Log for #openttd on 5th July 2020:
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08:19:53  <andythenorth> LordAro nml release? o_O
08:20:35  * andythenorth can't remember if we wait features, or one of us just stirring to do it
08:53:21  <andythenorth> looks quite straightforward
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09:58:39  <andythenorth> manually pushed, but now there's enough stuff to start scripting it :)
10:09:31  <andythenorth> nielsm can you remember why it is 'incoming_cargo_waiting("IRON")' instead of 'incoming_cargo_waiting("1")'?
10:09:50  <andythenorth> I know why I prefer the actual syntax, but we have one very confused / angry user
10:09:53  <andythenorth> oof :P
10:11:26  <andythenorth> oh nvm
10:11:32  * andythenorth does something more useful
10:27:47  <LordAro> andythenorth: xkcd workflow
10:27:53  <LordAro> but sure, nml release
10:28:07  <LordAro> you can put it together just as well as i can
10:36:57  <andythenorth> yup happy to
10:37:08  <andythenorth> just confirming we're not waiting on anything
10:37:25  <LordAro> you're more likely to know that than me
10:40:22  <andythenorth> FLHerne has been pretty good recently at knowing what's needed in nml :)
10:40:32  <andythenorth> I'll finish this stuff I'm doing and make the release
10:46:13  <nielsm> andythenorth: someone (can't remember if it was frosch or michi) campaigned to avoid as much of the "industry's cargo index" stuff in the new interface
10:46:21  <nielsm> and instead have everything work by cargolabel
10:47:01  <nielsm> the downside is that you can't share produce statements and callbacks between industries that can have different cargoes but behave the same
10:47:38  <andythenorth> the upside is you don't get 'Surprise!  You tried to access cargo by index, but it's the wrong one!"
10:48:10  <nielsm> yeah it prevents you from doing stupid tricks, but it enables you to write more robust code
10:49:44  <LordAro> mildly surprising that "1" is still a string
10:51:24  <nielsm> the way it's implemented in NML the incoming_cargo_waiting function would look up the index of "1" in the cargo translation table and write a property call with that index as parameter
10:51:41  <nielsm> but the ctt lookup fails, probably
10:51:55  <nielsm> since you shouldn't be able to put single-character strings in it
10:52:21  <LordAro> i guess so, but i'd expect an index to be a number
10:52:24  <nielsm> and that lookup happens on the nml side, before the grf is generated
10:52:36  <LordAro> purely a syntax oddity
10:52:47  <nielsm> like, the NML incoming_cargo_waiting function could be written to also take an integer instead
10:53:02  <nielsm> but that would be into the ctt, not into the order of cargoes accepted by the industry
11:00:48  <andythenorth> "1" isn't a string afaict, it's just author PEBKAC
11:30:02  <dP> why client mp name isn't in settings?
11:30:25  <dP> like, how new player is even supposed to change name while in game?
11:30:30  <dP> don't tell me with console :p
11:31:51  <andythenorth> this page is going to be a disaster
11:32:17  <andythenorth> The amount of 'output cargo type 1' that was produced this month. NML 0.5.0 - 0.5.2 Removed. Use this_month_production instead. NML 0.5.3 Deprecated. Use this_month_production instead.
11:33:47  <andythenorth> :D
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11:53:16  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] andythenorth opened pull request #159: Doc: Changelog for 0.5.3
11:53:40  <andythenorth> ^ I just put in all commits, we seem a bit uncertain about when to include nml internal codechanges or not, so I stuck them in
11:54:58  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro commented on pull request #159: Doc: Changelog for 0.5.3
11:57:31  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] andythenorth updated pull request #159: Doc: Changelog for 0.5.3
11:58:59  <nielsm> dP: good question, I've also wondered why the player name is so annoying to change
11:59:43  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] andythenorth updated pull request #159: Doc: Changelog for 0.5.3
12:00:21  <dP> nielsm, I wouldn't call it annoying, more like cumbersome
12:01:16  <nielsm> imo it should be in the game options
12:01:17  <dP> nielsm, if anything it'd be better to be more annoying with smth like "please choose your name" popup when joining the server
12:01:35  <nielsm> also an option, if the player doesn't have a name set yet
12:01:58  <LordAro> just removing the default and forcing a popup if not set would probably be enough
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12:02:09  <dP> nielsm, at least if you ever add popups with inputs to gs I'm defenitely doing that for our servers xD
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12:02:33  <dP> but better to do on openttd side as servers can only change name temporarily
12:05:37  <andythenorth> ^^ changelog revised
12:13:12  <Eddi|zuHause> the problem with default values is that 99% will never change it
12:25:52  <Wolf01> Hmmm, so racism touched black/white hats too, because black/white for evil/good respectively is racist. I propose to switch to purple=good and yellow=evil. Yin Yang too.
