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00:06:44 *** kiwitree has joined #openttd 00:07:46 *** Progman has quit IRC 00:09:09 <Eddi|zuHause> usually the low sides can be flipped so it's completely flat 00:14:49 *** SimYouLater has quit IRC 00:24:06 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 00:26:18 *** spnda has quit IRC 00:27:31 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #7587: Crash on loading saved game from #1131 https://git.io/fj8Vm 00:45:23 *** ircer[m] has joined #openttd 00:50:13 *** josef[m] has joined #openttd 01:00:46 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 01:14:48 *** Samu has quit IRC 01:25:56 *** arikover has quit IRC 01:27:33 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 01:38:41 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 01:39:03 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 01:50:05 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 02:20:21 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 02:23:38 *** debdog has quit IRC 02:26:03 *** kiwitree has quit IRC 02:30:41 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 03:14:15 *** glx has quit IRC 04:30:55 <Corns[m]> Patch idea: during world gen, roads connect towns, like in simutrans 04:34:24 <Corns[m]> Q: which files are responsible for handling world gen? 04:37:29 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 06:06:13 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 06:06:13 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 06:08:58 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 06:09:20 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 06:13:26 *** tokai has quit IRC 06:25:22 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 06:25:32 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:44:22 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 06:48:53 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 06:57:46 *** nielsm has quit IRC 07:03:27 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:03:31 <andythenorth> HELLO 07:54:56 *** Samu has joined #openttd 07:57:14 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 08:03:22 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:16:02 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:19:22 * andythenorth wonders about vehicles setting a multiplier to prop 12 08:19:32 <andythenorth> (cargo prop 12) 08:19:34 <andythenorth> price factor 08:19:57 <andythenorth> maybe that has horrible performance though 08:41:54 *** Progman has joined #openttd 09:15:43 <andythenorth> hmm 09:16:10 <andythenorth> I love seeing newgrfs working in OpenTTD :D 09:16:34 <andythenorth> I know I complain a lot, but making things for OpenTTD is really fun 09:17:56 <andythenorth> BBL 09:18:02 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 09:49:19 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 09:54:40 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 09:55:22 *** Gumle2 has joined #openttd 10:00:57 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 10:09:02 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 10:10:15 <andythenorth_> maybe a compile time flag to drop all cargo sprites etc in Horse? 10:10:43 <andythenorth_> might save 10 seconds or so 10:18:28 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 10:19:23 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 10:24:36 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 10:31:51 <andythenorth_> split Horse into separate grfs? 10:32:09 <andythenorth_> engines grf, wagons grf, etc 10:36:47 <frosch123> debug and release builds? 10:39:17 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 10:39:25 <Wolf01> o/ 10:43:03 <andythenorth_> frosch maybe yes 10:43:30 <andythenorth_> shame we can’t nest grfs 10:45:25 <andythenorth_> hmm 10:45:36 * andythenorth_ has more ideas 10:48:33 <andythenorth_> diff the nml, use some cached nfo & grfcodec if the nml is unchanged 10:49:31 <frosch123> grfcoded has no spritecache 10:49:43 <frosch123> so, encoding will be slower 10:49:58 <frosch123> you are probably better off to generate multiple nml and grf files 10:51:31 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 10:53:05 <Eddi|zuHause> ... didn't he already have provisions for "only make one vehicle"? 