Log for #openttd on 20th April 2019:
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00:06:30  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/nml] stormcone opened pull request #32: Fix: Update OTTD_GUI sprite count.
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00:47:49  <Artea> ok
00:48:06  <Artea> seems Generate Name in Fund Town doesn't work
00:48:14  <Artea> with silly names
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01:08:48  <peter1138> Some of the name generators have a very limited set of names.
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01:18:02  <Artea> :(
01:18:05  <Artea> good night
01:20:39  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7529: Fix: Bounds check access to railtype_map.
01:21:27  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7527: Add: NewGRF string codes to access PUSH/POP_COLOUR.
01:21:49  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/nml] PeterN merged pull request #31: Add: PUSH/POP_COLOUR codes.
01:24:03  <Samu> what was the command to remove a pr?
01:24:23  <peter1138> git branch -D branchname
01:24:48  <supermop_Home> why is peter1138 still up I wonder
01:26:38  <peter1138> I wish I knew.
01:26:47  <Samu> it wasn't that one
01:27:38  <Samu> glx knows
01:27:44  <peter1138> That is how you delete a branch.
01:27:58  <peter1138> "pr/xxxx" is a branch name.
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01:28:09  <glx> git pr-clean
01:28:29  <glx> but the manual way works too ;)
01:28:45  <peter1138> There is nothing magic about "pr/", it's just a convenient way to identify a pr branch.
01:31:06  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #7529: Fix: Bounds check access to railtype_map.
01:31:29  <glx> indeed it was clearly unsafe to trust newgrf :)
01:34:10  <peter1138> Who knows what could happen!
01:34:28  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7529: Fix: Bounds check access to railtype_map.
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01:57:50  <Samu> thx
01:57:57  <Samu> i'm off to bed
01:57:59  <Samu> good night
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02:51:46  <supermop_Home> any more NRT playing?
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06:25:42  <andythenorth> now not bed
07:03:11  <andythenorth> Hog!
07:06:23  <andythenorth> peter1138: so should we just split out trams completely?
07:06:46  <andythenorth> the partial split is confusing in nml too :P
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07:13:06  <andythenorth> moin nielsm
07:16:43  <LordAro> o/
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07:32:19  <andythenorth> :o narrow gauge,file=5036,filename=Tankcar_Norgas_Baquedano_2008_0043.JPG
07:35:09  <nielsm> hah wtf, I just discovered an oversight in my town cargo gen patch
07:35:25  <nielsm> in object_cmd.cpp TileLoop_Object it does cargo generation for the company HQ
07:35:31  <nielsm> which also uses that algorithm
07:35:40  <nielsm> so that needs to be fixed I guess
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08:00:29  <andythenorth> very train
08:11:48  <andythenorth> turnip wagon!
08:54:57  <andythenorth> salt bahn!
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09:29:07  <andythenorth>
09:38:46  <peter1138> Morning
09:39:32  <andythenorth> o/
09:43:02  <peter1138> What's confusing about trams in nml?
09:44:19  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/nml] michicc merged pull request #32: Fix: Update OTTD_GUI sprite count.
09:47:22  <peter1138> Well, my late-night soldering worked. Shame it was just temporary though :p
09:47:32  <peter1138> Now I just need to pop out to Mapl... oh.
09:50:11  <andythenorth> ENoMaplin
09:50:52  * andythenorth must to go out
09:51:48  <andythenorth> peter1138: I think mostly that a tram can have road_type property validly set, and road vehicle can have tram_type validly set
09:52:01  <andythenorth> which isn't actually a problem, just weird
09:52:07  <peter1138> Eh?
09:52:17  <peter1138> That... sounds like an NML thing?
09:52:23  <andythenorth> it's an nml thing yes
09:52:24  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/nml] michicc opened pull request #33: Fix c3404c0: Invalid syntax for string code table.
09:52:41  <andythenorth> nml _could_ maybe split trams and RVs completely
09:52:46  <andythenorth> dunno if it should
09:53:24  <andythenorth> anyway, /me biab
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09:53:32  <peter1138> In NFO you just have look up table index, and the look up table depends on the misc flags
09:53:35  <peter1138> michi_cc, whoops.
09:53:58  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/nml] michicc merged pull request #33: Fix c3404c0: Invalid syntax for string code table.
09:53:59  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/nml] PeterN approved pull request #33: Fix c3404c0: Invalid syntax for string code table.
09:54:03  <peter1138> Heh
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10:03:53  <peter1138> Morning
10:05:31  <Wolf01> o/
10:10:08  * peter1138 finds more bugs.
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10:27:10  <peter1138> Hmm, I need a for-loop-type-thing that will do both "false" and "true". Maybe I should make my enum a uint8 instead of bool :p
10:32:20  <peter1138> Oh
10:32:44  <peter1138> That might work.
10:32:54  <peter1138> for (bool b : { false, true })
10:33:31  <peter1138> C++11
10:42:24  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7521: Fix: Stop Construction Windows Closing on Company Rename (Issue #7479)
10:43:02  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh dismissed a review for pull request #7521: Fix: Stop Construction Windows Closing on Company Rename (Issue #7479)
10:43:32  <LordAro> peter1138: bit weird regardless i feel
10:44:02  <nielsm> that looks very python-ish to me
10:44:05  <peter1138> LordAro, I'm actually doing "for (RoadTramType rtt : { RTT_ROAD, RTT_TRAM })"
10:44:20  <peter1138> As RoadTramType is an enum backed by bool.
