Log for #openttd on 20th May 2019:
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08:30:15  <peter1138> Is it lunch yet?
08:30:40  <nakki> it's about lunchtime
08:30:58  <peter1138> Somewhere...
08:31:38  <nakki> 11:31 here, so perfect lunchtime
08:31:46  <nakki> although if i was at work, i would've already gone half an hour ago
08:31:52  <nakki> to avoid the rush
08:40:18  <peter1138> That still sounds early for lunch.
08:40:35  <nakki> i don't eat breakfast
08:40:41  <nakki> it's a conspiracy by cereal companies to sell more corn flakes
08:41:04  <peter1138> I had toast, so that's a fail.
08:41:47  <peter1138> And a piece of fruit.
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09:30:52  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] closed issue #6266: UI Zoom: ugly lists in network windows on double/quad interface sizes with custom fonts
09:33:06  <_dp_> oh, I thought it was fixed long ago...
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11:46:01  <peter1138> Lunch time?
11:52:02  <LordAro> yes
11:52:17  <andythenorth> yes
11:52:24  <andythenorth> m+c
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12:18:52  <andythenorth> hi snail_UES_
12:19:12  <snail_UES_> hey andythenorth
12:19:26  <andythenorth> how's French trains going? :)
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13:07:16  <supermop_work> yo
13:11:13  <peter1138> andythenorth, very well I guess.
13:14:25  <planetmaker> on rails, wheels powered by electric motors :P
13:29:18  <supermop_work> hi all
13:34:56  * andythenorth wonders about hi-speed railtype
13:34:58  <andythenorth> with curve bonus
13:35:07  <supermop_work> sure
13:35:15  * andythenorth must learn to railtype then
13:35:38  <V453000> what do you need to do?
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13:38:02  <andythenorth> make a railtype
13:38:09  <andythenorth> that uses existing base set sprites
13:38:14  <andythenorth> but goes faster in curves
13:38:24  <planetmaker> faster?
13:39:58  <V453000> well just set the multiplier :)
13:40:05  <planetmaker> yeah curve_speed_multiplier
13:40:14  <V453000> yeah that
13:40:23  <planetmaker> so probably just redefine ELRL with that single property and that's it
13:40:45  <andythenorth> I'll need a label?
13:41:06  <planetmaker> ah, yes, you want a separate one
13:41:11  <planetmaker> but identically looking?
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13:41:23  <andythenorth> yes
13:41:26  <andythenorth> also hi both
13:42:04  <andythenorth> seems HSTR
13:42:06  <planetmaker> probably... difficult. you will need graphics.
13:42:19  <andythenorth> or maybe I'm supposed to use
13:42:21  <andythenorth> dunno
13:42:40  <V453000> doesn't the universal railtype newgrf define a new railtype that looks like RAIL ?
13:42:51  <planetmaker> whatever floats your boat. And set it to compatible to the others which might suit
13:43:10  <planetmaker> V453000, maybe... dunno :) would make it easy
13:43:26  <V453000> I think NUTS did that at some point as well
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13:45:06  <planetmaker> might actually work if you simply don't define any of the graphical callbacks
13:45:18  <V453000> yes
13:45:19  <V453000>
13:45:51  <planetmaker> so you just gave the whole NewGRF, and only line 14 needs to be changed
13:46:21  <planetmaker> and 4
13:46:26  <V453000> I think line 14 only influences depots and stations
13:46:37  <planetmaker> curve_speed_multiplier?
13:46:42  <andythenorth> hurrah
13:46:55  <planetmaker> you mean 15 @ V :)
13:46:55  <V453000> oh nvm
13:46:58  <V453000> yeah
13:47:00  <V453000> sorry
13:48:24  * V453000 should go
13:48:26  <V453000> laters
13:49:02  <planetmaker> If a callback is not implemented or fails, graphics from the fallback railtype (picked via the station_graphics property) will be used instead.
13:49:46  <planetmaker> so... yes, easy :) Much easier than I thought
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16:53:54  <andythenorth> is the title game now zoomed in for everyone? o_O
16:53:58  <andythenorth> or did I break something?
