Log for #openttd on 8th January 2020:
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03:50:12  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] floodious opened issue #7920: Purchase land tool lacks by-area
03:53:49  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #7920: Purchase land tool lacks by-area
03:56:55  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] floodious commented on issue #7920: Purchase land tool lacks by-area
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04:04:11  <Pikka> hmmm
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04:31:50  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #7920: Purchase land tool lacks by-area
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07:13:07  <andythenorth> o/
07:20:40  <Pikka> o/
07:23:58  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] auge8472 commented on pull request #137: Fix version detection, top-left banner, and add deployment badges
07:24:04  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7920: Purchase land tool lacks by-area
07:34:46  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7745: Feature: setting for more flexible town spacing
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08:00:00  <andythenorth> what haps Pikka? :)
08:02:11  <Pikka> ummm it's hot!
08:02:24  <Pikka> also, longer trains for AI
08:02:46  <Pikka> tinkering around the edges rather than taking on building a new pathfinder :)
08:03:20  <Pikka> what haps yourward?
08:08:31  <andythenorth> 6850hp better than 8500hp
08:09:04  <Pikka> o/
08:09:09  <andythenorth> 95mph better than 96mph :P for freight (don't ask)
08:09:16  <andythenorth> considering adding this
08:09:44  <andythenorth> it's the last train that either (1) fills a gap (2) I just like it
08:09:54  <andythenorth> then I should FIRS v4 eh
08:11:08  <Pikka> just liking it's enough reason
08:11:30  <andythenorth> syup
08:11:32  <andythenorth> yups
08:12:33  <andythenorth> should I add backstory for engines?
08:12:43  <andythenorth> maybe we could display it in the game, in an extra window
08:12:58  <andythenorth> "this is based on a class 37, the ultimate engine"
08:13:09  <andythenorth> "this is another class 37, with new paint"
08:13:16  <Pikka> o/
08:13:35  <andythenorth> even realism
08:13:47  <andythenorth> "This 2000hp class 37 has a class 50 fuel pump"
08:14:00  <andythenorth> "Which is convenient for game progression"
08:14:24  <Pikka> well
08:14:34  <Pikka> you can fit a few text lines in the purchase list ;)
08:19:43  <andythenorth> that I haven't done that....suggests it's a BAD IDEA?
08:19:49  <andythenorth> o_O
08:20:56  <Pikka> well, I just added "traction type: steam, use for: heavy freight" etc
08:21:12  <andythenorth> I have 'Role: [something]'
08:21:21  <Pikka> since I don't append (electric) to the vehicle names and maybe I shouldn't assume players know what needs electrification :)
08:21:23  <Pikka> ya
08:21:23  <andythenorth> and electro-diesels get both power ratings
08:21:34  <andythenorth> ooh no name suffix? o_O
08:21:37  <andythenorth> hmm
08:24:36  * andythenorth BBLs
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08:56:45  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on issue #7920: Purchase land tool lacks by-area
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13:56:02  <Samu> Chance16(1, 2) is this 50%?
13:56:07  <Samu> let's test
13:58:40  <LordAro> Samu: you waste so much time by "testing" instead of reading and understanding the code you're running
13:59:28  <Samu> it does some math
13:59:46  <Samu> but yes, i dont understand how that means 50%
14:01:49  <LordAro> "This function returns true with (a/b) probability."
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14:01:57  <LordAro> reading the function's doc comment would be a good start
14:02:42  <Samu> 		number_of_falses	510	unsigned int
14:02:42  <Samu> 		number_of_trues	490	unsigned int
14:03:03  <Samu> out of 1000
14:03:29  <Samu> so, im gonna trust it
14:04:53  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] orudge opened pull request #138: Fix: New EUR bank details on donation page.
14:06:50  <Sacro> omfg
14:09:40  <Samu> now my own math:
14:10:12  <Samu> if there is more than 1 choice, always do a 50% gamble
14:10:37  <Samu> but would this mean equal chance for every choice available?
14:14:33  <Samu> so far i never found 3 choices
14:14:37  <Samu> only 1 or 2
14:14:43  <Samu> but i never know
14:19:36  <Samu> assert(choices <= 2); and never asserted on a 5000 ship game
14:23:04  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro approved pull request #138: Fix: New EUR bank details on donation page.
