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00:01:37 <TrueBrain> glx: why is the final 'git log' not returning anything? Any idea? 00:01:46 <glx> don't know 00:01:50 <glx> locally it works 00:02:16 <glx> + git log --oneline 'HEAD^..HEAD^2' 00:02:17 <glx> 9d6cb30 Codechange: [AzurePipelines] remove commit-checker 00:02:17 <glx> 3625ed7 Add: [Actions] commit-checker workflow 00:02:17 <glx> 6dfe5c8 Fix #7927: Incorrect resolution shown in "Huge screenshot" query window. (#7949) 00:02:34 <TrueBrain> commit-checker is not telling what it is checking, so I am curious if this is working now 00:02:35 <glx> yeah my master is not up to date while the PR is 00:02:43 <TrueBrain> ah :) 00:03:20 <glx> but it's weird I get the log when testing locally but not on github 00:03:46 <TrueBrain> especially because it does find a common parent 00:05:13 <TrueBrain> hmm .. can you add a wrong-commit-message commit in https://github.com/glx22/OpenTTD/pull/2/checks ? 00:05:28 <TrueBrain> allows us to check if it works, but also if the non-zero exit code is processed correctly :D 00:07:17 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7943: Move commit checker from Azure Pipelines to Github Actions https://git.io/JvTY7 00:07:51 <glx> invalid message and trailing space :) 00:07:59 <glx> let's see the result 00:08:50 <glx> ah this time log is correct 00:08:59 <glx> and check fails as expected 00:09:04 <TrueBrain> sweet 00:09:45 <TrueBrain> so remove the commit, and fix my OCD, and off we go :P 00:12:26 <glx> https://pastebin.com/39bCYC7T <-- better like that ? 00:12:33 <TrueBrain> <3 00:12:42 <TrueBrain> add a dot at the end to make it perfect :) 00:14:50 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7943: Move commit checker from Azure Pipelines to Github Actions https://git.io/JvTY7 00:16:29 <TrueBrain> lets find out how many things this breaks :D 00:16:58 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #7943: Move commit checker from Azure Pipelines to Github Actions https://git.io/Jvkgh 00:17:37 <glx> hmm maybe all opened PRs, like when I added a regression workflow for nml 00:21:59 <TrueBrain> well, I will see tomorrow the disaster this created :D But nice work glx, this will improve PRs by a lot :D Now some slick annotation, and maybe people will know how to fix it when it breaks :) 00:22:17 <TrueBrain> cool things you can do now, is for example comment in the pull-request (just once for example) if the commit message is wrong 00:22:23 <TrueBrain> I see that now with some repositories 00:22:42 <TrueBrain> something like: "We noticed the commit checker failed; this is because we follow a strict commit message policy. Read more about this on ...." 00:23:05 <TrueBrain> that really helps new people to understand what happened, but also allows us to tell how to fix it :) 00:23:12 <glx> at least no the error will be easier to read too 00:23:15 <glx> *now 00:23:18 <TrueBrain> yup 00:23:24 <TrueBrain> anyway, something to think about to improve on this :) 00:23:38 <TrueBrain> (not something I will be building anytime soon myself, to be clear :P) 00:23:43 <TrueBrain> for now: good night :) 00:28:13 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 00:41:53 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 01:01:12 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 01:09:25 *** Progman has quit IRC 01:50:27 *** crazystacy2 has quit IRC 01:54:23 *** Pikka has joined #openttd 03:07:20 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 03:08:33 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 03:11:52 *** debdog has quit IRC 03:32:44 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 03:58:58 *** glx has quit IRC 04:21:07 *** heffer has quit IRC 04:21:32 *** heffer has joined #openttd 04:41:28 *** heffer has quit IRC 04:45:04 *** heffer has joined #openttd 04:45:28 *** heffer has quit IRC 04:48:01 *** heffer has joined #openttd 05:35:58 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 06:36:32 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 06:36:45 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 07:56:55 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:57:27 <andythenorth> moin 08:01:41 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd 08:02:36 *** ToBeFree has joined #openttd 08:06:36 <Pikka> boin 08:10:10 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 08:16:36 <andythenorth> moar I think 08:19:05 <peter1138> Yes 08:22:09 <peter1138> Oh. I was going to have a Lemsip. So I made a coffee by mistake. Oops. 08:22:10 <Pikka> moar which though? 08:22:21 <peter1138> More merge conflicts. 08:22:41 <andythenorth> Pikka moar covered hoppers of course 08:22:56 <Pikka> oh of course 08:22:56 <andythenorth> what else could I be talking about? o_O 08:23:10 <andythenorth> so are you doing 4x NARS? 08:23:14 <peter1138> Ok, I finally got my road bike back and... I'm not riding this morning. It's -2 and I slipped and landed on my hip yesterday anyway. 08:23:23 <andythenorth> ouch 08:24:46 <Pikka> I'm doing a bridge, and then maybe a tree 08:25:04 <Pikka> also ouch 08:25:14 <andythenorth> procedural tree generator? o_o 08:26:52 <Pikka> had a couple of goes 08:26:56 <Pikka> just going to draw them I think :P 08:43:00 <peter1138> Hmm, booted my old server up to redo my backup, but... can't find it on the network :/ 08:43:52 <peter1138> Also my OpenTTD server seems quite popular, possibly because it auto-restarts at ... 2050 I think. 08:45:33 <peter1138> Starts in 1980. 08:45:42 <peter1138> Wow, the auto-restart is abrupt, isn't it? 08:50:27 <LordAro> peter1138: aw 08:50:41 * LordAro also not riding this morning, also because negative temperature 08:51:26 <LordAro> andythenorth: needs procedural tree placement generator :) 08:51:50 <andythenorth> :P 08:51:52 <andythenorth> newgrftrees 08:52:39 <peter1138> LordAro, I'm just lamenting... I used to be an all-weather rider... 08:53:01 <peter1138> 66% water on my server. Yay for ships! 08:53:08 <LordAro> i think there are reasonable limits to this 08:53:17 <LordAro> i did pouring rain last week 08:53:22 <peter1138> I'd go out even if it was pissing down, yes. 08:53:31 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 08:53:33 <andythenorth> yeah but ice 08:54:17 *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC 08:54:56 <peter1138> Hmm, at least starting in 1980 you get hovercraft :D 08:56:20 <peter1138> "ERROR: The server is restarting...?Please wait..." 08:56:24 <peter1138> That doesn't seem quite right. 08:56:34 <peter1138> It's... not an error, and that question mark... 08:57:01 <Wolf01> "The task failed succesfully" 08:57:29 <LordAro> failing to render a newline, i think 08:57:48 <LordAro> src/lang/english.txt:STR_NETWORK_MESSAGE_SERVER_REBOOT :{WHITE}The server is restarting...{}Please wait... 09:01:00 <andythenorth> so daylength then? 09:02:59 <LordAro> peter1138: is your server public? 09:03:52 <peter1138> Yes, it's called "[CLC] OpenTTD" for various reasons. 09:05:04 <andythenorth> coal mail trains 09:05:05 <andythenorth> nice 09:05:11 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7943: Move commit checker from Azure Pipelines to Github Actions https://git.io/JvkS2 09:05:24 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7943: Move commit checker from Azure Pipelines to Github Actions https://git.io/JvTY7 09:06:39 <peter1138> Heh, I forgot we have existing station coverage highlight now. 09:07:27 <peter1138> And town coverage. 09:07:31 *** Progman has joined #openttd 09:16:06 <andythenorth> I forgot how low primary output is in vanilla :P 09:16:10 <peter1138> Yes, rivers, Pikka. You could just bulldoze it like most people :D 09:16:22 <peter1138> andythenorth, well it might pick up :p 09:16:49 <Pikka> fine 09:17:11 <Pikka> I'll draw riverbanks and canals, I guess they're not going anywhere :P 09:17:38 <andythenorth> all my money gone on ships :) 09:17:48 <andythenorth> Pikka: draw half-tile diagonals :P 09:18:02 <peter1138> Bigger loan, andythenorth? 09:18:05 <andythenorth> ugly rivers are ugly, someone will fix 09:18:07 <andythenorth> :P 09:18:13 <andythenorth> maxed my loan 09:18:18 <peter1138> Ah 09:18:26 <Pikka> bridge time 09:18:29 <Pikka> signal time 09:18:31 <Pikka> tree time 09:18:37 <andythenorth> see if it makes any money while I go to Tesco 09:19:05 <peter1138> Hmm, one red link. 09:19:31 <peter1138> Will Tesco be open yet? 09:19:47 <peter1138> Should I go myself just to get out of the house? 