10:45:03  <peter1138> If it's a uint8 and I add RTT_END, then that needs to be handled in switch blocks etc :/
10:45:26  <peter1138> Also, it's hidden by "FOR_ALL_ROADTRAMTYPES(rtt)" cos we're evil ;)
10:51:14  <peter1138> That's a swizz! This Easter egg comes in two halves, not one piece ;(
10:56:28  <Wolf01>  <peter1138> for (bool b : { false, true }) <- what. the. f?
10:56:39  <peter1138> C++11?
10:56:46  <Wolf01> Still
10:57:22  <Wolf01> Is that a flip flop?
10:57:26  <peter1138>
10:57:37  <peter1138> No, it just iterates both false and true.
10:57:46  <nielsm> RoadTramType ALL_ROADTRAMTYPES[] = { RTT_ROAD, RTT_TRAM }; for (RoadTramType rtt : ALL_ROADTRAMTYPES) ...
10:57:57  <nielsm> why waste a declaration like that when you can do it in less?
10:58:09  <peter1138> nielsm, likely.
10:58:22  <peter1138> Hmm, "Stroll On" sounds very wonky with fluidsynth :/
10:58:23  <Wolf01> Ok, why using a for?
10:58:43  <nielsm> deduplicate some code?
10:58:47  <peter1138> Wolf01, because I need to iterate both values.
10:58:48  <peter1138> Yup.
10:58:53  <peter1138> Deduplicate code.
10:59:01  <Wolf01> I would make a function :P
10:59:16  <Wolf01> And call it twice
10:59:23  <nielsm> sometimes factoring out to a function is not practical
10:59:25  <peter1138> That's not fun when there are side effects.
10:59:29  <nielsm> the function would end up with ten arguments
10:59:33  <peter1138> ^^
10:59:42  <nielsm> (don't know about this specific case)
11:00:33  <peter1138> Not that many, but it's replacing an existing for-loop as well.
11:00:52  <peter1138> I had unrolled it, now I'm un-unrolling it.
11:01:04  <nielsm> and making a lambda function with captures can be rather awkward syntax
11:02:37  <nielsm>
11:02:42  <Wolf01> Not that in c# would be different, just a foreach on a list containing false and true :P
11:04:08  <peter1138> nielsm, oh god
11:04:11  <Wolf01> Ahaahha
11:04:17  <Wolf01> I'm dying
11:05:29  <nielsm> I should get up and do something vaguely useful, instead of sipping tea and reading dumb things on the internet
11:06:44  <Wolf01> Me too, but I have 9 days to do that
11:08:12  <nielsm> <@peter1138> Hmm, "Stroll On" sounds very wonky with fluidsynth :/  <-- and yeah those free soundfonts usually supplied don't sound good with music written with roland soundcanvas in mind
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11:08:44  <Wolf01> Quak
11:10:38  <peter1138> nielsm, well, seems there's some weird pitch-shifting happening.
11:11:39  <frosch123> moi
11:12:28  <peter1138> Morning.
11:13:15  <nielsm> that
11:13:22  <nielsm> that's a lot of shopping centres
11:21:03  <peter1138> Heh, when you go "wtf is this bit shuffling" and then realise you are in afterload.cpp
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11:30:05  <frosch123> hmm, the latest commit in grf2html is adding .hgignore after svn->hg migration
11:30:14  <frosch123> i wonder whether i drop that commit when converting to git
11:31:52  <peter1138> Hmm, the music stopped at/after 04 "Road Hog"
11:32:22  <peter1138> Oh, no, whoops. I'd muted it.
11:49:09  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7516: Custom allocators for Squirrel
11:51:09  <nielsm> now what would be a sane default for script max memory?
11:51:48  <nielsm> and should it depend on 32 or 64 bit?
11:52:45  <nielsm> and hmm is that a game setting or a client setting?
11:53:37  <nielsm> since the AI and GS don't actually run on network clients it seems wrong to make it a game setting
11:54:06  <nielsm> and should it even be exposed in the UI?
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11:57:36  <frosch123> the main difference is that game settings are stored in the savegame, while client settings are not
11:57:57  <frosch123> make it the same as the opcode limit
11:58:14  <frosch123> wrt. storing and exposure
12:01:00  <andythenorth> yo
12:02:20  <frosch123> meh, my connection to devzone has lots of packet loss :/
12:03:34  <andythenorth> hmm
12:03:34  <andythenorth> FEAT_ROADTRAMVEHS ? o_O
12:03:34  <andythenorth> instead of FEAT_ROADVEHS
12:03:34  <andythenorth> my devzon hg is flaking out occasionally
12:03:34  <andythenorth> as is my e key
12:04:12  <frosch123> don't break things just to for breaking :)
12:05:04  <frosch123> if road and tramtypes share labels now, they should probably also share the translation table and feature number
12:05:20  <andythenorth> probably
12:05:21  <frosch123> so, everything is ROAD in nml
12:05:32  <andythenorth> I am aware of the pitfalls of tidy-mind problems :)
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12:06:58  <andythenorth> I just keep running into the side effects of 'road vehicles' being the set of 'road vehicles' and 'trams'
12:06:59  <andythenorth> :D
12:07:17  <andythenorth> e.g. in Hog docs, I have a page split into road vehicles, and trams
12:07:35  <andythenorth> and to split, I iterate road vehicles, splitting out road vehicles :)
12:08:13  * andythenorth files it under 'much lolz all'
12:09:11  <peter1138> Nah, translation table and feature is not shared.
