Log for #openttd on 5th November 2019:
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00:07:56  *** marijnvdwerf has quit IRC
00:09:35  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ZornsLemma commented on pull request #7664: Extended heightmap support
00:10:59  <LordAro> not directly, iirc
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08:08:55  <dihedral> Good morning
08:09:00  <dihedral> gents!
08:11:21  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7813: export map into picture
08:24:54  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7767: Large numbers of trains and signals cause low FPS
08:29:19  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7825: Fix #7783, #7816: SDL2: Fix various issues with keyboard input
08:32:24  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] nielsmh commented on pull request #111: Add: MSVC pdb to file description list
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08:56:15  <planetmaker> salut dihedral :)
08:56:48  <planetmaker> (and everyone else ofc, too :D )
09:01:54  <LordAro> o/
09:38:33  <andythenorth> yo
09:40:38  <dihedral> Hey planetmaker, how are you?
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10:47:28  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] BlackPlague666 commented on issue #7767: Large numbers of trains and signals cause low FPS
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12:54:26  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7767: Large numbers of trains and signals cause low FPS
13:07:22  * andythenorth is curious about lunch
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13:19:05  <peter1138> Is it lunch?
13:19:25  <peter1138> I'm in the process of consider what to have for dinner tonight.
13:19:30  <peter1138> (I'll be eating out)
13:21:43  <andythenorth>
13:23:10  <peter1138> Nice
13:27:34  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7376: More than max_no_competitors could be created in network games
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13:28:56  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7376: More than max_no_competitors could be created in network games
13:49:03  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on issue #7767: Large numbers of trains and signals cause low FPS
14:03:28  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 15458434 opened issue #7826: unidentified developer
14:04:15  <Samu> - I'm tempted to revert DAY_TICKS to 1, but TrueBrain doesn't like it
14:04:46  <Samu> because it has been fixed
14:15:07  <Samu> lol, unidentified developer... just set preferences to allow execution of those apps
14:15:46  <Samu> it's like windows on openttd
14:15:53  <Samu> run anyway solves it
14:20:31  <Samu> mac users are seriously... stupid
14:20:46  <Samu> oh well, i better shut up, reading that extra note is too cringeworthy
14:23:30  <andythenorth> I don't think mac users are more or less stupid than the other operating systes
14:23:35  <andythenorth> systems *
14:23:47  <andythenorth> I think the stupid levels out
14:29:34  <LordAro> aren't the actual windows releases signed?
14:29:46  <LordAro> rather than nightlies/stuff you compiled yourself
14:29:53  <LordAro> which avoids the "Run anyway" issue
14:31:14  <planetmaker> I'm tempted to answer like "will you donate costs of a developer account to OpenTTD?"
14:31:41  <planetmaker> but that is actually the wrong answer.
14:32:05  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #7826: unidentified developer
14:32:37  <LordAro> how's that?
14:32:41  <LordAro> also made the title better
14:34:05  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #7826: Mac OS binaries are unsigned
14:34:24  <planetmaker> that's good
14:34:58  <Samu> openttd is a virus because it lacks a signature
14:35:00  <planetmaker> The real problem really is getting the legal entity required for that action
14:35:09  <Samu> the false sense of security
14:35:15  <planetmaker> and we don't want it bound onto a personal account
14:35:37  <LordAro> Samu: of course, but in general every little helps
14:35:37  <planetmaker> you say it, samu :| But... people like false sense of security
14:35:45  <LordAro> it's exceedingly rare that you get "signed" viruses
14:35:55  <LordAro> especially for Apple devices
14:35:56  <planetmaker> it has happened
14:36:12  <LordAro> mostly they just rely on people to just click the "Run anyway" button ;)
14:38:27  <andythenorth> I've updated the ticket a bit more
14:38:44  <andythenorth> most real Mac malware does not rely on 'Run anyway'
14:38:50  <andythenorth> the common cases are
14:38:55  <andythenorth> - fake Flash installers
