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00:05:43 *** tokai has quit IRC 00:38:16 <Eddi|zuHause> close enough? https://ibin.co/5DidT9bHdHXg.png https://ibin.co/5Didlt3FlNe1.png 00:46:04 *** adikt-- has quit IRC 00:49:37 *** adikt has joined #openttd 02:32:21 <Eddi|zuHause> soo... the game managed to use up all my ram and swap... 02:49:02 *** glx has quit IRC 03:07:59 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 03:10:12 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 03:13:10 *** godbed has joined #openttd 03:16:36 *** debdog has quit IRC 03:36:02 *** tokai has joined #openttd 03:36:02 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 03:37:03 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] spauka updated pull request #8023: Fix #7644: (Cocoa) Manually set colorspace to sRGB https://git.io/Jvu4O 03:40:13 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 03:40:50 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] spauka commented on pull request #8023: Fix #7644: (Cocoa) Manually set colorspace to sRGB https://git.io/JvzJ8 03:41:00 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 03:42:53 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 04:11:11 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 04:18:48 *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC 04:33:26 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 04:33:26 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 04:39:53 *** tokai has quit IRC 04:49:00 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 05:15:54 *** tokai has joined #openttd 05:15:54 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 05:19:17 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 05:19:38 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 05:22:43 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 05:49:58 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 05:52:35 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 06:22:55 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 06:24:01 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 06:54:12 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 07:22:16 *** nielsm has quit IRC 07:43:18 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro requested changes for pull request #8023: Fix #7644: (Cocoa) Manually set colorspace to sRGB https://git.io/JvzLG 07:44:50 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 08:02:02 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 08:15:06 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 08:22:23 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 08:25:11 *** peter1138 has quit IRC 08:28:27 *** peter1138 has joined #openttd 08:28:27 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o peter1138 08:32:05 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 08:52:34 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 08:53:36 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 09:10:37 *** Smedles has quit IRC 09:11:53 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 09:20:59 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 09:20:59 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 09:23:47 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 09:26:18 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 09:27:32 <dihedral> Hello 09:27:53 *** tokai has quit IRC 09:39:18 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 09:44:34 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 09:44:39 *** orudge` is now known as orudge 09:55:12 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] spauka updated pull request #8023: Fix #7644: (Cocoa) Manually set colorspace to sRGB https://git.io/Jvu4O 09:56:26 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] spauka commented on pull request #8023: Fix #7644: (Cocoa) Manually set colorspace to sRGB https://git.io/JvzmK 09:56:38 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 09:59:08 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 10:10:38 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro dismissed a review for pull request #8023: Fix #7644: (Cocoa) Manually set colorspace to sRGB https://git.io/JvzLG 10:11:06 <LordAro> hmm, wrong niels 10:12:15 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge commented on pull request #8025: Remove: Support for macOS before 10.9 https://git.io/JvzYt 10:29:19 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 10:30:38 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 10:34:36 *** Lejving__ has quit IRC 10:46:01 *** tokai has joined #openttd 10:46:02 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 10:52:54 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 11:01:00 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 11:01:00 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge commented on pull request #8023: Fix #7644: (Cocoa) Manually set colorspace to sRGB https://git.io/JvzOV 11:01:37 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 11:31:57 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 11:32:30 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 12:02:42 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 12:07:28 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 12:07:28 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 12:14:24 *** tokai has quit IRC 12:26:01 <TrueBrain> hmm ... we have some uploads that changes content_type .. that is funny :) 12:26:18 <TrueBrain> SuperLib for example, used to be a GS Library, and is now an AI Library 12:26:38 <TrueBrain> wait, no 12:26:40 <TrueBrain> that is not what ishappening 12:26:45 <TrueBrain> they have the same uniqueid 12:26:49 <TrueBrain> and are in 2 categories .. ah 12:26:51 <TrueBrain> that makes more sense 12:33:40 *** Lejving has joined #openttd 12:40:36 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 12:51:15 <TrueBrain> the meta-data of BaNaNaS is 40 MiB ... that is a lot more data than I expected :o 13:06:37 *** Samu has joined #openttd 13:08:53 *** gelignite has quit IRC 13:10:46 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 13:11:19 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 13:19:30 <TrueBrain> "badbadbadbadbadbadbadbadbadbadba" <- cool MD5 :) 13:19:31 <TrueBrain> lol 13:21:03 <SpComb> haxxed 13:22:19 <LordAro> very suspicious :p 13:22:55 <LordAro> the one to actually look out for is d41d8cd... as that's the one for the empty string 13:23:17 <LordAro> which implies you've screwed up reading in the file some how 13:23:24 <TrueBrain> lol 13:23:34 <LordAro> (this may or may not have been an issue at work a while back) 13:23:52 <TrueBrain> okay, out of all of the content on BaNaNaS, I have 4 entries that appear to be valid but are not really 13:24:04 <TrueBrain> 2 of them because who-ever blacklisted the entries did a poor job (read: me) 13:24:08 <TrueBrain> 1 because of the above md5 13:24:16 <TrueBrain> and 1 because of duplicated uniqueid entries 13:24:29 <TrueBrain> that, out of 4700 or so, is not bad :D 13:25:18 <TrueBrain> how to find a folder that does NOT have a file in it? 13:25:49 <LordAro> find -type d -empty 13:26:04 <LordAro> (assuming GNU) 13:26:08 <TrueBrain> not empty, not has a specific file :D 13:26:34 <LordAro> ah 13:27:10 <TrueBrain> I will make my script do it :P 13:27:18 <TrueBrain> people did some bat-shit crazy stuff over the years 13:27:23 <LordAro> globbing + some cutting ? 13:27:52 <LordAro> oh no, the inverse 13:27:53 <TrueBrain> for example, invalidating one NewGRF with another .. which has another ID 13:27:55 <TrueBrain> which is fine, ofc 13:28:03 <TrueBrain> but a bit annoying 13:28:04 <LordAro> https://askubuntu.com/a/196966/121467 ? 13:28:28 <TrueBrain> lol, 'test', that is smart 13:28:43 *** tokai has joined #openttd 13:28:43 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 13:29:12 <TrueBrain> how the hell am I going to validate if all this information I now have is correct 13:29:17 <TrueBrain> YOLO? 13:30:02 <milek7> is that hash just server tricked into writing arbitrary string? 