Log for #openttd on 24th October 2020:
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03:44:51  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] azubieta commented on pull request #8329: Build AppImage
03:45:08  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] azubieta updated pull request #8329: Build AppImage
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10:35:17  <andythenorth> yo
10:37:19  <TrueBrain> slowest page to render, 3.5 seconds ..
10:37:32  <TrueBrain> I wonder if I can make that somewhat faster .. but okay, first I need to fix <p> tags ..
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10:44:00  <TrueBrain> lot of time is spend in C-world, as it turns out :P
10:44:03  <TrueBrain> guess in regex :D
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10:56:17  <frosch123> the internet is a weird place...
10:56:38  <frosch123> most sites are currently unreachable for me. except all sites related to ottd :) even irc works
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10:58:26  <TrueBrain> Magic!
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11:31:47  <TrueBrain> at least I am happy the priorities of your internet are in order :P
11:50:22  <TrueBrain> when to p and when not to p, that is the question :D
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12:07:08  <andythenorth> ships
12:07:11  <andythenorth> are hard to draw
12:07:17  <andythenorth> IRL they are quite ugly, this does not aid
12:07:30  <TrueBrain> drawing ugly things is easy
12:07:32  <TrueBrain> I do it all the time
12:07:43  <glx> same here
12:12:37  <andythenorth> lolz are strong today
12:12:51  <andythenorth> I have to un-ugly IRL for pixels
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13:53:44  <andythenorth> hmm
13:53:52  <andythenorth> it's better, but I wonder if anyone but me can see that :P
14:15:15  <TrueBrain> where mediawiki does and doesn't add <p>s feels so random :P
14:15:30  <TrueBrain> I think it depends on the source .. which is a bit odd tbfh :P
14:22:30  <frosch123> andythenorth: it's pretty clean now. the ship on the new drawing looks "newer" than the one on the old drawing
14:24:08  <mirrorb2rd> there was some newgrf ship i was always wishing for, forgot what it was
14:29:25  <frosch123> was it an ekranoplan?
14:37:27  <TrueBrain> okay ... I think I have a first version of wikitexthtml done .. now I can build truewiki :)
14:37:40  <TrueBrain> frosch123: is your data repository up-to-date?
14:44:22  <TrueBrain> owh, wait, no, I still have to do ToC! Almost forgot :D
14:48:07  <frosch123> i am almost done with reviewing my sorting
14:48:16  <frosch123> i'll push new stuff this evening
14:52:24  <TrueBrain> \o/
14:55:35  <mirrorb2rd> not an ekranoplan no
14:55:46  <mirrorb2rd> i think a mini tanker or something? though i think the... whatever the ship newgrf is called - has it
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14:59:29  <TrueBrain> and for the nay-sayers, as we all know there will be nay-sayers, this is the full result of my render, compared to the HTML of mediawiki:
15:00:38  <TrueBrain> owh, it is naysayers, funny, did not expect that
15:11:46  <frosch123> are they related to ni-knights?
15:12:02  <TrueBrain> WE ARE THE KNIGHTS THAT SAY NI
15:12:10  <TrueBrain> I am no longer allowed to say that out loud
15:12:13  <TrueBrain> it got permabanned :(
15:12:29  <TrueBrain> turns out, it triggers people a LOT if you do this at odd hours very loud
15:12:56  <TrueBrain> I know, shocker
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15:30:24  <TrueBrain> still funny how sometimes our current wiki just isn't there for a bit of time :P
15:30:28  <TrueBrain> I don't want to know :)
15:39:54  <TrueBrain> <- how this TOC is made, is .. euh ... yeah
15:40:04  <TrueBrain> so the page has 5 sections: L3, L3, L2, L3, L3
15:40:09  <TrueBrain> which is rendered as L1, L1, L1, L2, L2
15:40:12  <TrueBrain> like .. wuth?
15:49:57  <andythenorth> oof
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16:10:19  <frosch123> <- lol, we even link there on every page :)
16:10:35  <TrueBrain> it is true!
