Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:01:54 *** tokai has joined #openttd 00:01:55 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 00:34:02 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 00:56:01 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 01:30:16 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 01:30:16 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 01:37:09 *** tokai has quit IRC 01:43:44 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 02:08:35 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 02:11:58 *** debdog has quit IRC 02:46:32 *** glx has quit IRC 03:05:20 *** lobstarooo has joined #openttd 03:11:35 *** lobster has quit IRC 03:11:41 *** lobstarooo is now known as lobster 03:28:47 *** Strakaty has quit IRC 04:23:09 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 04:25:02 *** tokai has joined #openttd 04:25:02 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 04:32:01 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 04:57:46 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 04:57:46 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 05:04:46 *** tokai has quit IRC 05:27:04 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 05:31:32 *** tokai has joined #openttd 05:31:32 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 05:36:23 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 05:38:30 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 05:54:54 *** erle- has joined #openttd 06:11:53 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:23:27 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:56:34 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 06:59:48 *** Flygon has quit IRC 07:58:55 <peter1138> Does #9114 have any compatibility implications? 08:01:46 <Rubidium> not really; the place where the new TCP packet is to be used is the lobby and that is (in the UI) guarded from people joining with the wrong version, although if people mess with the version then they might see weird things 08:02:26 <Rubidium> later, *if* the UDP gets removed you'll get into compatibility implication territory 08:05:46 <peter1138> Ah yes, it's after the disabled button. 08:07:54 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 08:07:54 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 08:09:28 *** y2kboy23_ has joined #openttd 08:12:49 *** y2kboy23 has quit IRC 08:14:54 *** tokai has quit IRC 08:16:10 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:39:37 <TrueBrain> peter1138: I even wrote that by Limitations :P :D 08:49:40 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #9114: Change: no longer use UDP when entering the lobby of a server https://git.io/JOA6c 08:53:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9114: Change: no longer use UDP when entering the lobby of a server https://git.io/JOFML 08:55:20 <TrueBrain> tnx :D 09:26:44 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 09:27:08 *** Samu has joined #openttd 09:37:29 <TrueBrain> oops .. unintended side-effects of 9112 .. IPv4 and IPv6 connects now happen at the same time .. curious how much that crashes .. 09:37:38 <TrueBrain> too bad WSL2 isn't dualstack .. lets try native :) 09:38:43 <peter1138> Oh, it doesn't actually wait for the timeout? 09:39:28 <TrueBrain> normally the connect was blocking 09:39:29 <TrueBrain> if the first failed 09:39:31 <TrueBrain> it tried the next family 09:39:35 <TrueBrain> now ... it just fires both :D 09:39:45 <TrueBrain> which isn't a bad solution, as we talked about yesterday 09:39:46 <peter1138> So you accidentally implemented my musings :) 09:39:50 <TrueBrain> but it does require we need to keep one of the two :P 09:39:53 <TrueBrain> :D 09:40:23 <TrueBrain> I have to trace this a bit more, as I expected it to assert, which it doesn't .. so .. yeah .. 09:40:58 <TrueBrain> ah, no, it is slightly worse 09:41:03 <TrueBrain> it never falls back now 09:41:30 <TrueBrain> as if you are dualstack, the IPv6 connect() always returns a valid socket 09:42:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 opened pull request #9116: Fix: [Network] Error handling on Windows broken https://git.io/JOAFF 09:49:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9116: Fix: [Network] Error handling on Windows broken https://git.io/JOAAk 09:51:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] kiwitreekor updated pull request #7575: Feature: Industry production graph https://git.io/fjc3i 09:52:19 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 updated pull request #9116: Fix: [Network] Error handling on Windows broken https://git.io/JOAFF 09:52:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] kiwitreekor updated pull request #7575: Feature: Industry production graph https://git.io/fjc3i 09:56:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] kiwitreekor commented on pull request #7575: Feature: Industry production graph https://git.io/JOAxQ 10:12:53 <TrueBrain> ugh, dual stack is a tiny bit harder to solve, meh 10:13:04 <TrueBrain> why did they make IPv4 / IPv6 so complicated :( 10:13:20 *** tokai has joined #openttd 10:13:20 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 