Log for #openttd on 27th February 2020:
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00:38:16  <Eddi|zuHause> close enough?
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02:32:21  <Eddi|zuHause> soo... the game managed to use up all my ram and swap...
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03:37:03  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] spauka updated pull request #8023: Fix #7644: (Cocoa) Manually set colorspace to sRGB
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03:40:50  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] spauka commented on pull request #8023: Fix #7644: (Cocoa) Manually set colorspace to sRGB
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07:43:18  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro requested changes for pull request #8023: Fix #7644: (Cocoa) Manually set colorspace to sRGB
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09:27:32  <dihedral> Hello
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09:55:12  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] spauka updated pull request #8023: Fix #7644: (Cocoa) Manually set colorspace to sRGB
09:56:26  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] spauka commented on pull request #8023: Fix #7644: (Cocoa) Manually set colorspace to sRGB
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10:10:38  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro dismissed a review for pull request #8023: Fix #7644: (Cocoa) Manually set colorspace to sRGB
10:11:06  <LordAro> hmm, wrong niels
10:12:15  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge commented on pull request #8025: Remove: Support for macOS before 10.9
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11:01:00  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge commented on pull request #8023: Fix #7644: (Cocoa) Manually set colorspace to sRGB
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12:26:01  <TrueBrain> hmm ... we have some uploads that changes content_type .. that is funny :)
12:26:18  <TrueBrain> SuperLib for example, used to be a GS Library, and is now an AI Library
12:26:38  <TrueBrain> wait, no
12:26:40  <TrueBrain> that is not what ishappening
12:26:45  <TrueBrain> they have the same uniqueid
12:26:49  <TrueBrain> and are in 2 categories .. ah
12:26:51  <TrueBrain> that makes more sense
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12:51:15  <TrueBrain> the meta-data of BaNaNaS is 40 MiB ... that is a lot more data than I expected :o
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13:19:30  <TrueBrain> "badbadbadbadbadbadbadbadbadbadba" <- cool MD5 :)
13:19:31  <TrueBrain> lol
13:21:03  <SpComb> haxxed
13:22:19  <LordAro> very suspicious :p
13:22:55  <LordAro> the one to actually look out for is d41d8cd... as that's the one for the empty string
13:23:17  <LordAro> which implies you've screwed up reading in the file some how
13:23:24  <TrueBrain> lol
13:23:34  <LordAro> (this may or may not have been an issue at work a while back)
13:23:52  <TrueBrain> okay, out of all of the content on BaNaNaS, I have 4 entries that appear to be valid but are not really
13:24:04  <TrueBrain> 2 of them because who-ever blacklisted the entries did a poor job (read: me)
13:24:08  <TrueBrain> 1 because of the above md5
13:24:16  <TrueBrain> and 1 because of duplicated uniqueid entries
13:24:29  <TrueBrain> that, out of 4700 or so, is not bad :D
13:25:18  <TrueBrain> how to find a folder that does NOT have a file in it?
13:25:49  <LordAro> find -type d -empty
13:26:04  <LordAro> (assuming GNU)
13:26:08  <TrueBrain> not empty, not has a specific file :D
13:26:34  <LordAro> ah
13:27:10  <TrueBrain> I will make my script do it :P
13:27:18  <TrueBrain> people did some bat-shit crazy stuff over the years
13:27:23  <LordAro> globbing + some cutting ?
13:27:52  <LordAro> oh no, the inverse
13:27:53  <TrueBrain> for example, invalidating one NewGRF with another .. which has another ID
13:27:55  <TrueBrain> which is fine, ofc
13:28:03  <TrueBrain> but a bit annoying
13:28:04  <LordAro> ?
13:28:28  <TrueBrain> lol, 'test', that is smart
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13:29:12  <TrueBrain> how the hell am I going to validate if all this information I now have is correct
13:29:17  <TrueBrain> YOLO?
13:30:02  <milek7> is that hash just server tricked into writing arbitrary string?
13:30:09  <milek7>  i don't think preimage on md5 is possible?
13:30:39  <TrueBrain> no ,that is me manually changing an entry so I would remember it was bad
13:30:57  <TrueBrain> just .. 10 years ago
13:32:44  <TrueBrain> some people change the grfid on every upload
13:34:36  <TrueBrain> as we  have a folder per uniqueid .. hmm .. these folders are basically "deprecated"
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13:36:30  <TrueBrain> owh boy, more conflicits in GRF ids ..
13:37:07  <TrueBrain> basically ... if you upload a new version with a different GRFID, BaNaNaS releases the old GRFID for others to upload to
13:37:08  <TrueBrain> that clearly is a bug
13:37:15  <TrueBrain> but I now have 3 cases of this
13:37:19  <TrueBrain> 1 is totally irrelevant
13:37:22  <TrueBrain> the other 2 .. hmm ..
13:38:38  <TrueBrain> hmm .. does the "select upgradable" work for those cases ...
13:38:40  <TrueBrain> I guess not?
13:39:26  <TrueBrain> so if you had that GRF installed, and you clicked upgrade in the UI, you get another GRF
13:39:27  <TrueBrain> lol
13:39:28  <TrueBrain> oops? :D
13:40:44  <TrueBrain> ah, luck has it .. 0 downloads of those GRFs
13:40:53  <TrueBrain> so .. I am just going to make them inactive
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13:42:59  <TrueBrain> 195,797,869 downloads of online content (total number) .. and it is online for 11 years .. so ..
13:43:04  <TrueBrain> @calc 195797869 / 11 / 12 / 30
13:43:04  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 49443.9063131
13:43:12  <TrueBrain> 50000 downloads per day from the online content :P
13:43:37  <TrueBrain> (and that is only counting via the OpenTTD client)
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13:43:58  <LordAro> nice.
13:46:55  <TrueBrain> hmm .. how to keep stats in the new setup ... I dunno yet
13:50:20  <LordAro> would be a shame to lose them
13:50:35  <TrueBrain> fully agree
13:50:44  <TrueBrain> we used to have stats per hour, but that table kept crashing :P
13:50:56  <TrueBrain> so that information hasn't worked in years
13:51:08  <TrueBrain> but knowing almost 200M downloads happened, is just nice to know, I guess
13:51:42  <TrueBrain> tempted to setup an InfluxDB :P
13:51:47  <TrueBrain> anyway, back to what I was doing ...
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14:01:25  <TrueBrain> 119 GRFID are used but deprecated by another ID
14:01:27  <TrueBrain> such a waste :P
14:02:33  <TrueBrain> seems many of them had almost no downloads
14:03:33  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: that seems like a totally natural statistics
14:03:43  <TrueBrain> how do you mean? :)
14:03:54  <Eddi|zuHause> like, 50% of the words in shakespeares works have been used exactly once
14:04:03  <TrueBrain> lol
14:04:12  <TrueBrain> okay, I think my export is valid now ...
