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00:24:51 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 01:24:58 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 01:48:15 *** LordAro has quit IRC 01:48:17 *** LordAro has joined #openttd 01:49:40 *** Thedarkb-T60 has quit IRC 02:01:34 *** Smedles has quit IRC 02:01:57 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 02:07:28 *** Samu has quit IRC 02:17:31 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 02:19:31 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 02:22:02 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy commented on issue #7580: Feature Request: When loading a saved game, the file picker should remember the last used directory https://git.io/fjr3j 02:22:23 *** t4 has quit IRC 02:22:34 *** tyteen4a03 has joined #openttd 02:23:18 *** debdog has joined #openttd 02:26:34 *** glx has quit IRC 02:26:38 *** D-HUND has quit IRC 02:30:36 *** Taede_ has quit IRC 02:30:39 *** Taede has joined #openttd 02:42:39 *** Execthts has quit IRC 02:42:39 *** Exec has joined #openttd 03:21:01 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 03:29:13 *** urdh has quit IRC 03:51:59 *** milek7_ has quit IRC 03:51:59 *** milek7 has joined #openttd 05:29:03 *** luaduck has quit IRC 05:29:06 *** luaduck has joined #openttd 06:03:13 *** urdh has joined #openttd 06:20:16 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:21:19 *** Osai has quit IRC 06:21:31 *** Osai has joined #openttd 06:22:10 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 06:24:19 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 06:48:28 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 07:09:18 <nielsm> morning 07:09:40 <nakki> morn 07:15:18 <LordAro> mrng 07:23:11 *** ericnoan has quit IRC 07:23:14 *** ericnoan has joined #openttd 07:34:55 *** lagertonne has quit IRC 07:35:07 *** lagertonne has joined #openttd 07:37:16 *** quiznilo has quit IRC 07:46:05 *** Samu has joined #openttd 07:52:07 <Eddi|zuHause> the ending -ing usually describes a process, so "morning" is the process of becoming "morn" 08:07:19 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 08:14:48 <reldred> there is mourning involved, yes, generally. 08:29:10 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:30:11 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: o/ 08:30:38 <andythenorth> for perishable cargo payment rates: if I check cargo in vehicle for, e.g. food, milk etc 08:30:49 <andythenorth> and set the cargo aging period accordingly 08:31:07 <andythenorth> do I need to be concerned about what the cargo has actually defined as age periods? 08:31:21 <andythenorth> i.e. I don't have any way to detect what the industry set is doing 08:32:05 <andythenorth> (the concern arises when writing docs to explain to player how it works) 08:33:45 <reldred> Sigh, Andy, I hate to gush, but I really, really like those little industrial trams of yours 08:34:31 <andythenorth> in HEQS? Or Hog? 08:35:00 <reldred> One of the two. I forget which now. Which one is the Heningdorf in? 08:35:51 <andythenorth> HEQS 08:36:05 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:36:13 <reldred> :O 08:44:13 <Eddi|zuHause> ... i hate when he does that... 08:45:19 <reldred> yeah, here's me checking the credits on the grf to see whether I was actually singing praises of his mortal ttd community rivals .grf 08:45:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean, asking a question and then disappearing five minutes later 08:46:00 <reldred> lol 08:46:12 <reldred> Well yes, that too I guess. 08:46:31 <reldred> Somebody needs to set him up with znc, or irssi in a tmux session 08:46:38 <LordAro> someone should get hi- ^ 08:47:56 <Artea> I can get him a znc 08:48:03 <Artea> but doubt he would use it 08:49:52 <reldred> Strange, I never used to use road vehicles in ttd but now with cargo dist and nrt I'm using them religiously. 08:52:22 <nakki> i'd like to remind everyone that weechat > irssi 08:57:14 <reldred> look, I'd like to remind everyone that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 09:00:41 <peter1138> Yeah, cargo dist makes using different vehicle types more enjoyable. 09:02:17 <reldred> For sure. I've turned it off for regular cargo, but for passenger services I swear by it. 09:02:38 <nakki> yeah it's pretty much required for passenger and mail service to be enjoyable 09:02:51 <nakki> i still only use trains, though 09:02:53 <nakki> choo choo 09:04:28 <reldred> Yeah I default to trains, but I'm playing some really large maps (1k*4k) and using andy's industrial trams for short distance stuff and trains for long distance. 