Log for #openttd on 4th July 2020:
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00:30:19  <supermop_Home> i want a beer reward
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01:19:05  <b_jonas> so I can't cross railway bridges even when they're not at the same level?
01:21:17  <supermop_Home> not yet
01:21:28  <supermop_Home> except for the bridge head
01:23:20  <supermop_Home> why are british N scale trains so expensive?
01:24:07  <supermop_Home> a 2 car class 150 is like 0
01:27:26  <b_jonas> and there's some really good reason for this that I'm not aware of, right?
01:27:40  <b_jonas> it's not just a historical artifact of TTD not allowing high bridges
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01:46:35  <Eddi|zuHause> iirc it's just nobody has figured out how to do the graphics
01:46:45  <Eddi|zuHause> it's just a one-liner to enable crossing bridges
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02:18:22  <glx> yeah enabling crossing is easy, making it not look ugly is very hard
02:19:20  <b_jonas> I see
02:19:44  <b_jonas> because the top parts of the bottom bridge can be too high
02:20:12  <b_jonas> the graphics is also part of the difficulty with diagonal rail bridges by the way
02:20:45  <Eddi|zuHause> the top part could be too high, or there could be pillars below
02:21:19  <glx> pillars are already an issue with current bridges IIRC
02:21:43  <b_jonas> but I guess if you want to have crazy multi-level transport networks, you can play Locomotion instead
02:21:50  <glx> for a short time houses/industries were allowed under bridges
02:22:04  <b_jonas> oops
02:22:12  <b_jonas> those can be quite tall
02:22:47  <b_jonas> is there a graphics difficulty with allowing signals on the end tiles of bridges too?
02:25:20  <b_jonas> on the plus side, I noticed that openttd lets me live-replace a bridge under a train, which is so much fun
02:25:32  <b_jonas> also lets me modify signals under a train, also useful
02:26:06  <glx> it can be dangerous to touch signals with running trains :)
02:26:29  <b_jonas> yes, it can cause crashes
02:27:19  <Eddi|zuHause> for crazy multilevel transport networks you would also need parallel bridges, and signals/crossings
02:30:15  <supermop_Home> and flyover underground
02:30:51  <supermop_Home> and a map array that lets you build something larger than the financial district if you want to build a subway
02:31:23  <Eddi|zuHause> since bridges and tunnels are so similar, it would probably be natural to do it for them as well
02:31:42  <supermop_Home> i don't know why our stupid situation here has made me want to buy model trains
02:32:57  <supermop_Home> i think its my escapist fantasy yearning to be in a country that is not as dumb as here, and lovely rail infrastructure is comorbid with good civic sense?
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05:36:29  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] telk5093 commented on pull request #8207: Add: Cheat menu under land information menu and 'cheat' console command
05:36:29  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] telk5093 closed pull request #8207: Add: Cheat menu under land information menu and 'cheat' console command
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05:42:10  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler opened issue #8261: Suggestion: Add NewGRF global variable for industry density
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06:32:38  <andythenorth> moin
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08:27:32  <CornsMcGowan[m]> how much has the community shrunken since 2012?
08:27:43  <CornsMcGowan[m]> i guess its the sad truth that its dwindling
08:28:05  <CornsMcGowan[m]> oh yeah i was just about to ask about crossing bridges over
08:28:06  <CornsMcGowan[m]> and implementing it
08:28:28  <CornsMcGowan[m]> wait crossing bridges is a one liner :0
08:29:20  <CornsMcGowan[m]> ah i see, thank you :)
08:31:34  <andythenorth> odd matrix message format?