09:19:57 <andythenorth> I have to take kids to football etc :P 09:20:08 <peter1138> Oh... kids... 09:20:32 <peter1138> It's a bit silly that these passenger ships don't at least take mail. 09:20:42 <peter1138> (As well) 09:21:06 <peter1138> Mind you, that's also silly of me, that probably doesn't happen anyway. 09:21:24 <peter1138> Easier to load a lorry onto a ferry, heh. 09:22:18 <andythenorth> multi-cargo ships :P 09:22:23 <andythenorth> imagine 09:22:35 <peter1138> Hmm, industry density is a bit high, perhaps due to the low amount of land-mass. 09:22:39 <peter1138> Yeah. 09:24:15 <andythenorth> is it original train physics? o_O 09:24:25 * andythenorth will adjust play style accordingly :P 09:24:45 <andythenorth> hills are very very bad eh 09:24:52 <peter1138> I... Um... Is it? 09:24:53 <peter1138> Hmm. 09:25:08 <peter1138> Oh, it is. How odd! 09:25:24 <LordAro> i've been noticing a few default settings that could probably be changed... 09:25:57 <peter1138> If only the settings could be changed, via gui, from a client with the rcon password. 09:26:18 <andythenorth> TTD mode, sandbox mode, scenario mode (realism) 09:26:23 <andythenorth> model train mode :P 09:27:40 <peter1138> Settings presets, eh? 09:28:06 <andythenorth> sandbox mode just turns magic bulldozer on :P 09:31:21 <LordAro> my ships are complaining that they are lost, despite happily heading towards the next destination 09:31:27 <peter1138> Oh god changing settings on a server that's running is... not fun. 09:31:32 <peter1138> LordAro, I noticed that. 09:31:37 <LordAro> could be something to do with the double lock? 09:31:51 <peter1138> lock or dock? 09:32:01 <peter1138> Oh, lock. 09:32:04 <LordAro> lock 09:32:38 <peter1138> I wonder, did we undo the path length limit after the caching was implemented... 09:32:53 <LordAro> pretty sure 09:34:08 <andythenorth> original gameplay so different to Horse / FIRS madness :P 09:34:11 <peter1138> Hmm, yeah we did. 09:34:13 <andythenorth> not worse, kind of charming 09:34:29 <peter1138> I've never played Horse / FIRS properly, so I don't know. 09:34:43 <peter1138> I did play with Pikka's industries a lot though. 09:34:52 <peter1138> I have to admit, I never really found FIRS actually fun. 09:34:57 <andythenorth> it's not for everyone 09:35:37 <andythenorth> and I don't like the Extreme thing 09:36:48 <LordAro> is the new vehicle window supposed to not appear when you clone a vehicle? 09:37:09 <andythenorth> if it has shared orders, shouldn't appear iirc 09:37:49 <peter1138> Okay, "realistic" on. 09:38:08 <LordAro> andythenorth: that's what i'm doing, but why? 09:38:29 <andythenorth> spams loads of windows? 09:38:33 <andythenorth> that have no purpose? 09:39:04 * andythenorth downgrading trains :D 09:39:16 <LordAro> only if you start them all at once, which i'm not doing 09:41:08 <andythenorth> I might be talking at cross purposes 09:41:31 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: someone thought you don't need the new train window for anything, since all you would ever do was start/stop and you could do that in the depot 09:42:04 <Eddi|zuHause> also, spamming the clone button tended to fill your screen, and then close the oldest window first, which is the one you're cloning from 09:42:17 <andythenorth> it only applies if ctrl-cloning 09:42:27 <andythenorth> otherwise the vehicle window is created 09:42:31 <Eddi|zuHause> there should be a setting to turn it back on 09:42:39 <andythenorth> maybe, but why? 09:42:50 <andythenorth> all it does is fill your screen so you can't see anything? o_O 09:42:54 <andythenorth> seems user hostile to me 09:43:01 <andythenorth> setting though 09:43:06 <Eddi|zuHause> some people are masochists 09:43:21 <andythenorth> some people have 2x 30" screens 09:43:44 * andythenorth delivers goods 09:43:50 <andythenorth> goods grows towns, right? o_O 09:44:49 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: sure, and lightning hits oak trees more often...?!? 09:45:05 <andythenorth> yup 09:45:51 <LordAro> andythenorth: is that you in red? 09:45:54 <andythenorth> yup 09:45:58 <LordAro> get out of my area :p 09:46:15 <andythenorth> there I did a bridge 09:46:23 <LordAro> hmmpf 09:46:35 <andythenorth> I am doing all forests 09:47:24 <peter1138> never_expire_vehicles = true 09:47:25 <peter1138> Hmm :/ 09:47:50 <peter1138> Although it says "off" in the gui. 09:48:03 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a saying in german that in case of a thunderstorm, you should avoid oaks and look for beeches. 09:48:12 <Eddi|zuHause> someone studied that once, and found that the bark of oak trees is more likely to splinter if it gets hit by a lightning 09:48:39 <Eddi|zuHause> so it's a perception bias 09:48:50 <andythenorth> who winning? 09:49:06 <Eddi|zuHause> the only winning move is not to play. 09:49:17 <andythenorth> you win then Eddi|zuHause 09:50:02 <peter1138> 1 out of 6 connections are... IPv6. 09:50:37 <Eddi|zuHause> ipv6 is only like 20 years old by now, why would you assume it had caught on yet? 09:56:11 <andythenorth> shops etc 10:02:50 <LordAro> hmm, can't build a bridge over a lock? 10:04:07 <andythenorth> Pikka: you using railway/foamer names like 'polybulk'? 10:04:14 <andythenorth> or more generic? 10:05:09 <Pikka> mostly generic 10:05:14 <Pikka> although I've got a speedlink van 10:05:50 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: i think i've seen a patch for that 10:05:54 * andythenorth running out of variations of 'covered hopper' ;P 10:06:05 <andythenorth> that also don't overlap with 'hopper' :P 10:06:07 <Eddi|zuHause> but it might have been a samu patch, so who knows... 10:07:24 <Pikka> guess you need to go foamy if you've got MOAR 10:07:40 <andythenorth> possibly yes 10:08:07 <andythenorth> I already used up 'mineral', 'rock', 'ore' for mining cargo wagons 10:08:17 <andythenorth> and I have silo / pressure / powder wagons 10:08:21 <andythenorth> the problems of MOAR 10:09:57 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure what the problem is 10:10:33 <andythenorth> names 10:10:38 <andythenorth> also shops 10:10:39 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 10:11:09 <Eddi|zuHause> why would anyone go shopping on a sunday? 10:12:34 *** crazystacy2 has joined #openttd 10:25:47 <LordAro> https://i.imgur.com/iFkJ0zs.png i don't know how to fix this 10:28:50 <Pikka> it's pretty easy 10:29:08 <Pikka> you say "peter1138, please turn cargodist off" :P 10:29:15 <LordAro> :D 10:37:17 <Eddi|zuHause> moar trains 10:37:39 <Eddi|zuHause> in my experience, once a link is overloaded, there are knockon effects that make it worse 10:48:56 <Eddi|zuHause> also, increasing the distance effect on demand tends to help with overcrowded passenger networks 10:49:47 *** crazystacy2 has quit IRC 10:50:49 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth https://git.io/JvfWw 10:51:05 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 10:52:06 <TrueBrain> time to deploy something in production which I haven't tried in development yet .. as .. YOLO! :P 10:52:37 <nielsm> as long as it can be rolled back 10:52:50 <TrueBrain> mmmaaayyyybbbeeeee :P 10:57:29 <peter1138> LordAro, wasn't there some discussion somewhere about reducing the amount of passengers that towns produce. Something about quadratics and double double double or something. 10:57:56 <FLHerne> LordAro: Sort by Via->Destination->Source, it's much easier to see the problems then 10:59:16 <peter1138> Probably could do with some kind of destination rating, so when culling passengers (hah) the badly serviced ones bugger off first. 10:59:43 *** Samu has joined #openttd 10:59:49 <Samu> hi 10:59:56 <LordAro> peter1138: there's a setting somewhere, i think 11:00:21 <LordAro> FLHerne: shows a lot of passengers via 2 towns in particular, but i'm still not sure what i'm supposed to be doing about it 11:00:45 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: there was a PR, i don't know if it was included 11:01:07 <FLHerne> LordAro: Build more service on that route, or a new route that goes more directly to their ultimate destination? 11:01:39 <FLHerne> Mesh-ish networks tend to work a lot better than spine-and-branches 11:03:39 <peter1138> It's the bus-feeders that suffer. 11:03:40 <SpComb> yeah, sparser direct connections with better exchange connections offload a lot of traffic 11:03:50 <FLHerne> Trams! 