Terminal, and I want it to
12:58:17  <andythenorth> it's play-tested already and works fine
12:58:30  <andythenorth> adding that edge ruins the graph
12:58:51  <andythenorth> also sending Vehicles to port ruins the graph
12:59:12  <Eddi|zuHause> can't help you on that
13:00:03  <frosch123> sulphur goes to liquids terminal?
13:00:12  <andythenorth> molten sulphur
13:01:57  <Samu> supermop are u around
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13:02:12  <Alberth> o/
13:02:21  <andythenorth> lo Alberth
13:02:22  <frosch123> just add the pipe->liquid terminal
13:02:31  <frosch123> i think you are overrating the graphs
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13:02:45  <frosch123> port is weird
13:02:50  <frosch123> port is like a town
13:03:13  <Eddi|zuHause> i think you can add a property to a -> so it doesn't induce a layout change
13:03:14  <frosch123> can the general store produce gold?
13:03:15  <andythenorth> that's kind of what I want to hear
13:03:26  <Eddi|zuHause> but instead is drawn whatever way fits
13:03:35  <Samu> need english help
13:03:43  <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_NONIND_ACCEPT_AT_SELF                        :Allow industry stations to accept cargo of other sources: {STRING2}
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13:04:00  <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_IND_ACCEPT_AT_NONSELF                        :Allow non-industry stations to accept cargo accepted by the industry: {STRING2}
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13:04:06  <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_NONIND_SUPPLY_AT_SELF                        :Allow industry stations to supply cargo of other sources: {STRING2}
13:04:14  <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_IND_SUPPLY_AT_NONSELF                        :Allow non-industry stations to be supplied with cargo supplied by the industry: {STRING2}
13:04:22  <Samu> regarding this:
13:05:02  <andythenorth>
13:05:05  <andythenorth> pretty bad
13:05:09  <frosch123> vehicle dealer should output scrap metal
13:05:31  <frosch123> hmm, oh there is a separate scrap yard
13:05:35  <andythenorth> scrappage :)
13:05:48  <andythenorth> at a fixed rate?
13:05:56  <andythenorth> or more if vehicles are delivered?
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13:06:15  <Eddi|zuHause> cash for clunkers (or what was that called?)
13:06:15  <Samu> guess it's confusing?
13:06:23  <frosch123> conversation is hard :)
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13:06:28  <frosch123> fixed rate
13:06:39  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: tooth gold
13:07:22  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... 45 minutes to download Civ VI (and then i probably hate it)
13:14:57  <Alberth> towns produce scrap :p
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13:25:01  <Samu> i figured better variable names
13:25:30  <supermop_home> Eddi|zuHause: that was the colloquial name used in the news, the actual law/program had some stupid law name no one remembers
13:25:49  <Samu> hope they're clear enough
13:25:56  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_home: we had a similar program called "Abwrackprämie"
13:26:11  <supermop_home> sometimes American laws have the most boring uninformative names,
13:26:31  <Samu> oh, supermop_home, if you have time, are these string names easy to understand?
13:26:50  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_home: german law names are also boring, but also occasionally monstrous :p
13:27:03  <Samu> they are strings for settings
13:27:11  <supermop_home> and sometimes some congressman tries to be clever and shoehorn a ridiculous name into a lame acronym that makes you roll your eyes like a bad dad joke
13:27:35  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure the concept of a "dad joke" exists here
13:27:42  <supermop_home> samu, make sense to me
13:28:21  <Samu> oki
13:28:25  <supermop_home> Eddi|zuHause I could make a bad dad joke about how all german jokes are bad....
13:28:56  <supermop_home> I do know many germans who are pretty funny though
13:28:56  <Samu> Alberth: i might have some trouble identifying industries which build stations
13:29:32  <Samu>
13:29:42  <Samu> is this enough?
