Log for #openttd on 1st January 2019:
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00:00:17  <Wolf01> Happy new year GMT users!
00:00:35  <Samu> thx
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00:30:53  <Samu> oh no, can't append more orders...
00:31:35  <Samu> looks like i need to use clone orders next
00:31:44  <Samu> shared orders*
00:32:28  <glx> it's indeed a good idea to use shared orders for vehicles on the same line
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00:35:18  <Samu> my aircraft code is becoming a big mess
00:35:46  <Samu> more than it already is
00:51:58  <planetmaker> only code which is being used grows hairs :)
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03:56:40  <Samu> AIVehicle.GetGroupID(vehicle) == vehicle_to_depot[0]
03:57:13  <Samu> doing this instead of creating a list of vehicles in the group
03:58:13  <Samu> it shall never crash the AI again (I hope)
04:03:32  <Samu> wtf, when unsharing orders, it deletes the entire orders?
04:03:37  <Samu> that's lame
04:14:11  <Samu> why do you make working with AIs so difficult
04:20:44  <Samu> if I had 100 orders in the list and i wanted to unshare a single vehicle, I'd have to rebuild the entire list again..
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08:29:38  <andythenorth> moin
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08:40:50  <Alberth> moin
08:40:56  <Alberth> freaking pixel stuf
08:47:31  <andythenorth> :P
08:47:38  <andythenorth> rebase?
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08:50:41  <nielsm> happy new year :)
08:50:58  <nielsm> unless you live on some pacific island where there's still a few hours to go
08:54:02  <Alberth> is there a standard image -> pixel colour text-file dump program and vv ?
08:54:11  <Alberth> ie like hexdumps
08:57:43  <Alberth> imagemagick doesn't apparently
08:57:56  <nielsm> I'm not sure I understand what you're after
08:58:15  <Alberth> I have 2 images and there different, and I have to merge the differences
08:58:52  <Alberth> git can only say "different", and has a one line description
08:59:11  <Alberth> I need a tool that can show me which precise pixels are different
08:59:14  <andythenorth> is it openttd.png?
08:59:16  <nielsm> try converting to PPM format
08:59:16  <andythenorth> or so?
08:59:21  <nielsm> that's a text-based image format
08:59:29  <Alberth> openttdgui, but fair enough
08:59:36  <andythenorth> can scan pixels with PIL
08:59:48  <andythenorth> I'd use two layers in photoshop, and set them to diff blend
09:00:25  <andythenorth> Alberth: specifically I can fix this one for you, but right now...I am not feeling my best :P
09:00:27  <Alberth> ppm would work
09:01:23  <Alberth> but you'd expect someone has written a hex-dump for images, to convert to text and back
09:01:29  * andythenorth had a small sleep on the bathroom floor, from 1am-3am :|
09:01:43  <Alberth> weird place for a bed andy :)
09:01:51  <andythenorth> I have had worse, and better
09:01:53  <andythenorth> mostly better
09:01:59  <Alberth> :)
09:02:30  <andythenorth> there is a pixascan function in pixa which dumps out pixel values in an array of tuples, but it's "doing it the hard way"
09:03:40  <Alberth>  I have this now, which does the job
09:03:43  <nielsm> would it make sense (for future diffing) to split the spritesheets into single image per sprite?
09:03:46  <nielsm> or smaller sheets at least
09:04:24  <Alberth> yeah, I wondered also why each sprite is not separate
09:04:28  <andythenorth> this spritesheet is the most common source of rebase conflicts
09:04:33  <Alberth> but it's a mess if you have to edit them
09:04:34  <andythenorth> and the tools can't handle it
09:05:02  * andythenorth looks at it
09:06:03  <Alberth> basically you want a set of tools that understands sprite sheets
09:06:52  <Alberth> or failing that, understands some form of "this is a sprite rectangle" description
09:07:19  <andythenorth> like openttd? o_O
09:07:48  <andythenorth> it's trivial-ish to find the blue boxes with PIL
09:08:14  <Alberth> I wrote that too at some point I think
09:08:22  <andythenorth> at least github shows the image
09:08:27  * andythenorth might just eyeball the diff
09:08:39  <Alberth> nope
09:09:05  <Alberth> you'll miss a few pixels
09:10:35  <andythenorth>
09:10:52  <andythenorth> transparent pixels from
09:10:57  <andythenorth> and the NRT UI sprites
09:12:23  <Alberth> yep, 3 pixels in the middle somewhere and the big addition at the bottom
09:14:25  <Alberth> custom image copy will do
09:20:49  <Alberth>
09:22:34  <andythenorth> repeatable rebase :D
09:24:09  <Alberth> not quite, I changed some other files manually :)
09:25:18  * andythenorth wonders about always scripting comple rebases :P
09:25:24  <andythenorth> 'over-engineered' o_O
09:25:29  <andythenorth> complex *
09:25:56  <Alberth> do go near conflicts, and it's perfectly scriptable:   git rebase master
09:26:19  <Alberth> *dont
09:27:32  <Alberth> rewriting the whole thing on top of current master is likely not a bad idea from a technical point of view
09:27:40  <Alberth> the big downside is time
09:28:08  <andythenorth> somebody started a rewrite
09:28:21  <andythenorth> then somebody else said "don't bother, just merge it"
09:28:26  <andythenorth> but eh :)
09:30:48  <Alberth> one commit for entire nrt is never going to be accepted I think
09:31:52  <Alberth> but 2 source files left, so looking good
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09:34:53  <andythenorth> TB and peter both seemed happy with one big commit
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09:35:03  <andythenorth> just got stuck on '64 types or not'
09:35:25  <andythenorth> to which the answer is 'of course 64, why are we discussing this' :D
09:35:36  * andythenorth wonders how TrueBrain is today
09:41:40  <Alberth>   any idea how to resolved this?
09:42:14  <Alberth> compatible_roadtypes  in master  vs   rtid.basetype in nrt
09:43:25  <Alberth> hmm, should check what nrt modified I guess
09:45:24  <Alberth> right, nrt wins here
09:46:25  * andythenorth has been learning how to draw
09:46:51  <andythenorth> rtid wins
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09:49:45  <Alberth> quite subtle changes
09:52:04  <Alberth>  this one is very "oh dear"
09:58:53  <andythenorth> yes :(
09:59:08  <andythenorth> but NRT savegames don't need preserved
09:59:37  <andythenorth> stuff like this is always a problem for long-running forks
10:00:07  <andythenorth> maybe all savegames should be on the blockchain
10:00:34  <Alberth> savegame number 999 would have been much easier here :)
10:00:50  <andythenorth> yes
10:01:07  <Alberth> ah well, let's hope not too many magic 201s
10:01:12  <andythenorth> then it would have got reviewed as 'pls change the savegame number, it's silly' :D
10:02:01  <Alberth> well, until that point, it's quite useful to avoid conflicts with default openttd :)
10:02:40  * andythenorth might risk breakfast
10:02:44  <Alberth> hmm, maybe change them to constanys,,, :p
10:02:44  <andythenorth> living dangerous
10:03:09  <Alberth> made some warm toast just now, want one?
10:03:45  <andythenorth> might not be warm when it arrives
10:06:22  <nielsm> hmm, wonder if I should make a thread for my Winter Wonderland project...
10:07:06  <Alberth> yes
10:07:24  <nielsm> and recruit some help painting new art for all the wanted things :)
10:07:42  <Alberth> there is a whole lot of language changes in translated languages, what happened there?
10:15:35  <andythenorth> between NRT and master?
10:15:56  <andythenorth> could you paste a diff?
10:16:07  <andythenorth> nielsm: pixels eh? I might have to hide
10:16:50  <andythenorth>
10:17:31  <andythenorth> does everyone in Denmark get a free Lego set at Christmas?
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10:22:25  <nielsm> haha no
10:22:52  <andythenorth> what kind of sprites do you want?  Toyland-ish?
10:23:53  <nielsm> no realistic-ish
10:24:05  <nielsm> more akin to larger-than-life christmas films
10:24:23  <andythenorth>
10:24:44  <andythenorth> glitter factory :P
10:25:07  <nielsm> okay there's a bit of magic involved ;)
10:25:22  <andythenorth>
10:25:30  <andythenorth> is glitter mined? o_O
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10:25:47  <andythenorth> christmas tree farm?