11:04:18 <SpComb> like try and build your local lines from smaller towns so that they interchange with multiple larger cities and mainline services, not just one 11:04:45 <SpComb> and have multiple different mainline connections between different cities with different routings 11:04:47 <peter1138> Larger maps with sparser towns... 11:05:07 <SpComb> that too, the default towns are way too densely placed 11:05:15 <SpComb> for cargodist 11:05:16 <FLHerne> SpComb: The risk there is that you accidentally make the 'local' line the most-direct route between large places 11:05:33 <FLHerne> Usually avoidable though 11:06:16 <SpComb> I haven't noticed problems with that in cargodist, it seems to work pretty well for those kinds of topologies 11:06:25 <Eddi|zuHause> so, apparently the town cargo PR (#6965) was merged right after 1.9 11:06:28 <Samu> LordAro, what kind of question is that 11:06:52 <SpComb> not sure, does cargodist actually take travel time into account? 11:06:55 <peter1138> My lines are point-to-point, but then I'm doing ships, so that's pretty normal. 11:06:59 <Samu> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7890#discussion_r368255314 - because otherwise it's disabled 11:07:06 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, hmm, does it have settings I should tweak? 11:07:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it does 11:07:30 <Samu> i'll take screenshots 11:07:31 <peter1138> "Town cargo generation: Linear" 11:08:01 <peter1138> And a scale factor. 11:08:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't looked at the end part that got merged, but the original said something about a "high/medium/low" setting 11:08:42 <Eddi|zuHause> and some "PeterN" dude talked about keeping "original" as default 11:09:00 <peter1138> No, the default is linear. 11:09:05 <peter1138> Eh, wanker. 11:09:24 <peter1138> I'm going to pretend I didn't want to but only because I can't be bothered to look. 11:09:35 <peter1138> Anyway, it's already on linear, not original, and still 11:10:03 <nielsm> imagine if it was on original, the numbers would be even worse! 11:10:12 <peter1138> Quite. 11:10:12 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7890: Fix #6452: Reset only editable and visible settings from GUI https://git.io/JvkQK 11:10:32 <peter1138> town_cargo_scale_factor is in my config but doesn't exist. Oh dear. 11:10:43 <Samu> sorry if my answer is a bit blunt 11:10:44 <Eddi|zuHause> in my cargodest game, my stations had like 10k passengers waiting 11:11:05 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: probably remnant from older version of the PR 11:11:42 <peter1138> Likely. 11:11:58 <Pikka> the linear/exponential thing is fine, but surely beyond that, cargo production is down to newgrf? 11:12:57 <peter1138> Maybe 'decay' for passengers needs to be quicker. 11:13:00 <nielsm> if newgrf houses have the production callback then that is used instead, and not affected by the setting 11:13:07 <nielsm> iirc 11:13:12 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: depends. on whether the NewGRF makes a production callback, or just relies on the inhabitants<->production relation 11:13:14 <peter1138> It's all very well coal sitting on a platform, it doesn't care. 11:14:43 <SpComb> ugh, my original town cargo generation factor was such a hack, that #6965 discussion reads so much better... shame it took such a long time to come up with that and fix it :) 11:16:42 <peter1138> So these gameplay complaints... other than cdist, and the amount of water, most of these settings are default :p 11:17:11 <Pikka> maybe some defaults should be changed 11:17:28 <Pikka> :P 11:18:52 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 11:19:13 <andythenorth_> lordaro cdist is solved by turning off town growth 11:19:48 <andythenorth_> and setting distance effect to about 15%, depending on map town density 11:20:55 <peter1138> "solved" 11:21:06 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest14069 11:21:06 <SpComb> what's the default distance effecr, ref 11:21:08 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 11:21:11 <peter1138> Wolf01 solves it by playing No Man's Sky. 11:21:13 <andythenorth_> well it works and requires no further code 11:21:22 <andythenorth_> old lady, fly, spider 11:21:32 <peter1138> Turning off town growth really isn't an option. 11:21:45 <peter1138> Distance effect likely is fine. 11:21:54 <andythenorth_> I tended to agree until I tried it :p 11:22:34 <peter1138> Does turning off town growth stop towns growing? 11:22:53 <andythenorth_> somewhat 11:23:00 <andythenorth_> i turned it to slow 11:23:13 <andythenorth_> and prevented towns building roads 11:23:26 <peter1138> I have cargo flow legend on for my company but I see dots for other players' stations. 11:23:32 *** Guest14069 has quit IRC 11:23:38 <peter1138> Slow doesn't seem to be off? 11:23:45 <andythenorth_> means town growth keeps pace roughly with vehicle speed/capacity growth 11:24:13 <andythenorth_> if I want a bigger town I then build roads 11:24:24 <SpComb> at least TTD doesn't have private vehicles blocking traffic inside towns 11:24:29 <andythenorth_> “sandbox mode” :p 11:24:48 <Wolf01> Aaaaand I found my pc being disconnected from the modem for no reason... I had to unplug the eth cable and reconnect it 11:24:52 <SpComb> let me talk about my TpF2 metropolis with 10k residents, and how impossible it is to build tram networks in that city 11:25:22 <SpComb> the roads in nearby towns are blocked because the queue of cars trying to drive into the metropolis extends all the way along the regional roads to those other towns 11:29:44 <TrueBrain> https://docs.openttd.org/ai-api/ <- w00p! (you have no idea how much effort it took to get that you no longer have to add 'index.html' to it) 11:30:00 <TrueBrain> depending on your edge location, it might still be broken btw; takes a bit of time to propagate :) 11:32:19 <andythenorth_> :) 11:36:20 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 11:38:23 <nielsm> how insane does this look? https://0x0.st/zFYs.txt 11:40:46 <LordAro> nielsm: istr michi_cc having something similar... 11:40:55 <nielsm> I don't know? 11:42:06 <michi_cc> nielsm: https://github.com/michicc/OpenTTD/tree/newmap 11:42:07 <nielsm> https://github.com/michicc/OpenTTD/commits/newmap probably this 11:42:09 <nielsm> :D 11:42:30 <michi_cc> It's not a block based-map though, but more like Chris Sawyer did RCT and Lomo. 11:42:36 <Wolf01> Wtf is my phone updating? Wasn't windows mobile out of support? 11:42:46 <michi_cc> A bit stale, but I am working on a proper rebase for RoadTypes. 11:43:51 <nielsm> I think block based has two advantages: 1) memory cache will put nearby tiles closer in memory, 2) allowing copy-on-write transactional map 11:44:29 <michi_cc> And of course the real final step is still missing because it needs some more ground work first: Reorganizing the map bits to make the Tile struct smaller. 11:45:35 <michi_cc> nielsm: Well, my change and a block-based map don't really conflict in any way. My branch is about having more than one Tile struct for each TileIndex, which doesn't make assumptions whether TileIndex'es itself are continous in memory. 11:46:28 <michi_cc> The assumption is only that all Tile's for a TileIndex are contiguous. 11:47:35 <nielsm> "SmallVector" 11:47:37 <nielsm> I see it's old 11:49:37 <nielsm> but is the idea that you have a "base land" tile on which you can stack road, rail, buildings, etc, in a mostly unlimited fashion? 11:50:14 <nielsm> (I assume there's just one base land, no support for caves) 11:56:44 <nielsm> from the type of changes it looks like it'd be more like remake than rebase tho 11:58:26 *** crazystacy has joined #openttd 11:58:32 *** Pikka has quit IRC 12:00:04 *** crazystacy is now known as tenhi 12:12:52 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 12:20:19 <andythenorth> we have a discord? :o 12:20:37 <peter1138> Who? 12:21:41 <andythenorth> your server 12:23:02 <peter1138> Ah, well that's a different 'we'. 12:23:19 <peter1138> Hmm, red on my cargoflow legend. 12:25:05 <andythenorth> build moar 12:25:20 <peter1138> And also other people's oilrig stuff on my cargoflow legend. 12:25:21 <LordAro> isn't that precisely the opposite of what you should do? 12:25:28 <LordAro> i had a lot of red on mine 12:25:31 <LordAro> i mostly ignored it 12:25:36 <LordAro> peter1138: sorry 12:25:58 <peter1138> Mmm, I wonder if that should be toggggggleable. 