Log for #openttd on 25th January 2019:
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00:41:23  <Samu> no, I'm lost, i'm not going anywhere with this
00:44:11  <Samu> I keep getting into the same problem: there's no way to invalidate the text that's shown on this window
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00:45:35  <Samu> TextFileWindow is used in too many places
00:46:18  <Samu> if I edit it, i may break the rest
00:46:37  <Samu> it's even used for network server lists
00:46:42  <Samu> reading ini files
00:46:45  <Samu> too much
00:48:10  <Samu> textfile_gui.cpp
00:49:38  <Samu>
01:20:58  <Samu> i'm finally getting somewhere
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01:58:25  <Samu> looks like I don't have to edit textfile_gui.cpp after all
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02:09:41  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7094: Fix #7088: Retrieve an appropriate name for a non-existant AI/GS when…
02:22:29  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7094: Fix #7088: Retrieve an appropriate name for a non-existant AI/GS when…
02:35:42  <Samu> why is this rejected?
02:35:55  <Samu> oh well
02:37:00  <Samu> it's already hard as is to build water connections in-land :|
02:37:19  <Samu> this was going to help
02:46:51  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #7097: Fix: enable DPI-awareness for MINGW builds
02:49:06  <Samu> it doesn't make sense closing that one
02:49:18  <Samu> I don't understand what you want
02:50:58  <Samu> if I want to build a dock in front of an aqueduct, now I have to flatten the land, place a canal, build the dock, demolish canal, make it inclined again and build aqueduct
02:51:09  <Samu> that's stupid
02:55:22  <Samu> the half-tile water with one corner raised, I don't get it why is it wrong...
02:56:03  <Samu> i can already raise a flat sea into a one corner half-tile in front of the dock
02:56:41  <Samu> you guys don't play ships...
02:58:05  <Samu> the buoy is another one... i can place buoys in front of docks, but docks can't be placed in front of buoys?
02:59:28  <Samu> do you actually build canals in land?
02:59:35  <Samu> i seriously doubt it
03:01:01  <Samu> all these changes are to help canal construction, if you would actually play ships and build canal routes, you'd get stuck into these types of non-sense situations quickly
03:01:20  <Samu> bah... I'm depressed
03:03:35  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations
03:07:59  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7097: Fix: enable DPI-awareness for MINGW builds
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03:31:27  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
03:42:53  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7084: Change: AI/GS Config GUI overhaul
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03:53:52  <Samu> glx u there?
03:54:24  <Samu> im getting a crash when starting a game in multiplayer with master
03:55:21  <Samu> doesn't crash in single player
03:56:09  <Samu> wait a minute, it does...
03:56:14  <Samu> what the heck
03:56:58  <Samu> Expression: cannot dereference end map/set iterator
04:00:14  <Samu> did you make changes to terraform cmd or tileheight?
04:00:17  <Samu> recently?
04:01:26  <Samu> it's crashing when setting tile heights of some tiles
04:06:37  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
04:12:58  <glx> merged 8h ago Samu
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04:16:58  <Samu> aha
04:17:05  <Samu> doesn't it crash for you?
04:17:16  <Samu> start a new game, and bam, crash
04:17:31  <Samu> in debug build only
04:17:38  <Samu> release build doesn't crash
04:18:36  <Samu> crashes exactly here
04:19:25  <Samu> Expression: cannot dereference end map/set iterator
04:19:49  <Samu> what does it mean?
04:30:52  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened issue #7098: Crash: cannot dereference end map/set iterator
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07:32:24  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #7098: Crash: cannot dereference end map/set iterator
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07:41:46  <andythenorth> moin
07:45:17  <Pikka> noim
07:48:55  * andythenorth has nothing
07:49:10  <andythenorth> well I have 9 failing tests, but that's not news
07:50:30  <Pikka> it's news to me
07:51:43  <andythenorth> our pretendolino sketch petered out
07:51:55  <andythenorth> the forums must be waiting keenly for next installment
07:54:55  <Pikka> peterlino?
07:56:55  <andythenorth> ooh
07:57:03  <andythenorth> what colour is it?
07:57:11  <andythenorth> does it go?
07:57:20  <Pikka> does it ever
07:59:30  <andythenorth> is it done yet?
08:00:24  <Pikka> depends on what you mean by "it" and "done".
08:00:35  <andythenorth> you were drawing bigger trains?
08:00:38  <andythenorth> to suit bigger eyes
08:00:56  <Pikka> and smaller pixels
08:01:23  <Pikka> I did the greyhound today, it's done-ish
08:03:54  <Pikka> and I had a brainwave that - of course - recolour sprites still work with 32bpp, so I don't have to make separate black steam loco sprites. So that's done too.
08:05:19  <andythenorth> \o/
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08:06:04  * andythenorth draws a sort of class 91 
08:06:44  <Pikka> can you draw one for me too?
08:08:46  <andythenorth> if you are happy for it to be 1x zoom, yes
08:08:47  <peter1138> Liveries?
08:08:51  <andythenorth> liveries
08:08:54  <peter1138> 1x smells.
08:08:58  <peter1138> 2x is the new 1x.
08:09:00  <andythenorth> Pikka: what colour are steam trains anyway?
08:09:33  <andythenorth> I think your A3 is in there somewhere
08:10:25  <Pikka> 2cc is nice
08:10:58  <Pikka> if only AIs could 2cc
08:11:04  <peter1138> How should I solve the GUI for (group) liveries?
08:11:11  <peter1138> Cos it's shitty at the moment.
08:11:38  <peter1138> It's in the company colours window, which is logical for setting colours, but maybe it should be in the group window, because groups...
08:12:23  <peter1138> Hmm, maybe a button in the group window can open the company colours window and select the right thing.
08:12:26  <peter1138> That'll work.
08:12:40  <peter1138> And I can reuse those lovely icons that somebody made.
08:13:20  <andythenorth> should be in the group window yes
08:13:27  <andythenorth> there was some reason you didn't
08:13:32  <andythenorth> like scope or some crap
08:13:34  <andythenorth> can't remember
08:14:09  <peter1138> Nah, window resizing messing up.
08:14:16  <peter1138> Oops, 8:14, I ought to head to work.
08:14:23  * andythenorth already is working
08:14:24  <andythenorth> and drawing
08:14:32  <andythenorth> three hands
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08:57:25  <peter1138> Ok, I made it to work.
08:58:06  <andythenorth> hooray
08:58:10  <andythenorth> is it snowing?
09:00:40  <peter1138> It's not, It's foggy and a heady 4.5°C
09:02:19  <andythenorth> oops
09:02:30  <andythenorth> I set the sparks effect for every coach in a high speed train
09:03:36  <andythenorth> looks quite cool
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09:05:41  <peter1138> :D
09:23:39  <planetmaker> moin
09:28:40  <andythenorth> hi
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09:49:12  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7097: Fix: enable DPI-awareness for MINGW builds
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10:12:11  <Pikka> boing
10:12:28  <Pikka> or maybe it was boeing
10:29:09  <andythenorth> airbus
10:59:00  <Eddi|zuHause> it's of course böing
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11:53:16  <TrueBrain> I blame andythenorth
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11:55:39  <Trubrain_> I blame andythenorth too
11:56:02  <TrueBrain> sad you cant even write TrueBrain
11:56:12  <Trubrain_> sad
11:56:17  <Trubrain_> but tru
11:56:44  <TrueBrain> :D
11:56:49  <TrueBrain> I like the dedication :)
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12:10:05  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain opened pull request #37: Several fixes for frontpage
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12:29:41  <TrueBrain> okay, fixed the feedback for the website .. guess that should be good enough to launch now :D
12:29:52  <Trubrain_> thanks
12:30:22  <TrueBrain> you do need to review it first :P
12:30:32  <Trubrain_> I will
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12:31:01  <TrueBrain> \o/ :D
12:43:54  <peter1138>  div id based on now/date ?
12:44:33  <peter1138> %u... day of week?
12:44:52  <TrueBrain> yup
12:45:05  <TrueBrain> hmmm .. NoAI docs return a near-empty index.html
12:45:21  <peter1138> Hmm, I see it the CSS.
12:45:25  <peter1138> Neat :)
12:46:27  <TrueBrain> its a very old gimmick, a few people spotted over the years
12:46:37  <TrueBrain> it makes the website a bit more alive, in some sense
12:46:37  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] PeterN approved pull request #37: Several fixes for frontpage
12:46:56  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain closed issue #35: "Support us by translating" is fake
12:46:57  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain merged pull request #37: Several fixes for frontpage
12:46:58  <TrueBrain> tnx!
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12:47:36  <peter1138> I mean, I don't know what the scripting system is there but it looked sane...
12:47:44  <peter1138> {{ }} likes like jinja.
12:47:55  <TrueBrain> Liquid, but different name, same shit
12:47:56  <peter1138> *looks
12:48:27  <peter1138> If there was <?php in there I'd be horrified :D
12:48:57  <TrueBrain> lol .. Doxygen fails if there is a space in the folder name
12:49:49  <TrueBrain> okay, locally doxygen for NoAI does work
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12:54:38  <TrueBrain> ah .. it needs gawk
12:54:42  <TrueBrain> and it silently continues
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13:00:37  <TrueBrain> < -does look a bit empty now on the right
13:00:37  <TrueBrain> meh
13:00:55  <peter1138> Hmm...
13:01:04  <peter1138> What built the stats before?
13:01:32  <TrueBrain> the current stats are already fake, now I come to think of it
13:01:36  <TrueBrain> it fetches the data from the WT3
13:01:41  <TrueBrain> which .. hasnt been updated in months, ofc
13:01:52  <TrueBrain> not sure if eints can be polled for this data
13:02:07  <TrueBrain> the frontpage and WT3 are in the same application, so it could just fetch the data like it was nothing :)
13:03:13  <peter1138> Could be built from the lang files some how.
13:03:23  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain opened pull request #23: Add: also create 'noai' and 'nogs' documentation tarballs
13:05:13  <TrueBrain> 100 MiB for source docs, unextracted ..
13:05:17  <TrueBrain> guess I won't be publishing that
13:05:20  <TrueBrain> waste of space :D
13:05:24  <LordAro> site needs a redesign :p
13:05:41  <LordAro> TrueBrain: that seems high, what on earth is it?
13:05:54  <LordAro> is in it*
13:05:56  <TrueBrain> no freaking clue
13:06:03  <TrueBrain> I just run 'doxygen', and it gives me that :P
13:06:29  <TrueBrain> images, lots of them
13:06:49  <LordAro> ah yeah, lots of graphs
13:07:05  <peter1138> Images? Hmm.
13:07:32  <TrueBrain> 2115865 Jan 25 14:00 newgrf_8cpp_source.html
13:07:33  <TrueBrain> lol
13:07:38  <TrueBrain> 2 MiB of HTML :D
13:07:52  <TrueBrain> the source files are eating up all the disk space
13:09:22  <peter1138> I just ran doxygen and got... 190MB :/
13:09:42  <TrueBrain> indeed
13:09:46  <TrueBrain> 0 .. 9 .. not always easy to spot
13:12:35  <TrueBrain> why is it, and not
13:12:51  <TrueBrain> guess nogo is a bit of an old name ..
13:13:15  <peter1138> no goal wasn't it?
13:13:20  <TrueBrain> yeah
13:13:32  <TrueBrain> but it became GameScript
13:13:35  <TrueBrain> meh
13:13:36  <TrueBrain> nogo it is
13:14:31  <TrueBrain> hmm ...