12:10:50  <peter1138> To merge them would break existing NewGRFs, and also makes splitting it apart later awkward if that becomes the way forward.
12:11:20  <Wolf01> VS 142 is 2017 or newer?
12:11:43  <peter1138> I think 141 is 2017 and 142 is 2019
12:13:03  <Wolf01> Ok, selected wrong project :P
12:16:03  <Wolf01> Ok, master updated and compiled
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12:19:29  <Wolf01> Is the nrt main repo still the andy's one?
12:20:26  <peter1138> andythenorth/nrt-block
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12:21:36  <peter1138> Nice, make regression fails D:
12:22:42  <nielsm>
12:22:49  <nielsm> ugh apple what is this
12:23:01  <nielsm> also squirrel what is this
12:23:15  <peter1138> "type" yeah...
12:24:43  <milek7> related to this?
12:26:20  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7516: Custom allocators for Squirrel
12:26:21  <Wolf01> Mmmh, 74 conflicts... the branch is clean, pull -> conflicts, is it stupid or what?
12:26:29  <nielsm> maybe moving the <map> include fixes that
12:26:41  <peter1138> Oh, I see.
12:28:43  <andythenorth> so pax feldbahn?
12:30:31  <nielsm> no
12:31:04  <nielsm> hmm or well, maybe after 1980 as a museum railway kind of thing
12:32:33  <nielsm>
12:34:40  <nielsm> (I should try talking to that club some time and see if I can get to try driving the steam engine)
12:38:15  <andythenorth>
12:38:22  <andythenorth> micro feldbahn :P
12:38:44  <nielsm> that's just a large scale model railway :P
12:40:44  <Wolf01> Git reset from VS is really useless, had to do it from cli
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12:46:25  <peter1138> VS is really useless :p
12:46:51  <Wolf01> Do I still need to include libs with the .user file?
12:48:00  <nielsm> if you use vcpkg then no
12:48:22  <Wolf01> Mmmh, I think I did it on Openttd/master, but not on nrt
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13:00:13  <nielsm> okay I can't make exceeding memory budget a hard error, have to allow overdraft and then check status when not executing the vm
13:01:17  <Wolf01> Nope, doesn't work, missing libz, libpng, lzo, ft2build etc
13:02:04  <Wolf01> Can't understand why OTTD master works fine, maybe that's why I gave up with nrt
13:07:12  <Wolf01> x64 works... no win32 libs on vcpgk?
13:23:10  <andythenorth> hmm
13:23:17  <andythenorth> I need to refactor Hog code a bit for NRT
13:23:38  <andythenorth> otoh, something inside me is pushing on 2 vertebrae, and causing referred pain
13:23:50  <andythenorth> so I'm not very motivated to refactor python :P
13:29:52  <nielsm> this script code is convoluted
13:33:25  <Wolf01> Mr. thenorth, which are the latest versions for nrt newgrfs? Every topic is about a year old
13:35:01  <nielsm> yay finally worked
13:42:18  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7516: Custom allocators for Squirrel
13:43:08  <andythenorth> Wolf01: you just have to dig around in forums :)
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13:44:41  <nielsm> it's kind of troublesome to debug regression failures on windows
13:45:10  <nielsm> it's hard to attach a debugger to the regression run and you don't even get the actual output text dumped anywhere
13:45:21  <Wolf01> andythenorth: why not a curated list of newgrfs for nrt? :P
13:45:35  <andythenorth> why not :P
13:51:29  <nielsm> oh, the regressions passed now
13:51:48  <nielsm> I think a default memory limit of 128 mb for scripts is going to make samu sad :P
13:52:10  <nielsm> but I'm not sure what a sane default would be
13:55:55  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7516: Memory measurement and limits for Squirrel
13:56:37  <Eddi|zuHause> surely 640k ought to be enough for anyone
13:57:20  <LordAro> nielsm: lower than the point at which the GC falls over :p
13:57:23  <nielsm> 640k is barely enough for a script to boot up :P
13:57:29  <LordAro> should probably scale by map size, tbh
13:57:35  <nielsm> hm maybe
13:58:03  <LordAro> perhaps could aleo try GCing before hard killing the script?
13:58:13  <LordAro> also*
13:58:54  <nielsm> also I think 32 bit builds (sizeof(void*) less than 8) a hard limit of 128 MB would be a good idea since you're already oversubscribing address space with 8 AIs then
13:58:56  <frosch123> how does it scale by map size? by edge length, by area, exponential?
14:00:18  <nielsm> should probably scale by area
14:00:19  <frosch123> scaling by map size is weird
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14:00:38  <Artea> game should have a "crash report"
14:00:40  <Eddi|zuHause> scale by allowed vehicle limits?
14:00:44  <Artea> with the interniares of them
14:00:47  <frosch123> why would you restrict ais to les memory just because you are playing on a smaller map
14:01:04  <frosch123> wouldn't you always adjust the setting to your system?
14:01:20  <nielsm> Artea you mean like the crash report being produced when the game crashes?