08:31:49  <andythenorth> CornsMcGowan[m] all communities are dwindling, all things get worse, and everyone's dying
08:32:18  <CornsMcGowan[m]> odd indeed
08:32:29  <CornsMcGowan[m]> also yeah bridge pillars are a bit obstructive
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08:33:19  <TrueBrain> moin andythenorth
08:33:31  <andythenorth> CornsMcGowan[m] if you want actual empirical evidence
08:33:34  <CornsMcGowan[m]> suspension is a bit better
08:33:37  <andythenorth> but then again
08:33:42  <andythenorth> maybe the game is just more done
08:33:48  <andythenorth> causes aren't effects and vice versa
08:33:51  <andythenorth> yo TrueBrain
08:33:56  <andythenorth> I have fucked up my AWS life
08:34:01  <LordAro> it's difficult to match peak Rubidium
08:34:05  <TrueBrain> there is a difference between contributions and community andythenorth  ;)
08:34:07  <CornsMcGowan[m]> silicon is okay also
08:34:13  <CornsMcGowan[m]> yeah wowee who were they
08:34:15  <andythenorth> TrueBrain pls bring more stats
08:34:20  <CornsMcGowan[m]> could be a chicken-egg thing
08:34:29  <andythenorth>,%E2%80%9CIn%20God%20we%20trust%2C%20all%20others%20must%20bring%20data.,Edwards%20Deming
08:34:39  <TrueBrain> the amount of wiki visits, the amount of downloads of the game, the amount of content downloads, have been VERY stable for the last 10+ years ;)
08:34:49  <TrueBrain> in fact, it has increased with this covid stuff
08:34:55  <TrueBrain> more online servers and clients, for example
08:34:56  <andythenorth> I've been around since 2008, I think, mostly, the game is in the best shape ever
08:35:09  <TrueBrain> again, mixing up contributions vs community ;)
08:35:40  <CornsMcGowan[m]> yeah ive seen player numbers in multiplayer dwindle
08:35:48  <andythenorth> per server?
08:35:49  <TrueBrain> you have? Cool! You are seeing ghosts :D
08:35:54  <andythenorth> or max online at once?
08:36:00  <CornsMcGowan[m]> lmao
08:36:05  <CornsMcGowan[m]> per server
08:36:07  <andythenorth> we should get these stats, but PECR says no
08:36:09  <andythenorth> the content API has fallen in a hole, but otherwise game is in really good form
08:36:12  <CornsMcGowan[m]> like reddit S1 used to be max companies always
08:36:19  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: again, PECR doesn't hold in my country :P
08:36:31  <CornsMcGowan[m]> when i played in 1.4 ish
08:36:33  <andythenorth> ok, so gather the device data
08:36:42  <andythenorth> also I should unfuck my AWS
08:36:50  <andythenorth> and the cmake build fails on my computer
08:36:52  <CornsMcGowan[m]> also mobile app is tedious to use
08:36:54  <andythenorth> always work work work
08:36:57  <TrueBrain> CornsMcGowan[m]: local bias :)
08:37:07  <andythenorth> TrueBrain are you still gainfully employed?
08:37:21  <CornsMcGowan[m]> indeed local bias lmao
08:37:27  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: still are :)
08:37:27  <andythenorth>       no member named 'isunordered' in the global namespace
08:37:27  <andythenorth> using ::isunordered;
08:37:32  <CornsMcGowan[m]> wait do u mean with the server count
08:37:35  <CornsMcGowan[m]> or the mobile app
08:37:36  <andythenorth> ^^ that's because my mac is broken, right?
08:37:40  <TrueBrain> server-count
08:37:45  <CornsMcGowan[m]> ah yeah
08:38:22  <andythenorth> stupid broken Apple includes I think
08:38:27  * andythenorth way out of depth
08:38:43  <andythenorth> wipe disk and reinstall everything from scratch? o_O
08:39:35  <TrueBrain> but to give you a bit of an idea how popular OpenTTD is, we went from 4TB a month of traffic to 6+TB a month (April 2019 vs April 2020)
08:39:48  <dP> covid peak is already over, mp activity is nearing all time lows
08:39:51  <dP> it's seasonal though
08:40:01  <TrueBrain> dP: it always has been, yes :)
08:40:26  <TrueBrain> in the summer OpenTTD has a lot of crickets and tumbleweed :)
08:41:11  <TrueBrain> we went from 300k page hits to 400k page hits (June 2019 vs June 2020)
08:42:20  <LordAro> andythenorth: perhaps?
08:42:43  <andythenorth> LordAro oh looks hopeful, I'll try
08:42:50  <LordAro> there's a few other possible solutions a couple comments further down
08:42:53  <andythenorth> I was going to nuke homebrew and start again
08:43:24  <TrueBrain> OpenTTD Windows is downloaded 10k times in a single week in a random week in June 2020
08:43:43  <TrueBrain> so yeah .. it strongly depends on what you define as "community"; but OpenTTD is kinda popular :P (which I notice, as it is hard to give enough resources to the infra :D)
08:44:31  <andythenorth> hmm we already know the mac cmake build works right?
08:44:34  <andythenorth> other people tested it?
