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00:07:18 <supermop_Home> Timberwolf did foster work on locomotion? its nearly all rendered then clamped sprites? 00:09:20 <Timberwolf> Yes, it was all of Chris Sawyer's long-term collaborators. 00:09:56 <Timberwolf> The rendering-and-clamping approach came from Roller Coaster Tycoon. 00:10:11 <supermop_Home> somehow it works a little better there 00:10:25 <Timberwolf> I think RCT has a better palette, and also more hand-drawn art. 00:10:44 <Timberwolf> The vehicles, rides and some buildings are rendered, a lot of the rest is still pixel art. 00:10:45 <supermop_Home> which is odd as nearly everything in rct has color masking 00:11:00 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 00:13:35 <supermop_Home> i need to figure out which brick colors can be recolored to which stone colors 00:35:35 *** nielsm has quit IRC 01:01:17 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 01:01:31 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 01:53:16 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 01:57:18 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 02:17:59 *** jellyknight has joined #openttd 02:25:22 *** gelignite has quit IRC 02:26:40 *** Progman has quit IRC 03:08:23 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 03:18:03 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 03:24:17 *** debdog has joined #openttd 03:25:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 03:27:04 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 03:27:43 *** D-HUND has quit IRC 03:30:50 *** glx has quit IRC 03:31:23 *** jellyknight has quit IRC 03:39:15 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 05:08:35 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 08:18:13 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:45:07 <andythenorth> yo 09:06:35 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 09:14:31 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 09:18:08 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 09:48:12 <Timberwolf> I need a test FIRS where every industry produces all of its possible outputs at a constant rate. 09:49:13 <Eddi|zuHause> in a normal grf, that would be an easy change, but in FIRS' concoction of layered template engines... dunno 09:50:05 <Timberwolf> Concoctions of layered template engines are the way forward. 09:50:08 <Eddi|zuHause> would be easier to make a test game where you set up the industries in close proximity and build a simple supply chain 09:50:34 <Timberwolf> Heh. I have one of those, then I realised I need to change GRF ID. :) 09:51:08 <Timberwolf> "Simple" is not such a thing when you're testing the end outputs of Steeltown. 09:51:15 <Eddi|zuHause> so, delete all the industries, change GRF, rebuild the industries? 09:57:28 <andythenorth> Timberwolf fork? 09:57:42 <andythenorth> what are you testing for exactly? :) 09:58:21 <andythenorth> pff "in a normal grf, that would be an easy change, but in FIRS' concoction of layered template engines... dunno" 09:58:28 <andythenorth> shall we just think that one through for a moment :P 09:59:37 <Timberwolf> andythenorth: Mostly seeing how variable load states and randomised cargo colours look in game. 09:59:38 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it could be one of two things: 1) it's a one-line change buried deep in some configuration file, or 2) you're getting horribly lost trying to find that file/line, which may or may not exist 09:59:45 * andythenorth wonders about sending Eddi|zuHause the raw nml to try that :) 10:00:04 <andythenorth> Timberwolf are they all implemented as cargo layers? 10:00:19 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i don't think the generated nml counts as "normal GRF" 10:00:38 <Timberwolf> andythenorth: Yeah, sprite stacks for all the cargo. 10:00:53 <andythenorth> Timberwolf I feel your pain, this is why I generate all the cargos into the vehicle :P 10:01:03 <andythenorth> setting up games to test cargos...nah 10:01:41 <andythenorth> can you do it in the compile? 