14:39:20  <andythenorth> - scamware like Mackeeper, i.e. genuine looking software, which may even be Apple authorised, but is malware
14:39:30  <Eddi|zuHause> <LordAro> it's exceedingly rare that you get "signed" viruses <-- i'm fairly sure those appeared about 3 seconds after they introduced signing
14:39:33  <andythenorth> - poisoned binaries of genuine apps, sometimes even signed
14:40:33  <andythenorth> and for the record, historically Gatekeeper is not a false sense of security, it's a plausible defense-in-depth against unwanted binaries being executed
14:40:49  <andythenorth> Apple may currently be destroying that via some odd choices
14:40:51  <planetmaker> <-- hiding malware by signing it :D
14:41:50  <andythenorth> that's still a theoretical vector
14:41:54  <andythenorth> this is afaik more common
14:42:30  <planetmaker> yes. works on all platforms, though :)
14:42:52  <planetmaker> sell security. Deliver spyware :)
14:43:22  <andythenorth> then phone people up, and say they have a virus
14:43:31  <andythenorth> I just got asked for 00 in BTC
14:43:39  <planetmaker> that's a bit
14:43:40  <andythenorth> apparently someone has video of me naked, due to malware
14:43:46  <andythenorth> and I shouldn't be telling anyone
14:43:57  <andythenorth> or they'll reveal it to my friends and family
14:43:58  <planetmaker> oh, I got those e-mails on info
14:44:07  <planetmaker> I wonder whom they meant :P
14:44:13  <andythenorth> they're quite funny, except when they're not :P
14:44:41  <planetmaker> the most cunning actually are those which use login + passwords from previous hacks, like on adobe
14:44:55  <planetmaker> telling you that they hacked the associated e-mail account to do the same shit
14:45:19  <planetmaker> good, if you are 100% sure to never have used the same passwords in your associated e-mail account :D
14:46:34  <planetmaker> of course the from-address forged to your own to make it more credible
14:46:58  <planetmaker> That I did read twice :)
14:48:43  <planetmaker> On-topic of developer account though: I think it's virtually impossible to register a dev account which is non-personal if you have no legal entity
14:48:51  <planetmaker> and best have a US-based one
14:49:46  <planetmaker>
14:49:59  <planetmaker> that is a lot to organize
14:51:56  <Samu> peter1138, can you take a look at #7822
14:52:02  <Samu> you're the cache expert
14:52:54  <planetmaker> andythenorth, amy -> may? :)
14:53:01  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker commented on issue #7826: Mac OS binaries are unsigned
14:54:29  <Samu> the underlying problem is not the cache itself, because the issue is also present on NPF.
14:56:03  <andythenorth> fixed amy
14:58:08  <Samu> the vehicle basically "re-enters the same tile" every tick, asking for pathfinder directions
14:58:32  <Samu> the cache doesn't handle vehicles moving into the same tile
14:58:53  <Samu> nor should it
14:58:59  <Samu> so, I'm unsure about my fix
15:09:30  <planetmaker> hm... maybe something similar can work for openttd... I shall try to unearth the document: #openttdcoop.association is:  Statutes:
15:10:01  <planetmaker> the assembly was held about 3 times... and then abandoned :D
15:12:45  <planetmaker> it was officially an "e.V" (registered club) according to Swiss law..
15:14:00  <Eddi|zuHause> poor amy
15:14:07  <Eddi|zuHause> no freedom for her
15:15:30  <andythenorth> I am waiting for a consensus before contacting any of the free software foundations
15:15:42  <andythenorth> I hate emailing and crap, so not doing all that, then getting shot down
15:15:50  <andythenorth> I'd rather be making newgrfs but eh :)
15:22:40  <planetmaker> making an association to which like "we" become members is not terribly hard. Making it such that it's a charity might prove interesting challange, but likely is feasible, too. But requires renewal. And indeed careful accounting etc
15:23:04  <SpComb> but if you enroll, then you can integrate with Siri, Apple Pay, and iCloud
15:23:33  <planetmaker> you want to continue playing? Donate now or your save option will be disabled :P
15:32:15  <dihedral> donate to server owner in order to join?
15:33:22  <dihedral> 1 eur per game + 5 eur for 1.000.000 <currency here>. loans are disabled
15:33:23  <dihedral> :-P
15:34:07  <planetmaker> is the text I found. I think similar thing can be done for OpenTTD itself
15:34:36  <planetmaker> looking at you, dihedral , you are a founding member there, too :P
15:34:44  <dihedral> i know :-)
15:34:47  <dihedral> and I was proud of it
15:35:04  <dihedral> and I'd do it again
15:35:09  <dihedral> ... with the right people
15:35:41  <planetmaker> yeah
15:43:24  <andythenorth> huzzah etc
15:45:20  <Samu> how much fps do you get here?