08:44:41  <andythenorth> so it's just my system that's borked?
08:44:49  <LordAro> well it's been a week, and no one else has said anything
08:44:52  <LordAro> the CI works too
08:48:18  * andythenorth tries pasting SO commands
08:48:35  <TrueBrain> Security Officer?
08:48:39  <andythenorth> I really try not to do that, it's the usual cause of the actual problem
08:48:39  <TrueBrain> Significant Other?
08:48:45  <Wolf01> Lol
08:48:50  <andythenorth> that website for Send Me The Codez PLZ
08:48:54  <andythenorth> can't remember it's name
08:49:22  <Wolf01> I also would like Significant Other commands, specially a "summon" or "spawn" or "create"
08:49:43  <TrueBrain> I am more interested in the "clean" and "cook" commands :P :P :P :P
08:50:20  * LordAro raises eyebrow
08:51:43  <andythenorth> TrueBrain I have those commands installed locally
08:51:48  <andythenorth> she uses them a lot
08:51:57  <andythenorth> also 'get out of bed and make tea'
08:52:07  <TrueBrain> be happy that is a single command
08:52:09  <TrueBrain> :P
08:52:15  <andythenorth> hmm I can't be fucked to fix my mac today
08:52:21  <andythenorth> it's too much like a day job
08:52:27  <andythenorth> I guess I just play old OpenTTD
08:52:36  <TrueBrain> or download the latest!
08:53:43  <andythenorth> official binaries!
08:53:49  <andythenorth> but they have a weird orange icon
08:53:56  <TrueBrain> spyware
08:54:01  <andythenorth> coin miner
08:56:24  <TrueBrain> so what shall we do today .. hmm ..
08:57:52  <CornsMcGowan[m]> be careful, it will install a program called openttd, and launching it will launch openttd on your computer
09:00:47  <andythenorth> TrueBrain I really should fix my AWS
09:00:55  <andythenorth> and draw some sprites also
09:00:55  <TrueBrain> so you keep telling us :P
09:01:03  <andythenorth> I am playing tanks though
09:01:15  <andythenorth> you keep asking!!
09:01:19  <andythenorth> oof :)
09:01:21  <TrueBrain> so I guess we will have to ask : how did you break AWS?
09:04:38  <andythenorth> I followed the instructions for a http site, and now I need to reverse them and follow the instructions for https
09:04:45  <andythenorth> I missed that it was XOR not OR
09:04:57  <andythenorth> there are docs for all of it
09:05:11  <TrueBrain> S3-websites cannot do https, so https has a completely different set of activities :P
09:05:12  <andythenorth> except that I'll need a cert to do www. according to docs
09:05:21  <andythenorth> everything else is just clicks
09:05:27  <TrueBrain> the cert is clicks too
09:05:31  <TrueBrain> AWS Certificates does it for you
09:05:39  <TrueBrain> well, you do have to type www. , that is true
09:06:38  <TrueBrain> and with the domain on Route53, validation is hitting the "Create DNS entry" in AWS Certificates :P
09:08:39  <andythenorth> ok, this will be done!
09:09:02  <TrueBrain> I want to implement a PPU emulator, but it is such a nag, as it is really timing specific
09:47:06  <andythenorth> hmm
09:53:21  <andythenorth> ok validating certs on AWS might take several hours
09:53:30  <andythenorth> and I've probably done it wrong :D so maybe a day or so
10:06:26  <andythenorth> ACM says my DNS validation config is invalid
10:10:40  * andythenorth finds more docs
10:13:05  <andythenorth> oof I should stay away from DNS :(
10:21:38  <andythenorth> I keep clicking 'create record in route 53'
10:24:30  <andythenorth> I have done this
10:24:37  <andythenorth> but ACM says I need to take further action
10:24:46  <andythenorth> the docs don't say what
10:25:26  <andythenorth> I have clicked 'Create record in Route 53' many times as that is the only button I can see
10:35:01  <andythenorth> patience grasshopper
10:35:04  <andythenorth> it validated
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10:36:10  <CornsMcGowan[m]> Revision text changed to jgrpp-0.34.4, savegame version 218, not modified, _openttd_newgrf_version = 0x1b086d64
10:36:11  <CornsMcGowan[m]> finally
10:36:41  <CornsMcGowan[m]> does that mean its impossible to add my own commits to JGRPP and keep mp compatibility?