10:01:56 <andythenorth> i.e. do a test of compositing vehicle + sprite, save to disk? 10:02:53 <andythenorth> it's an easy job with e.g. PIL or ImageMagick 10:02:58 <Timberwolf> Probably, it's mainly the in-game test I'm after as a broadband check of "is the right cargo type assigned?" "is the palette remapping good?" "does it work across multiple company colours" etc. 10:03:36 <andythenorth> well I can help you fork FIRS if you need 10:03:46 <andythenorth> 'debug mode' 10:03:54 <andythenorth> 'grf developer mode' 10:04:07 <Timberwolf> Heh. 10:04:09 <andythenorth> I put some of the palette remapping into my compile too 10:04:22 <andythenorth> it's just so much easier to eyeball a docs image 10:05:06 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause I concede, there is nothing normal about the generated nml :) 10:05:15 <andythenorth> I could decompile to to nfo maybe? 10:05:18 <andythenorth> that's quite normal 10:06:16 <Eddi|zuHause> it'll still be extremely gargantuan, on account of being the output of a template engine 10:06:17 <andythenorth> Timberwolf I'm going to see what putting '1600' into this line does https://github.com/andythenorth/firs/blob/master/src/templates/produce_secondary.pynml#L11 10:06:53 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause I'm not going to persuade you to patch this manually one industry at a time, am I? :( 10:07:30 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that's like comparing a disassembly of the windows kernel to the command.com of an early DOS version 10:14:42 <andythenorth> Timberwolf this does it for most secondary https://gist.github.com/andythenorth/4bf1f713006699398582563ce7572a9f 10:14:52 <andythenorth> or I can dm you the grf 10:15:23 <Timberwolf> Oh cool. Let me have a go at building it, would be useful to get the build chain going. 10:15:58 <andythenorth> https://grf.farm/firs/4.0.0-beta-3/html/code_reference.html 10:16:29 <andythenorth> it's mostly just pip install [stuff] 10:17:00 <Timberwolf> Cool. (This will be a "Timberwolf discovers how broken the Python environment on this particular computer is" adventure then) 10:17:51 <andythenorth> virtualenv ftw 10:18:37 <andythenorth> I am tempting fate here, but python is entirely under control 10:19:03 <andythenorth> install official binaries (and pypy) for each needed version, virtualenv everything everywhere, never touch the OS python, done 10:20:01 <Timberwolf> Yeah, the Python devs I've worked with recommend the same. 10:22:46 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 10:24:57 <andythenorth> maybe I don't abandon this idea https://grf.farm/firs/better-living-through-chemistry-test/html/economies.html#better_living_through_chemistry 10:25:16 <andythenorth> might work really well with regions 10:25:25 <andythenorth> then it can have a gas grid 10:25:42 <andythenorth> or NRT pipes :P 10:26:19 <Timberwolf> Cool, I have a firs.grf! 10:26:24 <Timberwolf> Now to make that change. 10:27:05 <Timberwolf> The only slight stumble I had was not realising that while pillow isn't listed as a dependency, it *is* a dependency of nml so will get installed along with that. 10:28:21 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 10:35:36 *** Samu has joined #openttd 10:43:59 <Timberwolf> Success! https://i.imgur.com/LIUZ9z8.png 10:45:34 <andythenorth> happy days :) 10:45:43 <andythenorth> TimberFIRS 10:45:48 <andythenorth> voxel edition 10:46:15 <Timberwolf> Heh. I gave it a new ID so I could keep it around for testing stuff. 10:46:50 <andythenorth> voxel industry replacement or go hom? 10:46:52 <andythenorth> home * 10:47:05 <andythenorth> maybe not now? 10:48:11 <Timberwolf> Probably more buildings for stations, followed by towns. 10:55:20 *** Progman has joined #openttd 10:57:31 <andythenorth> voxel base set :P 10:57:43 <andythenorth> bad andythenorth 12:02:49 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 12:02:59 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 12:08:17 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 12:23:12 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 12:54:54 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 12:58:48 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 13:05:19 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 13:20:55 <andythenorth> css is so....meh 13:28:23 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 13:28:26 <Eddi|zuHause> strange, satisfactory doesn't want to start today. it was working