10:26:00  <nielsm> right now it's described as condensed from the sparkly winter night
10:26:09  <andythenorth> I always fancied this for a wooden toy factory
10:26:17  <Alberth>
10:26:27  <andythenorth> this literally already is a reindeer farm
10:27:32  <andythenorth> Alberth: wondering if NRT disallowed road/tram crossings, so maybe it splits the string
10:27:37  <andythenorth> @seen wolf01
10:27:37  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: wolf01 was last seen in #openttd 10 hours, 27 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <Wolf01> Happy new year GMT users!
10:27:44  <nielsm> I'm thinking there should also be a candy canes production chain, probably something simple
10:27:53  <andythenorth> toyland already has one? o_O
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10:28:06  <nielsm> toyland has a Sweets chain yes
10:29:10  <nielsm> candyfloss/toffee/suger => sweet factory => houses
10:29:14  <nielsm> sugar*
10:31:00  <andythenorth> candy cane producer :P
10:31:03  <Alberth> oh toffee quarry, such an annoying noise :p
10:31:05  <nielsm> maybe have a Candy Well that pumps boiling candy mass up from the underground, which has to be shipped express (before solidifying) to the candy cane twister
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10:32:05  <Alberth> open wagon with bubbling liquid candy cane
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10:34:38  <Wolf01> o/
10:35:28  <andythenorth> summoned
10:35:49  <andythenorth> nielsm: it's outrageous, you'll want cargo support from train sets next :P
10:35:58  <andythenorth> industry set authors are the worst :(
10:36:24  <Wolf01> NRT heh
10:36:36  <nielsm> :D
10:37:18  <Wolf01> IIRC there was a way to disallow tram over road on the same direction, but we decided to let the tram cross the road
10:37:43  <nielsm> my intention is to include a minimal vehicle set that supports the cargo types, with part of the idea being that there should not be a tech progression in vehicles at all
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10:39:53  <nielsm> by the way, any chance of this one getting approved? :D
10:40:57  <andythenorth> oh why did I remove the label?
10:41:15  <andythenorth> user error
10:51:50  <nielsm> boiling candy, measured by volume or weight?
10:56:36  <andythenorth> corn syrup is done by volume
10:56:42  * andythenorth looking for molten steel unit ;P
10:57:15  <Alberth>   :o
10:59:15  <nielsm> woah
10:59:23  <andythenorth> oof that confused me :)
10:59:29  <andythenorth> I thought someone had already merged it
10:59:34  <andythenorth> I would feel bad if that was the case
10:59:35  <Wolf01> Mmmh, I must lego
11:01:15  <Alberth> more arm wrestling today eh?
11:01:34  <Wolf01> Yes
11:02:16  <nielsm>
11:02:25  <nielsm> some typos in strings
11:02:30  <Wolf01> I must get the mechanics to work, I have only 2 months for refinements
11:02:55  <andythenorth> cane twister :)
11:03:02  <andythenorth> a long thin industry :P
11:05:06  <Alberth> candy wells would be too easy?
11:05:43  <Alberth> btw you can drive on frozen water :)
11:09:56  <Alberth> andy: late christmas present:
11:10:58  <Alberth> it compiles with some string problems in the translations, and an unused variable
11:11:45  <andythenorth> :)
11:11:57  <Alberth> I completely deleted two translation change sets, due to conflicts, not sure which one they were but they are findable by trying to merge again
11:13:45  <andythenorth> oof I merged upstream/master instead of rebasing
11:13:50  * andythenorth is such a git fool
11:14:10  <andythenorth> was trying to sync my fork before updating the NRT PR
11:14:19  <Alberth> you only merge --ff   :p
11:14:44  <andythenorth> I haven't pushed, I'll delete my repo
11:15:19  <Alberth> just reset the references to their old place
11:16:27  <andythenorth> done
11:19:13  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
11:19:22  <andythenorth> Wolf01: ^ NRT is back
11:20:22  <andythenorth> let's see if it builds
11:20:27  <Wolf01> Nice, I could port the old branches to a new clone of it
11:21:02  <Wolf01> On the latest builds I couldn't even try it, it didn't load the grfs, any of them
11:22:14  <Alberth> maybe making a diff from the old nrt to master and a diff from the merged nrt to master, and compare them?
11:23:20  <Alberth> ie check what each version adds, it should be the same or explainable different
11:26:09  * andythenorth wonders how to feel better
11:26:19  <SpComb> alcohol?
11:26:19  <Alberth> eat a cookie
11:26:38  <andythenorth> the only think I want are eggs
11:26:41  <andythenorth> and there are none here
11:27:23  <Alberth> restaurant?
11:27:48  <Alberth> all closed I guess
11:28:44  <andythenorth> shop
11:28:53  <Borg> andythenorth: play OpenTTD !!
11:28:57  <Borg> :)
11:29:03  <andythenorth> oof
11:42:13  <andythenorth> oh maybe CF isn't building yet
11:42:19  <andythenorth> mumble mumble azure triggers
11:42:32  <andythenorth> I can't trivially build locally :P
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11:44:43  <andythenorth> I have to make another branch with 6917 and NRT merged together :P
11:44:54  <andythenorth> and remember to not merge that to NRT
11:45:06  <andythenorth> programming is mostly bureaucracy :)
11:46:05  <nielsm> hmm, I need to fix something here, helicopters and ships can't carry sweaters
11:47:43  <andythenorth> NRT built :D
11:47:46  <planetmaker> moin moin
11:50:52  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
11:51:27  <andythenorth> NRT for April 1? o_O
11:53:03  <andythenorth> nielsm: so will your industries use all the cbs that need 16 cargo support? o_O
11:53:25  <nielsm> that's what I'm doing right now, although it's not necessary
12:06:32  <nielsm> hm how do you make an industry layout for a water based industry, that gets the dock/heliport station?
12:06:49  <planetmaker> that is a specific tile type which you need to use
12:06:54  <planetmaker> tileID
12:07:44  <planetmaker> basically you need to re-use the original tileID from the oil rig
12:08:00  <andythenorth> FEh or something
12:08:03  * andythenorth looks
12:08:31  <planetmaker> firs harbour will know :P
12:08:44  <andythenorth> seems to be tile 24
12:08:49  <andythenorth> has to be very specifically place
12:08:51  <andythenorth> placed *
12:09:05  <planetmaker> 0xFE or 0xFF was 'needs to be clear' or sth similar
12:11:08  <andythenorth> yeah 18h
12:11:10  <planetmaker> <-- ha, even wiki doesn't exactly have it :|
12:11:13  <andythenorth> 24d
12:11:49  <andythenorth> placed in the same y column, on adjacent x rows
12:13:47  <nielsm>  <- this one doesn't give me the station, I need to place more than one 0x18 ?
12:18:24  <planetmaker> is it 0x18, not 0x1C?
12:18:43  <planetmaker> or 0x1A? I need to check :D
12:22:28  <planetmaker> meh, how do I get oil rigs without NewGRFs? :D
12:22:40  <nielsm> year past 1960
12:23:08  <andythenorth> it's 2 0x18
12:23:19  <andythenorth> in same y column, adjacent x rows
12:23:57  <planetmaker> I only get oil wells :|
12:24:03  <andythenorth> fund one
12:25:03  <nielsm> yay
12:25:15  <planetmaker> stupid me. Of course funding :)
12:25:37  <andythenorth> nice
12:25:39  <andythenorth> sea mine
12:26:25  <nielsm> graphics die when I override the industrytile
12:27:48  <planetmaker> yes.... the handling of that tile property certainly could be improved in OpenTTD
12:28:02  <planetmaker> But I assume it's a bin of worms
12:28:51  <planetmaker> as it includes stations and stuff
12:30:41  <nielsm> what format should nearby_station_name be in, just a {STRING} for the town name or what?
12:30:46  <nielsm> (industry prop)
12:31:11  <nielsm> looks like that workd
12:31:25  <nielsm>
12:32:13  <andythenorth> just a string
12:32:14  <andythenorth> yes
12:33:48  <andythenorth> planetmaker: is this something you could review? o_O
12:33:51  * andythenorth can't :|
12:34:01  <andythenorth> I would miss something :P
12:34:37  <planetmaker> I do fear the same. But can give it a shot
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12:42:00  <nielsm> eh, nmlc doesn't warn me about multiple cargo types with identical ID
12:44:39  <planetmaker> the later definition overwrites the first, I assume
12:45:21  <planetmaker> the reason is that it is allowed to have different carog(ID) { property: bla} blocks which each add different properties to the same cargo
12:45:31  <planetmaker> which you can do for every feature
12:45:36  <nielsm> some more station names :P
12:47:34  <planetmaker> toyland! :)
12:47:45  <planetmaker> what kind of industries do you work on?
