Log for #openttd on 29th April 2020:
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06:11:54  <andythenorth> yo
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06:40:36  <Samu> hi
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07:36:05  <TrueBrain> Yexo : no, is my work. I would never betray that with adding support in Squirrel for it :D
08:09:25  <andythenorth> another day, another SEO meta description
08:18:12  <planetmaker> moin
08:20:10  <andythenorth> hi pm
08:25:09  <planetmaker> hm, in an attempt to answer frosch's earlier question on assigning accounts for NewGRFs, and if openttdcoop is not an option as it seems (it has no separate github account and does not make sense in this structure): yes, OpenGFX* probably should go to me; but some other should also get upload rights...
08:25:49  <planetmaker> The idea of the shared coop account was - after all - easier access to updating a NewGRF in case of a bus factor striking home
08:26:31  <planetmaker> I'm pretty sure, that Ammler has no github account
08:27:02  <andythenorth> specific to OpenGFX base set, an OpenTTD GH team should take that over
08:27:07  <andythenorth> it's now core
08:27:37  <planetmaker> yes, exactly
08:28:09  <Samu> I just tried squirrel array sort, and it's extremely slow :( disappointed
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12:33:11  <andythenorth> is cat?
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12:43:27  <Wolf01> Is waiting for things to work out themselves
12:53:01  <Samu> - the different queues viewed in a different perspective
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13:32:49  <Samu> i found 2 more priority queues
13:33:02  <Samu> "terron priority queue" properly named
13:33:08  <Samu> "fifo queue" of kraken ai
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13:48:22  <Samu> trAIns has a weird one, gotta explore that
13:49:02  <supermop_Home> yo
13:50:28  <Eddi|zuHause> ho
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13:59:13  <andythenorth> short visit
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14:42:27  <supermop_Home> why do i keep disconnecting... i'm not losing my connection to my remote computer at work...
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14:55:04  <LordAro> TCP (i.e. persistent IRC connections) is more susceptible to drop outs than other protocols (like RDP/UDP)
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15:35:01  <Eddi|zuHause> some clients, especially on phones, have trouble keeping connections alive when in the background
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16:50:54  <TrueBrain> right, time to login to those VPSes, and see what they have on them .. before they expire :P
16:53:24  <TrueBrain> it really only has nginx + mirror files
16:53:25  <TrueBrain> good
16:54:05  <TrueBrain> and no more traffic; good
16:54:14  <TrueBrain> orudge: we can let the VPSes die, no problem :) We should be fine :)
16:56:58  <andythenorth> yay
16:57:13  <andythenorth> servers -> VPSes -> cloud -> nirvana
16:57:21  <andythenorth> next we all upload ourselves
16:57:27  <TrueBrain> 20 dollar a day .. yeah .. we need to do something about that .. some day
16:57:54  <andythenorth> patreon
16:58:07  <andythenorth> 10€ / month download pass
16:58:11  <andythenorth> early access fee
16:58:14  <andythenorth> adverts!
16:58:37  <TrueBrain> I just need to email CloudFlare :) Something to do this weekend :)
16:58:51  <TrueBrain> see if they accept us on only binaries (normally you have to move everything to them or nothing)
16:59:09  <TrueBrain> cache rate is between 40% and 100% on BaNaNaS files .. they are being cached nicely on the edge
16:59:16  <TrueBrain> people should notice that in terms of download speed
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17:00:11  <TrueBrain> most traffic is EU based
17:00:13  <TrueBrain> like .. 90%
17:01:41  <TrueBrain> 190GB on the 28th
17:01:47  <TrueBrain> over 40k requests
17:06:12  <milek7> 20$?!?
17:07:01  <milek7> that should be enough for two weeks
17:10:07  <andythenorth> two weeks of what?