12:26:31  <andythenorth> the problem isn't that it's intrinsically racist
12:26:48  <andythenorth> the problem is that it wastes a lot of time and distracts from actual real issues
12:27:05  <andythenorth> whitelist and blacklist have similar issues (e.g for IP listing etc)
12:27:58  <Wolf01> They even dropped master/slave for controllers
12:28:31  <Wolf01> Now I want them to come and fix the labels on my old IDE drives
12:28:54  <Wolf01> Fuck people, covid isn't doing enough
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12:45:07  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc opened pull request #8264: Add: [CMake] Source group definitions for MSVC project filters.
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12:47:43  <FLHerne> andythenorth/LordAro: It's glx who has big changes in this version
12:50:04  <FLHerne> I'd like for 0.5.3, it's less broken than what we have now
12:50:22  <FLHerne> Actually, I don't think frosch's comment is correct anyway
12:53:09  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne commented on pull request #150: Fix #147: rounding issues
12:54:02  <FLHerne> And do we want ?
12:56:04  <andythenorth> I want 155
12:56:08  <andythenorth> but there's always 0.5.4
12:56:13  <andythenorth> releases are so cheap
12:57:55  <andythenorth> 155 wfm in tests
12:58:02  <andythenorth> code review is beyond what I can sensibly do
12:59:21  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne commented on pull request #159: Doc: Changelog for 0.5.3
12:59:57  <FLHerne> Oh, and I think we ideally want a warnings filter, those are very spammy
13:00:03  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro commented on pull request #155: Add: Support for parameters in switches
13:00:11  <FLHerne> Can probably wait for 0.5.4 though
13:00:35  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] andythenorth updated pull request #159: Doc: Changelog for 0.5.3
13:05:59  <FLHerne> LordAro: Why did you delete your comment? I was about to reply to it
13:06:11  <LordAro> FLHerne: i'm doing a full review instead :)
13:06:19  <LordAro> 5 mins
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13:08:27  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro requested changes for pull request #155: Add: Support for parameters in switches
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13:18:01  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8264: Add: [CMake] Source group definitions for MSVC project filters.
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13:26:45  <andythenorth> meh
13:26:53  <andythenorth> need to do a numeric sort on strings
13:26:57  <andythenorth> classic version number problem
13:27:08  <LordAro> sort -V
13:27:09  <andythenorth> 3.0.1, 3.0.10, 3.0.9
13:27:52  <andythenorth> can't just split on x.y.z, because there are some like 4.0.0-alpha-3
13:29:05  <andythenorth> seems setuptools has tooling for it
13:32:55  <supermop_Home> good morning
13:37:40  <andythenorth> oh wow
13:38:03  <andythenorth> by complete accident, the python packaging library parses 4.0.0-alpha-3 as 4.0.0a3
13:38:11  <andythenorth> that's helpful
13:51:00  <andythenorth> ok that works, stack overflow delivered :D
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13:51:42  * andythenorth needs more hours in the day
13:51:46  <andythenorth> Monday approaches :x
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13:54:37  <dP> hm, is there any way to inherit class defined in another cpp file?
13:54:42  <dP> besides including that cpp I guess
13:55:00  <nielsm> you need the full class declaration to inherit from it
13:55:11  <nielsm> not necessarily the implementation
13:55:33  <dP> nielsm, yeah, it's also declared in cpp
13:55:37  <dP> not in hpp
13:55:59  <nielsm> yep then you can't
13:56:44  <LordAro> (without moving the declaration)
13:57:39  <dP> I kinda wanted to patch that class without messing the original file too much
13:58:27  <nielsm> you'd have to move the class def to a header then to include in both places
13:58:53  <dP> can I have 2 class {} blocks?