13:30:48  <Samu> i'm not too sure what tile_are_loop do
13:30:49  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_home: well, my understanding of "dad jokes" is that they're meant to be bad
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13:31:18  <supermop_home> Eddi|zuHause I think it depends on if the joke is being told as a meta joke or not
13:31:42  <Samu> tile_area_loop
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13:31:56  <supermop_home> in the most straightforward case I believe it is just a bad joke from a dad who things its kind of funny
13:33:00  <supermop_home> some dads of course are aware of how embarassing the bad jokes are to their teenage kids and as a meta joke, then tell intentionally bad jokes in the style of a clueless dad
13:33:53  <Samu> are there newgrf industries that build train stations, i think i saw some newgrf that do this... can't recall
13:34:01  <supermop_home> my dad seemed to pass into this 2nd phase around 8 or so years ago (when I was already in my 20s)
13:34:33  <supermop_home> also before he became aware of this trope he actually told pretty good jokes
13:35:36  <supermop_home> after having a few jokes fall flat with my wife, over the past couple years, I have prematurely moved to the dad joke phase with her
13:37:35  <andythenorth> if I delete the Pipe cargo, the graph likely improves
13:37:58  <supermop_home> what is the UK dad joke paradigm andythenorth?
13:38:44  <andythenorth> on a par with dad dancing
13:39:07  <supermop_home> hmm that is not an established trope here
13:39:34  <supermop_home> my dad generally avoids dancing as much as possible
13:40:03  <supermop_home> my mom had to force him to at my wedding
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13:40:56  <frosch123> also at his own wedding?
13:40:58  <andythenorth> ok so FIRS graphs are poor when an end-of-chain output cargo loops back to near the start of a chain
13:41:13  <andythenorth> the graphs are set up to avoid that for ENSP and FMSP
13:41:19  <frosch123> andythenorth: it's called "supplies"
13:41:29  <frosch123> replace pipe with engsup?
13:41:33  <supermop_home> frosch123 based on the photos of him in an all white tuxedo with flared pants, I assume he was a bit more eager then
13:41:54  <andythenorth> frosch123: tried that, works
13:42:02  <andythenorth> doesn't give me interesting cargo sprites though :)
13:42:24  <supermop_home> andy's lament "it works, must fix it"
13:42:38  <supermop_home> you could tattoo that across your chest
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13:48:09  <andythenorth> supermop_home: should <button> and <input> tags in html stop showing hand cursor on hover? o_O
13:48:16  <andythenorth> oops, wrong obsession :P
13:49:42  <andythenorth> frosch123: is it wrong to group more cargos in with ENSP/FMSP? o_O
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13:51:25  <frosch123> i would rather look at the amount of industries producing/requireing them
13:51:52  <frosch123> supplies are not supposed to be a mass cargo, right?
13:52:10  <andythenorth> no
13:52:17  <frosch123> they add production bonuses but are not directly processed
13:52:20  <andythenorth> yes
13:52:32  <andythenorth> ports are unusual
13:52:38  <andythenorth> and are causing me trouble in Steeltown
13:52:47  <frosch123> i actually would cut down on the ports in steeltown
13:52:54  <andythenorth> I'm trying to :)
13:52:57  <frosch123> merge port and trading post
13:53:11  <supermop_home> i'd cut down on ports in general in most cases
13:53:12  <frosch123> merge pipe into ensp
13:53:20  <frosch123> and remove ensp from trading post
13:53:37  <supermop_home> seems like port should be a niche helper, not the focus of chains
13:53:48  <andythenorth> depends on economy
13:53:55  <supermop_home> of course
13:54:06  <andythenorth> if the only source of ENSP is the steel chain, Steeltown is unplayable :)
13:54:29  <andythenorth> needs to be some almost-free sources
13:54:42  <supermop_home> port is bootstrap helper
13:55:32  <supermop_home> when game starts its like you are on some undeveloped frontier, of course you need a little bit from outside to start up
13:55:48  <frosch123> i do not quite like "zinc"
13:56:08  <frosch123> is there a good term for "additive metals" or something?
13:56:12  <supermop_home> but some portal where you dump hundreds of tons of x and get hundreds of tons of y doesn't quite fit
13:56:16  <frosch123> something that could be delivered to multiple sources
13:56:30  <frosch123> like foundry
13:56:32  <supermop_home> something like fine metals?