13:14:34  <TrueBrain> -docs-source
13:14:39  <TrueBrain> is the source tarball
13:14:49  <TrueBrain> -docs-noai, -docs-ai, -docs-aidocs, ..
13:14:50  <peter1138> Could change it to nogs and redirect nogo to that?
13:15:01  <TrueBrain> and: -docs-nogo, -docs-game, -docs-gamedocs, ..
13:15:04  <TrueBrain> any preference?
13:15:17  <TrueBrain> -docs-gamescript ?
13:15:19  <peter1138> ai / game
13:15:24  <peter1138> -docs-ai -docs-game
13:15:25  <TrueBrain> -docs-aiscript ?
13:15:56  <peter1138> Hmm
13:16:04  <peter1138> -docs-ai / -docs-gs ?
13:16:08  <peter1138> Dunno.
13:16:15  <peter1138> -docs-gamescript works.
13:16:21  <peter1138> -docs-game could be ambiguous.
13:16:36  <TrueBrain> I like -docs-ai / -docs-gs
13:16:51  <TrueBrain> docs-ai.tar.xz:
13:16:51  <TrueBrain>   description: Documentation for AI scripting (xz/lzma archive)
13:16:51  <TrueBrain> docs-gs.tar.xz:
13:16:51  <TrueBrain>   description: Documentation for Game scripting (xz/lzma archive)
13:17:06  <peter1138> Good enough :-)
13:17:19  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain updated pull request #23: Add: also create 'noai' and 'nogs' documentation tarballs
13:18:18  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain opened pull request #38: Add: there are now three more tarballs for documentation
13:18:27  <TrueBrain> that should fix that :)
13:21:23  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/CompileFarm] PeterN approved pull request #23: Add: also create 'noai' and 'nogs' documentation tarballs
13:22:10  <peter1138> is still relevant?
13:22:21  <TrueBrain> yeah; it contains the full history of any extension we ever had :)
13:22:28  <peter1138> k
13:22:29  <TrueBrain> helps when rendering old folders
13:22:34  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] PeterN approved pull request #38: Add: there are now three more tarballs for documentation
13:22:46  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain merged pull request #38: Add: there are now three more tarballs for documentation
13:22:59  <TrueBrain> another one bites the dust \o/
13:24:04  <peter1138> Linux deb release images appeared on the CI, I see.
13:24:22  <TrueBrain> they have for months
13:24:29  <peter1138> Hmm.
13:24:34  <TrueBrain> like I said yesterday, Debian and Ubuntu deb files are created on release
13:24:44  <peter1138> Oh right, it's the CF CI, not OpenTTD CI.
13:24:45  <TrueBrain> but they ONLY work on releases, not for nightlies
13:25:21  <TrueBrain> we could also add stuff like rpms, debs, .. for nightlies
13:25:23  <TrueBrain> that would work too
13:25:27  <TrueBrain> but .. os/debian is a maze to me :D
13:25:53  <peter1138> I know how to bodge them :)
13:26:39  <TrueBrain> <- seems I never removed the attempts for generic linux
13:26:47  <TrueBrain> it just doesn't work (at all) in its current form
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13:29:13  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain closed issue #20: release-docs doesn't create NoAI / NoGS docs
13:29:14  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain merged pull request #23: Add: also create 'noai' and 'nogs' documentation tarballs
13:29:37  <TrueBrain> right, that should produce those binaries tonight
13:29:43  <TrueBrain> we will see if they do :P
13:34:14  <peter1138> :D
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14:02:51  <Samu> hi
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14:05:22  <Samu> can you reconsider opening #6926
14:09:02  <peter1138> I think it'd be better to revamp docks.
14:09:21  <Samu>
14:11:33  <Samu> I was mad :(
14:14:00  <Samu> btw, i can't test my other PRs atm with that dereference crash always getting in the way
14:18:13  <peter1138> Just change 316 from != to ==
14:18:59  <Samu> ok
14:21:47  <peter1138> (Just don't commit that)
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14:34:22  <supermop_work_> good morning
14:35:20  <supermop_work_> happy invasion day Pikka
14:35:37  <Pikka> true!
14:35:46  <supermop_work_> melbourners seem to only celebrate australia day when they live in Brooklyn
14:36:23  <supermop_work_> also apparently we have a New York Magpies
14:36:43  <supermop_work_> the only thing that doesn't surprise me about that is that it isn't the Bushwick Magpies
14:37:14  <supermop_work_> i will be eating Tim Tams and drinking Coopers this evening
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14:42:01  <supermop_work_> yo Antheus
14:42:04  <supermop_work_> oops
14:42:06  <supermop_work_> andythenorth:
14:42:13  <andythenorth> yo
14:42:30  <andythenorth> industrial trains are BAD FEATURE?
14:42:36  <supermop_work_> i guess hi to Antheus too, no harm being friendly
14:42:55  <supermop_work_> andythenorth: idk. its something i sometimes want
14:43:08  <Samu> andythenorth plz reopen 6926, plzzoh
14:43:45  <supermop_work_> sometimes i just want to build a little metro with various short turn termini and branches
14:43:55  <andythenorth> Samu: no, you'll have to convince someone else
14:44:00  <supermop_work_> and then industries are just noise
14:44:06  <andythenorth> 6926 makes no sense to me
14:44:27  <Samu> how does it not make sense?
14:44:30  <supermop_work_> in those cases i guess industrial trains might make sense as decorative noise
14:44:41  <Samu> i don't get it
14:44:53  <andythenorth> how many patches have you made to try and prevent ship routes being blocked?
14:45:08  <andythenorth> more than none?
14:45:30  <Borg> howdy Pikka :)
14:45:40  <andythenorth> 6296
14:45:47  <supermop_work_> i still haven't built a network of 3-track mainlines that has been able to convince me there is any sensible way to use them
14:45:50  <andythenorth> - the '3rd tile' blocks ship routes
14:45:58  <andythenorth> - the aqueduct head blocks ship routes
14:46:17  <supermop_work_> can we just remove ships for real
14:46:53  <andythenorth> replace with NRT
14:47:09  <andythenorth> supermop_work_: you should start a screenshot thread in forums
14:47:10  <Samu> that patch aim is not about blocking routes
14:47:23  <Samu> it's to facilitate canal construction inland
14:47:31  <andythenorth> 6296?
14:47:35  <Samu> yes
14:47:36  <planetmaker> Samu, I think the argument is: introducing that patch even blocks more ship routes
14:47:41  <planetmaker> makes blocking them easier
14:47:43  <andythenorth> in what way is that goal related to the content of 6296?
14:47:52  <andythenorth> the patch doesn't affect inland canals
14:48:11  <Samu> I gave my reasons here
14:48:38  <peter1138> And we gave our reasons.
14:48:46  <andythenorth> my point is you don't seem to understand your own goals
14:49:00  <andythenorth> you provide many well-intended attempts to prevent ship routes failing
14:49:12  <andythenorth> then you ask for a PR to be accepted that trivially blocks ship routes
14:49:24  <andythenorth> 6296 doesn't solve any useful problem
14:49:28  <Samu> how is that even related
14:49:52  <andythenorth> it is related, but I will have to re-explain
14:49:59  <Samu> you don't seem to understand my aims
14:50:14  <andythenorth> I am prepared to listen again
14:50:23  <andythenorth> but my theory is that *you* don't understand your aims
14:50:28  <planetmaker> what's your aim? Not that of a single patch or PR. But in general?
14:50:35  <andythenorth> ^ what planetmaker said
14:50:45  <andythenorth> :)
14:51:05  <Samu> 6926 aim was to ease water constructions constraints a bit
14:51:28  <Samu> 7078 idem
14:51:49  <andythenorth> 7078 isn't rejecte
14:51:53  <andythenorth> rejected *
14:52:04  <andythenorth> I agree that issue is worth solving somehow
14:52:19  <planetmaker> ^^ (and I agree with the comment concerning foundations)
14:53:21  <Samu> the one about lock pricing is not about because of their costs being high, but because of a flaw in how the costs are added up
14:53:32  <Samu> you misunderstood that one
14:53:35  <peter1138> Hmm, how should I signal to an open window to change its current selection?
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14:54:36  <dihedral> hello
14:54:38  <andythenorth> Samu: for 6233, I checked with frosch, who had reviewed it.  I didn't review it myself
14:54:59  <andythenorth> you have about 30% of the open PRs, and they are consuming a lot of the available reviewer time
14:54:59  <Samu> #6933 is also aimed to ease water construction constraints
14:55:06  <andythenorth> reviewer time is a scarce resource
14:55:43  <Samu> you really need to build canals inland to understand the reasonings behind these changes
14:55:57  <andythenorth> how do you know I don't? o_O
14:55:59  <Samu> if you don't, it's easy to dismiss what I do
14:56:15  <Samu> you get into those issues easily
14:56:57  <andythenorth> Samu: I've made 2 of the 5 most popular ship grfs :)
14:57:00  <andythenorth> I know about canals
14:57:01  <Samu> it's very cumbersome at the moment
14:57:11  <andythenorth> I am well aware
14:57:41  <andythenorth> I'm not rejecting your PRs because canals are good
14:57:43  <andythenorth> canals are bad
14:57:48  <andythenorth> but these PRs are not well formed
14:57:57  <andythenorth> and you are occupying a lot of reviewer time with them
14:58:03  <andythenorth> and very few make progress
14:58:19  <andythenorth> and it's ultimately not fair on other contributors
14:58:32  <andythenorth> it might seem unfair to you that I close them
14:58:40  <andythenorth> but there is a greater unfairness to other people if I don't
14:58:47  <andythenorth> I don't like doing it, but eh
14:59:04  <peter1138> Make well-formed smaller PRs. In the PR, describe what you are trying to achieve.
14:59:26  <peter1138> Don't stack things together just because they're related, or make sense to you.
14:59:39  <planetmaker> I don't think it can get smaller than e.g. #6233
15:00:03  <peter1138> JGR didn't make one huge PR for improving cargo flow drawing.
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15:00:42  <peter1138> 6233 is an issue, not a PR.
15:01:00  <peter1138> And I meant in general.
15:01:42  <andythenorth> is the PR, and frosch found it made no sense
15:01:55  <andythenorth> given that I trust frosch, why waste more people's time trying to do something with it?
15:02:44  <andythenorth> it's been there since October 2018, so it's hard to make the case that anybody else really cares about that one
15:02:59  <peter1138> "if (!IsWaterTile(tile)) c->infrastructure.water++;"
15:03:06  <peter1138> Yeah... you can't build a lock on water.
15:03:36  <peter1138> (Or can you on a river? Hmm)
15:03:44  <Samu> you can on a river
15:03:50  <planetmaker> it only changes the infrastructure count. Not the ability to build
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15:04:05  <peter1138> Aye.
15:04:34  <peter1138> But nobody owns a river.
15:05:00  <planetmaker> yep. But a lock
15:05:30  <Samu> if it's a river, don't count
15:05:36  <Samu> if it's not, count
15:05:50  <Samu> river is the only water tile
15:05:52  <peter1138> The lock is aleady counted.
15:06:15  <planetmaker> One can argue for locks both ways, both equally valid IMHO: building a lock in a river to make it shippable, is a HUGE endeavour. As such you definitely add infrastructure in that case
15:06:28  <planetmaker> But you don't add new water....