17:10:16  <andythenorth> I spend maybe £400 / day on hosting
17:10:23  <andythenorth> in a tiny business
17:12:26  <LordAro> TrueBrain: very nice
17:12:48  <TrueBrain> pretty happy with the new setup .. very low on maintaince :)
17:13:08  <TrueBrain> only have to script to build a new docker once a while, to keep up with CVE automagically :)
17:13:15  <TrueBrain> reminds me, OpenGFX nightly has been broken for a while
17:13:21  <TrueBrain> Docker image is out of date :P
17:16:32  <TrueBrain> euh, GitHub Actions OS apt-database is out of date :P
17:17:42  <andythenorth> hmmm
17:17:50  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] TrueBrain opened pull request #40: Fix: [GitHub Actions] make sure apt-database is in sync
17:17:51  * andythenorth triggered by a CSS blog article :)
17:17:58  <andythenorth> oops I shouldn't post my bad behaviour here
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17:19:09  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] TrueBrain updated pull request #40: Fix: [GitHub Actions] make sure apt-database is in sync
17:19:16  <spnda> I just got VS 2019 and when building OpenTTD, I get an error that 'ft2build.h' can't be found. Anyone know of this issue? (This project worked fine with VS 2017)
17:19:39  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] LordAro approved pull request #40: Fix: [GitHub Actions] make sure apt-database is in sync
17:20:01  <TrueBrain> seems freetype2 .. (re)installed it with vcpkg?
17:20:08  <TrueBrain> owh wait, we don't have cmake merged yet
17:21:45  <frosch123> TrueBrain: want to address the TODO 3 lines below your change?
17:22:46  <TrueBrain> want to want to ..... but I did anyway
17:22:47  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] TrueBrain dismissed a review for pull request #40: Fix: [GitHub Actions] make sure apt-database is in sync
17:22:47  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] TrueBrain updated pull request #40: Fix: [GitHub Actions] make sure apt-database is in sync
17:22:51  <TrueBrain> just because I like you enough to put in that effort :)
17:23:07  <frosch123> \o/
17:24:07  <frosch123> when did debian switch to python linking to python3?
17:24:19  <TrueBrain> 2 versions ago?
17:24:19  <frosch123> on stable it still refers to python2
17:24:46  <LordAro> only very recently, i would think
17:24:51  <LordAro> it at all
17:25:12  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] LordAro approved pull request #40: Fix: [GitHub Actions] make sure apt-database is in sync
17:25:18  <TrueBrain> Buster still comes with 2.7
17:25:27  <TrueBrain> but their own scripts have been ported to 3 for a while now
17:25:32  <TrueBrain> haven't used 2 in a long time :P
17:26:02  <LordAro> arch has had python -> python3 for years
17:26:11  <LordAro> i imagine things will start switching over now that py2 is dead
17:26:21  <TrueBrain> people should start burning python2 ..
17:26:25  <TrueBrain> real quick
17:27:38  <TrueBrain> but also scripts only working pre-3.6 should be burnt
17:27:44  <LordAro> mm
17:28:37  <frosch123> what do scripts do when they only work < 3.6 ?
17:28:43  <LordAro> py3.5 is supported until September, alas
17:28:44  <frosch123> sounds like there is a standard issue :)
17:29:33  <spnda> oh i just opened the wrong vs project... works fine
17:30:40  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] TrueBrain merged pull request #40: Fix: [GitHub Actions] make sure apt-database is in sync
17:30:51  <TrueBrain> k, that fixes OpenGFX again ..
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17:38:51  <spnda> Does OpenGFX really include that famous graphics teapot? (SpriteID 4696)
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17:50:10  <glx> spnda:
17:51:15  <spnda> oh so it's a house in toyland? interesting.
17:54:38  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] frosch123 commented on issue #54: Support teams
17:57:42  <FLHerne> spnda: Here's a city full of them
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18:09:09  <andythenorth> anyone else getting Mailgun smtp failures?
18:09:12  * andythenorth asking for a friend :P
18:20:20  <orudge> Where?