13:56:47  <frosch123> or some tools workshop: steel + additive metals -> goods
13:56:54  <supermop_home> idk if that is the word, but thats the analogous term for chemical industry
13:56:57  <frosch123> +ensp possibly
13:57:13  <andythenorth> frosch123: I had 'non-ferrous metals' previously
13:57:19  <andythenorth> deleted it in an earlier version
13:57:26  <andythenorth> I am 100% not convinced by zinc
13:57:35  <supermop_home> i wonder if grouping all the alloying metals together is weird tho
13:57:36  <andythenorth> it was better as chemicals
13:57:44  <supermop_home> zinc is a chemical
13:57:47  <supermop_home> technically
13:58:00  <andythenorth> let's try dropping zinc
13:58:03  <frosch123> chemicals are liquids to me :)
13:58:14  <andythenorth> liquid zinc ;)
13:58:20  <frosch123> "fine metals" sound fine to me
13:58:29  <frosch123> zinc -> fine metals
13:58:37  <frosch123> fine metals -> foundry
13:58:51  <frosch123> steel + fine metals -> tools workshop -> goods + ensp
13:59:07  <supermop_home> frosch123 i feel like people might think fine metals are things for jewelry though, platinum, silver, gold, iridium
13:59:30  * andythenorth tests
13:59:38  <andythenorth> I think just deleting zinc is cleanest
13:59:50  <andythenorth> can't expect a clean graph if there's too much stuff
14:00:12  <frosch123> weird priorities again :)
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14:01:02  <andythenorth> the graphs do seem to match up with playability
14:01:23  * supermop_home fails to find simpsons zinc gif
14:01:28  <andythenorth> <- I just played a game of that
14:01:42  <andythenorth> the gameplay is fun, there are lots of almost-separate mini-chains
14:01:46  <andythenorth> as per the graph
14:01:53  <andythenorth> might be post-hoc rationalisation though :P
14:02:23  <supermop_home>
14:02:30  <frosch123> "special metals"?
14:02:38  <Alberth> you change "in a hot country" lately?
14:03:03  <Alberth> *changed
14:03:13  <andythenorth> not much
14:04:43  <frosch123> andythenorth: about chains: i prefer asymmetric chains with either more producers than demanders or more demanders than producers. 1:1 cargos are weird
14:04:44  <Alberth> I tried it some time ago, and it didn't appeal to me, quite like default play
14:04:46  <frosch123> that
14:05:06  <frosch123> that's why i would like to have zinc/fine metal/special metals to have mulitple destinations
14:05:15  <andythenorth> yes, it IAHC is quite like default play
14:06:43  <Alberth> steeltown forces me to decide where to bring the cargo
14:07:00  <Alberth> (if I have something to say about it :p )
14:08:21  <andythenorth> interesting feedback
14:08:26  <andythenorth> I thought the choices would be annoying
14:08:29  <andythenorth> I've been removing them
14:09:24  <frosch123> mind, it's only a choice if there are few destinations (2 or 3)
14:09:33  <andythenorth> it has an upside too
14:09:36  <frosch123> not if it's "everyone wants it"
14:09:50  <frosch123> so, different to supplies
14:09:50  <andythenorth> when there are 2 destinations, there is possibly more chance of one of them being nearby :P
14:09:56  <andythenorth> this is a serious factor
14:10:12  <andythenorth>
14:10:24  <andythenorth> I think it's better without any secondary metals, just steel
14:10:44  <andythenorth> logic says I should delete Pipe too
14:11:16  <andythenorth> but Pipe cargo looks cool
14:11:22  <andythenorth>
14:11:32  <andythenorth> I think that is a legit concern
14:14:13  <Alberth> clearly, pipe cargo must be yellow
14:14:41  <andythenorth> or blue or green :D
14:15:27  <Alberth> I don't understand why you have farms and food in there
14:15:33  <Alberth> it looks off
14:15:53  <andythenorth> food isn't optional
14:16:00  <andythenorth> required for arctic and tropic
14:16:02  <Alberth> maybe you try to have alcohol in there? :p
14:16:49  <frosch123> rename the economy to robot town
14:16:56  <frosch123> replace food with batteries
14:17:33  <andythenorth> are vehicles exportable? o_O
14:17:37  <andythenorth> or just to towns?
14:17:42  <andythenorth> there's something weird either way
14:17:51  <andythenorth> vehicles -> port -> more stuff in the chain
14:18:03  <andythenorth> vehicles -> towns, but everyone knows vehicles are a global export?
