Log for #openttd on 31st December 2020:
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00:07:18  <supermop_Home> Timberwolf did foster work on locomotion? its nearly all rendered then clamped sprites?
00:09:20  <Timberwolf> Yes, it was all of Chris Sawyer's long-term collaborators.
00:09:56  <Timberwolf> The rendering-and-clamping approach came from Roller Coaster Tycoon.
00:10:11  <supermop_Home> somehow it works a little better there
00:10:25  <Timberwolf> I think RCT has a better palette, and also more hand-drawn art.
00:10:44  <Timberwolf> The vehicles, rides and some buildings are rendered, a lot of the rest is still pixel art.
00:10:45  <supermop_Home> which is odd as nearly everything in rct has color masking
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00:13:35  <supermop_Home> i need to figure out which brick colors can be recolored to which stone colors
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08:45:07  <andythenorth> yo
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09:48:12  <Timberwolf> I need a test FIRS where every industry produces all of its possible outputs at a constant rate.
09:49:13  <Eddi|zuHause> in a normal grf, that would be an easy change, but in FIRS' concoction of layered template engines... dunno
09:50:05  <Timberwolf> Concoctions of layered template engines are the way forward.
09:50:08  <Eddi|zuHause> would be easier to make a test game where you set up the industries in close proximity and build a simple supply chain
09:50:34  <Timberwolf> Heh. I have one of those, then I realised I need to change GRF ID. :)
09:51:08  <Timberwolf> "Simple" is not such a thing when you're testing the end outputs of Steeltown.
09:51:15  <Eddi|zuHause> so, delete all the industries, change GRF, rebuild the industries?
09:57:28  <andythenorth> Timberwolf fork?
09:57:42  <andythenorth> what are you testing for exactly? :)
09:58:21  <andythenorth> pff "in a normal grf, that would be an easy change, but in FIRS' concoction of layered template engines... dunno"
09:58:28  <andythenorth> shall we just think that one through for a moment :P
09:59:37  <Timberwolf> andythenorth: Mostly seeing how variable load states and randomised cargo colours look in game.
09:59:38  <Eddi|zuHause> well, it could be one of two things: 1) it's a one-line change buried deep in some configuration file, or 2) you're getting horribly lost trying to find that file/line, which may or may not exist
09:59:45  * andythenorth wonders about sending Eddi|zuHause the raw nml to try that :)
10:00:04  <andythenorth> Timberwolf are they all implemented as cargo layers?
10:00:19  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i don't think the generated nml counts as "normal GRF"
10:00:38  <Timberwolf> andythenorth: Yeah, sprite stacks for all the cargo.
10:00:53  <andythenorth> Timberwolf I feel your pain, this is why I generate all the cargos into the vehicle :P
10:01:03  <andythenorth> setting up games to test cargos...nah
10:01:41  <andythenorth> can you do it in the compile?
10:01:56  <andythenorth> i.e. do a test of compositing vehicle + sprite, save to disk?
10:02:53  <andythenorth> it's an easy job with e.g. PIL or ImageMagick
10:02:58  <Timberwolf> Probably, it's mainly the in-game test I'm after as a broadband check of "is the right cargo type assigned?" "is the palette remapping good?" "does it work across multiple company colours" etc.
10:03:36  <andythenorth> well I can help you fork FIRS if you need
10:03:46  <andythenorth> 'debug mode'
10:03:54  <andythenorth> 'grf developer mode'
10:04:07  <Timberwolf> Heh.
10:04:09  <andythenorth> I put some of the palette remapping into my compile too
10:04:22  <andythenorth> it's just so much easier to eyeball a docs image
10:05:06  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause I concede, there is nothing normal about the generated nml :)
10:05:15  <andythenorth> I could decompile to to nfo maybe?
10:05:18  <andythenorth> that's quite normal
10:06:16  <Eddi|zuHause> it'll still be extremely gargantuan, on account of being the output of a template engine
10:06:17  <andythenorth> Timberwolf I'm going to see what putting '1600' into this line does
10:06:53  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause I'm not going to persuade you to patch this manually one industry at a time, am I? :(
10:07:30  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that's like comparing a disassembly of the windows kernel to the of an early DOS version
10:14:42  <andythenorth> Timberwolf this does it for most secondary
10:14:52  <andythenorth> or I can dm you the grf
10:15:23  <Timberwolf> Oh cool. Let me have a go at building it, would be useful to get the build chain going.