11:05:52 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 11:07:27 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 11:07:59 <andythenorth> frosch123: the grfcodec encode of Horse is about 3 seconds 11:08:21 <andythenorth> although that's based on a -d decode, with only 9 spritesheets 11:08:59 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 11:09:15 <Corns[m]> Grfs can have dependencies, right? 11:11:24 <andythenorth> kinda 11:12:39 <frosch123> andythenorth: you can also disable cropping 11:12:56 <frosch123> but with same settings, nml encoding should not be slower than grfcodec 11:13:46 <andythenorth> the nmlc encoding is now fast, because I no longer throw away the sprite cache 11:13:55 <andythenorth> but the parse and preprocessing steps are slow 11:14:28 <andythenorth> the specific case I think will be faster with grfcode is changes to only realsprites 11:15:15 * andythenorth tries to remember how to grfcodec :P 11:17:28 <andythenorth> 4s or so for grfcodec 11:17:45 <andythenorth> it's expecting a 'sprites' path though, so I'd have to refactor the generated directory structure 11:18:00 <andythenorth> comparison 11:18:17 <andythenorth> iron-horse.nml -> nmlc -> grf ~30s average 11:18:29 <andythenorth> iron-horse.nfo -> grfcodec -> grf 5s average 11:19:05 <andythenorth> so if iron-horse.nml diffs as unchanged, I might as well branch to grfcodec 11:19:18 <Eddi|zuHause> if you were using makefile, inserting grfcodec would be quite simple 11:19:23 <andythenorth> I am 11:19:56 <Eddi|zuHause> add switch to nmlc to generate nfo instead of grf 11:20:04 <andythenorth> trying to work out the overhead 11:20:14 <Eddi|zuHause> add entry to make grf from nfo via grfcodec 11:20:19 <andythenorth> in cases where the nml file *has* changed, this adds a 5 second overhead to every compile 11:20:30 <Eddi|zuHause> remove sprites as dependency from the nmlc stage, and add them to the grfcodec stage 11:20:41 <andythenorth> so working with e.g. vehicle properties will be much slower 11:20:49 <andythenorth> but drawing pixels will be much faster 11:21:15 <Eddi|zuHause> overhead will be less than that 11:21:24 <Eddi|zuHause> because nmlc does not process sprites anymore 11:21:35 <Eddi|zuHause> so should be quicker 11:22:13 <andythenorth> I'm not convinced by that yet 11:22:21 <andythenorth> let's see 11:24:36 <andythenorth> ok it's marginal 11:24:49 <andythenorth> averaging 33 seconds for nmlc -> grf 11:24:56 <andythenorth> averaging 31 seconds for nmlc -> nfo 11:25:05 <andythenorth> fully primed nml cache 11:25:48 <andythenorth> 25s gain for changes that only touch realsprites, vs. 2s loss in cases where props etc have changed 11:31:36 <andythenorth> frosch123: presuming nmlc builds some tree in memory, is there any mileage in pickling that, and passing it back to nmlc if they nml is unchanged? 11:31:59 <andythenorth> pickle is slow, but eh 11:35:27 <frosch123> i have some old numbers, when i tried 11:35:39 <frosch123> writing the cache is +50% to parsing time 11:35:56 <frosch123> readnig the cache is 20% of parsing time 11:36:21 <frosch123> cache file size is 7x to 10x the nml source size 11:38:20 <andythenorth> tradeoff doesn't look winning 11:38:25 <frosch123> overall you needed to compile 5 times with valid cache to make up the time for creating the cache 11:42:50 <andythenorth> ok thanks :) 11:51:49 <andythenorth> dropping the cargo graphics 11:52:13 <andythenorth> cuts the nmlc time from about 30 seconds to about 10 seconds 11:52:25 <andythenorth> and the grfcodec time from about 5s to 0.5s 12:01:38 <andythenorth> so I can maybe knock up to 40s off a 70s compile 12:02:46 * andythenorth tries 12:07:04 <andythenorth> sys.argv is a bit limited eh 12:07:13 <Eddi|zuHause> why? 12:09:11 <_dp_> hi, what is the max amount of layouts industry can have? 256? 