16:12:11  <mirrorb2rd> i found so many pages that didn't seem to be listed anywhere
16:12:31  <mirrorb2rd> if you want someone to tidy up ai things i could volunteer maybe. though i likely have too little experience
16:12:34  <frosch123> don't worry. that will change in the next months
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16:12:46  <rptr_> specifically AI*
16:13:19  <frosch123> we are changing to a tree-structured wiki, instead of having a no-structure wiki
16:13:44  <rptr_> oh, so there'll be a tree on the main page, and every page will link to the parent?
16:13:47  <frosch123> which results in no page being "not listed"
16:13:53  <rptr_> will it still be the same software?
16:14:07  <frosch123> it's still about openttd :p
16:14:08  <rptr_> your name contains the password of 90% of openttd companies!
16:14:12  <rptr_> i mean mediawiki
16:14:34  <rptr_> i was telling someone earlier to change their password to something safer. "ok it's 123456 now
16:14:37  <rptr_> it's twice as safe!
16:15:28  <frosch123> recommend them "P@ssw0rd", it contains all types of characters
16:16:20  <rptr_> what about unicode
16:16:46  <rptr_> hm. i found out how to write hiragana with my default layout/ input method, now i can't find it
16:16:54  <frosch123> ok, P@§§w0rd
16:18:06  <rptr_> 癶
16:28:18  <andythenorth> older ship?
16:29:16  <andythenorth> surprisingly close to
16:31:38  <rptr_> add titanic
16:31:45  <rptr_> reliability 10%
16:32:02  <rptr_> oh there is one already
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17:12:05  <frosch123> andythenorth: <- for heating your oven
17:13:08  <frosch123> though i guess it's still ridiculous to have 169 templates for 618 pages :p
17:13:42  <andythenorth> not necessarily?
17:13:47  <andythenorth> if they're just navigation and crap
17:14:07  <andythenorth> @calc 618/169
17:14:07  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 3.65680473373
17:14:10  <andythenorth> hmm
17:14:32  <andythenorth> I would have guessed at 4:1 or 5:1 pages:templates in most web projects
17:14:42  <andythenorth> most = ones I write :P
17:15:02  <andythenorth> unrelated, I'm sure we could delete more of development, but eh :P
17:16:17  <frosch123> about half of development are the "how to write an ai" pages
17:17:36  <frosch123> anyway, 121 pages in the manual is a reasonable number. so maybe we find someone to dust them off
17:17:45  <frosch123> happy about that :)
17:18:32  <andythenorth> nice work
17:18:44  <andythenorth> does it still say goods grows towns? o_O
17:19:07  <andythenorth> I think someone explained to me recently that goods does grow towns somehow
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17:22:50  <frosch123> andythenorth: yes, most newgrf do not have any "trash" cargo. so towns have to grow for storing all the deliveries somehow
17:23:53  <andythenorth> I think this is the first ship I've drawn that I'm at all happy with
17:24:02  <rptr_> i was thinking about a garbage cargo two days ago, would be nice
17:24:11  <andythenorth> sprite isn't done, but eh, it's better
17:24:44  <andythenorth> trying to get a bright toy-ish appearance
17:29:56  <rptr_> u r 2 hard on urself
17:31:08  <andythenorth> I have drawn 10,000+ sprites
17:31:12  <andythenorth> I can afford to be
17:31:48  <rptr_> wow!
17:31:55  <rptr_> for openttd only or in general?
17:32:10  <rptr_> i've drawn max 100, and unfortunately haven't saved almost any :(
17:32:28  <andythenorth> openttd
17:32:40  <rptr_> hm. that includes redrawing i guess?
17:33:11  <andythenorth> depends how you count the angles
17:33:29  <rptr_> i remember there was a Toyland-to-Mars conversion thing which supposedly required some annoying changes to be made (replacing toyland or something), but i've seen people changing the terrain with newgrfs. so is that some new thing that is possible?
17:33:35  <andythenorth> but Iron Horse has 500 trains, with between 8 and 32 sprites per train
17:33:42  <rptr_> ah.