14:18:39  <frosch123> i think ports should not accept the exact same as towns
14:18:47  <frosch123> a port is not a town without inhabitants
14:19:17  <frosch123> delivering goods or food to ports would be "wrong"
14:19:58  <frosch123> vehicles may be acceptable
14:25:00  <andythenorth> the clusters are better now
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14:50:42  <andythenorth> sand for glass isn't from the sea
14:50:48  <andythenorth> should I add dredging site anyway?
14:50:59  <andythenorth> there are zero sea-based industries in Steeltown
14:51:45  <frosch123> i don't think that is bad
14:52:01  <frosch123> keep the out-of-scope cargos to the ports :)
14:53:37  <andythenorth> could add a black hole for Pipe
14:53:38  <andythenorth> at sea
14:53:43  <andythenorth> pipe-laying barge :P
14:54:05  <andythenorth> could add wind turbines?
14:54:11  <andythenorth> could add electrical machines?
14:54:14  * andythenorth many ideas
14:59:25  <Alberth> consumer goods :)
14:59:49  <andythenorth> fridges
14:59:53  <frosch123> andythenorth: can you rename one of the ports to "shipyard"?
15:00:09  <andythenorth> I played a game with shipyard :)
15:00:10  <frosch123> or actually another shore-based industry "shipyard"
15:00:18  <frosch123> accepting steel and pipe and stuff
15:00:26  <andythenorth> had the 'sea supplies' concept
15:00:29  <andythenorth> was kind of ... odd
15:00:34  <andythenorth> sea supplies went to ports
15:01:08  <frosch123> i imagine a shipyard to be visually interesting
15:01:13  <andythenorth> +1
15:01:23  <supermop_home> hmm city is outpacing the cute jitneys
15:01:46  <andythenorth> oil rig construction yard
15:01:48  <andythenorth> no oil though :D
15:01:56  <supermop_home> could replace with trams or proper buses but I like seeing the little guys run around
15:02:09  <frosch123> andythenorth: ofc, they are under construction
15:02:26  <andythenorth> maybe I should add train factory
15:03:05  <frosch123> i would stay away from that rabbit hole
15:03:15  <frosch123> people will demand effect on gameplay
15:04:07  <frosch123> (somehow that does not hold for shipyards :p )
15:05:30  <andythenorth> no :)
15:05:48  <Samu> dayum, i was having trouble creating settings
15:06:16  <Samu> turns out a damn typo was affecting it all
15:06:36  <Samu> that damn S
15:06:39  <Samu> was ruining
15:08:19  <frosch123> shipyard could boost nearby ports?
15:08:43  <frosch123> likely too obscure
15:10:16  <andythenorth> too obscure :)
15:10:31  <andythenorth> it was a cute concept, but the chains just got way too long
15:11:02  <Samu>
15:11:36  <Samu> that Cargo Distribution just above... so misleading
15:12:57  <Samu> is it in good english? i have yet to come with _HELPTEXTs
15:14:17  <andythenorth> what else can I deliver to liquids terminal? o_O
15:17:46  <frosch123> fmsp
15:18:13  <andythenorth> resins? o_O
15:18:43  <frosch123> not steeltown :)
15:19:32  <andythenorth> milk? o_O
15:19:54  <frosch123> you could shift cement from bulk terminal to liquids terminal
15:20:07  <andythenorth> powdered?
15:21:33  <frosch123> when you move cement to liquids, you can merge bulk terminal and port
15:21:58  <andythenorth> nah, I'm one cargo over
15:22:07  <andythenorth> 3 into 2 doesn't go
15:22:21  * andythenorth might lose wifi any minute :|
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15:44:19  <andythenorth> gas field?
15:44:21  <andythenorth> o_O
15:44:27  <andythenorth> gas -> lime kiln
15:44:32  <andythenorth> pipe -> gas field
15:44:55  <andythenorth> port -> chemicals
15:44:59  <andythenorth> sulphur -> bulk terminal
15:45:09  <andythenorth> delete liquids terminal
15:56:01  <andythenorth> probably just time to start play-testing
15:56:11  <andythenorth> enough armchair design :P
16:02:40  <Samu> question, are there town buildings built on water?
