Log for #openttd on 18th October 2020:
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00:56:19  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Cin316 commented on issue #8300: Low framerate on macOS
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05:47:11  <rptr_> is there a configure option to enable debugging symbols?
05:47:15  <rptr_> (autotools)
05:50:20  <rptr_> found it
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07:37:10  <andythenorth> yo
07:42:05  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] Aswn opened issue #59: [ta_IN] Translator access request
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07:44:43  <rptr_> hi
07:44:46  <andythenorth> lol someone tried to make my Iron Horse fake train
07:45:07  <andythenorth>
07:45:15  <rptr_> andythenorth, huh? they made a model based on your train?
07:45:25  <andythenorth> IRL no, but convergent evolution
07:45:45  <andythenorth> they did with plastic what I did with pixels
07:46:07  <andythenorth> mine is better TBH :)
07:46:23  <rptr_> your set is very nice
07:46:32  <rptr_> i just wish there was a nice friendly server with nice newgrfs ._.
07:47:15  <rptr_> andythenorth, do you draw every perspective from scratch, or render a 3d model?
07:47:22  <andythenorth> from scratch
07:47:46  <rptr_> oh! there's a HK/MTR set. that brings back memories
07:47:52  <andythenorth> mostly actually from copy-paste
07:48:03  <rptr_> not sure if i actually recognise the trains. just the logo
07:48:13  <rptr_> getting an MTR pass took like 2 months
07:48:31  <rptr_> andythenorth, i guess if i did one i'd take an existing and draw over
08:22:18  <TrueBrain> I do not understand why a [[Category:]] is a link, and when a marker of: add this to this category .. mediawiki is really really weird and inconsistent
08:22:22  <TrueBrain> morning all :)
08:23:26  <andythenorth> hi TB
08:23:47  <rptr_> hi
08:24:06  <andythenorth> well we know _why_ but we don't know _why_
08:24:15  <andythenorth> stuff is made by people
08:28:19  <rptr_> LordAro, re. call stack being printed after catching an exception. i backported 1 LOC from latest squirrel and changed 1 setting in Squirrel.cpp. would that be worth a pull request? i really think if exceptions work properly that would be great
08:30:45  <rptr_> perhaps an AIError.PrintCallStack() would be useful
08:32:25  * rptr_ can run ChooChoo without stack traces \o/
08:42:52  <LordAro> rptr_: i think that would be worth a PR
08:43:25  <LordAro> (certainly the former, and *maybe* the latter)
08:44:05  <rptr_> i am so happy. now i can use exceptions. :p
08:48:58  <andythenorth> so when is daylength?
08:49:04  * andythenorth playing game
08:49:16  <rptr_> andythenorth, adjustable daylength?
08:49:22  <andythenorth> anything
08:49:43  <rptr_> i don't know what you mean
08:50:36  <andythenorth> new generations of vehicles arrive about too quickly
08:50:46  <andythenorth> ideally they would be about 1.5x slower in my games
08:51:24  <andythenorth> I could just change the newgrfs, but then dates look a bit weird
08:53:52  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rptr opened pull request #8331: Fix: don't notify caught exceptions
08:54:06  <rptr_> can't you modify when vehicles arrive? i thought that already existed
08:55:36  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rptr closed pull request #8331: Fix: don't notify caught exceptions
08:55:56  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rptr reopened pull request #8331: Fix: [NoAI] don't notify caught exceptions
09:00:34  <andythenorth> I could just change the dates
09:00:38  <andythenorth> intro dates
09:01:10  <andythenorth> current solution is just to use date cheat and set the year back occasionally
09:01:27  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rptr updated pull request #8331: Fix: [NoAI] don't notify caught exceptions
09:05:21  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8331: Fix: [NoAI] don't notify caught exceptions
09:13:59  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rptr commented on pull request #8331: Fix: [NoAI] don't notify caught exceptions
09:14:52  <andythenorth> who invented a 'freeze time' mode?
09:14:53  <andythenorth> was it TB?
09:17:22  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds unlikely
09:18:22  <Eddi|zuHause> i would think either Wolf01 or alberth
09:18:25  <TrueBrain> wtf is "freeze time"?
09:19:16  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: one where the game progresses but the date doesn't advance
09:19:16  <andythenorth> some kind of 'stop the date'
09:19:35  <TrueBrain> what is the obsession with people of stopping time? :P
09:19:36  <Eddi|zuHause> transport fever 2 has that
09:20:15  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: mostly people who want to play with steam trains instead of maglev
09:20:28  <TrueBrain> so buy a slower CPU :P
09:20:32  <TrueBrain> (I am trolling, btw)
09:20:39  <andythenorth> I tried searching logs but eh
09:20:45  <andythenorth> Boredom Ensued
09:20:55  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: my CPU is probably slower than yours :p
09:21:43  <TrueBrain> ugh @ html library of Python
09:21:52  <TrueBrain> it seems to be fixing "&SF" into "&SF;"
09:21:57  <TrueBrain> but it should be "&amp;SF"
09:22:00  <TrueBrain> facepalm
09:22:30  <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like a job for a regex :p
09:22:56  <TrueBrain> it is not wrong perse to do this .. there are a few codes that don't need the ;
09:23:01  <TrueBrain> HTML is annoying like that
09:23:42  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i got a bit confused about that when i hand-coded html like 20 years ago
09:31:25  <TrueBrain> I hate libraries that do all kind of things "extra" for you
09:31:30  <TrueBrain> the Python "html" lib is really one of them :P
09:36:30  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rptr commented on pull request #8331: Fix: [NoAI] don't notify caught exceptions
09:36:42  <Eddi|zuHause> you can hopefully configure some of those "extra" things
09:36:50  <TrueBrain> nope
09:37:14  <TrueBrain> it uses regex to figure out the HTML, and it doesn't give enough information to me to reconstruct the original input
09:37:29  <TrueBrain> so I get "sf", with input "&sf;" and "&sf"
09:37:30  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rptr commented on pull request #8331: Fix: [NoAI] don't notify caught exceptions
09:37:57  <rptr_> wait, is it an actual problem for you that steam trains are phased out?