13:30:09 <milek7> i don't think preimage on md5 is possible? 13:30:39 <TrueBrain> no ,that is me manually changing an entry so I would remember it was bad 13:30:57 <TrueBrain> just .. 10 years ago 13:32:44 <TrueBrain> some people change the grfid on every upload 13:34:36 <TrueBrain> as we have a folder per uniqueid .. hmm .. these folders are basically "deprecated" 13:35:33 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 13:36:30 <TrueBrain> owh boy, more conflicits in GRF ids .. 13:37:07 <TrueBrain> basically ... if you upload a new version with a different GRFID, BaNaNaS releases the old GRFID for others to upload to 13:37:08 <TrueBrain> that clearly is a bug 13:37:15 <TrueBrain> but I now have 3 cases of this 13:37:19 <TrueBrain> 1 is totally irrelevant 13:37:22 <TrueBrain> the other 2 .. hmm .. 13:38:38 <TrueBrain> hmm .. does the "select upgradable" work for those cases ... 13:38:40 <TrueBrain> I guess not? 13:39:26 <TrueBrain> so if you had that GRF installed, and you clicked upgrade in the UI, you get another GRF 13:39:27 <TrueBrain> lol 13:39:28 <TrueBrain> oops? :D 13:40:44 <TrueBrain> ah, luck has it .. 0 downloads of those GRFs 13:40:53 <TrueBrain> so .. I am just going to make them inactive 13:41:29 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 13:42:59 <TrueBrain> 195,797,869 downloads of online content (total number) .. and it is online for 11 years .. so .. 13:43:04 <TrueBrain> @calc 195797869 / 11 / 12 / 30 13:43:04 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 49443.9063131 13:43:12 <TrueBrain> 50000 downloads per day from the online content :P 13:43:37 <TrueBrain> (and that is only counting via the OpenTTD client) 13:43:45 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 13:43:58 <LordAro> nice. 13:46:55 <TrueBrain> hmm .. how to keep stats in the new setup ... I dunno yet 13:50:20 <LordAro> would be a shame to lose them 13:50:35 <TrueBrain> fully agree 13:50:44 <TrueBrain> we used to have stats per hour, but that table kept crashing :P 13:50:56 <TrueBrain> so that information hasn't worked in years 13:51:08 <TrueBrain> but knowing almost 200M downloads happened, is just nice to know, I guess 13:51:42 <TrueBrain> tempted to setup an InfluxDB :P 13:51:47 <TrueBrain> anyway, back to what I was doing ... 13:55:41 *** Flygon has quit IRC 14:01:25 <TrueBrain> 119 GRFID are used but deprecated by another ID 14:01:27 <TrueBrain> such a waste :P 14:02:33 <TrueBrain> seems many of them had almost no downloads 14:03:33 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: that seems like a totally natural statistics 14:03:43 <TrueBrain> how do you mean? :) 14:03:54 <Eddi|zuHause> like, 50% of the words in shakespeares works have been used exactly once 14:04:03 <TrueBrain> lol 14:04:12 <TrueBrain> okay, I think my export is valid now ... 14:04:21 <TrueBrain> only time will tell if that is true, but okay 14:05:17 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a side effect of the 80-20 rule (pareto principle) 14:06:06 <Eddi|zuHause> pr. bpth are symptoms of the same distribution 14:10:57 <peter1138> Yay, Mono to .Net Core conversion works. Well, it runs at least. 14:11:27 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: if it compiles, ship it. 14:11:33 <peter1138> Exactly! 14:12:40 <TrueBrain> hmm ... another "fun" quirk: if I set a dependency of a NewGRF to your NewGRF, and you say: my NewGRF should no longer be available for new games 14:12:44 <TrueBrain> it still is available for new games :P 14:13:10 <peter1138> That's probably how it's meant to work. 14:13:17 <peter1138> Awkward though. 14:13:28 <peter1138> Available trumps not available. Hmm. 14:13:39 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that's why a few newgrf confusingly are available in two versions 14:14:06 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 14:14:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it's also if a scenario sets it as dependency? 14:14:19 <TrueBrain> any dependency, yes 14:14:40 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 14:15:31 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it should hide these by default, and magically appear in the selection if the dependency-inducing item is selected 14:16:28 <TrueBrain> I was more thinking: don't show it as dependency ever in the UI, but at download time, download the older version anyway? 14:16:36 <TrueBrain> not sure ... this is not fully trivial :D 14:17:42 <Eddi|zuHause> that's vaguely similar to what i tried to say 14:18:13 <TrueBrain> differens between never showing, and magically showing, yes :) 14:20:32 <TrueBrain> self._md5sum_mapping = defaultdict(lambda: defaultdict(dict)) 14:20:34 <TrueBrain> you got to love Python 14:21:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i've never used defaultdict 14:21:57 <TrueBrain> its so beautiful 14:21:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i probably should have, in some places 14:22:19 <Eddi|zuHause> but i'll forget when i need it 14:26:25 <TrueBrain> when ever you do: if a not in b: b[a] = ... 14:26:29 <TrueBrain> you need a defaultdict :) 14:28:21 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. and i definitely needed that before 14:28:45 <TrueBrain> ghehe, found a funny issue with YAML 14:29:03 <TrueBrain> a user had something like: \stext\n\stext\ntext 14:29:05 <TrueBrain> as description 14:29:21 <TrueBrain> so in YAML that is: description: |\n\s\s\stext\n\s\s\stext\n\s\stext\n 14:29:39 <TrueBrain> the problem is ... it was thinking: the next lines starting with 3 spaces is part of my description 14:29:46 <TrueBrain> and as the last line was only 2 spaces ... 14:29:56 <TrueBrain> you got to love users, with random spaces in random places 14:30:59 <TrueBrain> omg, all data loaded in the content server ... wtf is this :o 14:31:46 <Eddi|zuHause> when it looks like you've won, it's probably a deception 14:32:50 <TrueBrain> it .. really works .. 14:34:39 <TrueBrain> okay, now I need a savegame with an old GRF 14:34:46 <TrueBrain> suggestions? 14:35:24 <Eddi|zuHause> some random ticket? 14:35:30 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 14:35:36 <andythenorth> all but one, done! https://wiki.openttd.org/NewGRF_Specification_Status#OpenTTD_1.10 14:35:39 <Eddi|zuHause> openttdcoop? 14:35:45 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: give me a savegame with an old GRF ! :P 14:36:04 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: all mine use unreleased grfs, no use to you 14:36:14 <andythenorth> coop has a savegame archive somewhere? 14:37:06 <Eddi|zuHause> all mine have dbsetxl 0.82, which is... old... but probably not helpful for your test :p 14:37:18 <TrueBrain> old, and not latest 14:37:21 <TrueBrain> that is what I need :P 14:38:51 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/OpenTTD/MasterServer/blob/a6be9858f385fd0e092836682a25c5142cf9923e/src/shared/mysql.cpp#L443 <- that is too much copy/paste :D Lol 14:38:55 <andythenorth> we could make some savegames :P 14:39:10 <TrueBrain> yeah, I am looking for an old GRF now, which has a newer version :) 14:39:25 <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/ 14:39:38 <andythenorth> or http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/iron-horse/releases/ 14:39:47 <andythenorth> all the released versions will also be on bananas 14:39:57 <TrueBrain> sweet, tnx 14:40:08 <andythenorth> hth 14:42:22 <TrueBrain> there is a function FillContentDetails and FindContentDetails 14:42:26 <TrueBrain> that is not confusing AT ALL 14:42:38 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i thought i once uploaded a game to flyspray, but seems like i uploaded it to some personal webspace and just linked it. so that is not accessible anymore 14:48:09 <TrueBrain> funny ... I did not quote the MD5 in YAML 14:48:15 <TrueBrain> so md5sum: ab1234 is fine 14:48:21 <TrueBrain> md5sum: 1234 becomes a number :D 14:48:25 <TrueBrain> stupid me, forgetting to quote :P 14:51:23 <andythenorth> BBL 14:51:24 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 14:53:28 <TrueBrain> so, "fun fact" .. the files andy has for Iron Horse is not what is uploaded to BaNaNaS .. at least not for 1.2.0 :P 14:53:30 <TrueBrain> ffs :P 14:55:06 <TrueBrain> seems they all have different md5sums 14:55:26 <TrueBrain> yeah .. they are all different 14:55:36 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 14:55:51 <TrueBrain> I need andy to explain himself :D 14:57:20 <TrueBrain> same for FIRS 15:02:58 <TrueBrain> grfid agrees with me 15:03:06 <TrueBrain> what ever andy puts up on bundles, is not what he uploads to BaNaNaS 15:03:10 <TrueBrain> sneaky 15:04:27 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 15:04:32 <andythenorth> oof JGRPP bingo failed on reddit 15:04:34 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: EXPLAIN YOURSELF! :P 15:04:40 <andythenorth> not mentioned in top 3 :( 15:04:44 <TrueBrain> the GRFs on bundles are different from what you upload to BaNaNaS 15:04:45 <LordAro> TrueBrain: summoning worked this time 15:04:49 <TrueBrain> wtf is that about? 15:04:53 <andythenorth> was all the way down on comment 6 15:04:57 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: wat wat? 15:05:05 <andythenorth> which grf, what's different? 15:05:08 <TrueBrain> I downloaded the tar from the URL you gave for Iron Horse 15:05:15 <andythenorth> YAIR YAIR 15:05:25 <andythenorth> there might be some lolz incoming 15:05:28 <TrueBrain> and grfid -m returns an MD5 that is different from the one on BaNaNaS 15:05:40 <TrueBrain> so you are being sneaky?! 15:05:59 <Samu> i am trying to optimize / simplify the code for #8009, and for some reason i'm getting an increase in time needed 15:06:06 <Samu> :( 15:06:25 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: this sounds lolz 15:08:44 <andythenorth> I have to do some $$££ work, but I am sure there is an explanation :P 15:08:58 <TrueBrain> keep running 15:09:13 <andythenorth> are they the same grfs? 15:09:16 <TrueBrain> what you uploaded has version r914M instead of 1.2.0 15:09:18 <TrueBrain> that explains ;) 15:09:26 <andythenorth> ah yeah that will just be clown shoes 15:09:28 <TrueBrain> so the version string inside is different :) 15:09:34 <andythenorth> 9 out of 10 times I brown bag the release 15:09:47 <andythenorth> oof 15:10:05 <andythenorth> I EVEN HAVE A CHECKLIST 15:10:36 <TrueBrain> okay, this works :D w00p 15:10:48 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 15:10:57 <TrueBrain> it even tells the correct version 15:10:58 <TrueBrain> sweet 15:11:40 <TrueBrain> right, next step done. Now the HTTP part .. shouldn't be hard 15:12:05 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 15:21:24 <Samu> i don't understand this. in debug build i was getting worse times, in release build, i expected the same, but nop, the optimisations I tried actually improve times 15:21:35 <Samu> debug build lies 15:22:17 <Samu> gonna retry debug again 15:25:34 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 15:34:24 <Samu> interesting https://pastebin.com/2iA1z4WX 15:35:02 <Samu> wow pastebin popup adds are annoying... 15:35:50 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 15:36:01 <Samu> i double checked these us times 15:36:16 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 15:55:36 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 15:55:36 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 15:56:49 <Samu> i found a "not really a bug" with npf. it StationType for Oilrigs are STATION_DOCK. It should be STATION_OILRIG 15:57:01 <Samu> but I suppose it doesn't matter, ships still find their way 15:58:44 <Samu> fstd->station_type = v->current_order.IsType(OT_GOTO_STATION) ? STATION_DOCK : STATION_BUOY; 15:58:46 <Samu> found it 16:02:03 <Samu> case STATION_DOCK: 16:02:03 <Samu> case STATION_OILRIG: 16:02:03 <Samu> *ta = this->docking_station; 16:02:17 <Samu> heh, mere luck that it doesn't get broken 16:02:32 <Samu> they fall into the same category 16:02:43 *** tokai has quit IRC 16:04:49 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd 16:09:29 *** Samu_ has joined #openttd 16:10:32 <peter1138> Luck or design? o_O 16:13:26 *** Samu has quit IRC 16:21:44 <Samu_> m_destTile = CalcClosestStationTile(m_destStation, v->tile, GetStationType(Station::Get(m_destStation)->xy)); 16:21:50 <Samu_> should be this 16:22:08 <Samu_> yapf also assumes STATION_DOCK for oilrigs 16:22:28 <Samu_> i was also assuming that too, got to fix? 16:22:34 *** arikover has joined #openttd 16:22:56 <Samu_> btw, what's the difference between BaseStation and Station? 16:23:03 <Samu_> what should I use here 16:38:11 <Samu_> I just realised this is also wrong :( 16:38:34 <Samu_> can't get it by ->xy 16:38:45 <Samu_> must think 16:38:54 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:42:16 <Samu_> there's StationFacility and StationType 16:42:27 <Samu_> I require StationType 16:46:43 <Samu_> I can't properly get StationType if I only have the StationID? 16:56:40 <nielsm> Station is the class for the kind of stations where vehicles can stop and transfer cargo 16:56:49 <nielsm> BaseStation is the parts common between Waypoint and Station 17:08:15 *** Progman has quit IRC 17:08:54 <Samu_> ah 17:11:59 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] msikma commented on issue #7644: Mysteriously poor performance on macOS https://git.io/fjii3 17:16:12 <Samu_> screw it, STATION_DOCK it is 17:16:22 <Samu_> too much work to make it right 17:16:34 <Samu_> after all, it still works 17:17:00 *** Samu_ has quit IRC 17:17:16 *** Samu has joined #openttd 17:18:52 *** cHawk has quit IRC 17:36:37 *** spnda has joined #openttd 17:37:14 <spnda> I just saw some updates on those precombined or anti90° railtypes on the forums, looks neat. Also what about https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Changes_0.5? When's that being updated? 17:42:05 *** tokai has joined #openttd 17:42:05 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 17:42:32 <Samu> all right, i managed to optimise code for NPF as well, but not as much as YAPF 17:43:25 <Samu> nfp: if (DistanceManhattan(fstd->dest_coords, fstd->v->tile) < 16) { 17:43:45 <Samu> yapf: if (Yapf().GetDestinationDistanceManhattan() < 16) { 17:44:21 <Samu> GetDestinationDistanceManhattan is an already computed DistanceManhattan 17:44:37 <Samu> it just retrieves a number 17:45:03 <Samu> for npf, it has to go through DistanceManhattan function every node :( 17:45:59 <Samu> distancemanhattan is thus computed once per pathfind instance for yapf 17:46:14 <Samu> oh well, gonna PR 17:49:03 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 17:49:08 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8009: Change #8001: Don't add docking tile cost when ships are still too far from their destination https://git.io/Jv41T 17:57:24 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 18:03:59 <Samu> cool, it filters out ship depots and buoys 18:04:15 <Samu> this line here https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8009/files#diff-fa888affc2f63e5d03e59e88c34d30f3R607 18:23:13 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 18:29:03 *** glx has joined #openttd 18:29:03 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 18:29:09 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 18:59:58 *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC 19:00:07 *** arikover has quit IRC 19:03:14 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 19:03:18 <andythenorth> yo 19:03:53 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 19:05:08 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 19:06:26 <andythenorth> Samu: tomorrow I will be able to tell you if Greta is an animatronic fake 19:06:28 <andythenorth> or real 19:06:41 <TrueBrain> so exciting! 