17:33:43  <andythenorth> and I've done 5 or 6 other newgrfs
17:33:56  <rptr_> ok that sounds more sane somehow
17:34:31  <andythenorth> I can do about 2 vehicles per day on average, and I've been drawing for about 10 years I think
17:52:04  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
17:52:04  <DorpsGek_III>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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18:35:07  <Wolf01> Building cars with lego is hard.
18:39:26  <TrueBrain> depends; if you follow the manual it is okay-ish :P Depending on the size ... :D
18:39:32  <TrueBrain> right, Table of Contents renders correctly too
18:39:33  <TrueBrain> sweet
18:42:13  <Wolf01> No manual, also realistic steering with MacPherson type suspension and FWD
18:44:29  <Wolf01> And the front wheels fall off because I can't attach them firmly, so I'll need to rework the suspension part
19:05:53  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] newtrashcan commented on issue #8300: Low framerate on macOS
19:06:19  <TrueBrain> frosch123: in the export ideally we also remove a few variables .. SERVER, TALKPAGENAME, fullurl
19:06:23  <TrueBrain> they all make very little sense :P
19:06:28  <TrueBrain> but we can do these kind of cleanups after :)
19:08:14  <frosch123> haha, there is worse :) various templates need manual cleanup. i cannot automate url-translation when they are combines via #switch :)
19:08:39  <TrueBrain> I know
19:08:52  <TrueBrain> I did not expect you to automate everything there :P
19:10:27  <TrueBrain> <- right, running the new render engine now .. few pages are broken till I have a new export :) (no rush; just mentioning)
19:10:35  <TrueBrain> next job is to clean the CSS :D But that is not for tonight :)
19:29:36  <frosch123> unicode is so magical...
19:30:03  <frosch123> 1234⁄5678   <- how does that even work
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19:37:17  <Wolf01> Lolwhat?
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21:21:34  <frosch12> TrueBrain: i pushed stuff :)
21:22:00  <frosch12> also, what was the message when i *left* chat last time? :)
21:25:51  <LordAro> you got killed for being a spambot, apparently
21:25:59  <LordAro> 1234/5678...
21:28:00  <TrueBrain> haha, frosch12 the spammer :D
21:28:03  <frosch12> well, that was no normal /
21:28:08  <frosch12> but also no dangerous slash
21:28:44  <TrueBrain> well, I guess spammers use that a lot :P
21:29:15  <frosch12>
21:29:24  <TrueBrain> frosch12: I am missing a lot of images, it seems
21:29:32  <TrueBrain> en/Code.png, to name one of many
21:29:44  <frosch12> i replaced all slashes whcih are not supposed to be path separators with fancy slashes
21:30:01  <TrueBrain> well, "en" is the folder I guess .. there is no "code.png"
21:30:21  <TrueBrain> <- well, see for yourself :)
21:30:21  <frosch12> hmm, so my reference tracking does not work :(
21:30:42  <TrueBrain> <- found one image that does work :D
21:31:11  <TrueBrain> and it is not english :P
21:32:03  <frosch12> there are even two images on that page
21:32:26  <TrueBrain> lot of other dead-links of pages that should exist :)
21:32:40  <TrueBrain> <- seems the folder got lost for most links in the first paragraph
21:33:07  <TrueBrain> tomorrow I will make a version of truewiki available, so you can test this locally; might be easier to check your export with :)
21:35:55  <TrueBrain> many pages have "{{en/table of contents}}" instead of "{{en/Table of contents}}"
21:36:03  <TrueBrain> (and as result, fail to load)
21:39:13  <TrueBrain> <- I was like, that page feels cut off ... <- turns out it is
21:39:16  <TrueBrain> what a weird way to end a page ..
21:40:58  <TrueBrain> frosch12: where did the AI pages go to? Trashcan?