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16:57:42  <LordAro> andythenorth: i feel like someone would've said...
16:57:56  <andythenorth> maybe i'm the only one using UI zoom?
16:59:11  <andythenorth> yeah, 2x UI zoom also zooms the title game
16:59:30  <andythenorth> and on 1x ui zoom, the general breakage is....interesting
16:59:35  <andythenorth> I will screenshot when I get home
17:02:18  <LordAro> very curious
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18:06:46  <andythenorth> so how do I make trains run on my new railtype? :)
18:06:52  <andythenorth> do I have to set the railtype on the train?
18:15:14  <planetmaker> or set the compatibilities of the railtype accordingly.
18:16:06  <andythenorth> that won't work, afaict :)
18:16:09  <andythenorth> and doesn't in game
18:16:24  <andythenorth> "Provide a list of rail types that trains of this type are powered on."
18:16:36  <andythenorth> so the label is "UNIV" and my train is "ELRL"
18:16:44  <andythenorth>
18:17:10  <andythenorth> I need to make the train "UNIV" and set it to also be powered on ELRL?
18:17:24  * andythenorth tries it
18:18:29  <andythenorth> hmm, this means all trains need to be UNIV
18:18:48  <juzza1> if you want your train to be ELRL, you need to put UNIV in ELRL's compatible_railtype_list and powered_railtype_list
18:19:00  <andythenorth> but ELRL is defined by base game?
18:19:04  <andythenorth> so I redefine ELRL?
18:19:18  <juzza1> yea
18:19:25  <andythenorth> ok thx
18:25:30  <andythenorth>
18:25:38  <andythenorth> curve_speed_multiplier 	0...65525 ?
18:25:45  <andythenorth> but prop 11 here is a byte
18:25:48  <andythenorth> docs wrong?
18:30:15  <andythenorth> looks like a byte here
18:30:25  * andythenorth will fix docs
18:38:37  <andythenorth> so what's railtypes prop 11 (curve speed multiplier) supposed to do? :)
18:43:47  <V453000> idk what it's supposed to do but, it increases the speed of a curve
18:44:08  <andythenorth> how?
18:44:24  <andythenorth> I can set the value to 0 or 255, and the train goes the same speed round the curve :D
18:44:27  <V453000> Well a curve of specific lengh, say, 3 tiles, has a specific maximum speed that trains can travel through it
18:44:54  <V453000> I think it's something like multiplication but in halfsteps or something
18:45:50  <V453000> there was a table somewhere with example values how much each default railtype has
18:45:57  <andythenorth> is this a valid test case?
18:46:02  <V453000> but basically, it was something like rail = 1, mono 2, mglv 3
18:46:11  <V453000> so the rest of the 65523 values are useless
18:46:15  <V453000> ish
18:46:26  <andythenorth> the 65523 is a mistake anyway, I've fixed that
18:46:28  <V453000> hm I don't remember mph
18:46:33  <V453000> but this looks like it's at the curve cap
18:46:47  <andythenorth> so it's 98mph, for any value between 0 and 255 for curve speed
18:46:52  <V453000> well I was just trying to point out that it would be incredibly useful to be able to set lower speeds than RAIL, not just higher
18:46:53  <andythenorth> so the prop is irrelevant?
18:46:59  <andythenorth> or I'm testing wrong?
18:47:04  <V453000> probably testing wrong
18:47:10  <andythenorth> I'm hoping
18:47:43  <V453000> NUTS seems to only use 0 but for railtypes where it doesn't matter
18:48:14  <andythenorth> I suspect it might just not work
18:48:23  <andythenorth> nobody would ever have noticed
18:48:27  * andythenorth reads openttd source
18:49:06  <V453000> The base speeds relevant for the curve_speed_multiplier are:
18:49:24  <V453000> that would mean rail has value 2, monorail 3, maglev 4
18:49:30  <V453000> IF it works
18:50:39  <planetmaker> iirc it is indeed one of those properties which are... not exactly usefully scaled
18:50:56  <andythenorth> docs suggest otherwise
18:51:25  <andythenorth>
18:51:31  <andythenorth> "base speed advantage" * (2 + "property 11")
18:51:36  <planetmaker> 100,200,300 for rail/mono/mag would be nicer, no?