10:20:11 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 updated pull request #9116: Fix: [Network] Error handling on Windows broken https://git.io/JOAFF 10:20:13 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 10:26:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9116: Fix: [Network] Error handling on Windows broken https://git.io/JOxI3 10:29:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #9116: Fix: [Network] Error handling on Windows broken https://git.io/JOxLn 10:42:33 *** lobstarooo has joined #openttd 10:45:34 *** lobster has quit IRC 10:45:43 *** lobstarooo is now known as lobster 10:46:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9112: Change: [Network] lower TCP connect() timeout to 3s https://git.io/JOdpa 10:48:42 <TrueBrain> right ... solved dualstack, but not in a pretty way .. 10:48:47 <TrueBrain> that needs a lot more work 10:49:03 <peter1138> Aww 10:49:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9112: Change: [Network] lower TCP connect() timeout to 3s https://git.io/JOdpa 10:49:26 <TrueBrain> now lets make sure the CI fails 10:49:30 <TrueBrain> as this now depends on #9116 :) 10:50:00 <TrueBrain> yeah, the way we do IPv6 / IPv4 is not really friendly to do async .. 10:50:10 <TrueBrain> but okay .. "it can be fixed" .. just not now :P 10:58:22 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 updated pull request #9116: Fix: [Network] Error handling on Windows broken https://git.io/JOAFF 11:00:13 <peter1138> Grr, I upgraded by gitea install, and I can longer create pull requests :/ 11:01:36 <peter1138> Ah, fixed it, cached JS file. 11:01:45 <peter1138> ^F5 wasn't doing it. 11:10:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ghisvail opened issue #9117: New game fails to start after upgrading FluidSynth to version 2.2.0 https://git.io/JOxCI 11:42:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #9117: New game fails to start after upgrading FluidSynth to version 2.2.0 https://git.io/JOxCI 11:46:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #9117: New game fails to start after upgrading FluidSynth to version 2.2.0 https://git.io/JOxCI 11:48:44 <peter1138> Breaking backwards compatibility, eh? 11:57:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #8909: Feature 7957, banlist: load/save ban lists from/to external files https://git.io/JOxXT 12:05:11 <LordAro> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=88249 12:05:12 <LordAro> lol 12:20:38 <TrueBrain> Hahaha 12:20:54 <TrueBrain> Can we also use cloud? And blockchain? 12:22:24 <peter1138> Google Stadia (the discontinued thing...) 12:22:41 <peter1138> Hmm maybe not discontinued. 12:23:29 <TrueBrain> made me laugh on stream, people yelling: IT IS DISCOUNTINUED 12:23:30 <TrueBrain> it isnot 12:23:34 <Timberwolf> OTTDCoin. Uses proof of trains. 12:23:34 <TrueBrain> they just closed their own game studio 12:23:43 <TrueBrain> which is kinda of a different thing :P 12:24:44 <peter1138> Oof, OpenTTD on the Windows store has the 1.11.1 changelog, but it's still 1.11.0 on the install. 12:24:46 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 12:24:51 <andythenorth> I had mac and cheese 12:24:57 <andythenorth> limited vitamin content 12:25:01 <TrueBrain> peter1138: something to ping orudge about :) 12:25:24 <peter1138> I had salad, and then a ham-kifli. (Basically a bread roll but shaped like a croissant for some reason) 12:25:46 <peter1138> andythenorth, protein and carbs though. 12:25:49 <Timberwolf> I overestimated how much cucumber would be one bagelsworth. 12:25:59 <andythenorth> I always overestimate salad 12:26:17 <andythenorth> OpenTTD Coin probably a thing 12:26:21 <andythenorth> let's do that 12:26:34 <peter1138> orudge, ping about ;-) 12:26:47 <_dp_> openttd coin is GBP :p 12:26:51 <peter1138> Does pinging him three times summon him? 12:26:55 <peter1138> _dp_, so worthless then. 12:26:56 <andythenorth> Earn coin 12:26:59 <andythenorth> Buy grfs 12:27:04 <andythenorth> but not FIRS 12:27:10 <andythenorth> FIRS disablement forthcoming 12:28:40 * andythenorth makes a salad 12:30:40 *** glx has joined #openttd 12:30:40 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 12:32:05 <peter1138> Just set up an email address for FIRS bugs which automatically deletes the email. 12:32:59 <andythenorth> like all my email? :) 12:46:24 <orudge> TrueBrain: a ping? 12:46:29 <andythenorth> oops 12:46:30 * orudge looks 12:46:31 <andythenorth> I didn't have salad 12:46:39 <andythenorth> I had Colin the Caterpillar sweets 12:46:57 <LordAro> andythenorth: insufficient Cuthbert 12:47:58 <orudge> [13:24:44] <peter1138> Oof, OpenTTD on the Windows store has the 1.11.1 changelog, but it's still 1.11.0 on the install. <-- I'm seeing 1.11.1 here - where are you seeing 1.11.0? 12:48:42 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 12:49:47 <Timberwolf> I find it concerning there are Colin sweets and a Percy cake. That's a boundary which should not have been blurred. 12:53:28 <orudge> peter1138: the File Version in the .exe is 1.11.0 (Product Version is 1.11.1) but that was an existing issue. But as far as I can see everything should be 1.11.1 on the WinStore version. 