13:59:15  <nielsm> no
14:00:25  <dP> then splitting declaration is way too much changes already :(
14:03:16  <supermop_Home> is multiple unit working for model trains a thing?
14:04:55  <FLHerne> I've seen it done
14:05:20  <nielsm> I'm sure it's possible with digital controls
14:05:43  <andythenorth> I have pictures on devzone I think
14:05:47  <supermop_Home> hm
14:05:50  <andythenorth> but devzone really is dead
14:06:37  <andythenorth> nvm
14:07:10  <supermop_Home> what about buying like, two DMU models, one with DCC and one without, and coupling them together? can the one control drive both motors if wired together?
14:07:49  <FLHerne> supermop_Home: If you only want to uncouple in predetermined places, there are electromagnet-based solutions for most common couplers
14:08:35  <FLHerne> (or physical -- there's a version for uncoupling UK hook/loop couplers with basically a disk on a vertical solenoid)
14:08:57  <supermop_Home> i recall pacers on Harrogate line often running in like 4 or 5 car rakes
14:09:18  <FLHerne> If you permanently wired them together, sure
14:09:25  <supermop_Home> which would mean i'd have to buy two sets, they don't seem to make dummy only pacers
14:09:28  <FLHerne> You'd have to check the current rating on the decoder
14:09:44  <FLHerne> But there are plenty of high-current ones
14:09:50  <andythenorth> oh here we go
14:10:18  <andythenorth> 7 units, DC one hornby trainset controller
14:10:28  <FLHerne> Probably easier to just fit decoders to both though
14:10:38  <FLHerne> They're pretty cheap now
14:10:45  <andythenorth> I have loads in a box
14:10:45  <supermop_Home> warrant buffet is weeping tears of joy at all that bnsf andy
14:10:47  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #8264: Add: [CMake] Source group definitions for MSVC project filters.
14:10:52  <andythenorth> I strip the DCC out of everything
14:11:32  <supermop_Home> warren... oops
14:12:21  <FLHerne> Why?
14:12:34  <supermop_Home> no luck on gner 43s or 91s so far, now trying to decide between blue or executive for 43
14:12:38  <FLHerne> Decoders should work fine on DC unless you're doing something weird
14:12:55  <andythenorth> a lot of the US ones don't
14:13:09  <andythenorth> might be because the Hornby trainset controllers are PWM (I think)
14:13:18  <andythenorth> some simply trip the controller
14:13:30  <andythenorth> some only go one direction, no matter which way the polarity is set
14:14:16  <andythenorth> the Hornby controllers trip if you look at them wrong
14:15:00  <FLHerne> That part I remember
14:15:22  <FLHerne> The ones I have aren't PWM though
14:15:28  <FLHerne> (had? I think I threw them out)
14:15:49  <andythenorth> PWM is quite good, Lego motors do the same, increases torque at lower rotation speeds
14:16:03  <andythenorth> but it's notchy, and makes a hideous noise
14:16:30  <andythenorth> ok so, I have maybe a few hundred MB of versioned grf docs
14:16:37  <andythenorth> I don't want to push them all to S3 everytime
14:16:54  <andythenorth> so either S3 might have a way to diff files without downloading all of them?
14:17:09  <andythenorth> or I could write a checksum file into every versioned directory?
14:17:19  <andythenorth>
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14:33:16  <andythenorth> maybe ETag
14:34:49  <CornsMcGowan[m]> what about EToll
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14:38:30  <b_jonas> I have a big oil refinery station trains can exit on three tracks in the middle and enter on two tracks on the north or two tracks on the south. all the trains come and go to the same long mainline that starts at that station. but the trains wouldn't route this well, they almost always want to enter on the two north tracks, probably because that's shorter.