10:15:58  <andythenorth>
10:16:29  <andythenorth> it's mostly just pip install [stuff]
10:17:00  <Timberwolf> Cool. (This will be a "Timberwolf discovers how broken the Python environment on this particular computer is" adventure then)
10:17:51  <andythenorth> virtualenv ftw
10:18:37  <andythenorth> I am tempting fate here, but python is entirely under control
10:19:03  <andythenorth> install official binaries (and pypy) for each needed version, virtualenv everything everywhere, never touch the OS python, done
10:20:01  <Timberwolf> Yeah, the Python devs I've worked with recommend the same.
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10:24:57  <andythenorth> maybe I don't abandon this idea
10:25:16  <andythenorth> might work really well with regions
10:25:25  <andythenorth> then it can have a gas grid
10:25:42  <andythenorth> or NRT pipes :P
10:26:19  <Timberwolf> Cool, I have a firs.grf!
10:26:24  <Timberwolf> Now to make that change.
10:27:05  <Timberwolf> The only slight stumble I had was not realising that while pillow isn't listed as a dependency, it *is* a dependency of nml so will get installed along with that.
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10:43:59  <Timberwolf> Success!
10:45:34  <andythenorth> happy days :)
10:45:43  <andythenorth> TimberFIRS
10:45:48  <andythenorth> voxel edition
10:46:15  <Timberwolf> Heh. I gave it a new ID so I could keep it around for testing stuff.
10:46:50  <andythenorth> voxel industry replacement or go hom?
10:46:52  <andythenorth> home *
10:47:05  <andythenorth> maybe not now?
10:48:11  <Timberwolf> Probably more buildings for stations, followed by towns.
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10:57:31  <andythenorth> voxel base set :P
10:57:43  <andythenorth> bad andythenorth
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13:20:55  <andythenorth> css is so....meh
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13:28:26  <Eddi|zuHause> strange, satisfactory doesn't want to start today. it was working yesterday
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13:38:02  <andythenorth> very unfinished tech tree page for ships
13:38:11  <andythenorth> copied from Iron Horse, so quite train-reference
13:38:42  <andythenorth> tech tree concept is a bit weird for ships, there's very little to compare
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13:41:20  <Eddi|zuHause> how is it a "tech tree" when all ships are introduced at the same time?
13:44:12  <Timberwolf> tech stump.
13:46:21  <andythenorth> tech stump D
13:46:31  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause yes
13:46:58  <andythenorth> the tree view is quite a useful design tool, there are currently 50% of planned ships missing
13:47:07  <andythenorth> but I'm not sure they're even a a good idea yet
13:48:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i fail to see the motivation between picking a barge, or a side loader, or a specialist
13:49:07  <andythenorth> same
13:49:18  <andythenorth> but I tried only having 'freighters' and it's very visually bland
13:49:35  <andythenorth> ships are weird
13:50:08  <Eddi|zuHause> i would say single-body ships would be more for high seas, and barges more for rivers/canals
13:50:20  <andythenorth> and running sea-going ships on canals or lakes is weird, so both types are needed
13:50:29  <andythenorth> I did try having just ships
13:50:33  <Eddi|zuHause> but i always feel that that distinction isn't implemented very well in the game
13:50:36  <andythenorth> suppose I could just have barges?
13:50:47  <andythenorth> barges...cross the north sea etc
13:51:04  * andythenorth tries it
13:52:03  <Eddi|zuHause> and the old problem of having to provide different sizes, which are both too many options, and not the right option at the same time
13:52:03  <andythenorth> could work
13:52:13  <andythenorth> yeah the sizes
13:52:19  <andythenorth> I did try 'refit to different size'
13:52:23  <andythenorth> via subtypes
13:52:39  <andythenorth> it's technically a solution, but it's really not nice to actually use
13:52:49  <andythenorth> 'ships are weird'
13:53:08  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that's a good idea to reduce the buy menu length, but it's to hidden and too side-effect-y for the average player
13:53:36  <Eddi|zuHause> we need the "combine multiple vehicles into a single buy menu entry" thing
13:55:53  <andythenorth> or % full load
13:56:10  <andythenorth>
13:56:13  <andythenorth>
13:56:22  <andythenorth> "variants"
13:59:07  <andythenorth> hmm it is better with just barges
14:00:10  <andythenorth> oh I remember, barges look silly serving oil rigs
14:00:16  <andythenorth> which starts to unpick the 'just barges' route
14:02:25  <andythenorth> also on 2x UI zoom, 128px ships are huge
14:02:42  <andythenorth> and the buy menu window shows only 7 at once
14:02:48  <andythenorth> and most of the name is clipped
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14:08:00  <Eddi|zuHause> you can scale down the buy menu sprites by x0.5
14:08:33  <andythenorth>
14:08:48  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause is that scaling a built-in?