12:53:42 <glx> 1.11.0 shown is title bar 12:54:04 * glx just tried 12:54:11 <orudge> glx: hmm, still not seeing that :/ 12:54:14 <orudge> Let me uninstall and reinstall 12:54:28 <glx> and it's a fresh install for me 12:55:45 *** Samu has quit IRC 12:57:30 *** Samu has joined #openttd 12:57:54 <LordAro> could it be that WinStore is using File Version to determine whether something needs updating? 12:57:55 <orudge> Strange, I can only assume the web site 'lost' the new package in some way; I had installed the new package locally and it was definitely 1.11.1 12:58:28 <orudge> I've rebuilt the package to be sure, and will upload it again 12:59:26 <LordAro> presumably there's no automatable way of uploading to WinStore? 12:59:43 <orudge> LordAro: not last time I checked, but I will check again 13:02:28 <orudge> OK, it seems it is possible 13:02:38 <orudge> but you need to have an Azure Active Directory infrastructure set up to do so 13:02:41 <orudge> which, funnily enough, we don't 13:05:11 <orudge> Azure AD apparently has a free tier, but it sounds like there'll be a fair chunk of work involved 13:05:14 <Timberwolf> Arg, flashbacks. At a previous job someone had decided to run the entire company domain over Azure AD. 13:05:32 <orudge> Anyway, I have manually uploaded a new version of the package just now 13:06:08 <Timberwolf> A product they may as well rebrand as, "this feature is not available in Azure Active Directory" 13:09:24 <LordAro> orudge: probably nto worth it then 13:12:01 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 13:12:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 opened pull request #9118: Change: New English capitalization https://git.io/JOpRL 13:12:28 <orudge> LordAro: some of it may be tricky to automate - e.g., the release notes need to be under a certain number of characters. We could just chop it off at a certain point, but usually I need to rewrite them slightly. 13:13:11 <orudge> The actual .appx building I have a repo for already, which can run under GHA; I just need to tidy it up and decide whether it goes into the main openttd repo or its own repo 13:19:50 <FLHerne> I skimmed through the capitalisation PR, looks good 13:20:19 <FLHerne> I remember a concern was that it would cause inconsistencies with NewGRFs 13:20:30 <FLHerne> (e.g. cargo names) 13:20:44 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 13:20:44 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 13:21:01 <FLHerne> But there are so many inconsistencies now anyway 13:23:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #9118: Change: New English capitalization https://git.io/JOpa1 13:23:16 <peter1138> Actually it looks totally bollocks to me. 13:23:58 <LordAro> mm, exactly the same arguments as last time 13:24:04 <LordAro> still, at least it's split up properly this time 13:24:15 <peter1138> I didn't see it last time, but I guess it was bollocks then as well. 13:24:25 <peter1138> Split up? It's just one commit. 13:24:57 <FLHerne> There was a lot of bikeshedding about different people's pet quirks, most of which seemed inconsistent 13:25:08 <FLHerne> It used to be just one bigger commit :p 13:25:41 <LordAro> #8144 & #7870 13:25:44 <FLHerne> "later PRs" are promised 13:25:49 <peter1138> Window titles should be in title case... 13:25:57 <peter1138> Quite simple imho. 13:27:35 *** tokai has quit IRC 13:30:36 <FLHerne> peter1138: Which titles are de-title-cased? 13:30:42 <FLHerne> The MoS does say that 13:31:09 <FLHerne> I think you missed the amazing discovery when the wiki was being ported 13:31:19 <peter1138> I don't know who wrote the MoS. 13:31:27 <glx> 2 different pages with same name ? 13:34:19 <LordAro> same person 13:34:29 <LordAro> mcbanhas == sheepo99 13:34:42 <FLHerne> The old wiki was case-sensitive, and both "Manual of Style" and "Manual of style" existed 13:34:58 <LordAro> no one else has looked at or reviewed it 13:35:03 <FLHerne> They were mutually incompatible, including on the subject of titlecasing 13:35:03 <peter1138> So "this is the style you should use" and then "here's a patch to make it use the style I decided on"? 13:35:05 <FLHerne> I looked at it 13:35:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #9118: Change: New English capitalization https://git.io/JOpiZ 13:35:19 <FLHerne> ANd suggested a lot of changes, which were mostly made 13:35:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] FLHerne commented on pull request #9118: Change: New English capitalization https://git.io/JOpiy 13:36:21 <FLHerne> peter1138: There was a very, very long IRC discussion about this 13:36:26 <peter1138> So? 13:36:33 <FLHerne> Both the wiki page and the current patchset are the outcome of that 13:36:45 <FLHerne> It's not one person unilaterally inventing a style 13:37:22 <FLHerne> I think it was me, LordAro, andy and maybe Timberwolf 13:37:35 <FLHerne> plus sheepo99/mcbanhas of course 13:38:03 <peter1138> I don't think I was impolite? 13:38:11 <peter1138> Yes, I said it's bollocks here, but here isn't github. 