10:37:12  <CornsMcGowan[m]> nvm i still can't join mp games
10:39:05  <CornsMcGowan[m]> for comparison, release client .exe is
10:39:06  <CornsMcGowan[m]> Revision text changed to jgrpp-0.34.4, savegame version 218, not modified, _openttd_newgrf_version = 0x1b006d64
10:40:52  <andythenorth> " To add an alternate domain name (CNAME) to a CloudFront distribution, you must attach a trusted certificate that validates your authorization to use the domain name."
10:40:59  <andythenorth> there is no option to add a cert
10:46:13  <CornsMcGowan[m]> my compiled linux client is
10:46:13  <CornsMcGowan[m]> Revision text changed to jgrpp-0.34.4, savegame version 218, not modified, _openttd_newgrf_version = 0x1b006d64
10:46:22  <CornsMcGowan[m]> so it seems something strange is happening on my end
10:48:47  <CornsMcGowan[m]> > ah no the '8' is stable release marker
10:48:47  <CornsMcGowan[m]> from glx
10:58:06  <andythenorth> oh AWS :P
10:58:10  <andythenorth> it's so nearly good :P
11:04:56  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: Certificate validation can take up to 20 minutes, yes :)
11:05:05  <andythenorth> you have to use the right region also :P
11:05:12  <andythenorth> 'oops'
11:05:18  <TrueBrain> yeah, CloudFront is weird like that
11:05:22  <TrueBrain> it has to be in Virginia
11:05:35  <TrueBrain> it is weird that certificates are not global tbfh
11:06:03  <TrueBrain> any lambda@edge also has to be in N. Virginia
11:07:41  <andythenorth> the docs for that are in the 'why it doesn't work' page :D
11:07:46  <andythenorth> not the 'how to do it' page :D
11:14:08  <TrueBrain> yeah, but once you know, you know
11:14:21  <TrueBrain> I even forgot about telling you about it, because it is so obvious once you know :P
11:15:55  <andythenorth> so I have a cert, an s3 bucket, a domain name on route 53, and a cloudfront distribution
11:16:02  <andythenorth> I just need to connect them up
11:16:17  <TrueBrain> in CF, you can link it to your S3 .. the GUI does the lookup for you even
11:16:23  <andythenorth> that's done
11:16:30  <TrueBrain> you linked the cert to your CF?
11:16:45  <TrueBrain> you can already visit the CF link to check if it serves your page correctly
11:16:54  <TrueBrain> (the blablabla.cloudfront.something)
11:17:07  <TrueBrain> once your cert is linked, you only have to change the DNS to point to the CF
11:17:10  <TrueBrain> (via Alias)
11:18:14  <andythenorth> I think the cert is done
11:18:18  <andythenorth> I think the DNS is done
11:18:29  <andythenorth> but I might need an Identity?
11:18:37  <andythenorth> origin access identity?
11:18:45  <andythenorth>
11:18:48  <TrueBrain> you can do that, yes
11:19:00  <TrueBrain> the OAI gives CloudFront access in your S3, if your S3 is non-public (which is a good thing)
11:19:09  <TrueBrain> simply create the OAI, and set in your S3 that it has access
11:19:15  <andythenorth> ah ha
11:19:19  <TrueBrain> but as you can see, the webflow works
11:19:27  <TrueBrain> and least privilege kicked in nice :D
11:20:08  <TrueBrain> I do all this via CDK, so not sure where to add the OAI . .let me check :D
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11:21:16  <TrueBrain> ah, bucket policy
11:23:36  * andythenorth in policy generator
11:24:28  <andythenorth> seems to not have the correct magic button
11:24:42  <TrueBrain> after you did all that, make sure to invalidate cache
11:24:49  <TrueBrain> the access denied page is most likely also cached ;)
11:25:54  <andythenorth> another button to click :)  Is that cloudfront?
11:26:12  <TrueBrain> yes
11:26:26  <TrueBrain> in the tab Invalidations
11:26:28  <TrueBrain> invalidate *
11:26:36  <TrueBrain> or /* I believe
11:26:38  <andythenorth> k thx
11:26:54  <TrueBrain> owh, I see it does not cache it atm, so that is not it :D
11:26:59  <TrueBrain> you added an OAI to CF?