15:06:42  <peter1138> planetmaker, well, you should get the cost of the river tile being cleared
15:06:56  <peter1138> but ongoing, the cost of the lock is the same, so infrastructure cost doesn't change
15:07:16  <Samu> i mimic what happens to the north and south parts
15:07:37  <Samu> went with that line of thought
15:07:42  <Samu> and applied to the middle
15:08:54  <peter1138> I think there is an issue in that the delta tiles could be river, or could be canals (owned by whom?)
15:09:11  <peter1138> Hmm, no
15:10:15  <peter1138> If they are river, they stay river, therefore you don't have infrastructure cost for them
15:10:49  <peter1138> You always pay for the infrastructure cost of the centre lock tile. That cost is more than a regular water tile, though.
15:10:50  <nielsm> imo the outer tiles of a lock should be converted from river to canal when building a lock on a river
15:11:16  <peter1138> nielsm, maybe
15:11:17  <nielsm> that's what the graphics hints
15:11:25  <peter1138> What about sea water?
15:11:27  <planetmaker> the important one is the center... but yes, graphics hint that
15:11:35  <planetmaker> the lock extends into sea @ peter1138
15:11:37  <peter1138> Should that become a canal tile too?
15:11:41  <planetmaker> so... yes, there, too. Why not
15:11:50  <planetmaker> for consistency
15:11:51  <Samu> it remains sea
15:11:51  <peter1138> Should it stay a canal tile when you remove it?
15:12:00  <planetmaker> I guess not
15:12:17  <nielsm> yes, they stay canal
15:12:21  <planetmaker> though canal at sea level is a convenient hack to fend-off land at sealevel
15:12:28  <nielsm> river tiles
15:12:34  <nielsm> sea tiles convert back I guess
15:12:37  <peter1138> Oddly when removing a lock placed on a river, it gets converted back to a river.
15:12:40  <peter1138> o_O
15:12:43  <nielsm> (clear and re-flood)
15:12:57  <planetmaker> there's IMHO two choices: a) convert upper and lower tile to canal - and destroy them upon lock removal
15:12:59  <nielsm> that sounds bad, converting back to river
15:13:11  <planetmaker> or b) keep them the water whatever they are. And don#t destroy them upon removal
15:13:21  <peter1138> b is what we do at the moment
15:13:26  <Samu> i like b
15:13:28  <peter1138> a might make more sense
15:13:32  <planetmaker> the water class of the tiles is not changed currently. So they stay what they are
15:13:52  <Samu> except when it's not water to being with
15:13:55  <peter1138> the lower lock tile on sea can then just be converted to dirt, ready to flood again
15:13:57  <Samu> becomes canal
15:14:04  <planetmaker> right
15:14:14  <planetmaker> yep @ peter
15:14:57  <peter1138> Hmm, what happens when you build a lock on a competitor canal? Is that possible?
15:15:08  <Samu> it is
15:15:13  <planetmaker> maybe a) is more consistent indeed. Not sure I really like it though... it destroys rivers needlessly
15:15:29  <Samu> upper and lower parts belong to the canal owner
15:15:38  <Samu> middle tile belongs to lock owner
15:15:39  <planetmaker> but then it just shows another problem: that rivers don't restore their "natural" path
15:15:58  <planetmaker> which is somewhat out-of-scope for this discussion
15:16:14  <peter1138> Flowing rivers :D
15:16:16  <nielsm> if you demolish a lock, regardless of which tile of it you click, it should convert to a click on the center tile of it
15:16:29  <nielsm> and canal ends on top and bottom remain
15:16:48  <peter1138> 14:57 < andythenorth> and you are occupying a lot of reviewer time with them
15:16:52  <peter1138> See...
15:17:00  <Pikka> obviously removing rivers is the only option :D
15:17:01  <nielsm> should rivers even be destroyable at all?
15:17:46  <planetmaker> nielsm, that's another discussion... but you would want to keep the option to build locks into them
15:17:48  <Samu> i had a patch some years ago that would restore rivers upon demolishing canal
15:17:52  <planetmaker> (or not?... maybe)
15:17:56  <Samu> was rejected by yours truly
15:18:34  <peter1138> Yes, that's silly.,
15:18:36  <andythenorth> see all this
15:18:43  <andythenorth> and does it make any difference to gameplay?
15:18:45  <andythenorth> or stability?
15:19:01  <andythenorth> or is it amusing or fun?
15:19:30  <planetmaker> now you're being mean @ andy
15:19:36  <Samu> it was making rivers more "important" to play around at least
15:19:53  <andythenorth> planetmaker: not intending to be mean :)
15:19:56  <Samu> not just a thing that you remove just so you can build more rail tracks
15:19:57  <nielsm> introduce a "river spring" tile, which is indestructible, it propagates "flow bit" through all adjacent river and canal tiles, a river tile with flow bit only connected to one other water tile will random walk into adjacent tiles expanding the river, and if other water tiles are nearby (e.g. 3 tiles distance) gravitate towards those
15:20:15  <nielsm> except that river flow can't propagate upwards in elevation
15:20:40  <planetmaker> not a new idea. And not necessarily a bad one
15:20:47  <planetmaker> Unfortunately not implemented
15:20:54  <nielsm> possibly even make river flow not a bit but a value so multiple rivers flowing together creates stronger flow
15:20:58  <Samu> sec, let me find
15:20:58  <peter1138> nielsm, I welcome a PR ;)
15:21:00  <planetmaker> does it destroy houses / industries / infrastructure?
15:21:02  <nielsm> :P
15:21:11  <peter1138> nielsm, yes, needs to be a value. We have lots of spaces now.
15:21:13  <peter1138> *space
15:21:27  <peter1138> planetmaker, griefing too, yes.
15:21:29  <peter1138> *tool
15:21:31  <Samu>
15:21:39  <planetmaker> hm
15:21:45  <planetmaker> maybe :)
15:22:01  <planetmaker> so... just add an option "Allow destroying rivers" and it's settled
15:22:06  <peter1138> :p
15:22:14  <planetmaker> if it's set to 'false', such griefing cannot happen
15:22:19  <nielsm> or maybe make it possible to destroy river springs, but it will cost a fortune and all towns in a 128 tile radius will instantly hate you :D
15:22:32  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
15:23:20  <planetmaker> Maybe those springs should rather be like antenna masts: un-removable
15:23:31  <nielsm> yeah that's the other option
15:24:33  <peter1138> You'll be getting on to rivers drying up
15:24:38  <peter1138> Sediment shifting...
15:24:40  <andythenorth> rivers :P
15:24:52  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh approved pull request #7097: Fix: enable DPI-awareness for MINGW builds
15:25:00  <andythenorth> just walk them back up from the coast, add some random extra tiles when they turn
15:25:02  <andythenorth> profit
15:25:03  <andythenorth> move on :P
15:25:05  <andythenorth> liveries UI!
15:25:13  <peter1138> When the terrain generator can reproduce cheddar gorge I'll be impressed.
15:25:21  <andythenorth> cheddar's not all that
15:25:24  <andythenorth> I mean it's nice
15:25:27  <peter1138> Grand canyon.
15:25:33  <nielsm> I also want to have unfillable ocean tiles
15:25:40  <andythenorth> cheddar would fit in 64x64
15:25:46  <andythenorth> if you left out the lake
15:25:49  <peter1138> There used to be deep-ocean patches.
15:25:55  <andythenorth> grand canyon is more like 4096x4096
15:26:10  <peter1138> andythenorth, are you applying a scale to this game?
15:26:15  <andythenorth> oops
15:26:15  <nielsm> yeah, deep ocean and that's required for oil fields
15:26:31  <planetmaker> why? </bikeshed>
15:26:31  <peter1138> Maybe that can be resurrected. It was kinda cool.
15:26:34  <nielsm> kill the trains to oil fields!
15:26:44  <andythenorth> :P
15:26:46  <nielsm> (I do it all the time myself)
15:27:00  <peter1138> Urgh, yes... "valid gameplay" :/
15:27:01  <andythenorth> so how do I reverse the ship pathfinder?
15:27:04  <planetmaker> we've FISH for that :)
15:27:09  <andythenorth> so it always starts on coast tile, and goes uphill?
15:27:22  <peter1138>  [12:05pm] peter1138: someone archive this convo please, for 5 years time when i decide to revisit it
15:27:25  <peter1138> Perfect.
15:27:42  <andythenorth> I've archived that too :P
15:27:49  <planetmaker> hm?
15:27:59  <planetmaker> ah
15:28:15  <peter1138> My comment about the docks ...
15:28:26  <nielsm> if I suddenly stop participating it's because of birds taking control of my hands
15:28:30  <peter1138> That would fix up the need for 6296
15:31:59  <peter1138> Maybe I should look at that after... er... everything else.
15:32:39  <peter1138> I should try to find my multistop docks patch, that was necessary for it.
15:35:18  <andythenorth> flat docks
15:35:21  <peter1138> Quite.
15:35:43  <andythenorth> allegedly it's already in the spec
15:36:04  <andythenorth> but only for TTDP
15:36:06  * andythenorth looks
15:36:36  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #6925: Fix #6574 #6636 #5405 #6493: Aircraft hangar issues
15:37:12  <nielsm> have there been experiments with stations having capacity for waiting cargo?
15:37:47  <peter1138> Rather than 'unlimited'?
15:37:54  <nielsm> yes
15:38:18  <nielsm> and making many decorative station elements be meaningful
15:39:10  <andythenorth> boom
15:39:15  <andythenorth> I knew I didn't hallucinate it
15:39:16  <andythenorth>
15:39:20  <andythenorth> frosch told me years ago
15:39:26  <andythenorth> ID 04 in action 3
15:39:41  <andythenorth> dunno if that was ever implemented anywhere, or if it's just wiki wishful thinking
15:39:57  <andythenorth>
15:40:27  <peter1138> nielsm, probably not but it's a good idea.
15:40:42  <peter1138> It would limit those single bus stops with thousands of waiting passengers...
15:40:48  <peter1138> s/would/could/
15:42:03  <peter1138> Maybe for 2.0 :)
15:42:31  <andythenorth>
15:43:54  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7078: Feature: Raise a corner of land automatically when building aqueducts
15:44:20  <supermop_work_> flat docks are nice for those insane polish servers with flat rivers everywhere but insane track costs and unfathomable terraforming costs
15:44:34  <Samu> about blocking routes because of AI behaviour, I accept that AI authors would need to take more care about where they build their stuff. That I understand.
15:44:53  <supermop_work_> where the only way to make money is a horde of hovercraft around Gdansk
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15:49:31  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #6322: AI can allocate more memory than the system has, crashing the game
15:50:01  <Samu> talking about #6927 being closed. I'm okay with this.
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15:50:46  <Samu> #6926 is the one that hurts me most :|
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15:52:46  <Samu> not even the aqueduct
15:54:57  <peter1138> Arguably, I'd say completely remove the 3rd tile check, and leave it up to the player.
15:55:22  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #6603: Insert XDG_DATA_DIRS into data loading path
15:55:23  <peter1138> Maybe keep it for AI.
15:55:58  <planetmaker> keeping it for AI would ... be somewhat unfair towards AI. But might make sense nonetheless
15:56:20  <peter1138> planetmaker, just thinking about expecting current behaviour.
15:56:32  <peter1138> Could be toggleable for them.
15:56:39  <planetmaker> The AI wouldn't mind, I guess
15:56:49  <Samu> AI's would have to adapt :o
15:56:58  <planetmaker> Just players who swear when an AI involuntarily blocks passage by these means
15:57:27  <peter1138> That can happen by raising/lowering land anyway.