15:45:25  <Samu> what's your cpu
15:45:46  <Samu> i get 16 fps
15:46:15  <Samu> wanna know if ryzen is faster than intel
15:46:27  <Samu> in this particular savegame
15:46:52  <dihedral> and you will get good comparable data how?
15:47:13  <Samu> i'm on a fx-8150 :p
15:47:43  <dihedral> so you want to eye-ball any data you get and use your gut feeling
15:52:21  <SpComb> an opportunity to show off my overclocked i5-9600K that I upgraded to to get Factorio UPS back to playable levels?
15:52:36  <andythenorth> I should buy a new computer for OpenTTD
15:52:52  <andythenorth> 20fps on an empty map is not ideal
15:53:20  <Eddi|zuHause> PC master race!
15:53:29  <Samu> that savegame is exposing a bug that eats cpu
15:53:31  <Eddi|zuHause> throw out the mac, immediate upgrade
15:53:39  <Samu> i wanna know which cpu does better
15:53:42  <andythenorth> is it known whether Windows works?
15:54:02  <Eddi|zuHause> windows updates may brick your bios
15:54:14  <andythenorth> but I have an Apple device, so I'm used to that
15:54:16  <_dp_> its it normal that save bugs out after a while ?
15:54:22  <_dp_> fps capped at 34 btw :p
15:54:51  <Samu> you get 34 fps? man, my cpu is so old
15:55:08  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, single core speed hasn't increased in like 5 years
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15:55:41  <Samu> so instead of fps, tell me the average road vehicle ticks
15:55:46  <andythenorth> "mine is only 2.8Ghz though, there must be faster"
15:55:49  <planetmaker> nominal clock speed. Actually it did increase - slightly
15:56:05  <andythenorth> I think one of my upgrades actually got slower
15:56:28  <andythenorth>
15:56:34  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, processor speed is probably not your current limiting factor
15:58:08  <andythenorth> I know, but it's so much fun to talk about :P
15:58:19  <andythenorth> it has charts and stuff!
15:59:08  <andythenorth> the top single core score is 2000, and I have 1069
15:59:20  <andythenorth> so if I buy a new computer, I'll get 30fps?
15:59:41  <andythenorth> I currently get ~22fps, so 100% faster = 30fps, right?
15:59:43  <andythenorth> that's how it works
15:59:48  <planetmaker> 33 if you buy good enough :)
15:59:59  <planetmaker> @calc 1000/30
15:59:59  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 33.3333333333
16:01:28  <andythenorth> the puzzling thing is that currently I have managed to trick OpenTTD that I have upgraded my CPU
16:01:34  <andythenorth> it's back at 33-34fps
16:01:50  <planetmaker> zoom-in helps
16:02:03  <planetmaker> zoom-out has your fps drop
16:02:14  <andythenorth> zoom out how far? o_O
16:02:22  <_dp_> that save is not stable, it gets faster from time to time
16:02:33  <planetmaker> so as server-owner you should always save your savegame with zoom-in so that slower computers can join for longer
16:02:45  <planetmaker> when uploading saves to server
16:02:47  <andythenorth> eh, how is the save not stable?
16:02:58  <Samu> just when the vehicles are all stuck
16:02:59  <andythenorth> you mean OpenTTD frame rate arbitrarily changes?
16:03:51  * andythenorth will screen record video next time the fps shows arbitrary odd behaviour
16:04:21  <andythenorth> the performance is really bizarre
16:04:32  <andythenorth> and it's apparently independent of processes on my system
16:05:07  <andythenorth> like, right now I have 34fps, in power saving mode, with an antivirus scan of my entire HD running and pegging all of 1 core
16:05:15  <_dp_> you can check vehicles in the bottom corner, when they unstuck fps raises
16:05:25  <andythenorth> oh and I have full animation on
16:05:44  <andythenorth> other times, full animation off, system idle, plugged into mains (increases single core speed), 16fps
16:06:42  <Samu> I get 64.01 ms
16:07:11  <Samu> road vehicle ticks
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16:23:32  <Samu>
16:23:57  <Samu> left side
16:24:18  <Samu> right side is with the tentative fix applied
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17:46:31  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] glx22 commented on pull request #111: Add: MSVC pdb to file description list
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17:49:40  <milek7> Samu:
17:50:21  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro commented on pull request #111: Add: MSVC pdb to file description list
17:50:43  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] matthijskooijman commented on pull request #54: Fix #39: Add compatibility with >=pillow-7.0.0
17:51:05  <milek7> but actually I don't know what this traffic..jam? is meant to test ;P
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18:19:55  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison updated pull request #7825: Fix #7783, #7816: SDL2: Fix various issues with keyboard input
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18:33:13  <Samu> milek7, is that a ryzen cpu?