09:04:36 <nakki> ah 09:04:56 <reldred> and a few well placed tram routes in cities really help make intercity train runs more profitable. 09:05:22 <nakki> oh yeah, feeder services for trains are nice, but i usually stick to industry 09:10:55 *** Lejving has quit IRC 09:11:16 *** Lejving has joined #openttd 09:17:30 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 09:24:10 <reldred> hmmm, pathfinding for long road vehicles is interesting however. 09:24:38 <reldred> still, five tile long industrial trams just makes me giggle. 09:29:58 *** ZirconiumX has quit IRC 09:30:18 *** ZirconiumX has joined #openttd 09:31:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i usually use the shorter ones 09:31:11 <reldred> Yeah 09:31:26 <reldred> These are pushing it a bit but it's fun 09:31:36 <peter1138> Is it snack time? 09:31:54 <reldred> Yes 09:32:24 <peter1138> Legit. 09:32:46 <peter1138> Only issue is I already had a snack 15 minutes ago. I must have been very thirsty to finish that coffee in 15 minutes. 09:33:21 <reldred> black coffee is like no kilojoules so drink up 09:33:33 <reldred> til the brain aneurysm happens at least 09:41:31 <peter1138> Yeah, I tend to have a bit of food with it at around this time of day as well. 09:45:03 *** Speedy` has quit IRC 09:45:15 *** Speedy` has joined #openttd 10:26:25 <reldred> Sigh, I forgot the 'go-via' order existed and worked for road vehicles. 10:28:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure you're missing a dozen other essential features as well :p 10:28:52 <reldred> Timetables. I never learnt them 10:29:08 <Eddi|zuHause> timetables are terrible to manage 10:29:13 <reldred> And at this point I'm too afraid to ask how 10:29:14 <reldred> :P 10:30:52 <reldred> I mean I remember when waypoints were first added to ttdpatch and before that we made single tile train stations with the go-via order but for some reason it escaped me I could do the same with road vehicles. 10:31:25 <reldred> Just chalk it up to dumb bitch disease I guess. 10:36:15 *** Arveen2 has quit IRC 10:36:41 *** Arveen2 has joined #openttd 10:42:31 *** ntsbmvnk has quit IRC 10:42:41 <Eddi|zuHause> we also now have "no loading and no unloading" orders, which is like go-via, but the train still stops (and can be timetabled to wait) 10:42:43 *** ntsbmvnk has joined #openttd 10:43:08 <reldred> Oh neat 10:43:21 <reldred> And there you said it again, timetables XD 10:43:35 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. 10:43:43 <Eddi|zuHause> timetables are great. except the management 10:44:02 <reldred> Yeah, I think I need to make an effort to sit down and learn it before I do my next big pax route. 10:44:14 <Eddi|zuHause> you can get much denser well-moving traffic if you have a properly set up timetable 10:44:31 <reldred> Yup, that's what my last few maps desperately needed 10:45:00 <reldred> I need to start a new game anyway, left this one on fast forward too long and now it's the 50's. 10:45:13 <Eddi|zuHause> like, i had transrapid routes from A-B and A-C, with a merge halfway down the line 10:45:29 <Eddi|zuHause> with timetables, you can make them interleave properly, without slowing down 10:45:35 <reldred> Nice 10:45:37 <Eddi|zuHause> (so-called "evil mode") 10:46:03 <reldred> Yeah I'm on nightshift at work babysitting progress bars 10:46:08 <nakki> hah 10:46:17 <reldred> and yeah, experimenting with a few things with road vehicles 10:46:33 <reldred> so putting it on FF to see what would happen, would it jam up over time, etc. 10:46:39 <Eddi|zuHause> road vehicles are good for your first steps with timetables 10:47:08 <nakki> i could never figure out timetables 10:47:12 <nakki> even though i kinda wanted to 10:47:15 <nakki> for spacing out buses and such 10:47:19 <Eddi|zuHause> what usually happens with RVs is that they bunch up, with proper timetables they stay separated equally 10:49:10 <Eddi|zuHause> basic rules i use to set up RV timetables: 1) let the first vehicle run empty, without being blocked as best as possible, 2) increase the wait time at the end stations, possibly reduce it at middle stations, 3) ensure vehicles can overtake at the end stations 10:52:10 <peter1138> My thing with timetables