11:27:27  <andythenorth> I have one yes
11:27:48  <andythenorth> I had many due to failed creations with the cert, I've cleaned those up
11:28:13  <andythenorth> ok bucket policy now updated
11:28:18  <TrueBrain>
11:28:20  <andythenorth> when the magic works, it's magic
11:28:23  <TrueBrain> I have that bucket policy
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11:29:53  <andythenorth> I got given this by CF
11:29:59  <TrueBrain> in your distribution, you selected the OAI?
11:30:27  <TrueBrain> Distribution -> Origin settings -> Your identities?
11:30:33  <andythenorth> yup
11:30:44  <andythenorth> just waiting on invalidation
11:30:47  <TrueBrain> lol, it can even generate the permissions
11:30:49  <andythenorth> maybe it works, maybe it doesn't
11:30:51  <TrueBrain> did not know that :)
11:30:54  <andythenorth> everything is magic
11:30:58  <andythenorth> if you read the correct doc
11:31:20  <TrueBrain> I doubt the cache is the issue, as you get a new RequestId every time
11:31:26  <TrueBrain> doesn't feel like a caching issue :)
11:31:45  <TrueBrain> so you also selected the "Grant Read Permissions on Bucket" -> "Yes, Update" option?
11:33:14  <andythenorth> yes
11:33:24  <andythenorth> that created the policy on S3
11:33:39  <andythenorth> is 's3:GetObject' enough?
11:33:40  <TrueBrain> that should be sufficient, as far as I know :P
11:33:48  <TrueBrain> if that is what it generated, I guess it is :)
11:33:55  <TrueBrain> what is a valid file?
11:34:00  <TrueBrain> (remember, it does not do index.html for you)
11:34:05  <TrueBrain> so what URL should be valid?
11:34:58  <andythenorth>
11:35:04  <andythenorth> should be valid
11:35:17  <TrueBrain> and the distribution is Active (not Updating)?
11:35:40  <andythenorth> status 'in progress' (spinning icon)
11:35:57  <TrueBrain> okay, so it might still be distributing the OAI over all the edgelocations
11:36:04  <andythenorth> I give it some patience and see
11:39:24  <TrueBrain> otherwise, if you did all the above, it should work, I think .. cannot remember I did anything else :P
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11:48:56  <TrueBrain> hmm .. Project Ozone 3 Kappa mode .. I guess that would keep me busy for the weekend
11:49:07  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I see an "Hello World" here now
11:49:17  <andythenorth> you do? o_O
11:49:48  <andythenorth> winner
11:49:50  <andythenorth>
11:50:04  <TrueBrain> gratz :)
11:50:21  <andythenorth>
11:50:30  <andythenorth> that is a LOT more work than http :D
11:50:40  <andythenorth> wonder how much CF will cost me :)
11:51:01  <andythenorth> if I get nuisance DoSed, this will be an expensive hobby
11:54:43  <andythenorth> www. works as well?
11:56:20  <TrueBrain> does for me
11:56:24  <TrueBrain> and the cost should be near zero
11:56:30  <TrueBrain> bandwidth from CF to S3 is free
11:56:39  <TrueBrain> and CF is the same bandwidth cost as S3 for most regions
11:56:43  <TrueBrain> (just not all :P)
11:56:54  <TrueBrain> you can restrict that if you like, to only the cheapest price
11:57:06  <TrueBrain> but for OpenTTD it did nothing for the monthly price, basically
11:58:58  <andythenorth> awesome
11:59:25  <andythenorth> for next andythenorth-adventure
11:59:37  <andythenorth> pushing content to S3 via API
12:00:35  <TrueBrain> aws s3 sync / put
12:00:36  <TrueBrain> :)
12:03:50  <andythenorth> first locally, then maybe GH actions
12:03:58  <Eddi|zuHause> fish farm image doesn't load?
12:04:03  <andythenorth> it's missing
12:04:08  <andythenorth> haven't drawn it
12:04:33  <andythenorth> maybe I have a 'not drawn yet' image somewhere
12:04:35  <andythenorth> I should look
12:05:20  <Eddi|zuHause> an "under construction" image like in the 90s :p
12:06:38  <milek7> some images are broken
12:06:43  <milek7>
12:06:59  <milek7> ah
12:07:03  <milek7> so access denied is 404?
12:07:16  <TrueBrain> access denied is andythenorth being too lazy to set a 404 error page :P
12:08:36  <andythenorth> there's a magic button for that somewhere
12:08:54  <TrueBrain> in CF you can set the page to load for 404s
12:09:06  <CornsMcGowan[m]> wheres the 418
12:19:24  <andythenorth> ok so for local AWS scripts, I create an IAM, then provision creds into some file in ~
12:19:27  <andythenorth> ?
