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Log for #openttd on 9th December 2019:
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02:11:56  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Steveycat closed issue #7858: Seperate server config files https://git.io/JeS8L
02:11:56  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Steveycat commented on issue #7858: Seperate server config files https://git.io/JeS8L
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07:02:22  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/nml] planetmaker merged pull request #67: Minor changes in regression Makefile and .gitignore https://git.io/Je1N2
07:04:46  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/nml] planetmaker merged pull request #72: Change: increase size of permanent storage to 256 https://git.io/JeScm
07:06:20  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/nml] planetmaker merged pull request #64: Fix: enable VT100 sequences on windows https://git.io/JeiCF
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07:21:51  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/nml] planetmaker commented on pull request #70: Binop cleanup https://git.io/JeSVa
07:26:02  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/nml] planetmaker merged pull request #73: Change: add ANIM_TRIGGER_APT_AIRPLANE_LANDS https://git.io/JeSC8
07:31:04  <andythenorth> o/
07:33:40  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/nml] planetmaker commented on pull request #35: Fix ottd_display_speed to reflect changes done in OpenTTD https://git.io/JeSwv
07:34:51  * andythenorth wonders about an nml release soon :)
07:41:31  <andythenorth> planetmaker: did you see frosch made this? https://wiki.openttd.org/NewGRF_Specification_Status
07:41:38  <andythenorth> it's quite a nice detective game :)
07:42:15  <planetmaker> yes, indeed :)
07:42:33  <planetmaker> hi also o/
07:43:14  <planetmaker> but I didn't yet see the latest update
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10:45:05  <LordAro> oh dear matrix
10:45:40  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro commented on pull request #35: Fix ottd_display_speed to reflect changes done in OpenTTD https://git.io/JeS6W
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12:00:54  <Flygon> LordAro: We clearly snorted the crushed Blue+Red Pill Dust again.
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13:16:10  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 updated pull request #66: Add: allow use of switches and random switches as procedures https://git.io/JePq0
13:17:18  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 updated pull request #71: Add: nmlc option to force regeneration of parser tables https://git.io/Jeyxo
13:34:43  <andythenorth> web assembly port for OpenTTD then? https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/12/06/webassembly_w3c_standard/
13:43:19  <peter1138> andythenorth, I have lunched!
13:43:24  <peter1138> It was... er... salad!
13:43:49  <peter1138> This time with M&S sweet potato salad, and artichokes in oil. Variety.
13:43:59  <planetmaker> There we have the salad... da haben wir den Salat :P
13:44:42  <planetmaker> https://de.pons.com/%C3%BCbersetzung/deutsch-englisch/Jetzt+haben+wir+den+Salat
13:46:49  * andythenorth lunching
14:03:46  <andythenorth> more lunch needed
14:15:36  <peter1138> I supplemented lunch with a mini Soreen.
14:18:40  * andythenorth reads reddit
14:23:42  * peter1138 reds readdit
14:30:46  <milek7_> andythenorth: there is emscripten/wasm port already
14:31:08  <andythenorth> oh emscripten is wasm? I didn't know that :)
14:31:20  <andythenorth> I thought the web openttd was running in a js runtime
14:31:33  <milek7_> it can compile to asm.js or wasm
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14:32:27  <andythenorth> it really does work quite milek7_
14:32:32  <andythenorth> quite well *
14:33:33  <andythenorth> oof
14:33:38  <milek7_> blitter performance is poor though
14:33:40  <andythenorth> the fps is higher on wasm than the mac native client
14:33:55  <milek7_> ;D
14:34:12  <andythenorth> that's lolz
14:35:11  <andythenorth> so when I download a newgrf in the wasm edition, where is that file going?
14:35:29  <andythenorth> is there a virtual filesystem in wasm?
15:26:02  <Corns[m]> Hi can I ask what's the sentiment behind rejecting patches like copy paste patch into the main client?
15:29:43  <planetmaker> you can ask :) The answer is about the same as it was before: there is trouble in actually having the patch do what it is supposed to do
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15:30:35  <planetmaker> things can fail between test and actual building due to local authorities. The ground might be differently-structured and the placement cannot be done entirely - and there is no way to actually undo the pasting
15:30:42  <planetmaker> even when it only half-succeeded
15:30:53  <planetmaker> so it will be a constant source of bug reports
15:32:17  <planetmaker> codewise it's currently only possible to check the execution of one single action in advance. c&p needs a whole sequence of that.