18:23:44  <andythenorth> one of our products, several thousand-ish failed deliveries
18:23:51  <andythenorth> we didn't change anything our end
18:24:30  <andythenorth> specifically " 501 Invalid command or cannot parse from address (in reply to MAIL FROM command))"
18:24:43  <andythenorth> happening since Monday
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18:55:40  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] frosch123 opened issue #55: Add support for adding public keys to packages
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19:15:50  <frosch123> wow, someone forked manual industries to create an industry set with new cargos and complex chains
19:16:12  <frosch123> i wonder what's the use of manual indusries in that
19:17:57  <frosch123> planetmaker:
19:19:33  <TrueBrain> and ... merged
19:19:33  <TrueBrain> :)
19:20:25  <frosch123> 11% of packages has a github owner :)
19:22:39  <frosch123> i think that's about half of the requests i expect
19:22:52  <frosch123> rest is old and probably unmaintained
19:24:14  <_dp_> frosch123, probably as a nice starting point for an industry set without new graphics
19:24:28  <TrueBrain> and the last one we get in 2030 :)
19:32:35  <Samu> fifo queue is nothing I expected
19:32:52  <nielsm> yes fifo means first in first out
19:32:57  <nielsm> that's specifically not a priority queue
19:34:37  <Samu> deleted!
19:38:56  <andythenorth> hmm could we score down unmaintained grfs? o_O
19:39:11  <andythenorth> I closed that "Bananas is full of crappy junk" ticket as unhelpfu
19:39:16  <andythenorth> unhelpful *
19:39:29  <LordAro> there are definitely a few things that would benefit from being made "savegame only"
19:39:35  <andythenorth> maybe we should editorialise
19:39:48  <nielsm> LordAro: or have their max version set
19:40:22  <nielsm> make a best-effort attempt to contact the authors first obviously
19:40:49  <frosch123> andythenorth: don't take that report literally
19:41:48  <frosch123> at best i would interpret it as "various AIs crash", or it's just "newgrf are complciated to setup, you cannot add 50 vehicle sets at once for a balances game"
19:42:26  <nielsm> true that's one possibility
19:42:34  <LordAro> but even then
19:42:37  <nielsm> ottd is not like cities:skylines where more mods = better
19:42:44  <LordAro> several AIs are basically abandoned and regularly crash
19:42:51  <frosch123> i think crashing ais are the only thing that can be objective classified as junk
19:42:54  <LordAro> without any way to filter them, it does reflect quite badly
19:43:13  <frosch123> or scenarios with depend on non-bananas grfs :)
19:43:50  <nielsm> I had a dream a few days ago about making an automated testing for bananas content
19:44:02  <nielsm> probably not healthy to delve into
19:44:21  <LordAro> we need more automated testing for OTTD first :p
19:44:22  <frosch123> wasn't there an automated ai-vs-ai page?
19:44:29  <nielsm> yeah
19:44:29  <LordAro> frosch123: i think that was just Samu
19:44:41  <nielsm>
19:44:45  <nielsm> no that's someone else
19:45:01  <nielsm>
19:46:08  <andythenorth> frosch123 I interpreted it same as you
19:46:17  <frosch123> haha, "medieval ai" is on that list
19:47:10  <nielsm> IdleMore does not have zero points
19:47:13  <nielsm> it has actually won games
19:47:23  <LordAro> presumably by not crashing
19:47:27  <nielsm> IdleMoreMore is even better
19:47:39  <frosch123> medieval ai is the oldest ai on bananas (oldest latest version). even wright ai has a nwer update
19:48:11  <LordAro> the original Idle AI is definitely a strong contender to be removed from the list
19:48:20  <LordAro> as it doesn't even have the "no random" flag set, iirc
19:48:55  <LordAro> nielsm: that site is giving me a lot of 500 errors
19:49:25  <nielsm> yeah it seems to have some bugs
19:51:29  <frosch123> LordAro: aroai performs worse than wrightai :p
19:52:08  <LordAro> :(
19:52:13  <LordAro> aircraft op
19:52:15  <LordAro> pls nerf
19:53:17  <TrueBrain> but wrightAI is the best name ever, it is flawless code, and it was the first. So .. of course it is the best
20:04:58  <frosch123> <- it parses savegames
20:11:34  <_dp_> oh wow, and it actually parses a lot
20:11:50  <_dp_> wish it existed when I was making my own xD
20:12:51  <Samu> whoever coded trAIns was a master programmer
20:12:59  <Samu> i can't understand 1/4 of it
20:13:09  <Samu> too complex
20:14:00  <Samu> it has a queue, two level hash heap implemented in it, I just don't understand it
20:14:15  <Samu> it's different than all other queues, not compatible
20:16:22  <Samu> does it mean it's the fastest out there? I really wanted to try it, but don't know how
20:25:22  <andythenorth> any tickets I can close?