13:38:49 <FLHerne> "most of these changes don't add anything" 13:38:56 <FLHerne> rest of it is, well, brusque 13:39:04 <FLHerne> What they add is consistency 13:39:24 <FLHerne> mcbanhas had a huge pile of screenshots demonstrating how wildly inconsistent the current casing is 13:39:50 <FLHerne> He also had some patches that dramatically improve wording for things, format tooltips and so on 13:39:59 <FLHerne> But this isn't the One Big Patch anymore 13:40:56 <peter1138> That isn't impolite. It's just a fact. 13:41:19 <FLHerne> It's a wrong fact, then 13:41:38 <FLHerne> And yes, "your work does nothing" is impolite 13:41:48 <FLHerne> If they thought it did nothing, they wouldn't have bothered 13:42:08 <peter1138> Okay 13:42:20 *** peter1138 has left #openttd 13:42:24 <FLHerne> well 13:42:53 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #9118: Change: New English capitalization https://git.io/JOpMO 13:43:39 <FLHerne> :-/ 13:43:58 <FLHerne> I guess now someone needs to tell me if *I* was impolite... 13:44:11 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 13:48:07 <TrueBrain> not how I read it at least; but as we established last time .. English is something everyone knows a bit about, and people tend to be passioned about that what they know about :) 13:55:51 * Rubidium wants to propose the old English capitalization ;) 13:57:02 <TrueBrain> I just want to move English to eints and let people figure this out like any other language 14:09:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] EratoNysiad opened pull request #9119: Allow NewGRFs to give error popups, without disabling them. https://git.io/JOpAa 14:12:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #9119: Allow NewGRFs to give error popups, without disabling them. https://git.io/JOpp8 14:12:39 <nielsm> can we make eints have a discussion forum for every line? 14:21:52 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC 14:24:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] EratoNysiad updated pull request #9119: Allow NewGRFs to give error popups, without disabling them. https://git.io/JOpAa 14:25:23 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 14:26:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #9119: Allow NewGRFs to give error popups, without disabling them. https://git.io/JOhks 14:27:24 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] EratoNysiad commented on pull request #9119: Allow NewGRFs to give error popups, without disabling them. https://git.io/JOhk1 14:29:12 <glx> ok I can see a deadlock in flatpak build, but I don't really get it 14:30:11 <glx> seems fluid_player_join() doesn't return 14:33:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] EratoNysiad updated pull request #9119: Allow NewGRFs to give error popups, without disabling them. https://git.io/JOpAa 14:35:20 *** snail_UES_ is now known as Guest2498 14:35:21 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 14:52:26 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ghisvail commented on issue #9117: New game fails to start after upgrading FluidSynth to version 2.2.0 https://git.io/JOxCI 14:53:45 <orudge> TrueBrain: trying a new code signing order for OpenTTD, hopefully this one will go through... 14:54:05 *** nielsm has quit IRC 14:54:50 <TrueBrain> orudge: \o/ 14:55:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #9117: New game fails to start after upgrading FluidSynth to version 2.2.0 https://git.io/JOxCI 15:02:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ghisvail commented on issue #9117: New game fails to start after upgrading FluidSynth to version 2.2.0 https://git.io/JOxCI 15:03:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #9119: Allow NewGRFs to give error popups, without disabling them. https://git.io/JOhRs 15:04:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #9119: Allow NewGRFs to give error popups, without disabling them. https://git.io/JOh0l 15:06:23 <TrueBrain> let's forgive him the rebasing part for now :P If we like the PR, that is trivial for us to do :D On Discord they are pushing him to go from 0 to 100 .. it is not really working out :P 15:07:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler requested changes for pull request #9119: Allow NewGRFs to give error popups, without disabling them. https://git.io/JOhEg 15:07:04 <LordAro> i wasn't concerned about rebasing 15:07:16 <LordAro> just the general lack of following dev guidelines 15:07:37 <TrueBrain> its requires a bit of hand holding :) 15:10:46 <TrueBrain> it is still annoying stuff like GitHub Desktop doesn't really support rebasing 15:10:52 <TrueBrain> makes our workflow annoying for those people 15:11:07 <TrueBrain> I consider our workflow pretty common 15:11:10 <TrueBrain> but .. seems it is not :D 15:12:03 <glx> rebasing PR is common I think 15:12:23 <TrueBrain> guess it is just tricky to show this in GUIs or something 15:12:24 <TrueBrain> dunno 15:12:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] EratoNysiad updated pull request #9119: Allow NewGRFs to give error popups, without disabling them. https://git.io/JOpAa 15:12:54 <glx> they recently added cherry pick suppor in the app 15:14:37 <glx> oh it's annoying to approve workflow run on every change 15:20:53 