15:57:46  <planetmaker> yes. So by that argument that's a non-issue
15:57:49  <peter1138> But yeah, single dock tile _next_ to water would be my solution to that :)
15:58:22  <planetmaker> we should have docks which don't extend into the water but are built simply on the coast tiles
15:58:25  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7098: Crash: cannot dereference end map/set iterator
15:58:25  <planetmaker> moorings(?)
15:58:44  <peter1138> planetmaker, right. That's where my comment in that ticket andythenorth linked to earlier was going.
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15:59:03  <planetmaker> ah, I didn't see that
15:59:09  <andythenorth> the building on the aqueduct exit tile blocks the exit
15:59:14  <andythenorth> with no remedy
15:59:45  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #7097: Fix: enable DPI-awareness for MINGW builds
15:59:47  <andythenorth> I don't mind if we allow blocking
16:00:08  <andythenorth> BUT it makes no sense in context of these other boil-the-ocean PRs about preventing blocking
16:00:09  <peter1138> Hmm, 4pm.
16:00:13  <andythenorth> like, decide what we want, or something
16:00:42  <peter1138> Quite.
16:00:46  <peter1138> I want to go home.
16:00:52  <andythenorth> I permit you to
16:00:59  <andythenorth> tell them I said you could
16:01:44  * planetmaker just arrived home :)
16:04:34  <peter1138> nielsm, hmm, I thought we already did some XDG stuff. Is it DATA_DIRS specifically?
16:04:57  <Samu> you can't block a dock ith aqueduct
16:05:00  <Samu> with
16:05:10  <Samu> the slope doesn't permit it
16:05:16  <Samu> and they have no foundations
16:05:47  <Samu> it would force the 2nd dock tile to have a non flat slope
16:05:52  <nielsm> peter1138 I didn't actually check
16:05:53  <Samu> can't happen
16:05:56  <nielsm> :D
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16:06:35  <planetmaker> Samu, what about this suggestion: we do not care whether a waterway path is being blocked by any building (players and AI can take care of that - not OpenTTD's task. It's the same as with road building basically)
16:07:08  <planetmaker> but we can agree on removing most building restrictions for docks and aqueducts.
16:07:35  <planetmaker> So not special casing the build places, but only blocking building when really absolutely needed
16:07:57  <planetmaker> as to really make things a bit simpler
16:19:44  <Samu> that's ok, but most of the AIs will relly on the old behaviour which checks the 3rd tile
16:20:03  <Samu> ai authors would have to update them
16:20:35  <Samu> well, can't have it all
16:20:42  <planetmaker> arguably that's correct, yes
16:22:11  <Samu> i have come to accept that ais are just like human players after all
16:22:19  <Samu> if they build it wrong
16:22:27  <Samu> its their fault :(
16:23:09  <planetmaker> well... yes. Adopt or amend an AI library which does these checks for them. And AIs just need to use that library
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16:24:46  <Samu> you mean, keep the old behaviour just for the AIs, but create a new build behaviour for humans?
16:25:32  <planetmaker> AI can use libraries which can implement tasks many AI authors need.
16:25:41  <planetmaker> OpenTTD would not need to make a difference itself
16:28:54  <Samu> i see, hmm so there should be a notice about behaviour change somewhere in the noAI api
16:29:25  <planetmaker> maybe
16:29:35  <planetmaker> though none of the calls themselves changes
16:30:43  <Samu> the return value of builddock, erm... let me find the correct name
16:31:01  <planetmaker> it still returns allowed or not allowed
16:31:08  <planetmaker> just more often allowed
16:32:02  <Samu>
16:32:12  <Samu> yes, that
16:32:44  <Samu> well, then there's nothing to do on the ai api side
16:32:48  <peter1138> Yay, cheap bike lights with dodgy USB sockets :/
16:33:21  <Samu> it's gonna be up to ai authors to adapt their code to the new behaviour
16:33:39  <Samu> as much as it saddens me, because most are inactive
16:33:56  <planetmaker> yes... that saddens me, too
16:35:00  <peter1138> I've seen savegames where AIs block their own stuff anyway...
16:36:16  <glx> most AIs start like it's a new game on loading
16:40:45  <Samu> will the pier tile require water?
16:41:04  <Samu> or will it build a canal if it's missing water?
16:42:23  <andythenorth> I would rather ease the building restrictions
16:42:36  <andythenorth> than nott
16:42:52  <andythenorth> people will complain about MP griefing, but eh
16:42:53  <andythenorth> what's new?
16:44:00  <Samu> I got another project related to canal ownership on hold, didn't PR it because the changes are kinda massive
16:45:12  <Samu> in it, i made all water based constructions to automaticaly build a canal underneath the structures if it is missing water
16:45:44  <Samu> building in land is more fluid, but ultimately, ais in their current state, will suffer
16:46:03  <andythenorth> so a dock will place water under it?
16:46:24  <Samu> yes, but also set the owner of the water tile
16:46:37  <Samu> it's not just a single owner now
16:46:43  <Samu> will have 2 owners
16:46:55  <Samu> dock owner, and canal owner
16:47:07  <Samu> much like roads
16:47:13  <Samu> and drive through stations
16:47:17  <Samu> can have 2 owners
16:47:52  <andythenorth> I am +1 to easing building
16:48:04  <andythenorth> also more of this :P,%204th%20Mar%202183.png
16:49:36  <Samu> there's just an issue, a big one, about what to do these water canals if one removes the structure
16:49:41  <Samu> keep the canal?
16:49:47  <Samu> create a bare land
16:49:48  <Samu> ?
16:49:53  <planetmaker> bare land
16:50:01  <glx> andythenorth: canal around the land ?
16:50:06  <planetmaker> you build water, if required. You destroy water when it is removed
16:50:33  <Samu> but in the majority of cases, I don't want the water to be cleared
16:50:54  <Samu> it's a dilema
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16:52:38  <glx> hmm looking at this screenshot I agree with nielsm, more space needed under aqueduct for road or tracks
16:53:08  <Samu> it's an issue about consistency, demolishing a ship depot built on canal tiles in current openttd version still keeps the canals
16:53:45  <Samu> i like this behaviour more than a bare land being created, but at the same time
16:54:01  <Samu> if the ship depot is the first structure I'm creating on land and I wanna remove it
16:54:10  <Samu> it's now gonna leave 2 water tiles behind
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16:54:45  <andythenorth> glx: canal around the land
16:54:59  <glx> expensive ;)
16:55:09  <andythenorth> it's my older child
16:55:12  <andythenorth> he wasn't sure of money
16:55:16  <andythenorth> short *
16:55:26  <glx> but smart
16:55:28  * andythenorth builds airports on sea with canal tiles
16:55:47  <nielsm> glx yeah it's just an issue of "does the ship float on top of a 5 cm deep puddle of water?"
16:56:30  <planetmaker> lool @ screenshot
16:56:35  <nielsm> and similarly perhaps it should not be possible to tunnel directly below rivers/canals either
16:56:37  <planetmaker> but yes... I've built such already as well
16:56:54  <glx> for me it's more like can the vehicle under really go without touching
16:57:37  <glx> aqueduct seems thicker than other bridges
16:59:14  <glx> hmm for tunnels it's different, they can go deeper without anybody notice ;)
16:59:18  <glx> like in real life
16:59:52  <nielsm> right, just assume that tunnel and any crossing below it fall some additional height
16:59:58  <glx> anything could happen between entry an exit
17:00:04  <nielsm> "wormhole"
17:00:45  <glx> in ETS2 there's even tunnels making loops in scandinavia
17:02:54  <Samu> that's gonna make aqueducts even harder to build in-land :|
17:02:59  <glx> but in the screenshot the aqueduct really feel very low
17:03:02  <Samu> requiring 2 tile height
17:03:48  <Samu> raising 2 levels with locks alone require 3 * 2 tiles
17:04:01  <Taede> <-- so if a canal should be 2 tiles high, how low should a coalmine be?
17:05:00  <glx> :)
17:05:08  <Samu> is this why you want foundations?
17:06:04  <glx> wow orudg.e is featured in this one
17:07:05  <Samu> i also have a patch about aqueducts requiring a min height of 2, let me dig
17:07:35  <glx> you sound like peter with your "I have a patch" :)
17:09:30  <Samu>
17:09:41  <Samu> the 2nd post
17:10:06  <Samu> makes it much much harder to raise 2 levels of land
17:10:24  <Samu> harder to build, too many constraints
17:11:52  <Samu> oh, i see it only applies to locks
17:12:34  <Samu> upper lock tile requires a bridge height of 2
17:12:43  <Samu> lower lock tile requires a briddge height of 3
17:16:06  <Samu> just the number of locks and space requires to build an aqueduct over a lock behind... it's bad, doesn't facilitate canal construction at all
17:16:15  <Samu> below*
17:16:49  <Samu> sorry about my typos
17:28:57  <Samu> gonna try posting aircraft hangar issues a PR at a time
17:29:07  <Samu> which will trigger andythenorth anyway :|
17:29:33  <andythenorth> post one and see if it gets reviewed :)
17:30:51  <Samu> will decouple the fixes into single PR's
17:31:51  <glx> but yes one "feature" per PR is better
17:36:42  <LordAro> i have no issues with multiple fixes per pr, as long as they're in distinct commits
17:38:10  <peter1138> Evening.
17:38:40  *** gelignite has joined #openttd
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17:42:56  <peter1138> Deponia: The Complete Journey is free on HumbleBundle for a limited time.
17:43:11  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #7099: Fix #6574: Go to takeoff if no hangar
17:44:21  <peter1138> That grammar though.
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17:53:23  <TrueBrain> nielsm: it seems all Squirrel memory functions end up in a single file. And strictly seen we have a global telling which VM is active
17:53:33  <TrueBrain> would it be bad to abuse that knowledge? As that would make for a relative easy fix
17:53:37  <TrueBrain> just .. not really thread-safe :D
17:54:00  <peter1138> Is it threaded?
17:54:19  <TrueBrain> given there is a global to instance which instance is active, I doubt it
17:54:21  <TrueBrain> but I havent checked
17:55:58  <peter1138> I suppose if they have access to map or object info, threaded would probably not work well.
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17:57:22  <TrueBrain> it is more that Squirrel itself seems thread-safe. So adding code that breaks that, might do more harm
17:57:48  <peter1138> *nod*
18:02:34  <TrueBrain> if I would be able to find what is new in Squirrel 3, it might be worth looking adding this to upstream, to fix properly
18:02:43  <TrueBrain> as it is not that difficult, just touching a lot of code, from what I can tell
18:05:46  <Samu> god damn dereference ...
18:05:52  <Samu> :|
18:06:12  <Samu> well, i'll test in release build
18:06:44  <LordAro> Samu: maybe you should fix that bug first :D
18:06:45  <TrueBrain> seems it is not that much different .. just some new things got added ..
18:06:50  *** Gja has joined #openttd
18:07:12  <Samu> it's not my bug
18:07:16  <LordAro> TrueBrain: mm, i was doing some digging last night, there's not a lot that's changed
18:07:35  <TrueBrain> 'free' variables is the new thing in 3, it seems
18:07:37  <TrueBrain> what-ever that is :D
18:07:56  <LordAro> i couldn't find any sort of migration guide, other tham a few scattered forum posts about things not working with 3
18:08:00  <TrueBrain> might be worth updating to 3.1; then we can upstream a patch to lock memory to the vm
18:08:15  <LordAro> maybe
18:08:18  <andythenorth> bbl
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18:08:20  <TrueBrain> examples of what is not working?