14:04:21  <TrueBrain> only time will tell if that is true, but okay
14:05:17  <Eddi|zuHause> that's a side effect of the 80-20 rule (pareto principle)
14:06:06  <Eddi|zuHause> pr. bpth are symptoms of the same distribution
14:10:57  <peter1138> Yay, Mono to .Net Core conversion works. Well, it runs at least.
14:11:27  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: if it compiles, ship it.
14:11:33  <peter1138> Exactly!
14:12:40  <TrueBrain> hmm ... another "fun" quirk: if I set a dependency of a NewGRF to your NewGRF, and you say: my NewGRF should no longer be available for new games
14:12:44  <TrueBrain> it still is available for new games :P
14:13:10  <peter1138> That's probably how it's meant to work.
14:13:17  <peter1138> Awkward though.
14:13:28  <peter1138> Available trumps not available. Hmm.
14:13:39  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that's why a few newgrf confusingly are available in two versions
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14:14:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i think it's also if a scenario sets it as dependency?
14:14:19  <TrueBrain> any dependency, yes
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14:15:31  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it should hide these by default, and magically appear in the selection if the dependency-inducing item is selected
14:16:28  <TrueBrain> I was more thinking: don't show it as dependency ever in the UI, but at download time, download the older version anyway?
14:16:36  <TrueBrain> not sure ... this is not fully trivial :D
14:17:42  <Eddi|zuHause> that's vaguely similar to what i tried to say
14:18:13  <TrueBrain> differens between never showing, and magically showing, yes :)
14:20:32  <TrueBrain>         self._md5sum_mapping = defaultdict(lambda: defaultdict(dict))
14:20:34  <TrueBrain> you got to love Python
14:21:46  <Eddi|zuHause> i've never used defaultdict
14:21:57  <TrueBrain> its so beautiful
14:21:59  <Eddi|zuHause> i probably should have, in some places
14:22:19  <Eddi|zuHause> but i'll forget when i need it
14:26:25  <TrueBrain> when ever you do: if a not in b: b[a] = ...
14:26:29  <TrueBrain> you need a defaultdict :)
14:28:21  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. and i definitely needed that before
14:28:45  <TrueBrain> ghehe, found a funny issue with YAML
14:29:03  <TrueBrain> a user had something like: \stext\n\stext\ntext
14:29:05  <TrueBrain> as description
14:29:21  <TrueBrain> so in YAML that is: description: |\n\s\s\stext\n\s\s\stext\n\s\stext\n
14:29:39  <TrueBrain> the problem is ... it was thinking: the next lines starting with 3 spaces is part of my description
14:29:46  <TrueBrain> and as the last line was only 2 spaces ...
14:29:56  <TrueBrain> you got to love users, with random spaces in random places
14:30:59  <TrueBrain> omg, all data loaded in the content server ... wtf is this :o
14:31:46  <Eddi|zuHause> when it looks like you've won, it's probably a deception
14:32:50  <TrueBrain> it .. really works ..
14:34:39  <TrueBrain> okay, now I need a savegame with an old GRF
14:34:46  <TrueBrain> suggestions?
14:35:24  <Eddi|zuHause> some random ticket?
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14:35:36  <andythenorth> all but one, done!
14:35:39  <Eddi|zuHause> openttdcoop?
14:35:45  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: give me a savegame with an old GRF ! :P
14:36:04  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: all mine use unreleased grfs, no use to you
14:36:14  <andythenorth> coop has a savegame archive somewhere?
14:37:06  <Eddi|zuHause> all mine have dbsetxl 0.82, which is... old... but probably not helpful for your test :p
14:37:18  <TrueBrain> old, and not latest
14:37:21  <TrueBrain> that is what I need :P
14:38:51  <TrueBrain> <- that is too much copy/paste :D Lol
14:38:55  <andythenorth> we could make some savegames :P
14:39:10  <TrueBrain> yeah, I am looking for an old GRF now, which has a newer version :)
14:39:25  <andythenorth>
14:39:38  <andythenorth> or
14:39:47  <andythenorth> all the released versions will also be on bananas
14:39:57  <TrueBrain> sweet, tnx
14:40:08  <andythenorth> hth
14:42:22  <TrueBrain> there is a function FillContentDetails and FindContentDetails
14:42:26  <TrueBrain> that is not confusing AT ALL
14:42:38  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i thought i once uploaded a game to flyspray, but seems like i uploaded it to some personal webspace and just linked it. so that is not accessible anymore
14:48:09  <TrueBrain> funny ... I did not quote the MD5 in YAML
14:48:15  <TrueBrain> so md5sum: ab1234 is fine
14:48:21  <TrueBrain> md5sum: 1234 becomes a number :D
14:48:25  <TrueBrain> stupid me, forgetting to quote :P
14:51:23  <andythenorth> BBL
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14:53:28  <TrueBrain> so, "fun fact" .. the files andy has for Iron Horse is not what is uploaded to BaNaNaS .. at least not for 1.2.0 :P
14:53:30  <TrueBrain> ffs :P
14:55:06  <TrueBrain> seems they all have different md5sums
14:55:26  <TrueBrain> yeah .. they are all different
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14:55:51  <TrueBrain> I need andy to explain himself :D
14:57:20  <TrueBrain> same for FIRS
15:02:58  <TrueBrain> grfid agrees with me
15:03:06  <TrueBrain> what ever andy puts up on bundles, is not what he uploads to BaNaNaS
15:03:10  <TrueBrain> sneaky
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15:04:32  <andythenorth> oof JGRPP bingo failed on reddit
15:04:34  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: EXPLAIN YOURSELF! :P
15:04:40  <andythenorth> not mentioned in top 3 :(
15:04:44  <TrueBrain> the GRFs on bundles are different from what you upload to BaNaNaS
15:04:45  <LordAro> TrueBrain: summoning worked this time
15:04:49  <TrueBrain> wtf is that about?
15:04:53  <andythenorth> was all the way down on comment 6
15:04:57  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: wat wat?
15:05:05  <andythenorth> which grf, what's different?
15:05:08  <TrueBrain> I downloaded the tar from the URL you gave for Iron Horse
15:05:15  <andythenorth> YAIR YAIR
15:05:25  <andythenorth> there might be some lolz incoming
15:05:28  <TrueBrain> and grfid -m returns an MD5 that is different from the one on BaNaNaS
15:05:40  <TrueBrain> so you are being sneaky?!
15:05:59  <Samu> i am trying to optimize / simplify the code for #8009, and for some reason i'm getting an increase in time needed
15:06:06  <Samu> :(
15:06:25  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: this sounds lolz
15:08:44  <andythenorth> I have to do some $$££ work, but I am sure there is an explanation :P
15:08:58  <TrueBrain> keep running
15:09:13  <andythenorth> are they the same grfs?