09:38:19  <rptr_> i prefer them too, but i'm sure i've played on always-steam servers
09:38:20  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8331: Fix: [NoAI] don't notify caught exceptions
09:39:16  <Eddi|zuHause> rptr_: there is a setting to not phase them out. but then you still have the new trains that are obviously superior
09:39:32  <TrueBrain> and not playing with them is SO DIFFICULT or something :P
09:40:15  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rptr commented on pull request #8331: Fix: [NoAI] don't notify caught exceptions
09:40:26  <Eddi|zuHause> it breaks the immersion :p
09:41:19  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rptr commented on pull request #8331: Fix: [NoAI] don't notify caught exceptions
09:41:29  <rptr_> sorry for spamming git :P
09:41:43  <rptr_> can't you remove trains with newgrf or something?
09:42:51  <andythenorth> I can control all the trains I want
09:43:21  <Eddi|zuHause> sure, you can make a newgrf that fits one single person's needs
09:43:26  <andythenorth> the specific issue is that upgrades come in waves, it's kind of the only way to do it
09:43:37  <Eddi|zuHause> but the next person would need a slightly different newgrf
09:44:17  <rptr_> so, you want new steam trains to come out, but history should end at a certain point? :p
09:44:26  <Eddi|zuHause> and that doesn't scale well when the number of people goes up
09:45:44  <andythenorth> I find that by the time I've replaced all the trains of one generation
09:45:47  <andythenorth> and tuned the network
09:45:52  <andythenorth> it's time for the next generation
09:46:03  <andythenorth> and unlike building, you can't replace trains in pause mode
09:46:55  <andythenorth> I could just adjust the intro dates, but I'd have to do it for all the vehicle newgrfs I use
09:47:08  <andythenorth> also realism reasons :P
09:47:08  <rptr_> yeah that is annoying. and i never upgrade from electric to mono or mono to maglev. yurk
09:47:17  <rptr_> probably more realistic to not upgrade anyway
09:47:32  <andythenorth> I have to use ffwd a lot when replacing trains
09:47:38  <andythenorth> to get them into depot
09:47:44  <andythenorth> so the game goes by quite fast
09:47:51  <rptr_> what was that game someone mentioned above, some other transport game...
09:48:05  <TrueBrain> that moment you find a random "LEFT-TO-RIGHT MARK" in the input .. wutttttt
09:48:27  <Eddi|zuHause> but that brings us back to the original problem of all daylength patches: you need to dive into the code and decouple simulation time progression from date progression
09:48:44  <rptr_> can you change dates in gamescript?
09:48:52  <Eddi|zuHause> no
09:49:52  <Eddi|zuHause> rptr_: transport fever 2
09:52:19  <rptr_> is Cities: Skyline/-s any good?
10:01:10  <Eddi|zuHause> sure
10:01:24  <Eddi|zuHause> if you have lots of RAM...
10:06:07  <Wolf01> <Eddi|zuHause> i would think either Wolf01 or alberth <- one of us probably, my long term memory doesn't work well anymore, I can't load memories and I'm paging constantly, working slowly as my brain is still electrochemical... I might need a soft reset
10:09:40  <Eddi|zuHause> they say covid longterm effects are some kind of brain-fogginess :)
10:10:42  <Wolf01> Nah, this is just stress
10:17:06  <rptr_> the first time i was actually concerned about getting sick w/ covid was after hearing about the brain fog. otherwise "i can probably take it"
10:17:20  <rptr_> i'm still convinced i got some brain damage from that flu at age 14...
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10:52:03  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rptr updated pull request #8331: Fix: [NoAI] don't notify caught exceptions
10:52:36  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] glx22 commented on issue #59: [ta_IN] Translator access request
10:52:43  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rptr commented on pull request #8331: Fix: [NoAI] don't notify caught exceptions
10:57:53  <FLHerne> andythenorth: I can't see anyone paying £30 for that somehow
11:02:15  <andythenorth> optimism
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11:11:54  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8331: Fix: [NoAI] don't notify caught exceptions
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11:24:32  <Wolf01> <Eddi|zuHause> i would think either Wolf01 or alberth <- something about it on 4th april, but also I think we referred to the transport fever 2 date freeze feature
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11:52:12  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rptr updated pull request #8331: Fix: [NoAI] don't notify caught exceptions
11:56:56  * andythenorth considers 'Wales & West Country' FIRS economy
11:57:23  <LordAro> West Country was always my favourite TTD map
11:57:30  <andythenorth> like FIRS Temperate Basic, only not laughably basic
11:57:59  <andythenorth> this is silly
12:00:18  <rptr_> firs is so nice :)
12:06:44  <andythenorth> hmm
12:06:44  <andythenorth> I think I extended the 'ports are the hubs' beyond reason
12:06:44  <andythenorth> it's quite hard to build stations to pickup 6 different cargos and deliver 2
12:06:44  <andythenorth> or pick up 6 and deliver 4
12:07:07  <longtomjr_> Being able to use boats makes it easier in a lot of cases though
12:07:38  <longtomjr_> but with default station spread it probably ends up a bit tricky
12:08:47  <rptr_> firs only has 4 economies now?
12:08:54  <rptr_> there used to be some other ones i think
12:09:00  <andythenorth> I removed extreme
12:09:04  <andythenorth> I'm going to add more
12:09:42  <rptr_> more industries = better :D
12:12:00  <rptr_> you could build spaceship parts, Civ 2 style
12:15:02  <Eddi|zuHause> the civ2 spaceship looked weird. civ1 spaceship was nice
12:16:51  <rptr_> didn't know it had one. i wish civ 2 had the resource feature of civ 3, then it'd be perfect
12:18:56  <Wolf01> Never completed one in civ2
12:19:31  <rptr_> i still want to make some mars map. fund farms and dig for water to terraform and win(?). don't know what capabilities game script has
12:19:46  <rptr_> in ottd that is
12:22:57  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Yes please, that's my ideal industry
12:23:18  <FLHerne> economy
12:23:57  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Have you considered customs posts? :p
12:24:05  <FLHerne> Placed only on land map edges
12:24:32  <andythenorth> Railroad Tycoon had Warehouses
12:24:38  <andythenorth> ports-without-sea
12:24:55  <LordAro> TrueBrain: any ideas?
12:25:02  <andythenorth> border posts might solve some problems
12:25:29  <andythenorth> e.g. WAWC would need quicklime, but I'd rather import it
12:26:02  <rptr_> sheep and coal
12:28:12  <andythenorth> sheep and coal
12:28:13  <andythenorth> and cider
12:30:33  <andythenorth> FLHerne would including Customs Posts on the borders of Wales / Cornwall be political?