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9119: Allow NewGRFs to give error popups, without disabling them. https://git.io/JOhru 15:22:34 <glx> IIRC the diff between error and critical is auto close timer 15:22:40 <TrueBrain> it is 15:22:44 <TrueBrain> and right-mouse behaviour 15:22:53 <TrueBrain> criticals are annoying to close :) 15:23:23 <glx> yeah and this one is clearly not critical as game can continue 15:24:10 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] EratoNysiad updated pull request #9119: Allow NewGRFs to give error popups, without disabling them. https://git.io/JOpAa 15:24:56 <glx> and workflow run approved again 15:25:31 <glx> I understand why they decided to go this way, but it's annoying 15:25:47 <TrueBrain> I expected you only had to do it once per PR, honestly 15:26:47 <glx> well it prevents harmfull additions in next commits 15:26:56 <TrueBrain> I guess ... 15:34:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Kubsongames opened issue #9120: Crash Report https://git.io/JOhME 15:34:28 <TrueBrain> guess reading is the problem, not the template :D :D :D 15:34:53 <glx> hehe 15:35:12 <glx> based on stacktrace size I think it's a duplicate 15:35:31 <glx> but I'll ask to try the nightly branch on steam 15:37:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #9120: Crash Report https://git.io/JOhME 15:41:03 <glx> and the crash window (containing the pasted crash log) even shows where the asked for files are located ;) 15:46:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] EratoNysiad updated pull request #9119: Allow NewGRFs to give error popups, without disabling them. https://git.io/JOpAa 15:49:12 <LordAro> the usual ig4icd64.dll 15:53:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #9116: Fix: [Network] Error handling on Windows broken https://git.io/JOhF8 15:54:10 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #9120: Crash Report https://git.io/JOhME 15:59:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #9117: New game fails to start after upgrading FluidSynth to version 2.2.0 https://git.io/JOxCI 16:01:23 <LordAro> how are we up to 132 issues? 16:01:59 <TrueBrain> because nobody is closing them? :) 16:02:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] EratoNysiad updated pull request #9119: Allow NewGRFs to give error popups, without disabling them. https://git.io/JOpAa 16:02:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ghisvail commented on issue #9117: New game fails to start after upgrading FluidSynth to version 2.2.0 https://git.io/JOxCI 16:02:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #9117: New game fails to start after upgrading FluidSynth to version 2.2.0 https://git.io/JOxCI 16:03:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ghisvail commented on issue #9117: New game fails to start after upgrading FluidSynth to version 2.2.0 https://git.io/JOxCI 16:03:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] EratoNysiad updated pull request #9119: Allow NewGRFs to give error popups, without disabling them. https://git.io/JOpAa 16:04:50 <glx> and approving one more time :) 16:05:07 <TrueBrain> he should be done now :) 16:05:18 <TrueBrain> well, except for my open suggestion, ofc :P 16:17:02 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 16:21:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] EratoNysiad updated pull request #9119: Allow NewGRFs to give error popups, without disabling them. https://git.io/JOpAa 16:22:13 <TrueBrain> glx: I pressed the button this time :) 16:22:55 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:32:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] EratoNysiad updated pull request #9119: Allow NewGRFs to give error popups, without disabling them. https://git.io/JOpAa 16:35:24 <glx> hmm seems some previous commit are reverted now 16:37:26 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] EratoNysiad updated pull request #9119: Allow NewGRFs to give error popups, without disabling them. https://git.io/JOpAa 16:40:42 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 16:41:19 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 opened pull request #9121: Feature: support non-ASCII currency separator https://git.io/JOjOh 16:55:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #9121: Feature: support non-ASCII currency separator https://git.io/JOjck 16:56:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #9119: Allow NewGRFs to give error popups, without disabling them. https://git.io/JOjcB 16:57:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #9115: [NewGRF] There's no way to make Pop-up error messages that don't disable NewGRFs https://git.io/JObji 16:58:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #9119: Allow NewGRFs to give error popups, without disabling them. https://git.io/JOpAa 17:01:14 <LordAro> TrueBrain: does MSU still depend on bits of OTTD? 17:01:21 <LordAro> or has it been entirely replaced by python now? 17:04:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9121: Feature: support non-ASCII currency separator https://git.io/JOjly 17:05:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #9116: Fix: [Network] Error handling on Windows broken https://git.io/JOj8Y 17:06:03 <Rubidium> LordAro: I guess you saw I moved something with #ifdef OPENTTD_MSU, right? 