12:26:28 <LordAro> peter1138: per company? it is 12:26:43 <peter1138> It's shows neutral stuff. 12:26:52 <LordAro> oh right 12:27:01 <LordAro> i wouldn't have noticed that :p 12:27:12 <peter1138> And "per company" is also ignored for stations. 12:27:25 <andythenorth> mmm 12:27:30 <andythenorth> forests get chopped 12:27:37 <peter1138> Yes? 12:27:38 <andythenorth> I should do that in FIRS 12:27:41 <andythenorth> looks nice 12:27:42 <peter1138> Does it not? 12:27:45 <peter1138> o_O 12:27:56 <andythenorth> FIRS does not 12:28:23 <peter1138> How lax. 12:28:25 <andythenorth> it's climate sensitive trees and crap, so it's not trivial 12:28:31 <andythenorth> draw trees andythenorth 12:29:43 <peter1138> Oh. 12:31:30 <peter1138> I wonder if my old server is stuck on Press F1 to continue... 12:33:04 *** tokai has joined #openttd 12:33:04 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 12:33:30 <andythenorth> oof only Floss 47 available now 12:41:35 <peter1138> Any new hovercraft? 12:46:17 <andythenorth> hmm need towns to accept goods 12:46:24 <andythenorth> maybe we should be able to grow them 12:46:31 <andythenorth> how about if delivering goods grew the town? 12:47:03 *** Progman has quit IRC 12:48:21 <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> "solved" <-- a rough rule of thumb i've developed over the past years: if andy complains something is "broken", it's probably not. and if andy says something is "solved", it's probably not 12:49:04 *** glx has joined #openttd 12:49:04 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 12:49:55 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem with distance effect is that it's global, but needs to be high for passengers, and low for other cargo 12:51:12 <peter1138> Sounds solvable? 12:51:34 <andythenorth> JGR has cdist tuning per available cargo 12:51:52 <andythenorth> I have no opinion on whether it's good :P 12:51:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure it's technically solvable, but politically? 12:52:11 <andythenorth> JGR server game? o_O 12:52:27 <Eddi|zuHause> the amount of settings was a big discussion point in the development and merging process of cargodist 12:52:33 <Eddi|zuHause> ... which took like 5 years 12:53:14 <Eddi|zuHause> and i'm not a fan of "setting for each cargo individually" at all 12:53:51 <Eddi|zuHause> however, i do like the other approach, split "asymmetric" distribution into "with distance effect" and "without distance effect" 12:53:53 * andythenorth delivers goods to grow towns 12:54:34 <peter1138> Hmm, might buy a new keyboard. 12:54:47 <peter1138> My mechanical didn't survive the Christmas spillage. 12:54:53 <tenhi> lol 12:54:57 <andythenorth> have to keep the economy going 12:54:57 <tenhi> what did you spill? 12:55:04 <andythenorth> all this anti-consumerism is good 12:55:04 <peter1138> Just water. 12:55:07 <tenhi> oh 12:55:08 <andythenorth> but it's bad for the economy 12:55:12 <tenhi> mine is spillproof 12:55:31 <andythenorth> have you tested? 12:55:53 <tenhi> hmm. no. i think i spilled on one of my old ones 12:55:55 <Eddi|zuHause> last time i spilled something, i took it apart, and clean the inside electronics foil thing 12:55:57 <tenhi> (it's a thinkpad) 12:56:09 <tenhi> i once cleaned my old phone (pre-smartphone) with soap and water and killed it 12:56:12 <tenhi> shoulda taken out the battery first 12:56:39 <andythenorth> hmm can I save these iron ore mines? 12:56:43 <andythenorth> 18t / month right now 12:56:48 <tenhi> pour water into them 12:56:59 <tenhi> flush out the goblins 12:57:09 <Eddi|zuHause> water, love, green thumb? 12:59:04 *** tenhi is now known as rptr 13:00:07 <Eddi|zuHause> no, youtube, i don't want to listen to any christmas songs... 13:00:27 <rptr> spotify 13:00:33 <rptr> i can't believe openttders don't use spotify ;) 13:00:56 <rptr> i mean the original author is the original author of openttd 13:01:27 <Eddi|zuHause> ... i can't watch interesting videos on spotify 13:01:35 <rptr> do you at least use adblock 13:03:51 <peter1138> Gah, this car spins out too easily. 13:04:47 *** rptr has quit IRC 13:06:02 <peter1138> Oh. I just rolled it :p 13:07:47 <andythenorth> ouch my iron ore mine closed 13:09:02 <andythenorth> where did LordAro's company go? :P 13:10:56 <peter1138> O 13:22:29 *** rptr has joined #openttd 13:23:51 <andythenorth> well 13:23:53 <TrueBrain> did he go bankrupt already?! (no clue what you are talking about, but I wanted to pitch in) 13:24:04 <andythenorth> maybe he got bored 13:24:21 <andythenorth> right that's enough vanilla OpenTTD for me :P 13:24:25 <TrueBrain> hmm ... I need to make a deployment to AWS that will break all services for a bit of time, and I have no way to test if they will recover :P 13:24:33 <andythenorth> it's nice to play like it's 1996 13:24:49 <andythenorth> but only for a bit :P 13:37:54 <nielsm> ottd server as a docker container when? 13:38:28 <michi_cc> nielsm: The core map code is remarkably stable, I didn't have to fix much so far. I might re-do the road commits, as they contain quite a lot of indentation/formatting changes that will make messy diffs, even if the logic didn't really change that much. 13:56:49 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhbqc 13:57:12 <peter1138> andythenorth, is that just an excuse? 13:57:23 <andythenorth> did I start losing? 13:57:49 <glx> commit check is really fast now 13:57:52 <LordAro> andythenorth: oh no 13:58:14 <LordAro> does it autoclean companies if they're not "occupied" for a certain amount of time? 13:58:23 <LordAro> pikka's disappeared randomly as well 13:58:42 <peter1138> Possibly if no password is set. 13:58:58 <glx> there are 2 autoclean settings IIRC 13:59:11 <andythenorth> yeah mine had a password 13:59:21 <LordAro> bleh 14:00:01 <andythenorth> oof 14:00:19 <andythenorth> so ideally we need daylength eh 14:00:35 <peter1138> Do we? 14:00:50 <andythenorth> well 14:00:58 <andythenorth> it's solved by using date cheat regularly 14:01:02 <andythenorth> so no 14:01:20 <peter1138> "it" and "solved" 14:01:48 <rptr> day night cycle pls 14:02:42 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 14:02:54 *** Flygon has quit IRC 14:05:30 <andythenorth> OpenTTD 123.5% of CPU :P 14:05:57 <peter1138> Meh, episode 3 is kinda hard :/ 14:06:25 * andythenorth closes the train window 14:06:38 <andythenorth> normality restored 14:06:42 <andythenorth> 51% of CPU 14:06:54 <peter1138> o_O 14:08:24 <peter1138> So yesterday I ate far too many snacks. Today I probably already have. So shall I just say sod it and start drinking for the rest of the day? 14:08:36 <peter1138> It's too damn cold to do outside exercise stuff. 14:09:03 <andythenorth> do planks 14:10:39 <rptr> does anyone actually do those body exercises and stay fit 14:11:07 <rptr> for me only going to the gym works, cause i go there, stay for 60-90 min and get stuff done. if i was going to do planks, i'd do one, then i'd rest the 90 seconds before the next rep but get bored and do something else 14:11:26 <rptr> perhaps in a prison cell where there's literally nothing to do 14:11:33 <rptr> also i say drink peter1138 14:11:46 <rptr> if-- you tell me what i should eat/make 14:14:49 <peter1138> Meh, just ate salad, which was great. Followed by a double portion of crisps. Ooops. And a chewy nut bar. And some cheese on ryvita. And... I'm doomed. 14:15:02 <peter1138> And I just killed 3 arch-viles, so that's good. 14:15:26 <peter1138> A little bit of Back To Saturn X that I was stuck on :p 14:16:19 <rptr> isn't ryevita a cereal? 14:16:42 <rptr> a few yrs ago i lived abroad and i found... oh no. i mean weetabix. i saw weetabix for the first time. man that stuff is amazing, for some reason 14:16:51 <rptr> much better than plain oats and milk which is what i normally eat 14:18:08 <peter1138> Ryvita is a cracker. 