12:22:09  <TrueBrain> aws configure
12:22:37  <andythenorth> I suppose it's no scarier than git creds :P
12:23:22  * andythenorth wonders why more people don't poison open source projects
12:23:29  <andythenorth> the review standards are often low
12:37:18  <Eddi|zuHause> open source hasn't gone the social media route yet
12:41:58  <andythenorth> 'everything is awful'?
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12:49:34  <CornsMcGowan[m]> everything is cruel when you're part of a team
12:49:46  <CornsMcGowan[m]> wdym poison
12:53:22  <CornsMcGowan[m]> oh like this ?
13:03:33  <CornsMcGowan[m]> its bizarre seeing these guys talk about subversion
13:38:19  <andythenorth> do I need to run CF invalidations every time content changes?
13:38:22  <andythenorth> or just patience?
13:40:12  <andythenorth> 24hr TTL
13:46:29  <andythenorth> hmm I can't make the Default Root Object work
13:46:44  <andythenorth> the instructions here conflict with the actual UI instructions
13:47:49  <andythenorth> "For example, if you designate the file index.html as your default root object"
13:47:57  <andythenorth> but you can't designate index.html
13:48:04  <andythenorth> you can only designate /index.html
13:48:09  <andythenorth> which the docs say isn't allowed
13:48:13  <andythenorth> but the UI says is required
13:51:53  <andythenorth> ha think I found it
13:57:25  <b_jonas> you know how, when a town decides where to grow houses, it seems to consider long bridges as just one or two tiles of road distance? I should try to abuse that to get interesting town shapes
13:57:32  <b_jonas> next game that is
13:58:10  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: you want to invalidate every time you overwrite a file, yes
13:58:19  <b_jonas> hmm, does that work for tunnels too?
13:58:32  <b_jonas> that would be even easier because I can tunnel under buildings
13:58:37  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: and you can only set the / file, so the root root index .. not the folder index
13:58:44  <TrueBrain> that is why you can only do /index.html
13:58:55  <andythenorth> yup
13:59:04  <andythenorth> so I'll write a script to manage uploads
13:59:06  <andythenorth> and invalidations
13:59:07  <andythenorth> yay
13:59:51  <andythenorth> it's all a bit day-job :D
14:00:03  <andythenorth> whereas drawing small trains is never my day job :P
14:00:16  <TrueBrain> might give you inspiration
14:00:33  <andythenorth> yes!
14:00:53  <andythenorth> I think for extra lolz, I will make GH Actions do the uploading on push
14:00:56  <andythenorth> extra things to debug!
14:00:59  <andythenorth> more latency!
14:01:10  <TrueBrain> or you just copy the commands in there in a shell script
14:01:12  <TrueBrain> but that is just me :P
14:02:56  <b_jonas> hmm, I just don't see how the oil loop could work on this map
14:04:05  <b_jonas> ooh, I can change the colors of an individual group of trains? wow, I didn't know that, that might be useful
14:05:10  <CornsMcGowan[m]> indeed
14:05:17  <CornsMcGowan[m]> i sort cargo types into diff colours
14:07:46  <andythenorth> can anyone figure out what's being asked here?
14:08:02  <andythenorth> communication difficulties :)
14:11:59  <andythenorth> hmm, if I keep all versioned docs in a github repo
14:12:05  <andythenorth> it might grow to 1GB
14:12:09  <andythenorth> bad?
14:12:46  <andythenorth> the docs dir is maybe 5MB average
14:12:50  <CornsMcGowan[m]> whats the dl file they linked
14:13:03  <andythenorth> they're just docs
14:15:58  <andythenorth> maybe each grf should publish its docs as artefacts
14:16:09  <andythenorth> and then they can be copied to
14:16:15  <andythenorth> so many options :P
14:24:09  <nielsm> better in-game documentation viewer?
14:25:31  <TrueBrain> in-game documentation viewer?