12:48:05  <nielsm>
12:48:35  <planetmaker> cool :)
12:49:50  <planetmaker> I think my favourite is the "stardust collector" :)
12:50:16  <nielsm> I'm open to suggestions for how to make the rest a bit more magical too
12:52:11  <nielsm> pack of current version:
12:52:46  <nielsm> (requires patched nml to compile, since I'm using the new syntax for industry cargo_types and produce cb
12:58:57  <planetmaker> I have coal mins in the sea :D
12:59:08  <nielsm> graphics is pretty broken atm ;)
13:00:04  <planetmaker> (butcher, candy drill). But sure, that's the default for unavailable graphics. Expected for WIP
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13:12:51  <andythenorth> oof, this thread is dangerous for Horse
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13:30:21  <Alberth> :)
13:40:54  <andythenorth> meh
13:40:55  <andythenorth> photoshop has lost the filesystem refs for the current open files
13:40:55  <andythenorth> and it's drawing error artefacts
13:43:16  <nielsm> ...why is it not disabling all the default trains
13:43:18  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy updated pull request #7005: Fix #7004: Redraw linkgraph overlay correctly after zoom
13:46:45  <andythenorth> nielsm: have you set them all to disable? o_O
13:46:45  * andythenorth asks the obvious
13:47:24  <nielsm> disable_item(FEAT_TRAINS, 0, 115); -- yet
13:47:37  <nielsm> (the crossed out are the ones I expected to be gone)
13:48:09  <andythenorth> ?
13:48:22  <Eddi|zuHause> more than one newgrf loaded?
13:48:28  <nielsm> ah yes...
13:48:33  <nielsm> thanks Eddi|zuHause
13:49:05  <nielsm> now I get what I expected :)
13:50:04  <nielsm> I did have "old wagons new cargoes" loaded, forgot about it since it didn't actually do anything in toyland
13:50:09  <nielsm> except just re-enable everything
14:02:09  <planetmaker> nielsm, you need to explicitly disable them all
14:02:16  <planetmaker> hm
14:02:23  <planetmaker> you seem to hav done so
14:04:14  <nielsm> yes it was as eddi suggested, I had another grf loaded that "broke" things
14:05:23  <planetmaker> I was just slow in reading-back :)
14:09:02  <nielsm>
14:09:07  <nielsm> wooh
14:09:16  <nielsm> graphics so broken here too :D
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14:32:14  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker commented on pull request #6872: Add: Houses can accept up to 16 different cargo types via NewGRF
14:34:56  <planetmaker>  hm... I think I missed sth
14:35:34  <planetmaker> CB 2A/2C needs some extension or replacement. Or is there?
14:36:28  <planetmaker> and 2E
14:36:48  <planetmaker> though... no, 2E should be fine
14:39:26  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #6872: Add: Houses can accept up to 16 different cargo types via NewGRF
14:41:41  <planetmaker> nielsm, NUM_CARGO is of type CargoID. So I disagree with your disagreement
14:41:53  <V453000> Happy new year yo!
14:41:55  <planetmaker> cargo_type.h:66
14:41:59  <planetmaker> happy new year :)
14:42:03  <V453000> :0 pm alive
14:42:06  <V453000> hi :)
14:42:37  <nielsm> planetmaker, that's the highest allowed CargoID value
14:42:42  <planetmaker> hey :) how're you? :)
14:43:07  <nielsm> that's different from the number of slots for CargoID values that can be accepted by a tile
14:43:09  <planetmaker> nielsm, and you can never accept more cargoes than there are cargoes
14:43:28  <andythenorth> V453000: alive :o
14:44:20  <V453000> I'm great, but Factorio has completely consumed my life. :D I don't even log into IRC anymore :( which is a bit sad, but I'm here now! :D How is OpenTTD and you?
14:45:30  <Samu> I can create hierarchy groups
14:45:42  <Samu> but can't undo it
14:45:55  <Samu> is that intended?
14:46:31  <planetmaker> nielsm, and from comparison, stuff seems to be handled similar in e.g. industries_type.h has no const ints or so for numbers
14:46:36  <planetmaker> which define maximumsx
14:46:38  <Samu> and AIs don't seem to have access to this hierarchy feature
14:47:32  <planetmaker> on your argument it uses int for NUM_INPUTS and OUTPUTS...
14:54:58  <planetmaker> but it should be an uint constant, I think :) anyway... does that CB for accepted cargoes need modification? Or... is it not necessary?
15:06:20  <Samu> uhm, my aircaft management is creating too many empty groups :(
15:08:20  <planetmaker> one group per route you service. And add new vehicles to that group via shared orders when it needs more vehicles
15:08:21  <andythenorth> V453000: should we find you on Slack? o_O
15:09:57  <Samu> emtpy groups belong to no route, this is the problem
15:10:07  <V453000> we do use that weird thing at work, but I got quite used to using Discord for Factorio, but I'll try to come here more often :)
15:10:30  <Samu> which means i need to do what LuDi has done to road routes
15:10:31  <planetmaker> there are discord2irc bridges available. So I am told
15:10:37  <andythenorth> I never used Discord, but I probably should
15:10:42  <andythenorth> push-to-talk seems winningest
15:11:13  <Samu> an array of routes with all the variables
15:11:21  <V453000> :0
15:11:39  <Samu> properties
15:11:50  <planetmaker> I never got enough patience to checkout any discord2IRC bridge myself, though
15:13:16  <TrueBrain> we switching to Discord you say? :P
15:13:21  <TrueBrain> Slack is also fine by me
15:13:22  <andythenorth> uh oh
15:13:24  <andythenorth> it's TB
15:13:24  <TrueBrain> both are prepared :P
15:13:27  <TrueBrain> just say the word!
15:13:33  <TrueBrain> happy new year all :)
15:13:34  <Eddi|zuHause> we should totally switch the forum over to steam community pages!
15:13:40  <andythenorth> HNY TB
15:13:47  <andythenorth> what music shall I listen to next?
15:13:52  <andythenorth> there may be a hangover
15:13:52  <planetmaker> we should have openttd on steam tbh
15:13:55  <TrueBrain> Teletubbies
15:15:21  <TrueBrain> I wonder what is needed to create a new release ..
15:15:55  <planetmaker> do we have normal builds?
15:16:38  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7002: Add: [Win32] regression testing with MSVC
15:17:16  <TrueBrain> "normal" :P
15:17:21  <planetmaker> nightly
15:17:23  <TrueBrain> no
15:19:48  <planetmaker> <-- I find this diff ;)
15:20:10  <TrueBrain> there are a lot of things we need to explore .. how to do 'release' branching in git(hub)
15:20:20  <TrueBrain> how are we going to do the tags, etc
15:20:26  <TrueBrain> we need a release pipeline
15:20:30  <planetmaker> yep... uncharted territory
15:20:30  <TrueBrain> a place to store the resulting binaries
15:20:43  <TrueBrain> hmm .. quiet a few things that need to be 'fixed' I guess
15:20:48  <planetmaker> you don't want for that anymore?
15:20:57  <TrueBrain> I do, but not the old infrastructure if possible
15:21:05  <planetmaker> btw... we got a bill from digital ocean today
15:21:09  <TrueBrain> yup
15:21:20  <TrueBrain> auto-paid via CC
15:21:45  <planetmaker> I find it interesting that they set the due date to the date of issuing the bill
15:22:14  <TrueBrain> didnt notice ;) Guess that is because it is paid via CC?
15:23:31  <Samu> LuDi was right!
15:23:41  <Samu> that guy was an expert
15:24:31  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: btw, these emails with the bill will arrive every month now
15:24:33  <Samu> only needed 1 version to have the right management code
15:24:52  <planetmaker> I figured as much ;)
15:25:12  <TrueBrain> hmm .. should we also publish our binaries on GitHub under releases?
15:25:22  <TrueBrain> the more places we put stuff, the harder it is to track download numbers
15:25:33  <TrueBrain> but .. is that really something we need to track
15:25:55  <TrueBrain> we know millions of people play OpenTTD .. not sure that metric is still relevant :)
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15:26:03  <planetmaker> I really would like a pipeline to steam. I think that would give us definitely some extra audience
15:26:09  <planetmaker> and make it easy for folks to update
15:26:32  <TrueBrain> possibly also good to look into Epic Games Launcher too
15:26:47  <TrueBrain> and Windows Store is already done
15:26:55  <TrueBrain> but itmight be good that we document that a bit better
15:27:06  <TrueBrain> as I am not sure how many people know how to publish a new version on Windows Store
15:27:15  <planetmaker> 1?