14:38:47  <b_jonas> so I think I'll try to convert this to a roro station in a big circle
14:40:17  <CornsMcGowan[m]> b_jonas: you should join the openTTD discord
14:40:31  <CornsMcGowan[m]> so u can upload pictures for us to see
14:40:45  <b_jonas> I could probably upload pictures even without that
14:40:53  <CornsMcGowan[m]> indeed
14:40:59  <CornsMcGowan[m]> i think its a signalling issue
14:41:07  <CornsMcGowan[m]> can u send a pic?
14:41:16  <b_jonas> yes, wait a minute
14:41:39  <CornsMcGowan[m]> theres also 3 JGR servers associated to the openttd discord
14:43:42  <dP> o_O how did I miss #7850
14:43:59  <CornsMcGowan[m]> hm?
14:44:00  <dP> unfortunately SPACE hotkey it added doesn't work properly as it's still hardcoded to news and errors
14:44:42  <CornsMcGowan[m]>
14:44:46  <CornsMcGowan[m]> oh lmao
14:44:49  <CornsMcGowan[m]> hardcoded :0
14:45:25  <CornsMcGowan[m]> oh so this is so you can bind yet more buttons to hotkeys
14:45:48  <dP> funnily enough I still have more in cmclient :p
14:48:28  <CornsMcGowan[m]> lmao
14:48:40  <dP> though they probably only work with sdl and most people don't even have such keys xD
14:48:51  <CornsMcGowan[m]> whats sdl :0
14:49:03  <dP> video driver
14:49:10  <dP> (in openttd context)
14:49:20  <CornsMcGowan[m]> ah
14:49:45  <CornsMcGowan[m]> seems i've yet a lot to learn
14:49:56  <LordAro> there's always more
14:50:19  <CornsMcGowan[m]> have the cmclient hotkeys/keybinds/whatever its called ever been PR'ed to trunk?
14:50:47  <dP> well, parts of openttd I haven't yet touched are quickly becoming extinct...
14:51:04  <dP> and somehow I'm not that happy about it :/
14:51:12  <CornsMcGowan[m]> :c such as what
14:51:19  <b_jonas> CornsMcGowan[m]: busy station
14:51:48  <dP> CornsMcGowan[m], I think TheDude pr something like that ages ago
14:52:03  <dP> but since it wasn't accepted noone tried since
14:52:11  <CornsMcGowan[m]> e.g. ones i use a lot off the top of my head: F/ctrl-F to build station, R for new vehicle, g for orders, all the extra ctrl-shift-alt click options while setting orders, q to exit order window, f to start vehicle, c to clone vehicle,
14:52:18  <CornsMcGowan[m]> wasn't accepted :c
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14:52:58  <CornsMcGowan[m]> lemme find this closed PR
14:53:40  <dP> also there is a question of assigning reasonable defaults to them, I use highly custom keyboard so no idea what key would be reasonable for normal people xD
14:54:21  <CornsMcGowan[m]> wouldn't it be reasonable to just leave it as an option with no default set
14:54:25  <dP> lately I just add hotkeys without defaults xD
14:55:07  <Eddi|zuHause> b_jonas: looks like your trains have too many options
14:55:35  <Eddi|zuHause> b_jonas: give them less options and they're more likely to pick an optimal one
14:55:45  <b_jonas> Eddi|zuHause: yes, a ro-ro station would solve that too
14:55:55  <dP> imo for vanilla it would be better to assign something to useful hotkeys so that most people can communicate
14:56:02  <dP> but for cmclient I can't be bothered :p
14:56:39  <CornsMcGowan[m]> i guess cmclient userbase is a bit more tech inclined
14:58:34  <CornsMcGowan[m]> b_jonas: thats a lot of depots - are you playing with breakdowns enabled?
15:00:32  <b_jonas> CornsMcGowan[m]: yes, breakdowns are enabled
15:00:42  <CornsMcGowan[m]> oh goodness
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15:01:21  * CornsMcGowan[m] sent a long message:  < >
15:03:29  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe next time stick to single-line messages :)
15:03:51  <Eddi|zuHause> looks like the matrix-irc bridge doesn't handle them well
15:04:47  <andythenorth> for my next adventure, I need some AWS IAM identities :P
15:04:53  <andythenorth> preferably maximum tinfoil
15:06:59  <CornsMcGowan[m]> oops i have no clue what it looks like on the IRC end
15:07:23  <CornsMcGowan[m]> what do y'all think about the breakdown system from chris sawyer's locomotion
15:07:32  <CornsMcGowan[m]> ie. affects engines independently
15:09:42  <Borg> quick question about GS.... is int 32bit or 64bit in OpenTTD?
