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00:00:36 <peter1138> Is vcpkg used for the dependencies for the official binaries? 00:13:21 <TrueBrain> Yup 00:13:34 <TrueBrain> That is what makes this so strange :( 00:14:38 <TrueBrain> Stackoverflow suggested it is thread related and that the binaries are mixed in mode 00:14:51 <TrueBrain> But I don't understand MSVC :p 00:18:45 <peter1138> Hmm, windows-static 00:29:55 <peter1138> Meh, if I tried x64-windows-static myself, then cmake doesn't find it. 00:31:38 <peter1138> Oh right. That shitty thing where I have to restart VS Code. 00:33:03 <peter1138> ! 00:33:11 <peter1138> Success. It no longer crashes. 00:34:10 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #8814: Assertion failed downloading content from BaNaNaS. https://git.io/JqTdZ 00:38:59 <peter1138> Well shit. It fixed libpng, but not zlib :( 00:41:22 <peter1138> Oh gods. No, zlib is fixed. 00:41:36 <peter1138> I still had a breakpoint left there from last time... so it still "stopped" haha 00:48:27 <spnda> I found somewhere online that it was caused by /MDd and fixed with /MTd or something similar. So something thread-related 00:51:35 <peter1138> No, they're both multithreadead. 00:51:37 <peter1138> -a 00:52:02 <peter1138> /MD Causes the application to use the multithread-specific and DLL-specific version of the run-time library. 00:52:08 <spnda> well its not my conclusion. Was just something I found on stackoverflow from someone having the issue with zlib 00:52:11 <peter1138> /MT Causes the application to use the multithread, static version of the run-time library. 00:53:40 <peter1138> /MDd links MSVCRT.lib, /MTd links LIBCMTD.lib. 00:53:48 <peter1138> Sounds a bit like different runtimes... 00:54:56 <peter1138> string(REPLACE "/MD" "/MT" ${MSVC_FLAGS} "${${MSVC_FLAGS}}") 00:54:57 <peter1138> Hmm 00:56:02 <peter1138> So if my x64-windows is shared, but we are forcing /MT(d), could that cause a mix up? 00:57:04 <peter1138> And so, switching to x64-windows-static works because then it's all /MTd in vcpkg land too. 00:57:57 <peter1138> I imagine that replace is not the correct method. 01:00:16 *** spnda has quit IRC 01:33:25 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 01:33:39 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 01:52:52 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 02:12:51 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 02:16:56 *** Slash has quit IRC 03:06:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] jschadewald commented on issue #8960: Game crashed while trying to get details on crashed plane https://git.io/JY5YT 03:06:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] jschadewald closed issue #8960: Game crashed while trying to get details on crashed plane https://git.io/JY5YT 03:58:34 *** Wuzzy has quit IRC 03:59:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] reldred commented on pull request #8480: Feature: Multitile depots https://git.io/JYbsk 04:05:49 <reldred> ahhhhh I love this patch 04:12:19 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 04:25:36 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 04:25:49 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 05:43:40 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:09:49 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:46:09 <andythenorth> yo 06:46:11 <andythenorth> is it done? 06:51:23 <reldred> Not quite, doesn't compile atm but I don't know if that's because it's inherited a bug from upstream that's already been fixed or something. 06:51:37 <reldred> But I am awfully fond of multi-tile depots. 06:52:09 <reldred> I do enjoy playing with it quite a bit 07:12:08 *** EER has joined #openttd 07:14:35 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 07:31:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #8716: Fix #8713: Change OTTD2FS and FS2OTTD to return string objects https://git.io/Jt9Ha 07:31:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh closed issue #8713: Win32 OTTD2FS/FS2OTTD used from multiple threads but use a static buffer https://git.io/Jt9XE 07:35:30 <peter1138> Gah, so cold again 07:36:55 <andythenorth> yup 07:37:04 * andythenorth had to wear more clothes 07:42:54 <reldred> It's autumn here now and it's still pretty warm 07:46:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #8952: Social rich presence plugins https://git.io/JYQJS 07:52:08 <peter1138> We're on a cold snap. Snow and hail in April... 07:55:01 <andythenorth> more coffee vicar? 07:56:59 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 08:05:26 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #8814: Assertion failed downloading content from BaNaNaS. https://git.io/JqTdZ 08:05:32 <peter1138> Yes, more coffe. 08:05:43 <peter1138> Also it's 5 minutes past work o'clock. 08:11:03 <nielsm> I'm looking at this NWidget code again and it makes me cry 08:11:41 <nielsm> why is the NWidgetLeaf class implementing 24 different classes 08:17:10 <peter1138> What are you up to? 08:17:58 <nielsm> that volume slider widget, make it a real widget 08:18:28 <nielsm> and the nested window system is just fighting against any kind of reasonable extensibility 08:20:05 <peter1138> Not really, it's just designed for what was needed at the time. It shouldn't be too hard to extend NWidgetCore? 08:21:49 <peter1138> I've got ideas about changing how dimensions are specified and stored. 08:22:49 <peter1138> So far I've got padding/pip spacing be rescaled when needed, but it's not 100% yet. 08:31:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #8814: Assertion failed downloading content from BaNaNaS. https://git.io/JqTdZ 08:31:59 *** glx has joined #openttd 08:31:59 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 08:40:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #8943: Volume controls in Game Options window https://git.io/JYye0 08:42:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #8943: Volume controls in Game Options window https://git.io/JYye0 08:42:31 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 08:46:02 <peter1138> ^ And precisely that kinda of change improves my WIP patch... 08:48:37 <nielsm> it'd be nice to have the nested widget part lists changed into some kind of actual nested structure, taking advantage of C++ initializer lists 08:50:09 <nielsm> so you could do e.g.: NWidgetHorizontal({ NWidgetCloseBox(COLOUR_GREY), NWidgetCaption(COLOUR_GREY, STR_WHATEVER_WINDOW_CAPTION) }) 08:50:21 <peter1138> Yes. 08:51:05 <nielsm> and the entire thing results in some kind of factory class instance 08:51:41 <peter1138> Some checks were not successful 08:51:42 *** michi_cc_ has joined #openttd 08:51:42 <peter1138> 8 successful and 4 cancelled checks 08:51:43 <peter1138> Hmm 08:51:56 <peter1138> I think that's just the CI though. 08:52:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7441: Feature: Per-group wagon removal flag https://git.io/JYbFR 08:53:03 *** crem3 has joined #openttd 08:53:34 *** michi_cc has quit IRC 08:54:05 <nielsm> looks like the tests on that PR somehow got stuck in the windows builds 08:54:09 <nielsm> killed after 6 hours 08:54:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7441: Feature: Per-group wagon removal flag https://git.io/JYbF1 08:54:39 *** aperezdc has quit IRC 08:54:39 *** jact[m] has quit IRC 08:54:39 *** johanna[m] has quit IRC 08:54:44 *** labs[m] has quit IRC 08:54:44 *** paulus[m] has quit IRC 08:54:44 *** igor[m]2 has quit IRC 08:54:46 <peter1138> Yeah. 08:54:49 *** karl[m]5 has quit IRC 08:54:49 *** gretel[m] has quit IRC 08:54:53 <peter1138> Bye bye matrix. 08:54:54 *** christoph[m]2 has quit IRC 08:54:54 *** yoltid[m] has quit IRC 08:54:54 *** crem2 has quit IRC 08:54:54 *** amal[m] has quit IRC 08:54:54 *** leward[m] has quit IRC 08:54:59 *** JamesRoss[m] has quit IRC 08:54:59 *** fiddeldibu[m] has quit IRC 08:55:09 *** shedidthedog[m] has quit IRC 08:55:09 *** ad5twoknebor[m] has quit IRC 08:55:14 *** patricia[m] has quit IRC 08:55:14 *** linda[m] has quit IRC 08:55:19 *** karoline[m] has quit IRC 08:55:29 *** joey[m] has quit IRC 08:55:29 *** cawal[m] has quit IRC 08:55:34 *** ciet[m] has quit IRC 08:55:34 *** dude[m]1 has quit IRC 08:55:39 *** Aileen[m] has quit IRC 08:55:39 *** glothit7ok[m] has quit IRC 08:56:30 <LordAro> nielsm: that would be nice, yes 08:58:29 <peter1138> Drop down lists were meant to be part of some grander plan for genericizing stuff, but it turned out they were a weird special case due to the pop-up "window". 08:59:05 <peter1138> That's why they are all alone in that directory, lost amongst the headers... 09:00:13 <peter1138> I guess other than dropdown_widget.h, the dropdown stuff should be in the main directory after all. 09:03:10 <andythenorth> how to explain cargo aging crap in buy menu? 09:03:17 <andythenorth> 'Comfort level'? 09:03:33 <reldred> Just call it cargo aging? 09:03:52 <reldred> I'm personally not a fan of inventing new terms for things. 09:04:13 <andythenorth> Well...what are the units? 09:04:21 <andythenorth> 'slow', 'fast' etc? 09:04:59 <nielsm> Comfort level: Standing/hard seats/soft seats 09:05:20 <reldred> Well when you're coding the .grf, what are you doing to cargo aging? Is it a bonus? A minus? Percentage based? 09:05:28 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 09:05:43 <reldred> Whatever term that is used should be applicable to cargo as well, in-case you go down that route later on. 09:05:54 <reldred> Either in Horse or Hog or whatever. 09:06:21 <andythenorth> I've removed all the cargo aging crap from freight 09:06:28 <reldred> Yeah I know 09:06:35 <reldred> But in case you revisit it later on. 09:06:40 <andythenorth> Nah it's a load of shit 09:06:45 <andythenorth> :D 09:06:57 <reldred> Also keeping in mind you very well may set the standard for terminology/etc that other set authors may copy from. 09:07:07 <andythenorth> seems not 09:07:19 <andythenorth> all this was solved around about 2013 09:07:29 <andythenorth> I thought I was innovating here, but all this is done already in multiple sets 09:08:28 <reldred> Perhaps, but your implementation of your set is probably the most consistent and polished of all the vehicle sets I've used over the last decade and a half. 09:08:40 <andythenorth> https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=216434 09:08:59 <peter1138> Is this property 2B? 09:09:17 <andythenorth> yes 09:09:21 <andythenorth> and explaining it to player 09:09:33 <andythenorth> "in words of one sentence" 09:09:46 <peter1138> So in OpenTTD since 1.2. 09:09:49 <reldred> Let me have a look 09:09:51 <peter1138> 10 years. 09:09:57 <andythenorth> yeah around for a long time 09:10:12 <peter1138> So it's not really surprising that it's not you innovating by using this attribute :p 09:10:16 <andythenorth> no 09:10:34 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Apparently "yacht transport ship" is a thing? https://gcaptain.com/rescue-underway-for-abandoned-yacht-transport-ship-adrift-off-norway/ 09:11:15 <andythenorth> There are better ones than that 09:11:33 <andythenorth> It's a thing to relocate yachts to one end of popular sailing routes 09:11:39 <andythenorth> or between regions 09:11:52 <andythenorth> that one looks a bit...sinky? :) 09:12:08 <andythenorth> https://www.yacht-transport.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-ILXleXr7wIVDIFQBh1tRA3YEAAYASAAEgLc1PD_BwE 09:12:44 <andythenorth> quite cool no? :) 09:12:44 <reldred> I dunno, I'm looking at it and just thinking 'Cargo aging', maybe for your set just use "Very Slow, Slow, Medium (Default), Fast, Very Fast" 09:12:56 <reldred> Define those values however the hell you like. 09:13:30 <andythenorth> what about if we give the vehicle the aging chart for the currently refitted cargo? 09:13:34 * andythenorth not even trolling here 09:13:43 <andythenorth> describing it in words is meaningless 09:13:55 <LordAro> andythenorth: neat. i knew they existed for transporting partially built hulls, but not full ships 09:13:58 <andythenorth> it's not the number of tiles, it's the number of days, and that changes with newgrf 09:14:08 <reldred> I don't think that's too difficult a concept, I mean if you make up a new term for it you then have to explain that term as 'cargo aging rate' anyway, just call it cargo aging. 