yesterday 13:28:43 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 13:28:57 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 13:31:28 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 13:31:39 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 13:38:02 <andythenorth> very unfinished tech tree page for ships https://grf.farm/unsinkable-sam/dev/html/tech_tree_table_blue.html 13:38:11 <andythenorth> copied from Iron Horse, so quite train-reference 13:38:42 <andythenorth> tech tree concept is a bit weird for ships, there's very little to compare 13:40:07 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 13:40:20 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 13:41:20 <Eddi|zuHause> how is it a "tech tree" when all ships are introduced at the same time? 13:44:12 <Timberwolf> tech stump. 13:46:21 <andythenorth> tech stump D 13:46:31 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause yes 13:46:58 <andythenorth> the tree view is quite a useful design tool, there are currently 50% of planned ships missing 13:47:07 <andythenorth> but I'm not sure they're even a a good idea yet 13:48:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i fail to see the motivation between picking a barge, or a side loader, or a specialist 13:49:07 <andythenorth> same 13:49:18 <andythenorth> but I tried only having 'freighters' and it's very visually bland 13:49:35 <andythenorth> ships are weird 13:50:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i would say single-body ships would be more for high seas, and barges more for rivers/canals 13:50:20 <andythenorth> and running sea-going ships on canals or lakes is weird, so both types are needed 13:50:29 <andythenorth> I did try having just ships 13:50:33 <Eddi|zuHause> but i always feel that that distinction isn't implemented very well in the game 13:50:36 <andythenorth> suppose I could just have barges? 13:50:47 <andythenorth> barges...cross the north sea etc 13:51:04 * andythenorth tries it 13:52:03 <Eddi|zuHause> and the old problem of having to provide different sizes, which are both too many options, and not the right option at the same time 13:52:03 <andythenorth> could work 13:52:13 <andythenorth> yeah the sizes 13:52:19 <andythenorth> I did try 'refit to different size' 13:52:23 <andythenorth> via subtypes 13:52:39 <andythenorth> it's technically a solution, but it's really not nice to actually use 13:52:49 <andythenorth> 'ships are weird' 13:53:08 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that's a good idea to reduce the buy menu length, but it's to hidden and too side-effect-y for the average player 13:53:36 <Eddi|zuHause> we need the "combine multiple vehicles into a single buy menu entry" thing 13:55:53 <andythenorth> or % full load 13:56:10 <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/discussions 13:56:13 <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/discussions/8446 13:56:22 <andythenorth> "variants" 13:59:07 <andythenorth> hmm it is better with just barges 14:00:10 <andythenorth> oh I remember, barges look silly serving oil rigs 14:00:16 <andythenorth> which starts to unpick the 'just barges' route 14:02:25 <andythenorth> also on 2x UI zoom, 128px ships are huge 14:02:42 <andythenorth> and the buy menu window shows only 7 at once 14:02:48 <andythenorth> and most of the name is clipped 14:05:36 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 14:08:00 <Eddi|zuHause> you can scale down the buy menu sprites by x0.5 14:08:33 <andythenorth> https://grf.farm/images/sam-buy-menu-zoom.png 14:08:48 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause is that scaling a built-in? 14:08:54 <Eddi|zuHause> no 14:08:55 <andythenorth> I can do it in PIL otherwise 14:09:14 <Eddi|zuHause> you just provide different sprites in the GRF 14:09:31 <andythenorth> I'll need to detect the UI zoom, that's a built-in though? 14:09:39 <Eddi|zuHause> checking extra_callback_info1, i think 14:09:44 <andythenorth> thx 14:10:51 <Eddi|zuHause> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action2/Vehicles#Drawing_different_sprites_on_map_in_various_GUIs 14:12:38 <michi_cc> andythenorth: I don't think UI zoom is exposed to newgrfs (desync and all), but you should be able to supply a sprite with multiple zooms. 