15:13:23  <nielsm> typedef __int64 SQInteger;
15:13:34  <nielsm> looks like squirrel's integer type is 64 bit
15:13:59  <nielsm> not sure why it's declared with __int64 instead of int64_t though
15:14:00  <CornsMcGowan[m]> inb4 cursed 128 bit int
15:14:50  <Borg> oh.. ok thx.
15:15:22  <nielsm> and the float type is 32 bit
15:15:36  <Borg> doh...
15:15:38  <LordAro> nielsm: because the code is ancient, probably
15:18:38  <CornsMcGowan[m]> tfw no consistent deterministic double arithmetic between platforms
15:22:01  <b_jonas> as for depots, I should probably start to add explicit service orders, because trains too often make stupid choices when they want to find a depot
15:25:39  <dP> b_jonas, you can set service interval to 700 days and just force service them
15:25:40  <dP> but at that point there is no sense to even having breakdowns enabled tbh
15:26:45  <Borg> okey.. also, I can call 2 times ChangeBankBalance() in same tick in GS? no issues at all?
15:34:56  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc opened pull request #8265: Fix: [CMake] Re-enable multi-threaded compilation for MSVC project files
15:37:45  <b_jonas> dP: I'll consider breakdowns disabled for the next game, but it sort of feels like cheating to me, because then I can just use the good engines early when they still have very low max reliability
15:38:28  <dP> b_jonas, cheating who? it's your own game, do whatever you like
15:38:59  <dP> a lot of people including me just find breakdown mechanics broken and never play with it
15:41:39  <dP> or, well, I guess I do rarely play with breakdowns in mp events but then I just do that stupid 700 day workaround
15:41:41  <Borg> same here.. Hate it..
15:41:55  <Borg> b_jonas: what grfs you use?
15:48:45  <Borg> damn. 5% interest rate.. is more fun ;)
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16:01:40  <b_jonas> dP: exactly, I play whatever I like, which is allowing breakdowns
16:03:27  <b_jonas> Borg: Vactrain set 1.0.1 (but no vactrains yet), Progressive Rail Set v2 (allows smooth upgrade from ordinary tracks to monorail then monorail to maglev), plus town names and several grfs that add new station tiles and objects, most importantly Industrial Stations Renewal 1.0.2
16:04:11  <b_jonas> other people consider the Progressive Rail Set like cheating, it's their decision for their games
16:05:42  <b_jonas> oops, yes, there was at least one reversed signal, I'll have to look at this new station for a while to find all problems
16:05:47  <b_jonas> but it's much simpler than the previous station
16:05:53  <Borg> b_jonas: yeah.. its all up to player.. I prefer other aproach
16:06:03  <b_jonas> and higher capacity, in exchange for the trains taking a slightly longer route
16:06:09  <Borg> I merge maglev into monorail.. so I have to do upgrade once.. and I also like monorail gfx better..
16:06:30  <Borg> I play mostly vanilla....
16:06:53  <Borg> woo. hard random game.. here.. no city.. all towns
16:07:04  <Borg> and Ineed to grow them.. for goods dump ;)
16:17:43  <Borg> okey.. that Auto Loan GS is neat...
16:22:54  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 commented on pull request #155: Add: Support for parameters in switches
16:23:35  <dP> Borg, auto loan? what's that?
16:23:50  <Borg> dP: I wrote GS that handles loan for player...
16:24:10  <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: You've seen this?
16:24:12  <Borg> higher interest rate (configurable) and max loan is 5M up to 25M configurable
16:24:33  <Borg> when cash drops <200000 u get additional loan +500000
16:24:45  <Borg> when cash is >1500000 u pay off 500000
16:24:51  <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: not yet
16:25:10  <Borg> min interest rate 5% max 10%
16:25:13  <michi_cc> "CETS" makes a come back.