is I seem to expect vehicles to be able to make up time, despite the schedule being set up for the minimum time already possible. I know it's wrong :p 11:12:18 *** tycoondemon has quit IRC 11:12:33 *** tycoondemon has joined #openttd 11:21:24 <Eddi|zuHause> that's one of the things missing, set up time for 80% of max speed, and only speed up to 100% if late 11:21:35 <Eddi|zuHause> the other thing missing is synchronizing two timetables 11:24:20 *** quiznilo has joined #openttd 11:26:17 *** quiznilo has left #openttd 11:38:28 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 11:49:35 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 11:50:55 *** buggeas40d[m] has quit IRC 11:50:57 *** freu[m] has quit IRC 11:50:59 *** buggeas40d[m] has joined #openttd 11:51:06 *** freu[m] has joined #openttd 11:51:59 *** gandi[m] has quit IRC 11:52:07 *** gandi[m] has joined #openttd 11:53:03 *** grag[m] has quit IRC 11:53:09 *** grag[m] has joined #openttd 11:53:59 *** iarp[m] has quit IRC 11:54:05 *** iarp[m] has joined #openttd 11:54:07 *** ist5shreawf[m] has quit IRC 11:54:12 *** ist5shreawf[m] has joined #openttd 11:55:11 *** josef[m] has quit IRC 11:55:18 *** josef[m] has joined #openttd 11:56:54 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 11:57:21 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 11:57:28 *** labs[m] has quit IRC 11:57:32 *** labs[m] has joined #openttd 11:58:12 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 11:59:27 *** lapav[m] has quit IRC 11:59:32 *** lapav[m] has joined #openttd 12:00:28 *** natmac[m] has quit IRC 12:00:33 *** natmac[m] has joined #openttd 12:02:39 *** ookfof[m] has quit IRC 12:02:48 *** ookfof[m] has joined #openttd 12:13:19 *** yoltid[m] has quit IRC 12:13:29 *** yoltid[m] has joined #openttd 12:47:25 *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd 13:00:40 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 13:04:46 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 13:05:05 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 13:09:41 *** WWacko1976-work has quit IRC 13:13:03 *** Meiki has quit IRC 13:13:08 *** Meiki has joined #openttd 13:13:55 *** jact[m] has quit IRC 13:14:00 *** jact[m] has joined #openttd 13:31:32 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 13:33:41 *** WWacko1976-work has joined #openttd 13:43:50 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 14:04:02 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 14:10:01 <andythenorth> well 14:10:10 <andythenorth> lunch? 14:16:57 <peter1138> Bit late. 14:17:00 <peter1138> Afternoon tea? 14:19:38 <andythenorth> fair 14:22:11 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 14:34:56 <LordAro> second breakfast 14:38:11 <peter1138> Snacky McSnackFace. 14:43:00 <reldred> I had a 2nd dinner. Cheese kransky since my work shift didn't end til 10pm (it started at 11am) 14:43:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think what i just ate would pass as a "snack" 14:45:22 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 14:55:03 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 15:25:46 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 15:55:00 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 16:04:45 *** Flygon has quit IRC 16:11:39 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 16:34:03 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 17:01:02 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 17:07:53 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 17:11:09 <andythenorth> o/ 17:15:19 <nielsm> andythenorth: for the mac framerate issue, can you try editing video/cocoa/event.mm and change the GetTick() function to be similar to GetPerformanceTimer() from framerate_gui.cpp, except time_point_cast<milliseconds> 17:15:38 <nielsm> and you also need to add #include <chrono> 17:15:45 <andythenorth> likely I can later yes 17:15:54 <andythenorth> have to make kids' dinner, then do some chores :) 17:16:01 <nielsm> sure 17:16:21 <andythenorth> I lost interest yesterday due to silly comments :P 17:16:22 <nielsm> return (uint32)time_point_cast<milliseconds>(high_resolution_clock::now()).time_since_epoch().count(); 17:16:53 <LordAro> nielsm: thisisfine.jpg 17:17:32 <nielsm> truncation is okay as long as you don't wait more than 49 days between calls 17:17:55 <nielsm> since you just need to be able to take differences between monotonic unsigned values 