18:08:57  <LordAro> i'll see if i can find it again
18:09:16  <TrueBrain> the file structure is near identical
18:09:19  <TrueBrain> seems the stdlib is bigger
18:12:13  <TrueBrain> parent, vargc and vargv are no longer keywords
18:12:47  <LordAro> TrueBrain: nope, dunno what i saw before, can't find it now :)
18:13:47  <peter1138> Samu, does #7099 fix aircraft that are already stuck, or just prevent them sticking in the first place?
18:14:59  <TrueBrain> sadly, the github repo starts a bit after 3.0 was released, it seems
18:15:12  <TrueBrain> the lexer shows some differences, but nothing that looks huge
18:16:31  <TrueBrain>
18:16:35  <TrueBrain> was not expecting that name
18:16:39  <TrueBrain> took me WAY too long to find :D
18:17:38  <Samu> peter1138 just prevents them sticking in
18:17:54  <Samu> if they're stuck, they remain stuck
18:17:55  <TrueBrain> -removed 'vargv' and 'vargc' keywords
18:17:55  <TrueBrain> -now var args are passed as an array called vargv(as a paramter)
18:18:03  <TrueBrain> -removed 'parent' keyword
18:18:03  <TrueBrain> -added class getbase() built in method
18:18:38  <peter1138> Wonder if any scripts use them?
18:19:08  <TrueBrain> I do too
18:19:27  <peter1138> Hmm, v3 released 2011 :D
18:23:16  <TrueBrain> might be something for OpenTTD 2.0 :P
18:23:19  <TrueBrain> together with NRT? :D
18:23:28  <peter1138> Hmm.
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18:31:42  <Samu> how am i gonna explain that some of the changes only make sense together... :|
18:31:50  <Samu> i'm falling into this hole again
18:33:00  <Samu> you want to review them separately :|
18:33:11  <Samu> then questions arise
18:33:42  <Samu> then it's rejected based on its own, the rest of the changes become meaningless
18:34:04  <Samu> ok
18:34:22  <Samu> I can already see all this rejected...
18:34:30  <Samu> but will pr anyway
18:34:45  <peter1138> Explain it by itself.
18:36:51  <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> Deponia: The Complete Journey is free on HumbleBundle for a limited time. <- "unfortunately" i already have that..
18:37:14  <Eddi|zuHause> also, can that even still be called "complete"? i think it was only parts 1-3, not 4
18:37:28  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #7100: Fix #6574: Remove go to hangar orders when rebuilding airport
18:38:15  <Samu> #7100 for example
18:38:54  <Samu> I am cancelling manual send to depot orders
18:39:03  <Samu> on its own, it's pointless
18:39:25  <Samu> the aircraft will still go flying around the airport
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18:41:36  <andythenorth> well
18:42:38  <Samu> my other part of the code, would be making the airplane do automatic service at another airport than the next in the orders
18:43:26  <Samu> it was a manual order, I know, but it's cancelled
18:43:40  <Samu> allowing it to trigger automatic service
18:43:55  <Samu> it just requires my other part of the code there to actually start making sense
18:45:04  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7100: Fix #6574: Remove go to hangar orders when rebuilding airport
18:47:11  <andythenorth> so I owe some reviews? o_O
18:47:37  <peter1138> You don't owe anything.
18:47:57  <andythenorth> apparently not
18:48:00  <andythenorth> you did the review
18:48:56  <peter1138> Review on what?
18:49:22  <andythenorth> website stuff
18:49:29  <peter1138> Oh that was HOURS ago.
18:49:34  <andythenorth> things move fast here
18:49:38  <andythenorth> keep up andythenorth
18:49:59  <peter1138> Who wants to watch me dev?
18:50:13  <andythenorth> you streaming? :P
18:50:28  <andythenorth> I watched nielsm play OpenTTD :P
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18:51:34  <Samu> peter1138 by "remove" I meant mark it invalidated, my bad
18:51:54  <Samu> let me show screenshot
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18:52:03  <peter1138> Samu, so "RemoveOrderFromAllVehicles" doesn't remove orders?
18:52:18  <Samu> the function is named like that
18:52:31  <glx> hmm I think I have an idea for the deadlock, need to try it
18:52:31  <Samu> but it actually creates (Invalid Order) entry
18:52:46  <peter1138> Haha
18:53:26  <peter1138> The only thing is, what happens if you change your mind and replace the airport with one that does have a hangar?
18:53:51  <Samu> remains an invalid order
18:54:05  <andythenorth> isn't there some 30 day thing for that already?
18:54:26  <andythenorth> reminds me about
18:54:26  <peter1138> andythenorth, for removed stations/depots, yes.
18:54:30  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7100: Fix #6574: Remove go to hangar orders when rebuilding airport
18:54:39  <andythenorth> building an airport without a hangar is removing a depot
18:54:46  <andythenorth> unless it's put back within the time limit
18:54:50  <andythenorth> otherwise order is invalid
18:54:55  <andythenorth> I assume I missed a memo :P
18:55:37  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i had the exact same thought
18:55:38  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: feel like updating 7051? o_O
18:55:41  <peter1138> There is that.
18:55:58  <peter1138> I wonder if it's treated differently because it's part of the airport.
18:55:59  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i only just noticed. maybe it should send out a notification?
18:56:06  <andythenorth> if only there was a bot
18:56:14  <Samu> hold on, im coming up with screenshots
18:56:31  <andythenorth> deliveroo, or should I cook?
18:56:54  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7100: Fix #6574: Remove go to hangar orders when rebuilding airport
18:57:44  <andythenorth> so where do hangars exist?
18:57:50  <andythenorth> in the map
18:57:59  <Samu> they're "stations"
18:58:01  <Eddi|zuHause> they're depot tiles
18:58:04  <Eddi|zuHause> i think
18:58:27  <Samu> tile type is station
18:58:29  <andythenorth> but they don't trigger 'invalid order'?
18:58:45  <andythenorth> fix the root cause, replicate existing behaviour from elsewhere
18:58:53  <andythenorth> don't add new behaviour if not needed
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18:59:46  * andythenorth cooks, deliveroo is expensive
19:00:17  <Samu> it's what happens when you remove a depot for a train, let me verify
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19:00:34  <Eddi|zuHause> "your branch master is 54 commits behind origin/master" are you really moving this fast lately?
19:00:40  <andythenorth> supermop_work_: yo
19:01:48  <Samu> yep
19:02:01  <peter1138> But deliveroo!
19:02:14  <Samu>
19:02:26  <Samu> demolished train depot, it became Invalid Order immediately
19:02:52  <Samu> i don't really invalidate it on demolish, only when the rebuilt airport doesn't have hangar
19:02:52  <Eddi|zuHause> i hate patches with savegame bump, they're always conflicting when they're not merged quickly
19:03:12  <Samu> it's more forgiving
19:03:35  <andythenorth> so 7051 changes train depot behaviour to be more forgiving
19:03:47  <andythenorth> I am +1 to not invalidating immediately
19:03:59  <andythenorth> it supports airport closure + replacement
19:04:19  <andythenorth> so waypoints and stations are invalidated on ~30 days
19:06:10  <peter1138> Only train?
19:06:21  <peter1138> What about road vehicles and ships?
19:06:41  <peter1138> If it works for all types, then that's a better solution than Samu's.
19:09:07  <andythenorth> probably works for RVs and ships?
19:09:08  <Samu> i'm not sure what 7051 do about hangars, let me look
19:09:12  <andythenorth> I only tested trains :x
19:09:21  <andythenorth> code looks like it's generic?
19:09:53  <peter1138> May not be because, again, hangars are removed different from depots for other types.
19:10:46  <Eddi|zuHause> we need a more git friendly way of handling savegame bumps
19:11:20  <peter1138> It's mostly okay but yes, it'd be nice to not have to replicate numbers everywhere.
19:11:43  *** Gja has joined #openttd
19:12:05  <peter1138> Maybe an enum of when a change is introduced. Then you just need to resolve the conflict in one place.
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19:12:49  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that giant comment above SAVEGAME_VERSION might be turned into an enum
19:14:18  <nielsm> overkill solution: every savegame change has a GUID associated, every savegame contains a full list of all the GUIDs applicable to its data
19:16:08  <peter1138> Not sure what advantages that has.
19:16:51  <nielsm> orthogonal changes don't affect each other, doesn't need serialisation
19:18:01  <peter1138> Maybe a PR? ;)
19:18:07  <nielsm> yeah right :D
19:18:33  <peter1138> Not sure how you'd handle savegame conversion.
19:19:32  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: the "before" check turns into "does not have GUID"
19:19:39  <peter1138> Or, indeed, handle future data changes.
19:20:12  <peter1138> It'd be neat, don't get me wrong. I'm all about the negativity :p
19:20:41  <peter1138> Hmm, how do I resize a window without changing its minimum size?
19:21:11  <Samu> cloning repository
19:21:16  <Samu> building...
19:21:23  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: change its default size, reopen with new default size?
19:21:45  <andythenorth> did anyone make any PRs for Iron Horse? o_O
19:21:49  <andythenorth> eh I should move it to github
19:21:56  <andythenorth> then people draw all my sprites, right?
19:22:04  <LordAro> that's how open source works, yes
19:22:48  <Eddi|zuHause> that's how mafia works? sorry, i had to
19:22:53  <andythenorth> meanwhile
19:22:55  <andythenorth> pixels
19:23:27  <Samu> 7051 doesn't remove the hangar from the order after 30 days
19:23:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm unsure what the conflict in order_cmd means
19:23:35  <Samu> i replaced helidepot to heliport~
19:23:49  <Eddi|zuHause> need to look at both original commits
19:25:13  <Eddi|zuHause> and this saveload mess prevents me from handling this conflict individually
19:25:19  <Eddi|zuHause> gonna abort this
19:25:41  <Samu> hangars are a different speciment of depot
19:25:59  <Samu> can't be decoupled from their airport
19:26:28  <peter1138> ;p
19:26:45  <peter1138> Hmm, so much latency.
19:27:30  <LordAro> "Category: Open Transport Tycoon Deluxe" TRIGGERED
19:28:21  <Eddi|zuHause> i like how on twitch you can skip ads with f5
19:28:36  <andythenorth> can I? :O
19:28:36  <peter1138> Yeah, I know, I emailed them about that a while ago and then forgot about it.
19:28:43  <andythenorth> I had to watch an ad
19:28:58  <peter1138> In fact I didn't even set it now, it was from when I last fiddled with twitch.
19:30:55  <LordAro> we're missing the top of your screen, btw
19:31:16  <peter1138> Oh?
19:31:18  <LordAro> wait, crap
19:31:23  <peter1138> Looks alright for me.
19:31:24  <LordAro> ...i was scrolled down
19:31:26  <peter1138> :D :D
19:31:32  <andythenorth> just give me all the train sprites for the group
19:31:36  <andythenorth> and a crayon tool
19:31:46  <LordAro> damn sticky headers confusing me about where the top of the page is
19:32:14  <peter1138> Hmm, wonder the list starts empty :/
19:32:20  <peter1138> Yeah, they're annoying
19:32:34  <peter1138> Oh, this is that 5000 ship savegame that used to be horribly slow.
19:32:50  <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> can I? :O <-- yeah, twitch shows you an ad the first time you visit the site, but not the 2nd time. which is the reverse of youtube, btw.