16:03:02  <Samu> well, nevermind, even if they are, they don't have a neutral station
16:03:39  <supermop_home> samu, no I'm not sure how that would work
16:04:05  <supermop_home> something like a Vietnamese or Cambodian 'floating village' would be neat
16:04:42  <supermop_home> but in practice it would probably be more like a FIRS fishing grounds with different sprites
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16:36:34  <andythenorth> how did I break 2nd CC in Horse? :o
16:38:14  <frosch123> removed the flag to enable it?
16:38:27  <frosch123> added the cb for recoloring?
16:39:48  <andythenorth> added the cb for recolouring
16:39:58  <andythenorth> maybe the flag got mangled
16:40:30  <frosch123> if the cb is used, the flag likely does not matter
16:40:32  <frosch123> only the cb results
16:43:17  <andythenorth> I get 2cc as blue only
16:43:35  <frosch123> so the cb returns 2cc_base or something
16:43:39  <andythenorth> maybe
16:43:43  <andythenorth> recolour sprite might be wrong
16:44:48  <andythenorth>
16:45:27  <frosch123>  1: return base_sprite_2cc; <!--! no change -->  <- that sets both to dark blue
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16:46:06  <frosch123> make it the same as the line below, but swap 1 and 2
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16:53:34  <supermop_home> maybe i'll electrify all this freight
16:53:59  <frosch123> to prevent theft?
16:54:06  <supermop_home> ha
16:54:19  <supermop_home> theft by low station rating
16:54:41  <supermop_home> because i can't fit the slow steam freight into the schedule for the mainline
16:56:23  <andythenorth> ok 2CC works now frosch :)
16:56:28  <andythenorth> but 1CC is broken :)
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16:56:53  <andythenorth>
16:57:44  <andythenorth> looks to me like the compile has failed
16:57:50  <andythenorth> nml is wrong
16:59:23  <frosch123> switch looks fine to me
17:02:44  <andythenorth> EBKC
17:02:47  <andythenorth> compiling FIRS :P
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17:17:58  <supermop_home> hmm where to cascade all these old tiny buses
17:22:04  <andythenorth> starting a steeltown game is very hard
17:22:21  <andythenorth> everything connects, so if the map is short of some industry types, game will be fail
17:26:14  <supermop_home> andythenorth I usually end up missing some big harbor type industry in firs games
17:26:23  <andythenorth> yup
17:26:36  <andythenorth> you have to have water > 40% in my experience
17:27:28  <supermop_home> sometimes i try to roll with it and make enough to buy one
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17:45:18  <Samu> i had a bug with town cargo acceptance :(
17:48:40  <Samu> it's so easy to get confused, i'm dealing with 4 behaviours, each one can be on and off now
17:49:14  <Samu> alright, think this is now working
17:49:19  <Samu> gonna post v2
17:49:33  <Samu> oh wait, i'm not posting, need to add descriptions
17:49:55  <Samu> looking for an expert in english
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17:50:27  <Samu> Allow industry stations to accept cargo of other sources: {STRING2}
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17:54:45  <Samu> When disabled, stations attached to industries, such as Oil Rigs, won't accept cargo that is not accepted by the industry this station serves.
17:56:32  <Samu> When disabled, stations attached to industries, such as Oil Rigs, won't accept cargo that is not accepted by the industry this station is attached to.
17:56:34  <Samu> better?
17:56:52  <Samu> these stations are attached to?
17:57:14  <Samu> I'm terrible at describing stuff, a little help plz
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18:41:35  <peter1138> That's terrible wording, indeed.
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19:20:41  <Samu> english help  needed! ->
19:20:55  <Samu> thx in advance, dinner time, be back later
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19:39:01  <andythenorth> yeah no
19:39:09  <andythenorth> liquids terminal needs another input
19:39:12  <V453000> izn't?
19:40:25  <andythenorth> such
19:41:05  * V453000 is just peacefully proceeding to make a train model :>
19:41:34  <andythenorth> winning
19:50:46  <andythenorth> what can soda ash be converted to?
19:51:56  <Samu> bacl
19:52:14  <Samu> meh no replies
19:55:04  <andythenorth> caustic soda?