14:18:29 <andythenorth> hmm 14:18:36 <andythenorth> 39 trains won't draw themselves :P 14:18:38 * andythenorth must pixles 14:19:08 <peter1138> The cheese was Gorgonzola Picante from Lidl... reduced to 69p, kinda wish I'd got more but then again I'd have to eat it. 14:19:25 <peter1138> One day I will run out of stuff to eat in my house. That will make things much easier 14:20:24 <rptr> oh man 14:20:37 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Phx01 commented on issue #7939: Feature Request: Moving/Relocating/Offsetting (Certain) Industries https://git.io/JvUr7 14:20:56 <rptr> i opened a brand new bag of shredded cheese ("tex mex", expiry 11 february) and it tasted like gorgonzola. oh i figured it must be spicy for tex mex... no it was just normal cheese that had molded 14:20:58 <rptr> :| 14:21:29 <rptr> i always get reduced stuff at lidl but here they are useless at seeing the "REDUCED !!!!" sticker. i paid full price so many times 14:21:42 <rptr> last time i was too embarrassed to ask for my 1.5 euros back for the kiddie yoghurts 14:21:44 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC 14:23:08 <peter1138> Heh 14:23:38 <peter1138> Sometimes. This was "30%" off, from 99p to 69p. But the original price was £1.69 or something I think. 14:28:05 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7939: Feature Request: Moving/Relocating/Offsetting (Certain) Industries https://git.io/JvUr7 14:29:16 <TrueBrain> glx: "Commit checker / Commit checker (pull_request) Successful in 18s" <- you got to love those times :) 14:31:20 <andythenorth> the best 14:32:25 <TrueBrain> so someone made a PR for AWS CDK to fix his use-case, completely destroying what I have build :D You got to love regressions ... 14:32:37 <TrueBrain> *wrote lengthy issue* :P 14:34:11 <nielsm> hm would it make sense to introduce a ScriptUserInterface class for GS just to hold a bunch of constants that don't feel like they belong in ScriptStoryPage ? 14:35:38 <nielsm> or add some stuff to ScriptWindow that is not generated? I wonder if that will work 14:37:20 <Samu> hi 14:41:44 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain opened pull request #145: Fix: links to documentation have changed https://git.io/Jvkbl 14:41:51 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: you had locations to change too you mentioned? ^^ 14:42:10 <andythenorth> https://wiki.openttd.org/Development 14:42:20 * andythenorth reads the issue 14:42:23 <TrueBrain> I am just giving you the poke I promised ;) 14:43:00 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/workflows] TrueBrain opened pull request #3: Fix: links no longer need to have 'index.html' at the end https://git.io/Jvkb4 14:43:17 <andythenorth> think it's fine, nothing seems to need changed 14:43:34 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro approved pull request #145: Fix: links to documentation have changed https://git.io/Jvkb0 14:43:47 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/workflows] LordAro approved pull request #3: Fix: links no longer need to have 'index.html' at the end https://git.io/Jvkbg 14:44:40 <LordAro> speaking of food, i need to do my shopping before the shops close 14:45:09 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/workflows] TrueBrain merged pull request #3: Fix: links no longer need to have 'index.html' at the end https://git.io/Jvkb4 14:45:20 <TrueBrain> run LordAro, run! 14:45:29 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7947: Fix #7945: Add cost of clearing the sloped tile when placing a dock https://git.io/Jvkbr 14:45:47 <LordAro> TrueBrain: still got 75 minutes 14:45:54 <LordAro> shop is only 5 minute walk away 14:46:05 <TrueBrain> I am not here to judge how you shop :) 14:46:33 <LordAro> good :p 14:48:53 <Samu> is this still big? I recreated feature 2 of #7937 into its own https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/compare/master...SamuXarick:permanent-rivers?expand=1 14:50:02 <peter1138> lol 14:50:15 <peter1138> Just pulled out a keyboard from the loft... and put a screen on the old server... 14:50:19 <peter1138> Yeah... Press F1 to continue. 14:50:44 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain merged pull request #145: Fix: links to documentation have changed https://git.io/Jvkbl 15:10:14 *** Borg has joined #openttd 15:15:07 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7937: Build on competitor canal https://git.io/JvUIQ 15:31:07 *** zvxb has joined #openttd 15:34:40 <Samu> while I was spying builds, i found a problem with script_goal.cpp 15:34:42 <Samu> https://dev.azure.com/openttd/OpenTTD/_build/results?buildId=5308&view=logs&j=d0d954b5-f111-5dc4-4d76-03b6c9d0cf7e&t=101c6acf-4827-537b-9277-7f12a78f89c7&l=490 15:35:27 <Samu> i didn't touch script_goal.cpp at all 15:42:08 <LordAro> Samu: known, it's a false positive warning 15:54:08 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd 15:59:25 <nielsm> stylish!! https://0x0.st/zFgR.png 16:05:06 <rptr> what's story book? 16:05:24 <nielsm> a way for game script to show information to the player 16:05:40 <rptr> you're making it? 16:05:42 <nielsm> and with this PR I'm working on also a way for it to interact with the player 16:06:01 <nielsm> the story book feature already exists, I'm working on adding clickable buttons as a new feature to it 16:06:37 <rptr> what would be an example? 16:06:39 <rptr> like in citybuilder 16:07:26 <nielsm> in citybuilder it could be using a button to select your destination city as an alternative to building HQ 16:08:07 <_dp_> as much as I like any gui for gs I've no idea what to do with those buttons xD 16:08:08 <nielsm> or maybe the citybuilder could award you for completing a goal, letting you pick one other city you want to get a rating boost in 16:08:44 <rptr> ok that's nice 16:08:51 <rptr> so it's basically letting you define GUIs in GS? 16:08:58 <rptr> can't you use the existing GUI? 16:09:04 <rptr> i mean, it looks like you "made your own" buttons? 16:09:58 <nielsm> GS can't do much with the GUI, it pretty much just has the goals list and the story book 16:09:59 * _dp_ actually wonders how many players ever read story book 16:10:20 <rptr> story book = that white book next to trophy button? 16:10:22 <nielsm> and newspapers 16:12:28 <_dp_> I've lost count to how many times I had to explain to player where company goals are 16:15:43 <rptr> lol 16:15:54 <nielsm> the documentation for doxygen is pretty bad imo 16:16:03 <nielsm> shame for it being a documentation tool 16:16:16 <rptr> lol 16:16:23 <rptr> shouldn't use it for that reaso 16:17:38 <TrueBrain> I need to provision the "docs.openttd.org" again; sadly, this means removing + creating, so it will be unavailable for a bit of time (~30 minutes). I hope everyone will survive :P 16:18:39 <peter1138> I think everyone will manage. 16:19:00 <peter1138> Can I just say... thank you for taking the time to do all this infrastructure work :D 16:19:01 <Borg> unless after provisioning. we will see 404.. 16:19:01 <Borg> ;) 16:19:24 <TrueBrain> peter1138: you can ;) :D 16:20:56 <TrueBrain> and tnx :) 16:24:04 <TrueBrain> Borg: well, it is CloudFront, so no promises ... that is one hell of a weird service 16:24:33 <nielsm> I wonder if this will render right... https://0x0.st/zFEK.txt 16:25:15 <TrueBrain> nielsm: why not just 2 variables? Why bitshift? 16:25:39 <nielsm> because of constraints of the existing design 16:26:29 <TrueBrain> during the initial development of the API, we tried to avoid these things, as users tend to not understand :D 16:28:27 <LordAro> agreed, better just to change the existing function (and provide compatibility patches) 16:29:02 <nielsm> that's 2 functions that need up to 3 more variations each then 16:30:01 <nielsm> or I can make 3 functions to produce a "magic" reference value that can be passed to the existing NewElement and UpdateElement functions 16:30:22 <nielsm> I suppose that's safer too, since it will work even if the packing needs to change 16:30:43 <TrueBrain> we do the same for things like Tile etc 16:30:52 <TrueBrain> script-builders should not care what the value is 16:31:38 <TrueBrain> okay, even deleting a CloudFront distribution takes for-ever .. oops .. 16:39:28 <nielsm> oh, it's also been almost a year since I reported this: https://developercommunity.visualstudio.com/idea/433955/support-doxygen-style-suffix-comments.html 16:40:40 <peter1138> How many computers does one person need at home? 16:40:51 <nielsm> zero 16:44:31 <peter1138> I... have somewhat more than zero. Hmm. 16:44:47 <LordAro> do phones count? 16:45:45 <TrueBrain> do ESP8266 count? 16:45:52 <Wolf01> Hmmm, 5? 16:46:20 <TrueBrain> 21? :D 16:46:37 <peter1138> TrueBrain, oh god I'd forgotten about them! 16:46:42 <nielsm> right I'll do it like this: https://0x0.st/zFEB.txt 16:46:52 <Wolf01> 8 if I count the phone 16:47:10 <TrueBrain> nielsm: uint32 as return value? Not a custom type? Just to make typing in the API more clear? 