17:19:24 <LordAro> hahaha 17:21:30 <LordAro> @calc 1/(49*24*60*60) 17:21:30 <DorpsGek> LordAro: 2.36205593348e-07 17:21:46 <LordAro> so as long as you have more than ^ fps, you should be fine 17:21:51 <Eddi|zuHause> 49 days is such a typical windows overflow 17:22:12 <nielsm> yeah it's a famous bug that was fixed in one of the windows nt 4 service packs 17:22:19 <nielsm> system freezes after 49 days of uptime 17:22:45 <nielsm> I guess the 9x versions may also have been affected 17:28:24 <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: it's a bug that keeps reappearing all over the place 17:28:57 <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: like there was an airplane that had to rebooted every 49 days to avoid some problems with unhandled overflow 17:30:03 <nielsm> I think that was a boeing 787 17:35:51 <nielsm> and airlines did not want to reboot the aircraft since they have to run them all day and night for max profit and the startup sequence takes too long time 17:43:51 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 17:44:26 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:44:27 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 17:53:28 *** Progman has joined #openttd 18:10:36 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 18:25:39 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 18:25:51 *** Firzen has joined #openttd 18:31:22 <Firzen> Somehow my friend can't join my local server anymore. It worked last time (some months ago) with the old version (1.7). Now we're using 1.9.1. Anything changed since then? I forwarded the port TCP and UDP and we have no firewalls running... 18:33:29 <nielsm> nothing major should have changed 18:33:52 <nielsm> are you connecting via ip address or waiting for the server to show up in the server browser automatically? 18:34:32 <nielsm> and I assume by "local server" you mean over a LAN, not over internet 18:34:55 <nielsm> make sure Advertised is set to Yes when starting the server 18:34:59 <Firzen> No, via internet, but the server runs on my computer. 18:35:14 <Firzen> is advertised needed even when he adds it via IP? 18:35:20 <nielsm> then it's not 18:35:33 <nielsm> advertised is for making it auto-discoverable on a LAN 18:35:59 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 18:36:24 <Firzen> Yeah, I thought os. 18:36:31 <Firzen> It always worked like this as well. 18:36:37 <Wolf01> o/ 18:36:41 <Wolf01> I survived! 18:45:49 <Eddi|zuHause> you survived what, legoland? 18:45:59 <Wolf01> Yes 18:46:43 <Wolf01> We walked about 56km in 3 days, with a lot of bags full of lego 18:52:20 *** Firzen has quit IRC 19:03:53 *** ektor has joined #openttd 19:25:20 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 19:27:02 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 19:28:20 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 19:38:34 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 19:39:01 <andythenorth> yo 19:39:20 <Wolf01> oy 19:39:21 <andythenorth> nielsm: so what eh? Test this framerate thing? 19:39:40 <andythenorth> I set configure to some high debug level, that slows things down? 19:40:03 <nielsm> no just run normally with that change 19:40:19 <nielsm> see if it can ffwd correctly 19:40:28 <andythenorth> I need to reset the debug level 19:40:29 * andythenorth wiki 19:41:45 <andythenorth> debug=0 19:41:46 <andythenorth> ? 19:41:53 <andythenorth> google is finding nothing useful for instructions 19:43:22 <nielsm> --disable-debug should be all you need to ,/configure if you want to make a non-debug build 19:43:34 <nielsm> or maybe --enable-debug=0 19:43:45 <nielsm> (I'd try "disable" first) 19:43:46 <andythenorth> the latter I think 19:43:52 <andythenorth> disable is unknown 19:45:40 <andythenorth> so replace "return tim.tv_usec / 1000 + tim.tv_sec * 1000;" in GetTick with the line above? 19:45:57 <nielsm> yes 19:46:01 <nielsm> and add #include <chrono> 19:46:24 <nielsm> also you need "using namespace std::chrono;" before that line I wrote 19:46:28 <andythenorth> do I need to keep or delete "struct timeval tim;" ? 19:46:34 <andythenorth> and "gettimeofday(&tim, NULL);" 19:46:43 <nielsm> delete those 19:46:56 <nielsm> replace the contents of the function :) 19:47:18 <andythenorth> ok let's see 19:47:38 * andythenorth needs more CPU cores 19:48:09 <andythenorth> I have pegged out all 8 :P 19:48:51 <andythenorth> 28 Xeon cores anyone? :P 19:49:21 <andythenorth> nielsm: ok compiled :) 19:49:56 <andythenorth> now what? 19:50:03 <nielsm> run the game and look at the framerate 19:50:09 <nielsm> see if ffwd does something 19:50:40 <andythenorth> would a video be more useful than words? 