21:41:17  <TrueBrain> ah, Manual/Script
21:41:35  <TrueBrain> the right-bar links to an unknown page, hence the question :D
21:42:30  <TrueBrain> oeh, found a bug with my <p> inserter :)
21:45:18  <frosch12> <- the links look fine to me
21:46:43  <frosch12> lol, someone was really upset about trains driving on the left. renamed the screenshots to ...-en.png and created new ones with swapped driving side
21:49:04  <TrueBrain> frosch12: <- link on the right from here doesn't bring you to that page :)
21:49:49  <TrueBrain> and yes, I am blaming wikitext for all this difficult bla with links etc :D
21:50:06  <frosch12> hmm, so my redirect resolving does not work
21:56:00  <frosch12> TrueBrain: now there are more images
21:56:15  <frosch12> also found the link issue, will fix tomorrow
21:56:36  <TrueBrain> \o/
21:57:09  <TrueBrain> IMAGES :D
21:57:19  <TrueBrain> not all yet, but more :)
21:57:50  <frosch12> when i switched to wikitreeparser, my conversion unlearned some link-fixes
21:57:58  <TrueBrain> as that goes :)
21:58:03  <frosch12> i repair namespace capitalisation, but forgot to capitalize first letter
21:58:07  <TrueBrain> en/OpenttdLogo.png mainly is missing, it seems
21:58:40  <TrueBrain> ah, and more images with all lowercase etc; guess that will be fixed tomorrow too? :D
21:59:09  <frosch12> i hope so :)
21:59:25  <frosch12> i removed the .translation and .category stuff. i assume truewiki will generate those :)
21:59:55  <TrueBrain> you assumed correctly :)
22:00:05  <TrueBrain> fixed <p> issue I found
22:00:08  <TrueBrain> mostly CSS now, it seems
22:01:51  <TrueBrain> we will also have to rewrite all the #<anchor> links
22:01:58  <TrueBrain> as I switched to slugify, instead of what-ever it is that mediawiki does
22:02:00  <TrueBrain> but we can do that post
22:02:21  <TrueBrain> <- so close to being correct :(
22:03:04  <frosch12> ah, one of the templates that need manual fixing :)
22:04:17  <TrueBrain> yeah, it got en/ twice ..
22:04:49  <frosch12> TrueBrain: when you create the default link text, it probably looks better if you only use the last path component: [[en/foo/bar]]  -> <a>bar</a>
22:05:29  <TrueBrain> I already fixed that on most places I could find
22:05:31  <TrueBrain> which did I miss?
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22:06:29  <TrueBrain> <- why did you insert en/ in this template, before for example "{{{6}}}" ?
22:06:54  <frosch12> ah, never mind. i misread that link
22:07:23  <TrueBrain> I am sure I missed some places to fix the title, so let me know if you find them :D
22:08:09  <frosch12> i check for { in some places, but apparently not in all :)
22:08:32  <TrueBrain> mostly surprised as there is no wikilink in sight
22:08:36  <frosch12> i can fix that
22:08:47  <frosch12> haha, there is :)
22:09:19  <TrueBrain> I think tomorrow I will first create a linter, that just tells us which pages have broken links
22:09:22  <frosch12> the parameters to {{en/Tab on}} are page names
22:09:26  <TrueBrain> might be useful to see if we missed some odds and ends
22:09:27  <frosch12> so i replace them
22:09:37  <TrueBrain> ah .. and also in the one calling this template
22:09:39  <TrueBrain> yeah, I see :)
22:09:45  <frosch12> but in other places i check whether the names are param themself, which i forgot here
22:09:45  <TrueBrain> pretty sure we will have more of these ..
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22:10:14  <TrueBrain> so, CSS + Linter + making this available to you too :)
22:10:18  <TrueBrain> sounds like a sane todo list :)
22:10:30  <frosch12> + get unbanned from irc somehow :p
22:10:39  <TrueBrain> haha :D
22:10:48  <TrueBrain> from all the shit I have said this week, your UTF got you banned
22:10:53  <TrueBrain> it is brilliant :)
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22:12:01  <TrueBrain> whoho, fixed another typo :D
22:12:10  <TrueBrain> so many changes to the wiki lately
22:12:12  <TrueBrain> IT IS ALIVE :D
22:12:20  <TrueBrain> I keep finding errors in user-input .. :P
22:12:36  <TrueBrain> <- I mean, I understand how that can be a typo
22:12:51  <TrueBrain> I don't understand translators noticed it, and fixed it .. IN THEIR translation only :P
22:13:39  <TrueBrain> "Cannot place signals on a bridge or inside a tunnel. But a patch by HackaLittleBit can simulate signals being placed automatically."