14:13:01 <Eddi|zuHause> so you either check extra_callback_info1 against 0x20 for affecting just the purchase list, or you mask "extra_callback_info1 && 0x20" first to apply to all windows which display an unpurchased vehicle 14:13:04 <andythenorth> I'll try it later 14:13:14 <andythenorth> it's 'weird' having half-size ships in buy menu 14:13:19 <andythenorth> but it's unusable currently 14:13:39 <Eddi|zuHause> er, & not && 14:13:58 <Eddi|zuHause> well, either is fine in this context, probably. just the result is different :) 14:14:36 <Eddi|zuHause> with & you get the result 0 or 0x20, and with && you get the result 0 or 1 14:17:04 <andythenorth> not sure how I'll downsample the sprites without losing fidelity 14:17:04 <andythenorth> hmm 14:18:49 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 14:22:00 <andythenorth> yeah reducing the sprite to 50% of original is quite unworkable 14:22:19 <andythenorth> hmm 14:31:55 <andythenorth> think I'm stuck with giant sprites and clipped ship names :) 14:32:00 <andythenorth> or I redesign the set 14:47:38 <andythenorth> is this better? https://grf.farm/images/sam-buy-menu-fixed.png 14:47:56 <andythenorth> compared to https://grf.farm/images/sam-buy-menu-zoom.png 14:48:42 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: can you override the x2 zoom sprites with the same dimensions as x1 zoom sprites? 14:49:02 <Eddi|zuHause> (not saying this is a good idea) 14:49:23 <andythenorth> not sure, the x2 is a mystery 14:49:47 <Eddi|zuHause> if you're going to cut off sprites, at least right-align them first 14:50:25 <andythenorth> it will be odd for ships that have house at front also 14:50:26 <Eddi|zuHause> (although that might lose you visual clues on how large a ship will be) 14:50:38 <andythenorth> maybe I have to clip left / right depending on house 14:50:40 <andythenorth> or middle 14:51:14 <andythenorth> I think I file this under 'another day' 14:53:48 <andythenorth> I could remove the 128px ships 14:53:53 <andythenorth> and maybe the 112px ones 15:07:16 <Samu> Stack Overflow 15:08:03 <Samu> on https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/8295 15:08:54 <Samu> how to increase the stack? 15:08:58 <Samu> or something 15:10:30 *** Flygon has quit IRC 15:10:40 <Samu> The maximum number of stack frames supported by Visual Studio has been exceeded. 15:10:48 <LordAro> increasing the stack is technically doable, but is not a good solution 15:12:59 <Samu> the other solution may be limiting the number of wagons in a chain of wagons 15:13:01 <andythenorth> this one goes to 11 15:14:02 <Samu> this chain has 27,127 wagons 15:14:12 <LordAro> Samu: or deleting wagons in a non-recursive fashion 15:14:23 <LordAro> (such that it doesn't increase the stack size) 15:14:44 <Samu> it's something about scalar destructor 15:14:56 <Samu> external code is involved 15:15:52 <LordAro> scalar destructor? that's not a term i'm familiar with 15:16:55 <Samu> well, let me get the right name, brb 15:18:00 <Samu> Train::'scalar deleting destructor' - Source information is not available 15:19:06 <LordAro> hmm 15:20:28 <Samu> but something seems recursive here 15:21:10 <Samu> ~Train() calls ~Vehicle() which calls ~Train() which calls ~Vehicle(), etc... 15:21:19 <Eddi|zuHause> "scalar" is typically used in vector-contexts to denote a non-vectorized number 15:22:06 <Eddi|zuHause> how that would relate to "destructor" i don't know 15:22:24 <Samu> keeps doing that until all of 27k wagons are deleted 15:22:35 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it's a destructor of a type called "scalar" 15:23:15 <Samu> but it stacks overflows at some point 15:25:27 <LordAro> i'll see if i can reproduce on linux and get a proper stack trace :) 15:28:04 <Eddi|zuHause> might want to artificially reduce stack size to trigger it :) 15:29:02 <LordAro> iirc linux's default stack size is smaller than windows anyway 15:29:39 <Eddi|zuHause> but the person said he could recover it on linux 15:30:00 <Eddi|zuHause> and that's probably distribution specific 15:31:54 <LordAro> yes you're right 15:32:02 <LordAro> it hangs for a while, but ultimately does continue 15:32:55 <Eddi|zuHause> and the stack size itself might not be the whole story, the calling convention might influence how much stack is consumed per recursion level 15:34:00 <LordAro> aye 15:42:56 <andythenorth> if only we had a PR for this :P https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1239844#p1239844 15:43:42 <Eddi|zuHause> if only 15:44:10 <LordAro> i can't see any recursion happening 15:44:39 <LordAro> #2 0x0000555555fcb1c9 in RestoreTrainBackup(TrainList&) (list=std::vector of length 27127, capacity 32768 = {...