14:08:54  <Eddi|zuHause> no
14:08:55  <andythenorth> I can do it in PIL otherwise
14:09:14  <Eddi|zuHause> you just provide different sprites in the GRF
14:09:31  <andythenorth> I'll need to detect the UI zoom, that's a built-in though?
14:09:39  <Eddi|zuHause> checking extra_callback_info1, i think
14:09:44  <andythenorth> thx
14:10:51  <Eddi|zuHause>
14:12:38  <michi_cc> andythenorth: I don't think UI zoom is exposed to newgrfs (desync and all), but you should be able to supply a sprite with multiple zooms.
14:13:01  <Eddi|zuHause> so you either check extra_callback_info1 against 0x20 for affecting just the purchase list, or you mask "extra_callback_info1 && 0x20" first to apply to all windows which display an unpurchased vehicle
14:13:04  <andythenorth> I'll try it later
14:13:14  <andythenorth> it's 'weird' having half-size ships in buy menu
14:13:19  <andythenorth> but it's unusable currently
14:13:39  <Eddi|zuHause> er, & not &&
14:13:58  <Eddi|zuHause> well, either is fine in this context, probably. just the result is different :)
14:14:36  <Eddi|zuHause> with & you get the result 0 or 0x20, and with && you get the result 0 or 1
14:17:04  <andythenorth> not sure how I'll downsample the sprites without losing fidelity
14:17:04  <andythenorth> hmm
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14:22:00  <andythenorth> yeah reducing the sprite to 50% of original is quite unworkable
14:22:19  <andythenorth> hmm
14:31:55  <andythenorth> think I'm stuck with giant sprites and clipped ship names :)
14:32:00  <andythenorth> or I redesign the set
14:47:38  <andythenorth> is this better?
14:47:56  <andythenorth> compared to
14:48:42  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: can you override the x2 zoom sprites with the same dimensions as x1 zoom sprites?
14:49:02  <Eddi|zuHause> (not saying this is a good idea)
14:49:23  <andythenorth> not sure, the x2 is a mystery
14:49:47  <Eddi|zuHause> if you're going to cut off sprites, at least right-align them first
14:50:25  <andythenorth> it will be odd for ships that have house at front also
14:50:26  <Eddi|zuHause> (although that might lose you visual clues on how large a ship will be)
14:50:38  <andythenorth> maybe I have to clip left / right depending on house
14:50:40  <andythenorth> or middle
14:51:14  <andythenorth> I think I file this under 'another day'
14:53:48  <andythenorth> I could remove the 128px ships
14:53:53  <andythenorth> and maybe the 112px ones
15:07:16  <Samu> Stack Overflow
15:08:03  <Samu> on
15:08:54  <Samu> how to increase the stack?
15:08:58  <Samu> or something
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15:10:40  <Samu>  	The maximum number of stack frames supported by Visual Studio has been exceeded.
15:10:48  <LordAro> increasing the stack is technically doable, but is not a good solution
15:12:59  <Samu> the other solution may be limiting the number of wagons in a chain of wagons
15:13:01  <andythenorth> this one goes to 11
15:14:02  <Samu> this chain has 27,127 wagons
15:14:12  <LordAro> Samu: or deleting wagons in a non-recursive fashion
15:14:23  <LordAro> (such that it doesn't increase the stack size)
15:14:44  <Samu> it's something about scalar destructor
15:14:56  <Samu> external code is involved
15:15:52  <LordAro> scalar destructor? that's not a term i'm familiar with
15:16:55  <Samu> well, let me get the right name, brb
15:18:00  <Samu> Train::'scalar deleting destructor' - Source information is not available
15:19:06  <LordAro> hmm
15:20:28  <Samu> but something seems recursive here
15:21:10  <Samu> ~Train() calls ~Vehicle() which calls ~Train() which calls ~Vehicle(), etc...