16:25:33  <b_jonas> well sure, I play on easy settings too
16:26:02  <dP> higher max loan should just be configurable in the game imo
16:26:13  <Borg> dP: up to 1M only
16:26:16  <Borg> u cant go higher..
16:26:43  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Should BSPI be on FIRS' incompatible grfs list?
16:26:53  <dP> I know, 500k actually if we talk GBP, but see no reason for it to not be higher
16:26:54  <Borg> yes!
16:27:32  <Borg> dP: yeah.. lets talk GBP.. all stuff earlier I gave was for GBP.. but well. dont ask me.. you cant set it higher..
16:27:37  <Borg> but.. GS for the rescue :)
16:28:19  <Borg> I also introduced tax.. from company value... 2x interest rate.. just for fun of it...
16:36:24  <Borg> hahah.. its briliant.. I should do it looong time ago
16:36:38  <Borg> also... that tax stuff is funny too.. now u can do tax evasion :)
16:36:44  <Borg> investing in shares of other companies
16:48:07  <b_jonas> Borg: that only works if there are other companies and they have value. I play alone.
16:48:43  <Borg> b_jonas: why you play alone?
16:48:55  <Borg> b_jonas: yeah... but as I said.. its for fun of it :)
16:49:22  <b_jonas> Borg: it's fun to build my own network as opposed to fighting other companies
16:49:58  <b_jonas> this way I get all the profit
16:50:12  <andythenorth> FLHerne probably yes
16:50:26  <Borg> b_jonas: haha...  have no friends to play OpenTTD?
16:50:40  <Borg> yeah.. I play alone too... because I play for fun....
16:51:05  <Borg> I had server in past.. but barelly.. others played
16:52:02  <b_jonas> if I wanted to play together, I'd rather play coop rather than competition
16:52:11  <b_jonas> but for now I want to learn how to build a nice impressive network
16:52:32  <b_jonas> I can't even say "all the profits" because I often go for a nicer network rather than a boring one with more income
16:52:38  <Borg> b_jonas: but playing w/ others u can learn faster :)
16:52:56  <b_jonas> sure, I'll have to try that at some point
16:53:04  <b_jonas> coop is interesting
16:53:09  <Borg> also.. its more fun.. if you like complicated railways
16:53:29  <Borg> because map is not empty anymore..
16:53:46  <b_jonas> yes, I like complicated railways. road vehicles and ships are just tools to eventually build a better railway network
16:53:54  <b_jonas> the railway network is the goal
16:54:04  <Borg> nice..
16:54:18  <Borg> well.... I could spawn a server right now... if you you like vanilla....
16:54:32  <Borg> BorgExt GS + BSPI v2.00 + X2025
16:54:48  <b_jonas> like, often I use buses/trucks or ships to keep an industry open or to increase my town authority rating
16:55:04  <b_jonas> Borg: no, I want to continue this game I started now
16:55:06  <Borg> im mostly industry dude... I do PAX only to grow cities..
16:55:17  <b_jonas> oh, I do make passenger networks too
16:55:30  <b_jonas> I want to try vacuum trains, I never really used them
16:55:33  <Borg> and I need them... for 2 reasons.... goods dumps.. and I need banks to produce more valuables.. to boost production
16:55:34  <b_jonas> at least not good ones
16:56:22  <b_jonas> in this game I've transferred all temperate cargo at some point in the game, valuables the least
16:56:32  <b_jonas> I started with an ugly wood+coal line
16:56:59  <b_jonas> but I got rid of that because with the slow trains I couldn't keep the station ratings up so most of the forests and mines closed
16:57:11  <b_jonas> but it was useful to generate early cash
16:57:15  <Borg> w00t? :) what date you started?
16:57:23  <b_jonas> 1950 I think
16:57:34  <b_jonas> coal is the best way to generate cash at that point
16:57:40  <Borg> cant you spam more trains? to get better rating?
16:57:53  <b_jonas> I added the wood because it was near the coal mines
16:58:12  <b_jonas> I could, but I didn't care too much about keeping that network for long, because coal doesn't net you much money in late game
16:58:31  <Borg> oh.. I dont build networks for money..