19:06:42 * andythenorth suspects she's real, but maybe I'm just sheeple 19:07:17 <andythenorth> if I had a longer lifespan, I would dedicate 10% of it to fucking with conspiracy theories about conspiracy theories 19:07:22 <andythenorth> but as it is, pixels 19:07:34 <andythenorth> frosch123: https://wiki.openttd.org/NewGRF_Specification_Status o_O 19:07:40 <andythenorth> 99% 19:12:45 <frosch123> hoi 19:13:09 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 19:13:12 <andythenorth> now we can make a mess again? o_O 19:20:06 <frosch123> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VariationalAction2/Roadtypes https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VariationalAction2/Tramtypes <- these pages should be merged, they will always have the same variables, like vehicles 19:20:29 <frosch123> same with action 0 19:20:41 <frosch123> not sure whether it also makes sense to merge railtypes 19:21:02 <frosch123> or whether to separate it like vehicles: tracktype, rail-specific, road/tram-specific 19:21:42 <frosch123> oh, also action3. someone was very active with copy/paste 19:23:14 <frosch123> why do people have such issues with > and ≥ ? 19:23:36 <frosch123> "Roadtypes are available only in OpenTTD > 1.10" 19:24:20 <andythenorth> NML merged the type table pages https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Railtypetable-Roadtypetable-Tramtypetable 19:25:29 <TrueBrain> frosch123: another year before NRT? :P 19:25:36 <frosch123> but i see, you fixed all the "?" in the specs 19:26:38 <andythenorth> I fixed the ones I saw 19:31:22 <frosch123> hmm, where to list the road/tramtype labels 19:31:24 <andythenorth> yeah merging tramtype and roadtype but not railtype seems odd 19:31:27 <andythenorth> hmm 19:31:33 <andythenorth> it's all potato / potato though 19:31:38 <frosch123> it makes no sense to create two pages for a single label each :p 19:31:44 <andythenorth> aren't there about 10 railtype pages? 19:32:10 <andythenorth> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/RailtypeLabels 19:32:17 <frosch123> the nml roadtype page is wrong, it lists ELRD and RAIL 19:32:20 <andythenorth> oh it's just this that confuses me I remember https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Standardized_Railtype_Scheme 19:32:53 <frosch123> i think i rename the page to tracktypelabels, and add them all 19:33:02 <andythenorth> nml roadtype label entry also has a wrong link 19:33:06 <andythenorth> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/index.php?title=RoadtypeLabels&action=edit&redlink=1 19:33:28 <andythenorth> oof I should eat dinner or something, can't brain 19:34:24 *** spnda has quit IRC 19:35:22 <frosch123> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/index.php?title=NML%3ARailtypetable-Roadtypetable-Tramtypetable&type=revision&diff=4024&oldid=4004 <- good wording for tram? 19:35:56 <andythenorth> works for me 19:49:16 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 19:49:16 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 19:55:45 <frosch123> the nml page lies 19:55:53 <frosch123> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Railtypetable-Roadtypetable-Tramtypetable 19:55:54 *** tokai has quit IRC 19:56:21 <frosch123> it's true that rail/road/tram/cargo labels are separate in ottd, but within an nml file nml cannot distinguish them 19:56:32 <andythenorth> oh yes 19:56:43 *** tokai has joined #openttd 19:56:43 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 19:56:54 <frosch123> no idea how to word that :) 19:57:48 <andythenorth> you could fail this ticket and leave notes :P https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/issues/46 19:57:55 <andythenorth> and I will go round again and fix more 19:58:18 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 20:01:30 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd 20:01:32 *** spnda has joined #openttd 20:03:43 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 20:04:38 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 20:04:56 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 20:05:00 <TrueBrain> yippie, dependencies also work \o/ :D That wasn't easy ... but it works! :D 20:05:53 <TrueBrain> frosch123: found a nice .. issue, we need to solve some day .. a dependency link can make older versions of content appear in the UI :) 20:06:48 <TrueBrain> and nothing the content-server can do about it, as the client fetches all the dependencies to show them 20:07:14 <TrueBrain> so scenarios can keep NewGRFs visible that are set to "savegames-only" 20:11:38 <frosch123> TrueBrain: yes, that is known. user complained about that 20:12:01 <TrueBrain> here I was, hoping to tell you something new :( 20:12:08 <frosch123> when you download multiple ai, they select libraries in all kind of versions 20:12:19 <TrueBrain> SuperLib is on the list like 7 times 20:12:26 <TrueBrain> not ordered by version, ofc :D 20:13:42 <frosch123> i think there was more stuff broken in ottd about dependencies, but i cant quite remember 20:14:31 <frosch123> i dont think they were fixed, but with lesser ai dev activity, they probably appear less often 20:14:47 <andythenorth> funny how broken it is, but successful 20:14:52 <andythenorth> like most of the internet :P 20:15:09 <TrueBrain> yeah ... 200M ingame downloads over 11 years 20:15:18 <TrueBrain> (BaNaNaS launched in Jan 2009 as beta) 20:15:31 <TrueBrain> that is 50000 ingame downloads per day 20:15:32 <TrueBrain> insane 20:16:00 <glx> and that includes "select all" downloads 20:16:11 *** godbed has quit IRC 20:16:44 <frosch123> well, compared to 50000 download of ottd per month, that makes 30 bananas downoads per ottd download 20:17:04 <frosch123> though i have no idea how often ottd is downloaded now, stats broke in 2014? 20:17:19 <TrueBrain> I still have to find something to parse the new access logs 20:17:35 <glx> and many probably get it via their package manager 20:19:56 <frosch123> but i don't think we ever reached the 200k downloads of first month of 1.0 ever again :p 20:20:23 <TrueBrain> well, we can get there again if we like .. but things would need to change for that :) 20:20:37 <frosch123> nah, users are annoying 20:21:12 <glx> sometimes they submit good bug reports ;) 20:21:17 <spnda> I wonder how many downloads JGR gets 20:21:21 <glx> on the first try 20:21:32 <TrueBrain> spnda: I wonder too :) 20:21:55 <TrueBrain> lol .... I made a minor change to the "internal" id of the content server 20:21:57 <TrueBrain> it is send as an uint32 20:22:02 <TrueBrain> but OpenTTD client makes an int32 out of it 20:22:07 <TrueBrain> so now I am seeing negative values :D 20:22:08 <glx> oups 20:22:11 <TrueBrain> OWH HAPPY DAYS 20:22:13 <frosch123> extrapolating from online servers, it's as popular as nightly sued to be 20:22:36 <frosch123> nightly had about 6% downloads compared to stable 20:22:39 <TrueBrain> I still hope we can lend a bit more of our infrastructure to help out JGR 20:22:53 <TrueBrain> I believe he asked about that a while ago .. I asked a few questions back,never got a reply, if memory serves me well 20:23:06 <frosch123> spnda: so, my guess is about 100/day 20:23:09 <glx> not having nightlies for some time probably reduce their popularity 20:23:15 <spnda> frosch123: We could ask him 20:23:35 <frosch123> are you sure he has stats? 20:23:39 <TrueBrain> while at it, tell him OpenTTD's infrastructure is his too :P 20:23:43 <spnda> Assuming they download over the GitHub repository 20:24:13 *** Progman has joined #openttd 20:24:47 <spnda> If anyone's part of the OpenTTD group on GitHub: 20:24:48 <spnda> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/graphs/traffic/ 20:24:56 <spnda> I'm sure you can get some info there 20:26:56 <TrueBrain> okay, lets take 2 days ago ... download attempts (not files, it goes in batches, so you can estimate this as amount of clients being active) 1500 for 1.9.3, 500 for 1.10.0-RC1, 150 for 1.8.0, 50 for jgrpp-0.33.2 .. in total jgrpp is .. 