22:14:11  <TrueBrain> not sure that has a place on a wiki :)
22:16:32  <TrueBrain> I like the layout of the wiki this way btw :D
22:19:23  <TrueBrain> haha, I was wondering why a page didn't render with the export, but does on the normal wiki .. a table with {{wikitable}} .. but wrong casing, so it inserts a link, as that is what mediawiki does .. and a link in that location is illegal :D
22:19:25  <TrueBrain> ghehe
22:19:52  <TrueBrain> easy fixes :)
22:20:03  <frosch12> <- i liked that page. you can never have enough table of contents
22:20:50  <TrueBrain> <- that filename ... lol
22:20:57  <TrueBrain> OMG! LOL
22:21:17  <TrueBrain> and on none of them is that page linked from
22:21:56  <TrueBrain> <- looks equally terrible
22:22:24  <frosch12> you have a lot of \n or <br> in those tocs
22:22:38  <TrueBrain> margin :)
22:22:41  <TrueBrain> the CSS is a bit off :P
22:22:42  <frosch12> oh, is that your <p> issue, you keep talking?
22:22:59  <TrueBrain> no
22:23:02  <TrueBrain> it is the gollum CSS
22:23:12  <TrueBrain> if you disable the margin of the dl dd properties, it looks a lot better
22:23:30  <frosch12> ok, andy stuff :)
22:23:47  <TrueBrain> I have to do the CSS from scratch, I think
22:23:52  <TrueBrain> with just cheating from gollum and mediawiki
22:23:58  <TrueBrain> I think first I make a page around the content
22:24:03  <TrueBrain> but not sure how we want it
22:24:14  <TrueBrain> on the bottom categories
22:24:19  <TrueBrain> in the top bar translations
22:24:26  <TrueBrain> login/logout/edit on top
22:24:39  <TrueBrain> do we want a menu on the left?
22:24:44  <TrueBrain> or just a "Main Page" on the top?
22:25:00  <TrueBrain> I am not going to do stuff like "Random page", as that is just bullshit
22:25:06  <TrueBrain> Toolbox is also not super useful
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22:25:39  <TrueBrain> meh; I will make something stupid simple; that will trigger either L or A sufficient, most likely
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22:26:17  <TrueBrain> but first, I am going to catch some ZZzzzzzzzzs
22:27:23  <frosch12> i would like the directory structure on the left
22:27:33  <frosch12> then we can get rid off a lot of those toc template
22:27:54  <frosch12> though it would be sorted alphabetical, instead of manual
22:28:27  <TrueBrain> not a bad idea :)
22:28:48  <TrueBrain> hopefully people won't "fix" the sorting by z_ prefixes etc :P
22:28:52  <frosch12> also, which search engine do we want to use? duckduck?
22:29:02  <TrueBrain> sounds like a plan
22:29:17  <TrueBrain> happy you don't suggest doing that ourself :D
22:30:15  <frosch12>   <- i always use search engines for forums and wiki and stuff :)
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22:30:34  <TrueBrain> means it first needs to be indexed, ofc
22:30:51  <frosch12> time will solve that :)
22:30:59  <TrueBrain> they have nice iframe support
22:31:05  <TrueBrain> means we have to set the right security headers, but that will be fine
22:31:22  <TrueBrain> it just looks a bit ugly, but meh, who cares
22:31:53  <TrueBrain>;margin:0;padding:0;width:258px;height:40px;
22:31:54  <TrueBrain> I mean ..
22:31:57  <TrueBrain> not the best looking
22:32:13  <TrueBrain> oops, a bit too much copy/paste
22:32:23  <TrueBrain>
22:32:23  <TrueBrain> :P
22:33:00  <TrueBrain> reminds me, I should install Firefox ...
22:33:13  <frosch12> i use it
22:33:24  <TrueBrain> bit dòne with Google stuff honestly :)
22:33:34  <frosch12> oh, i thought you wanted it for testing
22:33:40  <TrueBrain> nah
22:33:49  <TrueBrain> well, that too, I guess
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22:44:22  <frosch12> night
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