}) at /home/lordaro/dev/openttd/src/train_cmd.cpp:836 15:44:43 <LordAro> just trying to do this a lot 15:46:09 <TrueBrain> why is there no upper-limit on the amount of wagons a train can have, one might wonder :D 15:46:14 <Eddi|zuHause> then it's probably std-library implementation dependent 15:46:20 <LordAro> not entirely sure why building up a vector of a few thousand pointers takes a particularly long time 15:46:33 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i think there is a limit for trains, but this is a free-wagon-chain 15:46:52 <TrueBrain> why is there no upper-limit on "free-wagon-chain" :D 15:46:59 <TrueBrain> the question doesn't really change ;) :P 15:47:07 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: so build 100 trains with 100 wagons each, sell all the engines, get a 100k free wagon chain 15:47:22 <TrueBrain> a run-away-AI 15:47:25 <TrueBrain> SkyNet all over again 15:48:02 <Eddi|zuHause> well, we probably have a limit to 64k wagons 15:48:51 <LordAro> ah, SetNext is not the cheap function its name would imply 15:49:35 <LordAro> that is... weird 15:50:12 <LordAro> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/vehicle.cpp#L2660 15:51:28 <Eddi|zuHause> assert(this != next); <-- shouldn't that be "this->next"? 15:51:40 <Eddi|zuHause> ah no 15:51:43 <Eddi|zuHause> that's the parameter 15:51:55 <LordAro> cycle protection :D 15:52:01 <andythenorth> nielsm think you might revisit this ever? :) https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7924 15:52:15 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i was reading too quickly 15:53:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure i get the point of that loop 15:54:46 <LordAro> i'm not sure it's correct 15:54:55 <LordAro> first is supposed to be the head of the train/vehicle 15:55:15 <LordAro> but it's setting it to the (old) next? 15:55:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, so the function should be more like "RemoveFront" 15:56:24 <Eddi|zuHause> "this->next->previous->next"... is not confusing at all :p 15:56:49 <LordAro> quite common when working with linked lists :p 15:57:56 * LordAro sees what happens if he removes those loops 15:58:11 <TrueBrain> YOLO! :P 15:59:31 <Eddi|zuHause> is that used anywhere else than ~Vehicle()? 15:59:48 <LordAro> openttd: /home/lordaro/dev/openttd/src/train_cmd.cpp:123: void Train::ConsistChanged(ConsistChangeFlags): Assertion `u->First() == this' failed. 15:59:51 <LordAro> immediately :D 15:59:59 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: lots of places, just not in that file 16:00:07 <LordAro> Vehicle is the base class for a lot of things 16:00:38 <Eddi|zuHause> like i said, the function is probably misnamed 16:01:54 <LordAro> poorly named, certainly 16:02:42 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/aba867d78dd52154bb7874a6998a3002dab57684 in case you want to assign blame 16:02:54 <TrueBrain> it once did exactly what it said ;) 16:04:31 <LordAro> heh 16:04:48 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that looks a bit weird 16:05:43 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 16:06:38 <Eddi|zuHause> so that patch added v->First() as some kind of cache 16:06:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #8470: Change #8325: Make engine reliability independent of introduction date https://git.io/JLQU9 16:07:15 <TrueBrain> I still do not understand "Change:" as commit message prefix .. isn't everything a change? :D 16:07:27 <LordAro> "user visible change" 16:07:40 <LordAro> "but not actually anything particularly new" 16:07:51 <TrueBrain> is it written down anywhere what is meant with the prefixes? I only know of the commit checker mentioning when it is a prefix we do not know :D 16:07:52 <LordAro> is how i see it, anyway 16:08:30 <LordAro> does the wiki page not say? 16:09:02 <TrueBrain> ugh, search engines STILL aren't updated .. this is so much more annoying than I would ever have expected 16:09:12 <TrueBrain> https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Development/Coding%20style#commit-message 16:10:03 <michi_cc> "Changing behaviour from user-point-of-view." fit for me. 16:10:17 <TrueBrain> it is a clear definition of what OpenTTD means with "Change", yes :) 16:11:20 <michi_cc> The actual word is of course a bikeshed-colour thing, but the meaning is useful for changelogs. 