09:14:31 <Eddi|zuHause> reldred: i'm thinking that description would fall unter "technically correct", but a player wouldn't know what that means 09:14:37 <andythenorth> Or I just skip all this and put 'role' 09:14:42 <andythenorth> Role: short routes 09:14:48 <andythenorth> what is 'short'? 09:14:57 <andythenorth> Role: urban 09:15:36 <andythenorth> Horse Metro already does this actuall 09:15:42 <andythenorth> Role: high capacity urban 09:15:43 <reldred> Eddi|zuHause: you reckon? TrueBrain and I had this argument about terrain generation. I think sometimes people think players are dumber than what they actually are. I think it's *ambiguous terms* that causes issues with players. 09:15:55 <Eddi|zuHause> ticket class: "local", "long distance", "luxury" 09:15:57 <andythenorth> Player then turns up with 2 stations on opposite sides of 128 tile city 09:16:06 <andythenorth> Runs metros, shows I suck 09:16:14 <andythenorth> oh dear 09:16:31 <reldred> Well the problem with roles andy is dickwagon thought 1024 tiles was a reasonable 'commuter' route... LOL 09:16:36 <andythenorth> Ambiguous terms are murder 09:16:47 <andythenorth> Oh wait, no I'm being ambiguous there :P 09:17:04 <andythenorth> The less confusing thing would be: 09:17:14 <andythenorth> Payment bonus: 1.5x 09:17:21 <reldred> I mean if you write anything in that field other than cargo aging, at some point you're going to have to explain that it is cargo aging. May as well just be upfront about it. 09:17:28 <Eddi|zuHause> reldred: just the word "commuter" is already ambiguous enough... 09:17:31 <reldred> I personally still like the 'Suitable for' field 09:17:45 <reldred> That should still stick around 09:17:52 <nielsm> andythenorth: how about just straight up "suitable distance: 20-50 tiles" something like that 09:18:01 <andythenorth> it's not a distance though :) 09:18:06 <andythenorth> otherwise I would 09:18:16 <nielsm> suitable travel time: X days 09:18:17 <reldred> Eddi|zuHause: yeah that's what I'm getting at. 09:18:28 <reldred> Prop 2B is measured in 'ticks' though. 09:18:34 <andythenorth> travel time requires knowing the payment curve set by the newgrf 09:18:45 <andythenorth> guess which FIRS type grf changes the payment curvers for pax? 09:18:47 <andythenorth> curves * 09:19:03 <reldred> But even just 'medium' 'slow' 'very fast' at least gives a point of reference vs. other wagons in your set. 09:19:06 <andythenorth> explaining crap in the buy menu is .... the worst :D 09:19:40 <andythenorth> I've already repainted the fast aging coaches to reduce player confusion 09:19:53 <andythenorth> maybe looking different will help show difference 09:20:30 <reldred> Yeah, looking more distinct is always a good thing anyway. 09:20:39 <andythenorth> Goes it add Horse parameter for cargo aging factor? 09:20:44 <reldred> Not that your sprites were 'bad' 09:20:45 <andythenorth> then player can define what short is 09:21:20 <andythenorth> How many tiles for short route: x 09:21:25 <FLHerne> no 09:21:26 <andythenorth> days not tiles 09:21:32 <reldred> Yeah, define with variables what slow/medium/fast is? then they can't complain LOL 09:21:33 <andythenorth> How many days for short route: x 09:21:39 <andythenorth> How many days for long route: y 09:21:42 <andythenorth> interpolate x and y 09:22:07 <andythenorth> Because Players Definitely Need This Level of Control yes/no? 09:22:13 <reldred> Maybe just go with your gut and define that as the 'medium' setting and then extrapolate from there? I mean as I've said before I've had no problems with 2.21.1 09:22:34 <reldred> On the size maps I play at least. 09:22:38 *** Elouin has joined #openttd 09:22:53 <reldred> Which are anywhere from 256x1024 up to 2k x 4k 09:23:13 <andythenorth> Comfort level: LOL 09:23:15 <reldred> I also partially solved the issue for my games by using daylength patch in JGR 09:23:19 <andythenorth> Comfort level: Doge 09:23:34 <andythenorth> I don't even want to think about what daylength does to this payment rate 09:23:35 <Timberwolf> You're way too altruistic. I've broken stuff outright often enough to realise that if you tell players something is happening, they'll find a way to believe it is. 09:23:51 <andythenorth> I don't care about the players :) 09:23:53 <reldred> It's all an illusion *wibbly wobbly hands* 09:23:53 <andythenorth> I care about it being good 09:23:54 <Timberwolf> It's nice if that's based in some mechanic which does influence the thing in question :) 09:24:08 <peter1138> When you try to clear up confusion and other person just gets more confused >_< 09:24:26 <andythenorth> Generally this is why I don't put much info in buy menu ^ :) 09:24:38 <andythenorth> People turn it into weird post-hoc rationalisations 09:24:39 <reldred> You hit a good sweet spot. 09:24:40 <andythenorth> and rumours 09:25:02 <andythenorth> Mostly the whole set is 'pick train, run train, make money' 09:25:09 <Timberwolf> I wonder if anyone assumes the little vehicle bios I put in have a gameplay effect... 09:25:11 <andythenorth> 'if not making money, scrap train, or git gud' 09:25:22 * andythenorth loads timberwolf trains 09:25:29 <reldred> I mean that's why I think you should just be upfront about cargo aging. Whatever units you use is kinda irrelevent so long as the set as a whole uses those units consistently. 09:25:41 <Timberwolf> I'm surprised I've not had any proper foamers complain, "that's blatantly incorrect" (other than a couple of typos) 09:25:45 <andythenorth> Timberwolf I want steep gradients for the 76! 09:25:52 <andythenorth> How do I get steeper gradients! 09:26:00 <andythenorth> 2 height levels per tile! 09:26:17 <FLHerne> andythenorth: That's always been the way of OpenTTD 09:26:18 <Timberwolf> I'd say "play Locomotion", but that's only available for narrow gauge. 09:26:28 <reldred> And then just maybe have parameters to /1 /2 /4 /8 or x2 x4 x8 the values afterwards to shut up idiots like dickwagon who want to make a '1k commuter route'. 09:26:29 <FLHerne> Players who *really* care about being optimal RTFM 09:26:56 <andythenorth> Timberwolf the engine sound is not accurate on the 26 09:27:02 <FLHerne> Players who just want to play go by trial-and-error and come up with their own irrational rules of thumb 09:27:04 <andythenorth> this is a good game :) 09:27:06 <reldred> I'm pretty picky when I sit down to build trains for my routes in Horse. 09:27:34 <reldred> Sometimes I pick wrong and it hurts, but that's part of the fun. 09:27:36 <Timberwolf> Agh, I still need to do something with sounds. 09:27:47 <Timberwolf> The Class 450/444 need to make their annoying and stupid noise. 09:27:53 <andythenorth> Timberwolf so I need to only use the class 33 in summer months on pax! 09:28:00 * andythenorth needs complicated timetabling 09:28:03 <FLHerne> Timberwolf: ...have you heard a 700? 09:28:10 <Timberwolf> Which set had proper heating rules? PKP? 09:28:40 <andythenorth> Snail has braking rules 09:28:49 <andythenorth> I haven't tried PKP 09:29:03 <andythenorth> I have considered brake type, and heating type as factors 09:29:06 <andythenorth> brrrrrrrrr 09:29:07 <Timberwolf> Between Trains and Road Vehicles, the vehicle bios represent some 400-odd times I managed to successfully battle the urge to write something silly. 09:29:14 <andythenorth> well done 09:29:18 <peter1138> Brr indeed. 09:29:24 <Timberwolf> Well, except for "2 horses". 09:29:37 <andythenorth> oh you did the wagons too 09:30:37 <andythenorth> I did not resist silliness, but I kept it short, and docs only https://grf.farm/iron-horse/2.22.0/html/proper_job.html 09:30:37 <Timberwolf> And the horse in a Zorb from Road Vehicles, but if you allow that to turn up in your game you're not exactly expecting a factual description of the real world prototype. 09:30:40 <TrueBrain> someone on Steam is asking if we can add a method to make the GUI bigger; it is too small for his 1080p screen :P 09:31:05 <reldred> tell him to buy glasses 09:31:30 <peter1138> biggui ;( 09:32:08 <reldred> OOohhh! I crashed 1.11.0! 09:32:38 <reldred> Just changed font size to 2x and it got upset 09:33:11 <Wolf01> Does OpenTTD support VR? 09:33:14 <andythenorth> Timberwolf couldn't resist, it's a very dry silliness :P https://grf.farm/iron-horse/2.22.0/html/stoat.html 09:33:15 <reldred> Huh, now it's fine. 09:33:32 <Timberwolf> Oh, is the Leopard and Foster Bus sounds being swapped an OpenTTD thing or an OpenSFX thing? 09:35:07 <Timberwolf> Oh yes, OpenSFX. This: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenSFX/commit/d92b939d1c594163bf7b1981a07d4e6ff090d5c3 09:35:52 <LordAro> we did a new release, no? 09:37:11 <Timberwolf> I should check to see if I have the latest, I saw that commit but not sure if the version I have is before or after it. 09:37:29 <LordAro> 1.0.1 fixed it, iirc 09:37:35 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] adamcirillo commented on issue #8963: Black Bars during gameplay https://git.io/JYFCT 09:37:43 <Timberwolf> Ah, cool. 09:38:03 <peter1138> Bloody Google Nest. It keeps turning my thermostat down because it's Spring... 09:38:15 <LordAro> lol 09:38:31 <peter1138> When it's 0 outside, 17 feels rather cool inside. 09:39:06 <andythenorth> so should I make a train payment calculator for Iron Horse html docs? 09:39:28 <andythenorth> it would be the most boring version of Train Whack! ever https://grf.farm/iron-horse/2.22.0/html/train_whack.html 09:39:32 <andythenorth> Train Accountant! 09:39:38 <andythenorth> Train Bean Counting! 09:39:45 <peter1138> reldred, there are some windows that don't scale very well, so depends what you have open at the time. 09:40:13 <Timberwolf> Very important and realism-breaking otherwise. 09:40:45 <andythenorth> Because I always check the cargo payment rate before building a route 09:40:50 <reldred> Eh, Ive had no problems with the 2x scaling of UI and Font on a Surface Go with a small 10" very high DPI panel, or my home desktop with a 3440x1440 panel. And the latter has a similar pixel density to most desktop 1080p panels. 09:40:52 <andythenorth> count the number of tiles on my fingers 09:41:10 <peter1138> Also, the github actions stuff refers to opengfx 0.6.0, not sure what that affects. 09:41:16 <reldred> andythenorth: bout a few 09:41:26 <andythenorth> I count in binary 09:41:33 <LordAro> peter1138: ? 09:41:41 <andythenorth> when I get to 10, the route requires planes 09:41:45 <reldred> Heh 09:42:05 <peter1138> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/746f1ca11a18af97e4fed06e5ac1af622bf21d35/.github/workflows/ci-build.yml#L117 09:42:08 <reldred> Gotta say, some days working on nfo I end up counting binary on my fingers... 09:42:23 <Timberwolf> There seems to have been some edict in what eventually became the Leyland empire, that all vehicles produced had to emit more noise from the gearbox than the engine. 09:47:37 <andythenorth> ok so either I call it Cargo Aging: [Very fast | Fast | Normal | Never] 09:47:54 <andythenorth> or Comfort Level: [Very low | Low | Normal | High] 09:48:04 <Timberwolf> When electric cars make fake engine noises there should be a nostalgic option for "transverse-mounted A series". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RevtlwDoOI&t=347s 09:48:24 <andythenorth> this is only for pax cars 09:48:31 <glx> trying x64-windows-static-md triplet was a good test case, as it fails at link time 09:48:37 <reldred> Just call it cargo aging. You're only going to have to explain to someone later andy that the 'comfort level' is cargo aging so why not just deal with it now. 09:48:40 <andythenorth> all freight wagons have cargo aging 'normal' no exceptions, does the buy menu also need to state 'Carging Aging' to avoid doubt? 09:48:55 <reldred> I'd only state it on the vehicles that need it stated? 09:49:06 <reldred> I'm just thinking about Hog2 or whatever comes down the line. 09:49:14 <andythenorth> Wagons don't state 'Power: 0hp' 09:49:20 <reldred> Exactly 09:49:38 <andythenorth> But what if cabooses affect aging rate? 09:49:43 <andythenorth> or what if players think they might? 09:49:50 * andythenorth inventing fake problems for lulz 09:50:07 <reldred> Refrigerated cars might be the only ones they could think of. 09:50:10 <andythenorth> yeah no 09:50:23 <andythenorth> I removed aging from those 09:50:38 <peter1138> Timberwolf, I wish I had that much leg room in a car. Especially as small a car as a Metro. 