15:09:16  <TrueBrain> what you uploaded has version r914M instead of 1.2.0
15:09:18  <TrueBrain> that explains ;)
15:09:26  <andythenorth> ah yeah that will just be clown shoes
15:09:28  <TrueBrain> so the version string inside is different :)
15:09:34  <andythenorth> 9 out of 10 times I brown bag the release
15:09:47  <andythenorth> oof
15:10:05  <andythenorth> I EVEN HAVE A CHECKLIST
15:10:36  <TrueBrain> okay, this works :D w00p
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15:10:57  <TrueBrain> it even tells the correct version
15:10:58  <TrueBrain> sweet
15:11:40  <TrueBrain> right, next step done. Now the HTTP part .. shouldn't be hard
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15:21:24  <Samu> i don't understand this. in debug build i was getting worse times, in release build, i expected the same, but nop, the optimisations I tried actually improve times
15:21:35  <Samu> debug build lies
15:22:17  <Samu> gonna retry debug again
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15:34:24  <Samu> interesting
15:35:02  <Samu> wow pastebin popup adds are annoying...
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15:36:01  <Samu> i double checked these us times
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15:56:49  <Samu> i found a "not really a bug" with npf. it StationType for Oilrigs are STATION_DOCK. It should be STATION_OILRIG
15:57:01  <Samu> but I suppose it doesn't matter, ships still find their way
15:58:44  <Samu> fstd->station_type = v->current_order.IsType(OT_GOTO_STATION) ? STATION_DOCK : STATION_BUOY;
15:58:46  <Samu> found it
16:02:03  <Samu> 		case STATION_DOCK:
16:02:03  <Samu> 		case STATION_OILRIG:
16:02:03  <Samu> 			*ta = this->docking_station;
16:02:17  <Samu> heh, mere luck that it doesn't get broken
16:02:32  <Samu> they fall into the same category
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16:10:32  <peter1138> Luck or design? o_O
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16:21:44  <Samu_> m_destTile      = CalcClosestStationTile(m_destStation, v->tile, GetStationType(Station::Get(m_destStation)->xy));
16:21:50  <Samu_> should be this
16:22:08  <Samu_> yapf also assumes STATION_DOCK for oilrigs
16:22:28  <Samu_> i was also assuming that too, got to fix?
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16:22:56  <Samu_> btw, what's the difference between BaseStation and Station?
16:23:03  <Samu_> what should I use here
16:38:11  <Samu_> I just realised this is also wrong :(
16:38:34  <Samu_> can't get it by ->xy
16:38:45  <Samu_> must think
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16:42:16  <Samu_> there's StationFacility and StationType
16:42:27  <Samu_> I require StationType
16:46:43  <Samu_> I can't properly get StationType if I only have the StationID?
16:56:40  <nielsm> Station is the class for the kind of stations where vehicles can stop and transfer cargo
16:56:49  <nielsm> BaseStation is the parts common between Waypoint and Station
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17:08:54  <Samu_> ah
17:11:59  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] msikma commented on issue #7644: Mysteriously poor performance on macOS
17:16:12  <Samu_> screw it, STATION_DOCK it is
17:16:22  <Samu_> too much work to make it right
17:16:34  <Samu_> after all, it still works
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17:37:14  <spnda> I just saw some updates on those precombined or anti90° railtypes on the forums, looks neat. Also what about When's that being updated?
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17:42:32  <Samu> all right, i managed to optimise code for NPF as well, but not as much as YAPF
17:43:25  <Samu> nfp: if (DistanceManhattan(fstd->dest_coords, fstd->v->tile) < 16) {
17:43:45  <Samu> yapf: if (Yapf().GetDestinationDistanceManhattan() < 16) {
17:44:21  <Samu> GetDestinationDistanceManhattan is an already computed DistanceManhattan
17:44:37  <Samu> it just retrieves a number
17:45:03  <Samu> for npf, it has to go through DistanceManhattan function every node :(
17:45:59  <Samu> distancemanhattan is thus computed once per pathfind instance for yapf
17:46:14  <Samu> oh well, gonna PR
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17:49:08  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8009: Change #8001: Don't add docking tile cost when ships are still too far from their destination
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18:03:59  <Samu> cool, it filters out ship depots and buoys
18:04:15  <Samu> this line here
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19:03:18  <andythenorth> yo
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19:06:26  <andythenorth> Samu: tomorrow I will be able to tell you if Greta is an animatronic fake
19:06:28  <andythenorth> or real
19:06:41  <TrueBrain> so exciting!
19:06:42  * andythenorth suspects she's real, but maybe I'm just sheeple
19:07:17  <andythenorth> if I had a longer lifespan, I would dedicate 10% of it to fucking with conspiracy theories about conspiracy theories
19:07:22  <andythenorth> but as it is, pixels
19:07:34  <andythenorth> frosch123: o_O
19:07:40  <andythenorth> 99%
19:12:45  <frosch123> hoi
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19:13:12  <andythenorth> now we can make a mess again? o_O
19:20:06  <frosch123> <- these pages should be merged, they will always have the same variables, like vehicles
19:20:29  <frosch123> same with action 0
19:20:41  <frosch123> not sure whether it also makes sense to merge railtypes
19:21:02  <frosch123> or whether to separate it like vehicles: tracktype, rail-specific, road/tram-specific
19:21:42  <frosch123> oh, also action3.  someone was very active with copy/paste
19:23:14  <frosch123> why do people have such issues with > and ≥ ?
19:23:36  <frosch123> "Roadtypes are available only in OpenTTD > 1.10"
19:24:20  <andythenorth> NML merged the type table pages
19:25:29  <TrueBrain> frosch123: another year before NRT? :P
19:25:36  <frosch123> but i see, you fixed all the "?" in the specs
19:26:38  <andythenorth> I fixed the ones I saw
19:31:22  <frosch123> hmm, where to list the road/tramtype labels
19:31:24  <andythenorth> yeah merging tramtype and roadtype but not railtype seems odd
19:31:27  <andythenorth> hmm
19:31:33  <andythenorth> it's all potato / potato though
19:31:38  <frosch123> it makes no sense to create two pages for a single label each :p
19:31:44  <andythenorth> aren't there about 10 railtype pages?
19:32:10  <andythenorth>
19:32:17  <frosch123> the nml roadtype page is wrong, it lists ELRD and RAIL
19:32:20  <andythenorth> oh it's just this that confuses me I remember
19:32:53  <frosch123> i think i rename the page to tracktypelabels, and add them all
19:33:02  <andythenorth> nml roadtype label entry also has a wrong link
19:33:06  <andythenorth>
19:33:28  <andythenorth> oof I should eat dinner or something, can't brain
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19:35:22  <frosch123> <- good wording for tram?