12:11:14 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: optional args aren't trivial with sys.argv afaict 12:11:22 <andythenorth> doesn't matter, it works 12:11:36 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you'd usually use a configparser? 12:11:42 <andythenorth> yes 12:11:45 <andythenorth> I'm not 12:12:01 <andythenorth> what I have is really rudimentary 12:12:10 <Eddi|zuHause> also, if you're using make, then maybe env would be better than argv? 12:12:58 <Eddi|zuHause> make SKIP_CARGO=true 12:13:32 <Eddi|zuHause> and then in python check whether env contains SKIP_CARGO? 12:13:41 <andythenorth> that might be better 12:13:51 <andythenorth> I'll make it work, and then link to the comimt 12:13:53 <andythenorth> commit * 12:14:01 <andythenorth> the args have been too crude for years 12:19:48 <andythenorth> well that saves about 55% in cases where it can be used 12:20:27 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/revisions/19fbe521094a 12:21:00 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: ^ that includes the crap argv parsing I'm doing 12:21:19 <_dp_> there is argparse for any real applications 12:21:20 <andythenorth> it was 'good enough' about 8 years ago :P 12:21:26 <_dp_> argv is just for debugging 12:22:02 <andythenorth> might be better to switch to env, I never figured out how to pass args when running a specific python script 12:22:11 <andythenorth> dunno 12:22:21 * andythenorth happy to take pull requests :P 12:23:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't done configparser in a while 12:24:20 <andythenorth> now let's combine that with grfcodec 12:24:29 * andythenorth will inevitably have make questions :P 12:52:33 *** arikover has joined #openttd 12:55:29 <Eddi|zuHause> so i "bought" this thing: https://store.steampowered.com/app/325180/AppGameKit_Easy_Game_Development/ anyone know what to do with it? 12:56:21 <nakki> reading the reviews, apparently the thing they're giving away for free now isn't the full license 12:57:01 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: make a game! 12:58:13 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: L81 or so, nmlc runs always, how do I stop that? :) 12:58:14 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/revisions/19fbe521094a/entry/Makefile#L69 12:58:30 <andythenorth> oh that's the wrong rev, silly redmine 12:58:58 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/revisions/a81478a26e0e/entry/Makefile#L89 or so 12:59:01 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: remove "$(GRAPHICS_DIR)", put that on the grfcodec part? 13:00:48 <andythenorth> I gave you the wrong url the first time 13:00:50 <andythenorth> sorry :P 13:00:55 <Eddi|zuHause> still same 13:01:02 <Eddi|zuHause> remove it from the nmlc part 13:01:10 <Eddi|zuHause> have it only on the grfcodec part 13:01:21 <andythenorth> oh yes 13:01:23 <andythenorth> ok 13:01:24 <andythenorth> thanks 13:02:08 <andythenorth> hmm that doesn't work yet 13:02:30 <andythenorth> probably the docs 13:03:07 <Eddi|zuHause> remove the docs there as well 13:03:34 <Eddi|zuHause> that dependency seems to be nonsense 13:04:25 <Eddi|zuHause> or, backwards 13:05:56 <andythenorth> wouldn't surprise me 13:06:18 <andythenorth> anyway, that's a 10 second compile if I'm only changing sprites, and I drop all cargo sprites 13:06:45 <andythenorth> much better payoff than me trying to rewrite nmlc myself :( 13:07:57 <andythenorth> oof 13:08:06 <andythenorth> now the docs render after the nml 13:08:12 * andythenorth will come back to that 13:08:45 <andythenorth> 13 seconds if the cargo sprites are enabled 13:09:23 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: so the docs...what should I be doing? 