09:50:40 <andythenorth> 185 or bust 09:50:47 <reldred> Yeah, I'd only put the cargo aging on the vehicles it applies to. 09:51:12 <reldred> Maybe on the pax ones put aging: normal on the baseline just so people can compare. 09:51:31 <andythenorth> yup 09:51:34 <reldred> And then just state in the manual that cargo aging does not affect cargo wagons job done ship it 09:51:51 <peter1138> Timberwolf, my first car was a Fiat Uno, 1985 vintage. 09:52:00 <andythenorth> about that Horse manual.... https://grf.farm/iron-horse/2.22.0/html/get_started.html#setting-up :P 09:52:11 <andythenorth> uuf 09:52:44 <glx> peter1138: still use a '87 citroën visa 09:52:52 <peter1138> Problem with nostalgia for these old cars is they were actually shit, and very unsafe... 09:52:58 <peter1138> Nice. 09:53:22 <reldred> lel 09:53:30 <peter1138> I miss my Citroën Xantia. 09:53:45 <reldred> I love and miss my old Volvo 740 turbo wagon :'( 09:53:49 <peter1138> reldred, was it you with the tree? 09:53:55 <andythenorth> me never owned a car 09:54:00 <reldred> the tree? the TREE? 09:54:13 <reldred> I've been implicated in various things relating to trees 09:54:31 <reldred> stolen trees, cars crashed into trees, 09:54:41 <reldred> potentially fixing improved trees 09:54:43 <reldred> maybe 09:54:50 <reldred> Haven't stuck my nose in that one yet. 09:55:18 <reldred> I've been pondering generating tropic trees on coast lines... 09:55:26 <peter1138> Tree hugging hippy crap! 09:55:59 <reldred> I wouldn't say I was ever a tree hugging hippy. Used to go to a lot of hippy psy trance raves and do drugs though. 09:56:28 <peter1138> The car was tree hugging... 09:57:55 <reldred> Oh yeah. Red one. That hugged a tree alright. Bent like a goddamn banana. 09:58:07 <reldred> How I walked away from that one... 09:58:38 <reldred> No I later on bought a white 740 wagon. With a turbo. Because the red one without a turbo was obviously not enough jandal for me. 09:58:55 <reldred> And I definitely didn't then fit a manual boost controller and dial it up to 12psi 09:59:07 <peter1138> :D 09:59:13 <glx> and screenshot crash is fixed 09:59:15 <glx> let's PR 10:02:09 *** Rau has joined #openttd 10:04:20 *** Rau has left #openttd 10:12:09 *** linda[m] has joined #openttd 10:15:56 *** karoline[m] has joined #openttd 10:17:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7441: Feature: Per-group wagon removal flag https://git.io/JYNkO 10:19:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #8964: Fix: [CMake] Use the right run-time library depending on vcpkg triplet https://git.io/JYNku 10:20:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #8943: Volume controls in Game Options window https://git.io/JYNk6 10:22:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #8943: Volume controls in Game Options window https://git.io/JYNkN 10:22:15 *** michi_cc_ is now known as michi_cc 10:29:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #8953: Fix: Use FluidSynth default soundfont https://git.io/JYQGl 10:30:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #8948: Fix: Honor default soundfont for FluidSynth https://git.io/JYSRe 10:34:12 <michi_cc> peter1138: Something in #7441 seems to break Windows CI regression, it gets stuck in that step. 10:35:34 <glx> hmm only thing I can see is the appariting of a message box 10:35:44 <glx> *apparition 10:36:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #8964: Fix: [CMake] Use the right run-time library depending on vcpkg triplet https://git.io/JYNt0 10:36:17 <glx> but openttd should not open them if there's no gui 10:36:33 <glx> so maybe a crash 10:39:35 <peter1138> Hmm, so Test is breaking... what does Test do. 10:39:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] FLHerne commented on pull request #41: Fix install location of 'make install' https://git.io/JYNth 10:40:58 <glx> hmm I seem to be stuck in an infinite loop after clicking on "ok" once bananas download are finished 10:41:16 <glx> ah it unstuck itself 10:42:18 <peter1138> 11:36 <@DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #8964: Fix: [CMake] Use the right run-time library depending on vcpkg triplet https://git.io/JYNt0 10:42:22 <peter1138> Oops 10:42:27 <peter1138> Test not available without configuration. (Missing "-C <config>"?) 10:42:27 <peter1138> Hmm 10:43:22 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 closed issue #8814: Assertion failed downloading content from BaNaNaS. https://git.io/JqTdZ 10:43:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #8964: Fix: [CMake] Use the right run-time library depending on vcpkg triplet https://git.io/JYNku 10:44:44 <glx> peter1138: ctest -C Debug 10:45:18 <glx> or Release or ReleaseWithDebInfo, depending on the current build type 10:46:10 <peter1138> 100% tests passed, 0 tests failed out of 2 10:46:11 <peter1138> Total Test time (real) = 20.37 sec 10:46:17 <peter1138> Takes a while but works. Hmm. 10:46:33 <glx> yeah it's long if you have many newgrf locally :) 10:47:28 <FLHerne> Hm, I tried to test the OpenMSX one, but music doesn't work for me at all 10:47:43 <FLHerne> It cycles through all the songs very rapidly without making any sound 10:48:02 <FLHerne> (including with OpenMSX from BaNaNaS) 10:48:13 <FLHerne> Am I missing a dep? 10:48:19 <LordAro> FLHerne: timidity, usually 10:48:24 <LordAro> or fluidsynth 10:48:29 <LordAro> (and associated soundfont) 10:49:16 <michi_cc> peter1138: It's entirely possible that something on the GitHub side is fucked up, I just noticed it getting stuck in that step. 10:50:24 <glx> I cancelled workflow 10:50:25 <peter1138> Oof, turns out if you forget WHERE in your SQL statement, and have joins, the conditions are ... a bit different :-) 10:50:36 <glx> no need to eat github ressources 10:51:23 <glx> Test project D:/a/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/build 10:51:24 <glx> Start 1: regression_regression 10:51:24 <glx> 1/2 Test #1: regression_regression ............ Passed 26.75 sec 10:51:24 <glx> Start 2: regression_stationlist 10:51:36 <glx> ah it's stuck in station list regression 10:52:17 <glx> but that's all I could get from github 10:53:42 <FLHerne> soundfonts take a while to download at 100kb/s :-( 10:53:44 <peter1138> ... 10:54:03 <peter1138> Do you think if I tested with the correct branch it might be more representative? 10:54:05 <glx> hmm and regression fails for me 10:56:46 <glx> ok I get a crash window for station list 10:57:18 <andythenorth> is naptime? 10:57:29 <glx> regression fails because notperfectai versioning is broken 10:57:42 <glx> ERROR: Registering two scripts with the same name and version 10:57:42 <glx> ERROR: 1: notperfectai-1.3\main.nut 10:57:42 <glx> ERROR: 2: notperfectai-1.5\main.nut 10:58:02 <michi_cc> Maybe some kind of compile flag that forces a text output of the crashlog with no dialog would be good for regression. 10:58:31 <glx> well that's my local error 10:58:37 <glx> not the github fail 11:00:15 <peter1138> Passes both tests for me. 11:01:24 <glx> will need to attach to debugger, but it's time to eat :) 11:01:37 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] FLHerne commented on pull request #20: Fix install location of 'make install' https://git.io/JYNOn 11:02:19 *** joey[m] has joined #openttd 11:02:21 <FLHerne> Can someone approve OpenSFX#14 and OpenMSX#20? I'm not in that group, but I've tested them and they work 11:06:11 *** ciet[m] has joined #openttd 11:08:49 <andythenorth> is it lunch already? 11:08:58 <LordAro> andythenorth: yes 11:09:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] LordAro approved pull request #41: Fix install location of 'make install' https://git.io/JYN36 11:10:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] LordAro approved pull request #20: Fix install location of 'make install' https://git.io/JYN3S 11:10:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] LordAro merged pull request #41: Fix install location of 'make install' https://git.io/JY6sf 11:10:19 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] LordAro merged pull request #20: Fix install location of 'make install' https://git.io/JY6sV 11:12:34 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 11:12:39 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 11:13:22 <andythenorth> lol 'return 0;' 11:13:33 <andythenorth> I made restaurant cars just eliminate run costs for pax coaches 11:13:46 <andythenorth> can't be arsed to test balancing some specific % 11:13:58 <andythenorth> specific % can just be 100% 11:15:05 <andythenorth> train is gonna make £300k / year anyway 11:15:15 <andythenorth> this saves £10k in running costs 11:15:18 <andythenorth> hardly touches 11:16:25 <nielsm> does the restaurant car have running costs in itself? 11:16:53 <andythenorth> yup 11:17:06 <andythenorth> conveniently the run cost is about 4x the cost of a pax coach 11:17:38 * andythenorth such silly balancing 11:17:42 <nielsm> well, so it kind of makes sense on trains with 2 or more passenger cars 11:17:47 <andythenorth> payment rate multiplier anyone? o_O 11:17:52 <nielsm> 3 or more I guess? 11:17:56 <andythenorth> about 3 11:17:58 <andythenorth> or 4 11:18:33 <andythenorth> ideally I'd just give it 50% of the capacity and 200% of the payment rate 11:18:38 <andythenorth> and not touch the other vehicles 11:18:42 *** cawal[m] has joined #openttd 11:18:47 <andythenorth> then there's none of this balancing crap 11:18:48 <nielsm> make the restaurant car carry 4 passengers and make them load really slowly, and not refittable 11:18:53 <andythenorth> it's just 'here, have restaurant car' 11:18:57 <andythenorth> but eh 11:19:14 <andythenorth> I couldn't figure out how to resolve the vehicle from VehicleCargoList so I couldn't patch a multiplier 11:19:48 <andythenorth> it would be much simpler to just have 'premium trains' and 'crap trains' 11:19:52 <andythenorth> and vary ticket price 11:20:26 <nielsm> short, medium and long distance passengers as distinct cargo types 11:20:50 <nielsm> short distance will not pay fare for destinations outside their own town 11:21:24 <nielsm> medium will only pay fare for destinations outside their own town, but at most half a map size away 11:21:32 <nielsm> long needs to travel at least half the map 11:22:04 <andythenorth> I proposed splitting pax cargos and frosch ran away from the channel 11:22:08 <andythenorth> I was trolling at the time 11:22:12 <andythenorth> but maybe it's a thing 11:22:25 <andythenorth> like yacd, but without the overhead 11:22:33 <andythenorth> _probably a silly idea_ 11:22:40 <FLHerne> something something Tourists 11:23:09 *** dude[m]1 has joined #openttd 11:23:52 <andythenorth> something something 11:23:58 <andythenorth> cargo subtypes! 11:25:07 * andythenorth goes it remove cargo aging effect from restaurant car? 11:25:11 <andythenorth> yes it goes 11:25:17 <andythenorth> one less thing to explain 11:25:27 <nielsm> also long distance passengers are only accepted by hotels 11:25:56 <andythenorth> so much gameplay 11:26:20 <andythenorth> but we need individual seats in vehicles to be refittable for this 11:26:30 <andythenorth> as long distance and short can use same bus 11:26:34 <andythenorth> for part of journey 11:26:40 <andythenorth> cargo subtypes! 11:28:00 <andythenorth> New Cargo Subtypes 11:28:04 <andythenorth> cargo packet has a subtype :P 11:32:53 <peter1138> sub cargo sub type sub types 11:34:08 <andythenorth> yes 11:34:10 <andythenorth> exactly 11:36:12 *** glothit7ok[m] has joined #openttd 11:39:05 *** Aileen[m] has joined #openttd 11:39:57 *** aperezdc has joined #openttd 11:40:42 <andythenorth> wait, it was lunch 11:40:47 * andythenorth wasting time making grfs 11:42:26 <peter1138> I've got a sandwich thin with jam on it, old school style. 11:42:29 <peter1138> Run out of salad. 11:42:50 <peter1138> I should send my partner out to the supermarket... 11:43:30 *** labs[m] has joined #openttd 11:43:50 <andythenorth> hmm Salt n Pepa 11:43:57 <andythenorth> they're not exactly Neneh Cherry are they 11:44:03 * andythenorth random play 11:44:41 *** paulus[m] has joined #openttd 11:45:27 *** johanna[m] has joined #openttd 11:46:00 *** Wuzzy has joined #openttd 11:46:34 *** gretel[m] has joined #openttd 11:46:44 <andythenorth> 1 egg or 2 for scrambled? 