15:27:33  <planetmaker> I think we have a wiki for that purpose which could document it. Minus the credentials
15:27:43  <TrueBrain> any place would be a good place :D
15:27:52  <planetmaker> everyone knows wiki
15:27:56  <TrueBrain> for me, the wiki has become one big noise-box
15:28:01  <TrueBrain> I dont trust any information on it :D
15:28:24  <TrueBrain> pretty sure a lot of information is out-dated :)
15:28:30  <planetmaker> don't need to. But this stuff would be ideal there
15:28:43  <planetmaker> I wouldn't trust any other info either to (still) work
15:28:47  <TrueBrain> at least a markdown page telling what steps to take :P
15:28:50  <planetmaker> same problem, different place(s)
15:28:55  <TrueBrain> either way, documented somewhere public
15:28:58  <TrueBrain> I guess we agree on that :D
15:29:02  <planetmaker> ^^
15:29:16  <TrueBrain> so, who wants to figure out Steam, Epic, document Windows Store, etc?
15:29:18  <planetmaker> and easily updated -> wiki :)
15:29:42  <Samu> openttd on steam? omg nooo
15:29:47  <planetmaker> hm... I'm reluctant to make promises I might not be able to keep :D
15:29:55  <TrueBrain> if you really want to continue this talk: the world moved away from wikis in general; I wonder if it is the proper place for procedures :)
15:30:06  <planetmaker> did it?
15:30:07  <TrueBrain> might be good to have a repository for these kind of things, simply listing how to do shit
15:30:24  <planetmaker> but yes, could be in our OpentTD repo, too
15:30:35  <TrueBrain> lot of modern projects have a 'doc' repository
15:30:40  <TrueBrain> where people contribute their stuff
15:30:40  <planetmaker> just add another directory for extended documentation and ... ^
15:30:41  <TrueBrain> (via PRs)
15:30:45  <TrueBrain> pretty modern :)
15:31:05  <planetmaker> advantage: everything in one place. Agreed
15:31:05  <TrueBrain> issue with wikis, as it turned out, you cannot trust the information :P
15:31:33  <TrueBrain> its funny how things change over time :D
15:32:59  <Samu> path of exile uses gamepedia
15:33:10  <andythenorth> I like docs in repos
15:33:16  <TrueBrain> gameplay manuals are fine as a wiki
15:33:19  <Samu> i think it can extract most things from the game via API
15:33:21  <TrueBrain> procedures ... not so much :D
15:33:37  <andythenorth> docs is one of those perennial issues, like formatting :P
15:33:54  <TrueBrain> either way, I like the idea planetmaker, more exposure
15:33:58  <andythenorth> but I prefer version controlled docs, with clear history
15:34:05  <TrueBrain> so in that care publishing the files on GitHub is also a good idea
15:34:14  <TrueBrain> s/care/case
15:34:29  <planetmaker> andythenorth, we agreed on: add it to repo :P
15:34:40  <planetmaker> however wikis have history, too ;)
15:34:43  <TrueBrain> DigitalOcean has 'spaces', which is just a fancy CDN :)
15:34:44  <planetmaker> but more hassle
15:34:51  <TrueBrain> guess we can use that as primary hub
15:34:53  <planetmaker> "agreed upon" :P
15:35:05  <andythenorth> shall I update the wiki to say that docs should not go in wiki? o_O
15:35:17  <TrueBrain> lets first build the alternative ;)
15:35:19  <andythenorth> oof
15:35:33  <andythenorth> we only had a few non-conformities for ISO 27001
15:35:35  <planetmaker> not yet
15:35:36  <andythenorth> the funny one was
15:35:43  <andythenorth> we changed the change control process
15:35:49  <andythenorth> but we didn't have change control for that change
15:35:56  <TrueBrain> (like EVERYONE here knows what ISO 27001 is about :P)
15:36:11  <andythenorth> I am talking to an audience of 1 or 2
15:36:12  <andythenorth> :P
15:36:15  <planetmaker> of course :P
15:36:18  <TrueBrain> :D
15:36:50  <andythenorth> our auditor has special skills to find the thing we did wrong :P
15:37:00  <TrueBrain> its the reason his job exists
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15:37:26  <andythenorth> her *
15:37:29  <andythenorth> but yeah
15:37:30  <TrueBrain> okay .. so the main thing I am missing for a new release (or nightlies for that matter), is a pipeline, and a webpage which helps you find the download
15:37:56  <TrueBrain> pipeline is pretty easy; more a matter of figuring out
15:37:58  <andythenorth> webpage needs some process?
15:38:10  <andythenorth> we can't just code-generate a jekyll page?
15:38:18  <TrueBrain> hmm
15:38:19  <TrueBrain> interesting
15:38:25  <TrueBrain> for some reason I did not consider that
15:38:28  <andythenorth> I mean we could run some wsgi app thing
15:38:37  <TrueBrain> no no, static pages are better :P
15:38:37  <andythenorth> or we could template jekyll templates :P
15:38:46  <Samu> openttd launcher
15:38:46  <andythenorth> templating templates is such fun :P
15:38:49  <TrueBrain> we have at most 1 release per day
15:38:54  <TrueBrain> euh, 2 releases per day
15:38:55  <TrueBrain> nightly + release
15:39:05  <TrueBrain> so yeah, that can be static
15:39:14  <andythenorth> use some dumb text replacement to inject vars to the jekyll pages
15:39:22  <TrueBrain> we just need "something" to parse some "structure" to know what exists
15:39:22  <andythenorth> or maybe it even supports injection at run time
15:39:38  <TrueBrain> we can just make a script that creates a collection
15:39:45  <TrueBrain> after that, run jekyll
15:39:48  <TrueBrain> I mean, that part is pretty easy
15:39:54  <andythenorth> this starts to look plausible
15:40:28  <andythenorth> maybe not
15:40:31  <andythenorth> I misread it
15:40:38  <TrueBrain> also kinda is a solution for 'website', just generate a new version every night
15:40:53  <TrueBrain> the only reason I wanted to avoid that, is because we store it on, and you cannot set a "retention" there
15:40:59  <TrueBrain> which means A LOT of dockers over time :P
15:41:14  <TrueBrain> s/dockers/containers
15:41:38  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: my assumption is we need to get some data into Jekyll for links etc?
15:41:51  <TrueBrain> yeah, if we have a script that creates the collection
15:41:52  <andythenorth> but do we publish binaries to a predictable naming format?
15:42:17  <TrueBrain> yes; we have two things in place for that
15:42:18  <TrueBrain>
15:42:32  <TrueBrain>
15:42:42  <andythenorth> we'd need the rev number / hash / MD5 etc though hmm
15:42:46  <TrueBrain> both allow any form of scripting to build everything we need
15:42:50  <andythenorth> ok so Jekyll has all these hooks
15:43:03  <TrueBrain> again, we can do this before jekyll :)
15:43:06  <andythenorth> I was trying to shortcut by constructing predictable URLs in the template but nvm
15:43:06  <planetmaker> it's amazing what Valve wants to know when you try to register a dev account :D
15:43:34  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I don't follow?
15:43:50  <TrueBrain> I was thinking just to create pages like 'screenshots' .. just not commited in git, but autogenerated on build?
15:43:51  <andythenorth> it's fine, just trying to get my head around what's needed
15:44:11  <TrueBrain> you have another suggestion that also works?
15:44:15  <TrueBrain> (anything goes)
15:44:27  <andythenorth> no, the collections idea is straightforward
15:44:42  <andythenorth> injecting vars to jekyll is a sideshow, I just got distracted
15:44:51  <TrueBrain> :D
15:45:02  <TrueBrain> the only downside of "my" idea, is that it needs creating a container a lot and often
15:45:41  <TrueBrain> the same 'git' version will result in different containers
15:45:46  <TrueBrain> which is a bit of an anti-pattern
15:48:09  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: lately I have been using info@ btw for any account signup (and only linked truebrain@ when they had "team" support after that)
15:48:20  <TrueBrain> (hence the increased amount of emails in info@ from all kinds of companies :P)
15:48:26  <planetmaker> good practice, I say :)
15:48:34  <TrueBrain> I thought so too ;)
15:49:08  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: if we do a collection, it does solve the whole website problem, the remaining CABBAGES, not?