19:35:56  <andythenorth> works for me
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19:55:45  <frosch123> the nml page lies
19:55:53  <frosch123>
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19:56:21  <frosch123> it's true that rail/road/tram/cargo labels are separate in ottd, but within an nml file nml cannot distinguish them
19:56:32  <andythenorth> oh yes
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19:56:54  <frosch123> no idea how to word that :)
19:57:48  <andythenorth> you could fail this ticket and leave notes :P
19:57:55  <andythenorth> and I will go round again and fix more
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20:05:00  <TrueBrain> yippie, dependencies also work \o/ :D That wasn't easy ... but it works! :D
20:05:53  <TrueBrain> frosch123: found a nice .. issue, we need to solve some day .. a dependency link can make older versions of content appear in the UI :)
20:06:48  <TrueBrain> and nothing the content-server can do about it, as the client fetches all the dependencies to show them
20:07:14  <TrueBrain> so scenarios can keep NewGRFs visible that are set to "savegames-only"
20:11:38  <frosch123> TrueBrain: yes, that is known. user complained about that
20:12:01  <TrueBrain> here I was, hoping to tell you something new :(
20:12:08  <frosch123> when you download multiple ai, they select libraries in all kind of versions
20:12:19  <TrueBrain> SuperLib is on the list like 7 times
20:12:26  <TrueBrain> not ordered by version, ofc :D
20:13:42  <frosch123> i think there was more stuff broken in ottd about dependencies, but i cant quite remember
20:14:31  <frosch123> i dont think they were fixed, but with lesser ai dev activity, they probably appear less often
20:14:47  <andythenorth> funny how broken it is, but successful
20:14:52  <andythenorth> like most of the internet :P
20:15:09  <TrueBrain> yeah ... 200M ingame downloads over 11 years
20:15:18  <TrueBrain> (BaNaNaS launched in Jan 2009 as beta)
20:15:31  <TrueBrain> that is 50000 ingame downloads per day
20:15:32  <TrueBrain> insane
20:16:00  <glx> and that includes "select all" downloads
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20:16:44  <frosch123> well, compared to 50000 download of ottd per month, that makes 30 bananas downoads per ottd download
20:17:04  <frosch123> though i have no idea how often ottd is downloaded now, stats broke in 2014?
20:17:19  <TrueBrain> I still have to find something to parse the new access logs
20:17:35  <glx> and many probably get it via their package manager
20:19:56  <frosch123> but i don't think we ever reached the 200k downloads of first month of 1.0 ever again :p
20:20:23  <TrueBrain> well, we can get there again if we like .. but things would need to change for that :)
20:20:37  <frosch123> nah, users are annoying
20:21:12  <glx> sometimes they submit good bug reports ;)
20:21:17  <spnda> I wonder how many downloads JGR gets
20:21:21  <glx> on the first try
20:21:32  <TrueBrain> spnda: I wonder too :)
20:21:55  <TrueBrain> lol .... I made a minor change to the "internal" id of the content server
20:21:57  <TrueBrain> it is send as an uint32
20:22:02  <TrueBrain> but OpenTTD client makes an int32 out of it
20:22:07  <TrueBrain> so now I am seeing negative values :D
20:22:08  <glx> oups
20:22:11  <TrueBrain> OWH HAPPY DAYS
20:22:13  <frosch123> extrapolating from online servers, it's as popular as nightly sued to be
20:22:36  <frosch123> nightly had about 6% downloads compared to stable
20:22:39  <TrueBrain> I still hope we can lend a bit more of our infrastructure to help out JGR
20:22:53  <TrueBrain> I believe he asked about that a while ago .. I asked a few questions back,never got a reply, if memory serves me well
20:23:06  <frosch123> spnda: so, my guess is about 100/day
20:23:09  <glx> not having nightlies for some time probably reduce their popularity
20:23:15  <spnda> frosch123: We could ask him
20:23:35  <frosch123> are you sure he has stats?
20:23:39  <TrueBrain> while at it, tell him OpenTTD's infrastructure is his too :P
20:23:43  <spnda> Assuming they download over the GitHub repository
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20:24:47  <spnda> If anyone's part of the OpenTTD group on GitHub:
20:24:48  <spnda>
20:24:56  <spnda> I'm sure you can get some info there
20:26:56  <TrueBrain> okay, lets take 2 days ago ... download attempts (not files, it goes in batches, so you can estimate this as amount of clients being active) 1500 for 1.9.3, 500 for 1.10.0-RC1, 150 for 1.8.0, 50 for jgrpp-0.33.2 .. in total jgrpp is .. 150, I would say
20:27:00  <TrueBrain> so that is pretty darn good tbfh
20:27:24  <TrueBrain> download attempts via ingame content thingy btw
20:27:35  <frosch123> 300 unique clones in 2 weeks sounds a lot
20:27:45  <TrueBrain> some people still use 1.1.5 :D Lol
20:28:04  <TrueBrain> 1.0.4-RC1
20:28:09  <TrueBrain> 1.0.1 .. even older
20:28:26  <TrueBrain> lets run this on the last 90 days ...
20:28:41  <glx> OS would be interresting for these old versions
20:28:47  <spnda> Actually, that was a bad link
20:28:51  <spnda> There's a better one
20:28:57  <TrueBrain> not reported, so I don't know that glx
20:29:07  <milek7> i bet it's win xp
20:29:34  <glx> hmm 1.8.0 is winXP compatible IIRC
20:29:34  <frosch123> there were complains that we dropped 98 last year
20:29:43  <TrueBrain> 177k 1.9.3, 23k 1.10.0-beta2, 15k 1.10.0-beta1, 15k 1.8.0 .. lol
20:30:06  <TrueBrain> 12k jgrpp (over various of versions)
20:30:40  <TrueBrain> that are people downloading 1 or more items from the ingame content listing
20:30:48  <TrueBrain> damn ... OpenTTD is always more popular than I realise ..
20:31:21  <frosch123> so we have about 100k players? assuming that people only visit bananas twice in 90 days
20:31:34  <glx> frosch123: but old mingw/msys doesn't support our code, and I don't know is mingw-w64/msys2 works for win9x
20:32:05  <TrueBrain> frosch123: well, people that use the online content
20:32:10  <TrueBrain> we ofc also have people not doing that
20:32:13  <frosch123> glx: i know, i explcitily told tb to drop any platform that does not compile c++14
20:32:32  <TrueBrain> 134k unique IPs that used the ingame content thingy in the last 90 days
20:32:43  <TrueBrain> 10% of that is jgrpp
20:33:03  <spnda> Idk, I think this will work.... but it requires auth.
20:33:11  <andythenorth> only 10%
20:33:13  <andythenorth> ?
20:33:17  <spnda> that'sforthe newest  release, 1.10.0-RC1
20:33:25  <glx> spnda: only source package is on github
20:33:43  <spnda> well, it was an example
20:33:52  <spnda> could use it to see JGR's downlaods
20:35:07  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: that use the ingame content, yes. At least deduplicating IPs suggest that :)
20:35:16  <TrueBrain> take it all with a grain of salt, ofc
20:35:22  <frosch123> the referral sites are weird. forums are pretty unpopular
20:35:26  <TrueBrain> but that are a lot of players, damn ...