17:06:09 <LordAro> yeah 17:06:43 <Rubidium> I was contemplating the same but also thinking that's a separate PR 17:06:56 <LordAro> for sure 17:07:42 <Rubidium> though if the old one is still alive I have broken OpenTTD communicating with the old one 17:16:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9116: Fix: [Network] Error handling on Windows broken https://git.io/JOjRy 17:17:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #9116: Fix: [Network] Error handling on Windows broken https://git.io/JOAFF 17:21:16 *** heffer_ has joined #openttd 17:23:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 approved pull request #9114: Change: no longer use UDP when entering the lobby of a server https://git.io/JOjux 17:24:03 *** heffer__ has joined #openttd 17:28:38 *** heffer has quit IRC 17:28:59 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 17:29:38 *** heffer_ has quit IRC 17:35:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 opened pull request #9122: Cleanup: remove #ifdefs for compiling the old content server https://git.io/JOjaj 17:36:58 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 17:38:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #9121: Feature: support non-ASCII currency separator https://git.io/JOjVd 17:39:22 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #9122: Cleanup: remove #ifdefs for compiling the old content server https://git.io/JOjwk 17:39:47 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 17:41:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 merged pull request #9121: Feature: support non-ASCII currency separator https://git.io/JOjOh 17:46:30 <TrueBrain> LordAro: the MSU does nothing with our C++ code anymore 17:46:39 <TrueBrain> any remaining references can safely be removed 17:47:17 <Rubidium> I'm waiting for eints to do its thing, so I do not break it again 17:47:22 <TrueBrain> funny how Rubidium called it content server :P 17:48:17 <TrueBrain> or maybe better: that OPENTTD_MSU was only still used around the content server code :P 17:48:18 <TrueBrain> its funny 17:48:49 <Rubidium> https://github.com/OpenTTD/MasterServer/blob/master/src/contentserver/contentserver.h#L14 <- that's where it's used 17:49:09 <TrueBrain> very happy those 2 code bases are now decoupled 17:49:15 <TrueBrain> worked in SVN, doesn't work on GitHub :) 17:49:25 <TrueBrain> or, ugh, "git submodules" 17:49:26 <TrueBrain> omg 17:49:28 <TrueBrain> no :) 17:50:06 <TrueBrain> but so to complement the question and answer: no, it also doesn't depend on the content server anymore :D 17:52:16 <LordAro> :) 17:52:53 *** erle- has quit IRC 17:53:21 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 17:53:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JOj6Z 17:53:52 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 17:54:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9112: Change: [Network] lower TCP connect() timeout to 3s https://git.io/JOdpa 17:56:52 <TrueBrain> even tested on Windows ^^ :P 17:57:11 <LordAro> :o 17:58:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 merged pull request #9122: Cleanup: remove #ifdefs for compiling the old content server https://git.io/JOjaj 17:59:09 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 18:00:01 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 18:01:17 *** supermop_Home has joined #openttd 18:01:36 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain dismissed a review for pull request #9114: Change: no longer use UDP when entering the lobby of a server https://git.io/JOjux 18:01:36 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9114: Change: no longer use UDP when entering the lobby of a server https://git.io/JOFML 18:02:58 <TrueBrain> that moment that you need to add a header-file somewhere, but you don't really know why it was working before 18:03:01 <andythenorth> hmm 18:03:03 <TrueBrain> as you didn't really touch that code :P 18:03:08 <andythenorth> do I just miss some newgrf global vars? 18:03:13 * andythenorth looks 18:04:40 <andythenorth> where are the action 7 flags for "vehicle of <feature type> offers refit to cargo <class>"? 18:04:47 <andythenorth> do I just miss them in the docs somewhere? 18:05:10 <TrueBrain> ah, include is coming via via via via, which I removed, as it was stupid :D Fine! 18:07:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rexxars commented on pull request #9004: Feature: Reload NewGRF on SIGUSR1 signal https://git.io/JOj18 18:07:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rexxars closed pull request #9004: Feature: Reload NewGRF on SIGUSR1 signal https://git.io/JOTUc 18:09:33 <andythenorth> maybe that action 7 stuff was only in grftopia 18:09:35 * andythenorth looks 18:10:47 <andythenorth> yeah it's https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Community/Essays/Frosch%27s%20NewGRF%20Configuration%20in%20Utopia 18:11:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 approved pull request #9112: Change: [Network] lower TCP connect() timeout to 