15:49:21  <andythenorth> I reckon so
15:49:27  <TrueBrain> (with the exception of server-listing)
15:49:42  <TrueBrain> so all I need to do, is figure out how to do this properly with the Docker Hub
15:52:01  <TrueBrain> the collection  has to be 2D: projects / versions
15:52:13  <TrueBrain> as we also list downloads for stuff like opengfx, etc
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15:52:56  <TrueBrain> we used to offer URLs to make it easier to download specific versions
15:52:59  <TrueBrain> I wonder how useful that is
15:53:21  <planetmaker> yep... OpenTTD, OpenGFX, OpenSFX, OpenMSX, grfcodec, nmlc(?), osie(?), strgen(?)
15:53:32  <planetmaker> I find it VERY useful to access older versions via direct URL
15:53:52  <TrueBrain> you can always access them via the CDN, that is not the issue
15:54:02  <TrueBrain>
15:54:04  <TrueBrain> I mean that URL
15:54:07  <TrueBrain> how useful is thatone?
15:54:28  <planetmaker> yes, I mean that. It's useful for auto-updaters or so. For people who need specific versions for specific servers or so
15:54:42  <planetmaker> it would break any auto-download or linking from servers to their required versions
15:54:58  <TrueBrain> I dont see how it breaks auto-downloads, as they should never touch that URL
15:55:03  <TrueBrain> we have different things for them in place
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15:55:10  <TrueBrain> servers linking to versions I agree with
15:55:27  <TrueBrain> I guess that makes the main question if that should also work for nightlies
15:55:40  <planetmaker> especially there it makes also sense
15:55:53  <planetmaker> no worries it the URL breaks when the download is gone
15:56:55  <TrueBrain> so how long are we going to keep nightlies?
15:57:04  <planetmaker> 3 month?
15:57:11  <planetmaker> 2? 1?
15:57:23  <TrueBrain> as long as we are fine with a preset amount, it is not an issue
15:57:31  <TrueBrain> otherwise the collection will be HUGE :P
15:57:42  <TrueBrain> okay, indeed, there are hits on specific versions
15:57:46  <TrueBrain> (was looking in the access logs)
15:57:49  <TrueBrain> 1 in 20 orso
15:58:07  <TrueBrain> crawlers mostly :D
15:58:12  <planetmaker> we never kept all nightlies. They were gone after some time
15:58:38  <planetmaker> maybe 90 versions
15:58:40  <TrueBrain> yeah, 90d "officially" .. but it meant: 90+Nd, depending how lazy I am to run the script
15:58:53  <TrueBrain> and I only run the script if we ran out of space on mirrors
15:59:00  <TrueBrain> which we never do anymore, as I only mirror the latest version
15:59:07  <TrueBrain> but as the CDN allows us to have any version available
15:59:23  <TrueBrain> 250GB of storage
15:59:28  <TrueBrain> so yeah .. 90d fits fine
15:59:42  <TrueBrain> 90 versions might indeed be better
15:59:42  <TrueBrain> k
16:00:11  <TrueBrain> so that means that whenever we release something, either a nightly, a release, or anything else we offer a download page for, we need to trigger a new build of 'website'
16:00:15  <TrueBrain> that is easy enough tbh
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16:01:01  <TrueBrain> okay, that makes a lot of things a lot easier
16:01:17  <TrueBrain> (I was about to write a dynamic application to do this ... but this is a much better idea; nice thinking andythenorth :D)
16:01:35  <andythenorth> because I can't program
16:01:55  <andythenorth> I often have to find low-code ways to do stuff :P
16:02:59  <TrueBrain> Docker Hub has no retention policy what I can find
16:03:06  <TrueBrain> so ... we need to have something that cleans up once in a while
16:03:10  <TrueBrain> just to be a good neighbour
16:04:33  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: I am curious if we can automate Steam .. having a new nightly there every night might be valuable .. but if it is manual ... :D
16:05:00  <TrueBrain> 0.5.2	2015-04-12	extra/opengfx <- how old is opengfx? :P
16:05:06  <TrueBrain> (2015-04-12)
16:05:06  <TrueBrain> damn
16:05:14  <TrueBrain> we also have to make repositories for a few of these things, I see
16:05:46  <TrueBrain> and a new finger format ..
16:06:09  <TrueBrain> asking questions for the fact of asking questions: do we want to offer these download URLs for patchpacks too on ?
16:16:27  <TrueBrain> the silence is killing! :P
16:16:39  *** Mahjong has joined #openttd
16:21:15  <TrueBrain> right, lets first wrap around our current infrastructure; we can extend later :)
16:21:28  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: what are the odds that if I make the collection available, you can make the pages that come with them? :P
16:21:48  <TrueBrain> first, food!
16:22:30  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: some
16:22:37  <andythenorth> less CABBAGE
16:22:51  <andythenorth> I was sick for like 1 hour in the night time though :P
16:22:59  <andythenorth> self inflicted
16:24:03  <andythenorth> hmm
16:24:06  <andythenorth> liveries per train? o_O
16:39:18  <Samu> i found a bug
16:40:03  <Samu>
16:40:22  <Samu> it says it's not a drive through road station tile
16:40:31  <Samu> but it is
16:40:57  <Samu> @calc 0x10345
16:40:58  <DorpsGek> Samu: 66373
16:41:31  <Samu> seems to happen only during savegame load
16:41:45  <Samu> or script load
16:42:37  <Samu> or maybe not, as i seem to repeat the code even after the load
16:42:50  <Samu> would still say it's not a drive through road station tile
16:43:37  <Samu> must investigate
16:47:15  <andythenorth> this is why I wanted liveries per vehicle group :D
16:48:15  <Samu> - this is when i restarted the AI, now it says it's articulated viable, because it just built it
16:48:31  <Samu> seems to be the savegame being corrupted?
16:48:37  <Samu> or not storing the correct information?
16:49:19  <Samu> this is 1.8.0 btw
16:55:15  <Samu> ah sheesh, false alarm, seems to be the wrong road type information
16:55:29  <Samu> it's trying to look for tram for some reason
16:56:10  <Samu> good thing I investigated
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17:00:24  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, I'm curious as to that, too.
17:00:32  <planetmaker> (whether steam can be automated)
17:00:34  <Samu> problem solved, that was it
17:00:53  <Samu> AIRoad.SetCurrentRoadType(AIRoad.ROADTYPE_ROAD);
17:01:02  <planetmaker> I looked around there some weeks ago in order to investigate. I wasn't exactly successful in finding out... but I got the impression that it should be feasible
17:01:41  <planetmaker> I guess I got to register an account for OpenTTD there... But the problem is... before you actually can do anything, you gotta pay a one-off fee... or so it seems.
17:01:52  <planetmaker> which is 100$ IIRC
17:02:43  *** Gabda has joined #openttd
17:03:03  <Gabda> hi!
17:04:06  <Gabda> is there an easy way to checkout a PR from github without adding the commiter's repo as a new remote?
17:04:17  <nielsm> as far as I know, no
17:04:51  <Gabda> it was a fast and disappointing answer :(
17:05:16  *** Progman has quit IRC
17:07:57  <planetmaker> doesn't simply work git fetch URL?
17:14:10  <Gabda> it doesn't, it says it couldn't find the remote
17:17:00  <Gabda> ok, I found an easy way, it is possible without adding a new remote
17:17:35  <LordAro>
17:17:41  <LordAro> google is hard
17:17:53  <LordAro> ;l
17:17:56  <LordAro> ;)*
17:19:04  <Gabda> i found this one as well, but I was looking for the "active" part, but couldn't see that anywhere
17:19:21  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek-github] pyup-bot opened pull request #21: Scheduled monthly dependency update for January
17:19:24  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek-github] pyup-bot commented on pull request #20: Scheduled monthly dependency update for December
17:19:25  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek-github] pyup-bot closed pull request #20: Scheduled monthly dependency update for December
17:19:36  <Gabda> but the "inactive" part works well :)
17:19:36  <LordAro> ono
17:20:16  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek-irc] pyup-bot opened pull request #17: Scheduled monthly dependency update for January
17:20:19  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek-irc] pyup-bot commented on pull request #16: Scheduled monthly dependency update for December
17:20:20  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek-irc] pyup-bot closed pull request #16: Scheduled monthly dependency update for December
17:21:15  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek-runner] pyup-bot opened pull request #12: Scheduled monthly dependency update for January
17:21:18  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek-runner] pyup-bot commented on pull request #11: Scheduled monthly dependency update for December
17:21:19  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek-runner] pyup-bot closed pull request #11: Scheduled monthly dependency update for December
17:21:39  <Eddi|zuHause> scheduled monthly spam
17:25:21  <LordAro> mhmm
17:25:32  <LordAro> TB should do something about them :p
17:37:35  <TrueBrain> the only thing I am going to do about it, is enjoy them :D
17:38:21  <TrueBrain> bah, new libarary
17:38:26  <TrueBrain> this takes more effort :P
17:39:27  <LordAro> :p
17:42:44  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gabda87 commented on issue #6438: raising/lowering 'Maximum no. competitors' setting in multiplayer
17:45:09  <Samu> oh, a comment on my issue
17:45:39  <Samu> cool stuff
17:46:15  <Samu> meanwhile I'm waiting for the ai to reach 5000 road vehicles
17:46:16  <Gabda> it is a nice issue, and easy to reproduce
17:46:52  <Gabda> and I think a deep one
17:50:00  <Samu> testing eGRVTS v2.0 - r188 with my ai
17:50:06  <Samu> started in year 1700
17:50:09  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gabda87 commented on pull request #7003: Feature #6918: Add option to adjust font size separately from GUI size.