150, I would say 20:27:00 <TrueBrain> so that is pretty darn good tbfh 20:27:24 <TrueBrain> download attempts via ingame content thingy btw 20:27:35 <frosch123> 300 unique clones in 2 weeks sounds a lot 20:27:45 <TrueBrain> some people still use 1.1.5 :D Lol 20:28:04 <TrueBrain> 1.0.4-RC1 20:28:09 <TrueBrain> 1.0.1 .. even older 20:28:26 <TrueBrain> lets run this on the last 90 days ... 20:28:41 <glx> OS would be interresting for these old versions 20:28:47 <spnda> Actually, that was a bad link 20:28:51 <spnda> There's a better one 20:28:57 <TrueBrain> not reported, so I don't know that glx 20:29:07 <milek7> i bet it's win xp 20:29:34 <glx> hmm 1.8.0 is winXP compatible IIRC 20:29:34 <frosch123> there were complains that we dropped 98 last year 20:29:43 <TrueBrain> 177k 1.9.3, 23k 1.10.0-beta2, 15k 1.10.0-beta1, 15k 1.8.0 .. lol 20:30:06 <TrueBrain> 12k jgrpp (over various of versions) 20:30:40 <TrueBrain> that are people downloading 1 or more items from the ingame content listing 20:30:48 <TrueBrain> damn ... OpenTTD is always more popular than I realise .. 20:31:21 <frosch123> so we have about 100k players? assuming that people only visit bananas twice in 90 days 20:31:34 <glx> frosch123: but old mingw/msys doesn't support our code, and I don't know is mingw-w64/msys2 works for win9x 20:32:05 <TrueBrain> frosch123: well, people that use the online content 20:32:10 <TrueBrain> we ofc also have people not doing that 20:32:13 <frosch123> glx: i know, i explcitily told tb to drop any platform that does not compile c++14 20:32:32 <TrueBrain> 134k unique IPs that used the ingame content thingy in the last 90 days 20:32:43 <TrueBrain> 10% of that is jgrpp 20:33:03 <spnda> Idk, I think this will work.... but it requires auth. https://api.github.com/repos/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/releases/182 20:33:11 <andythenorth> only 10% 20:33:13 <andythenorth> ? 20:33:17 <spnda> that'sforthe newest release, 1.10.0-RC1 20:33:25 <glx> spnda: only source package is on github 20:33:43 <spnda> well, it was an example 20:33:52 <spnda> could use it to see JGR's downlaods 20:35:07 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: that use the ingame content, yes. At least deduplicating IPs suggest that :) 20:35:16 <TrueBrain> take it all with a grain of salt, ofc 20:35:22 <frosch123> the referral sites are weird. forums are pretty unpopular 20:35:26 <TrueBrain> but that are a lot of players, damn ... 20:36:17 <spnda> Newest JGR was downloaded 91 times lol 20:36:34 <TrueBrain> the problem with jgrpp currently, is that you need to know about it to find it 20:36:38 <TrueBrain> I would love for it to be more visible 20:36:47 <spnda> Yeah 20:36:56 <TrueBrain> like some sort of auto-updater ingame where you can select it, or what-ever 20:37:04 <TrueBrain> or on www.openttd.org 20:37:07 <TrueBrain> or what-ever 20:38:36 <frosch123> TrueBrain: "helping with creating binaries" is a different thing to "sending newbies your way" 20:39:19 <glx> hehe it can backfire and increase number of invalid bug reports 20:39:25 <andythenorth> I would expect JGR is > 10% 20:39:33 <frosch123> i would not take it for granted that a single-maintainer is happy about getting lots of users at some point 20:39:44 <TrueBrain> so maybe that needs fixing too :) 20:39:53 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: information bias, I am afraid 20:39:55 <andythenorth> maintainer burnout is never obvious until they break 20:40:01 <TrueBrain> just because you read a lot about something, doesn't make it more popular ;) 20:41:01 <andythenorth> I don't know JGR well enough to know if this is fine, or frustration https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1229470#p1229470 20:41:24 <andythenorth> but JGR thread recieves ~some level of general OpenTTD bug reports and requests 20:42:07 <TrueBrain> # NSIS can't handle 307 redirects, so force 301 redirects 20:42:09 <TrueBrain> I forgot about that :D 20:43:58 <frosch123> andythenorth: yeah, having to make a quick release to free yourself from getting drowned in bug reports sounds bad 20:44:19 <frosch123> spnda: so, stop advertising jgr, if you want to keep playing it. send newbies to stable :) 20:44:27 <TrueBrain> haha :D 20:44:31 <frosch123> keep jgr to yourself as long as you can 20:44:38 <TrueBrain> and hug him, a lot! 20:45:02 <spnda> sorry :)) 20:45:25 <andythenorth> or we adopt JGR 20:45:44 <andythenorth> and switch to it as default 20:46:12 <glx> no, that would mean we have to support features unwanted in our code :) 20:46:12 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 20:46:12 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 20:46:15 <TrueBrain> atm we already have issues keeping our own shit afloat .. not sure adopting a complete different codebase is the best move :P 20:46:59 <TrueBrain> but, looking for ways to make it easier for him to maintain the fork, and for us to lurk in some patches, that might be worth some time :) 20:47:05 * andythenorth is puzzled 20:47:14 <andythenorth> theory says that JGR should now be killing OpenTTD 20:47:25 <andythenorth> and the vocal part of the playerbase says it already has 20:47:31 <andythenorth> but 10% is not enough to cross a chasm 20:47:36 <glx> never listen the vocal part 20:47:42 <glx> basic rule 20:47:45 <TrueBrain> you see this with any game on reddit ;) 20:47:47 <spnda> Just checked download counts of JGR. Actually really not many... https://imgur.com/a/nk670NI 20:47:53 <TrueBrain> reddit is the top 1% of gamers, some state :P 20:47:57 <andythenorth> might be stuck here https://miro.medium.com/max/2400/0*KIXz2tAVqXVREkyd.png 20:48:22 <frosch123> spnda: what are those stats? 20:48:43 <spnda> download counts of JGR 20:48:45 <spnda> Per version 20:48:49 <frosch123> from where? 20:48:52 <spnda> GitHub 20:48:59 <TrueBrain> I see it a lot with games like Path of Exile, Wolcen, etc ... on reddit the world is burning, while 95% of the players is simply having fun :P 20:48:59 <andythenorth> isn't it distributed in forums? 20:49:22 <dwfreed> vocal minority 20:49:29 <andythenorth> the pattern in the business books is that the 'more-features, less quality' fast moving tool kills the established high quality tool 20:49:30 <dwfreed> is the phrase you're looking for :) 20:49:32 <frosch123> andythenorth: forum download numbers are broken for 10 years :) 20:49:33 <andythenorth> we did it to TTDP 20:49:34 <glx> path of exile must die on each new season I guess 20:49:45 <spnda> andythenorth: Yes, on the forums aswell. But only 180 for the newest version there either. 20:49:52 <andythenorth> that is super low 20:49:57 <andythenorth> can't be right 20:50:10 <spnda> I'll trust the GitHub API for the most part... 20:50:13 <andythenorth> there are at least 5 players in forums insisting on JGRPP 20:50:16 <frosch123> andythenorth: ofc the majority of players play ottd on mobile, its a way bigger market 20:50:21 <TrueBrain> glx: yeah, the house burnt down so many times :P 20:50:24 <_dp_> 'more-features, less quality' players don't play openttd :p 20:50:37 <spnda> Yeah, personally I only know people on mobile (irl). 20:50:59 <TrueBrain> I still don't understand how you can play a game like OpenTTD on your mobile 20:51:09 <dwfreed> very carefully? 20:51:11 <TrueBrain> I simply cannot understand how it would play 20:51:11 <spnda> I just can't. The UI drives me crazy..... 