Log for #openttd on 16th March 2020:
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08:12:51  <Samu> hmm :)
08:12:52  <Samu> hi
08:17:02  <Samu> ScriptRail::AreTilesConnected doesn't really check if the tiles are connected :(
08:20:10  <Samu> at least, in a way I would expect
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10:00:02  <busmania> Hello, i will install openttd on my lubuntu `18.04.4 machine but if i install the flatpak i get the 1.7.1 version and wen i will install the version from i can;t install it. is this a known problem?
10:02:48  <Heiki> which version did you try to install?
10:05:13  <busmania> 1.9.3 of openttd
10:06:32  <Heiki> and what error do you get when installing from ?
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10:14:10  <busmania> the download opend automatic and i get a message that there is a lower version as flatpack. i click that message away and press install but is close only the pakketinstaller
10:15:19  <Heiki> try removing the flatpak version?
10:16:10  <Heiki> (and installing the deb version after that)
10:22:51  <busmania> i have unistalll all the version and pakkeges from openttd and even the download and it don not work now.
10:23:11  <busmania> i those the same thing as before
10:27:06  <Heiki> perhaps you might try downloading the file and then installing it from the command line (“sudo dpkg -i openttd-1.9.3-linux-ubuntu-bionic-amd64.deb”)
10:31:56  <busmania> i have openttd installed though downloading the install package from to the downloads folder and than choose for install with software store. now i works.
10:32:03  <busmania> Thanks @heiki
10:33:02  <Heiki> nice, happy playing!
10:38:22  <busmania> @Heiki, i want also to install openttd on a lubuntu 19.10 64 bit machine but i get " Error: Cannot satisfy dependecies" error is this becase openttd in not get supported for ubunut 19.10. i use the 18.04 install file.
10:40:47  <Heiki> which dependencies is it complaining about?
10:43:58  <busmania> @Heiki, i say it by the status on the QAPT package installer
10:45:07  <Heiki> you might get more informative error messages when trying to install from the command line with dpkg -i
10:45:25  <busmania> i will check that
10:47:28  <busmania> a get a message that say that there is no access to the archief
10:48:04  <Heiki> did you try as root (i.e. with sudo)?
10:48:39  <busmania> if i cd to the downloads folder i get more info about the error
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10:59:02  <Heiki> I just tried installing the Debian Stretch (= very old) version on Debian testing (= very new) and had no problems at all, so I suppose the 18.04 Ubuntu version should be good enough for 19.10 as well
11:03:47  <busmania> i get a error that libicu60 is not working and ass i want to install it with " sudo apt install libicu60 it will not work and i need to unistall openttd. installing after that it will not work and say it is not A candidate for this version
11:05:23  <busmania> and libicudata is make for 18.04 and i can't found a version for 19.10
11:07:59  <busmania> i think a have found a version that works with 19.10 but now sure.