14:01:24  <Eddi|zuHause> nobody(*) will ever adjust the setting
14:01:29  <Artea> so we can check the routes of crashed airplanes / trains
14:01:29  <nielsm> there _is_ a crash report and it works for everyone else
14:01:34  <Artea> no no
14:01:40  <Artea> I mean ingame crash report
14:01:58  <nielsm> okay so more like disaster report
14:02:04  <Eddi|zuHause> Artea: maybe you should announce a topic change :p
14:03:16  <Artea> sorry
14:03:26  <Artea> I'm not in good place right now
14:03:38  <Artea> trying just to clear my mind
14:03:44  <Artea> with OTTD
14:03:53  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] bennyman123abc updated pull request #7521: Fix: Stop Construction Windows Closing on Company Rename (Issue #7479)
14:05:33  <Artea> also
14:05:52  <Artea> Property Maintenance should be called Company Maintenance
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14:06:08  <nielsm> that's much more misleading
14:06:25  <Artea> it is ?
14:06:44  <nielsm> why do you think "property" is the wrong word?
14:06:52  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] bennyman123abc commented on pull request #7521: Fix: Stop Construction Windows Closing on Company Rename (Issue #7479)
14:06:58  <nielsm> it's costs for maintaining the fixed assets you own
14:07:02  <Artea> well, I though was for HQ Property
14:08:38  <nielsm> why would "company" make it any more clear that it covers maintenance for track, stations etc.?
14:08:41  <Artea> don't know, more clarify what it is ?
14:08:52  <Artea> yes
14:09:02  <Artea> well, is apart of company
14:09:13  <nielsm> yes, it's the company's fixed properties
14:09:30  <nielsm> property = "the land you own and the constructions on that land"
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14:09:41  <Artea> hmmmm
14:10:12  <Artea> so it counts everything ?
14:10:39  <nielsm> "company maintenance" sounds like expenses for running your administration (i.e. wages for administrative staff not involved in the actual transportation business itself)
14:10:50  <Artea> I really need to RTM OTTD
14:12:20  * Artea is such a noob
14:13:32  <nielsm> click the Infrastructure button in the finances window, or Details button in the company window
14:13:49  <nielsm> to see the infrastructure breakdown, which is the property maintenance cost
14:14:18  <Artea> I checked
14:14:24  <Artea> counts everything
14:14:40  <Artea> good thing I have Infrastuture_maintenance off
14:15:40  <Artea> well
14:15:53  <Artea> seems having player joined the my server
14:15:58  <Artea> made me a little happier
14:19:37  <nielsm> lol @ borkai spending so much time scanning the map and collecting data it goes over its memory budget before it even builds anything
14:21:54  <Artea> :S
14:26:31  <andythenorth> Hog Hog Hog
14:26:36  * andythenorth took painkillers, and is coding
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14:28:14  <Artea> I'm put Windows 7 into USB Pen
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14:28:30  <Artea> for my other laptop
14:28:32  <Artea> GRRRR
14:28:38  <Artea> need get an HDD
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14:31:48  <andythenorth> oof
14:32:22  <andythenorth> dunno if I should subclass in python for trams
14:33:22  <andythenorth> Horse it's all a bit of a mess, engine type vs track type vs power type
14:34:16  <andythenorth> maybe I just replicate that mess in Hog :P
14:35:46  <andythenorth> are trams a thing, conceptually, or not?
14:37:20  * andythenorth makes it more specific
14:37:30  <andythenorth> is ElectricRoadVehicle subclassed into ElectricRoadVehicle and ElectricTram?
14:38:07  <andythenorth> or should I leave it as is, ElectricRoadVehicle with tram flag and tram_type set
14:38:20  <andythenorth> "Class ElectricRoadVehicle(ElectricRoadVehicle):" looks frigging odd
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14:46:04  <frosch123> <- someone knows who is involved in that?
14:46:06  <frosch123> roboboy?
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14:48:25  <frosch123> hmm, rather lakie
14:50:02  <frosch123> ah, the rudge
14:50:21  <andythenorth> Class ElectricRoadVehicle(ElectricRoadVehicleBase) might look ok?
14:50:21  <peter1138> Artea, get an SSD tho ;)
14:51:26  <Artea> yes
14:51:33  <peter1138> Right, so...
14:51:34  <Artea> but I'm old and rusty
14:51:53  <Artea> it is installed in same place as HDD ?
14:51:59  <andythenorth> usually
14:52:07  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
14:52:13  <peter1138> Yeah, as long as your laptop is not so old that it uses PATA/IDE drives.
14:52:37  <andythenorth> "Class ElectricTram(ElectricRoadVehicleBase):"
14:52:52  <peter1138> I did remove ELRD and RAIL from NRT.
14:53:01  <andythenorth> oh you did? o_O
14:53:09  <andythenorth> nothing broke in Hog yet :P
14:53:10  <peter1138> You can add them yourself, of course.
14:53:18  <andythenorth> I just used them because they were there
14:53:26  <peter1138> But in the interests of not-adding-content, I didn't add content.
14:53:35  <andythenorth> fair
14:53:41  <Artea> Asus X552C
14:53:53  <andythenorth> what's your opinion this afternoon on hard splitting road / tram?
14:54:05  <peter1138> That's plenty new enough.
14:54:09  <peter1138> andythenorth, "no"
14:54:21  <peter1138> andythenorth, I'm happy with it as is.