16:58:42  <b_jonas> now I have a large oil network instead, spanning the northeast half of the map
16:58:44  <Borg> I build them for one factor: delivery goods (aka tonnage)
16:58:59  <b_jonas> I didn't manage to turn it to a full circle, the southwest part seems harder to build in
16:59:19  <b_jonas> that's the big station I showed, at the oil refinery
16:59:23  <Borg> okey :) my basic network up.. coal for power station..
16:59:24  <b_jonas> and yes, it delivers goods as well
16:59:31  <Borg> and wood for goods.. and even city accept goods... :) so
16:59:38  <Borg> I have profits!
17:00:00  <b_jonas> besides that, I have a passenger network that forms a big C shape among about eight cities
17:00:24  <b_jonas> I'll look if I can upgrade part of it to vac train
17:00:30  <b_jonas> but I may have to wait for a better engine first
17:00:47  <Borg> you see ;P it would be fun to play together
17:00:56  <b_jonas> and then I have a small circular network with 6 iron mines, 2 steel works, and 2 factories
17:01:14  <b_jonas> it doesn't earn much, but also doesn't bother the other networks too much
17:02:07  <b_jonas> plus a single farm to factory line, just to keep the arbitrary goal of at least 8 cargoes for the trophy and title and HQ
17:02:17  <Borg> ;)
17:02:25  <b_jonas> it also isn't in the way
17:04:19  <Borg> oh shit.. I talked here.. and forgot to add trains into next forest.. bad rating...
17:04:23  <Borg> but.. we will fix it right now
17:08:57  <Borg> now... game start is not that painfully annoying that.. I use 2M loan to start.. slow start really..
17:09:20  <b_jonas> sure, I play on easy mode so it's easy
17:09:24  <Borg> and auto loan is great.. it gets or repays loan automagically... :)
17:09:30  <Borg> b_jonas: I play on medium....
17:09:37  <b_jonas> but that doesn't change the fact that there aren't large cities or oil wells at the start of the game
17:09:40  <b_jonas> so coal is the best
17:09:43  <Borg> but only start is.. hard.. once you get things rolling.. money aint problem..
17:10:03  <Borg> thats why I made BSPI grf... to have harder and more interesting game..
17:10:58  <b_jonas> usually at the start I use a lot of buses to grow towns and increase town authority reputation, but this time I didn't do that because I set the map generation to fewer towns so town authority rep doesn't matter too much, and I knew I wanted an oil network so large cities early would get in the way
17:11:36  <b_jonas> even this way a city at the west is the main obstacle to build the southwest half of the oil network
17:11:49  <Borg> I run GS w/ limits city size... because its sooooo anonying that in late games cities take over map ;)
17:12:04  <Borg> but Im industry dude.. so... ;)
17:12:05  <b_jonas> that's why I chose very few cities
17:12:13  <Borg> same here.. still ... I love looong games
17:12:19  <Borg> my last game ended in 2500 or so.
17:12:22  <b_jonas> I'll probably ignore oil and make a better passenger network the next game
17:12:33  <b_jonas> I never played for that long
17:12:38  <b_jonas> probably only until 2150 or so
17:14:12  <Borg> so.. still a bit after game end? 2051 ?
17:14:37  <b_jonas> yes, though 2051 isn't really the game end if you use vac trains
17:14:56  <b_jonas> and 2150 is only for the longest game, usually I end earlier
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17:17:07  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 commented on pull request #155: Add: Support for parameters in switches
17:17:52  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 updated pull request #155: Add: Support for parameters in switches
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18:07:56  <dP> wow vanilla is laggy on big towns
18:08:03  <dP> 12 fps vs 30
18:10:27  <dP> unless cmake is screwing me up with debug build somehow...
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18:21:26  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl opened pull request #8266: Feature: Make news and errors close hotkeys configurable
18:24:04  <dP> yeah, it was debug build, I though cmake did release by default, was it changed?
18:24:57  <CornsMcGowan[m]> i just noticed, 2019 -> 2020 codebase, rail.gui
18:25:11  <CornsMcGowan[m]> a lot of function definitions used to be virtual void, are now void
18:25:38  <CornsMcGowan[m]> rail_gui.cpp i mean
18:25:45  <dP> CornsMcGowan[m], virtual changed to override
18:25:47  <CornsMcGowan[m]> whats the reason for removing the "virtual" keyword?