3s https://git.io/JOjMZ 18:14:09 <andythenorth> (also making this list in discord)...I'm going to disable FIRS unless whitelisted vehicle grfs are found 18:14:15 <andythenorth> what grfs do you want on the list 18:14:30 <andythenorth> MUST cover RVs, trains, planes and boats 18:16:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 approved pull request #9114: Change: no longer use UDP when entering the lobby of a server https://git.io/JOjyU 18:18:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #9112: Change: [Network] lower TCP connect() timeout to 3s https://git.io/JOdpa 18:18:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #9114: Change: no longer use UDP when entering the lobby of a server https://git.io/JOFML 18:19:07 <TrueBrain> 1 step closer to STUN .. 18:19:23 *** azulcosta has joined #openttd 18:19:30 <azulcosta> hello to all 18:19:37 <TrueBrain> and to all, hello! 18:19:46 *** lobstarooo has joined #openttd 18:21:31 <azulcosta> my pocket question for this day is: can i have consists in openttd ? (multiple unit vehicles but with no power / consist of coaches/cars ?) 18:21:48 <andythenorth> no 18:22:38 <azulcosta> hum.. i'll try to make that then.... second question is: 18:23:49 <azulcosta> how can i use/change the cargo_age_period value in nml, so i can get a decent revenue using a restaurant coach and or a express coach, or even an sleeping coach with few passengers loading in ? is there any good values so i can use them ? 18:23:59 <andythenorth> don't 18:24:17 <andythenorth> I could give you a longer explanation, but don't use cargo_age_period 18:24:25 <andythenorth> it doesn't have any useful effect 18:24:52 <andythenorth> the problem you want to solve isn't solvable 18:25:46 *** lobster has quit IRC 18:25:47 *** lobstarooo is now known as lobster 18:25:54 <azulcosta> hum.... the cargo age period is independent for each vehicle, or get's the same value for whole train ? 18:26:01 <andythenorth> per vehicle 18:28:19 <andythenorth> oof, how do I make a google doc that isn't on my work gsuite account? 18:28:20 <andythenorth> lol 18:28:25 <azulcosta> i'm not the first asking this next one, but here it goes.... i was wondering a way to "simulate" 3rd passenger tickets, and first class/express revenue coaches.... and my point was to change the cargo_age_period... 18:28:32 <andythenorth> yeah don't :) 18:28:34 <andythenorth> it doesn't work 18:28:50 <andythenorth> I have spent literal days testing 18:28:52 <andythenorth> don't do it 18:28:57 <andythenorth> you can't simulate those features 18:29:14 <azulcosta> got it... next question: 18:29:40 <azulcosta> passengers boarding in one station will leave at next stop, or stay and leave in random next stop of the train ? 18:31:46 <andythenorth> depends on cdist settings :) 18:32:01 <andythenorth> if cdist off, they will leave at next stop 18:32:18 <andythenorth> if cdist on, some fraction will leave at next stop 18:33:19 <Timberwolf> andythenorth: Any good references/inspiration for varieties of boat? Particularly evolution of freight boats and tankers 1880-present, and passenger ferries 1880-1950 18:33:32 <andythenorth> Timberwolf I have stuff saved locally, I'll look 18:33:36 <andythenorth> TL;DR boats are weird 18:33:40 <Timberwolf> Yeah. 18:33:42 <andythenorth> they have many shapes 18:33:49 <andythenorth> some are very ugly 18:33:57 <andythenorth> some modern ones look old, and some old ones look modern 18:34:03 <FLHerne> andythenorth, azulcosta: You can have articulated non-powered vehicles, can't you? 18:34:07 <FLHerne> UKRS2 has lots 18:34:10 <andythenorth> azulcosta your first question - consist - maybe I misunderstood? 18:34:10 <FLHerne> like the cartics 18:34:14 <andythenorth> yeah that 18:34:21 <andythenorth> you mean articulated? 18:34:27 <FLHerne> andythenorth: wait, didn't you draw the cartics? 18:34:30 *** azulcosta has quit IRC 18:34:52 <Timberwolf> Yeah, every wagon in Timberwolf's is an articulated non-powered vehicle. 18:35:25 *** azulcosta has joined #openttd 18:35:34 <azulcosta> yes i can have 18:36:07 <andythenorth> FLHerne yes I did 18:36:13 <FLHerne> ok, I wasn't sure what "can i have consists in openttd?" actually meant 18:36:20 <andythenorth> I misunderstood maybe 18:36:27 <andythenorth> I was thinking about 'vehicle that can have orders' 18:36:28 <FLHerne> (tbh, I'm still not, but I think you've got answers) 18:37:13 <azulcosta> can i make a wagon that can carry mail and values simulataneous, but not excess the cargo limit with both cargos, (not splitting in half?) 18:38:04 <andythenorth> you have to split the capacity across two vehicles 18:38:15 <andythenorth> it's unwise, because it breaks autoreplace 18:38:25 <andythenorth> but it can be done 18:40:15 <azulcosta> so , by splitting the capacity i cannot have maximum load for one of the cargos, right ? 18:40:44 <andythenorth> not sure I understand the question :) 18:40:50 <andythenorth> what value for the maximum load, in tons? 18:40:58 <azulcosta> let's say 10 tons 18:41:13 <azulcosta> or 40t 18:41:23 <andythenorth> and you want to have option for 10 tons of pax, or 10t of mail, or 5t of mail and 5t of pax? 18:41:46 <azulcosta> no 18:42:07 <FLHerne> I think you could make both parts station-refittable, but the user can't manually refit them independently 18:42:23 <azulcosta> no, no refittable 18:42:39 <azulcosta> let me ask other words... 