18:52:16  <andythenorth>
18:52:24  <V453000> well rather 100 150 200 would be representative
18:53:24  <andythenorth> that calculation on L357 isn't what newgrf docs say?
18:53:34  <andythenorth> max_speed += (max_speed / 2) * rti->curve_speed;
18:53:39  <V453000> I can't see it being used inNUTS, but I didn't realy have a use for it since it can't reduce the speed, so it unfortunately does not conclude that I have found out it's broken
18:54:20  <V453000> well it could?
18:54:48  <V453000> if the multiplier for rail is 2 then it's double the base value
18:55:27  <V453000> which I understand as max_speed *2
18:57:18  <V453000> with 1 it would be 1,5 though I guess :)
18:57:29  <V453000> anyway, strange
18:58:02  <andythenorth> trying to figure out L349-350
18:59:05  <V453000> well I tried to set 0 to maglev in NUTS and it did something
18:59:42  <V453000> it looks like it has set it to the same as RAIL has
19:00:16  * andythenorth experiments with 3
19:00:18  <V453000> which does not make sense to me with either the function you pasted or the multiplication that I assumed :D
19:00:51  <andythenorth> nope, fuck all difference with 3 also
19:01:16  <andythenorth> back to drawing pixels?
19:01:42  <V453000> and with 2 I'm getting as much as monorail does
19:03:07  <V453000> yeah 2 is monorail
19:03:11  <V453000> so 3 maglev probably
19:03:23  <V453000> nvm
19:03:24  <V453000> 1 is monorail
19:03:46  <V453000> well that does make sense, but max_speed is then the base_speed from docs multiplied by 2
19:04:14  <andythenorth> max_speed is given by L350
19:04:29  <andythenorth>
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19:05:50  <andythenorth> dunno
19:05:53  <andythenorth> :)
19:11:36  <V453000> what in the world
19:17:15  <andythenorth> dunno
19:18:35  <andythenorth> V453000: do you get any different curve speeds if you change the prop?
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19:28:45  <andythenorth> I rm-ed all ;)
19:28:47  <andythenorth> much easier
19:30:27  <V453000> yes andy
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19:34:46  <andythenorth> it's a dumb pattern
19:34:54  <andythenorth> I find a bit of spec, then it doesn't work, then I'm sad
19:34:58  <andythenorth> I should just  not
19:35:09  <V453000> as I said, value 0 gave me rail behaviour, 1 monorail, 2 maglev
19:35:12  <V453000> so it does something
19:35:26  <V453000> but values like 3+ are only for super fast trains
19:35:48  <andythenorth> I get no change at all
19:35:56  <V453000> paste yer thing
19:36:05  <andythenorth> I've deleted all
19:36:09  <V453000> ._.
19:36:16  <andythenorth> but it was  just your paste from earlier, with curve speed changed
19:36:33  <V453000> did you use railtype ID 2 or 15?
19:36:36  <V453000> 15 was in the paste
19:36:42  <V453000> elrl might need 2, idk
19:36:50  <andythenorth> I used 14 for elrl
19:36:52  <V453000> well actually that sounds nuts specific and untrie
19:36:52  <V453000> idk
19:36:55  <V453000> hm
19:37:04  <V453000> I guess those IDs are just grf-specific
19:37:26  <andythenorth> yeah dunno :)
19:37:41  <andythenorth> this was just an idea I had to add a railtype
19:37:45  <andythenorth> but it's TMWFTLB
19:37:54  <andythenorth> and I need to find out why OpenTTD UI is fucked
19:38:03  <andythenorth> bigger problems
19:38:28  <V453000> :D
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19:45:58  <andythenorth> quak
19:46:10  <frosch123> moo
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20:02:23  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth opened issue #7599: UI zoom appearance problems relative to 1.9.1
20:03:43  <peter1138> Some of it is deliberate.