16:11:46 <TrueBrain> I am all good what-ever we pick .. I just didn't know what was meant with it :) 16:12:45 <michi_cc> For this specific PR, one could also argue for Fix, but unfavourably behaviour is not necessarily a bug in itself. 16:13:03 <TrueBrain> sometimes a question is just a question :) No need to overthink this :D 16:13:28 <TrueBrain> Google still hasn't indexed 3000 pages reported via the sitemap 16:13:30 <TrueBrain> holy crap 16:13:56 <TrueBrain> and it still has 10,000 pages with a 404, and no way for me to purge them without doing that one by one 16:14:13 <LordAro> :( 16:16:16 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 16:20:20 <TrueBrain> I cannot find the "reindex everything" link at all anymore :D 16:20:27 <TrueBrain> it used to say it was temporary disabled :P 16:20:40 <TrueBrain> what I love about google .. I search "site:wiki.openttd.org" 16:20:41 <TrueBrain> find a broken link 16:20:47 <TrueBrain> open it up in the search console 16:20:52 <TrueBrain> and it tells me: this URL is not on Google 16:20:59 <TrueBrain> well ...... how do you think I got it then?! 16:21:13 <TrueBrain> owh, LOLZ! http vs https 16:21:15 <TrueBrain> omg google, really? 16:21:17 <TrueBrain> like .. REALLY?! 16:33:02 <andythenorth> google is currently lolz 16:34:54 <TrueBrain> bing is not much better .. they also still have a lot of old links indexed 16:35:29 <TrueBrain> if I knew then what I know now, I would have done this completely different :) 16:36:16 <TrueBrain> it also keeps insisting there are sitemaps on URLs that are rather invalid 16:36:20 <TrueBrain> (bing) 16:37:49 <TrueBrain> all the ?title= URLs are annoying, as they are valid with TrueWiki (as he doesn't do querystrings) 16:38:51 <TrueBrain> bing is also funny ... URL: indexed, I click on it, last crawled, 2 days ago .. I click "Live test": THIS URL IS NOT VALID AND CANNOT BE INDEXED .. no shit .. so ... why didn't you de-index it when you crawled it 2 days ago?! 16:43:09 <TrueBrain> tldr: fuck search engines 16:48:17 <andythenorth> Lucene! 16:48:20 * andythenorth says words 16:56:29 <Heiki> talking of words, are the STR_CARGO_SINGULAR_* strings actually used anywhere in the game? 17:00:23 <FLHerne> Heiki: spec says "Currently used for subsidies only (First Passenger service to..). " 17:01:25 <Heiki> FLHerne: ahhh, true 17:03:31 *** heffer_ has joined #openttd 17:10:39 *** heffer has quit IRC 17:14:05 <Samu> michi_cc, #8325 can be closed 17:14:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc closed issue #8325: Strong temporal autocorrelation in Max. Reliability ratings across vehicles https://git.io/JUddc 17:17:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick closed pull request #8468: Fix #8316: Make sort industries by production with a cargo filter possible https://git.io/JLHah 17:21:13 <Samu> oops, deleted wrong one 17:21:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick reopened pull request #8468: Fix #8316: Make sort industries by production with a cargo filter possible https://git.io/JLHah 17:21:34 <Samu> my mistake 17:33:46 <Heiki> next question: what should I do if I wanted to add new strings for cases (as in http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/eints/nightlies/LATEST/docs/strings.html#case)? 