20:36:17  <spnda> Newest JGR was downloaded 91 times lol
20:36:34  <TrueBrain> the problem with jgrpp currently, is that you need to know about it to find it
20:36:38  <TrueBrain> I would love for it to be more visible
20:36:47  <spnda> Yeah
20:36:56  <TrueBrain> like some sort of auto-updater ingame where you can select it, or what-ever
20:37:04  <TrueBrain> or on
20:37:07  <TrueBrain> or what-ever
20:38:36  <frosch123> TrueBrain: "helping with creating binaries" is a different thing to "sending newbies your way"
20:39:19  <glx> hehe it can backfire and increase number of invalid bug reports
20:39:25  <andythenorth> I would expect JGR is > 10%
20:39:33  <frosch123> i would not take it for granted that a single-maintainer is happy about getting lots of users at some point
20:39:44  <TrueBrain> so maybe that needs fixing too :)
20:39:53  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: information bias, I am afraid
20:39:55  <andythenorth> maintainer burnout is never obvious until they break
20:40:01  <TrueBrain> just because you read a lot about something, doesn't make it more popular ;)
20:41:01  <andythenorth> I don't know JGR well enough to know if this is fine, or frustration
20:41:24  <andythenorth> but JGR thread recieves ~some level of general OpenTTD bug reports and requests
20:42:07  <TrueBrain> # NSIS can't handle 307 redirects, so force 301 redirects
20:42:09  <TrueBrain> I forgot about that :D
20:43:58  <frosch123> andythenorth: yeah, having to make a quick release to free yourself from getting drowned in bug reports sounds bad
20:44:19  <frosch123> spnda: so, stop advertising jgr, if you want to keep playing it. send newbies to stable :)
20:44:27  <TrueBrain> haha :D
20:44:31  <frosch123> keep jgr to yourself as long as you can
20:44:38  <TrueBrain> and hug him, a lot!
20:45:02  <spnda> sorry :))
20:45:25  <andythenorth> or we adopt JGR
20:45:44  <andythenorth> and switch to it as default
20:46:12  <glx> no, that would mean we have to support features unwanted in our code :)
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20:46:15  <TrueBrain> atm we already have issues keeping our own shit afloat .. not sure adopting a complete different codebase is the best move :P
20:46:59  <TrueBrain> but, looking for ways to make it easier for him to maintain the fork, and for us to lurk in some patches, that might be worth some time :)
20:47:05  * andythenorth is puzzled
20:47:14  <andythenorth> theory says that JGR should now be killing OpenTTD
20:47:25  <andythenorth> and the vocal part of the playerbase says it already has
20:47:31  <andythenorth> but 10% is not enough to cross a chasm
20:47:36  <glx> never listen the vocal part
20:47:42  <glx> basic rule
20:47:45  <TrueBrain> you see this with any game on reddit ;)
20:47:47  <spnda> Just checked download counts of JGR. Actually really not many...
20:47:53  <TrueBrain> reddit is the top 1% of gamers, some state :P
20:47:57  <andythenorth> might be stuck here*KIXz2tAVqXVREkyd.png
20:48:22  <frosch123> spnda: what are those stats?
20:48:43  <spnda> download counts of JGR
20:48:45  <spnda> Per version
20:48:49  <frosch123> from where?
20:48:52  <spnda> GitHub
20:48:59  <TrueBrain> I see it a lot with games like Path of Exile, Wolcen, etc ... on reddit the world is burning, while 95% of the players is simply having fun :P
20:48:59  <andythenorth> isn't it distributed in forums?
20:49:22  <dwfreed> vocal minority
20:49:29  <andythenorth> the pattern in the business books is that the 'more-features, less quality' fast moving tool kills the established high quality tool
20:49:30  <dwfreed> is the phrase you're looking for :)
20:49:32  <frosch123> andythenorth: forum download numbers are broken for 10 years :)
20:49:33  <andythenorth> we did it to TTDP
20:49:34  <glx> path of exile must die on each new season I guess
20:49:45  <spnda> andythenorth:  Yes, on the forums aswell. But only 180 for the newest version there either.
20:49:52  <andythenorth> that is super low
20:49:57  <andythenorth> can't be right
20:50:10  <spnda> I'll trust the GitHub API for the most part...
20:50:13  <andythenorth> there are at least 5 players in forums insisting on JGRPP
20:50:16  <frosch123> andythenorth: ofc the majority of players play ottd on mobile, its a way bigger market
20:50:21  <TrueBrain> glx: yeah, the house burnt down so many times :P
20:50:24  <_dp_> 'more-features, less quality' players don't play openttd :p
20:50:37  <spnda> Yeah,  personally I only know people on mobile (irl).
20:50:59  <TrueBrain> I still don't understand how you can play a game like OpenTTD on your mobile
20:51:09  <dwfreed> very carefully?
20:51:11  <TrueBrain> I simply cannot understand how it would play
20:51:11  <spnda> I just can't. The UI  drives me crazy.....
20:51:12  * dwfreed ducks
20:51:20  <spnda> But I'll be heading off.. bye
20:51:24  <TrueBrain> bye spnda  :)
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20:51:39  <_dp_> I think they just don't know there is a pc version
20:52:20  <frosch123> andythenorth: <- i have no idea who reads coop wiki to then go to ottd github, but forums are unpopular for sure
20:52:37  <dwfreed> I mean, it's all point and click, but some aspects, like building roads, would be so annoying
20:52:55  <TrueBrain> but but ... how?!
20:52:58  <glx> frosch123: funny the 2 last are the logs
20:52:58  <TrueBrain> just .. how?!
20:53:00  <nielsm> keep in mind more and more people will probably not have a (traditional) PC and only have a tablet/mobile
20:53:06  <glx> (IRC logs)
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20:53:30  <frosch123> glx: yes, those frrom webster are probably just me and my dynamic ip
20:53:37  <frosch123> no idea who reads the other log
20:53:58  <TrueBrain> it shows up when you google for openttd irc logs as first hit, I believe
20:55:10  <frosch123> dwfreed: there is a polyline building tool
20:55:36  <frosch123> clicking vertices, not dragging tiles
20:55:52  <_dp_> frosch123, not for roads though
20:56:06  <frosch123> who builds long roads?
20:57:23  <_dp_> idk
20:57:32  <_dp_> also does mobile version even have polyline?
20:57:57  <_dp_> I thought it's just vanilla with gui
20:58:06  <TrueBrain> I still would like to add the emscripten variant on the frontpage .. but it needs cloudsave to be useful :P
20:58:10  <frosch123> no idea, but whenever someone makes a gui-related patch, pelya complains why they did not use the patch already included in the android port :p
20:58:17  <TrueBrain> that would be fun .. that you can just play the game where-ever you are :D
21:03:49  <_dp_> idk, if they can't run regular version why would they want browser one?
21:03:59  <_dp_> especially it's not a mobile version
21:04:05  <TrueBrain> ease-of-access
21:04:09  <TrueBrain> quick
21:04:17  <_dp_> I see emscripten version more like a savegame/server viewer
21:04:20  <TrueBrain> but .. I could be wrong, and that makes it worth trying :D
21:04:38  <TrueBrain> just ... cloudsaves ... must .... fix ... infrastructure .. first ...
21:05:07  <frosch123> how about an interactive screenshot page?