13:09:30 <andythenorth> I need the docs built early in the compile 13:09:37 <Eddi|zuHause> why? 13:09:51 <Eddi|zuHause> why would anything depend on the docs? 13:10:00 <andythenorth> because the compile is so slow that I can often open the docs, check the result, and ctrl-c the compile if the result is bad 13:10:29 <andythenorth> but if the result is good, I let the compile continue 13:10:55 <Eddi|zuHause> if they're independent tasks, make -j12 should figure it out 13:13:16 <andythenorth> both the docs and the grf are co-dependent on the graphics, 13:13:18 <andythenorth> in series 13:13:26 <andythenorth> but docs are parallel to grf 13:13:35 <andythenorth> how do I express that in make rules 13:16:19 <Eddi|zuHause> if they're dependent, you put it in the dependency, if they're not, you leave it out 13:17:57 <andythenorth> wait, so I already have 'default: html_docs grf' 13:19:16 *** Gumle2 has quit IRC 13:19:43 <andythenorth> hmm doesn't trigger if graphics change 13:20:16 *** Gumle2 has joined #openttd 13:20:31 <andythenorth> I don't hate make, I just don't understand it 13:24:48 <andythenorth> what's the .PHONY doing in this case? 13:25:07 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/revisions/106ea41a628a/entry/Makefile#L52 13:38:51 <arikover> andythenorth: Hello. Sorry to bother again, I'm translating Iron Horse and need some insights on some new freight cars. 13:38:55 <andythenorth> yup 13:39:18 <andythenorth> tell me, I'll find pictures 13:39:24 <arikover> andythenorth: So: What is the difference between a plate car and a flatcar? 13:40:18 <FLHerne> andythenorth: I hear you should be using Meson now :P 13:40:23 <arikover> andythenorth: Someone(s) already found pictures for this one yesterday, but I don't understand exactly the difference: are the sides not removable on the plate cars? 13:40:51 <andythenorth> some are, some aren't 13:41:02 <andythenorth> I considered using 'low-side open car' 13:41:25 <andythenorth> http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1541/1303/products/W-609_grande.jpg?v=1535718948 13:41:41 <andythenorth> 'plate car' is a very specific UK use, not used anywhere else I could find 13:42:18 <arikover> andythenorth: "Low-side open car" <- maybe I could translate that instead? Yeah, I couldn't find any references of plate cars outside UK. 13:42:50 <andythenorth> Europe calls them flat wagons, because the sides are removable 13:42:56 <andythenorth> and the US doesn't seem to have them 13:44:46 <arikover> I could find something approaching, like "low-side open car" then. OK. 13:45:03 <arikover> andythenorth: ...and the second one: what is the difference between an aggregate hopper and a standard hopper? 13:45:22 <andythenorth> good question 13:45:46 <andythenorth> I've turned aggregate hoppers off in current Iron Horse 13:45:53 <arikover> andythenorth: Is it supposed to transport special cargo (like not-coal)? 13:45:54 <andythenorth> I'm not convinced about the names 13:46:45 <arikover> andythenorth: But you already drew the sprites? 13:46:52 <andythenorth> yeah, but I've removed them 13:47:14 <andythenorth> they're just graphical options, but the names are confusing 13:47:48 <andythenorth> I want to put them back 13:47:54 <andythenorth> but I don't know how to name them 13:48:35 <arikover> andythenorth: Do you have any photos I could base myself on? 13:48:59 <andythenorth> hopper https://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/133008425862-0-1/s-l1000.jpg 13:49:25 <andythenorth> aggregate hopper https://i.ytimg.com/vi/uX7U-XwwyL8/maxresdefault.jpg 13:49:38 <andythenorth> one type is silver, and used primarily for coal 13:49:48 <andythenorth> the other type is company colour, and used primarily for stone, sand etc 13:50:22 <andythenorth> there are other differences in real life, but too boring to feature in game 13:51:10 <arikover> What are they? (it could maybe help for the translation) 13:51:35 <FLHerne> arikover: From a real-life perspective, rock aggregates and ores are /much/ denser than coal 13:52:46 <FLHerne> So a coal hopper filled to the brim with rock would be *far* too heavy 13:53:02 <andythenorth> also the doors on coal hoppers are open / closed 13:53:05 <andythenorth> they flood unload 13:53:22 <andythenorth> the doors on agg hoppers have variable opening, for controlled rate 13:53:56 <FLHerne> In the UK, since coal traffic fell off a cliff several companies have been converting coal hoppers to carry aggregate by essentially cutting out 1/3 of the length 13:56:24 <FLHerne> See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Construction_aggregate 13:57:56 <andythenorth> in the US https://www.trovestar.com/images/Collections/0/gallery/tsg_45284_1_1.jpg 13:57:59 <andythenorth> aggregate 13:58:06 <andythenorth> coal http://freightcaramerica.