12:30:39  <andythenorth> Cymru / Kernow?
12:32:20  <FLHerne> Emmets
12:32:40  <FLHerne> Go to beaches and hotels, and have an extra-slow loading time because of all the surfboards
12:33:08  <longtomjr_> It looks like the pr that changed the display speed in nml introduced a breaking change
12:33:15  <FLHerne> Oh, and castles
12:33:17  <longtomjr_> for 0.5.3
12:33:32  <longtomjr_> Error:    (TypeError) "new_ottd_display_speed() takes 3 positional arguments but 4 were given".
12:33:32  <FLHerne> I've never seen castles as an OTTD industry, but it would be pretty
12:33:42  <longtomjr_> (sorry not sure if this is a good time)
12:33:52  <FLHerne> longtomjr_: Sorry, that's probably my fault
12:34:06  <FLHerne> longtomjr_: Is the relevant NML public?
12:34:15  <longtomjr_> yep, on pip3
12:34:21  <longtomjr_> I saw you added another param there
12:34:46  <longtomjr_> added in 'mul'
12:35:04  <longtomjr_> assume the easy workaround is just  to make mul 1
12:36:40  <FLHerne> longtomjr_: Oh, you're calling it from Python
12:36:49  <longtomjr_> yep
12:36:58  <FLHerne> I don't *think* we promise to maintain a stable Python API
12:37:07  <longtomjr_> ah no worries then
12:37:14  <FLHerne> Especially if you're calling odd internals :p
12:37:45  <longtomjr_> working on recompiling the finnish trainset
12:37:51  <longtomjr_> so not my fault :P
12:38:04  <andythenorth> FLHerne I don't think we promise much at all :)
12:38:07  <longtomjr_> anyways, let me try and figure out what is going on.
12:38:13  <longtomjr_> thanks for the help and sorry for bothering
12:38:19  <FLHerne> longtomjr_: And yes, making 'mul' 1 will give you the same behaviour
12:38:24  <andythenorth> mostly we just count ourselves lucky if we keep up with openttd and have some docs :P
12:38:24  <longtomjr_> ty
12:38:32  <FLHerne> Are you using custom speed units or something?
12:38:39  <FLHerne> Sorry, afk for a bit, RL intrudes
12:38:48  <FLHerne> But I'll read anything you say in a bit :p
12:39:18  <TrueBrain> LordAro: honestly no clue. But do we still want to support i386?
12:39:30  <longtomjr_> Wait, this might still be a bug, the error comes from /lib/python3.8/site-packages/nml/actions/"
12:39:49  <LordAro> TrueBrain: looks like it might be some missing executable on the container, judging by
12:39:58  <LordAro> not sure what yet though
12:40:08  <LordAro> TrueBrain: no particular reason why not, tbh
12:40:32  <LordAro> i imagine i'd have the same trouble with the 16.04 amd64 container anyway
12:41:12  <longtomjr_> FLHerne,
12:41:22  <longtomjr_> that line is the one throwing the error
12:41:44  <TrueBrain> Fair enough. I can help looking what goes wrong later today.. I have seen it before, just cannot remember what solved it ..
12:42:16  <LordAro> no rush :p
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12:45:23  <longtomjr_> FLHerne, this is the script on my end causing the issue:
12:46:00  <longtomjr_> or rather that same script, in the finnish trainset repo
12:48:26  <longtomjr_> # Monkey patch for nml to correct display speed rounding errors,
12:48:27  <longtomjr_> # until some nml dev fixes it in upstream
12:48:38  <longtomjr_> I am guessing this is not needed anymore
12:49:23  <rptr_> any industry which generates passengers from passengers? would make sense for a tourist attraction like a castle
12:49:27  <longtomjr_> so yep, error on my end
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13:09:37  <FLHerne> rptr_: FIRS has Hotels which are basically the same thing
13:09:42  <FLHerne> But castles would be more scenic
13:11:17  <andythenorth> ECS has one
13:11:30  <FLHerne> longtomjr_: Yes, if you monkeypatch internal functions, you get to keep both pieces ;-)
13:11:35  <andythenorth>
13:11:37  <frosch123> ecs castles are a puzzle game
13:11:52  <FLHerne> longtomjr_: Also, the change that breaks your patch also removes the reason for it
13:12:10  <longtomjr_> yep, figured that ouyt
13:12:16  <longtomjr_> *out, thanks
13:12:19  <andythenorth> industry terraforming :P
13:12:33  <andythenorth> specify height relative to N tile :P
13:12:35  <longtomjr_> and sorry for the false positive
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13:24:44  <andythenorth> Wales and West Country economy would be better with regions
13:24:58  <andythenorth> maybe I could use map xy to force industry location
13:25:07  <andythenorth> hmm, but what if some of map is just sea?
13:25:09  <andythenorth> always problems :P
13:25:33  <rptr_> i do find that random locations of industries don't make much sense
13:25:54  <rptr_> makes sense to have farms concentrated mostly in one place, unless it's one big farmland
13:26:02  <rptr_> (for example)
13:26:22  <rptr_> well i think the last time i played firs there were some clusters of farms. not sure if intentional
13:26:32  <glx> you can craft a scenario manually :)
13:26:44  <rptr_> ._.
13:26:46  <rptr_> i don't like that!
13:27:33  <glx> usually only one type of industry is allowed per town
13:30:02  <glx> and newgrf industries can use complex checking of surroundings before being built, but that can prevent them totally if the checks are very specific (like in ECS)
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13:35:10  <rptr_> is ECS the one with the weird creatures on the industries?
13:50:00  <TrueBrain> LordAro: very weird issue, as executing the commands locally works fine
13:50:16  <TrueBrain> I remember similar issues when using alpine, and not everything being installed
13:50:21  <TrueBrain> but .. that is not this :D
13:51:51  <TrueBrain> LordAro: maybe try 18.04, see if there is any difference?