11:13:58  <busmania> i have install libicu and it is succesfull but now i need libiculx60 but i can;t found a version for installing that for 19.10. does anyone know the command for that
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16:06:22  <Wolf01> Working from home... heh
16:11:05  <andythenorth> yo
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16:55:18  <TrueBrain> was quiet okay, working from home
16:55:23  <TrueBrain> too bad Teams dropped out a few times, but meh
17:05:18  <andythenorth> I have been working from home on and off for 20 years
17:05:25  <andythenorth> I forget how unusual it is for some
17:05:35  <andythenorth> sometimes it's crap, sometimes it's great
17:05:36  <TrueBrain> there is a HUGE difference between working home once in a while
17:05:39  <TrueBrain> and working from home, period
17:05:40  <TrueBrain> I noticed ;)
17:05:53  <andythenorth> I worked on my own for months at a time
17:05:57  <andythenorth> massive cabin fever
17:06:07  <TrueBrain> mostly, it is boring as fuck
17:06:13  <TrueBrain> nobody to constantly talk to :P
17:06:33  <andythenorth> I get very noisy in chat apps
17:06:38  <andythenorth> ever seen that? :P
17:07:48  <TrueBrain> no, do tell
17:07:53  <TrueBrain> today I had groups that did not reply at all
17:07:57  <TrueBrain> even at the bestests of jokes
17:07:59  <TrueBrain> I was SAD
17:08:14  <andythenorth> you can always demand a video call
17:08:20  <andythenorth> that usually gets the gags flowing
17:08:24  <TrueBrain> I had so many today :P
17:08:33  <TrueBrain> I had more video calls today than in whole 2019, I noticed :P
17:09:03  <TrueBrain> what I like most about all this, how people adjust, and find a way
17:09:13  <TrueBrain> many many companies are now starting to use Teams
17:09:22  <TrueBrain> (as it is free for the next 6 months for them, I guess that is a good motivator)
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17:48:15  <Samu> first covid-19 victim in portugal... died some minutes ago, RIP
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18:01:58  <SpComb> Finland had its first covid-19 victim taken into intensive care today
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18:27:50  <TrueBrain> frosch123: changed the API as discussed; package/content-type only returns the "new-games" versions, and no more /package/search
18:28:41  <Samu> i made a train ai for fun, actually was testing stuff
18:28:54  <Samu> turns out ok, might keep it
18:29:40  <Samu> won't release as a new AI, i'll try to integrate it into LuDi AfterFix
18:30:32  <TrueBrain> < Content-Length: 1419656 <- for NewGRFs. That is 1.4 MiB
18:30:40  <TrueBrain> better, but .. still far from useable :P
18:32:00  <TrueBrain> oops, I made a boo-boo
18:32:04  <TrueBrain> < Content-Length: 520379 <- there we go
18:32:13  <TrueBrain> that is already a lot better :D
18:33:24  <Samu> was testing whether I could reconstruct a list of tiles that contain the entirety of a rail route
18:33:38  <Samu> by just giving the station
18:35:38  <andythenorth> interesting
18:40:09  <frosch123> TrueBrain: i made the templates so that only non-public pages show a user name / logout button
18:40:17  <frosch123> so the others can be cached by whatever
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18:46:16  <andythenorth> what should new Bananas look like? o_O
18:47:13  <nielsm> yellow with shades of green, obv
18:47:49  <andythenorth> who's our designer these days?
18:52:31  <frosch123> firs&chips style bananas
18:59:05  <andythenorth> someone was doing the openttd website?
18:59:08  * andythenorth looks in github
19:00:13  <frosch123> yeah, when the templates are pushed, we can send a message to the team
19:00:15  <andythenorth> auge
19:00:19  <andythenorth> and LordAro
19:00:33  <frosch123> andythenorth: check "website people" team
19:01:41  <andythenorth>
19:02:08  <andythenorth> is there a templating language and all that jazz?
19:02:26  <frosch123> jinja2
19:02:54  <frosch123> did you see my ugly screenshots?
19:03:09  <andythenorth> classic serif font html in my opinion
19:03:23  <andythenorth> how the internet is supposed to look :P
19:03:26  <frosch123>
19:03:59  <andythenorth> has anyone decided on the UI framework choice yet?  I really can't be arsed to get involved in that
19:04:33  <andythenorth> it's bad behaviour, but I realised all the ottd website and blog stuff is not really for me
19:04:43  <andythenorth> it's like doing my day job, again, only with other people in charge
19:04:43  <frosch123> i am writing a flask frontend, since noone wants two write a js frontend
19:05:22  <frosch123> but the api is there, so that someone can write a js frontend
19:05:32  <frosch123> maybe we find a teenager who enjoys that
19:05:53  <frosch123> quite sure only teenagers may enjoy it
19:08:48  <andythenorth> I used to enjoy writing Flash frontends
19:08:52  <andythenorth> bring back Flash :P
19:09:04  <andythenorth> I did not enjoy writing async Flash frontends
19:09:22  <frosch123> i would expect there are flash interpreters written in webm
19:09:28  <andythenorth> nobody should ever write any async UI stuff over a network ever
19:09:43  <andythenorth> having done it, it's a stunningly ridiculous thing to do
19:09:43  <frosch123> *wasm
19:09:46  <andythenorth> and yet
19:09:52  <frosch123> silly 4 letter ids :p
19:09:56  <andythenorth> :P
19:10:17  <andythenorth> and yet every 5 years we have to relearn that async over networks is bad
19:10:35  <andythenorth> and a whole part of the industry thinks it's just a tooling problem
19:10:52  <frosch123> people want to write websites in c++ now
19:11:01  <andythenorth> "that's probably fine"
19:11:08  <andythenorth> where is the state kept?