17:50:43  <Samu> the "25 road vehicles per route" rule is bad with this newgrf
17:56:39  <Samu> it's averaging 38-42 per route when i leave it in auto
17:57:38  <andythenorth> Wolf01: finished it already? :o
18:17:59  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, so, from our friends from wesnoth: steam offers a command line client which of course can be used in scripts. So automatic upload is possible
18:25:56  <TrueBrain> who is wesnoth?
18:25:58  <TrueBrain> but that is good news :)
18:27:13  <TrueBrain> now how to build this collection .. hmm .. difficult
18:30:18  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: btw, I dont see an issue with that 100 dollar if it is a one-time fee .. something orudge should be able to arrange :)
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18:36:34  <planetmaker> Probably the nicest-looking strategy game there is
18:36:56  <planetmaker> and probably with the biggest community. Bigger than ours. Speaking of open source
18:38:22  <TrueBrain> never saw that name before :D
18:38:24  <TrueBrain> sorry :P
18:39:11  <TrueBrain> so a community to look how to do things, you say ... :D
18:39:34  <planetmaker> concerning the 100$: I agree. But it has to be agreed-upon :) And indeed I say that :P Or at least a look doesn't hurt
18:39:46  <planetmaker> We play in the same league, so might learn from eachother
18:40:05  <Borg> how I can get current quater value?
18:40:35  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7002: Add: [Win32] regression testing with MSVC
18:41:37  <planetmaker> value of what?
18:43:24  <Borg> current quater number..
18:43:38  <Borg> first one is 0 probably
18:43:57  <Borg> yeah.. I can calculate it myself teoretically..
18:44:06  <planetmaker> eh... we have quarters anywhere?
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18:44:25  <Borg> static Money GSCompany::GetQuarterlyCompanyValue
18:44:29  <Borg> here for example
18:44:36  <Borg> CURRENT_QUARTER
18:44:42  <Borg> but.. what is it value?
18:45:35  <Alberth> look at the date, first 3 months is 1st quarter, 2nd 3 mionths 2nd quarter, etc
18:46:14  <Alberth> not unlike  RL :)
18:47:28  <Borg> yeah.. thats what I can do..
18:47:35  <Borg> but still weird we dont have function for that..
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18:50:08  <Alberth> functions only exist for information that is needed somewhere
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18:50:21  <Alberth> apparently this information is not needed
18:55:51  <planetmaker> There's a reason AI and GS libraries exist
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19:14:02  <andythenorth> oof
19:14:02  <andythenorth> who plays on maps bigger than 512x256?
19:14:02  <andythenorth> I get the fear even at 512x512
19:14:15  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: another minor issue .. <- title of document is a bit weird
19:14:26  <TrueBrain> you would expect something like: OpenTTD | Screenshots | 1.4 Cargodist
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19:14:31  <TrueBrain> not sure if that is possible :)
19:14:52  <andythenorth> I'll look
19:15:14  <TrueBrain> (I now have the same issue for downloads :D)
19:15:16  <andythenorth> :P
19:15:21  <TrueBrain> basically, you expect the title to be a crumblepath
19:15:25  <andythenorth> yes
19:15:28  * andythenorth wonders if NRT is merged yet :P
19:15:44  <TrueBrain> should we merge it before or after 1.9 is branched? :)
19:15:57  <TrueBrain> if you merge now, we need a good solid window for user-testing
19:16:01  <TrueBrain> something to consider :)
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19:17:24  <andythenorth> 2.0 :P
19:17:49  <andythenorth> it had a lot of testing in older versions, due to the binaries you were building
19:17:58  * andythenorth forks website and stuff
19:18:27  <TrueBrain> okay, downloads is working .. just the data is not auto-generated yet :D
19:18:36  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: can a page read the conten tof another page, that you know?
19:18:45  <TrueBrain> all 'stable' download pages have the same header
19:18:52  <TrueBrain> but it is different from 'catcodec', to name one
19:19:00  <TrueBrain> I want to write that content once, and use it where possible
19:19:05  <TrueBrain> hmm .. new collection, I guess
19:19:11  <TrueBrain> or, data!
19:19:32  <andythenorth> I don't know if that can be done in vanilla jekyll
19:19:49  <andythenorth> but it can definitely be done
19:20:00  <TrueBrain> hmm .. data doesnt have markdown
19:20:10  <andythenorth> you could write frontmatter vars into something, and read it
19:20:26  <andythenorth> or there's all the hooks and plugins
19:21:06  * andythenorth changes the remote on local checkout, that's nice
19:21:14  <LordAro> mm, i'd suggest there's not enough testing (and fixing) time for NRT if it's merged now
19:21:28  <andythenorth> it's the fixing that bothers me
19:21:53  <andythenorth> when are we building binaries for it? o_O
19:22:02  <andythenorth> and where will we publish them?
19:22:02  <andythenorth> oh...
19:22:04  <andythenorth> wait :P
19:22:26  <nielsm> random note to add to catcodec downloads: the program does not work with the dos music cat files, only the sound effect files
19:23:44  <andythenorth> ha ha Jekyll's only dumb feature so far: _dir_names
19:23:47  <TrueBrain> nielsm: please queue that in an internal stack; soon you can make a PR for that :D
19:24:36  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: what is that?
19:24:48  <andythenorth> means I can't navigate to them on keys
19:25:20  <TrueBrain> `{% assign type = | split: "/" | slice: 2 %}`
19:25:23  <TrueBrain> curious if that is a good idea ..
19:25:30  <andythenorth> if the dir is named 'layouts' I can press 's' to select the dir in file browser
19:25:30  <andythenorth> they're all '_foo' so I can't :P
19:25:30  <andythenorth> nvm
19:25:35  <andythenorth> it probably works
19:25:44  <andythenorth> I have a branch and was lookign for a better way
19:25:51  <andythenorth> slices like that are usually fragile
19:25:57  <andythenorth> and page titles often fail un-noticed
19:25:58  <nielsm> (I tried working on a program to produce new files like but with a bit too much ambition I got stuck and lost interest again)
19:26:26  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I need it to match my subdirectory in the collection to the meta information I have :P
19:27:01  <andythenorth> seems fair
19:31:16  <TrueBrain> 10 minutes of debugging later .. right .. I have to restart 'serve' if I add a collection
19:31:18  <TrueBrain> *facepalm*
19:31:43  <andythenorth> oof
19:31:43  <andythenorth> config needs reloaded no?
19:31:58  <TrueBrain> it detects it changed, not?
19:34:35  <LordAro> not in production mode? or is that some other site generator?
19:35:05  <andythenorth> I didn't see any resolution to this
19:35:34  <andythenorth> TL;DR config.yml doesn't auto-reload, at least in 2015
19:35:36  <Borg> hmmmm
19:35:38  <Borg> HMMMMMM
19:35:43  <Borg> a new idea popped in
19:35:49  <Borg> and I need help w/ it...
19:35:54  <Borg> Transfer Industry!
19:36:06  <andythenorth> ?? o_O
19:36:18  <Borg> well.. I always dreamed for coop games
19:36:32  <Borg> so one player sends cargo to another..
19:36:54  <andythenorth> oil rig station
19:36:55  <Eddi|zuHause> not really how industries work...
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19:37:05  <Borg> and it seems the only way to do it.. would be via industry that accepts and produces same cargo
19:37:18  <Borg> Eddi|zuHause: nah. it can be all done w/ production CB..