20:51:12 * dwfreed ducks 20:51:20 <spnda> But I'll be heading off.. bye 20:51:24 <TrueBrain> bye spnda :) 20:51:28 *** spnda has quit IRC 20:51:39 <_dp_> I think they just don't know there is a pc version 20:52:20 <frosch123> andythenorth: http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/gh_referrals.png <- i have no idea who reads coop wiki to then go to ottd github, but forums are unpopular for sure 20:52:37 <dwfreed> I mean, it's all point and click, but some aspects, like building roads, would be so annoying 20:52:55 <TrueBrain> but but ... how?! 20:52:58 <glx> frosch123: funny the 2 last are the logs 20:52:58 <TrueBrain> just .. how?! 20:53:00 <nielsm> keep in mind more and more people will probably not have a (traditional) PC and only have a tablet/mobile 20:53:06 <glx> (IRC logs) 20:53:09 *** tokai has quit IRC 20:53:30 <frosch123> glx: yes, those frrom webster are probably just me and my dynamic ip 20:53:37 <frosch123> no idea who reads the other log 20:53:58 <TrueBrain> it shows up when you google for openttd irc logs as first hit, I believe 20:55:10 <frosch123> dwfreed: there is a polyline building tool 20:55:36 <frosch123> clicking vertices, not dragging tiles 20:55:52 <_dp_> frosch123, not for roads though 20:56:06 <frosch123> who builds long roads? 20:57:23 <_dp_> idk 20:57:32 <_dp_> also does mobile version even have polyline? 20:57:57 <_dp_> I thought it's just vanilla with gui 20:58:06 <TrueBrain> I still would like to add the emscripten variant on the frontpage .. but it needs cloudsave to be useful :P 20:58:10 <frosch123> no idea, but whenever someone makes a gui-related patch, pelya complains why they did not use the patch already included in the android port :p 20:58:17 <TrueBrain> that would be fun .. that you can just play the game where-ever you are :D 21:03:49 <_dp_> idk, if they can't run regular version why would they want browser one? 21:03:59 <_dp_> especially it's not a mobile version 21:04:05 <TrueBrain> ease-of-access 21:04:09 <TrueBrain> quick 21:04:17 <_dp_> I see emscripten version more like a savegame/server viewer 21:04:20 <TrueBrain> but .. I could be wrong, and that makes it worth trying :D 21:04:38 <TrueBrain> just ... cloudsaves ... must .... fix ... infrastructure .. first ... 21:05:07 <frosch123> how about an interactive screenshot page? 21:05:19 <TrueBrain> http://127.0.0.1:8080/AI Library/b'HBUQ'/b'\x8c\xe5^ 21:05:20 <TrueBrain> oops :D 21:05:21 <frosch123> trains move on the screenshots, and you can continue the games :p 21:05:43 <_dp_> lol 21:05:51 <frosch123> now everyone knows your ip, and can hack you 21:06:01 <TrueBrain> :D 21:06:10 <glx> hey it's my ip 21:06:35 <frosch123> rude, tb using your computer to mine coins? 21:06:56 <TrueBrain> how else can I afford to work on OpenTTD? 21:07:00 * _dp_ wonders how many people here actually have something on that url 21:07:03 <glx> oh that's why I'm always short on RAM 21:07:14 *** arikover has joined #openttd 21:08:36 <TrueBrain> http://127.0.0.1:8080/AI/50554c43/2088 21:08:38 <TrueBrain> that is a lot better :D 21:08:42 <Samu> do something about my PR's, they're piling up 21:08:54 <TrueBrain> are you paying us? 21:09:23 <Samu> things get forgotten :( 21:09:37 <TrueBrain> there is a difference between forgotten and ignored 21:10:19 <TrueBrain> you did notice that only producing PRs is not really helping, right? How about helping in other ways, like making sure other PRs are processed quicker, or help with release notes, or all the other tasks people are swamped with? 21:11:25 <Samu> me helping other PR's? 21:11:38 <TrueBrain> okay, content-server is feature complete it seems .. that is good progress for a day :D 21:11:43 <andythenorth> maintaining openttd docs, newgrf docs, nml docs, dev docs, opengfx, etc etc 21:11:46 <andythenorth> testing other PRs 21:11:53 <andythenorth> diagnosing reported bugs 21:12:18 <andythenorth> I do all of that, draw sprites for game, AND make biggest, buggiest newgrfs 21:12:24 <andythenorth> not the most popular newgrfs though :( 21:12:31 <andythenorth> oof 21:12:33 <glx> hmm disgnosing bugs is not easy :) 21:12:35 <TrueBrain> helping out with Open Source projects is not only producing fixes for problems 0.1% of the people will notice. Sure, they should be fixed some day .. but how about all that other work that needs attending? 21:13:20 <TrueBrain> so please don't -demand- we should attend your PRs .. there is more in the world than just your little island .. and please start helping with OpenTTD in the broader sense 21:13:57 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I made a full export of BaNaNaS .. I think I will put it on a private repository for now, so possibly you and a few others can look over that I didn't screw up :) 21:14:08 <TrueBrain> I think what I did is fine, and won't trigger any authors in any way 21:14:10 <frosch123> sounds good 21:14:19 <glx> would be nice if someone could review #7270 21:14:24 <TrueBrain> and it really works well :D 21:14:24 <frosch123> i'll check it for sure 21:14:32 <TrueBrain> it is 40MB btw :P 21:15:06 <andythenorth> Samu: I guess there is completionism inside game src, which seems to interest you 21:15:13 <andythenorth> and then there is completionism of entire project 21:19:28 <Samu> i could test the double click to rename vehicle 21:20:16 <Samu> glx, can you help me with git bash again, I can no longer do git pr xxxx 21:20:24 <_dp_> on a topic of PR's... is there still any chance to have #7912 in 1.10? 21:20:56 <glx> Samu: you lost git config ? 21:21:03 <nielsm> _dp_ no, it's a savegame upgrade 21:21:08 <Samu> i formated c:, so i think i did 21:21:18 <glx> oh of course 21:21:24 <_dp_> :( 21:22:02 <andythenorth> I do 21:22:03 <andythenorth> git fetch origin pull/6753/head:6753 21:22:17 <andythenorth> per openttd README I think 21:22:33 <Samu> $ git pr 8008 21:22:33 <Samu> git: 'pr' is not a git command. See 'git --help'. 21:22:42 <glx> Samu: git config --global --edit 21:22:43 <frosch123> that pr fetch is less useful than i initially thought. you cannot push to that url 21:22:53 <glx> pr = "!f() { git fetch -fu ${2:-$(git remote | grep ^upstream || echo origin)} refs/pull//head:pr/ && git checkout pr/; }; f" 21:22:53 <glx> pr-clean = "!git for-each-ref refs/heads/pr/* --format='%(refname)' | while read ref ; do branch=${ref#refs/heads/} ; git branch -D $branch ; done" 21:22:53 <glx> in [alias] section 21:23:17 <frosch123> even fetching a second time after a pr update is hard 21:23:20 <TrueBrain> install the GitHub CLI client! 21:23:24 <TrueBrain> I read it is pretty good :) 21:23:31 <Samu> im now gonna keep that in a handy document 21:23:42 <glx> to update I run pr again 21:23:47 <nielsm> frosch123 yeah I usually add the submitter's fork as another remote and check out their branch 21:24:08 <TrueBrain> what happens if you put a monkey behind a keyboard for 2 days ... https://github.com/OpenTTD/content-server/pull/1 :P 21:24:14 <glx> same I add a remote and set the upstream 21:24:16 <TrueBrain> not done yet, but I just wanted to sync it to remote 21:24:36 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 21:26:15 <Samu> thx, it works again 21:27:03 <frosch123> is that for backend horses? 21:27:29 <TrueBrain> yeah 21:28:21 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I just send you an invite 21:28:37 <TrueBrain> I did in the end import also older versions, as that made the code a lot less complicated. I think it is fine with the content there is 21:28:46 <TrueBrain> I filtered out authors that requested to be filtered out 21:29:07 <TrueBrain> the world is now very simple: savegame-only downloads are in the repository listed under the uniqueid 21:29:09 <TrueBrain> new-games are too 21:29:16 <TrueBrain> (and both marked as such) 21:29:33 <TrueBrain> some uniqueids are in global.yaml marked as "deprecated" .. those are uniqueids no longer used by the original author 21:29:40 <TrueBrain> (but they do have "savegame-only" versions) 21:29:52 <TrueBrain> let me know what you think; any and all feedback is welcome 21:29:53 <TrueBrain> and it is HUGE 21:30:37 <TrueBrain> (for older versions it adds description/tags/etc only if they differ from "global") 21:30:49 *** urdh has quit IRC 21:31:37 <TrueBrain> https://gist.github.com/TrueBrain/883609211e6136c397305c70a8d28e9c 21:31:41 <TrueBrain> amount of content loaded in :) 21:33:16 <TrueBrain> if anyone else would like to review the BaNaNaS GitHub repository before I bring it public, please do let me know :) 21:33:20 <andythenorth> bloody newgrf authors :) 21:34:07 <TrueBrain> GitHub is really quick navigating this repo :P 21:34:14 <TrueBrain> 10k files 21:34:54 <TrueBrain> only 2 Base Sounds, lol 21:34:55 <Samu> hmm i can double click on a competitor road vehicle and try rename it, only to get an error saying it's not mine 21:35:16 <TrueBrain> Samu: and I think exactly those kind of observations should go in PR comments :) 21:35:37 *** tokai has joined #openttd 21:35:37 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 21:35:37 <Samu> I see :) 21:36:59 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #8008: Feature: Double-click to rename vehicle https://git.io/JvzV0 21:37:42 <Samu> hmm the tooltip doesn't mention anything about double-click to rename 21:38:35 <frosch123> TrueBrain: the website says "724 newgrf", but there are 812 folders in the repo. are you telling me that 11% of newgrf are weird? 