15:32:57  <nielsm> a lot of things would become possible if we had a way to checkpoint the entire world and roll back
15:33:20  <planetmaker> yep. But that basically means to have the entire map in memory twice
15:38:00  <Eddi|zuHause> it would be easier if the map was divided into chunks, like 16x16 areas
15:38:06  <andythenorth> how does roll back work in multiplayer?
15:38:12  <Eddi|zuHause> then you only have to duplicate the parts that will be affected
15:38:14  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: shard the map, endless worlds :P
15:39:08  <planetmaker> @Eddi|zuHause, learn from factorio? ;)
15:39:23  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i don't know what factorio does
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15:39:45  <planetmaker> for many purposes the world is divided into just that: chunks of certain size
15:39:55  <planetmaker> fixed... dunno... 40x40 or so
15:40:02  <planetmaker> or 32x32... .whatever
15:40:13  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: presumably they unload chunks that are far away/otherwise deemed "passive"?
15:40:22  <Eddi|zuHause> .. which is something we don't really want
15:40:34  <planetmaker> used for updating, for simplifying path finding... and they don't even have generated those which are not visible
15:40:59  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i'm pretty sure they've copied that from minecraft
15:41:03  <planetmaker> visible as in were never discovered. There's a fog-of-war
15:41:22  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, gtg
15:42:34  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: that's also a feature we don't really need. however for non-surface segments and stuff, having only the areas that the player actually ever built in stored would be possible
15:43:15  <planetmaker> and then you remove the one dam which will flood the whole map the player never touched :)
15:43:43  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i mean flexible bridges/tunnels
15:44:13  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the surface map would still be fully generated as it is now, only the storage will change
15:44:14  <nielsm> so, NoMapArray patch?
15:44:35  <Eddi|zuHause> we'd have to do away with Void-tiles, probably
15:44:48  <Eddi|zuHause> it would not be practical
15:45:55  <nielsm> if the map is stored in chunks you can emulate CoW paging
15:47:23  <planetmaker> impossible to google what game is meant with CoW... cow
15:47:26  <Eddi|zuHause> you'd have to add some intermediate steps to decode map coordinates anyway, so checking for map borders could be in there
15:47:59  <Eddi|zuHause> might potentially make things like flood-filling slower than currently
15:48:31  <planetmaker> that's not sth which happens often
15:49:02  <Eddi|zuHause> really gtg
15:49:24  <planetmaker> bye :)
15:50:22  <peter1138> Copy & paste patch... did anyone actually submit it as a PR? :p
15:54:32  <andythenorth> peter1138: I can't find a PR, issue, or imported flyspray issue for it
15:54:52  <andythenorth> there's probably several C+P patches gone to die in forums dev section, but eh
15:55:03  <andythenorth> also, is it still lunch?
15:59:10  <peter1138> If you're still eating lunch, yes.
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16:01:16  <andythenorth> so lunch runs from about 9.30am until about 4.45pm?
16:01:23  <andythenorth> then it's tea or dinner?
16:01:52  <peter1138> Pretty much.
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16:30:50  <asymptotically> hi friends. if i want a factory to produce goods, do i need to deliver livestock, grain, AND steel, or can i just deliver steel?
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16:34:03  <nielsm> asymptotically: just one of them is enough
16:34:33  <asymptotically> great. thank you :)
16:35:15  <nielsm> there are some NewGRF industry replacement sets that have industries which need all of the inputs to produce anything, if you want a more advanced game
16:40:45  <asymptotically> i'll have to look into that later. thanks again
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18:37:07  <andythenorth> yo
18:37:26  <andythenorth> nielsm how is your headspace?  Do you want to play the meta-game that frosch123 has made? :)
18:37:34  <andythenorth> https://wiki.openttd.org/NewGRF_Specification_Status
18:37:40  <andythenorth> it's like a detective puzzle :)
18:38:45  <nielsm> need some food first, at the very least
18:56:44  <glx> hmm more industry input/output in 1.9 ?
18:57:57  <andythenorth> ?
18:59:02  <frosch123> yes, it is that old. november 2018
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19:00:19  <andythenorth> time races by
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19:09:14  <Wolf01> Yeah, so fast when you need it, so slow when you wish it
19:10:42  <nielsm> and I never got my Winter Wonderland set properly off the ground for this december either
19:10:55  <nielsm> should have maybe tried to actually recruit someone to art
19:11:54  <andythenorth> tough gig :)
19:12:00  <andythenorth> there's always next year
19:12:50  <nielsm> actually I don't think anyone have released anything depending on the new industry action0 properties at all
19:12:52  <nielsm> ?