19:32:52  <LordAro> very nice
19:33:21  <peter1138> Got rid of the checkboxes from the livery window, now has "default" in the dropdown list.
19:34:08  <peter1138> Interesting bug!
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19:37:39  <Samu> cherry-pick is awesome
19:37:45  <Samu> just discovered it
19:37:56  <peter1138> Haha, yes.
19:45:40  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #7101: Fix #6636: Airplanes could be sent to helicopter station depots
19:48:27  <peter1138> Hmm, need to set initial scroll position.
19:48:47  <peter1138> And also, cook dinner.
19:52:33  <Gabda> it is quiet in the stream
19:53:18  <Gabda> are all 7 viewers from here? :)
19:53:30  <LordAro> almost certainly
19:57:53  <nielsm> constant buffering for me :(
19:58:13  <Gabda> Can I have a WIP tag on PR 7047 and 7025?
19:58:56  <nielsm> done
19:59:07  <Gabda> I am making a 3rd solution for the same problem
19:59:39  <Gabda> that was fast, thank you :)
20:00:01  <nielsm>  <-- I think we should just integrate this? anyone opposed?
20:01:33  <LordAro> nielsm: works for me, go for it
20:01:58  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh approved pull request #7077: Change: Always build baseset metadata, instead of including it in the repo.
20:02:26  <LordAro> vast majority of it is for VS
20:02:36  <LordAro> so as long as someone's tested that :p
20:03:09  <Samu> an unexpected conflict :|
20:03:33  *** Gabda has quit IRC
20:03:37  <Samu> ship cache conflicting in
20:03:49  <Samu> gonna solve
20:04:31  *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd
20:05:49  <nielsm> peter1138: merge your own pr :)
20:06:20  *** Simons_Mith has joined #openttd
20:06:49  <Simons_Mith> ...
20:07:08  <nielsm> hello
20:07:19  <nielsm> people are here and active, just not in this minute
20:07:52  <Simons_Mith> Was very busy late yesterday
20:08:50  <Samu> ah
20:08:59  <Samu> dest_tile is now SetDestTile
20:09:03  <Samu> a->SetDestTile(a->GetOrderStationLocation(destination));
20:09:07  <Samu> solved
20:10:12  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #7102: Fix: Direct the aircraft to the correct location of the hangar when s…
20:11:24  <Samu> i think that one deserves a savegame to demonstrate the bug
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20:14:59  <glx> I think I solved the deadlock, will PR
20:15:49  <LordAro> woo
20:18:53  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7102: Fix: Direct the aircraft to the correct location of the hangar when s…
20:19:40  *** Wormnest has quit IRC
20:20:06  <Simons_Mith> I was pondering the naming of depots.
20:20:16  <Simons_Mith> (Well it passes the time)
20:20:26  <peter1138> Ah harrr, now I'm back, but I've gotta eat :p
20:20:44  <Simons_Mith> I would have thought the first depot in a town would just be called 'depot'.
20:20:59  <Simons_Mith> There aren't any others, so there's no ambiguity,
20:21:33  <Simons_Mith> But in-game, for understandable reasons, our companies depandtically name every depot as RV/Train or whatever
20:21:46  <Simons_Mith> er, pedantically
20:22:44  <Simons_Mith> I was mulling putting custom code in to strip the redudant bit out, for the first depot in a town.
20:23:36  <Simons_Mith> Would mean that if you built a train depot first in one town and an RV epot first in aother, they'd both be called ABC Depot and DEF Depot.
20:23:55  <Simons_Mith> Little buit more verismilitude, little bit less consistency.
20:24:03  <Simons_Mith> Good? Bad?
20:24:20  <Eddi|zuHause> <nielsm> have there been experiments with stations having capacity for waiting cargo? <-- the suggestion has been around for a bit, but i have no recollection of anyone actually trying it. main problem is, how do you handle it for people who don't have any station newgrfs loaded?
20:24:32  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #7103: Fix #7007: deadlock when launched  with -n switch
20:26:11  <nielsm> Eddi|zuHause: I suppose you'd have to supply some base "warehouse" expansions to stations, or just only enable limited capacity stations if any newgrf supporting it are loaded
20:26:20  <Simons_Mith> [I am looking at game strings in geranl again, actually. Per this old thread:
20:26:32  <Simons_Mith> *general
20:28:48  <glx> maybe use the closer station name as reference
20:29:14  <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: next thing is, people will want to disable the default station, if they want to introduce some stricter limits in their own station set
20:30:33  <glx> hmm there's a extra space in my commit message
20:30:40  <peter1138> Add a default capacity per station tile (maybe differ per type, as well)
20:31:02  <nielsm> yeah that too
20:31:31  <nielsm> roadside stops have lower capacity than bus stations e.g.
20:31:42  <glx> or it's DorpsGek_II
20:31:53  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i'm assuming here that the default station gets some generic "good for any cargo" limit, and the newgrfs can differentiate that by cargo type/class
20:32:29  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, yeah, I'd say so.
20:32:42  <peter1138> Though bus stops are obviously passenger only?
20:32:55  <LordAro> glx: it does indeed have an extra space :p
20:33:04  <LordAro> looks like all the webstuff suppresses it
20:33:07  <glx> yeah fixing
20:34:47  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7103: Fix #7007: deadlock when launched  with -n switch
20:34:49  <LordAro> oh, that's a very simple change
20:34:52  <LordAro> :)
20:35:22  <glx> yes and I midified the comment a little while fixing the commit message
20:35:29  <glx> *modified
20:35:58  <glx> it's better with a "while"
20:37:23  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7103: Fix #7007: deadlock when launched  with -n switch
20:37:36  <LordAro> oh, the CI is borked again
20:37:39  <LordAro> azure is much sad
20:38:27  <glx> at first I though it would be way harder to fix the deadlock, but was simple when the idea came :)
20:39:36  <glx> these can be very nasty to fix
20:40:51  <LordAro> yeah
20:41:29  <peter1138> Ok so... set a scrollbar position.
20:43:24  <Simons_Mith> BTW I generally take silence/no direct respose to mean 'nobody hates the idea'. Is that a reasonable assumption? Or is it wiser to canvas for an actual positive acknowledgement?
20:43:56  <glx> indeed :)
20:44:48  <glx> unless it's a very bad idea we rarely hate stuff
20:45:03  <glx> well not until we see the PR
20:45:28  <peter1138> We only hate Samu's stuff by default ;)
20:46:37  <Simons_Mith> Well now that pull requests are a thing it's much easier to get a suggestion into a hateable state.
20:47:17  <Simons_Mith> I think I'll start by resurrcting the copy refinements from that old thread.
20:47:24  <glx> like, if you were suggesting some kind of multi threading in game engine, the answer would be more direct :)
20:47:35  <Simons_Mith> I presume breaking it into reasonably bite size chunks is wise?
20:48:53  <glx> as long as each commit is buildable and works by itself
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20:49:40  <Simons_Mith> What's your preference on putting currently unused 'hooks' in for future stuff?
20:50:19  <peter1138> Depends how soon you think it'll be used.
20:50:24  <glx> it's ok in preparation phase I think
20:50:40  <glx> like if it's used by next commit ;)
20:50:49  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] fibbo commented on issue #7043: Disconnected towns during world generation
20:51:03  <peter1138> I once did it, in preparation for a commit later in the week. By the time I got there it'd been reverted, and that feature never happened.
20:51:32  <glx> but it was in svn time
20:51:45  <glx> with git it's easier
20:51:54  <LordAro> it wouldn't have been merged nowadays ;)
20:51:56  <peter1138> True.
20:56:14  <TrueBrain> my poor mailbox .. maybe I should unsubscribe from getting an email for any activity on any OpenTTD repo ..
20:56:52  <peter1138> Filter it into its own mailbox.
20:57:00  <peter1138> Sieve++
20:57:22  <TrueBrain> it already is; but I just mark them all as read now :P
20:57:55  *** Borg has quit IRC
20:57:57  <glx> hey I just get email for stuff I touched
20:58:14  <TrueBrain> it is optional :)
20:58:21  <glx> I know
20:58:29  <TrueBrain> why is Azure Pipelines triggering such a pain?
20:59:08  <glx> because it's the free version
21:00:14  <TrueBrain> its really weird .. sometimes things don't want to queue .. but the timing is highly irregular
21:01:26  <TrueBrain> lolz ... I named the new binary -docs-source.tar.xz
21:01:31  <TrueBrain> we also have -source.tar.xz
21:01:37  <TrueBrain> and the build system is now confused which I mean :D
21:01:43  <peter1138> o_O
21:02:04  *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd
21:02:07  <TrueBrain> (as it downloads all artifacts ending with -source.tar.xz)
21:02:09  <TrueBrain> how annoying :D
21:02:16  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
21:02:56  <TrueBrain> how to fix that .. hmmm
21:03:28  <peter1138> -docs-src.tar.xz
21:04:53  <TrueBrain> :D That is cheating :P
21:04:57  <TrueBrain>     itemPattern: 'bundles/openttd-*-source.tar.xz'
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21:14:39  <peter1138> Sometimes, I wish I knew what I was doing...
21:14:49  <nnyby> lol
21:15:02  <TrueBrain> don't we all
21:15:26  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain opened pull request #24: Fix: [release-docs] name the source docs just '-docs.tar.xz'
21:15:28  <peter1138> So I can select a group when opening the window, but when changing the selection with an existing window, it wipes out the list completely :/
21:15:36  <TrueBrain> peter1138: I just removed the -source part completely. As .. why not .. :D
21:15:44  <peter1138> TrueBrain, cheating is sometimes easiest :D
21:16:13  <TrueBrain> all other solutions I found were more terrible :P
21:16:20  <peter1138> TrueBrain, an update for the download descriptions too?
21:16:26  <TrueBrain> it already knows this one :)
21:16:30  <TrueBrain> I can remove the now unneeded, I guess
21:16:32  <peter1138> Ah okay.
21:16:43  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/CompileFarm] PeterN approved pull request #24: Fix: [release-docs] name the source docs just '-docs.tar.xz'
21:17:46  <peter1138> LordAro, ah yes, #7077 does work for VS, I do have VS here ;)
21:17:58  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain opened pull request #39: Remove: -docs-source.tar.xz was never in production
21:18:13  <TrueBrain> right, it is indeed nicer to remove that entry :)
21:18:17  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] PeterN approved pull request #39: Remove: -docs-source.tar.xz was never in production
21:18:31  <peter1138> You'll be wondering what it is for later on down the line...
21:18:37  <TrueBrain> I tried starting VS the other day .. it was telling me my license expired ... gave up after that :P
21:19:42  *** Thedarkb1-T60 has joined #openttd
21:20:35  <TrueBrain> funny, Visual Studio Code found the VS, and is now using the cl.exe :P
21:21:51  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain merged pull request #39: Remove: -docs-source.tar.xz was never in production
21:22:42  <andythenorth> now what
21:22:49  * andythenorth played tanks for a bit
21:23:42  <TrueBrain> NOOOO
21:23:47  <TrueBrain> stop wasting your time on tanks!
21:24:01  <TrueBrain> owh, it is friday
21:24:03  <TrueBrain> no, it is okay
21:24:04  <andythenorth> it's like 1 hour this week
21:24:13  <TrueBrain> GO KILL OTHER TANKS PLZ :D
21:24:14  <andythenorth> in 2018 I was playing like
21:24:23  <andythenorth> @calc 5 * 5 + 20
21:24:23  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 45
21:24:25  <andythenorth> oof
21:24:26  <andythenorth> that's a lot
21:24:33  <TrueBrain> per day?