14:25:34  <TrueBrain> (there, I fixed it :P)
14:26:28  <nielsm> there is already a text file viewer
14:26:32  <nielsm> it's just not very good
14:26:51  <nielsm> also addon authors are really bad at actually writing documentation and including it
14:26:57  <nielsm> which is more difficult to fix
14:28:51  <nielsm> like, when I open the readme file (which is only included for a third of grfs) I expect to find some information on the kind of items included, how to configure it, and what their intended gameplay use is... and most of the time it seems to be just some generic readme with barely anything useful
14:39:40  <andythenorth> some of mine are like that
14:40:21  <andythenorth> I neglect the readme, it's not easily automated :P
14:47:27  <b_jonas> CornsMcGowan[m]: different cargo already has somewhat different looking wagons, but this will be useful for me for oil trains to different destinations
14:48:17  <b_jonas> that reminds me, I mustn't forget to include a tram grf for my next game
14:48:29  <b_jonas> I don't plan to use trams much, but it can't hurt to have them available
14:52:14  <andythenorth> hmm something something about lambdas to add security headers
14:52:18  <andythenorth> is that needed?
14:52:39  <andythenorth>
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15:05:35  <b_jonas> is there a setting somewhere to mute the starts screen? it's too noisy with all those vehicles, it's distracting
15:06:46  <nielsm> nope, nothing that affects just the title game
15:26:04  <b_jonas> oh well, I'll just use the general volume control then
15:26:18  <b_jonas> or maybe replace the title screen save, how do I do that?
15:32:03  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: STS can be useful, but the rest .. you don't have anything dynamic on your side
15:32:08  <TrueBrain> so XSS is .. well ... there is nothing to XSS :P
15:32:23  <nielsm> opntitle.dat, just replace that with another savegame
15:32:32  <TrueBrain> Referrer policy can be useful, but meh ..
15:32:39  <TrueBrain> I didn't bother for OpenTTD, lets put it that way
15:33:15  <nielsm> or you can even just delete opntitle.dat to get a blank map for title screen instead
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16:26:28  <supermop_Home> yo
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16:38:28  <b_jonas> wait, so maglev wagons have a larger capacity than monorail wagons? then I'll have to upgrade all my wagons on all my trains now
16:39:54  <b_jonas> (I'm playing with the "Progressive rail set v2" newgrf that lets me run monorails on maglev tracks, smoothing the upgrade.)
16:58:13  <supermop_Home> i mean it's really based on what the author of the maglev set chooses?
16:59:00  <supermop_Home> realistically there is no particular reason maglev  would be of larger capacity than monorail generally
17:00:14  <supermop_Home> but in the vanilla set of vehicles, maglev is just sort of a universally significantly 'better' train, and the expense of not being able to reuse your rail tracks
17:01:09  <supermop_Home> if you choose to use a newgrf to remove this distinction, you could also do the same to change the capacity to whatever you want
17:15:11  <CornsMcGowan[m]> hi all, need some input on my implementation (canal planner tool)
17:15:11  <CornsMcGowan[m]>
17:15:11  <CornsMcGowan[m]> at 43 seconds, two locks are built that block another canal - should I add an option to avoid this? i.e. avoid building locks over existing canal/river tiles?
17:46:43  <b_jonas> wow, this vacuum train grf is realistic in that vac train tracks are very expensive
17:47:25  <b_jonas> supermop_Home: yeah, I just didn't know that it increased the capacity so much
17:52:37  <andythenorth> oof I need a commit before cmake
17:52:58  <andythenorth> ok found one
17:57:13  <supermop_Home> andythenorth
17:57:30  <andythenorth> "Is this item actually in stock? No, this item has sold out."
17:58:00  <andythenorth> supermop_Home but I have pre-ordered
17:58:05  <supermop_Home> why be concise when you can hold an imaginary conversation with the shopper?
17:59:04  <supermop_Home> will that be in swallow or gner?
18:01:29  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Hexus-One opened pull request #8262: Fix: typo in Australian English translation of tooltip setting.
18:01:38  <supermop_Home> what is provincial?
18:01:46  <supermop_Home>
18:02:37  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8262: Fix: typo in Australian English translation of tooltip setting.
18:02:38  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed pull request #8262: Fix: typo in Australian English translation of tooltip setting.
18:05:01  <andythenorth> supermop_Home regional railways
18:05:06  <andythenorth> is provincial
18:05:11  <supermop_Home> ah that's what i need
18:05:21  <supermop_Home> that or wypte
18:05:37  <andythenorth> the maroon and cream?
18:06:01  <supermop_Home> i remember it being more red than maroon but maybe?