20:03:55  <peter1138> Like the error message window is meant to be wider than taller.
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20:06:50  <frosch123> wasn't the titlescreen zoom added recently?
20:07:03  <andythenorth> yeah I didn't know what's intended and what's not
20:07:12  <andythenorth> so I'm filing all of it, and it can be rejected
20:09:19  <LordAro> i'm not aware of it being intentional
20:10:48  <peter1138> Which?
20:14:08  <andythenorth> no?
20:16:25  <LordAro> hmm, fair enough
20:16:29  <LordAro> must have missed that one
20:16:46  <andythenorth> some of it, I'm probably just too old for change :P
20:17:28  <andythenorth> some of it seems to just be eating my screen
20:20:43  <andythenorth> nom nom screen :P
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20:42:33  <Eddi|zuHause> the title game zoom might clash with some mobile setups?
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20:49:47  <peter1138> Which mobile set ups are you thinking of?
20:50:52  <andythenorth> it's probably fine
20:51:33  <andythenorth> it's just lost some of the niceness in places
20:51:36  <andythenorth> and gained in others
20:51:53  <peter1138> andythenorth, don't be so all-or-nothing.
20:52:00  <peter1138> andythenorth, It's clearly a problem in some places.
20:52:17  <peter1138> Just the error message window is absolutely intentional and doesn't look wrong at all.
20:55:24  <andythenorth> I was trying to equivocate :P
20:55:29  <andythenorth> and not make dramas out of nothing :P
20:55:46  <andythenorth> also...I might get used to it
20:57:15  <peter1138> < Not a salad!
21:01:09  <andythenorth> looks like TV
21:02:48  <peter1138> Your TV looks... odd.
21:03:52  <andythenorth> shiny
21:04:19  <andythenorth> hmm
21:04:23  <andythenorth> something is missing from my life
21:04:36  <andythenorth> since 2008 and or so I've been coming here and posting "roadtypes!'
21:05:32  <andythenorth> now I can't :D
21:05:32  <andythenorth>
21:08:15  <andythenorth> WITH!!!!!
21:09:52  <frosch123> <- pick something else?
21:10:31  <frosch123> wut, you even updated it in 2017 :p
21:11:15  <andythenorth> so I did :)
21:11:46  <andythenorth> vehicles can set a multiplier to cargo price factor?
21:11:49  <andythenorth> pony
21:12:11  <andythenorth> can't think of much else tbh :)
21:12:12  <frosch123> money related ponies are meh
21:12:42  <andythenorth> it's only because I got obsessed with why cargo aging period doesn't work like I expected
21:12:45  <andythenorth> I agree it's meh
21:13:13  <andythenorth> I put a PR in to fix subtropic generator, but stalebot closed it :D
21:14:35  <frosch123> f somewhat fixed the mapgen, by adding proper previews
21:14:55  <frosch123> and making changing one thing not affect another as well
21:16:02  <andythenorth> o_O
21:17:13  <frosch123> f kept on copying bugs from ottd, but they also fixed some issues :p
21:17:30  <andythenorth> it's nice that we can keep in sync
21:17:37  <andythenorth> we could add pipe transport :P
21:17:40  <andythenorth> that would be a big pony
21:18:57  <frosch123> we should replace airports with catapults
21:19:34  <Eddi|zuHause> when did we last discuss suborbital flight?
21:21:31  <andythenorth> child #1 made a catapult
21:21:54  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: is that just like a tunnel?  wormhole?
21:22:02  <frosch123> food -> wall ?
21:22:19  <andythenorth> more serious than that
21:22:24  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: rocket starts somewhere, leaves the map, reappears elsewhere, lands
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21:22:46  <andythenorth> how about teleporters?
21:22:46  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: severed heads -> rivalling city wall?
21:23:37  <frosch123> modern games have pedestrians
21:23:42  <andythenorth> oof
21:23:47  <andythenorth> doesn't appeal
21:23:50  <frosch123> but usually they are animations independent from game logic
21:24:45  <Eddi|zuHause> in the 90s, civ 1 and 2 had global warming, then they removed it in 4 and 5 (dunno about 3), and now they brought it back in 6.