14:54:25  <andythenorth> not going to change your mind? :)
14:54:32  <andythenorth> I am fine either way
14:54:43  <peter1138> road/tram *types* are already split with regards to feature.
14:54:45  <andythenorth> just about to refactor a bunch of Hog so it makes sense
14:55:03  <peter1138> road/tram vehicles are not, but splitting them would involve having to fix up existing tram newgrfs.
14:55:16  <andythenorth> if English had a plausible word for the superclass of 'road vehicles + trams'
14:55:24  <andythenorth> that would solve 99% of my confusion :P
14:55:37  <andythenorth> GroundVehicle!
14:55:39  <peter1138> OpenTTD calls them "ground vehicles"
14:55:40  <peter1138> Yes.
14:55:44  <peter1138> It actually does.
14:56:17  <andythenorth> I considered RubberTyredVehicle, but doesn't quite work :P
14:56:24  <andythenorth> as a subclass
14:56:37  <peter1138> I had a souvlaki pita for lunch. It's basically chicken + salad and a fluffy pita bread. But it was nice, so that was nice.
14:56:52  <andythenorth> mmm chicken
14:56:54  <andythenorth> mmmm salad
14:57:26  <peter1138> Latest NRT needs testing, it has the new-old FOR_ALL_ROADTRAMTYPES()
14:57:31  <andythenorth> GroundSaladVehicle
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14:57:35  <peter1138> Where "ALL" means "BOTH" I guess :p
14:58:13  <peter1138> I wonder.
14:58:17  <peter1138> ChickenSaladVehicle.
14:58:41  <andythenorth> ElectricTruck
14:58:46  <andythenorth> ElectricFeldbahn
14:58:49  <andythenorth> ElectricTram
14:58:50  <andythenorth> meh
14:59:05  <andythenorth> then the label wouldn't need settinig
14:59:13  <andythenorth> inferred from the class
14:59:18  * andythenorth thinking out loud obvs
15:04:01  <andythenorth> haha I already solved this in existing code
15:04:09  <andythenorth> I hedged all bets, and created 'Haulers' :P
15:04:15  <peter1138> Ok
15:04:16  <andythenorth> FruitVegHauler
15:04:21  <andythenorth> etc
15:04:28  * andythenorth onwards
15:04:51  <andythenorth> most of my programming these days is reading existing code a lot first
15:04:56  <andythenorth> then going for a walk
15:04:57  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you have an irrational obsession about labels. like other people have with server names...
15:05:25  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: do you mean labels for things, or labels as 4 chars?
15:05:34  <Eddi|zuHause> labels as 4 chars
15:05:40  <andythenorth> no I don't care about those at all
15:05:48  <andythenorth> if I cared, I wouldn't ask for any help
15:06:00  <andythenorth> currently all the new labels are HAKE, CAKE, BAKE tec
15:06:08  <andythenorth> and they might just stay like that
15:06:18  <peter1138> Maybe I should play with RUKTS
15:06:27  <andythenorth> if $someone would just tell me what labels to use, I would just paste them in
15:06:31  <andythenorth> REKT
15:06:46  <andythenorth> I do have an irrational obsession with naming of parts
15:07:15  <Eddi|zuHause> whatever labels you set now, you will regret in half a year :p
15:07:30  <andythenorth> that's why I want you to decide
15:07:40  <andythenorth> then I can outsource the regret
15:07:56  <Eddi|zuHause> i won't
15:13:27  <Wolf01> :D
15:20:59  <andythenorth> hmm
15:21:06  <andythenorth> python subclass mixins are bad, right?
15:21:12  <andythenorth> we tried that before and deleted it
15:24:29  <peter1138>  175 files changed, 4772 insertions(+), 1415 deletions(-)
15:24:31  <peter1138> Hm.
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15:28:54  <Samu> hi
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15:32:49  * andythenorth tries mixins, removes them again
15:33:07  <andythenorth> complexity of multiple inheritance, vs. adding a flag to 20 subclasses
15:33:09  <andythenorth> flag wins
15:45:07  * peter1138 tries VEH_TRAM :p
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16:01:39  * andythenorth quite likes hog
16:01:49  <andythenorth> it's easy-ish to work on :P
16:05:37  <andythenorth> I am subclassing tram / truck etc inside Hog compile
16:05:48  <andythenorth> couldn't be having all the confusion about RoadVehicle
16:06:03  <andythenorth> I don't have to see the nml, so I don't care what that does :)
16:07:06  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gymnasiast opened issue #7530: Crash in kdtree.hpp when removing track in development version
16:13:19  *** gelignite has quit IRC
16:13:51  * peter1138 gives up on that idea.
16:13:55  <peter1138> No, no way to split this up.
16:18:40  *** Lun has joined #openttd
16:19:08  <Lun> Hello, could you please tell me how to set up the automatical changing of old vehicles?
16:20:09  <peter1138> Enable autorenew:
16:21:03  <peter1138> (You might need to show advanced settings, or something)
16:22:00  <Artea> bah
16:22:06  <Artea> got disconnected from my server
16:22:15  <Artea> timeout :'(
16:23:27  <andythenorth> peter1138: if they weren't specifically called RoadVehicle or VEH_ROAD or whatever, we'd all just move on
16:23:32  <andythenorth> and stop picking at it :D
16:23:59  <peter1138> Like a scab?