14:23:14  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro merged pull request #138: Fix: New EUR bank details on donation page.
14:23:23  <LordAro> guess we need a new website release then
14:23:50  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro approved pull request #137: Fix version detection, top-left banner, and add deployment badges
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14:24:40  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro merged pull request #137: Fix version detection, top-left banner, and add deployment badges
14:24:45  <andythenorth> Pikka: is it not bed time? :o
14:25:05  <Pikka> it is
14:25:13  <andythenorth> I often stay up past bed time
14:25:21  <andythenorth> grown up privileges :P
14:28:06  <andythenorth> what shall I call this Brighton Belle train?
14:28:08  <andythenorth> Simon again?
14:29:04  <Pikka> isn't it the pushman?
14:29:54  <andythenorth> I'm saving that for a rainy day
14:30:06  <andythenorth> Kenny
14:30:12  <andythenorth> Dave
14:30:16  <andythenorth> Bob
14:30:18  <andythenorth> Pie
14:30:41  <LordAro> TrueBrain: has DorpsGek_III been updated to newest revision? it's still not announcing tags... Did I do it wrong?
14:31:49  <andythenorth> Dreadnought
14:32:15  <Sacro> We need a smokey Joe
14:32:20  <andythenorth> Divedapper
14:32:49  <andythenorth> Sacro:
14:33:26  <peter1138> Hi
14:33:34  <peter1138> I seem to be unable to stop eating still :(
14:33:56  <andythenorth> oof
14:34:24  <Sacro> andythenorth: the best loco
14:34:36  <andythenorth> Error: not in Iron Horse
14:34:44  <andythenorth> new version, change everything?
14:34:46  <Sacro> I want more UK stuff
14:35:03  <Sacro> The glory ddays of steam, and locos
14:35:07  <Sacro> And then into MUs and stuff
14:35:34  <andythenorth> in newgrf, or Hornby? o_O
14:36:32  <Sacro> I would love more hornby, but space and cost
14:36:38  <Sacro> So... newgrf it is
14:37:00  <andythenorth> pikka can help
14:37:47  <Pikka> there's a UKRS3 somewhere
14:37:55  <Pikka> smokey joe might have to wait for the industry set
14:38:46  <andythenorth> maybe I bring back High Flyer
14:38:51  <andythenorth> think it was a name in Horse 1
14:38:56  <andythenorth> nice for that train
14:39:29  <Sacro> I quite like UKRS
14:39:34  <Sacro> I do also like the BROS stuff
14:43:07  <andythenorth> there's also RUKTS
14:43:14  <andythenorth> and some RUKTS addons or something
14:45:44  <Samu> magic! TrackBits next_bits = TrackToTrackBits(TrackdirToTrack(NextTrackdir(TrackToTrackdir(track))));
14:48:49  <andythenorth> Sacro: got some Horse also
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15:10:49  <Sacro> andythenorth: yeah, need more rukts stuff
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15:22:44  <Samu> ships still collide, it's hard to judge this patch
15:22:51  <Samu> i guess it's not trunk worthy
15:22:52  <Samu>  :+
15:25:39  <Samu> giving it a chance to pick a direction can turn out to be bad
15:26:02  <Samu> if a ship turns left and the opposite ship turns right, there's a perpendicular collision
15:26:41  <Samu> what it was is better, but still not perfect
15:27:43  <Samu> gonna give up on this
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17:45:57  <Samu> im bored
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17:51:13  <Samu> Assertion failed at line 112 of D:\OpenTTD\OpenTTD GitHub\OpenTTD\src\core\pool_type.hpp: index < this->first_unused
17:51:18  <Samu> what is this?
17:52:06  <nielsm> something trying to call Thing::Get(id) where the id is not a valid Thing
17:53:23  <Samu> is it caused by me? or hmm openttd?
17:53:56  <nielsm> well when did it happen?
17:54:13  <nielsm> during startup, while loading a game, during play?
17:54:19  <Samu> during play
17:54:19  <LordAro> it's known to happen with a few old savegames
17:54:37  <Samu> not a savegame, it's a newgame
17:54:40  <Samu> via console
17:54:50  <LordAro> not the same thing then
17:54:54  <nielsm> is it your own build of openttd?