13:52:24  <TrueBrain> (in general, 16.04 .. maybe we should drop support for that :D 2 new versions are out, and we said to support n-1 :D)
14:17:01  <LordAro> TrueBrain: it's still supported generally, no real reason why we shouldn't support it either
14:17:21  <TrueBrain> LordAro: not that long ago we said we were only going to do n-1, as otherwise it was not doable really
14:17:28  <TrueBrain> we said that for MacOS, but also for Debian
14:17:39  <TrueBrain> not sure why we want to change that again .. but okay, if you want to hurt yourself, I am not stopping you :D
14:17:45  <TrueBrain> but I would start by trying if 18.04 works
14:17:48  <TrueBrain> and work from there
14:18:09  <TrueBrain> (as I think 20.04 has no i386 anymore?)
14:18:48  <TrueBrain> "Ubuntu Linux 16.04 LTS reaches the end of its five-year LTS window on April 30th 2021" <- or just drag this on for a few more months, and you don't have to feel bad anymore
14:20:38  <glx> I think 20.04 still has i386
14:20:45  <glx> at least in packages
14:20:59  <TrueBrain> I can never remember .. they were dropping i386 on one of these main streams :P
14:21:30  <TrueBrain> (about freaking time tbh ... i386 is like ppc :D)
14:21:53  <TrueBrain> ah, they wanted to drop, but too many people were: MAMMIE, THIS IS NOT FAIR
14:22:00  <TrueBrain> so they added i386 for 20.04
14:22:38  <TrueBrain> but in that case LordAro , start with 20.04, and work from there :)
14:22:52  <glx> they also have ppc64el and s390x
14:22:54  <TrueBrain> it is a lot easier if you know it is because you trying to support a 4 year old something ;)
14:23:04  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] Aswn opened issue #29: Unable to use STRING1 or anyother non standard modifiers in translations
14:23:20  <TrueBrain> well, I agree with their statement that supporting 0.001% is a bad idea, as it is very much untested at that point
14:24:21  <TrueBrain> LordAro: if it is 16.04, and if your code just works on 20.04, we have a direction to search for what goes wrong :)
14:24:23  <LordAro> glx: no, full i386 was dropped in 19.10
14:24:23  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] glx22 commented on issue #29: Unable to use STRING1 or anyother non standard modifiers in translations
14:24:35  <TrueBrain> LordAro:
14:24:36  <TrueBrain> was reverted ;)
14:24:46  <LordAro> yes, *packages*
14:24:57  <TrueBrain> define "full" ;)
14:25:05  <LordAro> there's no i386 release
14:25:08  <TrueBrain> they were "fully" going to drop i386 :P
14:25:31  <TrueBrain> anyway, please also remember that GitHub Actions Checkout needs a relative new git version (2.18 I believe)
14:25:38  <LordAro> mm
14:25:41  <glx> yeah I guess the installer is 64bit only, but when upgrading existing install you can still use i386
14:25:42  <TrueBrain> otherwise revision detection might fail (as it will download an archive)
14:25:55  <TrueBrain> so in general, I say what I said last time we talked about this: do the checkout on the host, not in a container ;)
14:26:45  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain commented on issue #29: Unable to use STRING1 or anyother non standard modifiers in translations
14:27:26  <LordAro> mm, maybe
14:27:45  <LordAro> a lot of repeated "runs-on" though :p
14:32:50  <TrueBrain> but it avoids having to deal with stuff that is not important :)
14:32:57  <TrueBrain> you only want to use the container to compile
14:33:10  <TrueBrain> but again, if you want to hurt yourself, I am not stopping you :D
14:33:22  <TrueBrain> I would advise: get it to work first, optimize it later ;)
14:33:52  <TrueBrain> and talking about hurting yourself. ... comparing HTML with mediawiki is PAINFUL
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14:37:42  <rptr_> what other way do parts of openttd check/print based on debug levels apart from _debug_*_level and DEBUG(...)?
14:38:10  <rptr_> can't seem to find a place where _debug_script_level==5 causes output to the in-game console and stdout
14:40:14  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rptr updated pull request #8331: Fix: [NoAI] don't notify caught exceptions
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14:58:58  <TrueBrain> why do I keep finding bugs in Wiki templates ... most of this stuff could never really work tbfh :P
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15:36:38  <TrueBrain> owh boy ... <small><<Back to the <a href=""></a></small> ...
15:36:45  <TrueBrain> how to learn anything that the << should be escaped
15:36:46  <TrueBrain> lol
15:37:09  <TrueBrain> it now sees "back" as a tag, and "to the <a href="">" as the attributes
15:37:09  <TrueBrain> lol
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16:56:20  <Eddi|zuHause> obviously you need AI, and blockchain... :p
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17:10:27  <andythenorth> more cloud needed
17:11:31  <frosch123> it's dark, you can't even see the clouds
17:14:14  <TrueBrain> I am finding so many bugs in mediawiki ... I hope they are all fixes in newer versions ..
17:14:27  <TrueBrain> my new favorite: <dl><dt><dl><dd></dt></dl></dd></dl>
17:14:30  <TrueBrain> find the error :P
17:14:53  <glx> easy
17:15:01  <glx> the order doesn't match
17:15:11  <TrueBrain> cannot believe the crap a browser can still render :P
17:15:44  <andythenorth> browsers put up with all sorts of shit
17:16:07  <andythenorth> they are the multi-wheel run-flat-tyre truck of the industry
17:16:14  <andythenorth> set a few land mines off under them, they keep going
17:16:25  <andythenorth> I mean...they even run javascript
17:17:06  <glx> well most can probably still handle IE6 weirdness
17:17:28  <TrueBrain> right ... more fixes ... more HTML that renders exactly the same ...i getting there .. now lets check all pages starting with an 'a' :D
17:18:55  <frosch123> don't fool us. we know that wiki pages start capitalized
17:19:02  <TrueBrain> I really wonder what is easier .. to just fix every page to be sane, or to make the render accept the insanity :P
17:19:17  <TrueBrain> by now, I just lowercased every URL .. got so sick of those differences :P
17:19:45  <TrueBrain> hmm .. somehow I managed to render </td></li></ul></tr> .. that can never be correct :D
17:20:40  <TrueBrain> so sometimes mediawiki changes "a: b" into "a:b", and sometimes it does not .. I am so happy if I can let this all go, and just go with frosch123's dataset
17:20:50  <TrueBrain> (currently comparing against live-wiki, as .. well, .. ugh
17:23:10  <TrueBrain> wtf ... check .. search for "feed service" .. now check the source ..
17:23:17  <TrueBrain> how .... why ...... huh?