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21:26:42  <andythenorth> global warming goes in and out of fashion
21:27:08  <andythenorth> it was convenient for hydrocarbon companies to focus on the threat of terrorism :P
21:27:28  <andythenorth> some 'conspiracies' hide in plain sight :)
21:27:58  <Eddi|zuHause> ... meanwhile the US government is doing everything in their power to create more terrorism to distract from global warming?
21:29:29  <andythenorth> rattling sabres at Iran keeps the coal mines going
21:30:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not even talking about that
21:31:48  <Eddi|zuHause> more like, having flying evaporation machines shooting at wedding ceremonies and retroactively saying "we're sure those were all terrorists"
21:32:17  <andythenorth> I think that can be filed under "don't assume conspiracy when fuckup will suffice"
21:32:25  <andythenorth> on the other hand....
21:32:43  <Eddi|zuHause> it happens too often to be a fuckup
21:32:52  <andythenorth> ...creating a policy environment where this is normalised, that's not accidental
21:33:17  <andythenorth> hmm
21:33:28  <andythenorth> I think my biggest pony would be having bundles working again :P
21:33:38  <andythenorth> maybe I need to buy planetmaker a cake
21:37:51  <planetmaker> can you ssh? then give me a key and I can arrange it such that your current build process can deploy there. *I think*
21:38:32  <andythenorth> I think Azure can run scripts
21:38:38  <andythenorth> is it safe to give Azure ssh?
21:38:41  * andythenorth has NFI :)
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21:47:30  <andythenorth> I will log into Azure this week and have a look how it works
21:47:37  <andythenorth> it's designed to publish artifacts
21:47:40  <andythenorth> but it's a mysterious place
21:50:48  <planetmaker> I looked... it seems the problem is that bundles is nfs-linked to the build system... and no login user exists (yet)
21:52:24  <andythenorth> it might be a good case for a webhook
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21:55:14  <andythenorth> so that Azure hits a bundles webhook on completion of a job, with the url in the payload to the artifacts
21:55:14  <andythenorth> but I couldn't find any urls for AP artifacts
21:55:14  <andythenorth> nor how long they exist
21:57:29  <andythenorth> oh lolz
21:57:35  <andythenorth> my microsoft account is locked
21:58:04  <andythenorth> this is super
21:58:15  <andythenorth> I violated the ToS somehow
22:00:49  <andythenorth> not going in that rabbit hole now :P
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22:09:33  <Supercheese> Eddi|zuHause : Civ4 definitely had Global Warming
22:10:10  <Eddi|zuHause> are you sure?
22:10:11  <Supercheese> I remember it biting me in the rear on occasion, flooding farmland tiles with rising sea levels
22:10:55  <Supercheese> I think that was the only effect, changing land tiles to sea tiles, but that could be very problematic especially if the land tile had a valuable resource that would be lost
22:11:09  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe i'm just too good at getting renewable energy and banning nukes
22:11:16  <Eddi|zuHause> before it ever became a problem
22:11:44  <Supercheese> but nukes are renewable energy! :P
22:11:58  <Supercheese> too much meltdown risk in-game though
22:12:25  <Eddi|zuHause> i was never much of a nuclear power person
22:12:41  <Supercheese> Hydro was superior, especially the Three Gorges Dam wonder
22:12:46  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that
22:12:52  <Supercheese> knock that guy out and power for everything always
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22:13:01  <Supercheese> pretty OP
22:16:19  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe i should try civ 4 again...
22:16:29  <Eddi|zuHause> probably get wiped out early
22:36:48  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #6169: truck got a non-existing cargo
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22:57:44  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #6032: Crash while loading savegame from 0.6 in 1.4
23:08:51  <Eddi|zuHause> ... got overrun by barbarians...
23:28:38  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #5965: Loading savegame causes a crash.
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23:42:04  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #5306: Savegames Failing to Load
23:46:50  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #5305: Savegame not working for me on two computers - but works for others
23:51:18  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #5232: Assertion error on loading old game
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