11:46:47 <andythenorth> toast is not very big 11:46:48 <andythenorth> 1 11:47:20 *** igor[m]2 has joined #openttd 11:47:47 *** jact[m] has joined #openttd 11:52:44 <peter1138> Why did I not think of egg? :( 11:53:24 <andythenorth> because there is only one thought of egg 11:53:27 <andythenorth> and I was using it 11:53:38 <andythenorth> I had it locked 11:53:47 <andythenorth> however I am now done with it 11:54:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] brunodelara-cloudcrm opened issue #186: [pt_BR] Translator access request https://git.io/JYNWY 11:59:31 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 12:08:27 <andythenorth> quak it's snail_UES_ 12:08:54 <snail_UES_> good morning :) 12:10:38 <andythenorth> so how to game mechanic for motorail? 12:10:53 <andythenorth> just put pax capacity on the motorail wagons? 12:11:27 <peter1138> Urgh, why do I feel unwell. 12:11:41 <peter1138> Maybe it's a sugar rush from bread, jam & then a bit of chocolate. 12:12:15 <andythenorth> plausible 12:12:18 <andythenorth> or too much coffee 12:12:21 <andythenorth> or not enough 12:14:34 <peter1138> I love that if you have a file open in Excel, you can't say, send a copy or upload it. Because it's open. 12:15:03 <LordAro> i don't think that's exclusive to excel 12:15:12 <LordAro> though excel has its own set up weirdnesses about open files 12:17:23 *** amal[m] has joined #openttd 12:20:46 *** karl[m]5 has joined #openttd 12:23:09 *** christoph[m]2 has joined #openttd 12:24:41 <Timberwolf> My favourite is that the root object for the scripting language is based on the filename (without path), so you can't open two files with the same name. 12:25:35 <LordAro> ah yes, that's a classic 12:25:40 <peter1138> Yup 12:26:47 <andythenorth> I can't be bothered to do forum reply, but McZapkie's experience with slow 4k map mirrors what the mac client is doing with 4k maps 12:27:19 <andythenorth> is it new though, really? 12:27:22 * andythenorth tests 12:27:46 * andythenorth tries to ffwd world-gen, oops fails 12:27:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7441: Feature: Per-group wagon removal flag https://git.io/JYNR1 12:28:07 <glx> debugging done peter1138 ;) 12:28:55 *** leward[m] has joined #openttd 12:29:30 <andythenorth> mac client performance is ~same with 4k for 1.10 and 1.11 12:29:31 <peter1138> That is... odd. Whatever happened to compile time checks. :/ 12:30:21 *** yoltid[m] has joined #openttd 12:30:59 <LordAro> that is a bit odd 12:35:44 <glx> hmm but we disabled this kind of messages 12:36:13 <LordAro> cmake changes somehow? 12:36:26 <glx> no it's done in c++ 12:36:36 <glx> if defined(_MSC_VER) 12:36:36 <glx> /* Don't show abort message as we will get the crashlog window anyway. */ 12:36:36 <glx> _set_abort_behavior(0, _WRITE_ABORT_MSG); 12:36:36 <glx> #endif 12:36:43 <glx> unless it's a different kind 12:37:28 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 12:37:43 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 12:40:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7441: Feature: Per-group wagon removal flag https://git.io/JYNEb 12:42:32 <TrueBrain> lol ... if the network protocol tries to read a byte outside the size of the packet, it returns 0 12:42:38 <TrueBrain> not an error, as 0 could also be a valid value 12:42:43 <TrueBrain> so there is no way to know this from the caller :D 12:42:44 <TrueBrain> haha 12:43:15 <glx> ok seems to be a different kind and not catchable 12:44:49 <TrueBrain> owh, and also when the server is already disconnected, it doesn't allow reading the current packet anymore 12:44:54 <TrueBrain> explains the errors peter1138 was seeing yesterday 12:45:09 <TrueBrain> "here is a valid packet; owh, the socket is disconnected YOU CANNOT READ IT NOW MWHAHAHAHAHA" 12:45:11 <TrueBrain> such evilness 12:45:19 *** fiddeldibu[m] has joined #openttd 12:48:27 <peter1138> So I need to get into the habit of calling ctest, I guess. 12:48:46 *** JamesRoss[m] has joined #openttd 12:48:50 <peter1138> ... I have just noticed there's a button for it in VS Code... sigh. 12:49:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7441: Feature: Per-group wagon removal flag https://git.io/fjkJl 12:50:02 <TrueBrain> its like it is a standard :P 12:50:57 <peter1138> Well, the cmake integration doesn't exactly work the same was as other run/build/test in VS Code, so... 12:52:04 <peter1138> Maybe there's a launch.sj 12:52:07 <peter1138> ... 12:52:14 <peter1138> launch.json that works 13:02:02 *** Synck has joined #openttd 13:08:22 *** Synck has quit IRC 13:09:30 *** ad5twoknebor[m] has joined #openttd 13:12:54 *** shedidthedog[m] has joined #openttd 13:19:16 <Timberwolf> Hmm... I'm not normally one to go promoting my own stuff, but a thread of "mods to start at 1700" where most of the suggestions are, "this vehicle set starts in 1920" is almost like someone set up a topic to deliberately annoy me if I don't post, "er yeah, hey, I made some things for that" 13:19:47 *** patricia[m] has joined #openttd 13:25:39 <TrueBrain> getaddrinfo for hostname "", port 45206, address family either IPv4 or IPv6 and socket type tcp failed: Name or service not known 13:25:41 <TrueBrain> how strange :P 13:33:52 <peter1138> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=88727 Hmm welll 13:35:22 <TrueBrain> took him 2 days to find the wrong place to report it :D 13:37:54 <LordAro> 2 days? that crash log was generated 2 minutes before the post 13:38:07 <TrueBrain> ah, I did not check that :P 13:38:09 *** supermop_Home__ has joined #openttd 13:38:17 <TrueBrain> so let me rephrase: took us 2 days to find he reported in the wrong place :P 13:38:54 <LordAro> ah, yes 13:38:56 <peter1138> Hmm. Who owns a bridge? 13:39:19 <supermop_Home__> me 13:39:27 <peter1138> I've got a bridge over water between two towns, and the owner of each end is of course the nearest town for that end... 13:39:57 <reldred> The bridge does not exist. It is a magical portal. 13:40:16 * reldred wibbly wobbly hands 13:40:49 <andythenorth> oh dear :( https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1243455#p1243455 13:40:56 <andythenorth> reality hits convention 13:41:00 <andythenorth> oof 13:44:28 <peter1138> nielsm, deep oceans pls 13:44:58 <reldred> deep oceans pls 13:45:09 <reldred> More landgen stuff. MORE. 13:45:11 <peter1138> Just clearing up some trolling :p 13:46:35 <andythenorth> so which mod is the supported one? 13:46:39 <andythenorth> one mod 13:46:54 <Timberwolf> egvrts, naturally. 13:47:00 * andythenorth shouldn't be naught, what the post shows is how confusing the mods are :) 13:47:04 <andythenorth> naughty * 13:47:06 <peter1138> Aw, run out of money. 13:47:12 * andythenorth misses discord edit feature here 13:47:16 <andythenorth> irc twilight I think 13:47:44 <andythenorth> if Microsoft don't buy Discord and make a business version, work will have to switch from irc to Slack 13:47:46 <andythenorth> that's oof 13:48:07 <Timberwolf> I think also the problem of, "this mod hasn't been touched in years but it has sensible cargo classes and defaults, so works fine" vs. "this mod was abandoned recently but it's already broken for several industry sets" 13:48:54 <andythenorth> oh this again 13:48:54 <andythenorth> https://steamcommunity.com/app/1536610/discussions/0/3171072251340566293/ 13:51:02 <TrueBrain> [2021-04-07 15:50:43] dbg: [net] Auto-restarting map. Year 1951 reached 13:51:05 <TrueBrain> having random settings is funny :P 13:51:07 <andythenorth> peter1138 ctrl-alt-c 13:51:59 <peter1138> I'll just steal money from another player 13:52:12 <LordAro> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1243450#p1243450 found andy's sockpuppet 13:52:45 <peter1138> Can you give money via rcon? 13:59:12 <supermop_Home__> andythenorth i think currently horse fails the criterion of 'supported by its developer' 14:00:18 <reldred> ooof, rude :P 14:14:26 <peter1138> Hmm, feels like aBase on the intro screen struggles. 14:16:14 <andythenorth> if I had a sock puppet 14:16:28 <andythenorth> it would say 'please add a cargo payment multiplier to newgrf vehicles' 14:16:43 <andythenorth> campaigning for FIRS in base game seems like shooting myself in head :P 14:19:08 <supermop_Home__> andythenorth then firs is no longer your problem to maintain 14:19:19 <andythenorth> you think it works that way? :) 14:19:24 <andythenorth> pls send me newsletter 14:19:49 <supermop_Home__> it does if you get it in the game then run away to north sentinel island 14:20:15 <supermop_Home__> then nothing in the game is your problem anymore? 14:35:56 <andythenorth> Timberwolf please add realistic liveries :) 14:36:12 * andythenorth wants to see NSE in voxel 14:36:22 <andythenorth> or my sock puppet does https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=87283&start=300 14:36:40 <Timberwolf> I wonder how much horror is needed to make the vehicles use a fixed 2cc recolour rather than the player one. 14:37:03 <andythenorth> do you want to know? 14:37:08 <andythenorth> I actually know the answer to that 14:37:13 <andythenorth> you'll want a code generator 14:37:21 <Timberwolf> Heh. 14:37:49 <Timberwolf> My suspicion is, "relatively easy to do conceptually with a template-based approach, but you have done this and now it's not" 14:38:24 <andythenorth> no it's relatively easy 14:38:28 <andythenorth> just a bit brain-bending 14:38:57 <Timberwolf> Yeah, I think the limitation would be "how have I implemented things" not "is it easy to write the NML" 14:39:07 <andythenorth> palette_2cc(company_colour1, COLOUR_WHITE) etc is quite easy I think 14:39:24 <andythenorth> and the logic to get there is easy enough 14:39:51 <andythenorth> I made it harder by providing random darker of lighter shades of each company colour 14:40:18 *** glx_ has joined #openttd 14:40:18 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx_ 14:40:18 *** glx is now known as Guest806 14:40:18 *** glx_ is now known as glx 14:41:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #8480: Feature: Multitile depots https://git.io/JYN5J 14:41:56 <TrueBrain> peter1138: I have build a new better version (at least I hope) .. if you have some time to test again, I would love to see if it works this time :D 14:43:25 <TrueBrain> I also created boilerplate to allow clients to accept(), instead of only the server .. meaning that if the NAT in one direction fails, it can try it in the other direction too :D 14:43:39 <TrueBrain> but that is not finished yet, as I first want to know if this resolves the issue I had with peter1138 yesterday :) 14:46:33 *** Guest806 has quit IRC 14:50:51 *** glx_ has joined #openttd 14:50:51 *** glx is now known as Guest807 14:50:51 *** glx_ is now known as glx 14:53:49 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: I can see if it works for my ISP [Virgin Media] if you tell me which buttons to press 14:54:53 <TrueBrain> can you compile yourself? 14:55:18 <FLHerne> Yes 14:55:42 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/TrueBrain/OpenTTD/tree/stun-me <- clone and name the branch "stun-me" locally 14:55:48 <TrueBrain> compile and start a multiplayer server 14:55:51 <TrueBrain> and I will see if I can join it :D 14:57:21 *** Guest807 has quit IRC 14:57:47 <peter1138> See if you have a decent router or one that TrueBrain can 'hack' :-) 14:57:59 <FLHerne> heh 14:58:11 <TrueBrain> peter1138: :D 14:58:24 <TrueBrain> its crazy to realise most VOIP phones do this 14:58:51 <peter1138> I knew of STUN but I'd not ever looked at what was actually involved. 14:58:57 <TrueBrain> me neither 14:59:36 <TrueBrain> I am also still really surprised it works 15:00:16 <TrueBrain> I expected more routers to validate SYN sequence numbers 15:00:24 <TrueBrain> but clearly it is easier to only check source/dest pairs :P 15:00:47 <FLHerne> Well, at this point fixing it would piss everyone off 15:00:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler opened pull request #8966: Feature: News/advice setting to warn if no depot order in vehicle schedule https://git.io/JYNbo 15:00:58 <TrueBrain> it is also not so much "broken" 15:01:06 <TrueBrain> as in, I cannot see a real security issue with it 15:01:14 <TrueBrain> 2 sides make an outgoing connection to each other 15:01:21 <TrueBrain> so it makes sense that those 2 peers should be able to talk to each other 15:02:12 <andythenorth> encore Warcraft 1? 