19:51:17 <nielsm> I'm not sure if it's necessary 19:52:15 <andythenorth> ffwd kicks the game loop and video rate both up to around 50fps 19:52:23 <andythenorth> baseline is about 28fps 19:52:30 <nielsm> that's not great 19:52:34 <andythenorth> speed factor is hovering around 1.9x 19:52:42 <andythenorth> can't remember what it used to be on previous OS 19:52:43 <nielsm> what resolution and scaling are you running? 19:53:27 <nielsm> try setting scaling to 1x for text and ui, and resolution to 1024x768 windowed, see if that makes things better 19:54:15 <nielsm> also what kind of times are you getting for Drawing and Video Output 19:56:50 <andythenorth> video output is around 0.00ms 19:57:09 <andythenorth> rendering is about 0.26ms 19:57:23 <andythenorth> oh it's gone up to 0.4ms when I closed a news message, weird 19:57:49 <nielsm> but still poor fps? 19:58:04 <andythenorth> ^^ those values are quite constant ffwd / not ffwd btw 19:58:08 <andythenorth> I will now change scaling 19:58:26 <nielsm> if your drawing and rendering times are that low then scaling/res should not matter 19:59:23 <andythenorth> I am testing a few things 19:59:40 <andythenorth> I've just removed 7 AIs from the game, to avoid possible AI distortion 20:00:38 <andythenorth> ok I'll try combos of UI and font scale now 20:00:49 <andythenorth> both 1x, viewport in corner of the map 20:00:54 <nielsm> if the fps is still unreasonable with that then I have another code change to attempt 20:01:57 <andythenorth> ok, both 1x, ffwd, game speed factor is bouncing between 17 and 22x, ~500fps 20:02:05 *** gelignite has quit IRC 20:02:11 <andythenorth> peaking around 750fps 20:02:22 <nielsm> okay so it can run fast then 20:02:41 <nielsm> how is normal non-ffwd fps? 20:02:53 <nielsm> does it lock near 33.3 fps? 20:03:02 <andythenorth> I'll check in a minute. 2x UI zoom, 1x font zoom is getting similar results 20:03:14 <andythenorth> oh no wait, this is now 2x on both 20:03:20 * andythenorth confused by settings ;P 20:04:19 <andythenorth> I don't understand this behaviour at all 20:04:33 <andythenorth> the frame rate is sometimes pegged to ~80fps 20:04:46 <andythenorth> until a news message opens, then it jumps to ~600fps 20:04:56 <andythenorth> the news message might be coincidental 20:05:32 <nielsm> the news message might cover some landscape that needs less complex drawing then 20:06:11 <andythenorth> it's all just sea tiles or black 20:06:23 <nielsm> hm odd 20:06:36 <andythenorth> the news message might be misleading 20:06:38 <andythenorth> dunno 20:06:58 <andythenorth> sometimes framerate is stuck for several seconds before ffwd kicks in 20:07:00 <andythenorth> no AI running 20:07:06 <andythenorth> no vehicles 20:07:16 <andythenorth> oh there is GS 20:07:21 <andythenorth> I'll remove it 20:08:47 *** ektor has quit IRC 20:08:48 <andythenorth> on normal it's locking around 33-34fps 20:08:58 <nielsm> great 20:09:15 <andythenorth> ouch my laptop is now red hot :D 20:09:18 <nielsm> what if you go back to your usual settings? 20:09:20 *** Eddi|zuHause2 has joined #openttd 20:09:35 <andythenorth> this is on 2x/2x which is usual 20:09:45 <nielsm> and also window size usual? 20:09:56 <andythenorth> yes 20:09:59 <nielsm> nice 20:10:02 <andythenorth> ok so I changed back to 1x/1x 20:10:11 <andythenorth> the same lag until a news message opened 20:10:14 <andythenorth> for 5-6s 20:10:55 <nielsm> and btw are you getting the poor performance in the official 1.9.1 release that others have reported? 20:11:49 <andythenorth> ok and again, after changing back to 2x/2x 20:12:04 <andythenorth> a full 60s at ~80fps, then a news message appeared and fps rapidly increased 20:13:23 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC 20:13:43 <nielsm> the most important is that it's capable of running at 100+ fps in ffwd 20:13:47 <andythenorth> ok 1.9.1 20:13:53 <andythenorth> I wouldn't describe it as poor 20:14:04 <andythenorth> on new 2048x2048 map, with no AI or GS 20:14:20 <andythenorth> it's pushing 400-500fps on FFWD 20:14:21 <nielsm> it should lock at about 33 fps in normal on an empty game 20:14:38 <andythenorth> yes, it's performing about the same as the self-compiled binary 