19:13:01  <andythenorth> I have unreleased FIRS
19:13:08  <andythenorth> it's available in the repo, but no binaries
19:13:54  <frosch123> someone was horsing all year
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19:14:55  <andythenorth> it was something like 1 train per day
19:16:14  <frosch123> yes, thought 50/50 wrt. add/delete
19:16:40  <andythenorth> I wasn't very successful at deleting Horse
19:16:53  <andythenorth> but...still time left to do that :)
19:19:32  <andythenorth> well https://uxmag.com/articles/when-theres-nothing-left-to-take-away
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19:24:37  <frosch123> glx: do you know how msvc handles multi-byte integral constants like 'ABCD'? cppreference says that msvc differs from the other compilers, but ottd looks like it relies on a specific behaviour
19:25:56  <frosch123> hmm, i could use godbolt
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19:28:40  <frosch123> ok, on godbolt all 3 major compilers agree
19:29:01  <frosch123> so we can continue to rely on implementation-defined behaviour :p
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19:31:53  <milek7_> andythenorth: yes, there's in-memory emulation of filesystem in emscripten
19:32:37  <milek7_> and it can be serialized to persistent browser indexeddb (currently script does it for save/ directory)
19:33:59  <andythenorth> that's really quite advanced eh :)
19:38:43  <milek7_> and it also provides tcp/udp over websockets
19:40:20  <frosch123> does that mean, when you start a server, you open a port on the webserver hosting the wasm stuff?
19:40:29  <frosch123> and can only one start a server at a time?
19:41:29  <milek7_> no, you cannot start a server
19:44:24  <milek7_> you need to run websocket bridge somewhere to bridge to normal server port
19:46:07  <frosch123> nice
19:46:20  <frosch123> i am sure though someone compiled a webbrowser into wasm
19:48:39  <andythenorth> turtles
19:48:40  <andythenorth> all
19:48:40  <andythenorth> the
19:48:41  <andythenorth> way
19:48:42  <andythenorth> down
19:49:08  <milek7_> https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/the-birth-and-death-of-javascript
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19:55:39  * andythenorth watching
19:55:53  <glx> frosch123: https://docs.microsoft.com/fr-fr/cpp/cpp/string-and-character-literals-cpp?view=vs-2019 "microsoft specific" section
19:56:56  <andythenorth> so FIRS compile in the browser?
19:56:57  <andythenorth> o_O
20:11:41  <Wolf01> Give them 2 years
20:12:16  <frosch123> andythenorth: that's the new devzone
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20:24:24  <andythenorth> oof
20:24:25  <andythenorth> “you can have two languages — the old language I did with the curly braces and the functions and the shift operators, and this new language which is a binary language, not meant for reading by humans or writing. But it can be generated by compilers and tools, and can be read by tools…”
20:24:26  <andythenorth> :D
20:24:40  <andythenorth> not nml, but js :P
20:24:42  <andythenorth> https://thenewstack.io/brendan-eich-on-creating-javascript-in-10-days-and-what-hed-do-differently-today/
20:26:51  <frosch123> btw. does gh show somewhere that someone requested your review for something?
20:27:12  <frosch123> i keep on running into PRs where lordaro requested review from me
20:27:24  <frosch123> but the notification probably got lost in all the other notification spam
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20:28:13  <nielsm> frosch123: https://0x0.st/zUBA.png
20:29:12  <frosch123> oi
20:30:21  <LordAro> frosch123: :>
20:38:44  <andythenorth> I never request reviews in ticketing systems, not sure of the etiquette :)
20:38:57  <andythenorth> we have a work rule about not assigning tickets to people without conversation
20:40:42  <frosch123> i wouldn't make a guess whether there was a conversation :p
20:51:17  * andythenorth digresses
20:51:25  <andythenorth> have we all bought electric cars yet?
20:52:03  <Wolf01> Yes
20:55:58  <andythenorth> how electric is it?
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21:26:50  * andythenorth must now draw wagons http://s3.amazonaws.com/lionel-initial-assets/Products/ProductNavigator/_ProductImages_Orig/6-31733_2148.jpg?v=2
21:27:37  <andythenorth> not animating unloading though https://img.fotocommunity.com/schlacke-1fe4c3f9-a905-465a-9152-cd493fffe61b.jpg?width=1000
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21:50:06  <greeter> hmm compiling openttd from source is not as easy as i remember it being lol
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22:09:35  <glx> but it's not that hard
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22:28:04  <greeter> no, i got it :-) it's running great
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23:42:49  <Eddi|zuHause> setting up compile environments is always a pain for me
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23:48:45  <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> well https://uxmag.com/articles/when-theres-nothing-left-to-take-away <-- well, today i learned "if it's not broken, it doesn't have enough features yet"
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