21:24:34  <TrueBrain> per week?
21:24:36  <TrueBrain> per year?
21:24:39  <andythenorth> 45 hours per day yes
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21:24:49  <TrueBrain> that made the most sense to me too yes
21:24:57  <TrueBrain> playing tanks against yourself
21:24:59  <TrueBrain> and losing
21:25:00  <TrueBrain> sad
21:25:52  <andythenorth> can GS trigger towns building stuff?
21:26:05  * andythenorth was looking at
21:26:11  <andythenorth> also Samu's town growth ships thing
21:26:22  <andythenorth> regressions via GS :P
21:27:27  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain merged pull request #24: Fix: [release-docs] name the source docs just '-docs.tar.xz'
21:29:05  <peter1138> Hrmm!
21:29:45  <peter1138> Why would this->owner be wrong when calling a function externally from a window, but correct within that window?
21:31:18  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #7043: Disconnected towns during world generation
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21:39:10  <glx> different this ?
21:39:39  <peter1138> Same pointer.
21:39:43  <peter1138> Eh, same pointer value.
21:40:04  <peter1138> I'm using BringWindowToFrontById, and then casting the return value of that.
21:40:11  <LordAro> sounds like it's time for some watchpoints
21:41:24  <peter1138> I wonder if cgdb is still hideously slow with our debug builds.
21:41:44  <LordAro> it wasn't too bad for me the other day
21:43:12  <peter1138> this->owner has the same pointer value too... just a different value.
21:45:07  <peter1138> Yeah seems okay now.
21:45:12  <peter1138> Used to take about 3 minutes to start up.
21:45:37  <peter1138> Slows down a bit with a watch on :)
21:45:55  <peter1138> Okay maybe 5000 ships wasn't a good savegame to try it on.
21:46:32  <LordAro> :p
21:47:09  <peter1138> Or at all. Add a watch makes it horrible slow even without leaving that function :/
21:49:35  <peter1138> Oh, it wasn't debug 3
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21:50:46  <peter1138> Yeah, now it takes ages, woo.
21:50:55  <LordAro> ah, lol
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21:53:43  <Samu> it was by pure coincidence
21:54:44  <Samu> talking about
21:54:51  <Samu> it happened right in front of me
21:55:02  <Samu> and during my prevent ship stuff
21:55:14  <Samu> i know, but it's not derived from my stuff
21:55:58  <peter1138> Yeah but do you know the seed?
21:56:07  <Samu> it wouldn't be useful
21:56:26  <Samu> towns generate in different places
21:56:29  <glx> the seed is useful, it determines all random calls
21:57:06  <Samu> erm, no, i mean the seed would only be useful for my prevent town grouth block thing build than the master
21:57:38  <Samu> i tried the same seed on a master build, and the towns are placed differently
21:57:57  <peter1138> Ah okay.
21:57:58  <Samu> kind of expected, due to the different construction rules
21:58:21  <TrueBrain> <- w00p, finally tonight's nightly is published
21:58:41  <TrueBrain> including NoAI and NoGo docs :D
21:58:54  <glx> all automatic ?
21:59:10  <Samu> i followed the code and found it deleting towns with 0 population as they are generated
21:59:17  <Samu> that's where I found it deleting the bridges
22:00:35  <nielsm> concept:
22:00:44  <Samu> a town was generated on some of the free space shown on that screenshot, then removed right away because it generated with 0, but took bridges of nearby towns with it
22:02:03  <peter1138> So this->owner is set to INVALID_COMPANY within FinishInitNested()
22:02:22  <peter1138> So why it is *not* INVALID_COMPANY when I refer to owner within the window? :/
22:02:23  <LordAro> TrueBrain: huzzah
22:02:32  <andythenorth> drawing pretendelino fronts :(
22:02:34  <andythenorth> is hards
22:02:47  <LordAro> that right hand side does look very empty now
22:03:03  <TrueBrain> it does; suggestions are welcome
22:03:11  <LordAro> complete site redesign!
22:03:24  <glx> more screenshots ?
22:03:35  <andythenorth> quite swooshy
22:03:50  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: remove right hand column :P
22:03:52  <andythenorth> increase news space
22:03:54  <andythenorth> profit
22:03:58  <TrueBrain> go for it :P
22:03:59  <LordAro> andythenorth: except not virgin :p
22:04:15  <andythenorth> why not? o_O
22:04:56  <LordAro> they got east coast taken away from them
22:05:08  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: doing it
22:05:34  *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd
22:05:39  <peter1138> hardware watchpoint worked in debug-level 3
22:05:58  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: but but but .. the screenshots!
22:06:14  <andythenorth> well put 4 screenshots there in a column then
22:06:16  <andythenorth> :P
22:06:21  <TrueBrain> \o/
22:06:32  <peter1138> One last crash and then it's ready.
22:06:57  <andythenorth> now I have to learn how the screenshots work :P
22:07:05  <LordAro> needs a bit more effort than just deleting the element, i fear :p
22:07:16  <andythenorth> we need to sample n?
22:07:19  <Samu> this is the code where it deletes 0 population towns upon world generation
22:07:34  * nielsm wants an annoyance-mode for rail signals where they only work within limited distance from a station (and have very significant maintenance cost per individual signal)
22:07:36  <Samu> no, i mean
22:07:37  <andythenorth> LordAro: yeah nobody uses fully justified any more :)
22:07:40  *** Thedarkb-T60 has quit IRC
22:07:50  <Samu> i better post it in the issue, chat a bit busy
22:07:51  <andythenorth> nielsm: force building signal boxes :P
22:07:51  <LordAro> andythenorth: also the header image
22:08:00  <nielsm> andythenorth yep
22:08:01  *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd
22:08:12  <LordAro> Samu: you should always post things relevant to issues... in the issues
22:08:30  <TrueBrain> andythenorth / LordAro: maybe leave it like this, and take longer to make it really better :P
22:08:34  <nielsm> semaphores only work when you have personnel stationed nearby to watch the trains go by and pull those levers!
22:08:48  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: I have learnt the hard way, don't make late changes on Friday, then ship
22:08:56  <andythenorth> :P
22:09:07  <LordAro> andythenorth: surely our equivalent is making late changes on Sunday? :p
22:09:12  <glx> Samu: yeah that should go to the issue, will help others wanting to work on it
22:09:13  <andythenorth> probs
22:09:17  *** Thedarkb1-T60 has quit IRC
22:09:27  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: I am happy to improve, but actually I am brain dead now
22:09:31  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7103: Fix #7007: deadlock when launched  with -n switch
22:09:35  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #7007: Joining server via shortcut causes freeze
22:09:42  * LordAro googles "website designs"
22:09:50  <andythenorth> 99 designs
22:09:51  <andythenorth> fiver
22:09:54  <andythenorth> :P
22:10:09  <andythenorth>
22:10:13  <LordAro> "20 of the best website designs to inspire you in 2018"
22:10:14  <andythenorth> oof ad spam sorry
22:10:18  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: my point :) Lets just release this tomorrow :)
22:10:23  * andythenorth just uses bootstrap for everything
22:10:32  <LordAro> but of course
22:11:44  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on issue #7043: Disconnected towns during world generation
22:12:00  <andythenorth> can we use pointless photos from unsplash?
22:12:06  <andythenorth>
22:12:30  <andythenorth>
22:12:39  <andythenorth>
22:13:08  <TrueBrain> setting unrealistic expectations for the game are we? :P
22:13:15  <TrueBrain> I wonder if planetmaker already got the steam account claimed :D
22:13:19  <andythenorth> this is nope, tracks can't have snow
22:13:37  <andythenorth> nope: curved bridge, tunnel on bridgehead
22:13:51  <andythenorth> nope: elevated metro
22:14:30  <LordAro> they are very nice photos
22:14:46  <peter1138> andythenorth,
22:14:58  <nielsm> works a bit better for simsig, with photos of the real locations simulated :)
22:15:06  <andythenorth> peter1138: what did you do :o
22:15:24  <andythenorth> oof I miss India
22:15:27  <andythenorth> used to go every yeare
22:15:32  <peter1138> andythenorth, I finished it.
22:15:42  * andythenorth fetches
22:17:15  <LordAro> i think i shall play some tanks
22:18:20  <andythenorth> who drew those icons :)
22:18:21  <andythenorth> so bad
22:20:18  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #7104: Fix #5405: Determine the correct last and next destinations and then ensure these are within range of each other
22:20:37  <andythenorth> oh the realism :)
22:22:25  <Samu> the next 5 changes are too difficult to post as different PR's
22:22:37  <Samu> they need to be together
22:22:44  <Samu> they really have
22:22:50  <glx> then keep them together
22:22:53  <Samu> they depend on each other
22:23:21  <glx> if it forms a logical group of commits
22:23:26  <peter1138> Keep together but separate commits.
22:23:40  <Samu> oki
22:24:28  <andythenorth> peter1138: depot was slow to update livery after moving train to a group?
22:24:40  <andythenorth> [rest is pretty awesome, just saying what I see]
22:24:43  <peter1138> Depot... hmm.
22:25:00  <andythenorth> seems like it's not marked dirty
22:25:02  <peter1138> Yeah I guess I need to handle that case.
22:25:06  <andythenorth> I click on it, it updates
22:28:42  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7077: Change: Always build baseset metadata, instead of including it in the repo.
22:29:24  <peter1138> Be 'funny' if everything fails now ;p
22:29:42  <glx> hehe
22:29:42  <peter1138> Would be nice to do the same for the widgets/squirrel exports, too.
22:29:52  <peter1138> I partially got the squirrel exports stuff working.
22:30:05  <peter1138> They need changing because they do in-place modification.
22:31:22  <glx> tempfile and diff ?
22:31:56  <glx> but squirrel export already does that
22:32:11  <peter1138> I mean they replace src/ai/ai_instance.cpp, to do it properly it needs to build from src/ai/ -> src/ai/ai_instance.cpp
22:32:23  <peter1138> Then src/ai/ai_instance.cpp can be removed from the repo.
22:32:29  <peter1138> I have that bit working, actually.
22:32:29  <glx> oh I see
22:32:50  <peter1138> But I'm not sure what a "blank" version of the file should actually contain, as it seems to rely on some of the autogenerated stuff already being there.
22:33:01  <glx> .sq are generated from nothing IIRC
22:33:14  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7104: Fix #5405: Determine the correct last and next destinations and then ensure these are within range of each other
22:33:14  <peter1138> Yes, they are fine.
22:33:29  <peter1138> Just needs a README put in the directory because git can't store empty directories.
22:33:37  <peter1138> And the _controller one is a bit unique too.
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22:34:00  <glx> _controller is not generated
22:34:24  <glx> so it's the "README" ;)
22:39:52  <andythenorth> peter1138:
22:40:05  <andythenorth> sooooo good
22:40:14  <andythenorth> now imagine it with ctrl-click? :D
22:40:33  <LordAro> i am absolutely terrible at this game
22:40:45  <LordAro> took me 4 games to actually hit anyone
22:40:51  <andythenorth> what are you playing?
22:40:54  <LordAro> and that didn't cause damage
22:40:55  <LordAro> tanks
22:41:00  <andythenorth> blitz or war thunder?