21:05:19  <TrueBrain> Library/b'HBUQ'/b'\x8c\xe5^
21:05:20  <TrueBrain> oops :D
21:05:21  <frosch123> trains move on the screenshots, and you can continue the games :p
21:05:43  <_dp_> lol
21:05:51  <frosch123> now everyone knows your ip, and can hack you
21:06:01  <TrueBrain> :D
21:06:10  <glx> hey it's my ip
21:06:35  <frosch123> rude, tb using your computer to mine coins?
21:06:56  <TrueBrain> how else can I afford to work on OpenTTD?
21:07:00  * _dp_ wonders how many people here actually have something on that url
21:07:03  <glx> oh that's why I'm always short on RAM
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21:08:36  <TrueBrain>
21:08:38  <TrueBrain> that is a lot better :D
21:08:42  <Samu> do something about my PR's, they're piling up
21:08:54  <TrueBrain> are you paying us?
21:09:23  <Samu> things get forgotten :(
21:09:37  <TrueBrain> there is a difference between forgotten and ignored
21:10:19  <TrueBrain> you did notice that only producing PRs is not really helping, right? How about helping in other ways, like making sure other PRs are processed quicker, or help with release notes, or all the other tasks people are swamped with?
21:11:25  <Samu> me helping other PR's?
21:11:38  <TrueBrain> okay, content-server is feature complete it  seems .. that is good progress for a day :D
21:11:43  <andythenorth> maintaining openttd docs, newgrf docs, nml docs, dev docs, opengfx, etc etc
21:11:46  <andythenorth> testing other PRs
21:11:53  <andythenorth> diagnosing reported bugs
21:12:18  <andythenorth> I do all of that, draw sprites for game, AND make biggest, buggiest newgrfs
21:12:24  <andythenorth> not the most popular newgrfs though :(
21:12:31  <andythenorth> oof
21:12:33  <glx> hmm disgnosing bugs is not easy :)
21:12:35  <TrueBrain> helping out with Open Source projects is not only producing fixes for problems 0.1% of the people will notice. Sure, they should be fixed some day .. but how about all that other work that needs attending?
21:13:20  <TrueBrain> so please don't -demand- we should attend your PRs .. there is more in the world than just your little island .. and please start helping with OpenTTD in the broader sense
21:13:57  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I made a full export of BaNaNaS .. I think I will put it on a private repository for now, so possibly you and a few others can look over that I didn't screw up :)
21:14:08  <TrueBrain> I think what I did is fine, and won't trigger any authors in any way
21:14:10  <frosch123> sounds good
21:14:19  <glx> would be nice if someone could review #7270
21:14:24  <TrueBrain> and it really works well :D
21:14:24  <frosch123> i'll check it for sure
21:14:32  <TrueBrain> it is 40MB btw :P
21:15:06  <andythenorth> Samu: I guess there is completionism inside game src, which seems to interest you
21:15:13  <andythenorth> and then there is completionism of entire project
21:19:28  <Samu> i could test the double click to rename vehicle
21:20:16  <Samu> glx, can you help me with git bash again, I can no longer do git pr xxxx
21:20:24  <_dp_> on a topic of PR's... is there still any chance to have #7912 in 1.10?
21:20:56  <glx> Samu: you lost git config ?
21:21:03  <nielsm> _dp_ no, it's a savegame upgrade
21:21:08  <Samu> i formated c:, so i think i did
21:21:18  <glx> oh of course
21:21:24  <_dp_> :(
21:22:02  <andythenorth> I do
21:22:03  <andythenorth> git fetch origin pull/6753/head:6753
21:22:17  <andythenorth> per openttd README I think
21:22:33  <Samu> $ git pr 8008
21:22:33  <Samu> git: 'pr' is not a git command. See 'git --help'.
21:22:42  <glx> Samu: git config --global --edit
21:22:43  <frosch123> that pr fetch is less useful than i initially thought. you cannot push to that url
21:22:53  <glx>     pr = "!f() { git fetch -fu ${2:-$(git remote | grep ^upstream || echo origin)} refs/pull//head:pr/ && git checkout pr/; }; f"
21:22:53  <glx>     pr-clean = "!git for-each-ref refs/heads/pr/* --format='%(refname)' | while read ref ; do branch=${ref#refs/heads/} ; git branch -D $branch ; done"
21:22:53  <glx> in [alias] section
21:23:17  <frosch123> even fetching a second time after a pr update is hard
21:23:20  <TrueBrain> install the GitHub CLI client!
21:23:24  <TrueBrain> I read it is pretty good :)
21:23:31  <Samu> im now gonna keep that in a handy document
21:23:42  <glx> to update I run pr again
21:23:47  <nielsm> frosch123 yeah I usually add the submitter's fork as another remote and check out their branch
21:24:08  <TrueBrain> what happens if you put a monkey behind a keyboard for 2 days ... :P
21:24:14  <glx> same I add a remote and set the upstream
21:24:16  <TrueBrain> not done yet, but I just wanted to sync it to remote
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21:26:15  <Samu> thx, it works again
21:27:03  <frosch123> is that for backend horses?
21:27:29  <TrueBrain> yeah
21:28:21  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I just send you an invite
21:28:37  <TrueBrain> I did in the end import also older versions, as that made the code a lot less complicated. I think it is fine with the content there is
21:28:46  <TrueBrain> I filtered out authors that requested to be filtered out
21:29:07  <TrueBrain> the world is now very simple: savegame-only downloads are in the repository listed under the uniqueid
21:29:09  <TrueBrain> new-games are too
21:29:16  <TrueBrain> (and both marked as such)
21:29:33  <TrueBrain> some uniqueids are in global.yaml marked as "deprecated" .. those are uniqueids no longer used by the original author
21:29:40  <TrueBrain> (but they do have "savegame-only" versions)
21:29:52  <TrueBrain> let me know what you think; any and all feedback is welcome
21:29:53  <TrueBrain> and it is HUGE
21:30:37  <TrueBrain> (for older versions it adds description/tags/etc only if they differ from "global")
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21:31:37  <TrueBrain>
21:31:41  <TrueBrain> amount of content loaded in :)
21:33:16  <TrueBrain> if anyone else would like to review the BaNaNaS GitHub repository before I bring it public, please do let me know :)
21:33:20  <andythenorth> bloody newgrf authors :)
21:34:07  <TrueBrain> GitHub is really quick navigating this repo :P
21:34:14  <TrueBrain> 10k files
21:34:54  <TrueBrain> only 2 Base Sounds, lol
21:34:55  <Samu> hmm i can double click on a competitor road vehicle and try rename it, only to get an error saying it's not mine
21:35:16  <TrueBrain> Samu: and I think exactly those kind of observations should go in PR comments :)
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21:35:37  <Samu> I see :)
21:36:59  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #8008: Feature: Double-click to rename vehicle
21:37:42  <Samu> hmm the tooltip doesn't mention anything about double-click to rename
21:38:35  <frosch123> TrueBrain: the website says "724 newgrf", but there are 812 folders in the repo. are you telling me that 11% of newgrf are weird?