18:33:16  <Samu> which one
18:33:43  <milek7> AMD Ryzen 5 3600 6-Core Processor
18:33:56  <Samu> nice
18:34:07  <Samu> now I need an intel cpu benhchmarked
18:35:20  <Samu> some core i-something 6000 or higher series
18:35:33  <Samu> cus they're all the same architecture
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18:37:49  <Samu> @calc 20.75 / 64.32
18:37:49  <DorpsGek> Samu: 0.322605721393
18:38:19  <Samu> @calc 64.32 / 20.75
18:38:19  <DorpsGek> Samu: 3.09975903614
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19:24:46  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #111: Add: MSVC pdb to file description list
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20:22:35  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] glx22 commented on pull request #111: Add: MSVC pdb to file description list
20:22:35  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] glx22 reopened pull request #111: Add: MSVC pdb to file description list
20:23:18  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] glx22 updated pull request #111: Add: MSVC pdb to file description list
20:25:30  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #111:  Add: 'Developer Files' section on download pages
20:27:03  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] glx22 commented on pull request #111:  Add: 'Developer Files' section on download pages
20:27:46  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #111:  Add: 'Developer Files' section on download pages
20:28:02  <TrueBrain> nice work glx :)
20:28:21  <glx> was easy, once I managed to run jekyll locally :)
20:28:32  <TrueBrain> :D That was the point of using Jekyll ;)
20:28:48  <glx> I forgot the idea to use the VM, not enough RAM :)
20:29:31  <glx> Jekyll on windows needs extra stuff in the gemfile
20:29:31  <TrueBrain> awh, I see I missed another Dutch person :P
20:29:43  <TrueBrain> well .. I was asleep at that time, so what-ever :D
20:29:58  <TrueBrain> glx: I am not surprised, for some reason :P
20:31:16  <glx> oh I also needed to copy the ua-parser.js over the link
20:31:51  <glx> I tried using a symlink but ruby didn't liked
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20:34:30  <TrueBrain> in case marijnvdwerf drops by while I am not here: and
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20:34:38  <TrueBrain> and LordAro, it is glx that was part of OpenDUNE ;)
20:35:10  <glx> but you did the JIT decompiler
20:36:07  <TrueBrain> yeah, but Eddi|zuHause was confusing you with Alberth, something that is unacceptable :P
20:39:53  <Eddi|zuHause> huh? i did certainly not do that
20:43:40  <Xaroth> 00:30 <Eddi|zuHause> wasn't alberth involved with that?
20:43:59  <Eddi|zuHause> well, Alberth was certainly involved with the OpenDune project...
20:45:36  <TrueBrain> <- he was?
20:46:36  <TrueBrain> as that means he should link his email
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20:46:51  <Eddi|zuHause> "The OpenDUNE team (in alphabetical order):
20:46:53  <Eddi|zuHause>   Albert Hofkamp (Alberth)             - Refactoring Dude"
20:48:15  <TrueBrain> so slap him next time to link his email!
20:49:16  <Eddi|zuHause> @seen Alberth
20:49:16  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Alberth was last seen in #openttd 15 weeks, 0 days, 2 hours, 28 minutes, and 3 seconds ago: <Alberth> andy: I bisected the build-train bug back to d54b6ac09b6fe88c09f7886739fe9c05f16b8222  (feb 28th)
20:52:16  <andythenorth> Alberth has retired :)
20:52:31  <andythenorth> from ottd, dunno about odune
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22:09:12  <andythenorth> so bed
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22:17:26  <Samu> what plans do you have for my start_date related PRs?
22:19:35  <Samu> #7661 versus #7515 + #7486
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22:29:43  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] nielsmh commented on pull request #111:  Add: 'Developer Files' section on download pages
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