21:38:59 <TrueBrain> frosch123: 119 uniqueids (over all content-types) are no longer used 21:39:06 <TrueBrain> basically, the user uploaded a new version with a different uniqueid 21:39:20 <TrueBrain> let me check how many of those are in the NewGRF category 21:39:28 <frosch123> why did bananas even allow that? 21:39:35 <TrueBrain> shrug 21:39:41 <TrueBrain> I found more bugs in BaNaNaS :) 21:40:34 <TrueBrain> 79 of those were NewGRFs 21:40:38 <TrueBrain> @calc 724 + 79 21:40:38 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 803 21:40:49 <TrueBrain> so that leaves 9 .. let me see .. 21:42:58 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 21:43:23 <frosch123> for scenarios there is also a big discrepancy 21:43:31 <frosch123> does it not match updates to scenarios? 21:44:24 <TrueBrain> scenarios are also a bit of a mess ... a lot of people there too uploaded new versions with new uniqueids 21:44:29 <TrueBrain> but I think BaNaNaS does this 21:44:32 <TrueBrain> (and musa doesn't) 21:44:42 <frosch123> uniqueids are not in control of the user for scenarios 21:45:09 <TrueBrain> musa allows you to set the same one you used before, basically 21:45:11 <TrueBrain> some people did 21:45:16 <frosch123> otoh, they do not really matter for scenarios, so maybe we shoudl fix them 21:45:57 <TrueBrain> okay, for NewGRFs the remaining difference are the silversurfer-dudes entries. They are not listed on the website (rightfully), but their folder is generated (as he was fine with the "savegame-only" part) 21:46:16 <TrueBrain> yeah, we can bring scenarios back under the same uniqueid, but: which? :D 21:46:19 <TrueBrain> the latest, I guess 21:46:49 <frosch123> yes, latest results in the best upgrade behaviour 21:47:23 <TrueBrain> yeah, 40 or so are indeed changes-of-unique-ids 21:47:26 *** debdog has joined #openttd 21:47:54 <TrueBrain> one issue with moving them, is that we still need to reserve those IDs from future use 21:47:58 *** tokai has quit IRC 21:49:06 <frosch123> they are assigned by bananas, so not sure what algorithm you were planning for assingin g them 21:49:26 <frosch123> but using max-used-id+1 is easier than first-gap 21:49:27 <TrueBrain> did not consider it at all, but good point, we can just take a higher number than current 21:49:29 <TrueBrain> and it should be fine 21:50:10 <TrueBrain> more special code .. this migration script .. you really don't want to know :P 21:50:52 <frosch123> btw. i got the "first-gap" in the coding test in the interview of my current job 21:50:58 <TrueBrain> hmm .. for "savegame-only", compatibility can be removed, not? 21:51:11 <TrueBrain> "first-gap"? 21:51:34 <frosch123> find the first positive integer that is not in a vector 21:51:52 <TrueBrain> ah 21:51:55 <frosch123> at may old company we only tested whether people can find min/max 21:52:02 <TrueBrain> lol 21:52:05 <frosch123> but first gap is surprisingly harder 21:52:19 <TrueBrain> you have to write it from scratch? 21:52:52 <TrueBrain> so either you remember quicksort, or you have a slow-as-fuck algorithm :D 21:53:09 <TrueBrain> and I can never remember how quicksort worked again :P 21:53:13 <frosch123> the first-gap? the company has a godbolt-like webinterface, you can write code, compile and need to pass prepared unit tests 21:53:28 <TrueBrain> wow, that is ... impressively prepared :D 21:53:31 <frosch123> you start with the function prototype and empty body 21:53:43 <frosch123> TrueBrain: yep, i was impressed as well 21:53:51 <TrueBrain> did you pass the test? :D 21:54:06 <frosch123> at old company we showed code on slides, and they had to find standard bugs, like unintialized variables and dangling pointers 21:54:21 <TrueBrain> I hate those tests .. they tell so little 21:54:31 <frosch123> TrueBrain: it took more time to explain my solution than to write it 21:54:36 <TrueBrain> haha 21:54:46 <frosch123> TrueBrain: no, they tell a lot 21:55:01 <frosch123> i am the author of the coding test at my old company 21:55:15 <frosch123> its super easy questions who everyone with a little practice can answer in 5 seconds 21:55:35 <TrueBrain> owh, we used to have them where even I had to look 5 times to spot the issue 21:55:38 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 21:55:46 <frosch123> but you immediately discover people who only wrote some code in their mandatory c lecture 5 years ago 21:56:05 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 21:56:08 <TrueBrain> we just tell them to write a solver for a puzzle .. it will be at least 200 lines of Python 21:56:18 <TrueBrain> but yeah, you want to split those groups apart 21:56:20 <frosch123> that's a lot harder :p 21:56:25 *** NGC3982_ has joined #openttd 21:56:38 <TrueBrain> "Do you have any programming experience?" - "Yes, I wrote this for a class, and that for a class, and this for a class ..." - "okay, you can go now" 21:56:52 <LordAro> i can think of about 3 different solutions, depends on how fast you want it to be :p 21:56:56 <frosch123> in the find-bugs test, there were essentially two kind of people. those who failed, and those who laughed at the easyness 21:57:04 <frosch123> sometimes i thought we scare the good ones away :p 21:58:14 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i also know the coding test at the polish subsidiary of my old company 21:58:22 <frosch123> but that was really a terrible test 21:58:54 <frosch123> most of it were very basic questions about two code samples, then those questions were mixed, and people had to solve them under time pressure 21:59:16 <frosch123> so, the only thing that was actually tested was, whether people can sort the questions by code sample, before answering them 21:59:24 <frosch123> performing easy tasks under pressure 21:59:44 <frosch123> that explained a lot about the people that acutally got hired :s 22:00:07 <TrueBrain> I am happy we changed tactics, and we are fine with motivated people :) We can train them to be developers on the job :P (we also dropped the solver-test .. which I think is still a shame :P) 22:01:14 <LordAro> "can solve an algorithmic problem" is basically all you need to look for 22:01:14 *** urdh has joined #openttd 22:01:21 <LordAro> specific language knowledge is mostly redundant 22:01:27 <TrueBrain> it sure is 22:01:28 *** NGC3982__ has joined #openttd 22:01:41 <LordAro> (we write Ada, we'd never hire anyone if we wanted previous experience!) 22:01:44 <TrueBrain> I did .. 