21:38:59  <TrueBrain> frosch123: 119 uniqueids (over all content-types) are no longer used
21:39:06  <TrueBrain> basically, the user uploaded a new version with a different uniqueid
21:39:20  <TrueBrain> let me check how many of those are in the NewGRF category
21:39:28  <frosch123> why did bananas even allow that?
21:39:35  <TrueBrain> shrug
21:39:41  <TrueBrain> I found more bugs in BaNaNaS :)
21:40:34  <TrueBrain> 79 of those were NewGRFs
21:40:38  <TrueBrain> @calc 724 + 79
21:40:38  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 803
21:40:49  <TrueBrain> so that leaves 9 .. let me see ..
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21:43:23  <frosch123> for scenarios there is also a big discrepancy
21:43:31  <frosch123> does it not match updates to scenarios?
21:44:24  <TrueBrain> scenarios are also a bit of a mess ... a lot of people there too uploaded new versions with new uniqueids
21:44:29  <TrueBrain> but I think BaNaNaS does this
21:44:32  <TrueBrain> (and musa doesn't)
21:44:42  <frosch123> uniqueids are not in control of the user for scenarios
21:45:09  <TrueBrain> musa allows you to set the same one you used before, basically
21:45:11  <TrueBrain> some people did
21:45:16  <frosch123> otoh, they do not really matter for scenarios, so maybe we shoudl fix them
21:45:57  <TrueBrain> okay, for NewGRFs the remaining difference are the silversurfer-dudes entries. They are not listed on the website (rightfully), but their folder is generated (as he was fine with the "savegame-only" part)
21:46:16  <TrueBrain> yeah, we can bring scenarios back under the same uniqueid, but: which? :D
21:46:19  <TrueBrain> the latest, I guess
21:46:49  <frosch123> yes, latest results in the best upgrade behaviour
21:47:23  <TrueBrain> yeah, 40 or so are indeed changes-of-unique-ids
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21:47:54  <TrueBrain> one issue with moving them, is that we still need to reserve those IDs from future use
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21:49:06  <frosch123> they are assigned by bananas, so not sure what algorithm you were planning for assingin g them
21:49:26  <frosch123> but using max-used-id+1 is easier than first-gap
21:49:27  <TrueBrain> did not consider it at all, but good point, we can just take a higher number than current
21:49:29  <TrueBrain> and it should be fine
21:50:10  <TrueBrain> more special code .. this migration script .. you really don't want to know :P
21:50:52  <frosch123> btw. i got the "first-gap" in the coding test in the interview of my current job
21:50:58  <TrueBrain> hmm .. for "savegame-only", compatibility can be removed, not?
21:51:11  <TrueBrain> "first-gap"?
21:51:34  <frosch123> find the first positive integer that is not in a vector
21:51:52  <TrueBrain> ah
21:51:55  <frosch123> at may old company we only tested whether people can find min/max
21:52:02  <TrueBrain> lol
21:52:05  <frosch123> but first gap is surprisingly harder
21:52:19  <TrueBrain> you have to write it from scratch?
21:52:52  <TrueBrain> so either you remember quicksort, or you have a slow-as-fuck algorithm :D
21:53:09  <TrueBrain> and I can never remember how quicksort worked again :P
21:53:13  <frosch123> the first-gap? the company has a godbolt-like webinterface, you can write code, compile and need to pass prepared unit tests
21:53:28  <TrueBrain> wow, that is ... impressively prepared :D
21:53:31  <frosch123> you start with the function prototype and empty body
21:53:43  <frosch123> TrueBrain: yep, i was impressed as well
21:53:51  <TrueBrain> did you pass the test? :D
21:54:06  <frosch123> at old company we showed code on slides, and they had to find standard bugs, like unintialized variables and dangling pointers
21:54:21  <TrueBrain> I hate those tests .. they tell so little
21:54:31  <frosch123> TrueBrain: it took more time to explain my solution than to write it
21:54:36  <TrueBrain> haha
21:54:46  <frosch123> TrueBrain: no, they tell a lot
21:55:01  <frosch123> i am the author of the coding test at my old company
21:55:15  <frosch123> its super easy questions who everyone with a little practice can answer in 5 seconds
21:55:35  <TrueBrain> owh, we used to have them where even I had to look 5 times to spot the issue
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21:55:46  <frosch123> but you immediately discover people who only wrote some code in their mandatory c lecture 5 years ago
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21:56:08  <TrueBrain> we just tell them to write a solver for a puzzle .. it will be at least 200 lines of Python
21:56:18  <TrueBrain> but yeah, you want to split those groups apart
21:56:20  <frosch123> that's a lot harder :p
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21:56:38  <TrueBrain> "Do you have any programming experience?" - "Yes, I wrote this for a class, and that for a class, and this for a class ..." - "okay, you can go now"
21:56:52  <LordAro> i can think of about 3 different solutions, depends on how fast you want it to be :p
21:56:56  <frosch123> in the find-bugs test, there were essentially two kind of people. those who failed, and those who laughed at the easyness
21:57:04  <frosch123> sometimes i thought we scare the good ones away :p
21:58:14  <frosch123> TrueBrain: i also know the coding test at the polish subsidiary of my old company
21:58:22  <frosch123> but that was really a terrible test
21:58:54  <frosch123> most of it were very basic questions about two code samples, then those questions were mixed, and people had to solve them under time pressure
21:59:16  <frosch123> so, the only thing that was actually tested was, whether people can sort the questions by code sample, before answering them
21:59:24  <frosch123> performing easy tasks under pressure
21:59:44  <frosch123> that explained a lot about the people that acutally got hired :s
22:00:07  <TrueBrain> I am happy we changed tactics, and we are fine with motivated people :) We can train them to be developers on the job :P (we also dropped the solver-test .. which I think is still a shame :P)
22:01:14  <LordAro> "can solve an algorithmic problem" is basically all you need to look for
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22:01:21  <LordAro> specific language knowledge is mostly redundant
22:01:27  <TrueBrain> it sure is
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22:01:41  <LordAro> (we write Ada, we'd never hire anyone if we wanted previous experience!)
22:01:44  <TrueBrain> I did .. 100+ interviews over the last few years .. you know within a few minutes if someone is a coder by just talking to them, really
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22:02:10  <TrueBrain> Ada, oef
22:02:34  <TrueBrain> people uploaded content to BaNaNaS! How dare they :P
22:02:41  <frosch123> in that case noone would have been a coder at my old company :p we mostly hired electrical engineers, who also had to know coding
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22:03:25  <LordAro> turns out you should hire for the job, not just something generic
22:03:29  <LordAro> who knew?