17:23:59  <TrueBrain> this is just ... wuth?
17:24:25  <frosch123> you mean the [[link]]trails?
17:24:34  <frosch123> they are not supported by wikitextparser, not me
17:24:38  <frosch123> they are just stupid
17:25:44  <TrueBrain> yes, that with "[[negative income with feeder service]]s", the "s" is inside the <a></a>
17:25:47  <TrueBrain> it clearly is NOT
17:25:51  <TrueBrain> it can go fuck itself
17:26:01  <TrueBrain> (and only for the text it is inside, not for the URL)
17:26:10  <frosch123> yes, that's the stupid mediawiki feature, that noone supports
17:26:26  <frosch123> i only learned about it when figuring out gollum stuff
17:26:29  <TrueBrain> but why .. just why ...
17:26:34  <TrueBrain> "owh, you were stupid, let me fix it for you"
17:27:15  <frosch123> TrueBrain: it's a shortcut: [[foobar]]s == [[foobar | foobars]]
17:27:27  <TrueBrain> ... but why?
17:27:35  <TrueBrain> I don't understand these things .. it only makes for very unreadable source :(
17:27:35  <frosch123> when the page title is singular, but the grammar requires  something else
17:27:44  <frosch123> it works for languages which append stuff
17:27:49  <frosch123> but fails for others
17:27:52  <TrueBrain> it works for English, basically
17:27:53  <TrueBrain> :P
17:28:36  <frosch123> ask that the guys who added std::chrono:january/05/2005 as valid syntax to c++
17:29:00  <TrueBrain> ... wuth?
17:29:12  <TrueBrain> let me see if I can recover some sanity here, I think it just ran out of the door
17:29:58  <TrueBrain> meh, still no clue how to fix <<Back from working .. how do I know that it is not a tag .. hmmmm
17:30:08  <TrueBrain> guess, check if there is another <  in the tag
17:30:11  <TrueBrain> hmm, that would work
17:35:09  <frosch123> how is "<< back" different from "a < b" ?
17:35:21  <TrueBrain> it is <<Back, not << Back
17:35:22  <TrueBrain> space :)
17:35:31  <TrueBrain> it will have issues with a<b too
17:35:40  <TrueBrain> but solved now :)
17:39:01  <TrueBrain> funny, wikitextparser considers ) in URLs as valid
17:39:15  <TrueBrain> so becomes an URL, instead of without the )
17:39:25  <TrueBrain> meh .. #care
17:40:27  <TrueBrain> -59%</b>
17:40:28  <TrueBrain> +41.682419659735345%</b>
17:40:32  <TrueBrain> owh boy, this will be interesting :D
17:40:50  <LordAro> that happens in so many places i automatically do ( )
17:41:18  <LordAro> TrueBrain: ohho
17:41:47  <TrueBrain> -breakdowns</td>
17:41:47  <TrueBrain> +breakdowns0</td>
17:41:49  <TrueBrain> that is also an odd one
17:41:51  <TrueBrain> lets dive in :)
17:43:05  <TrueBrain> the source .. really says "0"
17:43:10  <TrueBrain> but .. I guess .. this is ... PHP ...
17:43:19  <TrueBrain> empty("0") == true after all, in that language
17:43:53  <frosch123> thanks, i was happy without knowing that
17:44:10  <TrueBrain>
17:44:15  <TrueBrain> just reading it makes me laugh EVERY single time
17:44:27  <TrueBrain> that "" is empty, and that 0 is empty, okay .. ish
17:44:29  <TrueBrain> but "0"
17:44:32  <TrueBrain> that is just hilarious :)
17:44:46  <LordAro> non empty string
17:44:53  <LordAro> it's the same in python :p
17:45:09  <TrueBrain> if "0" == True: THIS NEVER RUNS
17:45:27  <LordAro> (well, "false", rather than "empty")
17:45:35  <LordAro> if "0": does though
17:45:51  <TrueBrain> .... it can go fuck itself then
17:46:11  <TrueBrain> I do not know if I want to fix this or not ...
17:46:18  <TrueBrain> the parameter is "0"
17:46:24  <TrueBrain> it is used in the template as {{2}}
17:46:30  <TrueBrain> and nothing is printed
17:47:01  <frosch123> TrueBrain: some of those wiki parser libs wrote "this does not try to be bug-to-bug compatible with mediawiki"
17:47:08  <frosch123> that's sound like a good approach
17:47:17  <LordAro> sounds like something is using python boolean logic instead of emulating php's
17:47:27  <TrueBrain> yeah, well, let me show you something, just to make you giggle ..
17:47:32  <TrueBrain> LordAro: there is no boolean logic involved, that is the point
17:47:55  <LordAro> ok, "logic to determine whether something is empty"
17:48:13  <TrueBrain> it is printing a parameter ..
17:48:17  <TrueBrain> there should be no logic involved
17:48:20  <TrueBrain> you say: give me a 0
17:48:22  <TrueBrain> you should get a zero :P
17:48:29  <TrueBrain> no clue why mediawiki makes that more complicated
17:48:36  <TrueBrain> anyway .. frosch123 : <- I am not being bug-compatible :P
17:48:42  <LordAro> depends what the template is doing
17:48:43  <TrueBrain> so many seds to make comparing possible :D
17:48:49  <TrueBrain> LordAro: printing the variable! That is all!
17:48:55  <TrueBrain> it really just reads: {{2}}
17:48:57  <TrueBrain> no logic, nothing
17:49:01  <TrueBrain> just .. printing the damn variable :P
17:49:02  <LordAro> that is.odd
17:49:09  <TrueBrain> ..... glad you caught on :)
17:49:27  <glx> php likes to complicate simple stuff anyway
17:50:16  <LordAro> but ultimately, i'd say a parser does need to replicate php's behaviour
17:50:46  <TrueBrain> I completely and fully disagree :)
17:50:51  <TrueBrain> it needs to output good HTML
17:50:53  <LordAro> actual bugs, sure, leave those. but language 'design decisions' should be followed
17:51:07  <TrueBrain> good luck finding any "design decision" with mediawiki :P
17:51:11  <TrueBrain> it is all ... "what is implemented"
17:51:16  <LordAro> well, yes
17:51:20  <TrueBrain> even their versions from one version to the other can render different things
17:51:28  <LordAro> that's what the quotes were signifying
17:51:39  <TrueBrain> so it is easy to say from a distance these kind of things, but reality is a whole lot more suckier :)
17:51:55  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
17:51:55  <DorpsGek_III>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
17:52:13  <TrueBrain> there are many things in our wiki that are easier to fix and simply no longer allow, than to implement the PHP behaviour
17:52:28  <TrueBrain> like this "0" .. fixing it in the template is a lot more effective :)
17:52:56  <TrueBrain> the other lovely thing is: when to escape in URLs .. which is completely random, by the looks
17:52:57  <LordAro> i don't doubt
17:53:14  <LordAro> but something like empty("0") == true should be followed
17:53:22  <TrueBrain> "should" ..