19:37:21  <Eddi|zuHause> there is the infrastructure sharing patch
19:37:25  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: do you want 'News' to be a crumble too?
19:37:28  <andythenorth> also
19:37:40  <andythenorth> Borg: seems reasonable
19:37:43  <nielsm> you'd have station rating losses with a "sharing industry" though
19:37:49  <Eddi|zuHause> but it has problems with payment
19:37:56  <nielsm> and it wouldn't work together with cdist
19:37:57  <andythenorth> only about 31% losses
19:37:57  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: sounds like a good idea, not?
19:38:01  <andythenorth> I'll do it
19:38:16  <TrueBrain> ah, nice solution :D
19:38:52  <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: cargodist should be fine, but if you're routing through an industry every player needs to make sure they are using "unload and leave empty" orders to not pick up cargo they just delivered
19:38:53  <andythenorth> classic
19:39:06  <TrueBrain> meh; why is ".id" a full path
19:39:09  <TrueBrain> I just want the filename
19:40:16  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] andythenorth opened pull request #5: Truebraincrumbs
19:40:25  <Eddi|zuHause> Borg: imho industries are the wrong hacky workaround for this
19:40:30  <TrueBrain> wait, there is .. it is called "label" lol
19:40:32  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: there are iirc filters for that
19:40:39  <andythenorth> or that var
19:40:51  <TrueBrain> why this ", because TrueBrain" :(
19:41:06  <andythenorth> to see you make that face mostly
19:41:10  <Borg> Eddi|zuHause: yeah.. you are right.. we should have transfer stations for that :D
19:41:22  <TrueBrain> :( now fix it :P
19:41:30  <Borg> but... as a workaround.. it might be not bad :) w/ transfer industry
19:41:36  <Borg> Ill think more abou tit
19:41:38  <andythenorth> Borg: just use industries, the losses are 'wastage'
19:41:45  <andythenorth> theft
19:41:50  <Borg> andythenorth: I cant
19:41:57  <Borg> on my current server.. I cant reach oil rigs
19:42:03  <Borg> help from other player would be neat
19:42:09  <Borg> we play sectorized OpenTTD :D
19:42:19  <Borg> more fun and chalenging
19:42:26  <andythenorth> no, I mean do your production cb idea
19:42:28  <andythenorth> it's fine
19:42:33  <Borg> andythenorth: ahh :)
19:42:44  <Borg> yeah.. small loses will be the cost of transfer :D
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19:43:07  <TrueBrain> and ... the docker broke again :(
19:43:11  <TrueBrain> will check in a moment why
19:43:11  <Borg> how many industries (custom) I can add?
19:43:15  <Borg> is there a limit?
19:43:19  <TrueBrain> this ruby stuff is not very stable is it :(
19:44:04  <andythenorth> oh FFS, I thought I could rebase to edit that commit
19:44:08  <Eddi|zuHause> a "transfer industry" like that could make use of the 16 cargos per industry stuff
19:44:14  <andythenorth> but the rebase doesn't save any change to the commits
19:44:44  <andythenorth> I am going right off my use of git
19:45:07  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: huh? surely rebasing should allow editing
19:45:15  <TrueBrain> git rebase -i upstream/master
19:45:19  <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise how are you going to solve conflicts?
19:45:31  <Borg> Eddi|zuHause: how? :) production CB can handle only 3 in 2 out..
19:45:44  <Eddi|zuHause> Borg: i think that's a work in progress
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19:45:59  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: it's a user issue
19:46:01  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] andythenorth updated pull request #5: Truebraincrumbs
19:46:30  <Borg> Eddi|zuHause: oh.. ok
19:49:25  <TrueBrain> finally, got my download-meta to work
19:49:28  <TrueBrain> that was interesting :D
19:50:55  <TrueBrain> right, now first, why is this docker broken again ..
19:54:16  <andythenorth> :|
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19:55:18  <andythenorth> fixed the commit btw
19:57:46  <TrueBrain> I really really do not understand Ruby :(
19:58:22  <TrueBrain> http_parser is for some reason disapeared or something
19:58:29  <LordAro> looks like something needs a verbose flag :p
19:58:42  <andythenorth> I have no clue, but what broke?
19:59:03  <TrueBrain> installing Jekyll fails, because it cannot find http_parser.rb-0.6.0
19:59:05  <TrueBrain> while it is there
19:59:10  <TrueBrain> worked yesterday, broke today
20:00:42  <TrueBrain> manually installing work .. lol
20:01:07  <andythenorth> oof airports
20:01:07  <andythenorth> planetmaker: is ogfx+ airports your work? :)
20:01:34  <TrueBrain> Dockers should make things more reproducable :(
20:03:36  <planetmaker> andythenorth, mostly, yes
20:03:40  <andythenorth> is nice
20:03:44  *** Wormnest has quit IRC
20:03:51  <andythenorth> is there any way to have larger airports, with grass tiles?
20:04:00  <andythenorth> like small airport can have concrete
20:04:05  <planetmaker> yes and no
20:04:26  <TrueBrain> so 'gem install' works but 'bundle install' does not .. hmm
20:04:31  <andythenorth> planetmaker: needs the sprites?
20:04:39  <planetmaker> the state-machine is tied to the upper-left(?) tile. You can define the airport as you like, but vehicles will follow the state-machines
20:04:59  <andythenorth> I just want to swap sprites
20:05:02  <planetmaker> you can define it with holes in it (and actually I did for one or two where it allows that).
20:05:08  <andythenorth> grass version of commuter airport
20:05:12  <planetmaker> And you can make irregular layouts, put sprites as you want
20:05:24  <planetmaker> works basically like industries or objects
20:05:30  <LordAro> TrueBrain: i don't really understand the difference between gem & bundle
20:05:44  <TrueBrain> I don't understand Ruby :D
20:06:16  <LordAro> :p
20:06:23  <andythenorth> isn't it just the usual packaging shit?
20:06:36  <planetmaker> andythenorth, I don't quite understand: are you requesting some specific airport?
20:06:46  <andythenorth> yes :)
20:07:01  <planetmaker> Currently they should re-use the ground sprites from the tiles they are build upon, iirc
20:07:06  <andythenorth> the 'small' airport has both grass version and concrete version
20:07:11  <andythenorth> I hoped for same for 'commuter'
20:07:15  <planetmaker> ah
20:07:25  <andythenorth> for use in countryside :P
20:07:28  <TrueBrain> yeah, bundle helps piining versions
20:07:32  <TrueBrain> so you know what is installed
20:07:55  <andythenorth> it's just all the same crap as python, with same issues
20:08:13  <TrueBrain> except that I somewhat understand pypi
20:08:18  <TrueBrain> I do not understand this :D
20:14:29  <andythenorth> commuter airport seems to have highest throughput?
20:14:38  * andythenorth trying to get a lot of small planes moved in 1920
20:15:31  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
20:18:33  <planetmaker> hm... my current version DOES have 'Small, Modern Small, Vintage Commmuter and Commuter airports
20:19:55  <andythenorth> oh maybe I have an old one?
20:20:53  <andythenorth> 0.4.2
20:20:57  <andythenorth> last release
20:21:36  <andythenorth> wonder if the bundles version is safe to use
20:22:06  <planetmaker> <-- like that?
20:23:11  <andythenorth> very and exactly that :)
20:24:33  <andythenorth> oops
20:24:34  <TrueBrain> okay, it is only 2 packages that fail .. hmm
20:24:41  <andythenorth> don't add that to a running game :D
20:29:50  <planetmaker> <-- seems I should just release the current dev version as... 0.4.3 or so :)
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20:30:19  <andythenorth> seaplane port :D
20:30:30  <planetmaker> which cannot be built on water :D
20:31:21  <planetmaker> it's visible in the screenshot as well. There used to be one NewGRF (by Pikka?) which had a sea plane
20:31:51  <andythenorth> these airports are great :)
20:31:58  <andythenorth> just need grass large and hub ones :P
20:32:03  * andythenorth could check out the repo
20:32:12  <planetmaker> grass large and hub :D
20:32:22  <planetmaker> you could simply download the current dev build from bundles server
20:32:42  <planetmaker>
20:33:03  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain opened pull request #6:  Fix: for yet-unknown-reasons 'bundle install' no longer installs http_parser.rb and safe_yaml
20:33:20  <andythenorth> I got the one from push
20:33:27  <andythenorth> had to throw away my savegame, but eh
20:33:55  <TrueBrain> right .. this should "work again"
20:34:46  <TrueBrain> hmm .. I want to make a collection out of collections
20:35:04  <andythenorth> ha
20:35:07  <andythenorth> turtles
20:36:00  <TrueBrain> yup
20:36:15  <TrueBrain> as now I want to know the latest version in openttd-releases of the downloads collection
20:36:43  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain merged pull request #6:  Fix: for yet-unknown-reasons 'bundle install' no longer installs http_parser.rb and safe_yaml
20:36:49  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: you can rebase now and push again
20:37:31  <TrueBrain> we can also make a collection per download type ..