15:02:17 * andythenorth took a week off to do grf 15:02:21 <andythenorth> so naturally I'm not doing it 15:03:58 <peter1138> Silly sausage. 15:05:38 <peter1138> Hmm, there is a vcpkg for miniupnpc, but not libnatpmp 15:06:48 <peter1138> If miniupnpc can to NAT-PMP, that would be a better choice as it's maintained. libnatpmp isn't. 15:10:32 <peter1138> Haha, network nerds are like "UPNP can f right off" 15:10:42 <TrueBrain> anyway, let me know if you have some time to test again peter1138 ; this should give less weird errors at least :P 15:11:17 <TrueBrain> Network code is so hard to understand ... Templatest classes with static functions that fill static class members of the one defining the template 15:11:21 <TrueBrain> really, impossible to follow :P 15:11:34 <peter1138> In around an hour I can play. 15:12:27 <TrueBrain> sweet 15:14:03 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: server is 'Lemon 12' on 86.10.122.80 15:14:07 <FLHerne> also advertised 15:14:13 <FLHerne> password is 12345 15:14:20 <TrueBrain> funny enough, thename, IP and advertisement is all irrelevant :P 15:14:21 <FLHerne> (the same as on my luggage!) 15:14:26 <TrueBrain> all that is important is the lobby ID :) 15:14:31 <TrueBrain> which is "1" for your server :P 15:14:49 <TrueBrain> and I won't be able to join, as the branch-name is not set on your end, but let me try if the connection can be set up anyway :) 15:14:55 <FLHerne> "Your join-key: 1" 15:14:57 <FLHerne> yes, that 15:15:06 <TrueBrain> its not punshing through :'( 15:15:39 <peter1138> Turns out that TrueBrain made this mega cool system that only works on his own router... 15:15:50 <TrueBrain> peter1138: haha, no, I have more people for who it works :D 15:15:56 <TrueBrain> I tested it before I build it :P 15:16:14 <peter1138> Network nerds really are anti-UPNP. How dare something make it easy for users to do things... 15:16:20 <TrueBrain> I really need to make a simple application that gathers debug information about this :P 15:16:30 <TrueBrain> peter1138: security vs user-friendlyness .. 15:16:31 <peter1138> (I do understand it's a security risk, but still...) 15:16:35 <TrueBrain> an endless unwinning fight :D 15:16:43 <FLHerne> One moment, I rebuilt it with hopefully the right branch name 15:16:46 <TrueBrain> the most friendly system has no security in place :) 15:17:15 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: and please start with "-dnet=1" and I would like to see your logs afterwards :) 15:18:12 <peter1138> "just put them on public IPs and don't NAT" ooh yeah, we should do that 15:19:36 <FLHerne> My join key is 2 this time 15:19:48 <TrueBrain> yeah .. branch name still isn't correct, but that is okay :P I can't connect anyway :D 15:19:51 <TrueBrain> can you gist me your logs? 15:21:03 <FLHerne> https://dpaste.org/AmVa 15:21:08 <TrueBrain> weird part about this all, I am behind 3 NATs :P And I can punch a hole :P 15:21:23 <FLHerne> see also branch name in prompt :p 15:21:41 <TrueBrain> '20210407--g40190a5ebf" is your revision the game says 15:21:48 <TrueBrain> also shows like that in the main menu :) 15:21:55 <FLHerne> Oh, stupid, I forgot to actually check out the new branch :p 15:22:32 <TrueBrain> seems everything went as it should 15:22:41 <TrueBrain> so I need tcpdumps :P But I am sure peter1138 can help me with that tonight :D 15:22:59 <FLHerne> Yeah, now it's better 15:23:06 *** Flygon has quit IRC 15:23:18 <TrueBrain> if you like, start the game with "-n 3" 15:23:31 <FLHerne> Well, I can install tcpdump 15:23:47 <TrueBrain> if you know how to use it, would be lovely 15:24:05 <FLHerne> output looks better 15:24:12 <FLHerne> I don't now, but I can read the manpage 15:24:24 <FLHerne> Of course, half of manpages are inscrutable line noise 15:24:39 <TrueBrain> tcpdump -i eth -n host <myip> and port not 12121 and port not 12122 15:24:41 <TrueBrain> or something 15:24:49 <TrueBrain> but as you can see, you can just connect to me without issue :) 15:25:11 <peter1138> This is where truebrain forgets he set up is test platform as the DMZ host... 15:25:39 <TrueBrain> people that live nearby me had no issue connecting, so I am still not sure if it is a latency issue 15:25:42 <TrueBrain> or that I am doing something wrong 15:25:49 <TrueBrain> or this just doesn't work for most NATs :P 15:26:04 <FLHerne> Output from that run https://dpaste.org/jS7g 15:26:05 <TrueBrain> but I have an ISP NAT, Unify NAT, and WSL2 NAT .. and it punches through without issue 15:29:15 <TrueBrain> got any output from tcpdump? 15:31:47 <FLHerne> Is there a list of ports I *should* be listening to? Trying to blacklist them is just telling me how many random network-connected applications are running on here :p 15:32:17 <TrueBrain> tcpdump -i eth -n net 62.251.50.124 and port not 12121 and port not 12122 15:32:23 <TrueBrain> should filter out any other traffic 15:32:40 <nielsm> TrueBrain: I'll try to make a build and connect 15:32:47 <nielsm> if you have it running 15:32:51 <TrueBrain> yup 15:33:00 <TrueBrain> and it now supports infinite amounts of servers 15:33:03 <TrueBrain> so please :) 15:33:31 *** glx_ has joined #openttd 15:33:31 *** glx is now known as Guest810 15:33:32 *** glx_ is now known as glx 15:34:34 <nielsm> so how are you supposed to connect? 15:34:40 <TrueBrain> create a network game 15:34:47 <TrueBrain> I will see the lobby being created and try to join it :) 15:35:08 <FLHerne> https://dpaste.org/M0cq 15:35:32 <TrueBrain> tnx FLHerne 15:35:49 <TrueBrain> you have the simplist form of NAT, so hmm .. 15:36:21 <TrueBrain> nielsm: it was hanging at "Authorizing" 15:36:45 <TrueBrain> it is doing something 15:36:49 <TrueBrain> just really slow? 15:37:11 <nielsm> I'm in game playing 15:37:11 <TrueBrain> that is a completely different problem :D 15:37:28 <TrueBrain> bidirectional communication is established 15:37:35 <TrueBrain> but ... for some reason really slow? I dunno :P 15:37:51 <FLHerne> So am I, fwiw 15:37:52 <TrueBrain> I receive the network revision 15:38:10 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: you are ingame, or what do you mean? 15:38:15 <FLHerne> Yes 15:38:28 <TrueBrain> so the inability to join is an issue on my side? :P 15:38:31 <FLHerne> I saw "that is a completely different problem" and wondered if I'm not supposed to be 15:38:37 <nielsm> trying a new game 15:38:52 <nielsm> running with debuglevel net=3 now 15:39:12 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: what happens if you host a game and nielsm tries to join it? 15:40:00 *** Guest810 has quit IRC 15:40:32 <FLHerne> I think I phrased that confusingly, please ignore everything I said :p 15:40:48 <TrueBrain> nevertheless, I would like to know if nielsm can connect to FLHerne :) 15:42:10 <TrueBrain> surprised nielsm is not kicked for flooding :P 15:42:13 <TrueBrain> sorry :D And tnx nielsm 15:42:29 <TrueBrain> nielsm: can you join lobby 3? 15:42:31 <FLHerne> I have started a server 15:42:42 <FLHerne> just with `openttd -dnet=1` 15:42:57 <TrueBrain> (starting openttd with "-n 3") 15:42:57 <FLHerne> I can add the `-n 3` again if you wanted me to 15:43:01 <TrueBrain> no FLHerne 15:43:03 <TrueBrain> you host server 15:43:06 <TrueBrain> nielsm tries to join 15:43:10 <TrueBrain> -n joins a server :) 15:43:22 <FLHerne> Ok 15:43:24 <TrueBrain> ugh, Game Coordinator crashed :P 15:43:30 <TrueBrain> I wrote ugly code 15:43:33 <TrueBrain> nielsm: lobby 1 now :) 15:43:35 <FLHerne> And yes, it does say join-key: 3 15:43:46 <FLHerne> and now 1 15:43:48 <TrueBrain> hmm .. crash again .. oops 15:43:51 <TrueBrain> owh well, it recovered 15:43:52 <FLHerne> clearly you're spying on me 15:44:01 <TrueBrain> I see the logs from the game coordinator, yes :) 15:44:09 <TrueBrain> and, did that work? 15:44:36 <FLHerne> Nothing happened, so I assume not 15:44:46 <TrueBrain> bah .. was worth a shot :D 15:44:46 <FLHerne> tcpdump output is as before 15:45:01 <TrueBrain> yeah, that is expected 15:45:08 <TrueBrain> and tcpdump is not going to give more info at this point 15:45:16 <TrueBrain> I needed to know if I did the binding correct, and I did 15:45:20 <TrueBrain> some something else is going on 15:45:27 <TrueBrain> I need to write a test-tool to see what your NATs are doing 15:45:49 <nielsm> I think maybe I had windows firewall blocking before 15:46:02 <TrueBrain> start a new server and we can find out :) 15:46:04 <FLHerne> https://dpaste.org/LvaW 15:46:12 <nielsm> started a server now 15:46:21 <FLHerne> what number? 15:46:26 <nielsm> 2 15:46:33 <TrueBrain> nielsm: still same issue .. there is a connection, but it has a lot of packetloss and is dropped after a while 15:47:07 <FLHerne> It's hung up at 2/6 Authorising for me 15:47:15 <FLHerne> now dropped 15:47:16 <TrueBrain> yeah .. so you too 15:47:30 <TrueBrain> there is a connection, just something is conflicting 15:47:41 <TrueBrain> nielsm: what OS are you on? 15:48:23 <nielsm> win10 15:48:30 <TrueBrain> k, tnx both for testing :) 15:48:33 <TrueBrain> I have some more puzzling to do 15:48:44 <nielsm> and I think I have double NAT actually 15:48:58 <nielsm> I forget if I set my ISP's router/modem to passthrough or not 15:49:56 <nielsm> yeah it's two layers of NAT 15:50:11 <TrueBrain> yeah, I have a similar setup 15:50:30 <nielsm> uh... try if you can connect directly to my IP on 3979 15:50:40 <nielsm> because I think I actually have a regular port forward set up 15:51:07 <TrueBrain> UDP at least is not responding 15:51:22 <nielsm> only TCP forward set up 15:51:33 <TrueBrain> yeah, and -n doesn't allow IP-based joining atm :D 15:51:37 <TrueBrain> I had to hack it in somewhere :P 15:52:27 <TrueBrain> no reply over TCP either 15:57:25 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: looking at your tcpdump there is one interesting thing there .. for some reason there is an ICMP packet there .. let me see what that is about .. 15:58:37 <TrueBrain> ugh, we should just do TURN and make people pay for it :P Done :D 15:59:12 <TrueBrain> well, worst case, nielsm , I have some groundwork for when the protocol is fully UDP :P :P 15:59:36 <TrueBrain> now first,dinner time 16:01:15 <nielsm> I checked both my routers now and they definitely are set up right... 16:01:57 <nielsm> ...no they are not 16:03:50 *** nielsm is now known as Guest811 16:04:29 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 16:05:08 <peter1138> Ok, building stun-me 16:05:28 *** EER has quit IRC 16:06:22 <peter1138> And running 16:06:53 <peter1138> 4 ;D 16:07:07 <peter1138> Urgh, newgrfs 16:07:27 <nielsm> trying to connect to you, reached step 2 now 16:07:35 <TrueBrain> same 16:07:43 <TrueBrain> that is more than yesterday :P 16:07:44 <peter1138> Ok. Crashed. 16:07:59 <TrueBrain> right, dinner ... :P 16:08:02 <peter1138> assert(sockets.size() == 0); 16:08:36 <nielsm> trying to host again on my end, 5 16:09:01 <nielsm> and I also fixed my port forwards/DHCP reservations so port forwards should work for me again 16:09:22 <peter1138> If that works then this test is irrelevant :) 16:10:29 *** Guest811 has quit IRC 16:10:39 <peter1138> Waiting for TB to try :p 16:15:27 <TrueBrain> joining via lobbies doesn't use any portforward setup :P 16:15:51 <TrueBrain> omg peter1138 16:15:53 <TrueBrain> wtf is this 16:16:00 <TrueBrain> world smallest island 16:16:10 <TrueBrain> let me try connecting a few more times 16:16:13 <peter1138> setford is good 16:16:25 <TrueBrain> takes a bit of time before it works 16:16:41 <peter1138> That's better than not working, right? 16:16:58 <TrueBrain> absolutely 16:17:02 <TrueBrain> but also makes me wonder why that is :D 16:17:11 <TrueBrain> first connect fails 16:17:13 <TrueBrain> second works 16:17:15 <TrueBrain> timing issue :) 16:17:27 <TrueBrain> quick, nielsm / FLHerne , join lobby 6! 16:17:59 <TrueBrain> okay, so my work of today was useful :P 16:18:03 <FLHerne> 2/6 16:18:11 <FLHerne> 4/6 downloading 16:18:26 <FLHerne> disconnected 16:18:37 <TrueBrain> protocol error 16:18:38 <TrueBrain> lol 16:18:47 <FLHerne> I connected, and saw your 'welcome' message 16:18:48 <FLHerne> Then protocol error, yes 16:18:57 <FLHerne> Well, there was a hang 16:19:06 <nielsm> authorising... 