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/autoflood_III.jpg 13:59:51 <arikover> FLHerne andythenorth: So the aggregate hopper are designed to carry denser loads (shorter design), and have a more subtle unloading process (in a -rough- nutshell)? 14:00:07 <andythenorth> yup 14:00:10 <FLHerne> Yes 14:00:32 <arikover> Okay. Thank you very much for your answsers! 14:00:47 <andythenorth> if you come up with a name let me know :P 14:01:09 <andythenorth> I have turned them off until I'm satisfied with the name 14:01:29 <FLHerne> I don't see what's wrong with "aggregate hopper" tbh 14:01:36 <andythenorth> or maybe I should name 'hopper' as 'coal hopper' even though it refits other things 14:01:37 <andythenorth> dunno 14:01:38 <FLHerne> They're hoppers for aggregate 14:01:52 <andythenorth> they do refit coal and stuff, because no point limiting gameplay 14:02:00 <FLHerne> Oh, fun 14:02:01 <andythenorth> but they default to stone etc if present in the game 14:06:32 <andythenorth> hmm 14:06:40 <andythenorth> I absolutely don't understand make 14:07:49 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/entry/Makefile#L53 14:08:10 <andythenorth> I need to trigger rebuilding the docs if any .png files in src have changed 14:08:22 <andythenorth> or if anything has changed in generated/graphics 14:08:56 <andythenorth> in fact the .png files are irrelevant, generated/graphics would catch the case 14:09:04 <andythenorth> but it stubbornly does not work 14:11:54 <andythenorth> html_docs is in the default target 14:12:02 <andythenorth> it has $(GRAPHICS_DIR) as a dept 14:12:04 <andythenorth> dep * 14:21:20 *** Flygon has quit IRC 14:24:53 *** Gumle2 has quit IRC 14:29:31 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 14:32:45 *** Gumle2 has joined #openttd 14:33:15 <nielsm> so did anything interesting happen over the weekend? 14:39:15 <arikover> FLHerne andythenorth: Heavy Load Hopper? But Aggregate Hopper is perfectly fine. I just wanted to know the difference for the translation. 14:43:17 <arikover> andythenorth: Maybe hoppers' capacity for coal could be a bit lower compared to other aggregates, as it has a lower density? But that would be "realistic", and not really fun... 14:53:03 *** Gumle2 has quit IRC 15:11:21 <juzza1> andythenorth: if i do "touch generated/graphics" and then make, it rebuilds the docs 15:12:05 <juzza1> changing a png does not update the directory timestamp though, so i guess you need the actual generated pngs as dependency as well? 15:15:37 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 15:30:47 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: how does the stuff in generated/graphics get created? 15:34:05 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you might want to also generate a .dep file 15:37:24 <Eddi|zuHause> ... it takes 4 more minutes to update my iron horse checkout 15:38:34 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 15:43:54 <andythenorth> the stuff in generated/graphics is created by render_graphics.py 15:44:15 <andythenorth> the GRAPHICS_DIR target appears to pick up all the deps reliably 15:45:16 <andythenorth> I could learn about the nmlc -M option for deps, but it seems to require learning something for no benefit :P 15:49:27 <andythenorth> wait wat 15:49:34 <andythenorth> 'make' causes the docs to build 15:49:37 <andythenorth> 'make install' does not 15:50:19 <andythenorth> ok 15:50:34 <andythenorth> I just paste $(HTML_DOCS) in even more places 15:51:23 <andythenorth> pasting things to more places seems to be how make works 15:52:41 <peter1138> En-route pork pies, eh? 15:55:09 *** glx has joined #openttd 15:55:09 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 15:58:57 <LordAro> peter1138: just the minisnack ones i brought with me 16:02:12 <peter1138> I didn't have any energy or food enroute today, but I was by myself again. 