22:41:20  <LordAro> world of
22:41:25  <andythenorth> oh that one
22:41:30  <andythenorth> I haven't
22:41:37  <andythenorth> PC only :P
22:41:41  <LordAro> ah lol
22:41:51  <andythenorth> WoT Blitz is multi-platform
22:41:53  <andythenorth> and shorter
22:41:57  <andythenorth> 7 min games
22:41:59  <glx> and fun
22:42:02  <LordAro> heh
22:42:11  <andythenorth> 'fun'
22:42:31  <glx> I tried world of warships
22:42:34  <andythenorth> BAD FEATURE: is there an action 2 var for 'current company colour' (byte)
22:42:35  <andythenorth> ??
22:42:37  <glx> it's too slow
22:42:39  * andythenorth has evil ideas
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22:46:04  <supermop_work_> andythenorth: maybe
22:46:23  <supermop_work_> i recall something like that but may be misremembering
22:46:27  <peter1138> andythenorth, so it's working as you expected it?
22:46:34  <peter1138> Apart from the depot thing.
22:46:39  <andythenorth> peter1138: very
22:46:41  <nielsm> ah good, at least someone has read it!
22:46:47  <andythenorth> I have....ideas :P
22:46:52  <andythenorth> but it's cool
22:47:36  <andythenorth> let's try it on RVs :)
22:48:21  <TrueBrain> lol  @ nielsm :) I like the "it isn't a bug, so I am have a feature request" approach there :D
22:48:29  <TrueBrain> I am have?
22:48:40  <TrueBrain> well, time to drink more beer, I see
22:48:53  <nielsm>
22:48:58  <andythenorth> yeah ok so RVs works nicely
22:49:03  <nielsm> that thing is really annoying :)
22:49:11  <andythenorth> can give trucks a trailer colour to match route or cargo
22:50:03  <nielsm> seriously?
22:50:54  <nielsm> hmm wtf, it fails executing cscript
22:51:15  <nielsm> and two instances of:
22:51:16  <nielsm> C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio19\Preview\MSBuild\Current\Bin\Microsoft.Common.CurrentVersion.targets(2817,7): error MSB4057: The target "CreateManifestResourceNames" does not exist in the project.
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22:52:58  <glx> <nielsm> <-- intellisense fails at doxygen comments
22:53:15  <nielsm> glx yes, that's why I've not sent in a feature request for that
22:53:20  <nielsm> now*
22:53:57  <glx> I think it's been requested for visual studio code already
22:54:30  <glx> but the NULL one is weird
22:55:11  <glx> how can it fail to execute cscript ??? it's a windows tool
22:55:17  <nielsm> no clue
22:55:37  <nielsm> but it seems it was running the v141 toolset msbuild projects with the v142 toolset
22:55:39  <nielsm> I think
22:55:47  <nielsm> so now installing the v141 toolset...
22:55:56  <nielsm> and may have to make updated projects for v142
22:56:01  <peter1138> o_O
22:56:03  <nielsm> (vs2019)
22:58:22  <andythenorth> so how about...?
22:58:28  <andythenorth> 4 company colours? :)
22:58:32  <glx> it didn't suggest upgrade when opening vs141 solution ?
22:58:43  <andythenorth> there are some purples we could sacrifice, especially if it was flagged :P
22:58:45  <peter1138> andythenorth... no.
22:58:52  <nielsm> nope, it just loads it and shows (Visual Studio 2017) after every project name
22:58:56  <peter1138> You could do it with 32bpp, I suppose.
22:59:27  <andythenorth> no red wagons for my grey engine? :)
22:59:59  * andythenorth was trying to avoid suggesting 'wagon' and 'engine' options
23:00:05  <andythenorth> cos it's probably a generic UI
23:01:46  <nielsm> uhh....
23:01:47  <nielsm> wow
23:01:56  <nielsm> that's not something I will try to fix tonight
23:03:33  <nielsm> good night...
23:03:39  <andythenorth> bye :)
23:07:17  <glx> nice it doesnt find the compiler
23:07:55  <Samu> hmm just got a non-conflict that should conflict
23:08:39  <Samu> im using v->dest_tile yet, but since it's added code, the conflict detector doesn't detect
23:08:47  <Samu> :(
23:09:10  <glx> conflict only happen when changes are at the same place
23:09:31  <LordAro> git doesn't care about the correctness of your code
23:09:35  *** andythenorth has left #openttd
23:09:37  <glx> same as applying a patch file
23:11:34  *** nielsm has quit IRC
23:11:36  <Samu> it was correct before the ship cache patch though
23:12:22  <peter1138>
23:12:36  <peter1138> ^ any objection to me just inverting the test on L316?
23:13:05  <peter1138> I dunno about the operation of the algorithm, but it doesn't make any sense as is, at least.
23:14:10  <peter1138> @seen adf88
23:14:10  <DorpsGek> peter1138: adf88 was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 19 weeks, 4 days, 7 hours, and 16 seconds ago: <adf88> classic Windows keyboard is nicer :p
23:14:14  <peter1138> Bit of an issue :/
23:15:41  <LordAro> peter1138: if it works, no
23:15:44  <LordAro> no issue
23:16:05  <LordAro> odd that it doesn't cause any sort of issue on linux
23:16:11  <peter1138> Just luck.
23:16:15  <LordAro> mm
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23:16:28  <peter1138> No issues with MSVC except when compiled with debugging.
23:18:37  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7105: Fix #7098, #7061: Inverted test led to invalid iterator access.
23:20:04  <Samu> i get the same crash message for... #7090 and #7091
23:20:29  <Samu> i believe it's the same message, it's on xtree at least
23:21:04  <peter1138> 7090/7091 don't mention anything about a crash.
23:21:20  <peter1138> So what are you talking about?
23:21:39  <Samu> I added a comment
23:21:47  <Samu> maybe you didn't see them yet
23:21:59  <Samu> only crashes on debug mode
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23:22:43  <peter1138> Well if you are using a version affected by 7098, then yes of course it will.
23:22:59  <Samu> no, it's independent from that
23:22:59  <peter1138> If you mean something else...
23:23:14  <Samu> crashes on visible list iterator
23:23:19  <Samu> in ai_gui
23:23:19  <peter1138> Then bloody explain it properly, and ONLY do it on github.
23:23:27  <Samu> :| ok
23:23:55  <glx> yeah the useful info should be on github, not in the chat
23:24:07  <glx> else it will be forgotten
23:24:20  <Samu> the comment is there since... yesterday
23:24:33  <peter1138> And?
23:24:34  <glx> the comment is not explicit
23:24:55  <peter1138> You didn't add the assertion message you received.
23:25:03  <glx> if you can add the crash message do it
23:25:06  <Samu> ok, gonna reproduce it
23:25:08  <Samu> brb
23:25:33  <peter1138> We are doing other things that checking your bug reports every couple of hours.
23:25:46  <peter1138> That's the point of using github, it stays there until it's dealt with.
23:28:52  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on issue #7091: Dropdown menu can set value to a parameter of a different AI
23:30:32  <glx> ok now do it when running in MSVC ;)
23:31:15  <glx> runtime error window doesn't tell where the problem is
23:31:16  <peter1138> Agg, Fix #xxx, #xxx is not valid :/
23:32:06  <glx> <keyword>( #<issue>| <commit>(, (<keyword> #<issue>|<commit>))*)?: ([<section])? <Details>
23:32:11  <glx> it should
23:32:20  <Samu> not entirely sure if it's line 549 or 550, but it's here
23:32:33  <glx> ah add another Fix
23:32:34  <peter1138> glx, I think it needs Fix #xxx, Fix #xxx:
23:33:28  <Samu> i'll copy call stack
23:33:29  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7105: Fix #7098, #7061: Inverted test led to invalid iterator access.
23:33:47  <glx> where is the mark in the window ?
23:33:56  <glx> the mark indicates next line
23:34:28  <glx> ie the one where the exectution should go if the call doesn't fail
23:34:36  <Samu> the mark is at line 550
23:34:49  <glx> so error is at 549
23:34:53  <Samu> >	openttd.exe!AISettingsWindow::OnDropdownSelect(int widget, int index) Line 550	C++
23:35:10  <LordAro> peter1138: i feel like Fix: #nnn, #mmm should be valid
23:35:13  <glx> I mean the line in the code window
23:35:33  <Samu> ok, line 549
23:35:46  <glx> if you double click on the call stack there should be a little mark on the left
23:36:12  <glx> in front of the line following the error
23:36:40  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on issue #7091: Dropdown menu can set value to a parameter of a different AI
23:37:21  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #7087: Presignal doesn't work on long distance
23:37:22  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN closed issue #7087: Presignal doesn't work on long distance
23:37:25  <Samu>
23:37:27  <Samu> there
23:37:34  <peter1138> LordAro, I thought so too but it's not.
23:37:54  <glx> ok it++ fails
23:38:26  <Samu> it's iterating past the list
23:38:28  <glx> makes sense there's no checks at all
23:38:53  <peter1138> glx, yeah, it's basically already got invalid state at that point.
23:39:10  <peter1138> The context has changed underneath it.
23:39:13  <glx> indeed
23:39:19  <LordAro> Samu's doing good at finding loads of issues in the newgrf/ai config windows
23:40:03  <Samu> query box has a very similar crash, brb
23:40:08  <glx> you see Samu, even if we don't accept your PRs, your work is still useful
23:40:24  <Samu> gonna reproduce
23:42:34  <glx> the dropdown should be completly invalidated
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23:43:13  <Samu> ew there's some missing steps there
23:43:22  <Samu> forgot the step that starts aiai :p
23:43:34  <peter1138> Yeah, I think you can forget about the specifics of the crash. The issue is stuff is not invalidated properly.
23:43:41  <glx> "After clicking Accept, the list of settings change to the new AI, but the dropdown menu is still open" <-- that's the problem
23:43:56  <peter1138> Just closing the window would do.
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23:47:42  <peter1138> Heh, baseset metadata is kinda slow with MSVC, but meh, better than those incessant changes :p
23:48:28  <LordAro> it's not doing it every build, is it?
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23:49:21  <glx> for #7090 when you do 'set ai_developer_tools off' I think the tools should be closed
23:49:40  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on issue #7090: Query box sets value to hidden parameters
23:50:23  <Samu> i posted pr's to address them, take a look
23:50:55  <glx> yes same problem, the iterator is invalid
23:52:25  <Samu> my patch requests: #7092, #7093
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23:52:55  <glx> they are automatically added to the issue ;)
23:54:10  <fredcwbr-GO> Howdy, I'm a newbie and have been playing OpenTTD 1.6 for a while now. It's great fun. And would like to kick it up a notch, so
23:54:10  <fredcwbr-GO> where would be the right channel to get guidance on questions about playing a specific type of game scenario ? More specifically, if there is some GRF or other stuff that could convert cargo to ISOCONTAINER , and direct them to a destination ., :::??? is that possible / existant in openttd ?
23:54:32  <fredcwbr-GO> Thanks in advance for any reply.,
23:56:04  <glx> well there are newgrf displaying containers on trains for some cargo types
23:57:00  <Samu> I didn't add a PR to the newgrf issue because I hate newgrfs, kekeke j/k
23:58:01  <Samu> I actually didn't take a look at it
23:58:09  <glx> but I think the forums will be a better option for your question fredcwbr-GO
23:58:47  <fredcwbr-GO> Ok, .. Thank you very much.,
23:59:05  <fredcwbr-GO> I'll look into them... some in particular?
23:59:36  <glx>
23:59:57  <fredcwbr-GO> Thanks, have a nice evening.,

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