16:24:11  <andythenorth> probs
16:24:35  <Lun> Is there any setting in the main menu for this function?
16:24:57  <Artea> Lun
16:25:01  <Artea> go to Settings
16:25:09  <peter1138> It's in the settings window? o_O
16:25:11  <Artea> select Expert Settings
16:25:18  <Artea> and filter type renew
16:25:30  <Artea> will show 3 options
16:25:52  <Lun> I have to find it in Czech :)
16:25:58  <Artea> is under Company
16:27:00  <Lun> Yes, I am in company
16:27:07  <Eddi|zuHause> does the settings filter work on the internal names as well?
16:29:00  <Lun> Got it!!! Thank you very much Artea!
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16:34:27  <pete1> Hi, did you dropped the generic linux builds?
16:35:05  <peter1138> YesYes.
16:35:23  <nielsm>
16:35:25  <pete1> Oh, finally or just for now?
16:35:27  <nielsm> previous answer to same question
16:35:50  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7531: Fix e8d397e: Invisible station/waypoint signs could still be clicked on.
16:38:01  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh approved pull request #7531: Fix e8d397e: Invisible station/waypoint signs could still be clicked on.
16:38:58  <peter1138> 'Twas quick.
16:39:08  <nielsm> "looks good" :)
16:40:41  <peter1138> I should stop reading the forums... that was reported only in JGR's thread o_O
16:42:03  <peter1138> Ginger Beer Stout is quite interesting.
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16:43:56  <peter1138> Minecraft 1.14 will be out in a few days.
16:44:57  <andythenorth> for tea...cod with tomato and thyme?
16:45:06  <andythenorth> probs
16:45:28  <peter1138> Sounds nice.
16:45:49  <andythenorth> oof Hog introduces pax trams on silly intervals :(
16:45:49  <andythenorth> my automatic date stuff won't work with this :P
16:46:20  <peter1138> Have you tried just... setting some things manually? :p
16:46:50  <andythenorth> that's what I'm replacing :)
16:46:57  <peter1138> Why though?
16:47:18  <peter1138> Things that should be automatic: Sprite offsets.
16:47:24  <andythenorth> because it's net less stupid than what I'm currently doing
16:47:30  <andythenorth> currently I set some stuff manually
16:47:31  <peter1138> Things that shouldn't: vehicle properties
16:47:38  <andythenorth> then some stuff automatically
16:47:51  <andythenorth> and lots of book-keeping to stop them getting out of sync :P
16:47:57  <andythenorth> currently I am definitely Doing It Wrong
16:49:56  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7531: Fix e8d397e: Invisible station/waypoint signs could still be clicked on.
16:51:15  <peter1138> andythenorth, what do I need to add to NRT?
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16:51:54  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #7516: Memory measurement and limits for Squirrel
16:52:36  <peter1138> ^ Fairly useless comment.
16:52:36  <andythenorth> it's done
16:52:36  <andythenorth> dunno, I'm making Hog to test it
16:52:36  <andythenorth> can it go in a nightly yet?
16:52:37  <andythenorth> let players loose on it?
16:53:18  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7516: Memory measurement and limits for Squirrel
16:53:22  <andythenorth> what's a default anyway? :P
16:53:35  <peter1138> andythenorth, well..
16:53:38  <andythenorth> do I need more RAM?
16:53:48  <peter1138> I guess I should squash all the bugfixes again./
16:53:49  <andythenorth> so I can run 16 AIs?
16:53:55  <peter1138> And then see if there's more I can split.
16:53:55  * andythenorth should stop being a twat and go back to Hog
16:53:56  <peter1138> And then...
16:54:02  <peter1138> Someone needs to review it ;P
16:54:32  <nielsm> I'm probably changing the default to 1 GB but hard limiting it to 128 MB on 32 bit builds
16:55:02  <nielsm> because 16 scripts (15 AI + one GS) * 128 MB makes for 2 GB
16:55:13  <nielsm> and on 32 bit windows you only have 2 GB of address space
16:55:28  <nielsm> (well maybe 3 GB but don't count on that)
16:55:58  <peter1138> I'm not sure hard limits are a good idea.
16:56:14  <peter1138> Can a 32 bit build make use of PAE?
16:56:28  <peter1138> Can't remember if that's kernel-level only. Probably is.
16:56:41  <nielsm> uh well I guess technically you could now we have a context switched allocator for squirrel
16:57:07  <peter1138> Right, but say you wanted to run 2 AIs that need 256MB.
16:57:16  <peter1138> You can't because there's an arbitrary 128MB limit.
16:58:20  <nielsm> or maybe do some evillery checking the total memory use of all scripts and if it hits some other limit then start OoM killing the scripts
17:00:51  <peter1138> Ok, ok....
17:00:57  <peter1138> Squash NRT time?
17:04:47  <andythenorth> there comes a time
17:07:06  <peter1138> Does it still build?
17:07:07  <peter1138> :p
17:08:58  <andythenorth> there's no way to update a checked out PR, right?
17:09:05  <andythenorth> I have to branch -D and go again?
17:09:21  <peter1138> git reset but...
17:10:37  <andythenorth> so does it build?
17:10:45  <peter1138> I... am checking.
17:12:19  <nielsm> hmm nah using AWE to support more memory for AIs on 32 bit windows is probably not worth the effort
17:12:21  <peter1138> I hope so.