15:21:19  <Eddi|zuHause> "scalar" is typically used in vector-contexts to denote a non-vectorized number
15:22:06  <Eddi|zuHause> how that would relate to "destructor" i don't know
15:22:24  <Samu> keeps doing that until all of 27k wagons are deleted
15:22:35  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it's a destructor of a type called "scalar"
15:23:15  <Samu> but it stacks overflows at some point
15:25:27  <LordAro> i'll see if i can reproduce on linux and get a proper stack trace :)
15:28:04  <Eddi|zuHause> might want to artificially reduce stack size to trigger it :)
15:29:02  <LordAro> iirc linux's default stack size is smaller than windows anyway
15:29:39  <Eddi|zuHause> but the person said he could recover it on linux
15:30:00  <Eddi|zuHause> and that's probably distribution specific
15:31:54  <LordAro> yes you're right
15:32:02  <LordAro> it hangs for a while, but ultimately does continue
15:32:55  <Eddi|zuHause> and the stack size itself might not be the whole story, the calling convention might influence how much stack is consumed per recursion level
15:34:00  <LordAro> aye
15:42:56  <andythenorth> if only we had a PR for this :P
15:43:42  <Eddi|zuHause> if only
15:44:10  <LordAro> i can't see any recursion happening
15:44:39  <LordAro> #2  0x0000555555fcb1c9 in RestoreTrainBackup(TrainList&) (list=std::vector of length 27127, capacity 32768 = {...}) at /home/lordaro/dev/openttd/src/train_cmd.cpp:836
15:44:43  <LordAro> just trying to do this a lot
15:46:09  <TrueBrain> why is there no upper-limit on the amount of wagons a train can have, one might wonder :D
15:46:14  <Eddi|zuHause> then it's probably std-library implementation dependent
15:46:20  <LordAro> not entirely sure why building up a vector of a few thousand pointers takes a particularly long time
15:46:33  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i think there is a limit for trains, but this is a free-wagon-chain
15:46:52  <TrueBrain> why is there no upper-limit on "free-wagon-chain" :D
15:46:59  <TrueBrain> the question doesn't really change ;) :P
15:47:07  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: so build 100 trains with 100 wagons each, sell all the engines, get a 100k free wagon chain
15:47:22  <TrueBrain> a run-away-AI
15:47:25  <TrueBrain> SkyNet all over again
15:48:02  <Eddi|zuHause> well, we probably have a limit to 64k wagons
15:48:51  <LordAro> ah, SetNext is not the cheap function its name would imply
15:49:35  <LordAro> that is... weird
15:50:12  <LordAro>
15:51:28  <Eddi|zuHause> assert(this != next); <-- shouldn't that be "this->next"?
15:51:40  <Eddi|zuHause> ah no
15:51:43  <Eddi|zuHause> that's the parameter
15:51:55  <LordAro> cycle protection :D
15:52:01  <andythenorth> nielsm think you might revisit this ever? :)
15:52:15  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i was reading too quickly
15:53:27  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure i get the point of that loop
15:54:46  <LordAro> i'm not sure it's correct
15:54:55  <LordAro> first is supposed to be the head of the train/vehicle
15:55:15  <LordAro> but it's setting it to the (old) next?
15:55:16  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, so the function should be more like "RemoveFront"
15:56:24  <Eddi|zuHause> "this->next->previous->next"... is not confusing at all :p
15:56:49  <LordAro> quite common when working with linked lists :p
15:57:56  * LordAro sees what happens if he removes those loops
15:58:11  <TrueBrain> YOLO! :P
15:59:31  <Eddi|zuHause> is that used anywhere else than ~Vehicle()?
15:59:48  <LordAro> openttd: /home/lordaro/dev/openttd/src/train_cmd.cpp:123: void Train::ConsistChanged(ConsistChangeFlags): Assertion `u->First() == this' failed.