16:47:19 <glx> nielsm: intellisense is not smart with doxygen 16:47:38 <peter1138> Hmm, my DHCP lease table is... 37 items currently. 16:47:38 <LordAro> desktop + fileserver + phone + laptop 16:47:47 <nielsm> TrueBrain: yeah that's just the type for the reference parameter to the NewElement and UpdateElement functions 16:48:02 <LordAro> plus a few other things that probably wouldn't turn on without effort 16:48:08 <nielsm> would it work with just a typedef? 16:48:24 <Wolf01> peter1138: strange, I have only 17 on dhcp :P 16:48:26 <TrueBrain> bit too long ago for me to remember :D 16:48:37 <TrueBrain> but I know we do this more often, in the API type it, while it is uint32 in the backend 16:48:46 <TrueBrain> but a nice solution btw :) 16:48:48 <peter1138> Heck, I have 5 routers (3 are APs) :/ 16:49:08 <TrueBrain> I even have computers monitoring the water-level of my plants :D 16:49:15 <TrueBrain> (and they still die, but who is counting) 16:49:15 <peter1138> Also one of my pis does not appear to expire arp entries. 16:49:24 <TrueBrain> pis, ofc, forgot about those ... 23! 16:49:48 <peter1138> 3 here. This one doing my shell duties, another just... sitting there, and another is a retropie. 16:50:05 <peter1138> 3 ESP8266 although they are not on or even programmed. 16:50:08 <TrueBrain> one connected to my 3D printer .. best investment ever 16:50:19 <TrueBrain> I have more than 10 ESP8266s ... I might have overdone it a bit :P 16:50:28 <peter1138> I get as far as thinking about a 3D printer but not actually getting one. 16:50:31 <TrueBrain> temp, water, light, CO2 .. so many sensors :D 16:50:35 <peter1138> Cheaper in bulk, though. 16:50:43 <TrueBrain> I needed something to put the ESPs in :P 16:50:48 <peter1138> Yeah :D 16:50:48 <TrueBrain> so I bought a 3D printer to do so .... 16:51:03 <peter1138> I... ought to replace my heating system. It's very old-school manual. 16:51:27 <peter1138> There's a thermostat on the wall that switches mains power, because there's no data signals. 16:52:07 <TrueBrain> nielsm: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/script/api/script_client.hpp <- but that is not completely what you are looking for, I guess :) 16:52:09 <peter1138> I guess my lxc containers on my server don't count. 16:52:24 <peter1138> But I do have a piano PC, heh 16:52:25 <TrueBrain> if we start counting that peter1138, we are doomed :P 16:52:30 <peter1138> Yup 16:53:18 <peter1138> I need to figure out how to fix my old forums. When I move it from the old server (wheezy, lol) to the new one (buster) it fails :/ 16:53:47 <peter1138> It is at least now running as a container. 16:54:03 <TrueBrain> \o/ 16:55:44 <TrueBrain> what I found out with the ESPs .. that the world is talking a lot about IoT, but the software around it is really lacking 16:55:54 <TrueBrain> you have to build most things yourself ... which is stupid 16:57:08 <Wolf01> I'm (at work) writing a software for remote controlling systems based on ESP32 through mqtt 16:57:14 <peter1138> I had one ESP running temperature sensors, and pushing the data as mqtt over via. But the somehow the unit still operated its own wifi SSID. 16:57:26 <TrueBrain> I dont understand why people like ESP32 .. it is powerhungry, and adds little benefit over ESP8266 .. 16:58:06 <Wolf01> Because that's what the customer is using 16:58:22 <TrueBrain> sadly, ESP is also focusing on ESP32 ... meaning the RTOS of ESP8266 is a bit annoyingly supported 16:58:41 <Wolf01> Maybe that's the reason 16:58:57 <glx> IoT is often very unsecure 16:59:08 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 16:59:20 <Wolf01> Yes, I'm really worried about that too 16:59:54 <TrueBrain> peter1138: the (closed source) firmware ESP makes is not of the best quality :P 16:59:59 <TrueBrain> like .. it really isn't 17:00:11 <glx> usually they think about features, not about safety 17:00:18 <Wolf01> Also they decided to base it on Google Cloud IoT 17:00:32 <TrueBrain> I was shocked how expensive all those IoT backbones are 17:00:50 <TrueBrain> also LoWaN is insanely expensive 17:02:11 <TrueBrain> but it is fun to toy around with, and build your own IoT network, I guess :) 17:02:29 <TrueBrain> one of the things I run into: via WEP I can drop a payload (measurement, what-ever) in 300ms 17:02:33 <TrueBrain> with WPA2, it takes ~2 seconds 17:02:47 <TrueBrain> somehow ... batteries deplete faster with WPA2 :P 17:03:03 <peter1138> More complex handshake. 17:03:20 <dwfreed> also 3des is a lot less CPU intensive than AES 17:03:44 *** Mazur has joined #openttd 17:03:53 <rptr> is there any AI that can "renovate" its tracks? 17:03:55 <rptr> also upgrade trains 17:04:10 <glx> to help player ? 17:04:18 <LordAro> trAIns upgrades, i think 17:04:19 <glx> no AIs are opponents 17:04:27 <rptr> no... for themselves 17:04:43 <glx> ah yes some may 17:04:57 <rptr> i suppose upgrade is not too hard, can be done without knowing which trains do what 17:05:05 <rptr> or i mean, without remembering what you did before 17:05:42 <glx> you need to know exaclty where the trains are 17:05:58 <glx> and send them to depots before ugrading tracks 17:07:06 * nielsm pokes DorpsGek 17:07:09 <TrueBrain> peter1138 / dwfreed: sadly, has little to do with that (it should be a bit slower, but not 7 times). It is the implementation that is at fault. which took me a while to figure out .. 17:07:18 <TrueBrain> what did DorpsGek do to you to deserve that poke?! 17:07:38 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7896: Feature: Push-buttons on storybook pages https://git.io/JepYW 17:08:30 <nielsm> I was actually just not watching my own console and didn't see git failed push because I had rebased 17:08:40 <TrueBrain> haha 17:08:47 <TrueBrain> happy to see DorpsGek could help :) 17:08:56 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 17:08:58 <glx> 11s commit checker, it's so fast 17:09:02 <rptr> can't you just get all trains, sendall to depot, upgrade *all* rail. then create new depots next to existing, and for each depot, take neighbouring depot, clone each train's orders, tada 17:09:19 *** glx has quit IRC 17:10:02 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:10:02 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 17:11:17 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 17:11:24 <TrueBrain> right, docs are back .. took a lot longer than I wanted ... owh well 17:11:55 <TrueBrain> hmm .. fooooddddd 17:13:21 <rptr> someone wrote on the forum (eons ago) to nag TrueBrain to allow non-latest version dependencies :P 17:16:25 <andythenorth> what shall I look at on the internet? 17:16:59 <nielsm> birds 17:17:48 <nielsm> mine will be having their 5th birdthday this year 17:19:12 <rptr> what kind of bird 17:19:30 <nielsm> I have two male cockatiels 17:19:36 <rptr> i want a cockatrice 17:19:38 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 17:19:59 <peter1138> Meh, wish I could stop eating today. Still going to have dinner but will miss the enjoyment of it. 17:20:01 <rptr> don't they make a lot of noise? 17:20:19 <rptr> oh niels is danish. that's nice 17:21:05 <rptr> peter1138, you should ask nielsm to send you some danish pastries 17:24:20 * andythenorth is hungry 17:24:25 <andythenorth> I failed at lunch 17:24:44 <LordAro> andythenorth: what a noob 17:24:51 <peter1138> I mean... I failed oppositely. 17:25:04 <peter1138> Combine our failures. 17:25:12 <nielsm> yes parrots have a very simple functioning: input food, output noise and poop 17:25:21 <peter1138> That's... me. 17:25:50 <nielsm> some also take scritches as input, and some will produce destruction 17:26:25 <rptr> oh hey peter1138, at Lidl in the baking section, do they have this danish pastry "cake" which is huge? 17:26:27 <rptr> buy it 17:26:39 <rptr> ok i am teasing you now 17:27:42 <andythenorth> peter1138: :| 17:27:43 <nielsm> reminder that "danish pastries" as produced outside denmark are typically only vaguely similar to what you purchse in bakeries in denmark 17:27:58 <rptr> yes but "dagmartarte" is genuine here :P 17:28:12 <rptr> i can confirm that danish pastries outside denmark are worthless and i never eat them unless i go to denmark 17:28:23 <andythenorth> where is pikka bob? 17:28:26 <andythenorth> I have train questions 17:29:28 <peter1138> IRON MAIDEN time 17:29:50 * LordAro tries losing at tanks a bit more 17:30:12 <andythenorth> this https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/ba/Green_arrow_engine_from_the_engineer.jpg/600px-Green_arrow_engine_from_the_engineer.jpg or https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1a/6170_british_legion_official_photograph.jpg this? 17:30:16 <andythenorth> LordAro: which tanks? :P 17:30:22 <LordAro> WoT tanks 17:30:25 <rptr> superlib doesn't have a rail pathfinder? 