17:54:55  <LordAro> still could be anything
17:55:07  <Samu> it's my build, but based on 4th january
17:55:16  <Samu> gonna investigate
17:55:17  <nielsm> try doing a full rebuild
17:55:29  <LordAro> complete stacktrace would be a good start
17:55:37  <nielsm> because I definitely got weird unexplainable bugs that went away after a full rebuild
17:55:48  <nielsm> because of weird VS2019 C++ linker
17:58:55  <Samu> i dont have a stacktrade thing
17:59:04  <Samu> but got the crash files
17:59:16  <nielsm> did it make the .dmp file?
17:59:22  <Samu> yes
17:59:33  <nielsm> open that one in visual studio
18:00:02  <nielsm> and it will launch the debugger with the minidump loaded
18:00:15  <nielsm> then you can examine the stack at the time of the crash
18:00:45  * LordAro trades nielsm one stack
18:02:02  <dekeract[m]> Hey guys, one question related to timetables (a very nice feature that I use regularly in CB games), I notice that it doesn't work properly if trains are released in the wrong order, it is because when you ctrl+start date, it arranges them according to their vehicle number, is there a way to correct this? Maybe remembering the time when they were last at the start station?
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18:07:55  <LordAro> dekeract[m]: sounds like you've run into an edgecase timetables aren't particularly set up to deal with
18:08:00  <LordAro> there are many such edgecases :)
18:08:08  <dekeract[m]> It's not really an edgecase
18:08:15  <dekeract[m]> As it is the case 99% of the time :)
18:09:14  <LordAro> for you, perhaps, but not necessarily anyone else ;)
18:09:18  <Eddi|zuHause> iirc it arranges them by the previous start time
18:09:21  <dekeract[m]> I've learned to work around it by taking care to let them out in the right order but I lose valuable time that I can spend building more railways
18:09:22  * LordAro has never understood timetables
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18:13:18  <Wolf01> I did, but they are a pita to set up in ottd
18:13:38  <Wolf01> And I stopped to use them after a while
18:16:10  <Eddi|zuHause> dekeract[m]: the trick is to let them overtake at the starting station
18:17:07  <dekeract[m]> I have  my workarounds
18:18:07  <dekeract[m]> Wolf01: they are very usefull when set-up correctly for CB, where you need consistent arrivals so  you don't get red months
18:19:47  <dekeract[m]> Maybe waiting for the train to arrive at the first station in the orders list before giving it a start date?
18:19:50  <Samu> what are the odds i'm getting a crash again soon?
18:20:03  <Samu> i dont have the pdb files
18:20:48  <dekeract[m]> I'm inexperienced at programming (only really learned c) so I'm asking whether this would be even possible to make
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18:36:06  <Samu> seems the crash is about AIs cloning vehicle orders, this part of the code was edited by me let me investigate
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18:43:55  <andythenorth> aren't timetables fixed in JGR?
18:44:35  <andythenorth>
18:45:32  <dekeract[m]> I'm using btpro's version of openttd
18:45:51  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
18:45:51  <DorpsGek_III>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:50:06  <andythenorth> hmm
18:50:13  <andythenorth> Horse....sleeper coaches? o_O
18:52:00  <Samu> alright, it's a bug in my code, nothing on openttd side, sorry :(
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19:02:13  <Wolf01> <andythenorth> aren't timetables fixed in JGR? <- yup, I tried them and seem a lot easier
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20:05:39  <_dp_> dekeract[m], it's much easier to make a transfer station for storing excess cargo than bother with timetables
20:05:51  <_dp_> can also advertise it to keep more cargo
20:06:09  <Samu> found another crash, wow i'm on a roll
20:06:46  <TrueBrain> LordAro: not updated yet;this weekend I hope while migrating to AWS
20:06:55  <TrueBrain> So it is not you :)
20:14:07  <LordAro> TrueBrain: i think you said before, but i wasn't sure :)
20:21:41  <andythenorth> shall I ask TrueBrain questions about cloud crap?
20:21:48  <andythenorth> :)
20:23:48  <LordAro> andythenorth: ask him about cumulonimbus
20:23:56  <andythenorth> cirrus!