20:25:27  * andythenorth is looking for relaxation
20:25:34  <nielsm> lol
20:27:09  <andythenorth> they have to actually be valid for closing :|
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20:29:48  <nielsm>  this one
20:29:57  <nielsm> I'm quite sure that's a "working as intended"
20:30:23  <nielsm>  this one
20:31:50  <andythenorth> 8098 all I have is 'shrug'
20:32:00  <andythenorth> I don't see how to guarantee that a transfer leg will be positive
20:32:07  <andythenorth> it seems to start from the wrong premise?
20:32:36  <nielsm> yeah, a transfer leg can actually contribute negative value to the route
20:32:44  <nielsm> that's not wrong if you think about it
20:33:27  <andythenorth> close with the usual 'Thanks for contributing!' thing?
20:33:33  <andythenorth> I don't see it getting changed
20:34:37  <andythenorth> 8092 was there some blah blah about nobody was reading translators emails?
20:34:52  <andythenorth> I didn't really understand and it seemed to cause friction so I ignored it
20:35:21  * andythenorth might be smoking crack, not sure
20:35:32  <nielsm> I do remember seeing a convo like that
20:35:53  <nielsm> and possibly some conclusion about it moving to new infra "soon" so not worth spending time on new signups
20:36:09  <andythenorth> GH teams
20:36:35  <TrueBrain> lots of new uploads frosch123 , relative against normal days :P
20:36:35  <andythenorth> this I don't even what?
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20:38:05  <nielsm> yeah I think it might be better to have the installer warn on anything earlier than win7
20:38:56  <nielsm> "look nobody wants to test on your prehistoric system, if it crashes or spills coffee on your new shirt we don't want to hear about it"
20:39:30  <andythenorth> close this, use windowed mode as the solution?
20:40:04  <frosch123> TrueBrain: didn't we conclude yesterday that we average 35 upload/month
20:40:25  <frosch123> so, more than 1 per day on average, but with high variety
20:41:20  <TrueBrain> might be the case, but we had no uploads for the last week, and now several
20:41:23  <nielsm> andythenorth nah I think it's valid to want the fullscreen mode to work
20:41:28  <TrueBrain> so it makes me happy to see people udnerstand the system and can use it :D
20:41:32  <nielsm> otherwise the fullscreen mode should be removed entirely
20:42:08  <frosch123> TrueBrain: true, hardly any complains :)
20:48:44  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #8038: Fullscreen mode in MacOSX is almost unusable
20:52:25  <glx> and there's still the 10.12 crash to fix
20:54:05  <nielsm> will someone have to install 10.12 to develop at fix for that?
20:56:32  <glx> or guess fix and a PR build so the users can test
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20:58:51  <glx> because it may be a mix of old OS and newer toolkits
21:02:20  <andythenorth> hmm a few of these issues have PRs that would close thme
21:02:22  <andythenorth> them *
21:02:37  <nielsm> well time to get some sleep
21:02:38  <nielsm> gn
21:02:44  <andythenorth> could we have a moratorium on cost errors? :P
21:02:45  <andythenorth> bye nielsm
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23:50:40  <supermop_Home> and now I've somehow stayed connected for hours

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