18:26:38  <CornsMcGowan[m]> oops that message changed late
18:26:45  <CornsMcGowan[m]> dP: ah i see it now, thank you :)
18:27:35  <b_jonas> what the heck is this terrible noise on the street agian? someone payed for a road reconstruction?
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18:29:25  <LordAro> dP: CornsMcGowan[m]: specifically, the /* virtual */ comment was removed in favour of the override keyword
18:29:44  <LordAro> i don't think any actual virtuals were removed
18:29:51  <LordAro> any significant number, anyway
18:30:41  <dP> LordAro, plenty were
18:31:09  <dP> more like all actually xD
18:31:37  <LordAro> well ok then
18:35:32  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl updated pull request #8266: Feature: Make news and errors close hotkeys configurable
18:40:00  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #8265: Fix: [CMake] Re-enable multi-threaded compilation for MSVC project files
19:00:14  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #8265: Fix: [CMake] Re-enable multi-threaded compilation for MSVC project files
19:09:25  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh approved pull request #8265: Fix: [CMake] Re-enable multi-threaded compilation for MSVC project files
19:11:12  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #8265: Fix: [CMake] Re-enable multi-threaded compilation for MSVC project files
19:25:45  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Hexus-One updated pull request #7607: Feature Request/WIP: Rail Planner track builder
19:28:25  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Hexus-One commented on pull request #7607: Feature Request/WIP: Rail Planner track builder
19:29:56  <debdog> ssddssddssewdsa
19:33:08  <nielsm> nah this channel isn't an fps game
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20:01:20  <FLHerne> We could make it an fps game?
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20:07:19  <Eddi|zuHause> up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A, start
20:11:09  <glx> classic
20:18:26  <dP> iddqdidkfa :p
20:22:43  <milek7>
20:22:53  <b_jonas> oh nice, so I can refit these vac trains to partially passenger, partially mail
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20:33:45  <Eddi|zuHause> milek7 wtf is that? traceroute tetris?
20:34:32  <milek7> ..yes
20:35:29  <milek7> control by subdomain, eg. is rotate, move left 3x, drop
20:35:39  <milek7> sadly requires ipv6
20:37:16  <FLHerne> OpenTTD text adventure?
20:38:19  <FLHerne> "You are on a grassy plain. To the north is a lake. To the east is a coal mine. You have £100,000."
20:38:32  <FLHerne> > build station at coal mine
20:38:56  <supermop_Home> "you build a bus station at the coal mine"
20:39:21  <FLHerne> > demolish bus station
20:39:33  <FLHerne> > build rail station at coal mine
20:40:21  <supermop_Home> "Minhattan on Sea local authority refuses to allow this!"
20:40:29  <FLHerne> haha
20:40:33  <FLHerne> > plant trees
20:40:36  <FLHerne> > everywhere
20:40:49  <FLHerne> > build rail station at coal min
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20:41:28  <supermop_Home> "Can't build rail station - Not enough Cash"
20:41:37  <FLHerne> argh
20:45:13  <supermop_Home> should i build some luxury EMUs for this new line, or just through run commuter trains from another line?
20:55:46  <supermop_Home>
21:10:47  <b_jonas> supermop_Home: yeah, I just spent like 800_000_000 moneys on building a vactrain line
21:10:58  <b_jonas> so I zeroed my cash
21:11:02  <b_jonas> has to wait to finish it
21:11:40  <b_jonas> it probably won't even increase the income from the passenger line enough to worth, but the fast trains look much cooler
21:27:50  <nielsm> the vactrains are 5x-10x faster than any other train, that can be a huge increase in earnings
21:28:08  <nielsm> travel times going from months to days
21:33:50  <b_jonas> nielsm: not yet 5x faster, those haven't been invented yet, they're only 2x faster than Lev4 right now
21:34:43  <b_jonas> but yes, you're right that once I built the vacuum tunnels, it will be cheap to upgrade the trains
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23:40:31  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Hexus-One updated pull request #7607: Feature Request/WIP: Rail Planner track builder

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