15:59:51  <LordAro> immediately :D
15:59:59  <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: lots of places, just not in that file
16:00:07  <LordAro> Vehicle is the base class for a lot of things
16:00:38  <Eddi|zuHause> like i said, the function is probably misnamed
16:01:54  <LordAro> poorly named, certainly
16:02:42  <TrueBrain> in case you want to assign blame
16:02:54  <TrueBrain> it once did exactly what it said ;)
16:04:31  <LordAro> heh
16:04:48  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that looks a bit weird
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16:06:38  <Eddi|zuHause> so that patch added v->First() as some kind of cache
16:06:52  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #8470: Change #8325: Make engine reliability independent of introduction date
16:07:15  <TrueBrain> I still do not understand "Change:" as commit message prefix .. isn't everything a change? :D
16:07:27  <LordAro> "user visible change"
16:07:40  <LordAro> "but not actually anything particularly new"
16:07:51  <TrueBrain> is it written down anywhere what is meant with the prefixes? I only know of the commit checker mentioning when it is a prefix we do not know :D
16:07:52  <LordAro> is how i see it, anyway
16:08:30  <LordAro> does the wiki page not say?
16:09:02  <TrueBrain> ugh, search engines STILL aren't updated .. this is so much more annoying than I would ever have expected
16:09:12  <TrueBrain>
16:10:03  <michi_cc> "Changing behaviour from user-point-of-view." fit for me.
16:10:17  <TrueBrain> it is a clear definition of what OpenTTD means with "Change", yes :)
16:11:20  <michi_cc> The actual word is of course a bikeshed-colour thing, but the meaning is useful for changelogs.
16:11:46  <TrueBrain> I am all good what-ever we pick .. I just didn't know what was meant with it :)
16:12:45  <michi_cc> For this specific PR, one could also argue for Fix, but unfavourably behaviour is not necessarily a bug in itself.
16:13:03  <TrueBrain> sometimes a question is just a question :) No need to overthink this :D
16:13:28  <TrueBrain> Google still hasn't indexed 3000 pages reported via the sitemap
16:13:30  <TrueBrain> holy crap
16:13:56  <TrueBrain> and it still has 10,000 pages with a 404, and no way for me to purge them without doing that one by one
16:14:13  <LordAro> :(
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16:20:20  <TrueBrain> I cannot find the "reindex everything" link at all anymore :D
16:20:27  <TrueBrain> it used to say it was temporary disabled :P
16:20:40  <TrueBrain> what I love about google .. I search ""
16:20:41  <TrueBrain> find a broken link
16:20:47  <TrueBrain> open it up in the search console
16:20:52  <TrueBrain> and it tells me: this URL is not on Google
16:20:59  <TrueBrain> well ...... how do you think I got it then?!
16:21:13  <TrueBrain> owh, LOLZ! http vs https
16:21:15  <TrueBrain> omg google, really?
16:21:17  <TrueBrain> like .. REALLY?!
16:33:02  <andythenorth> google is currently lolz
16:34:54  <TrueBrain> bing is not much better .. they also still have a lot of old links indexed
16:35:29  <TrueBrain> if I knew then what I know now, I would have done this completely different :)
16:36:16  <TrueBrain> it also keeps insisting there are sitemaps on URLs that are rather invalid
16:36:20  <TrueBrain> (bing)
16:37:49  <TrueBrain> all the ?title= URLs are annoying, as they are valid with TrueWiki (as he doesn't do querystrings)
16:38:51  <TrueBrain> bing is also funny ... URL: indexed, I click on it, last crawled, 2 days ago .. I click "Live test": THIS URL IS NOT VALID AND CANNOT BE INDEXED .. no shit .. so ... why didn't you de-index it when you crawled it 2 days ago?!
16:43:09  <TrueBrain> tldr: fuck search engines
16:48:17  <andythenorth> Lucene!
16:48:20  * andythenorth says words
16:56:29  <Heiki> talking of words, are the STR_CARGO_SINGULAR_* strings actually used anywhere in the game?
17:00:23  <FLHerne> Heiki: spec says "Currently used for subsidies only (First Passenger service to..). "
17:01:25  <Heiki> FLHerne: ahhh, true
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17:14:05  <Samu> michi_cc, #8325 can be closed
17:14:38  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc closed issue #8325: Strong temporal autocorrelation in Max. Reliability ratings across vehicles
17:17:39  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick closed pull request #8468: Fix #8316: Make sort industries by production with a cargo filter possible
17:21:13  <Samu> oops, deleted wrong one
17:21:28  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick reopened pull request #8468: Fix #8316: Make sort industries by production with a cargo filter possible
17:21:34  <Samu> my mistake
17:33:46  <Heiki> next question: what should I do if I wanted to add new strings for cases (as in
17:34:38  <Heiki> (don’t worry, not all strings need all of these,
17:37:24  <Heiki> (although 4305 strings in 15 cases would mean just 64575 strings)
17:37:47  <Eddi|zuHause> there should be a list of cases at the beginning of the lang file. like for example in hungarian.txt
17:38:12  <Eddi|zuHause> a line starting with "##case"
17:41:38  <Eddi|zuHause> how you define those in the web interface, no clue
17:44:19  <Heiki> finnish.txt doesn’t have any
17:44:53  <LordAro> probably can't do it via eints
17:45:23  <Heiki> yes, that’s what I gathered too
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17:58:27  <Heiki> also, is there an easy way to have the first letter of a string capitalised, or would that need its own “case” as well?