17:53:27  <TrueBrain> please, sod off :P
17:54:03  <LordAro> you're the one that wants to accurately reproduce the output!
17:54:07  <TrueBrain> something something, high horse, something something .. andythenorth , I have a new NewGRF idea for you :D
17:54:25  <TrueBrain> no, LordAro , I do not; I want to validate that my renderer renders our wiki correctly after conversion
17:54:27  <LordAro> that's not a mediawiki paraer weirdness, that's a fundamental part of php
17:54:32  <TrueBrain> there are several ways to reach that goal
17:54:32  <LordAro> parser*
17:54:49  <TrueBrain> you are either being a total dick, or totally misunderstood what I was running into
17:54:56  <TrueBrain> so let me run it again by you, and you can pick :D
17:55:04  <TrueBrain> {{Template|0}} is called
17:55:08  <TrueBrain> Template reads: {{1}}
17:55:12  <TrueBrain> Mediawiki outputs ""
17:55:17  <TrueBrain> my render outputs "0"
17:55:37  <TrueBrain> this is, most likely, due to the fact they use PHP and empty("0") == "" or something silly (I do not know, I have not checked their code)
17:55:48  <TrueBrain> only question is: is "" correct or "0" correct
17:55:57  <LordAro> right
17:56:00  * frosch123 votes for "0"
17:56:04  <LordAro> i thought it was the other way around
17:56:23  <LordAro> -/+ do not make it clear :p
17:56:49  <TrueBrain> - is mediawiki, + is my render, of course :) How else do you compare? Old -> new, right? :D
17:57:00  <TrueBrain> anyway, I assumed you weren't being a total dick, no worries :)
17:57:58  <TrueBrain> it is just this wikitext parser called "mediawiki" ... and our version being ANCIENT ... it is starting to get the better of me :P
17:58:38  <TrueBrain> -<a href="/%d0%9d%d0%b0%d1%81%d1%82%d1%80%d0%be%d0%b9%d0%ba%d0%b8_%d0%98%d0%98/ru" title="настройки ии/ru">
17:58:38  <TrueBrain> +<a href="/%d0%9d%d0%b0%d1%81%d1%82%d1%80%d0%be%d0%b9%d0%ba%d0%b8_%d0%b8%d0%b8/ru" title="настройки ии/ru">
17:58:40  <frosch123> oh, i would bet on current mediawiki still behaving that stupid
17:58:41  <TrueBrain> these diffs crack me up too :)
17:59:16  <TrueBrain> (uppercase vs lowercase)
18:01:35  <TrueBrain> I do understand why wikitext never became a standard, and that markdown exists, btw
18:01:52  <LordAro> TrueBrain: i can't see any difference there at all
18:02:07  <TrueBrain> LordAro: %d0%98 -> %d0%b8, after the _
18:02:12  <TrueBrain> 9 vs b
18:02:19  <TrueBrain> took me a texteditor highlight to find that
18:02:39  <LordAro> ah, that's the last character on the line of my current terminal
18:02:48  <LordAro> which is why i missed it
18:03:34  <TrueBrain> also something I cannot seem to get right, when the "alt" text of an image is the filename and when not
18:03:40  <TrueBrain> I gave up .. who cares anyway ..
18:04:15  <TrueBrain> also "fun", mediawiki renders <pre> blocks in <code> blocks :)
18:05:13  <TrueBrain> -<span style="width:0%; height:2px; background:#7fff00; float:left">
18:05:13  <TrueBrain> +<span style="width:0.0%; height:2px; background:#7fff00; float:left">
18:05:15  <TrueBrain> ah ... / vs //
18:05:44  <LordAro> frosch123: fyi, with mediawiki 1.31, i get the '0'
18:05:56  <frosch123> aw :)
18:06:05  <LordAro> hence, a bug that shouldn't be replicated :p
18:06:08  <LordAro> i wasn't wrong!
18:06:16  <TrueBrain> lolz :P
18:06:27  <TrueBrain> I have to say this, but know I am smiling: dickhead
18:06:50  <LordAro> love you too, TrueBrain
18:06:54  <TrueBrain> :D
18:06:57  <TrueBrain> that was funny :)
18:07:06  <TrueBrain> but good to know they also notice it was a garbage thing to do :P
18:07:21  <LordAro> since i'm now at a computer again, i will do a bit more on the release workflow
18:07:26  <TrueBrain> I like I keep finding bugs this way :) Took for-ever to write the compare script, but it is nice it shows me what I am doing wrong
18:07:31  <TrueBrain> LordAro: \o/
18:08:25  <TrueBrain> owh, I really have to do something with the <nowiki> stuff ...
18:08:34  <TrueBrain> I just hope wikitextparse does something with it :P
18:08:37  <TrueBrain> I honestly do not know :)
18:09:21  <TrueBrain> plenty of tests mentioning it
18:09:23  <TrueBrain> so I tihnk it does
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18:12:41  <TrueBrain> -<table border="1" class="wikitable sortable">
18:12:41  <TrueBrain> +<table border="1" padding="4" class="wikitable sortable">
18:12:50  <TrueBrain> how ... just .. why ..
18:12:57  <LordAro> TrueBrain: found this
18:13:54  <TrueBrain> well, you are not alone, that is good
18:14:08  <TrueBrain> still curious if it does work with newer Ubuntus
18:14:13  <TrueBrain> as the amd64 did work in your build
18:14:29  <LordAro> apparently not - i386/ubuntu:18.04 had some problem
18:14:33  <TrueBrain> I wonder if it is an issue where a syscall cannot be executed
18:14:43  <TrueBrain> or something in those lines
18:15:00  <TrueBrain> and 20.04?