20:26:30  <frosch123> i am sure the cloud water cycle involves admin tears
20:27:13  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7919: Lifetime profit
20:28:14  <frosch123> did anyone port ottd gui to qt yet?
20:29:03  <TrueBrain> How about OpenTTD on Stadia? :D
20:29:12  <TrueBrain> Controller support is all we need
20:29:26  <nielsm> would that let me run openttd on my 2004 nokie smartphone?
20:29:31  <nielsm> nokia*
20:29:53  <andythenorth> openttd in web assembly?
20:29:56  <andythenorth> oh we did that already
20:29:59  <Eddi|zuHause> was nokia still good in 2004?
20:30:27  <frosch123> nokia was fine till 2007
20:30:38  <andythenorth> nokia is back
20:30:41  <andythenorth> 8210 or something
20:31:48  <andythenorth>
20:32:09  <andythenorth> maybe I get one of those
20:32:16  <andythenorth> and dig out my tiny ipod for music
20:32:21  <andythenorth> and my digital camera
20:32:27  <andythenorth> and my palm pilot
20:32:31  <milek7_> software on these is horrible
20:32:34  <andythenorth> ha ha lies, I never had a palm pilot
20:33:25  <Eddi|zuHause> there was a thing where nokia failed to provide a smartphone, and then a thing where they wanted to make two that both went nowhere?
20:33:37  <andythenorth> then apple
20:33:52  <Eddi|zuHause> no,that was after apple...
20:36:09  <nielsm> I had first a smart-ish ericsson phone, then a somewht smarter nokia, and then jumped on the nokia lumia train
20:36:55  <nielsm> iirc I managed to install scummvm on the ericsson, it was not actually a very good experience
20:38:02  <nielsm> stiil have my last nokia-branded microsoft lumia phone here, still love the design of it
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20:38:58  <nielsm> but not using it, had to jump onto android some years ago
20:39:25  <nielsm> (to some extent because the windows 10 update never arrived to that last one)
20:39:40  <nielsm> upgrade*
20:44:07  <supermop_work> i had to move to android when my palm pre stopped being a thing
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20:50:43  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] auge8472 opened issue #139: Wrong link target of the link on the OpenTTD-lettering in the page header
20:57:09  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro commented on issue #139: Wrong link target of the link on the OpenTTD-lettering in the page header
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21:31:11  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7918: Fix 3c047b1: AIGroup.GetProfitLastYear could get values different than those displayed in gui
21:32:57  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7913: Codechange: [Linkgraph] Skip MCF source node Dijkstra when all demand satisfied
21:34:17  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7914: Town, station and industry directory window sorting performance improvements
21:36:57  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7919: Lifetime profit
21:38:35  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7919: Lifetime profit
21:40:03  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro requested changes for pull request #7914: Town, station and industry directory window sorting performance improvements
21:42:29  <supermop_work> someone is playing regulate on the office sonos
21:44:27  <andythenorth> good idea
21:44:30  <andythenorth> I'll play it too
21:44:33  <andythenorth> everyone play it
21:44:36  <andythenorth> private disco
21:47:38  <Samu> alignment of vehicle_sl.cpp is pretty messed up, there's no real alignment if you look at the whole file
21:47:55  <Samu> or if there is, the criteria is weird to me
21:48:03  <LordAro> Samu: wouldn't worry too much about it then
21:48:16  <andythenorth> shall I delete this train supermop_work? o_O
21:48:33  <supermop_work> i use it
21:48:38  <supermop_work> its a 91?
21:48:54  <andythenorth> no it's this chinese thing
21:49:09  <andythenorth> or this
21:49:17  <supermop_work> move to sino-horse roster?
21:49:40  <supermop_work> idk i like electric freight
21:49:48  <andythenorth> I kind of like it's looks
21:49:53  <supermop_work> i guess could just use the flanders storm forever
21:49:55  <andythenorth> but there's no UK equivalent of any kind
21:49:57  <andythenorth> yeah
21:49:57  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #7913: Codechange: [Linkgraph] Skip MCF source node Dijkstra when all demand satisfied
21:50:10  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7919: Lifetime profit
21:50:17  <supermop_work> flanders stormier?