17:58:52  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like a case
17:59:56  * Heiki makes 2021 the Year of the Greatest Finnish OpenTTD Translation ever
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18:07:18  <Samu> anyone seen
18:08:41  <LordAro> Heiki: MFGA
18:10:02  <Heiki> yes (but only in this context)
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18:16:16  <Heiki> (come to think of it, other contexts as well, as long as keeping away from nationalism)
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18:21:48  <LordAro> Heiki: nuance? pah, get that shit out of here
18:27:11  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
18:27:12  <DorpsGek>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:28:15  <Heiki> yes, put it on a level crossing and have a 1000 ton train run over it
18:35:02  <Eddi|zuHause> that's not a particularly heavy train
18:35:30  <andythenorth> do we want a more nuanced train?
18:36:33  <Heiki> and yes, only yesterday I noticed that all those STR_ENGINE_PREVIEW_ strings are used in nominative as well as accusative cases in the Finnish translation, which is why all translators have changed them back and forth probably hundreds of times
18:38:52  <Eddi|zuHause> a european train can have up to 25t per axle, and up to 250 axles, which makes 6250t
18:39:14  <Eddi|zuHause> a bit less if you assume that the engine(s) have slightly less weight
18:40:24  <Heiki> Eddi|zuHause: ah, sorry, played too much OpenTTD with Iron Horse and FIRS 4 around 1890 today
18:42:10  <Heiki> (which means 400 t trains using 7 tile stations)
18:43:40  <Eddi|zuHause> if you assume 3 engines with 6 axles each, weighing 21t per axle, you get 6178t
18:46:13  <Eddi|zuHause> if you also assume that the number of axles will be divisible by 6, you get 6078t
18:48:14  <andythenorth> does your railtype permit 25t?
18:48:32  <Eddi|zuHause> on a few select routes
18:50:00  <Eddi|zuHause> usually ones that transport iron ore
18:50:56  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #8471: Fix #8462: Don't check whether to grow a town road on water
18:51:39  <andythenorth> shall we do a Jan 1 OpenTTD release?
18:53:55  <Eddi|zuHause> if you want to further delay #7000
18:55:49  <Heiki> Limited Edition Surprise Release, only available Jan 1
18:56:14  <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like 0.4.0 :p
18:59:45  <andythenorth> Jan 1 2021?
19:04:41  <Heiki> re-release 0.4.0 on Jan 1 2021?
19:09:11  <andythenorth> GG
19:29:01  <Timberwolf> I was going to suggest releasing it on vinyl, but taking the bitrate of BBC Micro tapes as a benchmark you'd need 30 discs for a standard Win10 64-bit installer distribution.
19:30:27  <Timberwolf> Could probably get a small newgrf on a cassette!
19:43:46  <andythenorth> :)
19:46:06  <Timberwolf> Two-stage FIRS - one ~4MB file with all the sprites and most of the logic, then a cassette labelled "Side A: Steeltown. Side B: Better Living Through Chemistry."
19:46:24  <Timberwolf> Newgrf to cassette port interface for 1.11
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19:57:32  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm pretty sure that's an OS task
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21:03:33  <supermop_Home> Eddi|zuHause implement an OS in Openttd specifically to read nwgrfs from tape
21:04:17  <supermop_Home> i assume Openttd will also be shipping tape drives
21:04:48  <supermop_Home> andythenorth you want like a sprite sheet or like pngs per sprite or what?