18:06:36  <supermop_Home> also need one of the emus that went to ilkley, was red with an assload of doors down the side
18:06:42  <supermop_Home> mk1 body
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18:09:13  <CornsMcGowan[m]> LordAro: can i pm you regarding my recent PR
18:09:38  <LordAro> you can just ask me here
18:10:31  <CornsMcGowan[m]> part of it is sensitive and I'd prefer to PM
18:10:52  <CornsMcGowan[m]> but i guess i can ask - am i able to contribute to the webtranslator?
18:11:00  <CornsMcGowan[m]> or how do i go about it?
18:12:55  <LordAro> CornsMcGowan[m]: an email asking to become the translator for a particular language can be sent to
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18:13:19  <supermop_Home> wtf is an O scale 117 over 800 quid?
18:13:54  <CornsMcGowan[m]> oh i didn't realise that was required
18:14:31  <LordAro> (we know it's a bit broken and the whole thing will be rewritten to work with GH auth (like bananas) Soonᵀᴹ)
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18:17:39  <andythenorth> supermop_Home probably a 504
18:17:45  * andythenorth guesses train numbers
18:18:17  <andythenorth> 308
18:18:28  <andythenorth>
18:18:48  <supermop_Home> looks right
18:20:25  <supermop_Home> love these:
18:20:47  <andythenorth> odd you should say that
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18:21:02  <supermop_Home> what ever happened to british rail graphic design
18:21:12  <andythenorth> I have this one
18:21:42  <supermop_Home> do you have the matching wagons?
18:21:57  <andythenorth> yes
18:22:08  <andythenorth> and some royal mail red, not all unified
18:22:10  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro reopened pull request #8262: Fix: typo in Australian English translation of tooltip setting.
18:22:18  <andythenorth> I want this
18:22:32  <andythenorth> RfD is not always the best sector scheme, but on that engine it looks rad
18:22:48  <supermop_Home> yeah
18:23:03  <andythenorth> supermop_Home there's not much good on twitter, but there is this:
18:23:06  <supermop_Home> oil sector is the best
18:23:21  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Hexus-One updated pull request #8262: Fix: typo in Australian English translation of tooltip setting.
18:23:38  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed pull request #8262: Fix: typo in Australian English translation of tooltip setting.
18:23:46  <supermop_Home> damn that 143 is nice
18:24:01  <andythenorth> I just got this
18:24:05  <andythenorth> trains are the new trainers
18:24:34  <supermop_Home> unfortunately i don't know if i can stop buying one in favor of the other
18:24:41  <supermop_Home> just got some ACG sandals
18:24:54  <supermop_Home> now i need to buy more hype socks to wear with them
18:25:08  <andythenorth> as I never go outside
18:25:14  <andythenorth> I have trainer supplies for life
18:25:40  <supermop_Home> what if they release some railfreight sector Air Maxes?
18:25:48  <andythenorth> singularity event
18:26:05  <andythenorth> oof this FIRS compile is fast now
18:26:11  <andythenorth> you don't hear me say that much
18:27:09  <supermop_Home> grabbing lunch
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18:31:46  <andythenorth> hmm
18:32:00  <andythenorth> grfcodec is 2.7s where nml is 10s though
18:32:04  <andythenorth> maybe I can go faster :P
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20:02:56  <supermop_Home> well looks like i didn't miss much
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20:09:27  <supermop_Home>
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20:32:21  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] hryniuk opened pull request #8263: Fix: refresh coverage on option switch
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21:43:13  <milek7> valve index wait times are ridiculous
21:43:21  <milek7> and no communication from valve at all
21:57:46  <b_jonas> argh, why does this train always claim that it's lost
21:58:01  <b_jonas> there's probably still something wrong with the track or signaling but I don't see what
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22:10:08  <b_jonas> ooh, I found teh bug
22:10:15  <b_jonas> it was a missing rail at the depots
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22:42:33  <b_jonas> hmm, my trains are getting stuck in a weird way
22:45:20  <b_jonas> ah I see
22:45:39  <b_jonas> the new track had a signal in the wrong direction, that's why the trains were looping
22:46:13  <FLHerne> It's always something like that ;-)
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23:28:16  <dP> hm, apparently you can set both tooltips and window close to right click...
23:29:01  <dP> I can understand window close but why right click tooltips are even a thing?
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23:32:51  <Eddi|zuHause> taht's inherited from the 1994 version of the game

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