18:15:05  <TrueBrain> worth a shot possibly?
18:15:25  <LordAro> i386/ubuntu:20.04 doesn't exist
18:15:27  <TrueBrain> so why is mediawiki ignoring "padding", I wonder ..
18:15:33  <LordAro> which is why i never added it to CompileFarm :p
18:15:38  <TrueBrain> it doesn't? Awh ... I assumed they would have made it :P
18:15:53  <TrueBrain> dist-upgrade an 18.04 :P
18:15:55  <TrueBrain> no, just kidding
18:16:02  <TrueBrain> what is a bit odd that you can execute the "apt update" etc
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18:16:38  <LordAro> well we had to - cached apt packages got too out of date for the mirrors
18:16:40  <TrueBrain> but really .. a checkout on the host is most likely your solution, as I think the cmake will also just work
18:17:03  <TrueBrain> yes, you have to; what I mention, is that it is odd that you can execute apt update, but the actions/checkout doesn't work
18:17:10  <TrueBrain> so the docker is working, and responding okay
18:17:24  <TrueBrain> it is somehow the way actions/checkout interacts with it, that is the issue, it seems
18:17:42  <LordAro> it's really difficult to do mixed host/container commands though, as far as i can tell?
18:18:01  <LordAro> there's some comments in linked issues that suggest that it's due to node being missing in the container
18:18:17  <TrueBrain> install it and find out :P
18:18:27  <LordAro> that's my next step :)
18:18:36  <LordAro> step after that is to work out why FindVersion.cmake is not working
18:19:10  <TrueBrain> because git is too old
18:19:15  <TrueBrain> we have been over that, haven't we? :D
18:19:43  <LordAro> it's returning a result that suggests that git doesn't exist at all (.git dir doesn't)
18:19:52  <TrueBrain> yes ...
18:19:59  <TrueBrain> because you used an old git, and it fetched an archive
18:20:05  <TrueBrain> check the run results, the checkout step
18:20:08  <TrueBrain> it mentions it in there
18:20:08  <LordAro> oooh
18:20:14  <LordAro> yes, that makes sense
18:20:24  <TrueBrain> not the first time we have this conversation about that :P :D
18:20:40  <TrueBrain> this is why I suggest the checkout on host :) Can't you set per step if it needs to run in the container or something?
18:20:41  <LordAro> it's a very confusing fallback behaviour!
18:20:46  <TrueBrain> it is
18:20:52  <TrueBrain> and I would rather have it just fails
18:21:02  <LordAro> i don't think so, as far as i can tell from the docs
18:21:21  <TrueBrain> If you do not set a container, all steps will run directly on the host specified by runs-on unless a step refers to an action configured to run in a container.
18:21:26  <TrueBrain> so it is possible, but how .. hmm
18:21:29  <TrueBrain> and yes, docs are not clear :P
18:22:47  <TrueBrain> owh, an action can be a Dockerfile
18:22:50  <TrueBrain> right, forgot about that
18:22:51  <LordAro> and then these this one
18:22:59  <LordAro> s/these/there's/
18:23:18  <TrueBrain> install ca-certifications  :)
18:23:27  <LordAro> good call
18:23:34  <LordAro> curious that it's only required for that one though
18:23:48  <TrueBrain> git clone https: ..
18:23:52  <TrueBrain> apt normally uses http still
18:23:58  <TrueBrain> you need to install .. https-transport ?
18:23:59  <TrueBrain> to fix that
18:25:08  <TrueBrain>
18:25:40  <LordAro> yeah, i thought it might be that
18:25:45  <TrueBrain> it seems you can do: make a single job to do a checkout, and use that for the others
18:25:52  <TrueBrain> might even save a bit of time :D
18:26:29  <TrueBrain> I think it requires you to stash the source btw
18:26:30  <TrueBrain> not sure
18:26:36  <TrueBrain> I know it does share some data automatically
18:26:49  <TrueBrain> bit of trying, lot of `run: ls` steps, etc
18:27:07  <LordAro> aye
18:27:10  <LordAro> thanks :)
18:28:22  <LordAro> dunno how that will work with a matrix either
18:28:31  <LordAro> don't exactly want multiple dockers trying to compile the same sources :p
18:28:51  <TrueBrain> make the build folder out-of-tree and you will be fine
18:29:16  <TrueBrain> mkdir /build
18:29:17  <TrueBrain> :P
18:29:22  <LordAro> ha
18:29:31  <TrueBrain> I love cmake for this :)
18:30:53  <TrueBrain> hmm .. can I make a sed that removes all spaces from the style attribute alone? :D
18:44:14  <TrueBrain> made .. something .. for that, lol
18:44:20  <TrueBrain> it is ugly :D Who cares .. just to test stuff :)
18:47:19  <LordAro> TrueBrain: i386 containers fail when downloading artifacts in the same way as they do when trying to checkout repo :p
18:47:32  <TrueBrain> :(
18:47:58  <TrueBrain> other solution is a tiny bit more meh
18:48:04  <TrueBrain> but you can make a Dockerfile in os/linux or what-ever
18:48:20  <TrueBrain> which does the installing, and an entrypoint which does the cmake
18:48:25  <TrueBrain> what is in CompileFarm basically
18:48:37  <TrueBrain> and you can do "uses: ./os/linux/bla"
18:48:42  <TrueBrain> which will build and run the Dockerfile
18:48:46  <TrueBrain> it is really meh
18:52:42  <TrueBrain> mod.c3.a8le_d.27acc.c3.a9l.c3.a9ration_des_trains
18:52:43  <TrueBrain> :D
18:52:59  <LordAro> how curious
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18:59:07  <TrueBrain> time to overload our wiki again ... the API is freaking slow :P
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19:01:37  <TrueBrain> sometimes I get OSError: [Errno 101] Network is unreachable
19:01:43  <TrueBrain> not sure .. what to think of that
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19:05:14  <frosch123> are you using a bot account?