17:34:38 <Heiki> (don’t worry, not all strings need all of these, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_noun_cases#List_of_Finnish_cases) 17:37:24 <Heiki> (although 4305 strings in 15 cases would mean just 64575 strings) 17:37:47 <Eddi|zuHause> there should be a list of cases at the beginning of the lang file. like for example in hungarian.txt 17:38:12 <Eddi|zuHause> a line starting with "##case" 17:41:38 <Eddi|zuHause> how you define those in the web interface, no clue 17:44:19 <Heiki> finnish.txt doesn’t have any 17:44:53 <LordAro> probably can't do it via eints 17:45:23 <Heiki> yes, that’s what I gathered too 17:56:48 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 17:58:27 <Heiki> also, is there an easy way to have the first letter of a string capitalised, or would that need its own “case” as well? 17:58:52 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like a case 17:59:56 * Heiki makes 2021 the Year of the Greatest Finnish OpenTTD Translation ever 18:02:58 *** Con_TheGranny has joined #openttd 18:07:18 <Samu> anyone seen https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/8462 18:08:41 <LordAro> Heiki: MFGA 18:10:02 <Heiki> yes (but only in this context) 18:12:09 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 18:12:33 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 18:16:16 <Heiki> (come to think of it, other contexts as well, as long as keeping away from nationalism) 18:17:07 *** glx has joined #openttd 18:17:08 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 18:21:48 <LordAro> Heiki: nuance? pah, get that shit out of here 18:27:11 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JLQpU 18:27:12 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 18:28:15 <Heiki> yes, put it on a level crossing and have a 1000 ton train run over it 18:35:02 <Eddi|zuHause> that's not a particularly heavy train 18:35:30 <andythenorth> do we want a more nuanced train? 18:36:33 <Heiki> and yes, only yesterday I noticed that all those STR_ENGINE_PREVIEW_ strings are used in nominative as well as accusative cases in the Finnish translation, which is why all translators have changed them back and forth probably hundreds of times 18:38:52 <Eddi|zuHause> a european train can have up to 25t per axle, and up to 250 axles, which makes 6250t 18:39:14 <Eddi|zuHause> a bit less if you assume that the engine(s) have slightly less weight 18:40:24 <Heiki> Eddi|zuHause: ah, sorry, played too much OpenTTD with Iron Horse and FIRS 4 around 1890 today 18:42:10 <Heiki> (which means 400 t trains using 7 tile stations) 18:43:40 <Eddi|zuHause> if you assume 3 engines with 6 axles each, weighing 21t per axle, you get 6178t 18:46:13 <Eddi|zuHause> if you also assume that the number of axles will be divisible by 6, you get 6078t 18:48:14 <andythenorth> does your railtype permit 25t? 18:48:32 <Eddi|zuHause> on a few select routes 18:50:00 <Eddi|zuHause> usually ones that transport iron ore 18:50:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #8471: Fix #8462: Don't check whether to grow a town road on water https://git.io/JLQpH 18:51:39 <andythenorth> shall we do a Jan 1 OpenTTD release? 18:53:55 <Eddi|zuHause> if you want to further delay #7000 18:55:49 <Heiki> Limited Edition Surprise Release, only available Jan 1 18:56:14 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like 0.4.0 :p 18:59:45 <andythenorth> Jan 1 2021? 19:04:41 <Heiki> re-release 0.4.0 on Jan 1 2021? 19:09:11 <andythenorth> GG 19:29:01 <Timberwolf> I was going to suggest releasing it on vinyl, but taking the bitrate of BBC Micro tapes as a benchmark you'd need 30 discs for a standard Win10 64-bit installer distribution. 19:30:27 <Timberwolf> Could probably get a small newgrf on a cassette! 19:43:46 <andythenorth> :) 19:46:06 <Timberwolf> Two-stage FIRS - one ~4MB file with all the sprites and most of the logic, then a cassette labelled "Side A: Steeltown. Side B: Better Living Through Chemistry." 19:46:24 <Timberwolf> Newgrf to cassette port interface for 1.11 19:54:41 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 19:55:47 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 19:57:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm pretty sure that's an OS task 20:04:03 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 20:05:59 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 21:03:33 <supermop_Home> Eddi|zuHause implement an OS in Openttd specifically to read nwgrfs from tape 21:04:17 <supermop_Home> i assume Openttd will also be shipping tape drives 21:04:48 <supermop_Home> andythenorth you want like a sprite sheet or like pngs per sprite or what? 21:05:20 <supermop_Home> i want to fix pixels more but handing over at least an incremental first pass is probably a good idea 21:24:49 <andythenorth> spritesheet 👍 21:24:59 <Samu> i found another situation where towns don't use DC_NO_WATER in the clear command, but that one is excused, it's for the statue placement, it only looks for clear and tree tile types 21:25:23 <Samu> they have no water 21:58:27 <supermop_Home> did you have a preferred floorplate of the 4? 