17:30:29 <andythenorth> the full version? 17:30:32 <andythenorth> not Blitz? 17:30:33 <LordAro> aye 17:30:37 <andythenorth> are the games quite long? 17:31:04 <LordAro> the timelimit on them is 15min, they're usually not more than 10 17:31:07 <rptr> andythenorth, are you obsessed with trains? 17:31:19 <rptr> who is the guy on the forum with "my last train journey was..." 17:31:19 <andythenorth> I'm obsessed with drawing trains 17:31:31 <andythenorth> actual RL trains I like, but am far from obsessed with 17:31:48 <rptr> i used to take a 4 hour train regularly, so many people told me they were jealous :P 17:31:49 <andythenorth> if I go to a heritage railway or something, it mostly actually bores me 17:32:01 <peter1138> My last train journey was... to London. How unexciting. 17:32:12 <rptr> the best train i tried was in the balkans/eastern europe, romania, bulgaria 17:32:15 <rptr> super-old timey trains 17:32:19 <andythenorth> used to be more fun when you could stick your head out of the window 17:32:23 <rptr> that 17:32:31 <andythenorth> now they're like a mobile starbucks 17:32:46 <LordAro> can confirm 17:32:59 <rptr> i remember drinking Romanian toilet water on that train journey. lol 17:33:03 <andythenorth> also, WoT game length is quite short eh? 17:33:05 <andythenorth> but the maps are big? 17:33:06 <rptr> i am sure that will kill me in 10 yeras 17:33:13 <andythenorth> Blitz is about 6 minutes I think 17:35:17 <LordAro> andythenorth: depends on the map, but you can usually cross it in no more than 30s 17:35:26 <andythenorth> wow 17:35:28 <LordAro> but yeah, usually i die very quickly and switch to another tank 17:35:33 <LordAro> like now 17:35:41 <andythenorth> I can't cross most blitz maps in 30s 17:35:47 <andythenorth> but I mostly drive T95 17:35:53 <LordAro> not necessarily *safely* in 30s 17:36:01 <LordAro> you're quite liable to get blown up before you cross the map :p 17:36:28 <andythenorth> oof 17:36:35 <andythenorth> there's no mac WoT 17:36:39 <andythenorth> otherwise I'd try it 17:45:04 <peter1138> boatspeed 4 17:58:12 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Phx01 commented on issue #7939: Feature Request: Moving/Relocating/Offsetting (Certain) Industries https://git.io/JvUr7 18:08:04 * LordAro bored of losing 18:08:17 <andythenorth> Blitz gets that way 18:08:26 <andythenorth> seems to generate losing streaks :P 18:08:29 <andythenorth> what's your WR? 18:09:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Bored of Losing? Try Frostpunk :p 18:09:48 <LordAro> andythenorth: likely barely above 50% 18:10:15 <andythenorth> mine bounces between 40% and 70% for any given few days 18:10:26 <andythenorth> 60%+ is just more fun to play :P 18:11:08 <andythenorth> sometimes it's the teams, sometimes it's....me :| 18:11:42 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 18:58:13 <TrueBrain> Doxygen tries to load a Javascript file that doesn't exist .. 18:58:17 <TrueBrain> that is generating a lot of 404s :) 19:00:38 *** JGR_ has joined #openttd 19:04:46 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: return True; ? 19:06:03 <TrueBrain> I wonder why Doxygen is doing that, tbh 19:06:08 <TrueBrain> sounds like a boo-boo 19:19:36 *** JGR_ has quit IRC 19:28:31 *** Progman has joined #openttd 20:00:52 <nielsm> hm is there an existing type that'a a bitfield of vehicle types? 20:03:21 *** zvxb has quit IRC 20:04:15 *** Progman_ has joined #openttd 20:09:41 *** Progman has quit IRC 20:09:52 *** Progman_ is now known as Progman 20:11:31 <TrueBrain> right, 2 hours later .. and I think I finally can redirect domains to another on AWS :P Nothing is easy 20:11:46 <TrueBrain> Doxygen is weird .. for the AI/GS docs, it doesn't generate all javascript files it does refer to in the HTML 20:11:55 <TrueBrain> when you google this, more people have issues with it 20:12:02 <TrueBrain> but ... not really a clear picture why it happens 20:12:07 <TrueBrain> it is annoying for sure 20:13:25 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 20:13:25 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 20:15:41 <rptr> hmph. the AI pathfinder library is so slow even at a distance of like 10 tiles. hm 20:15:45 <rptr> is it really A-star? 20:16:31 <TrueBrain> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/doxygen/+bug/1631169 <- well, it is debian/ubuntu specific ... perfect ... 20:20:22 *** tokai has quit IRC 20:20:49 <nielsm> rptr: I don't think squirrel is especially fast, really... 20:20:52 <nielsm> :s 20:20:57 <rptr> hmph 20:21:04 <rptr> i dunno. some things seem fast 20:22:05 <TrueBrain> https://pasteboard.co/IQJI2HF.png I FOUND THE UNICORN! 20:22:15 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain opened pull request #42: Fix: workaround a bug in a Debian patch for Doxygen https://git.io/Jvkjy 20:22:48 <rptr> tbh a super-simple DFS algorithm would almost be okay. just keep going until you get there. you'll get an awfully long path potentially but it'll look nice 20:22:48 <andythenorth> lol pathfinder has a really dumb edge case 20:23:00 <rptr> and hopefully there will be no major obstacles so you can basically go straight ahead 20:23:05 <andythenorth> stations A and B, two equal distance routes between them 20:23:09 <rptr> i mean, how often did you build a railway line where you had to make lots of turns 20:23:12 <andythenorth> waypoints 1 and 2 20:23:24 <andythenorth> train has orders to go A->1->B 20:23:41 <andythenorth> it goes A->B->1 (because it can loop back at B) 20:24:25 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/CompileFarm] nielsmh approved pull request #42: Fix: workaround a bug in a Debian patch for Doxygen https://git.io/JvkjQ 20:24:34 <rptr> i will look into D*. it seems perfect for OpenTTD. it deals with changes in the path. make the shortest, when you reach an obstacle that wasn't there before, recalculate from that point. but it's basically a-star where you recalculate i guess 20:24:37 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 20:24:49 <rptr> andythenorth, i was talking about the AI pathfinder library :P 20:24:59 <rptr> they are not necessarily exactly the same though i think both implement the same algorithm 20:25:16 <rptr> but that sounds very stupid andy 20:25:34 <rptr> can't it be solved with more waypoints? i never had that problem 20:25:43 <andythenorth> I am adding more waypoints :) 20:26:15 <rptr> add a waypoint to each rail tile 20:28:50 <Eddi|zuHause> rptr: there are some artificial limitations to slow down AIs that attempt to do expensive/long calculations 20:29:31 <rptr> ok. only in the openttd source, not in the library i guess? 20:29:40 <nielsm> yes 20:29:40 <Eddi|zuHause> rptr: and also things that alter map state are generally suspended for one whole tick 20:30:14 <nielsm> scripts have a max number of ops they can run per tick, with some banking going on I think 20:30:30 <rptr> i suppose i could turn that into a setting? 20:30:31 <nielsm> and depending on difficulty settings, AI scripts only run every N ticks instead of every tick 20:30:45 <rptr> since AI is basically a singleplayer thing and it doesn't affect people if you want to turbo-charge your AI 20:30:50 <Eddi|zuHause> rptr: i'm pretty sure that is a setting, but you can only edit it in the .cfg/console 20:30:52 <rptr> oh yes. i saw that. i forgot 20:31:01 <rptr> ok thanks. will have to remember 20:31:11 <rptr> by .cfg/console you mean my .openttd/... folder? 20:31:31 <rptr> oh. .cfg || console 20:31:38 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 20:31:43 <rptr> thanks 20:33:44 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain merged pull request #42: Fix: workaround a bug in a Debian patch for Doxygen https://git.io/Jvkjy 20:33:46 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JvIeI 20:33:46 <DorpsGek_III_> - Fix: workaround a bug in a Debian patch for Doxygen (#42) (by TrueBrain) 20:35:43 <rptr> shouldn't IsBuildableRectangle make sure that there is no existing building? 