20:14:43 <nielsm> hm 20:14:49 <nielsm> so you aren't getting the performance issue there then 20:14:58 <andythenorth> noticeably, as soon as I have vehicles etc perfomance dips 20:15:05 <andythenorth> ffwd no longer has any effect at some point 20:15:15 <andythenorth> I haven't tested that rigorously though 20:15:30 <nielsm> even in a "normal" "simple" game? with just a few hundred vehicles 20:15:38 <nielsm> (and no newgrf) 20:15:52 <andythenorth> I don't have a quick repro 20:16:08 <nielsm> the issue others are reporting is getting like 10-15 fps on the title game 20:16:10 <andythenorth> all my recent games have AI and GS running, and included patches / PRs :P 20:16:20 <andythenorth> I don't get 10-15fps 20:16:24 * andythenorth looks for the ticket 20:16:38 <andythenorth> I do lose all the recent ffwd speedups 20:17:25 <andythenorth> we're looking at this? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/7247#issuecomment-505035209 20:18:21 <nielsm> yes that second-to-last post 20:18:31 <nielsm> and also the thing discussed here: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=85063&start=20 20:18:37 <nielsm> (same issue) 20:19:32 <andythenorth> oof 20:19:58 <andythenorth> let's take the map out of the corner and see 20:21:01 <andythenorth> ok if I go to an area of the map with more stuff, including animated FIRS industries 20:21:08 <andythenorth> rendering goes up to about 1ms 20:21:58 <andythenorth> (obviously) if I turn on 'full animation' that dumps the frame rate 20:21:59 <nielsm> remember the total budget for each frame is 30 ms for game loop + rendering + output 20:22:05 <andythenorth> but that should be known issue by now no? 20:22:20 <nielsm> yeah and that should also be measurable in the frame times 20:23:47 <andythenorth> if I find a really toxic combination of industry and sea, I can get it down to about 17fps 20:23:55 <nielsm> the issue we're looking for/trying to repro is: The overall framerate is very low on an empty game/the title game, despite all the individual component times shown in the framerate window being very low and not adding up to the total frame time implied by the framerate. 20:24:36 <andythenorth> ok so let's say with full animation on, I have about 19fps average on 'normal' speed 20:24:39 <nielsm> with "the component times not adding up to the implied total frame time" being the core of the issue 20:24:47 <andythenorth> but rendering is only 0.9ms 20:24:55 <andythenorth> world ticks is 1.7ms 20:25:02 <andythenorth> viewports is 0.48ms 20:25:10 <andythenorth> game loop total is 1.74ms 20:25:14 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 20:25:28 <andythenorth> everything else is ~0 20:25:39 <nielsm> game loop total + drawing total + video output = expected frame time 20:25:53 <andythenorth> but this 19fps is trivially solved by turning off full animation 20:25:55 <nielsm> 1000 / fps = actual frame time (in ms) 20:25:56 <andythenorth> and has been for years 20:26:25 <andythenorth> I kind of wonder if 'full animation' should just be removed 20:26:50 <Eddi|zuHause> the setting or the feature? 20:27:48 <andythenorth> either 20:27:59 <andythenorth> the setting should be 'off' by default 20:28:03 <andythenorth> and maybe moved to cfg 20:28:07 <Eddi|zuHause> no 20:28:31 <andythenorth> it's a bit weird shipping broken by default 20:28:37 <Eddi|zuHause> at best, the feature should be rewritten to use shaders. 20:28:54 <nielsm> it's pallette animation, right? 20:29:06 <andythenorth> yes 20:29:08 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 20:29:50 <nielsm> how about adding a third setting to it "auto" that disables it when 32 bpp blitter is required 20:30:10 <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't sound right 20:30:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean we have 32bpp_anim for a reason 20:30:28 <nielsm> and then fix the video drivers so they can render an 8 bpp surface from the blitter to a 32 bpp surface from the OS 20:30:54 <nielsm> and then allow 8 bpp blitter to be used when an 8bpp baseset is used 20:31:01 <andythenorth> it's interesting how much FIRS industries destroy FFWD 20:31:01 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 20:31:05 <andythenorth> maybe I should remove them 20:31:17 <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: i think the problem is osx specific, not 32bpp specific 20:31:39 <andythenorth> each industry knocks off about 10fps in crude tests 20:31:40 <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: if 32bpp were the problem, i think we would have heard from more people 20:32:01 <nielsm> so why is the animation so slow on macos? 