21:05:20  <supermop_Home> i want to fix pixels more but handing over at least an incremental first pass is probably a good idea
21:24:49  <andythenorth> spritesheet 👍
21:24:59  <Samu> i found another situation where towns don't use DC_NO_WATER in the clear command, but that one is excused, it's for the statue placement, it only looks for clear and tree tile types
21:25:23  <Samu> they have no water
21:58:27  <supermop_Home> did you have a preferred floorplate of the 4?
22:06:15  <andythenorth> 1/4 fountains
22:06:18  <andythenorth> also a big log
22:06:21  <andythenorth> logo *
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22:44:14  <supermop_Home> haha there are already logs
22:46:46  <andythenorth> log log log log
22:46:50  <andythenorth> it's big it's heavy it's wood
22:47:02  <andythenorth> ship sprites are improved by not trying to use both company colours
22:47:06  <andythenorth> less cartoon
22:49:01  *** nik has joined #openttd
22:49:23  <nik> happy new year, im streaming some openttd.
22:51:11  * Timberwolf is updating a column entitled "horse_type"
22:54:45  *** Wormnest has quit IRC
22:59:16  <mikegrb> It looks like my IRC logs are going to be going away. My USA based provider is of the opinion that IRC logs violate the GDPR.
23:04:54  <glx> but it's not private data
23:04:55  <Timberwolf> Horse upgrade!
23:05:14  <andythenorth> happy GDPR new year!
23:05:38  <andythenorth> Timberwolf they're quite lolz to watch :)
23:05:45  <andythenorth> very cheery
23:06:34  <Timberwolf> I put so much effort into finding one of those old Victorian textbook pages with the horse walk cycle on it.
23:07:37  <andythenorth> walk cycles :)
23:07:41  <andythenorth> old times
23:09:13  *** jottyfan has quit IRC
23:12:11  * Timberwolf ponders adding a horse in a Zorb as a pointless Easter egg.
23:12:19  <supermop_Home> not enough stone colors
23:12:49  <Timberwolf> Capacity: 1 item of livestock.
23:12:53  <supermop_Home> now i see why these ogfx office buildings have a bunch of pinks and greens mixed in the noise
23:13:54  <supermop_Home> Timberwolf regearing cargo to change horse to a donkey
23:15:26  <andythenorth> supermop_Home original base set mixes green + pink with stone also
23:15:33  <andythenorth> same reason
23:16:41  <supermop_Home> recoloring brick to stone going to be a pain
23:17:16  <Wolf01> Happy new year
23:17:47  <supermop_Home> brick you can use the whole gamut but stone needs stick only to the top 2/3rds then manually add other color noise
23:17:54  <Timberwolf> GoRender seems to pop some grey in there every so often, which might be a viable alternative.
23:18:02  <supermop_Home> you too Wolf01
23:18:09  <andythenorth> Wolf01 you in 2021 already?
23:19:33  <supermop_Home> like if its the 4th brick color, make it the 3rd tan, but maybe manually the 4th olive or the 6th grey?
23:20:03  <supermop_Home> magic wand + random clicking with pencil tool i guess
23:20:57  <Wolf01> <andythenorth> Wolf01 you in 2021 already? <- seem so
23:21:13  <Wolf01> It's fine for now
23:21:24  <Wolf01> Nothing changed from 2020
23:22:59  <andythenorth> congrats
23:23:07  <andythenorth> GG 2020 WP
23:25:41  * Heiki has already seen almost 1½ hours of 2020, needs more vodka
23:26:08  <Heiki> oops, 2021 even
23:28:17  <supermop_Home> Heiki nope, you have to redo 2020
23:28:26  <LordAro> too late
23:29:15  <andythenorth> cmd-z
23:29:29  <andythenorth> reload-savegame, try again
23:32:38  <Heiki> easier to go back to the one I saved in 1700
23:33:17  <LordAro> Heiki is vampire confirmed
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23:37:10  *** nik is now known as nnyby
23:44:43  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #8472: Cleanup 2db88953e7: Remove VL_FIRST_SORT as it's useless
23:46:25  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8472: Cleanup 2db88953e7: Remove VL_FIRST_SORT as it's useless
23:47:01  <glx> I found no saving of the flags
23:47:14  <glx> but it's hard to search on "flags"
23:47:20  <LordAro> mm :)
23:47:40  <glx> it's basically GUI only
23:47:44  <glx> I think
23:49:03  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #8458: Fixes for issues with rotated (non-rectangular) airports
23:57:28  <supermop_Home> andythenorth stone base floor?

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