19:11:09  <andythenorth> :P
19:11:10  <frosch123> i looked at their example, it was filled to the top with sql injections
19:11:27  <andythenorth> oh so you just let third parties determine the state?
19:11:29  <andythenorth> probably fine
19:12:09  <andythenorth> so given that Everyone Hates Bootstrap
19:12:18  <andythenorth> which web framework is de jour now?
19:12:34  <andythenorth> all anyone agrees on is that Bootstrap Must Be A Bad Thing
19:12:53  <nielsm> from scratch is my favourite
19:12:58  <frosch123> no idea, my last update on that topic is from when eints was written, and there you liked bootstrap :)
19:13:17  <andythenorth> like is a strong word
19:13:28  <andythenorth> accepting that it is functional and won
19:13:31  <andythenorth> might be better
19:13:44  <andythenorth> but it's much cooler to have opinions on why it's bad
19:14:18  <andythenorth> my favourite objection is 'all the divs damage the semantics'
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19:16:39  <frosch123> maybe we can describe the page as .dot graph, with edges between related paragraphs
19:16:50  <frosch123> then some framework can layout based on that
19:17:38  <andythenorth> that's actually quite a nice idea :P
19:17:49  <andythenorth> the troll of it appeals
19:18:58  <frosch123> the roadmap is to upgrade from paragraph relations to sentence/word/letter relations?
19:19:58  <andythenorth> then we could micro-control typography
19:21:24  <andythenorth> "Semantic markup is about limiting HTML to only those tags required to express the content of the page, as opposed to its layout. Therefore, things like "container divs" are frowned upon.
19:21:25  <andythenorth> Well, Bootstrap does indeed make liberal use of layout-only elements like this one:"
19:21:33  <andythenorth> hmm
19:21:48  <andythenorth> the semantic dream never dies eh
19:36:44  <dwfreed> the reality is to get the page to look the way you want, you've got to use divs all over the place
19:37:04  <andythenorth> the trick question is, 'what is the semantic value of a div'?
19:37:26  <TrueBrain> I would say: less talking, more building :)
19:37:34  <andythenorth> I am not in a building mood :P
19:37:40  <andythenorth> but I approve of the idea
19:40:07  <andythenorth> I think nielsm offered above to write us a web UI library?
19:42:19  <nielsm> lol
19:42:48  * andythenorth was just reading about css grid examples
19:42:59  <andythenorth> apparently no framework is needed
19:43:15  <andythenorth> the method seems to be just defining css for specific tags
19:43:24  <nielsm> just demand everyone uses a sufficiently modern browser
19:43:34  <frosch123> nfw - noframework: sounds like a ottd thing
19:43:52  <andythenorth> I live in a world where 97-99% browser support is a target
19:44:00  <andythenorth> so I never know about this modern stuff
19:44:13  <frosch123> we just dropped win xp support, didn't we?
19:44:34  <frosch123> "just" = "two years ago" or so
19:44:54  <andythenorth> not sure :D
19:47:38  <frosch123> i fixed the obvious lies on the new bananas frontpage
19:47:48  <frosch123> i did not yet fix the lies in the tos
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