16:02:50 <peter1138> In which case I slow down without noticing/causing others to wait. 16:14:48 <andythenorth> so many variants :P https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9446/much_train.png 16:25:45 <andythenorth> lol 13 second Horse compiles 16:25:53 * andythenorth will stop moaning for a bit 16:26:02 <andythenorth> this is happy emoji time 16:34:41 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 16:35:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think i see what you think is right/wrong 16:35:57 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 16:36:35 *** Gumle2 has joined #openttd 16:37:30 <andythenorth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/peczugsqb/hmpmda/raw 16:37:48 <andythenorth> I'm unfortunately throwing away the benefit of the nmlc spritecache 16:38:11 <Eddi|zuHause> make a grfcodec spritecache 16:38:12 <andythenorth> but I have implicit and explicit options for compiles to go faster in common cases 16:38:48 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 16:39:23 <andythenorth> this addresses the most boring case, which is waiting 1m to see a few pixels difference in game 16:39:31 <Eddi|zuHause> for some reason my youtube suggestions are full of (old) ESC content 16:39:38 <andythenorth> and the second most boring case, which is tweaking costs etc 16:39:46 <andythenorth> oof the power of suggestion 16:39:52 * andythenorth now watches YT 16:39:58 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 16:40:31 <Eddi|zuHause> not the new stuff, stuff like "watch this song from 1975" 16:47:41 * andythenorth wonders about teaching nmlc that the input .nml hasn't changed 16:47:59 <andythenorth> if it made a .nml.bak file at the end of the compile, it could compare on next run 16:48:54 <andythenorth> nah 16:48:56 <andythenorth> won't work 16:49:00 <andythenorth> onwards :D 16:54:23 <Eddi|zuHause> same way as with the graphics, you output to a .nml.new file, and if cmp says no differences, you leave the .nml untouched, otherwise overwrite it 16:55:09 <Eddi|zuHause> make will then recognize that the file date was not changed, and skip some further processing 16:55:24 <Eddi|zuHause> (assumes proper dependencies) 16:55:42 <andythenorth> I was thinking about a PR for actual nmlc 16:55:49 <Eddi|zuHause> no 16:55:50 <andythenorth> but it won't have any structure to encode 16:55:53 <andythenorth> won't work 16:56:07 <Eddi|zuHause> this is pure makefile stuff 16:56:19 <andythenorth> yes, I have that working 16:56:27 <andythenorth> that's why I wondered if it can be generalised :P 16:56:40 <andythenorth> bundle grfcodec with nmlc? :P 16:56:58 <Eddi|zuHause> if you go on, you land on my ignore list 16:57:28 <andythenorth> I wasn't trolling that one :P 16:57:57 <andythenorth> grfcodec is a pretty good tool 16:59:09 <andythenorth> some of the suggestions for nml speed have revolved around 'rewrite in C++' 16:59:40 <andythenorth> meanwhile frosch has tested disk caching the nmlc tree structure and it's a poor tradeoff 16:59:55 <andythenorth> but nfo is a perfect intermediate format, and we already have the encoder 17:00:20 <andythenorth> and it's very very fast 17:00:58 <Eddi|zuHause> but both are fine standalone tools, there is no need to "bundle" them 17:05:54 <andythenorth> people who need the nmlc.exe won't be able to get grfcodec? 17:05:55 <andythenorth> dunno 17:06:00 <andythenorth> I have no idea actually 17:07:14 <Eddi|zuHause> you're just making compiling and distributing more complicated for no benefit 17:07:30 <Eddi|zuHause> people who can install nmlc.exe can also install grfcodec.exe 17:07:41 <andythenorth> ok so it would just be a dep 17:08:04 <Eddi|zuHause> grfcodec is not a dep of nmlc 17:08:09 <andythenorth> I know 17:08:15 <andythenorth> nvm 17:08:19 <Eddi|zuHause> your makefile just has two deps 17:08:34 <andythenorth> I just find it depressing that the general case doesn't get improved 17:08:41 <andythenorth> I do things to make my compiles faster 17:08:45 <andythenorth> but nobody else benefits 17:08:56 <andythenorth> it always comes back to 'rewrite nmlc properly' 17:09:05 <andythenorth> but there's nobody even maintaining the docs right now 17:09:08 <andythenorth> so that's not gonna happen 17:10:33 <andythenorth> I just wondered how many lines it would be to add an arg, so that grfcodec is the encoder 17:10:49 <andythenorth> and have nmlc do a diff on the .nml file before parsing 17:11:14 <andythenorth> it was surprisingly quick to do for me in my compile, and I wish I'd thought of it before :P 17:11:46 <andythenorth> python subprocess is a bit of a faff though 17:19:07 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: no, that is out of scope for a compile tool 17:21:53 <andythenorth> oh well 17:21:58 <andythenorth> I'll just keep solving my own problems then 17:22:23 <andythenorth> that might be fine, nobody else seems to have nmlc problems 17:35:04 *** Gumle2 has quit IRC 18:14:48 *** cHawk has quit IRC 18:37:58 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 19:10:49 *** gelignite has quit IRC 19:26:13 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 19:31:02 <andythenorth> was it lunch? 19:34:18 *** Gumle2 has joined #openttd 19:42:25 <peter1138> not yet 19:45:34 <andythenorth> did you finish Doom yet? 19:46:14 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 19:58:08 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 20:06:02 *** cHawk has quit IRC 20:06:34 *** Gumle2 has quit IRC 20:08:06 <peter1138> Which Doom? I've been playing WADs for Doom II, and also the 2016 remake. 20:16:32 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 20:17:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think i had lunch 20:20:44 *** natmac[m] has joined #openttd 20:20:57 <frosch123> you should be amout done with the late dinner, and prepare for the midnight snack 20:21:02 <frosch123> *about 20:31:43 * andythenorth wonders if newgrf vehicles could modify cargo price factor 20:31:55 * andythenorth assumes that might have performance issues 20:32:35 <Eddi|zuHause> the industry set can define custom price calculation, afair 20:34:33 <andythenorth> hmm 20:34:53 <andythenorth> there is a cb for custom profit yes 20:35:07 <andythenorth> I am a bit wary of diverging too far from the cargo payment graphs 20:35:47 <andythenorth> I did try to make vehicle aging period 'work' on small maps by setting aggressive t1, t2 decay periods on some cargos 20:36:08 <andythenorth> but it makes very little difference until about 128 tiles (subject to vehicle speed) 20:36:27 <Eddi|zuHause> that seems like the intended purpose 20:38:26 <andythenorth> I tested quite a few things, but concluded that 'make cargo age periods work' isn't going in Horse 2.0.0 20:38:51 <andythenorth> obvs. they do work, just Horse was designed against a misunderstanding of them 21:00:06 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:03:28 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 21:18:04 *** sla_ro|master2 has joined #openttd 21:22:23 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:36:33 *** grossing has joined #openttd 21:46:55 *** sla_ro|master2 has quit IRC 21:54:37 *** nielsm has quit IRC 21:59:00 *** _lpx has joined #openttd 22:00:12 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 22:00:38 *** lpx has quit IRC 22:09:19 *** _lpx is now known as lpx 22:30:32 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:35:11 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 22:35:27 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 22:35:46 *** Thedarkb1 has joined #openttd 22:53:16 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 23:02:22 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 23:24:46 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 23:24:56 *** Thedarkb1 has quit IRC 23:26:11 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 23:28:32 *** arikover has quit IRC 23:31:23 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 23:31:39 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 23:31:53 *** Thedarkb1 has joined #openttd