16:19:17 <FLHerne> I got to 4/6, then "last 5 seconds no message from server", then joined 16:20:11 <TrueBrain> okay .. I think that is all latency related 16:20:18 <TrueBrain> I have some idea what I can do about that 16:20:22 <TrueBrain> but first, eating the dinner :D 16:20:27 <TrueBrain> tnx all! 16:23:04 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:28:48 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 16:33:04 <frosch123> TrueBrain: do you need more stunning? 16:33:23 <frosch123> my new router also has no option to configure port forwarding :p 16:36:16 <andythenorth> oof warcraft 1 ate my afternoon 16:36:20 <andythenorth> how did that happen then? 16:37:26 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 16:37:34 <frosch123> wow, i cannot even join my own server :p 16:44:36 <nielsm> hm random idea, make vehicles count how many times they have cycled through their orders list 16:45:13 <nielsm> that both gives a fun stat to look at, and could also allow conditional orders of the type "every Nth time, do X" 16:45:19 <andythenorth> expiring trains? 16:45:24 <andythenorth> like battery charge cycles 16:45:34 <andythenorth> 10 loops of the route, and it self-scraps 16:46:45 <frosch123> nielsm: did you try jgr's programmable signals and orders? 16:46:59 <frosch123> i would not be surprised if they have registers and state 16:47:15 <nielsm> only read about them 16:59:21 *** EER has joined #openttd 16:59:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] RiseOfDeath opened issue #8967: Game crash during startup https://git.io/JYAmd 17:02:27 *** didac has joined #openttd 17:05:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #8480: Feature: Multitile depots https://git.io/JYAYa 17:06:54 <TrueBrain> frosch123: it is not uncommon that routers don't allow connecting to their own public IP 17:07:24 <TrueBrain> at least I can join .. that is, if this is your server I am on :P :P 17:07:36 <milek7> that's mine :P 17:07:40 <TrueBrain> fair :P 17:07:42 <TrueBrain> hard to tell :) 17:07:48 <TrueBrain> a coal line, tssk 17:08:06 <TrueBrain> and a server with a password 17:08:07 <TrueBrain> eeuuuhhhhh 17:08:11 <frosch123> 123 17:08:15 <frosch123> i see you 17:08:27 <TrueBrain> so it "mostly" works :P 17:08:45 <frosch123> though it's weird that you appear in the client list before entering the pw 17:08:58 <TrueBrain> the whole password thing is done in such a weird moment/wy 17:09:02 <TrueBrain> we should really address that honestly 17:09:49 <frosch123> it says you joined via ipv4 17:09:58 <TrueBrain> yeah, this whole stuff atm is IPv4 only 17:10:03 <frosch123> ah, ok 17:10:09 <TrueBrain> mainly as the STUN server is IPv4 only :) 17:11:38 <TrueBrain> was reading some other people who did similar things 17:11:45 <TrueBrain> their summary is constant: there is a chance this works 17:11:49 <TrueBrain> and a chance it doesn't :P 17:13:09 <TrueBrain> another trick that seems to work .. just send connect() to each other .. lets see how stable that is 17:16:14 <TrueBrain> but the server assumes in more than one place it goes via accept() :P Lets see ... 17:17:36 *** glx_ has joined #openttd 17:17:36 *** glx is now known as Guest816 17:17:36 *** glx_ is now known as glx 17:17:51 <TrueBrain> that surprisingly works 17:18:09 <nielsm> got a new version I can try out? 17:18:13 <TrueBrain> pushing now 17:18:17 <TrueBrain> done 17:18:50 <TrueBrain> its an interesting idea .. 2 TCP sockets with connect() to each other will also establish a two-way stream 17:19:04 <TrueBrain> bypassing the whole need to do the accept() dance 17:19:29 <nielsm> you just need to know the source and destination port for both ends in advance 17:19:39 <TrueBrain> strictly seen it violates TCP specs, but most OS stacks appear to fix it 17:20:38 <TrueBrain> it works better, as there is no FIN on the line 17:20:40 <TrueBrain> which seems to be the issue 17:20:53 <TrueBrain> I love to see that nielsm also made a 64x64 map :P 17:20:58 <TrueBrain> or 128? 17:21:04 <TrueBrain> 128 .. 17:21:08 <TrueBrain> I should learn to count :D 17:21:18 <TrueBrain> right ... peter1138 / FLHerne up for another round of testing? :D 17:21:54 <FLHerne> well ok 17:22:31 <TrueBrain> hell, even if it works only for 50% of the people, it is a huge increase in people that do not have to fiddle with their router :P 17:22:32 <TrueBrain> the other suggestion solution is to leave the TCP connection to the STUN intact for the duration of the session 17:22:34 <TrueBrain> just idle 17:22:40 <TrueBrain> so NATs don't close the entry 17:22:52 <TrueBrain> but if we can avoid that, that would be lovely :P 17:22:59 <peter1138> Building 17:24:03 *** Guest816 has quit IRC 17:24:04 <TrueBrain> peter1138: flawless :D 17:24:39 <TrueBrain> so 3 / 3 so far 17:25:25 <nielsm> anyone I can try joining? 17:25:34 <peter1138> Yeah 17:25:43 <peter1138> So, er, how does it work? 17:25:58 <TrueBrain> peter1138: what part? The TCP part? 17:26:00 <TrueBrain> or the lobby part? 17:26:20 <FLHerne> I just started one, it's 3 17:26:29 <TrueBrain> so FLHerne 's makes 3 / 4 :P 17:26:30 <FLHerne> exited 17:26:49 <FLHerne> "the server didn't answer the request, red dialog" 17:26:55 <FLHerne> move quote 17:27:12 <peter1138> I got the same. Just sat there, my own server closed on me :p 17:28:06 <TrueBrain> you don't like that? Awh :P 17:28:27 <peter1138> Shit he's remote controlling my PC 17:29:27 <TrueBrain> the network code really assumes the server gets connections via accept(), so I guess something is acting up there 17:30:06 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: can you start your server again, just to see it wasn't an accident? 17:30:40 <FLHerne> same again 17:30:52 <FLHerne> six seconds after worldgen finished 17:30:59 <TrueBrain> most likely the moment I connect 17:31:03 <TrueBrain> restart and I will not connect 17:31:11 <TrueBrain> milek7's works fine too .. so that makes 4 out of 5 17:31:45 <FLHerne> ok so far 17:31:49 <TrueBrain> let me connect 17:31:54 <FLHerne> Didn't peter1138 say he got the same? 17:32:01 <FLHerne> exited 17:32:21 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: I know what is causing yours 17:32:35 <TrueBrain> basically, something on your machine is not allowing the outgoing connection as requested 17:32:43 <TrueBrain> so the connect() fails 17:32:55 <FLHerne> I'm not running ufw at the moment 17:32:57 <TrueBrain> (and I did not write the code yet to handle the failure case correct in case you are a server :P) 17:33:13 <FLHerne> What port does it want? 17:33:20 <TrueBrain> ports are dynamic 17:33:21 <nielsm> it uses random ports every time 17:33:27 <FLHerne> Hm 17:33:37 <TrueBrain> but tcpdump also showed an ICMP drop 17:33:52 <TrueBrain> for some reason, after binding, it is not allowing the outgoing packet to go 17:33:55 <FLHerne> And while I have various things using different ports, it's unlikely to hit used ones by chance :p 17:34:03 <TrueBrain> I have seen that on one of the test machines I have access to too 17:34:11 <TrueBrain> 0 chance, the kernel finds a free one 17:34:29 <FLHerne> nifty 17:34:48 <FLHerne> (this is on Linux 5.11.8, fwiw) 17:34:48 <nielsm> well if you have multiple machines on the network depending on the NAT implementation maybe it will remap the outgoing port number 17:34:54 <TrueBrain> I think this happens because it rebinds on the same socket 17:35:39 <TrueBrain> so basically, the first connection goes from A to B. Then we try a connect from A to C, and it says: NOPE I DO NOT KNOW HOW TO ROUTE TO C 17:35:49 <TrueBrain> while D to C does work 17:36:06 <TrueBrain> not completely sure how/why/what is going on there 17:36:52 <TrueBrain> (where A, B, C and D are (ip:port) pairs) 17:37:42 <peter1138> Hmm, maybe I should get a takeaway 17:40:29 <TrueBrain> oof, and I really need to do something about the connect() timeout .. guess that is also what frosch123 was having issues with over IPv6 :P It takes 30+ seconds before connect() times out :D 17:41:11 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: I pushed a new version; mind trying this? 17:41:25 <TrueBrain> it retries the connect() 3 times, just so see if that helps :D 17:41:31 <frosch123> yep, needs async resolve 17:42:44 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: ok 17:42:50 <FLHerne> (server open) 17:42:57 <TrueBrain> the logs showed 3 connection attmpts? 17:43:52 <FLHerne> https://dpaste.org/gmKb 17:44:21 <TrueBrain> so the second time at least it doesn't show "No route to host" 17:45:30 <TrueBrain> I guess the issue is that the NAT closes when it sees the FIN of the STUN request 17:45:35 <TrueBrain> which would be the sane thing to do btw 17:46:00 <TrueBrain> the suggested solution for that is to leave the STUN connection open, but .. that means we have 2 sockets open on the same local ip/port 17:46:15 <TrueBrain> for Windows that means they both receive data, randomly to which goes what 17:46:21 <TrueBrain> pretty sure I cannot reconstruct that :P 17:47:28 <TrueBrain> basically what I am doing is: open the door, close the door, and JUST before it is closed, sneak in another stream, which keeps the door open 17:47:40 <TrueBrain> I think that your NAT is quick in closing the door 17:48:21 <TrueBrain> and this is why UDP is more reliable, as the odds of that happening is much much lower 17:49:09 <TrueBrain> the other thing people do, is predict what the next port the NAT is gonna use, give or take, and just spray 17:49:18 <TrueBrain> so both sides try 10 ports or something 17:49:53 <TrueBrain> but that sounds really ... nasty 17:53:21 <andythenorth> uuf much sprites to redraw 17:53:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JYAZz 17:53:26 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 17:53:32 * andythenorth teddy bear drawing 17:54:04 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 17:54:15 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: just because I would like to confirm my hypothesis is correct, I pushed a new version that does the spraying 17:54:18 <TrueBrain> mind testing? :D 17:56:30 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: up 17:56:33 <TrueBrain> server full? 17:56:34 <TrueBrain> lol 17:56:37 <TrueBrain> but so yes, that is the issue 17:57:06 <TrueBrain> but did you really have a full server? :D 17:57:22 <FLHerne> It was set to max companies 1 for some reason 17:57:22 <FLHerne> now it isn't 17:57:39 <TrueBrain> now it has a password :P 17:57:45 <FLHerne> 12345 still 17:57:55 <FLHerne> I hope? 17:58:02 <TrueBrain> it is 17:58:03 <Wolf01> "password" 17:58:11 <TrueBrain> okay, tnx FLHerne 17:58:23 <TrueBrain> I think spraying like this really is not okay to do 17:58:39 <TrueBrain> but it does mean I am correct in my hypothesis, well, making it no longer a hypothesis I guess :D 17:58:49 <TrueBrain> but when your NAT sees the FIN, it closes the route 17:58:58 <TrueBrain> so for a short moment, reusing the route gives an ICMP error 17:59:04 <TrueBrain> and after that, it has another local port 17:59:15 <FLHerne> Wolf01: It's amazing, I have the same code on my luggage 17:59:32 <TrueBrain> I think we start off by not supporting those NATs, honestly 18:00:48 <Wolf01> My luggage only have 3 cyphers... so I had to drop the zero-fill :P 18:07:51 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: one thing I am curious about, but not sure you can help with that .. is it your NAT, or is it Linux? Do you happen to have a Windows machine or VM to test with? 18:09:30 <FLHerne> I don't have a Windows machine 18:09:47 <TrueBrain> too bad :D 18:09:51 <FLHerne> I could try tethering the laptop to my phone, I suppose... 18:09:54 <nielsm> I can try on linux a bit later 18:09:57 <FLHerne> Not sure if that would prove anything 18:10:03 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: it would 18:10:08 <TrueBrain> if it still doesn't work, it doesn't mean anything 18:10:12 <TrueBrain> but if it does work, it is your NAT :P 18:10:20 <FLHerne> Yeah, that's what I thought 18:10:36 <FLHerne> VM might be the same 18:10:57 <FLHerne> if it didn't work, it might just be that Linux is still being a layer of the notworking stack 18:11:03 <TrueBrain> yup 18:11:11 <TrueBrain> so if you can try tethering, it at least gives me another datapoint :D 18:11:27 <FLHerne> But I don't have a Windows VM on this machine, and the machine it's on is boxed up 18:12:01 <TrueBrain> yeah, no worries 18:12:26 <TrueBrain> owh, right, I have to remove the spray patch first, euh ... let me fix that 18:12:50 <FLHerne> now, can I find a phone signal... 