17:12:27  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
17:12:28  <peter1138> nielsm, nope :-)
17:12:46  <andythenorth> yeah it builds
17:12:46  <nielsm> it would fall square under "stupid programmer tricks"
17:12:59  <peter1138> No point when 64 bit exists.
17:13:05  <peter1138> andythenorth, you updated that quickly!
17:13:43  <nielsm> unless for some reason you're running windows server 2003 (or xp sp1) on some ancient CPU but still have more than 4 GB RAM installed
17:13:49  <nielsm> and nobody does that
17:14:15  <peter1138> Are people even using 32 bit builds?
17:14:19  <nielsm> since as far as I can tell the pages involved in AWE must be locked in physical memory
17:14:21  <peter1138> I shouldn't ask that should I?
17:15:12  <andythenorth> compiling OpenTTD is faster than compiling a grf :P
17:15:12  <andythenorth> but now you've updated again L:P
17:15:12  <andythenorth> delete them and find out
17:15:12  <andythenorth> we've found some linux users who don't use the packaged openttd
17:15:36  <peter1138> Is it tea/dinner time yet?
17:16:09  <andythenorth> yes
17:16:26  <nielsm> (during one period I did run XP SP1 on a system with 4 or 6 GB RAM, intentionally did not upgrade to SP2 since that would take away my ability to use more than 2.9 GB memory or there about)
17:16:51  <nielsm> (until vista was released then I switched to 64 bit)
17:21:17  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7516: Memory measurement and limits for Squirrel
17:35:41  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7516: Memory measurement and limits for Squirrel
17:38:04  * peter1138 git pr 7516 upstream
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17:42:23  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7516: Memory measurement and limits for Squirrel
17:42:54  <nielsm> look ma' I used a selection/stack/planeswitcher widget!
17:43:00  <peter1138> Ooo
17:43:01  <nielsm> (why is it called three things)
17:45:02  <peter1138> Hmm.
17:45:13  <peter1138> Memory usage seems fairly moderate... for now.
17:47:05  <nielsm> some AIs' usage depends heavily on map size (or maybe rather town+industry count) it seems
17:47:37  <peter1138> CivilAI at 240MB
17:48:46  <Samu> doesn't look like memory limit is the problem
17:48:47  <peter1138> And then it went bankrupt. Hah.
17:48:59  <Samu> have u found out the cause of the crash?
17:49:56  <nielsm> it's probably related to the data structures the script uses, too heavily nested or something
17:50:20  <nielsm> if it crashes in the GC with a broken stack
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17:51:17  <nielsm> but memory limiting AIs and killing them if they use too much may be sufficient symptom treatment
17:51:22  <peter1138> I suspect it's k-d tree related, to be honest.
17:51:37  <peter1138> As that is one elusive crash.
17:51:48  <Samu> nah, it's happened way before
17:53:35  <Samu> doesn't pathfinders use nested
17:53:40  <Samu> for each tile
17:54:14  <Samu> don't know
17:58:47  <Samu> what about my AI, how's it doing about memory?
18:00:30  <Samu> have you tried the max value for min distance for road routes, with custom pathfinder profile?
18:00:50  <Samu> longer routes, more nodes to check
18:01:22  <Samu> longer routes first
18:02:58  <peter1138> DumbAI at 862 MB
18:03:53  <Samu> that's not my AI, :(
18:06:28  <Samu> omg, PathZilla beat SimpleAI in a race for £10M
18:06:36  <Samu> that's unexpected
18:06:39  <peter1138> "Maximum memory allocation exceeded"
18:07:27  <peter1138> nielsm, is the AI now terminated?
18:07:38  <peter1138> I guess not, still shows 1GB usage.
18:10:44  <Samu> CivilAI beats SnakeAI, it was close
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18:11:08  <Samu> 100% vs 96%
18:20:40  <nielsm> peter1138: if you got the error popup with AI debug window etc then it is terminated
18:21:08  <peter1138> Hmm.
18:21:10  <nielsm> the AI stays zombified (always has) with the last known memory usage shown in framerate window
18:21:15  <peter1138> Ok.
18:21:20  <nielsm> so you can kill the company or reload the ai
18:21:35  <peter1138> perhaps the framerate GUI should show zombified state?
18:21:46  <nielsm> might be
18:25:30  <nielsm> if I seem absent it's because I'm watching demoparty live
18:38:44  <Samu> what am I watching?
18:39:24  <nielsm> 64k pc demo compo
18:39:41  <nielsm> the total exe file size for each of these demos is at most 64 kb, and they may not use external data files
18:40:53  <nielsm> demo = demonstration of your own skills
18:40:57  <Samu> meh...
18:41:10  <Samu> just an efficiency test
18:41:29  <nielsm> eh no
18:42:43  <Samu> make a midi
18:42:50  <Samu> compress
18:43:00  <nielsm> hah no
18:43:35  <LordAro> Samu misses the point, surprising no one
18:44:04  <nielsm> the 64 kb includes graphics, sound, and the code to bind it together
18:44:53  <nielsm> the code alone to play back music can easily exceed 64 kb if it's not designed and special purposed for making size restricted demos/intros
18:45:44  <Samu> reminds me of those old .com files that were shipped in hacked games
18:46:02  <nielsm> funny you should say that because that's where they descend from
18:46:05  <Samu> funky tune with weird visuals
18:46:37  <nielsm> this category on display right now is called intro because it descends from crack intros
18:49:17  <Samu> video doesn't play for me anymore
18:49:20  <Samu> says offline
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18:53:16  <Samu> screw them
18:53:20  <Samu> it's offline for me
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19:04:36  <glx> and 64kb is really small
19:08:51  <andythenorth> there was a power cut
19:09:03  <andythenorth> big bang, and the power was gone
19:15:41  <peter1138> Nice.