19:57:13  <frosch123> is that related to metal?
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19:57:51  <andythenorth> no
19:57:55  <andythenorth> it's a free cargo
19:58:03  <andythenorth> produced from soda ash and limestone
19:58:13  <andythenorth> makes caustic soda and quicklime
19:58:34  <andythenorth> which is all very clever, but I would just make it a second cargo from soda ash mine
19:58:39  <andythenorth> to liquids terminal
19:59:04  <andythenorth> or some other arbitrary chemicals
20:00:42  <andythenorth> ammonia from Haber Process?
20:00:48  <frosch123> what about sending fmsp to liquids terminal?
20:01:19  <frosch123> what's the fmsp level in your game? too much? too little?
20:01:23  <andythenorth> about right
20:01:36  <andythenorth> it only comes from slag grinding plant
20:01:43  <frosch123> hmm, i thought it would be too much with only one destination
20:02:22  <frosch123> does any other economy export supplies?
20:02:32  <andythenorth> nah
20:02:35  * andythenorth checks
20:02:36  <frosch123> i mean most ports supply some supplies, so some economy should export them :p
20:02:40  <andythenorth> I know :)
20:03:17  <andythenorth> the ports aggregate :D
20:03:30  <andythenorth> all the other cargos that get delivered to ports are combined to be supplies
20:03:31  <frosch123> i wonder, is it possibly to turn the ports into some late-game thing
20:03:50  <frosch123> imagine you have mines in the early game, but they never increase production
20:04:20  <frosch123> while there are some hard to reach conditions for ports to import a ton of ore
20:04:39  <frosch123> like, export lots of vehicles, get lots of ore
20:04:45  <frosch123> export few things, get nothing
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20:10:19  <andythenorth> think it would need to be designed for that gameplay
20:12:35  <andythenorth> ports would produce zero unless delivered to?
20:20:25  <frosch123> i just wonder how the reverse to iahc would look like
20:20:33  <frosch123> iacc?
20:20:48  <frosch123> iatc?
20:22:41  <andythenorth> there has long been planned an arctic economy
20:22:46  <andythenorth> but I never got inspired to make it :)
20:23:15  <frosch123> but arctic is not exactly a colonial empire
20:23:29  <frosch123> s/empire/overlord/
20:23:56  <andythenorth> depends on your views about indigineous reinder herders
20:24:05  <V453000> death to all
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20:28:08  <andythenorth> hmm
20:28:13  <andythenorth> salt from soda ash mine?
20:28:30  <andythenorth> salt -> chemicals plant -> chemicals
20:32:56  <Samu> FLHerne and supermop_home i posted a new version
20:33:19  <Samu> who wants to test it out?
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20:56:32  <andythenorth> steeltown seems to mostly be chemicals :P
20:58:14  <supermop_home> this brickworks is located in such a way there is no natural way to branch off the mainline to bring it clay
20:58:26  <supermop_home> may have to just use trucks
20:58:54  <Samu> supermop_home:  :(
21:03:16  <supermop_home>
21:03:29  <supermop_home> how would you guys go about that
21:04:51  <supermop_home> truck or branch line?
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21:06:05  <frosch123> huh? there is plenty of space for a branch
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21:12:32  <supermop_home> seems like it would look odd crossing over the other branch
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21:39:30  <FLHerne> supermop_home: Extend the river, build some of the little squid barges
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21:39:49  <supermop_home> FLHerne forgot to load a ship set this game
21:40:03  <FLHerne> Meh, adding vehicle sets is usually safe-ish
21:40:22  <FLHerne> Oh, maybe not if you have existing default ships that would be disabled
21:41:19  <FLHerne> Crossing the branch would be ugly, yes
21:43:06  <supermop_home> might build a yard just past west edge of the screenshot
21:43:08  <FLHerne> You could move the existing branch to the north, so it crosses the lake and joins the mainline between the claypit and Yen Dung
21:43:27  <supermop_home> hmm yeah
21:44:25  <supermop_home> I was thinking make the branch cross the river further south, so it swings by the brickyard
21:45:08  <FLHerne> or so
21:45:45  <FLHerne> Oops
21:45:55  <FLHerne> rather
21:46:17  <FLHerne> What's to the left?