18:13:29 <nielsm> making a linux build now 18:13:41 <TrueBrain> the current branch is bad, give me a sec :) 18:14:46 *** FLHerne_ has joined #openttd 18:14:54 <TrueBrain> pushed new version 18:14:57 <FLHerne_> hello 18:15:01 <FLHerne_> yes this works 18:15:02 <TrueBrain> FLHerne_: hi :P 18:15:57 <FLHerne_> hm, it's rebuilding more files this time 18:16:03 <nielsm> btw when you want others to continually fetch your branch and build/test, it's better if you don't amend commits and force-push 18:16:04 <TrueBrain> yeah, did some cleanup 18:16:11 <nielsm> makes it easier for others to just git pull 18:16:18 <TrueBrain> nielsm: I know :P I just keep forgetting :D 18:16:18 <FLHerne_> ip 18:16:21 <FLHerne_> up 18:16:37 <TrueBrain> so it is your NAT :) 18:16:42 <TrueBrain> cool! 18:16:54 <TrueBrain> nielsm: ammending is so hardwired, that I have a hard time not doing it :P 18:17:03 <TrueBrain> tnx a lot FLHerne_ 18:17:11 <TrueBrain> not the best outcome, but one that we can explain :) 18:17:25 <FLHerne_> The NAT is a modem-router from one of the UK's main ISPs, with stock configuration of everything relevant 18:17:45 <FLHerne_> So probably representative of a fairly large set of users 18:18:01 * FLHerne_ looks at router settings to see what it says 18:18:17 <FLHerne_> oh, wait, I'm not connected to it... 18:18:21 <TrueBrain> :D 18:18:25 <TrueBrain> stop tethering! :P 18:19:00 *** FLHerne__ has joined #openttd 18:19:21 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 18:19:59 *** FLHerne__ is now known as FLHerne 18:22:13 <nielsm> okay opengl is a disaster on my linux laptop 18:22:13 *** supermop_Home__ has quit IRC 18:22:20 <FLHerne> uPnP is enabled, "Firewall protection", "Port scan detection" and "IP flood detection" are all enabled 18:22:29 <FLHerne> "Block fragmented IP packets" is disabled 18:22:47 <TrueBrain> I think we do have to add uPnP too, and try that first 18:22:49 <nielsm> I see a "general timeout" error in the console 18:22:58 <TrueBrain> nielsm: that might have been me trying to connect :D 18:23:17 <FLHerne> It's this usual bullshit where it's simplified enough to be unclear, but still doesn't mean anything to non-technical people 18:24:04 <nielsm> TrueBrain yeah it shows your IP on that connection id 18:24:17 <TrueBrain> and it fails to connect 18:24:45 * peter1138 ponders asking his ISP for more IPs. 18:25:09 <nielsm> linux 5.10.17 (fedora) on same network as my desktop running windows 18:25:27 <TrueBrain> can we try your desktop with the same code too? Maybe I made a boo-boo in some cleanup I just did :D 18:26:19 *** FLHerne_ has quit IRC 18:26:21 <nielsm> building now 18:28:22 <TrueBrain> okay, so I fucked up something :D 18:28:22 <nielsm> same error 18:32:30 <TrueBrain> generic timeout you say .. hmm .. 18:33:16 <nielsm> want me to connect to you? 18:33:29 <TrueBrain> lobby 8 18:34:45 <TrueBrain> I did connect, but I timed out, right? 18:34:50 <TrueBrain> might be a variable that is not set correctly 18:37:52 <nielsm> I'll try a dedicated server then 18:38:21 <nielsm> nope general timeout 18:38:29 <TrueBrain> but the logs show we are connected? 18:38:46 <nielsm> https://0x0.st/-c0l.png 18:39:00 <TrueBrain> yeah, okay, so a timer is wrong 18:39:02 <TrueBrain> let me see which one 18:39:34 <TrueBrain> how things are initialized is really .. euh ... annoying to see :P 18:41:15 <TrueBrain> nielsm: what is your "max_init_time" ? 18:42:48 <TrueBrain> set network.max_init_time 18:42:51 <TrueBrain> should show that 18:43:19 <nielsm> 100 18:44:06 <TrueBrain> guess we need a bit of debugging .. 18:44:22 <TrueBrain> network.cpp, around like 275 is NetworkCalculateLag 18:44:25 <nielsm> try joining 11 once more 18:44:30 <nielsm> the game is paused now 18:44:42 <TrueBrain> revision mismatch, that is my mistake :D 18:44:47 <nielsm> the error says took more than 100 ticks to join so maybe if it's paused 18:45:17 <TrueBrain> my computer is now too slow to keep up 18:45:57 <TrueBrain> I am curious what last_frame_server / last_frame of "cs" is 18:46:10 <TrueBrain> I somehow have the feeling they are initialized wrong or something 18:46:18 <TrueBrain> but code-wise I see no reason for that 18:47:28 <TrueBrain> can you join your own server btw? 18:47:34 <TrueBrain> hmm, possible not via STUN .. :D 18:48:15 <nielsm> partially 18:48:20 <TrueBrain> same issue? 18:48:28 <nielsm> I do get the network revision 18:48:30 <LordAro> glx: #8967 needs a dmp decode :) 18:48:44 <nielsm> nope 18:49:25 <TrueBrain> I wonder why it works for me and not for you :D I am sure it is because I did something silly .. 18:49:57 <TrueBrain> but earlier I also had "pool" errors, which made no sense what so ever 18:50:06 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 18:55:59 <TrueBrain> nielsm: I can neither reproduce it, nor find the reason why it would do that :( 18:56:31 <TrueBrain> if you could add those debug prints I talked about earlier, maybe that sheds some light on the situation 19:04:23 <nielsm> I'm also going to patch IsNetworkCompatibleVersion to return true 19:04:44 <TrueBrain> smart :D 19:05:12 <nielsm> dedicated server started 19:05:34 <TrueBrain> let me try a direct ip connect .. 19:05:54 <TrueBrain> so it is somewhere in the new code .. something not initialized of sorts .. 19:06:33 <nielsm> https://gist.github.com/nielsmh/8e60a2a728c7670fd07f11bca760b007 19:06:53 <TrueBrain> huh? lag = 0, but it times out? 19:06:56 <TrueBrain> wth :D 19:07:19 <nielsm> yeah but like 150 lines of spam of that function 19:07:42 <TrueBrain> I guess that means the second part of the lag calculator kicke din 19:08:49 <TrueBrain> can you also print "_frame_counter" there? 19:09:48 <TrueBrain> most of that code needs to be rewritten to use the real clock, but okay .. something for another day :D 19:09:50 <nielsm> there 19:09:53 <TrueBrain> join timeouts based on ticks .. that is just odd 19:10:59 <nielsm> frame_counter went from 175 to 349 up one by each line printed 19:11:30 <TrueBrain> okay, so that is all working as expected, basically 19:11:46 <TrueBrain> it really took more than 100 ticks to start 19:12:08 <nielsm> also no, I'd say it's correct to calculate lag based on game ticks rather than real time 19:12:19 <TrueBrain> for some parts, yes 19:12:19 <nielsm> the problem is if the client falls behind the simulation 19:12:23 <TrueBrain> but for the initial packet? 19:12:47 <TrueBrain> there is a mix of "game" lag and "realtime" lag :) 19:13:24 <TrueBrain> for example, entering the password .. should be time rather than ticks, I say 19:13:32 <TrueBrain> anyway, can you set max_init_time to 1000 or so? 19:13:35 <TrueBrain> see if that fixes it? 19:15:28 <TrueBrain> that really doesn't feel like it took 3 seconds .. 19:15:32 <TrueBrain> 100 ticks is 3 seconds, right? 19:15:45 <nielsm> yes 19:15:54 <TrueBrain> hmm .. I did manage to join 19:15:59 <TrueBrain> but I am not receiving anything anymore :D 19:16:00 <nielsm> it's counting up... 19:16:03 <TrueBrain> owh, paused 19:16:30 <TrueBrain> time seems to flow correctly 19:16:40 <TrueBrain> but on join, it was also saying I didn't receive anything from the server for 5+ seconds 19:16:42 <TrueBrain> really strange 19:17:25 <TrueBrain> it really doesn't takes 3 seconds from the moment I am connected to being ingame, so I wonder why it gets so confused 19:17:44 <TrueBrain> too bad our logger doesn't add time :D 19:23:48 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #8967: Game crash during startup https://git.io/JYAmd 19:23:55 <TrueBrain> nielsm: I really do not understand what is going on here :) 19:25:39 *** qwebirc35055 has joined #openttd 19:26:05 <TrueBrain> nielsm: can we try one more time with the 1000 delay? To see if I can stay ingame for a longer period of time? 19:27:07 <TrueBrain> and now it doesn't want to connect at all :P Lol 19:28:35 <TrueBrain> that what was working before, stopped working now :D Great! 19:30:21 <TrueBrain> I receive a SYN and a FIN from you :P 19:30:23 <TrueBrain> no ACKs :D 19:30:50 <nielsm> lol 19:30:54 <TrueBrain> what did you do? 19:31:08 <nielsm> removed the debug print spamming the console 19:31:16 <TrueBrain> lol ... 19:31:37 <TrueBrain> well, it works now :P 19:31:56 <TrueBrain> can we leave it on for like 5 minutes? 19:32:03 <nielsm> ofc 19:32:11 <TrueBrain> tnx, and tnx a lot for helping testing :D 19:32:26 <TrueBrain> I guess tomorrow I make some GUI stuff for this .. so we can spread it a bit further .. collect some more samples 19:32:54 <nielsm> also maybe make it handle normal connects again 19:33:04 <TrueBrain> already have that locally, yes 19:33:51 <nielsm> dunno how you're doing it atm but I'd suggest using some prefix to indicate a lobby id 19:34:05 <TrueBrain> "-n +<lobby>" is wha tI did now :) 19:34:14 <TrueBrain> and I will make the GUI work tomorrow 19:34:15 <nielsm> that can't be mistaken for a hostname or ipv4 or ipv6 address 19:34:17 <TrueBrain> so we don't have to use it :P 19:34:24 <TrueBrain> + sign works for that, not? :D 19:34:25 <nielsm> does it work with the console connect command? 19:34:36 <TrueBrain> havent checked yet 19:34:48 <TrueBrain> I will put it on my list of things to look at 19:35:04 <peter1138> Hmm, maybe I should have had dinner 19:35:14 *** qwebirc35055 has quit IRC 19:38:42 <andythenorth> I tried dinner 19:38:44 <andythenorth> worked fine 19:38:45 *** FLHerne_ has joined #openttd 19:38:46 <peter1138> Huh, what's SimpleSpriteAlloc() used for? Is it for looking at sprite data outside the blitting system? 19:45:18 <peter1138> Cool, my mountain biking group is out tonight. 19:45:21 <peter1138> I'm not. 19:47:56 <peter1138> What was I thinking when I wrote this newgrf dock stuff.. 19:48:47 <nielsm> so it's not ready to ship, I take it 19:48:57 <nielsm> can't present it to your piers yet 19:49:23 <peter1138> So it's a whole new NewGRF feature, not GSF_STATIONS... 20:01:02 <nielsm> I just had the thought that easy conversion of singleplayer to multiplayer and having someone else join your game will make it much easier to help debug issues someone is having in a game 20:02:19 <TrueBrain> allow FF in MP you say? :D 20:05:07 <TrueBrain> k, this seems to work fine nielsm :D Tnx!! 20:05:15 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 20:06:27 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 20:13:28 *** supermop_Home has joined #openttd 20:15:18 <peter1138> Hmm, what's the diff between NWID_MATRIX and WWT_MATRIX? 20:16:15 <peter1138> Ah, "totally different" appears to be it 20:17:08 <peter1138> Why though. Hmm. 20:27:51 <nielsm> uh I figured out the difference a while ago when I did the tree planting UI rewrite and now I've forgotten again 20:29:05 <FLHerne_> " In this game you can find a lot of green tiles, you can find UFOs above the green tiles, but not a single iguana, does it make sense? I don't think so." 20:29:20 <FLHerne_> 12 people found this review helpful 20:29:25 *** FLHerne_ is now known as FLHerne 20:29:32 <TrueBrain> a positive or negative review? :D 20:29:33 *** glx_ has joined #openttd 20:29:33 *** glx is now known as Guest826 20:29:34 *** glx_ is now known as glx 20:29:39 <FLHerne> positive 20:30:05 <glx> my FTTH is so stable 20:31:09 <FLHerne> "this is the best game ever created, you can even make a train that goes faster than another train and make another train next to the first train that is going between the second train and the train that someone else built and another train that makes profit and another train that is very long and another train that takes coal and a bus!" 20:31:17 <FLHerne> I love the Steam reviews 20:32:48 <TrueBrain> if you feel sad, read Steam reviews of OpenTTD 20:32:51 <TrueBrain> insta better 20:35:59 *** Guest826 has quit IRC 20:42:30 <milek7> https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198411932041/recommended/1536610/ 20:42:34 <milek7> what happened there? ;p 20:43:24 <FLHerne> "cannot put stations, then can, then cannot" sounds like confusion about local authorities 20:43:34 <FLHerne> Which is understandable because it's a stupid mechanic 20:44:02 <TrueBrain> we can never ask, as comments are disabled :P 20:45:14 *** gelignite has quit IRC 20:47:41 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 21:03:09 *** didac has quit IRC 21:04:33 <Xaroth> 0.6 hours? that's like 35 minutes :P 21:05:04 <Xaroth> it takes skill to break something that quickly :P 21:05:33 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:05:56 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 21:14:40 *** TheArcaneBrony has joined #openttd 21:14:57 <TheArcaneBrony> hi, any chance 1.11.0 has a bug that prevents multiplayer from working? 