20:32:04 <nielsm> that doesn't make sense 20:32:06 <andythenorth> I have heard various explanations 20:32:12 <nielsm> if the blitter itself is fast enough 20:32:19 <andythenorth> the 3 most plausible are: 20:32:23 <nielsm> and video output from the blitter to the os surface is fast enough 20:32:37 <andythenorth> - about 6 years ago graphics card vendors dropped native palette animation in silicon / drivers 20:32:57 <andythenorth> - modern motherboards lack the bandwidth to move textures from CPU to video 20:32:59 <andythenorth> - Apple 20:33:08 <andythenorth> I have NFI if any of those are true 20:33:23 <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: i have no useful input to that question 20:33:32 <andythenorth> FTR, Apple tends to get adequate performance out of crap GPUs for both 2D and 3D 20:33:50 <andythenorth> because they ship limited SKUs and tightly bind drivers / OS APIs 20:34:00 <andythenorth> 'adequate', not 'good' :P 20:34:04 <nielsm> this is no more video bandwidth heavy than playing back HD movies 20:34:56 <nielsm> if the blitter can produce the frames fast enough then they should run at full speed 20:37:34 <nielsm> andythenorth: but most importantly, when you turn on "full animation", does it impact the frame times in either drawing or in video output? 20:39:28 <andythenorth> on average, adds between 0.03ms and 0.2ms, depending on which part of map 20:39:42 <andythenorth> video output remains 0.00ms 20:39:54 <andythenorth> or 0.01ms 20:40:12 <andythenorth> I am googling about palette animation 20:40:18 <nielsm> does that account for the loss of total framerate? 20:40:30 <andythenorth> not if I've understand the maths correctly :P 20:40:44 <andythenorth> it's dropping 10-12fps 20:40:57 <nielsm> okay 20:41:39 <nielsm> so while the sum of game loop + drawing + video output is still below 30 ms, the total framerate drops to below 32 fps? 20:41:39 <andythenorth> the only relevant google result so far is the tt-forums thread from 2009, where official Mac support ended for OpenTTD 20:42:27 <andythenorth> sum is about 2.5ms 20:42:41 <andythenorth> framerate is bouncing around 19-20fps, instead of 33-34fps 20:42:59 <nielsm> right, so there is something here that is not being measured 20:43:04 <nielsm> relating to conversion 20:43:13 <nielsm> which blitter are you using, 8bpp or 32bpp? 20:43:31 <andythenorth> LordAro: are the officially supported platforms still correct? o_O :) https://www.openttd.org/about.html 20:44:18 <andythenorth> nielsm: whatever is default, I assume it's 32bpp 20:44:24 <andythenorth> there's a console command I can check? 20:44:36 <LordAro> andythenorth: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 20:44:46 <LordAro> not entirely wrong, iirc 20:45:22 <andythenorth> I might just not get sucked into documentation :) 20:45:32 <andythenorth> it's always slightly not fun 20:46:06 <andythenorth> but the platforms here eh https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/README.md#30-supported-platforms 20:47:43 <andythenorth> nielsm: afaict from previous history, the default mac blitter is 32bpp 20:47:50 <andythenorth> since 2010 20:55:41 * andythenorth digging up https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6469 20:59:38 <andythenorth> setting blitter to 32bpp-sse2-anim makes no difference 21:01:49 <andythenorth> nielsm: it's very sensitive to window size 21:15:42 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 21:23:11 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:24:48 <andythenorth> also bedtime :) 21:29:03 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 21:37:40 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:47:02 *** Samu has quit IRC 21:50:29 *** Samu_ has joined #openttd 21:51:59 *** juzza1 has quit IRC 21:52:31 *** juzza1 has joined #openttd 22:01:08 *** nielsm has quit IRC 22:16:33 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:51:28 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 22:59:31 *** nielsm has quit IRC 23:07:27 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 23:07:27 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 23:09:03 *** rocky11384497 has joined #openttd 23:14:16 *** tokai has quit IRC