21:50:24  <andythenorth> DB livery
21:50:28  <andythenorth> there's no reason to delete the other one, just trimming any fat
21:50:34  <andythenorth> it doesn't convince me currently
21:51:07  <andythenorth> Horse has a lot of 'same engine, repainted', I was trying to break the pattern :P
21:51:07  <andythenorth>
21:51:14  <andythenorth> but it just doesn't look right in my game
21:52:57  <nielsm> andythenorth: legend for the background colours please :)
21:53:03  <andythenorth> needed eh
21:53:04  <nielsm> it takes a little while to figure out
21:53:10  <andythenorth> I'll add it to todo
21:53:10  <Samu> I saw it being used to draw a sprite
21:53:15  <Samu> sec
21:53:39  <andythenorth> nielsm: that whole table is a bit oof
21:53:49  <andythenorth> eh, imagine if it could be in game :P
21:54:10  <andythenorth> supermop_work: played any horse around 2020?
21:55:05  <supermop_work> by accident
21:55:25  <andythenorth> I don't really like the Chimera (class 70)
21:55:36  <andythenorth> seems like Cheddar Valley (59/66) should stick around for end game
21:55:36  <supermop_work> when leaving unpaused while going out or sleeping
21:56:21  <Samu> the vehicle age matter to decide what sprite to display:
21:57:30  <andythenorth> do I dare throw away sprites? :P
21:57:34  <andythenorth> probably
22:02:14  <andythenorth> ha ha
22:02:31  <andythenorth> do I dare throw away all gen 6 freight engines and wagons? o_O
22:02:36  <andythenorth> and cap freight to 90mph
22:02:52  <supermop_work> i mean, what is the point of this exercise
22:03:16  <andythenorth> aesthetics
22:03:18  <andythenorth> purely
22:03:27  <supermop_work> british horse seems fine and fun, can probably just freeze it at this time
22:03:40  <andythenorth> it's fine
22:03:41  <andythenorth> and fun
22:03:50  <andythenorth> I've just never played past about 2000 before
22:03:59  <andythenorth> but I have a game that just goes on
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22:06:00  <andythenorth> oh it's pikka :)
22:06:10  <Pikka> tis!
22:06:50  <andythenorth> if I drop gen 6 Horse freight (keeping the pax)
22:06:58  <andythenorth> I can delete 60 wagons and 2 engines
22:07:29  <andythenorth> the entire progression of the wagons is 85mph > 95mph
22:07:41  <andythenorth> and a lot of sprites that look *very* similar to gen 5
22:08:13  <Pikka> that does seem a bit unneccessary
22:10:27  <andythenorth> OpenTTD should simulate the things that really matter to UK freight wagon operators
22:10:38  <andythenorth> like track access charge based on wear rates and track impact
22:10:55  <andythenorth> and wagon capacity-per length as shorter trains are favoured
22:11:03  <andythenorth> and braking distance
22:12:26  <Pikka> fun == realism!
22:12:46  <Pikka> can't be a bad feature if it's realistic ;)
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22:17:48  <andythenorth> ok maybe I don't delete 15% of the set tonight :D
22:19:31  <Samu> but it doesn't matter when to display the actual value:
22:21:28  <Samu> hard to follow the code on this
22:21:46  <andythenorth> eh I could increase capacity but not speed
22:24:44  <andythenorth> well that _might_ work
22:24:55  * andythenorth should sleep on it
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22:25:17  <Samu> GroupStatistics::UpdateProfits, GroupStatistics::VehicleReachedProfitAge and GroupStatistics::CountVehicle
22:25:59  <Samu> that's how stats.profit_last_year is updated for displaying the sprite
22:33:16  <Samu> can't fix what's stored in GroupStatistics
22:33:24  <Samu> because it does have a use
22:49:31  <Samu> oh, this was a change from 2011
22:49:35  <Samu>
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23:36:59  <glx> maybe have 2 cached values
23:40:01  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7918: Fix 3c047b1: AIGroup.GetProfitLastYear could get values different than those displayed in gui
23:40:18  <Samu> oops too late
23:40:31  <Samu> gotta go sleep
23:40:34  <Samu> tc
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23:42:06  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7918: Fix 3c047b1: AIGroup.GetProfitLastYear could get values different than those displayed in gui
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