21:15:13 <Xaroth> What kind of error are you getting? 21:15:36 <TheArcaneBrony> https://i.imgur.com/MU9NWHL.png 21:15:50 <TheArcaneBrony> "Your computer took too long to join the server" 21:16:01 <glx> how big is the map ? 21:16:10 <TheArcaneBrony> 4096x4096 21:16:24 <glx> too big for your computer I think 21:16:32 <LordAro> or the server 21:16:33 <TheArcaneBrony> i tried both ways 21:16:42 <TheArcaneBrony> between 2 clients, same error 21:16:46 <TheArcaneBrony> both directions 21:17:06 <LordAro> what is your download/upload speed? 21:17:18 <TheArcaneBrony> gigabit 21:17:24 <TheArcaneBrony> (its a LAN game) 21:17:33 <LordAro> hmm 21:17:37 <TheArcaneBrony> tried putting both clients on a wired connection, same error 21:17:47 <nielsm> try putting the game on pause before joining 21:18:22 <nielsm> (there is also a setting somewhere that makes the server auto-pause while someone is joining/downloading the map) 21:18:26 <LordAro> what CPU do the computers have? 21:18:54 <glx> btw 4k maps are usually boring to play ;) 21:19:16 *** Tirili has joined #openttd 21:19:39 <LordAro> (basically, no, there are no known issues with multiplayer) 21:19:51 <LordAro> try a smaller map 21:20:48 <TheArcaneBrony> i7-7950H in my case 21:21:18 <TheArcaneBrony> i3-4150 on the server 21:21:56 <glx> good point, you put the server on the "slowest" machine, that's the recommended setup 21:22:00 <LordAro> i3 could be a bit slow, mostly dependent on single-core clock speed 21:22:39 <LordAro> *a bit slow for 4k map 21:22:39 <nielsm> basically, first try if you can play with a sensible map size (not larger than 1024x1024) 21:22:55 <glx> it's better to have slow server than client unable to keep up 21:22:57 <nielsm> and also try if it makes a difference to have the game paused while people are joining 21:23:53 <nielsm> and yes I agree, unless you are something like 30 people at a lan party all agreeing to play together, a 4k map may as well be all of you playing singleplayer 21:24:04 <TheArcaneBrony> well, i tried with the server on the i7 first, but same thing 21:25:11 <glx> with or without pausing ? 21:28:49 *** glx_ has joined #openttd 21:28:49 *** glx is now known as Guest828 21:28:50 *** glx_ is now known as glx 21:30:32 <LordAro> glx: think you need to shout at your ISP 21:32:35 <glx> yeah but I first need to check the installation, it's new from saturday, I was on adsl before 21:32:59 <glx> maybe something is not fully inserted 21:33:11 <TheArcaneBrony> with pausing, same result 21:33:38 <glx> hmm there's a setting for join time IIRC 21:34:36 *** TheArcaneBrony has quit IRC 21:35:08 <glx> default is 500 ticks, about 15s 21:35:13 *** nielsm has quit IRC 21:35:13 *** Guest828 has quit IRC 21:35:49 <glx> quite low for 4k I think 21:36:26 <LordAro> mm 21:36:36 <LordAro> especially with the decompression stuff 21:36:53 <LordAro> gigabit lan, actually transferring the save should be essentially nothing 21:37:01 <LordAro> still, gone now 21:37:31 <TrueBrain> These values should scale to map size I guess ;) 21:38:34 <glx> gigabit lan could use "raw" save format 21:43:09 *** TheArcaneBrony has joined #openttd 21:43:18 <TheArcaneBrony> incase my client broke because its really silent here 21:43:34 <TheArcaneBrony> regardless i tried pausing, same thing 21:45:01 <milek7> 25s to save 4k map (on rather fast cpu) 21:45:07 <milek7> but it loads in under 3s 21:46:23 <milek7> TheArcaneBrony: there is max_download_time setting 21:46:28 <TheArcaneBrony> ah? 21:46:34 <TheArcaneBrony> ill try changing it on the host 21:48:23 <glx> https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Manual/FAQ%20multiplayer#people-get-disconnected-while-joining-how-to-fix-that 21:48:39 <TheArcaneBrony> is it possible the setting isnt there? 21:49:13 <glx> these settings are probably not available in GUI 21:49:25 <TheArcaneBrony> ah yeah i cant find them there 21:49:30 <glx> but they are from the console 21:49:46 <FLHerne> Should be in openttd.cfg under [network] 21:50:00 <FLHerne> (don't edit it while OpenTTD is running, it'll be overwritten) 21:50:02 <TheArcaneBrony> theres no console in gui, is there? 21:50:12 <FLHerne> There's a console in gui, press ` 21:50:20 <FLHerne> (backtick, above tab here) 21:50:20 <glx> key above tab 21:51:37 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] jasperfirecai2 opened issue #8968: Arrow key camera panning not consistent with framerate https://git.io/JYAK6 21:53:01 <TheArcaneBrony> milek7: command not found 21:53:10 <TheArcaneBrony> wait i need to use set 21:54:17 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 21:54:56 <TheArcaneBrony> froze at 27.0 MiB this time 21:55:04 <TheArcaneBrony> milek7: same error 21:55:59 *** glx_ has joined #openttd 21:55:59 *** glx is now known as Guest832 21:55:59 *** glx_ is now known as glx 21:57:36 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:58:58 <TheArcaneBrony> ill try to throw up a dedicated server on my linux box so i have the console there 22:00:08 <LordAro> TheArcaneBrony: what did you increase it to? 22:00:15 <LordAro> but seriously, use a smaller map 22:00:53 <TheArcaneBrony> is it possible to run a dedicated server without a graphics set? 22:02:02 <peter1138> 4096x4096 was a joke 22:02:24 *** Guest832 has quit IRC 22:03:14 <LordAro> TheArcaneBrony: no (though there is a nogfx graphics set lurking around the internet) 22:04:16 <TheArcaneBrony> you can apt install it apparently, and it works fine 22:04:38 <TheArcaneBrony> (apt install openttd-opengfx on ubuntu, works fine) 22:05:28 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:06:23 <LordAro> TheArcaneBrony: you have not yet explained why you cannot run, or even try, a smaller map 22:06:49 <TheArcaneBrony> fair enough 22:08:44 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 22:09:23 <FLHerne> LordAro: meh, if we support 4k maps they ought to work 22:09:36 <FLHerne> That said, they do suck from a gameplay perspective IMO 22:09:52 <milek7> it seems lzma is too slow for default time limit 22:10:14 <LordAro> seems like the solution is the zstd stuff 22:10:26 <LordAro> though possibly with some timeout scaling 22:12:07 <LordAro> though i'm not sure how we could do that sanely and the value still making any sense 22:12:22 <TheArcaneBrony> update: i found the fix 22:12:31 <TheArcaneBrony> i changed max_join_time to 32000 22:13:21 <peter1138> Enjoy getting lost and endlessly scrolling 22:13:30 <andythenorth> bank/me wonders about 4k map with no trees 22:13:36 <peter1138> BANK 22:13:38 <andythenorth> typo typo 22:13:44 <andythenorth> that's my password for my bank 22:13:45 <TheArcaneBrony> https://i.imgur.com/TpIQHFO.png 22:13:53 <LordAro> peter1138: you should try jgr's 8k maps :p 22:13:58 <andythenorth> not sure where I even typed bank 22:14:01 <andythenorth> HAXOR 22:14:04 <TheArcaneBrony> this seems to happen often 22:14:13 <TheArcaneBrony> or at least, it happened once 22:14:17 <peter1138> TheArcaneBrony, it's auto save, probablky. 22:14:48 <TheArcaneBrony> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.openttd.sdl&hl=en&gl=US 22:14:53 <TheArcaneBrony> this isnt official, is it? 22:15:03 <LordAro> no 22:15:09 <andythenorth> did someone delete the 'no trees' option :P 22:15:10 <andythenorth> oof 22:15:50 <andythenorth> 14080 industries on this 4k map 22:15:52 <andythenorth> 'lol 22:15:56 <andythenorth> GG connecting those 22:16:00 <LordAro> andythenorth: i feel like it got moved to the settings window? 22:16:24 <andythenorth> oh mine's off 22:16:26 <andythenorth> dunno why 22:16:28 <andythenorth> but eh 22:17:28 <andythenorth> I don't understand why ffwd doesn't make map gen go faster 22:17:33 <peter1138> :D 22:17:37 <andythenorth> what kind of game even is this? 22:17:42 <andythenorth> is it not modern? 22:17:56 <peter1138> Offload map gen to your gpu? 22:18:25 <andythenorth> good idea 22:18:27 *** Tirili has quit IRC 22:18:29 <andythenorth> then my mac will throttle 22:18:29 <peter1138> Create the map in chunks depending on what is being looked at? 22:18:45 <andythenorth> 16k in JGRPP 22:18:51 <andythenorth> 'probably fine' 22:19:13 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:19:20 <andythenorth> why is that the time already? 22:22:04 <peter1138> Available AIs "Regression" "StationList" 22:22:04 <peter1138> Hmm 22:23:30 <TheArcaneBrony> is there a way to decrease the scrolling sensitvity ingame? 22:24:07 <TheArcaneBrony> because im dealing with the map zoom being uncontrollable 22:25:36 <LordAro> as in, mouse scroll wheel? or scrolling across the map? 22:25:49 <LordAro> the former sounds like an issue with your mouse 22:26:34 <TheArcaneBrony> mouse scroll wheel 22:26:37 <TheArcaneBrony> im using a touchpad 22:27:59 <LordAro> ah 22:28:18 <LordAro> i'm not aware of any setting 22:28:31 <LordAro> but it wouldn't surprise me if there were one 22:31:05 <TheArcaneBrony> well there is one but changing it doesnt seem to help 22:31:48 <peter1138> If you're using touchpad then you probably want to set "Viewport scroll behaviour" to "move map with RMB" (or maybe LMB) 22:32:00 <peter1138> As the mouse-warp that the other modes do does not work with touchpad. 22:32:58 <peter1138> Or maybe it does, I might be thinking of touch screen :D 22:33:24 <TheArcaneBrony> im thinking of the zoom 22:33:42 <TheArcaneBrony> not the moving camera 22:34:21 <peter1138> Oh 22:34:26 <LordAro> i still feel like the touchpad sensitivity is at fault here 22:34:35 <LordAro> you're going to struggle to control a lot of other things 22:34:43 <peter1138> Get a mouse :D 22:34:52 <LordAro> accurately contol* 22:35:35 <LordAro> should be able to use +/- to zoom, right? or am i making that up? 22:36:06 <peter1138> Yeah but if the touchpad simulates mouse wheel with two fingers then who knows. 22:36:31 <LordAro> mine does that 22:36:43 <LordAro> it's challenging to control, but perfectly possible 22:38:07 <TheArcaneBrony> i cant change the touchpad sensitivity in windows 22:39:23 <peter1138> Use Timberwolf's trains in 1880. 22:39:32 <peter1138> SimpleAI has decided, of course, that the best train to use is... a horse. 22:40:05 <andythenorth> \o/ 22:40:14 <peter1138> It's gone for Plateway tracks, instead of normal rail. 22:40:14 <andythenorth> sounds valid 22:40:34 <peter1138> I wonder if there's a hidden "use highest indexed rail type" 22:41:06 <peter1138> 2 horses pulling 132 tonnes of grain, poor things. 22:42:56 <FLHerne> TheArcaneBrony: On my touchpad, I find it easier to control scrolling accurately if I move one finger and keep the other one still 22:43:17 <FLHerne> (because the touch point is averaged, so you effectively halve the sensitivity) 22:43:40 <FLHerne> May be dependent on particular touchpad drivers though 22:43:44 <andythenorth> moar Horse 22:50:10 <peter1138> Maybe sleep 22:50:14 <peter1138> Bit early, it's not 2am 22:50:57 <andythenorth> nearly 22:57:01 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 22:57:37 <TheArcaneBrony> ah 22:57:59 <TheArcaneBrony> that doesn't work for me 22:58:28 <TheArcaneBrony> is there a way to hide buildings? 22:58:58 <TheArcaneBrony> nvm, transparency options 23:00:00 <TheArcaneBrony> GUI scale anywhere? 23:00:21 <peter1138> Main "Game Options" windows 23:00:25 <TheArcaneBrony> im just dumb and not looking, yeah lol 23:01:28 <TheArcaneBrony> hm, setting it to 2x makes everything too big 23:14:26 *** glx_ has joined #openttd 23:14:26 *** glx is now known as Guest835 23:14:26 *** glx_ is now known as glx 23:14:56 <andythenorth> such sleeping time really 23:14:58 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 23:20:54 *** Guest835 has quit IRC 23:24:48 *** glx has quit IRC 23:29:01 <TheArcaneBrony> feature suggestion: chat history lol 23:43:00 *** EER has quit IRC