21:46:56  <FLHerne> Does the branch have to join the mainline where it does, or could it go via the brickworks and then at a nicer angle?
21:48:21  <FLHerne> ?
21:53:32  <supermop_home> and then dump clay and sand in a yard off the edge to the west, where another train will take it down the branch
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21:54:29  <supermop_home> coal comes from the branch to a steelmill to the west, so a realignment would allow some coal to get dropped at the brick yard
22:04:48  <supermop_home> too complex maybe:
22:05:37  <supermop_home> black yard is coal dump, industrial tram can take some to the brick works
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22:06:56  <Samu> what you guys talkin about
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22:07:16  <supermop_home> cement plant to NW, so clay train can take somecoal back to the clay pit, then it can head onward with some clay that way
22:07:49  <supermop_home> Samu how to connect more industries to my network in a way that doesn't look too ugly
22:10:14  <supermop_home> FLHerne the only problem with your diagram is I hate having the loading station on the other side of the line from the industry
22:11:00  <supermop_home> this line only sees one passenger train ever 36 days or so, so I can cross the mainline at freight speed somewhere
22:17:29  <FLHerne> supermop_home: You can use those ISR conveyor-tunnel-entrances to make it look good
22:17:38  <FLHerne> (or just add a crossing)
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22:39:15  <Samu> i'm bored
22:39:31  <ST2> grab some tea ^^
22:39:44  <Samu> oh hey
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22:40:24  <supermop_home> this stupi sheep farm/oil refinery is really in the way of a nice potential junction
22:40:25  <Samu> i grabbed some savegame of your giant 2k map server
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22:40:48  <Samu> loaded in my patched openttd, and screwed all ships
22:40:49  <ST2> Samu: you could asked for it ^^
22:41:00  <Samu> mission successful
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22:41:30  <Samu> just kidding
22:41:49  <ST2> well, what you do on SP... no one will complain xD
22:42:26  <Samu> having it as settings was a really good idea
22:42:39  <Samu> supermop_home: don't you wanna test?
22:42:51  <supermop_home> test what?
22:43:00  <Samu>
22:43:06  <Samu> i uploaded v2
22:43:22  <supermop_home> I am technically testing my RVs right now
22:43:28  <Samu> :)
22:43:43  <supermop_home> just distracted my trying  to make some nice train junctions
22:43:48  <supermop_home> but ill take a look
22:44:05  <supermop_home> I don't know how to compile
22:44:09  <ST2> Samu: waterborne cargos are quite tricky - had you tested it with FIRS, for example
22:44:34  <Samu> uhm... well, part of firs, yes, i'm not familiar at all with it
22:45:25  <Samu> there were waterborne industries in it that don't have stations
22:45:40  <ST2> exactly
22:45:42  <supermop_home> I don't think that is true
22:45:52  <Samu> that made me rethink how I was checking those stations
22:46:08  <supermop_home> fishing grounds and dredging site both have station
22:46:14  <Samu> v2 is supposedly handling it better
22:46:49  <Samu> those industries / stations
22:47:23  <Samu> it seems that 2 consecutive IndustryGfx == 24
22:47:58  <Samu> dictacte whether the industry will attach a station
22:48:03  <Samu> or not
22:48:38  <Samu> it's a bit tricky
22:50:56  <Samu> when the station is built, the IndustryGfx information is lost
22:51:02  <Samu> on one of the tiles
22:52:14  <Samu> i'm not 100% sure my new method is fool-proof, but should be okay
22:53:42  <Samu> so, plz throw newgrfs at it, see if it fails or misbehaves, supermop_home, once you have tijme
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23:13:38  <Samu> my most downloaded patch
23:13:48  <Samu> i'm surprised it's related to AIs
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23:51:08  <Samu> crap, i found a bug... cargodist is ruining it
23:51:50  <Speedy> sleep over and try again
23:55:11  <Samu> actually, i'm confused
23:56:04  <Samu> cargodist is so confusing i dont even know if it's bugged
23:58:03  <Samu> doesn't seem bugged
23:58:12  <Samu> seems to be how cargodist works :o
23:59:18  <Samu> I am, on the fly, changing cargo acceptance of a station. Cargodist seems to cope with it

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