100+ interviews over the last few years .. you know within a few minutes if someone is a coder by just talking to them, really 22:02:01 *** NGC3982 has quit IRC 22:02:10 <TrueBrain> Ada, oef 22:02:34 <TrueBrain> people uploaded content to BaNaNaS! How dare they :P 22:02:41 <frosch123> in that case noone would have been a coder at my old company :p we mostly hired electrical engineers, who also had to know coding 22:03:19 *** NGC3982__ is now known as NGC3982 22:03:25 <LordAro> turns out you should hire for the job, not just something generic 22:03:29 <LordAro> who knew? 22:03:41 <LordAro> TrueBrain: Aerospace, comes with the territory 22:04:00 <TrueBrain> can't remember the last time I have seen Ada ... like really .. can't remember 22:04:01 <frosch123> i was at a pl-1 job interview, just for lolz 22:04:05 <LordAro> it's not that bad really 22:04:11 <LordAro> has nice concurrency stuff 22:04:30 <TrueBrain> owh, right, Pascal-look-alike 22:04:32 <TrueBrain> now I remember :D 22:04:41 *** NGC3982_ has quit IRC 22:04:41 <LordAro> Pascal-with-concurrency-bolted-on 22:04:43 <LordAro> :) 22:04:46 <TrueBrain> I love Pascal 22:04:46 <frosch123> python is also pascal-look-alike 22:04:49 <TrueBrain> it is such a better language 22:05:22 <TrueBrain> if it is, not for the things I appreciate about Pascal :P 22:05:45 <LordAro> https://learn.adacore.com/courses/intro-to-ada/chapters/tasking.html 22:06:15 <LordAro> at least we get to use "modern" Ada at work, and aren't stuck with something from the 80s like some of our clients 22:06:34 <frosch123> ok, the biggest failure of c (* being on the left), does not translate to python 22:10:12 <frosch123> in my youth there were a lof of myths about c being better than pascal. later i found a list on wikipedia listing the perceived advantages of c over pascal in the early days, and would be considered bad-practice today 22:10:36 <frosch123> +most of them 22:11:15 <TrueBrain> frosch123: pushed updates, Scenarios are now in the same folder 22:11:30 <frosch123> stuff like "zero terminates string are better than storing length" and "support for variadic functions" 22:11:55 <TrueBrain> its funny how these things go ;) 22:12:21 <frosch123> pulled updated, will check more tomorrow :) 22:12:38 <TrueBrain> but for "savegames-only" I can remove "compatability", right? 22:12:40 <TrueBrain> as it has no meaning there 22:13:07 <TrueBrain> scenarios with savegame-only also have no meaning btw, but .. it looks pretty or what-ever 22:14:51 <frosch123> never delete data that does not hurt :) 22:16:10 <TrueBrain> k, removed "compatability" when "savegames-only" is set 22:16:13 <TrueBrain> saves a lot of bytes 22:16:54 <LordAro> frosch123: i only recently learned that there actually is a difference between void foo(); and void foo(void); 22:17:03 <LordAro> i thought the latter was just some old C style thing 22:17:05 <TrueBrain> bad LordAro :P 22:17:16 <frosch123> LordAro: the former is the gateway to hell in c 22:17:17 <TrueBrain> how often I made patches to fix that .. you really don't want to know :) 22:17:26 <TrueBrain> GCC warns for it these days 22:17:52 <LordAro> :) 22:18:00 <frosch123> LordAro: did you learn about void foo(a, b) int a,b; { ... } 22:18:13 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:18:26 <LordAro> i only learned when i had to make a bit of our code as "compatible as possible" (C89+) 22:18:29 <LordAro> frosch123: aye 22:18:32 <LordAro> horrifying. 22:18:46 <TrueBrain> best C line: #define true ((__LINE__&15)!=15) 22:19:27 <LordAro> oh no 22:19:29 <frosch123> LordAro: i had most fun with missing prototype when my old company ported from 32bit to 64bit. previously pointers and integers were 4 byte, afterwards pointers were 64bit 22:19:45 <frosch123> suddenly the warning "missing prototype" resulted in crashes 22:19:52 <LordAro> :D 22:19:58 <LordAro> seen that several times 22:20:04 <frosch123> while engineers were too lazy to add #include, since they are just warnings 22:20:18 <TrueBrain> YOLOOOOOO :) 22:20:32 <LordAro> luckily, the C bits of our code is all guarded with -Werror :) 22:20:40 <LordAro> and i absolutely will not budge on that 22:20:56 <LordAro> our Ada is less nice, but it's slowly getting better... 22:20:56 <TrueBrain> -Wall -W... -W... -f... -f... -W... 22:21:02 <TrueBrain> there are just too many things to set in GCC :P 22:21:10 <frosch123> TrueBrain: even worse, there was a case of "#define if (a) if (0 | a)" 22:21:11 <LordAro> -funroll-loops best 22:21:13 <dwfreed> -Wall -Wextra -Werror 22:21:16 <dwfreed> :D 22:21:41 <frosch123> someone found a trick to make if (a = b) not compile, but later compilers warned about the weirdness, and people stated 2 days at the ifs 22:21:48 <TrueBrain> okay ... so I think this part of BaNaNaS rewrite is done .. I guess tomorrow I focus on an API to change/edit/upload stuff 22:21:50 <frosch123> *stared 22:21:56 <TrueBrain> still not looking forward to that, as ... Javascript .... 22:22:39 <frosch123> TrueBrain: do you know flexx? 22:22:49 <TrueBrain> no? 22:22:57 <frosch123> https://flexx.readthedocs.io/en/stable/ 22:23:11 <LordAro> https://godbolt.org/z/jk_7b2 a friend of mine wrote this (for fun) the other day 22:23:12 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: Right at this minute, I'm compiling my C code to JS 22:23:19 <frosch123> python gui framework that jit-transpiles to javascript or something 22:23:20 *** tokai has joined #openttd 22:23:20 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 22:23:20 <FLHerne> emscripten is amazing 22:23:30 <TrueBrain> frosch123: do we want that for OpenTTD? :) 22:23:30 <LordAro> FLHerne: sounds awful 22:23:58 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i never used it, because it was not packaed on redhat 6 :p 22:24:01 <FLHerne> More fun, because it's C code using GL ES 2.0, which is converted to WebGL 22:24:07 <TrueBrain> LordAro: I once write "microthreads" in C ... I will spare you the code snippets :P (but it worked!) 22:24:17 <FLHerne> Very cool, until it stops working, and then aaargh 22:24:38 <frosch123> FLHerne: why not webassmebly? 22:25:11 <TrueBrain> I completely missed the boat on shit like react etc etc .. so how am I going to do this as easy as possible .. 22:25:57 <TrueBrain> I want something simple, like: a list of versions on the left, settings on the right which you have to fill in, and an upload form for a new version 22:25:58 <LordAro> i think jsx is the in-thing nowadays? 22:26:10 <TrueBrain> that should be something really trivial to make, not? 22:26:11 <frosch123> LordAro: was your friend involved with boost coroutine? 22:26:13 <FLHerne> frosch123: Because some nutter is using Firefox 38 22:26:14 <TrueBrain> maybe just plain javascript ... 22:26:32 <LordAro> frosch123: i think they were just trying to make exceptions in C 22:26:45 <FLHerne> I don't know /why/ anyone would insist on a three-year-old version of an open-source browser 22:26:53 <FLHerne> But they won't change it 22:27:21 <TrueBrain> well, guess I first start with the API, and we will go from there or what-ever :P 22:27:58 <frosch123> i like the "make it work with curl fist" approach 22:28:05 <frosch123> +r 22:28:09 <TrueBrain> exactly :P 22:28:18 <TrueBrain> but you might miss things you need for frontend :P 22:28:22 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 22:31:08 *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC 22:32:27 <frosch123> night 22:32:29 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:33:57 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd 22:36:02 <Eddi|zuHause> what comes after microthreads? nanothreads? 22:36:15 <Eddi|zuHause> gobigorgohomethreads? 22:37:28 <LordAro> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nano-threads 22:37:31 *** Sheogorath has quit IRC 22:37:40 <LordAro> only 23 years old 22:38:38 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:44:17 <Samu> tomorrow i'll try writing some GS to test 7912 22:44:27 <Samu> have no time now 22:44:33 <Samu> cyas gn 22:45:08 *** Samu has quit IRC 23:06:29 *** arikover has quit IRC 23:10:46 *** heffer has quit IRC 23:12:44 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] spauka commented on issue #7644: Mysteriously poor performance on macOS https://git.io/fjii3 23:16:23 *** heffer has joined #openttd 23:16:31 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 23:16:31 *** nielsm has quit IRC 23:18:04 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 23:19:55 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] probonopd commented on issue #8019: AppImage support https://git.io/Jv0hG 23:43:23 *** heffer_ has joined #openttd 23:45:28 *** heffer has quit IRC