22:06:15 <andythenorth> 1/4 fountains 22:06:18 <andythenorth> also a big log 22:06:21 <andythenorth> logo * 22:13:40 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 22:44:14 <supermop_Home> haha there are already logs 22:46:46 <andythenorth> log log log log 22:46:50 <andythenorth> it's big it's heavy it's wood 22:47:02 <andythenorth> ship sprites are improved by not trying to use both company colours 22:47:06 <andythenorth> less cartoon 22:49:01 *** nik has joined #openttd 22:49:23 <nik> happy new year, im streaming some openttd. https://www.twitch.tv/acidfreak88 22:51:11 * Timberwolf is updating a column entitled "horse_type" 22:54:45 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 22:59:16 <mikegrb> It looks like my IRC logs are going to be going away. My USA based provider is of the opinion that IRC logs violate the GDPR. 23:04:54 <glx> but it's not private data 23:04:55 <Timberwolf> Horse upgrade! https://i.imgur.com/lsR21g9.gif 23:05:14 <andythenorth> happy GDPR new year! 23:05:38 <andythenorth> Timberwolf they're quite lolz to watch :) 23:05:45 <andythenorth> very cheery 23:06:34 <Timberwolf> I put so much effort into finding one of those old Victorian textbook pages with the horse walk cycle on it. 23:07:37 <andythenorth> walk cycles :) 23:07:41 <andythenorth> old times 23:09:13 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 23:12:11 * Timberwolf ponders adding a horse in a Zorb as a pointless Easter egg. 23:12:19 <supermop_Home> not enough stone colors 23:12:49 <Timberwolf> Capacity: 1 item of livestock. 23:12:53 <supermop_Home> now i see why these ogfx office buildings have a bunch of pinks and greens mixed in the noise 23:13:54 <supermop_Home> Timberwolf regearing cargo to change horse to a donkey 23:15:26 <andythenorth> supermop_Home original base set mixes green + pink with stone also 23:15:33 <andythenorth> same reason 23:16:41 <supermop_Home> recoloring brick to stone going to be a pain 23:17:16 <Wolf01> Happy new year 23:17:47 <supermop_Home> brick you can use the whole gamut but stone needs stick only to the top 2/3rds then manually add other color noise 23:17:54 <Timberwolf> GoRender seems to pop some grey in there every so often, which might be a viable alternative. 23:18:02 <supermop_Home> you too Wolf01 23:18:09 <andythenorth> Wolf01 you in 2021 already? 23:19:33 <supermop_Home> like if its the 4th brick color, make it the 3rd tan, but maybe manually the 4th olive or the 6th grey? 23:20:03 <supermop_Home> magic wand + random clicking with pencil tool i guess 23:20:57 <Wolf01> <andythenorth> Wolf01 you in 2021 already? <- seem so 23:21:13 <Wolf01> It's fine for now 23:21:24 <Wolf01> Nothing changed from 2020 23:22:59 <andythenorth> congrats 23:23:07 <andythenorth> GG 2020 WP 23:25:41 * Heiki has already seen almost 1½ hours of 2020, needs more vodka 23:26:08 <Heiki> oops, 2021 even 23:28:17 <supermop_Home> Heiki nope, you have to redo 2020 23:28:26 <LordAro> too late 23:29:15 <andythenorth> cmd-z 23:29:29 <andythenorth> reload-savegame, try again 23:32:38 <Heiki> easier to go back to the one I saved in 1700 23:33:17 <LordAro> Heiki is vampire confirmed 23:33:23 *** DasPoseidon has joined #openttd 23:37:10 *** nik is now known as nnyby 23:44:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #8472: Cleanup 2db88953e7: Remove VL_FIRST_SORT as it's useless https://git.io/JL7qz 23:46:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8472: Cleanup 2db88953e7: Remove VL_FIRST_SORT as it's useless https://git.io/JL7qX 23:47:01 <glx> I found no saving of the flags 23:47:14 <glx> but it's hard to search on "flags" 23:47:20 <LordAro> mm :) 23:47:40 <glx> it's basically GUI only 23:47:44 <glx> I think 23:49:03 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #8458: Fixes for issues with rotated (non-rectangular) airports https://git.io/JL7q5 23:57:28 <supermop_Home> andythenorth stone base floor? https://imgur.com/a/U1MqP6f