22:03:41  <LordAro> TrueBrain: Aerospace, comes with the territory
22:04:00  <TrueBrain> can't remember the last time I have seen Ada ... like really .. can't remember
22:04:01  <frosch123> i was at a pl-1 job interview, just for lolz
22:04:05  <LordAro> it's not that bad really
22:04:11  <LordAro> has nice concurrency stuff
22:04:30  <TrueBrain> owh, right, Pascal-look-alike
22:04:32  <TrueBrain> now I remember :D
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22:04:41  <LordAro> Pascal-with-concurrency-bolted-on
22:04:43  <LordAro> :)
22:04:46  <TrueBrain> I love Pascal
22:04:46  <frosch123> python is also pascal-look-alike
22:04:49  <TrueBrain> it is such a better language
22:05:22  <TrueBrain> if it is, not for the things I appreciate about Pascal :P
22:05:45  <LordAro>
22:06:15  <LordAro> at least we get to use "modern" Ada at work, and aren't stuck with something from the 80s like some of our clients
22:06:34  <frosch123> ok, the biggest failure of c (* being on the left), does not translate to python
22:10:12  <frosch123> in my youth there were a lof of myths about c being better than pascal. later i found a list on wikipedia listing the perceived advantages of c over pascal in the early days, and would be considered bad-practice today
22:10:36  <frosch123> +most of them
22:11:15  <TrueBrain> frosch123: pushed updates, Scenarios are now in the same folder
22:11:30  <frosch123> stuff like "zero terminates string are better than storing length" and "support for variadic functions"
22:11:55  <TrueBrain> its funny how these things go ;)
22:12:21  <frosch123> pulled updated, will check more tomorrow :)
22:12:38  <TrueBrain> but for "savegames-only" I can remove "compatability", right?
22:12:40  <TrueBrain> as it has no meaning there
22:13:07  <TrueBrain> scenarios with savegame-only also have no meaning btw, but .. it looks pretty or what-ever
22:14:51  <frosch123> never delete data that does not hurt :)
22:16:10  <TrueBrain> k, removed "compatability" when "savegames-only" is set
22:16:13  <TrueBrain> saves a lot of bytes
22:16:54  <LordAro> frosch123: i only recently learned that there actually is a difference between void foo(); and void foo(void);
22:17:03  <LordAro> i thought the latter was just some old C style thing
22:17:05  <TrueBrain> bad LordAro  :P
22:17:16  <frosch123> LordAro: the former is the gateway to hell in c
22:17:17  <TrueBrain> how often I made patches to fix that .. you really don't want to know :)
22:17:26  <TrueBrain> GCC warns for it these days
22:17:52  <LordAro> :)
22:18:00  <frosch123> LordAro: did you learn about void foo(a, b) int a,b; { ... }
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22:18:26  <LordAro> i only learned when i had to make a bit of our code as "compatible as possible" (C89+)
22:18:29  <LordAro> frosch123: aye
22:18:32  <LordAro> horrifying.
22:18:46  <TrueBrain> best C line: #define true ((__LINE__&15)!=15)
22:19:27  <LordAro> oh no
22:19:29  <frosch123> LordAro: i had most fun with missing prototype when my old company ported from 32bit to 64bit. previously pointers and integers were 4 byte, afterwards pointers were 64bit
22:19:45  <frosch123> suddenly the warning "missing prototype" resulted in crashes
22:19:52  <LordAro> :D
22:19:58  <LordAro> seen that several times
22:20:04  <frosch123> while engineers were too lazy to add #include, since they are just warnings
22:20:18  <TrueBrain> YOLOOOOOO :)
22:20:32  <LordAro> luckily, the C bits of our code is all guarded with -Werror :)
22:20:40  <LordAro> and i absolutely will not budge on that
22:20:56  <LordAro> our Ada is less nice, but it's slowly getting better...
22:20:56  <TrueBrain> -Wall -W... -W... -f... -f... -W...
22:21:02  <TrueBrain> there are just too many things to set in GCC :P
22:21:10  <frosch123> TrueBrain: even worse, there was a case of "#define if (a) if (0 | a)"
22:21:11  <LordAro> -funroll-loops best
22:21:13  <dwfreed> -Wall -Wextra -Werror
22:21:16  <dwfreed> :D
22:21:41  <frosch123> someone found a trick to make if (a = b) not compile, but later compilers warned about the weirdness, and people stated 2 days at the ifs
22:21:48  <TrueBrain> okay ... so I think this part of BaNaNaS rewrite is done .. I guess tomorrow I focus on an API to change/edit/upload stuff
22:21:50  <frosch123> *stared
22:21:56  <TrueBrain> still not looking forward to that, as ... Javascript ....
22:22:39  <frosch123> TrueBrain: do you know flexx?
22:22:49  <TrueBrain> no?
22:22:57  <frosch123>
22:23:11  <LordAro> a friend of mine wrote this (for fun) the other day
22:23:12  <FLHerne> TrueBrain: Right at this minute, I'm compiling my C code to JS
22:23:19  <frosch123> python gui framework that jit-transpiles to javascript or something
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22:23:20  <FLHerne> emscripten is amazing
22:23:30  <TrueBrain> frosch123: do we want that for OpenTTD? :)
22:23:30  <LordAro> FLHerne: sounds awful
22:23:58  <frosch123> TrueBrain: i never used it, because it was not packaed on redhat 6 :p
22:24:01  <FLHerne> More fun, because it's C code using GL ES 2.0, which is converted to WebGL
22:24:07  <TrueBrain> LordAro: I once write "microthreads" in C ... I will spare you the code snippets :P (but it worked!)
22:24:17  <FLHerne> Very cool, until it stops working, and then aaargh
22:24:38  <frosch123> FLHerne: why not webassmebly?
22:25:11  <TrueBrain> I completely missed the boat on shit like react etc etc .. so how am I going to do this as easy as possible ..
22:25:57  <TrueBrain> I want something simple, like: a list of versions on the left, settings on the right which you have to fill in, and an upload form for a new version
22:25:58  <LordAro> i think jsx is the in-thing nowadays?
22:26:10  <TrueBrain> that should be something really trivial to make, not?
22:26:11  <frosch123> LordAro: was your friend involved with boost coroutine?
22:26:13  <FLHerne> frosch123: Because some nutter is using Firefox 38
22:26:14  <TrueBrain> maybe just plain javascript ...
22:26:32  <LordAro> frosch123: i think they were just trying to make exceptions in C
22:26:45  <FLHerne> I don't know /why/ anyone would insist on a three-year-old version of an open-source browser
22:26:53  <FLHerne> But they won't change it
22:27:21  <TrueBrain> well, guess I first start with the API, and we will go from there or what-ever :P
22:27:58  <frosch123> i like the "make it work with curl fist" approach
22:28:05  <frosch123> +r
22:28:09  <TrueBrain> exactly :P
22:28:18  <TrueBrain> but you might miss things you need for frontend :P
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22:32:27  <frosch123> night
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22:36:02  <Eddi|zuHause> what comes after microthreads? nanothreads?
22:36:15  <Eddi|zuHause> gobigorgohomethreads?
22:37:28  <LordAro>
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22:37:40  <LordAro> only 23 years old
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22:44:17  <Samu> tomorrow i'll try writing some GS to test 7912
22:44:27  <Samu> have no time now
22:44:33  <Samu> cyas gn
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23:12:44  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] spauka commented on issue #7644: Mysteriously poor performance on macOS
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23:19:55  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] probonopd commented on issue #8019: AppImage support
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