20:36:18 <TrueBrain> w00p, https://noai.openttd.org and https://nogo.openttd.org no longer go over the old infrastructure :) 20:36:21 <TrueBrain> getting there! 20:36:26 <TrueBrain> right, what next ... 20:36:52 <nielsm> yes IsBuildableRectangle just check if all tiles in the rectangle are buildable 20:37:10 <rptr> buildable meaning 20:37:29 <Samu> check openttd code for that 20:37:30 <rptr> my ai wants to build on the same spot as it did before 20:38:16 <rptr> ok let's get rid of all documentation 20:39:20 <Samu> :) 20:40:14 <rptr> it's very strange cause it worked before... 20:52:24 *** Mazur has quit IRC 20:54:31 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7896: Feature: Push-buttons on storybook pages https://git.io/JepYW 20:55:08 <peter1138> Hi 20:56:50 <glx> rptr: maybe the town refused 20:59:28 <rptr> no. it built a station, then it looks for a new location, and it picks the exact same one... 20:59:31 <rptr> it seems. 21:01:52 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like an error in your AI 21:02:09 <Eddi|zuHause> like, using the wrong variable 21:05:54 <rptr> yep 21:10:32 <Samu> a new ai is coming? 21:15:30 <Samu> meanwhile, im testing 15 CivilAIs in a 2kx2k map 21:18:57 <rptr> :D 21:19:01 <rptr> that sounds really nice 21:19:24 <rptr> it's a cooperative AI (you have cheat to put yourself in the same team) 21:19:28 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:20:03 <rptr> but it's for my own filthy uses anyway 21:20:18 <rptr> considering how shit it is i don't think anyone will want it 21:21:34 <rptr> should have just adapted choochoo. that worked 21:25:38 <rptr> tho. once i have the coop parts done i could just make it play solo... 21:26:54 <Samu> 3 CivilAis still started near each other, given the map size :( 21:27:13 <Samu> random not being that kind of random 21:28:08 <rptr> presumably it has some certain starting strategy 21:37:22 <Samu> testing my https://github.com/SamuXarick/OpenTTD/tree/SamuPatchPack openttd build 21:37:34 <Samu> I like it for testing AIs on it 21:40:21 <Samu> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/compare/master...SamuXarick:SamuPatchPack ah, the list of changes :o 21:42:34 *** Wormnest__ has joined #openttd 21:46:47 *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC 21:49:11 <Samu> which other AIs work well with multiple instances? 21:49:44 <Samu> aka, random picks 21:50:07 <Samu> hmm simpleai i think 21:58:06 <andythenorth> bed 21:58:06 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 22:02:30 <peter1138> Oh, hmm. php url rewriting apparently messes up with php-fpm :/ 22:12:08 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 22:12:59 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 22:17:30 <Eddi|zuHause> "php url rewriting" sounds like the start of a thriller movie 22:17:40 <Borg> ;D 22:17:55 <Borg> PHP is generally scary.. 22:17:56 <Eddi|zuHause> where i'm not sure if it later turns into a spy movie or a doomsday movie 22:18:30 <Borg> http://borg.uu3.net/~borg/?fun/fnp10 22:18:31 <Borg> ;) 22:19:29 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 22:20:19 <peter1138> Oh, it doesn't mess it up. AllowOverrides None messes it up :p 22:20:37 <peter1138> Apparently AllowOverrides in a vhost section isn't working. Hmm. 22:21:45 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:27:29 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:35:03 *** Wormnest__ has quit IRC 22:42:36 *** Borg has quit IRC 22:46:40 <rptr> what's a nice AI to look at? 22:46:57 <rptr> i guess i'll try simple, to see the original behaviour 22:51:44 <rptr> wow. simpleai is so cute 22:54:04 <FLHerne> AIAI used to be the one to beat, ChooChoo might have beaten it by now 22:54:40 <FLHerne> If you look at CivilAI, you can ask Pikka how it works whenever he shows up here next 22:56:08 <rptr> "the one to beat" as in try to beat in singleplayer? 22:56:34 <rptr> oh i can read the code and all. and i understand the idea with civil. i just wanted to look at some *in action* to see if they make nice things 22:56:44 <rptr> like, complex networks 22:56:56 <rptr> simpleai is cute though 22:57:07 <rptr> choochoo is my reference AI whose code i look at 22:58:24 <FLHerne> Years ago, when I played with AIs, AIAI was the only one remotely capable of keeping up with a human player 22:58:33 <FLHerne> The others were just hopeless 22:58:47 <FLHerne> That might have changed since :P 22:59:03 *** nielsm has quit IRC 22:59:41 <FLHerne> ChooChoo is the only one I remember seeing that builds really-joined-up networks 22:59:57 <FLHerne> WmDOT builds roads, but it mostly does that for its own sake 23:00:11 <rptr> yeah. choochoo does that, but it's not that good :/ i mean it's impressive that it does even what it does i suppose 23:00:25 <FLHerne> i.e. its purpose is to connect towns with roads, and to make profit only in order to build more roads 23:00:27 <rptr> maybe i should scrap what i have, read all of choochoo and try to improve upon it 23:00:35 <rptr> i am basically copying choochoo with some differences and using superlib 23:00:43 <rptr> LOL 23:00:49 <rptr> (roads) 23:00:52 <rptr> i like that in an AI though 23:01:00 <rptr> i wrote one that turns the world into water 23:01:09 <rptr> i figured you can combine that with ShipAI 23:01:25 <FLHerne> https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=143971 23:01:26 <rptr> unfortunately ShipAI can't make enough money to remove more than 10 tiles of land a year. lol 23:01:33 <rptr> LOL 23:01:38 <rptr> Version 6: now with fewer roads 23:01:45 <rptr> i like that network though 23:01:54 <FLHerne> [the odd gaps are tunnels/bridges, probably] 23:02:20 <FLHerne> (from https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=53698 - the changelog says "Builds less of a road mess in late game") 23:02:22 <rptr> what i'm doing, that i think ChooChoo is not, is saving all stations and networks, so that later i can see. ok i want to add this station to the fold, well it seems there's a network, let's add to it. while choochoo seems do something similar, but once it has finished a network task- 23:02:31 <rptr> i think it basically forgets its whole network. but maybe i'm wrong. i didn't read it all 23:02:42 <rptr> tbh i like an AI that goes crazy 23:02:51 <rptr> supposedly AdmiralAI and DictatorAI are good 23:03:26 <rptr> i tried both but they didn't exactly blow me away. i mean if we are talking AIs making more money than players, you should just have it make longtrains+longlines 23:04:08 <FLHerne> That way leads to "build airports in diagonally-opposite corners of the map, ..." 23:04:14 <rptr> ah ok 23:04:20 <rptr> well, if it was just making a difficult one 23:04:41 <rptr> airports should be banned from AI anyway :P 23:04:54 <FLHerne> IMO, there's a point in OTTD where making money optimally becomes a daft goal 23:06:31 <rptr> well once you have more money than you can spend it stops mattering 23:08:32 <FLHerne> Yeah 23:12:54 *** supermop_Home has joined #openttd 23:13:01 <supermop_Home> yo 23:14:27 <FLHerne> oy 23:14:49 <rptr> hm. i should try a straight clean game against an ai 23:15:08 <rptr> supposedly LudiAI is good 23:15:38 <FLHerne> Samu spent a lot of time running head-to-head AI comparisons to see which one would "win" 23:15:47 <rptr> yeah i saw some website about that. mousetail.nl 23:15:52 <FLHerne> (in terms of money, I think, or rating) 23:16:07 <rptr> wow. that's so nasty! ludiai or admiralai used the other AIs road network! :P 23:16:19 <rptr> there is one big road connecting 3 cities. and 1 of them made it, the other one is leeching. nice 23:17:52 <FLHerne> <Samu> WormAI 1st, RailwAI 2nd, LuDiAI AfterFix 3rd, NoNoCAB 4th, SnakeAI 5th, ShipAI 6th, CivilAI 7th 23:17:55 <FLHerne> https://i.imgur.com/9XJyTto.png 23:18:48 <rptr> trains is very strong 23:19:04 <rptr> oh. i'm not testing worm. railwai though 23:20:53 <rptr> 1well for me trAIns is kicking ass in the early game 23:22:35 <rptr> but civilai is the nicest 23:26:54 *** tokai has joined #openttd 23:26:54 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 23:28:17 <supermop_Home> any good 1.10 games going on? 23:32:58 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 23:46:31 *** hythlodaeus has joined #openttd 23:46:42 <hythlodaeus> hi 23:54:43 <rptr> ok. LudiAI went crazy from one moment to the next, bought 200 planes, and is leading 23:54:46 <rptr> trAIns stagnated 23:57:19 <hythlodaeus> we should implement carbon emission caps to balance planes ahah