19:07:42  <TrueBrain> no
19:07:46  <TrueBrain> should I? :)
19:08:16  <frosch123> who knows, it's php
19:08:28  <TrueBrain> I now use a session; that is already a huge improvement
19:08:31  <TrueBrain> 1 socket to do everything with :)
19:09:31  <TrueBrain> so much pages are just absolute crap
19:09:40  <TrueBrain> both from a content, but also from a structure
19:12:03  <TrueBrain> still some tables that fail parsing
19:12:12  <TrueBrain> some places where I parse a list, and mediawiki does not
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19:13:08  <TrueBrain> and I absolutely LOVE how things like {{{updated}}} is also translated into all the languages ...... lol
19:13:26  <TrueBrain> can we agree to keep all variables and functions just in english? :)
19:14:56  <frosch123> we can only make the english pages look good. translators have to fix the rest by hand
19:15:11  <LordAro> TrueBrain: so i found why it is the way that it is
19:15:51  <TrueBrain> owh, so the error was not from the line above
19:15:53  <TrueBrain> makes sense .. lol
19:16:49  <TrueBrain> just to check for node12 or node12_alpine ..sounds sane :P
19:17:50  <LordAro> mm
19:17:55  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I am also scanning other languages, and even categories now I see, to check for my render .. but yeah, I was hoping to avoid fixing other languages :D
19:18:05  <LordAro> not sure why that works for the x64 containers though... am investigating..
19:18:08  <TrueBrain> I am basically just hitting every URL in your full.json :P
19:18:09  <LordAro> this is a bit broken
19:18:54  <TrueBrain> btw, LordAro , in case you missed it: there is a TODO in the part that should produce .deb files in CMake
19:19:08  <TrueBrain> seems nobody really implemented it / tested it
19:19:13  <TrueBrain> just so I have said it explicit :D
19:19:49  <LordAro> TrueBrain: i was intending on testing the debs before making a PR :p
19:19:54  <LordAro> but i am a long way from that yet :p
19:20:02  <LordAro> interestingly, none of the containers have a `node12`
19:20:07  <LordAro> so why is it working for some of them..
19:20:19  <TrueBrain> not sure it needs it .. :P
19:20:34  <TrueBrain> you can fake the /etc files and see what that does? :D
19:20:55  <LordAro> it's nothing to do with the /etc files
19:21:00  <LordAro> other than the alpine switch
19:21:24  <LordAro> it must actually be failing in the calling function
19:21:36  <TrueBrain> frosch123: do you also have a json of pages (on their original URL) you are keeping?
19:21:43  <TrueBrain> or are we keeping them all currently?
19:21:55  <TrueBrain> "xargs: unmatched double quote; by default quotes are special to xargs unless you use the -0 option" <- pfft, what a way to go :(
19:22:58  <frosch123> TrueBrain: fullmap contains everything that is not in redirects.json, trash.json or in one of the namespaces i ignore (user pages, talk pages, mediawiki/internal pages)
19:23:25  <TrueBrain> ah .. I am using "jq" to read the JSON, so matching stuff is not easy :P
19:23:28  <frosch123> trash.json will grow slightly, but not much
19:23:37  <TrueBrain> I don't have trash.json atm, but that will be fine :)
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19:27:17  <TrueBrain> meh, to get ride of the capital issue, I need to do a lookup after all .. bah
19:28:05  <frosch123> doesn't my conversion fix all capitalisation issues?
19:28:37  <TrueBrain> I dunno; I am testing against the live site atm, as because of the changes, it was very hard to validate HTML
19:28:55  <TrueBrain> (I am checking the live HTML with the rendered one, basically)
19:29:05  <TrueBrain> meant I had to rewrite the URLs again :P
19:32:39  <glx> LordAro: wouldn't it be better to build source package with cmake and use that in containers ?
19:34:10  <LordAro> not significantly
19:40:53  <LordAro>
19:40:56  <LordAro> GOTCHA
19:41:30  <LordAro> of course a x86 container can't execute a 64bit binary
19:41:47  <TrueBrain> I believe I mentioned earlier that it looks like invalid syscalls :P
19:41:58  <TrueBrain> bit silly of a GitHub Runner to do this, I guess
19:42:09  <TrueBrain> means you cannot execute node-actions on a container
19:42:13  <TrueBrain> but you can do "run"
19:42:19  <TrueBrain> and most likely Dockerfiles
19:42:45  <TrueBrain> but as your git is too old anyway, this is a problem left or right :)
19:43:30  <LordAro> it'd be easier to make it work if it didn't hardcode a magical mysterious path
19:43:51  <TrueBrain> _w is workspace on host
19:44:14  <LordAro> well that removes the need to use upload/download artifacts
19:44:36  <LordAro> kinda hacky and all "using undocumented features", but eh
19:44:49  <TrueBrain> still not sure how you are going to get over the git-version issue :)
19:45:07  <LordAro> well i can do the checkout on host
19:45:12  <LordAro> git version isn't an issue for cmake
19:45:50  <glx> oh and as I think the workspace is shared for all containers you can't use the same "build" dir
19:46:22  <LordAro> mkdir build${{matrix.container}}
19:46:24  <LordAro> fixed.
19:46:27  <LordAro> :p
19:46:39  <TrueBrain> at least put a - in there
19:51:56  <andythenorth> oof naming of things
19:52:01  * andythenorth Port vs. Wharf
19:52:07  <andythenorth> completely not obvious
19:56:09  <LordAro> CMake Error at /usr/share/cmake-3.5/Modules/TestBigEndian.cmake:51
19:56:16  <LordAro> i'll be honest, i wasn't expecting that
19:57:31  <TrueBrain> ha, lol, no :)
19:57:59  <TrueBrain> hmm, even if I look up what the correct name is for wiki pages, even than I have a diff because of casing difference
19:58:01  <TrueBrain> wuthhhhh
20:00:53  <TrueBrain> ah, redirects .. ugh
20:01:41  <TrueBrain> there we go
20:02:58  <TrueBrain> another thing I haven't figured out .. sometimes it makes [1] from link-text
20:03:01  <TrueBrain> no clue when/why/how
20:05:09  <TrueBrain> okay, first 20 pages validate fully now .. \o/
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20:25:51  <TrueBrain> okay .. ran 1100 pages .. 680 pass, 450 have a diff, and 25 fail to render .. over 50% done, I guess :P
20:27:08  <TrueBrain> +<a href="/user:0" title="user:0">
20:27:08  <TrueBrain> +0</a>
20:27:12  <TrueBrain> lol .. guess why that happened :P
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20:52:55  <andythenorth> uff
20:52:59  <andythenorth> or uuff
21:04:29  <supermop_Home_> ok
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21:21:07  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: that sounds like "Error Code: 0. No Error"
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