19:16:03  <andythenorth> I am in the countryside
19:16:25  <andythenorth> something tripped at the nearest HV substation
19:17:48  <andythenorth> I think a fused destructively failed
19:17:55  <andythenorth> but I can't find a YT video of that :P
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19:39:44  <andythenorth> hmm
19:39:55  <andythenorth> so I've split classes, e.g. DumpTruck and DumpTram
19:40:14  <andythenorth> is feldbahn DumpTram, with the label set?
19:40:19  <andythenorth> or is it DumpFeldbahn?
19:40:20  <andythenorth> :P
19:40:24  * andythenorth will find out
19:41:59  <andythenorth> peter1138: how's RUKTS? o_O
19:50:22  <peter1138> Dunno, playing Doom (2016)
19:50:58  <Artea> huhu
19:51:16  <Artea> I bought SSD
19:51:20  <Artea> cheap! :D
19:51:43  <Artea> 27 euros
19:51:50  <Artea> also, DVD
19:51:51  <Artea> lol
19:52:02  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7516: Memory measurement and limits for Squirrel
19:52:26  <andythenorth> ooh
19:52:27  <Artea> 1,9 GB of Windows Update ;)
19:52:30  <andythenorth> I have original Doom
19:52:40  <Artea> play Brutal DooM :D
19:54:09  <nielsm> hmm I wonder if I can make sqmem.cpp be just two line adds instead of a full replacement, but the existing code has tabs in bad places and those may get caught
19:54:37  <nielsm> or if I should just remove the file and remove the define option to not use the new allocator
20:06:32  <andythenorth> oops
20:06:40  * andythenorth played PRBoom (Doom) for a bit
20:10:32  <Artea>
20:11:40  <Artea> andythenorth: watch that
20:11:51  <Artea> is so gore and... brutal!
20:15:26  <milek7> nielsm: does openttd on 32bit windows use /LARGEADDRESSAWARE?
20:15:46  <nielsm> I don't know, but it doesn't make much difference
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20:16:02  <glx> you gain 1Go
20:16:26  <glx> and it also needs to be enabled at the OS level
20:16:39  <nielsm> yeah that's not much compared to the amount of address space you get on 64 bit
20:17:16  <nielsm> whether you have 2, 3, or 4 GB of address space doesn't make that much difference if you want to run multiple memory hungry AIs
20:27:48  <Samu> I wanna run 15 BorkAIs
20:27:51  <Samu> :)
20:27:53  <Samu> j/k
20:27:59  <Samu> 1 TB of RAM
20:28:26  <Samu> BorkAI is the kind of AI that thinks too much, and executes too little
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20:47:38  * andythenorth does stupid multiple inheritance mixins again :P
20:47:39  <andythenorth> oof
20:51:16  * andythenorth rely doesn't trust multiple inheritance :P
20:56:05  <peter1138> kk
21:03:45  <andythenorth> did you win Doom?
21:04:40  <peter1138> I... finished a level.
21:06:23  <peter1138> I think I broke something.
21:06:33  <peter1138> Or maybe not. I'm not sure.
21:07:41  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
21:09:56  <andythenorth> a bone?
21:11:48  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7516: Memory measurement and limits for Squirrel
21:13:33  <peter1138> Ah, I filtered the scenario editor so that only town-built roads could be placed. Probably wrong.
21:14:30  <peter1138> Okay but...
21:15:06  <peter1138> Why can you place tram track but not rail track?
21:17:16  <LordAro> tram track can be owned by towns?
21:17:19  <peter1138> No.
21:17:33  <LordAro> so who owns scenario editor built tram track?
21:17:51  <peter1138> Owner: N/A
21:18:08  <LordAro> i might suggest that's a bug
21:21:15  <peter1138> Why?
21:21:41  <peter1138> If a company goes bankrupt, its tram track (and roads) become owned by noone.
21:22:09  * andythenorth considers JFDI as a roadtype label
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21:27:58  <peter1138> Hmm, I thought company-owned stuff was wiped when you loaded a save into the scenario editor. Apparently not.
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21:37:51  <andythenorth> ouch bedtime
21:37:56  <peter1138> Nope.
21:38:00  <peter1138> It's not 2.30am yet/
21:38:27  * andythenorth is failing
21:38:28  <Artea> lol
21:38:35  <Artea> watching SAO
21:38:58  <Artea> while installing Windows updates
21:39:15  <andythenorth> oh I broke coop jenkins with Hog 2
21:39:17  <andythenorth> oh dear
21:39:25  <andythenorth> bed :)
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22:17:53  <peter1138> So er
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22:52:29  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on issue #6507: Crash: corrupt savegame
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23:33:06  <nielsm> now the 256 byte category on at revision
23:34:07  <nielsm> "platform: dosbox"
23:43:29  <peter1138> Hmm
23:52:29  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on issue #6605: Crash: loading savegame

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