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20:37:56  <TrueBrain> possibly a bit cleaner
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20:38:43  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] andythenorth updated pull request #5: Truebraincrumbs
20:38:53  <TrueBrain> no, that just looks very weird
20:41:06  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain approved pull request #5: Truebraincrumbs
20:41:38  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: is there an ascii art tree diagram of what you're trying to do? o_O
20:41:45  <andythenorth> or shall I just leave you to it?
20:42:04  <TrueBrain> I am just fiddling with how to do downloads the best/easiest
20:42:11  <TrueBrain> so also toying with Jekyll :D
20:42:23  <TrueBrain> I now made a collection 'downloads'
20:42:28  <TrueBrain> in which I put a folder 'openttd-release'
20:42:32  <TrueBrain> and 'openttd-nightly'
20:42:38  <TrueBrain> in there, md files with information about the release
20:42:57  <TrueBrain> that seems to be working fine
20:43:11  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain merged pull request #5: Truebraincrumbs
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20:46:06  <TrueBrain> just I now want to find the latest openttd-release version .. that means I need to filter on an id like /downloads/openttd-release
20:46:07  <TrueBrain> which feels odd
20:46:40  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: can you use variables in the header? So I can use a variable in section_title?
20:46:58  <andythenorth> I'm not sure
20:47:04  <andythenorth> I don't know if it will cascade
20:47:10  <TrueBrain> meh; goldplating
20:47:15  <TrueBrain> looks good btw, crumble like this
20:47:17  <TrueBrain> lot better :)
20:47:21  <andythenorth> if it's just symbol replacement, vars might work
20:47:40  <andythenorth> these languages are usually pretty simple and just replace symbols :P
20:48:27  <andythenorth> but simple is preferable
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20:55:33  <TrueBrain> hmm, we have 'stable' and 'testing' I guess
20:57:08  <planetmaker> actually we used to have 'stable', 'testing' and 'nightly'
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20:57:41  <planetmaker> where 'stable' is release, 'testing' is a released beta or rc-version. And nightly... well... just that
21:05:34  <TrueBrain> that is what I meant, yes :)
21:05:49  <TrueBrain> but both 'stable' and 'testing' are 'releases', which is a bit annoying :P
21:05:50  <Borg> btw, anyone addressed this already?
21:05:54  <TrueBrain> (nightlies are too, but those are easy to explain)
21:06:02  <TrueBrain> but I found a nice solution :D
21:06:06  <TrueBrain> I think ......
21:06:18  <TrueBrain> (releases btw we keep forever)
21:08:30  <TrueBrain> andythenorth:
21:08:31  <TrueBrain> how did I do?
21:09:38  * andythenorth tests it
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21:09:56  <andythenorth> oh it's not a PR yet
21:10:27  <andythenorth> it's good that you alphabetised the collections in config.yml
21:10:44  <TrueBrain> :D
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21:10:52  <TrueBrain> the css and js are a copy of the current work btw
21:10:55  <TrueBrain> didnt touch those
21:11:31  <andythenorth> hmm I add you as a remote, and cherrypick your commit maybe? :P
21:11:36  * andythenorth 'my first git' still
21:11:41  <andythenorth> after like 7 years
21:11:54  <TrueBrain> it is a branch, so you can switch to it after you add mine as remote, yes
21:12:06  <TrueBrain> there is one commit before mine that fixes stuff :D
21:12:07  <planetmaker> Borg, and what is to address there? It's a screenshot
21:12:44  <Borg> planetmaker: there is draw issue, look at Net power: <NUM> <- distorted.. in power plant
21:12:45  <andythenorth> the repaint on industry prod amounts
21:12:52  <Borg> yeah..
21:13:00  <andythenorth> I thought frosch fixed that
21:13:03  <TrueBrain> owh, I need to stort on the date, I see
21:13:09  <Borg> andythenorth: its 1.8.0
21:13:13  <andythenorth> lot of commits recently though, I'm not checking :P
21:13:15  <Borg> if its in nighty.. then its ok :)
21:13:23  <andythenorth> it was happening for me as well, some time ago
21:13:26  <andythenorth> haven't seen it recently
21:13:32  <TrueBrain> can Jekyll convert byte to things like MiB/KiB, depending on the size ..
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21:13:57  <Borg> andythenorth: in 1.8.0 it happens still at least for NewGRF texts
21:14:11  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: I'll look
21:16:18  <planetmaker> 103 minutes left for me :P
21:16:33  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: this suggests handling it ourselves, but I'm still reading docs
21:16:39  <andythenorth> planetmaker: until?
21:16:41  <andythenorth> you explode?
21:17:28  <planetmaker> until my commit from 30 minutes ago becomes invalid :P
21:17:40  <planetmaker> the update to ogfx-airports changelog
21:19:00  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: can't find anything :)
21:20:01  <planetmaker> it's bad habit to have such changes rotting for years without publishing them
21:20:13  <TrueBrain> string_of_size is suggested
21:20:29  <planetmaker> I really have to learn again how I can actually draw more skidd marks when the airport is in heavy usage :D
21:20:37  <planetmaker> I didn't even guess anymore that it's possible ;)
21:20:59  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: but that doesn't work .. lame :(
21:21:20  <andythenorth> :(
21:21:34  *** Borg has quit IRC
21:21:44  <TrueBrain> ah, jekyll-octopod does
21:22:27  *** Thedarkb1-T60 has quit IRC
21:22:51  <TrueBrain> bit much, a dep for 1 filter :D
21:26:18  <andythenorth> :P
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21:28:33  <TrueBrain> ha
21:28:35  <TrueBrain> solved it :D
21:28:41  <TrueBrain> (took that single function and put it in a local plugin)
21:29:17  <TrueBrain> that looks a lot better
21:29:29  <TrueBrain> right, so the URLs are a bit different .. every project will have NNN-releases
21:29:33  <TrueBrain> and they can have NNN-nightlies
21:29:37  <TrueBrain> if they exist
21:29:47  <TrueBrain> I just wonder .. openttd-releases or  openttd-release .. what looks better in the URL?
21:30:04  <andythenorth> potato / potato
21:30:12  <andythenorth> I favour releases
21:30:15  <andythenorth> there are n of them?
21:30:27  <TrueBrain> screenshots is also plural, so yeah
21:30:57  <TrueBrain> okay ... seems to me I only have to script the rest together
21:31:05  <TrueBrain> nightlies are a bit weird, as they are also called 'trunk' currently
21:31:25  <TrueBrain> if this works .... gonna be great :D
21:31:30  <TrueBrain> but first I have to get some sleep, as I have to work tomorrow :(
21:31:35  <TrueBrain> night all!
21:31:47  <andythenorth> +1
21:31:50  <andythenorth> bye
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22:09:53  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #6983: Feature: Town name filtering
22:13:46  *** Samu has joined #openttd
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22:36:49  <planetmaker> ups... forgot --dry-run. Well. I guess we have a new release of OpenGFX+ Airports :) Enjoy!
22:37:32  <LordAro> ha
22:37:52  <Eddi|zuHause> what? other people try to not push right to production? :p
22:39:11  <glx> or prevent it by requiring PR
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23:16:53  <planetmaker> hm... how annoying... the full screen functionality of OpenTTD doesn't play well (anymore). It messes with my 2-screen-setup
23:29:58  <Xaroth> awwww
23:30:06  <Xaroth> first world problems :P
23:32:10  <planetmaker> it's annoying when OpenTTD changes it to 'mirrored'
23:32:20  <planetmaker> :P
23:32:43  <planetmaker> and there seems to be no custom screen size anymore. But now there's many more screen sizes to choose from
23:32:52  <planetmaker> so ... something driver-side likely changed :)
23:33:05  <planetmaker> definitely not 1st-world-problem ;)
23:56:02  <Samu> 3582
23:59:59  <planetmaker> hm?

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