18:42:54 <azulcosta> can i have mixed cargo in one vehicle ? 18:43:30 <azulcosta> assuming, any load of cargo never passes the cargo limit? 18:44:01 <andythenorth> no 18:44:09 <andythenorth> each vehicle can only have one cargo 18:44:11 <azulcosta> so the wagon would fill in the first availabe cargo/cargoes at a station 18:44:25 <azulcosta> ok, understood 18:44:37 <FLHerne> If the vehicle has multiple articulated parts, I believe each part can have a different cargo 18:44:43 <FLHerne> (even if some are invisible) 18:44:53 <FLHerne> but then it's a UX headache 18:44:56 <azulcosta> yes, i use that tecnique 18:45:32 <FLHerne> And aircraft can have two cargoes, because the shadow counts... 18:46:06 <azulcosta> so, i was wondering a good pleasure for using wagon lits / sleeping coaches in the game.... but... without changing the cargo_age_period i can only play with maintenance costs, and loading speeds..... 18:46:49 <andythenorth> yes 18:47:38 <azulcosta> and that's my vision to make consists( multiple unit formation of unseparable coaches, using let's say a restaurant, and a sleeping coach).... because no sense buying individual restaurant coaches to fill a passenger train 18:48:03 <andythenorth> articulated consist 18:48:06 <azulcosta> yep 18:48:13 <andythenorth> or you can do it just by changing the sprites 18:48:21 <andythenorth> if you don't want gameplay effect 18:48:38 <azulcosta> hummm 18:48:43 <andythenorth> so e.g. 3rd vehicle has a different sprite 18:50:59 <azulcosta> i don't want to go that way, because the lenghts of the vehicles are different... 18:51:18 <azulcosta> next question: 18:51:45 <azulcosta> any good suggestion fot loading speed value number vs number of doors a coach have ? 18:54:55 <azulcosta> @Timberwolf are you here ? 18:56:18 * andythenorth wonders what Iron Horse does 18:56:54 <andythenorth> 5 18:56:59 <andythenorth> for everything I think 18:57:07 <azulcosta> that's the default value 18:59:31 <andythenorth> sounds plausible 18:59:45 <andythenorth> Iron Horse used to change the value for different vehicles 18:59:50 <andythenorth> think I deleted all that 19:00:06 <andythenorth> oh metro loads at 40 19:00:18 <azulcosta> interesting 19:00:28 <azulcosta> other question 19:00:30 <andythenorth> and high-capacity coaches load at 8 19:01:20 <azulcosta> ok 19:01:54 <azulcosta> ok, that's some good sample values to get a point.... thanks 19:02:06 *** azulcosta has quit IRC 19:03:56 <Timberwolf> I've messed with things a few times, I think mine load at between 4-8 depending on type (although probably weird stuff happens with articulated part logic) 19:04:31 <andythenorth> hmm 19:04:37 <andythenorth> I need a google doc or something 19:09:27 <andythenorth> hmm can I actually disable FIRS if the whitelisted grfs aren't found? 19:09:38 <andythenorth> that has to be possible 19:10:29 <glx> I think it is, has newgrf extensions disable themselves if "parent" is not found IIRC 19:16:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #8909: Feature 7957, banlist: load/save ban lists from/to external files https://git.io/J3eeO 19:18:10 <andythenorth> suggestions? https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1244403#p1244403 19:19:58 <LordAro> this sounds like a workaround for not having presets 19:20:02 <LordAro> make presets instead 19:20:26 <andythenorth> eh what now? 19:21:47 <andythenorth> it's a workaround for 'FIRS breaks the game frequently' 19:23:41 <glx> andythenorth: IIRC "UKRS add on" requires "UKRS" 19:24:24 <LordAro> in the same way that any industry set on their own "breaks the game" 19:24:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] Vimerum opened issue #203: [pt_BR] Translator access request https://git.io/J3eJs 19:24:45 <LordAro> hardcoding a list of grfs that are required to work with it isn't a good solution imo 19:25:01 <andythenorth> yes, I am hoping this can be downstreamed to XIS and AuzInd also 19:25:13 <andythenorth> I can expose this in a way other people can consume 19:25:30 <LordAro> hence grf presets 19:25:59 <andythenorth> pls send newsletter? 19:26:02 <andythenorth> what does it do :) 19:26:20 <LordAro> at the point we can remove "creating newgrf list" from a typical user's workflow, this becomes a nonissue 19:27:19 <andythenorth> so they just download a preset on bananas? 19:29:31 <michi_cc> Should Windows Store have 1.11.1 or are they just slow? (c.f. https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=88812) 19:31:58 <frosch123> michi_cc: owen is investigating 19:34:00 <glx> I think the issue is exe version itself 19:34:14 <Timberwolf> andythenorth: I have a FIRS tutorial going live Friday which deliberately mentions the vehicle thing. (Although that might not be that useful, Master Hellish mentions it in his Spotlight video and people seem to miss that) 19:34:21 <andythenorth> :) 19:34:54 <LordAro> should probably do 1.11.2 soon anyway 19:35:04 <glx> oh it's downloading an update 19:35:14 <LordAro> though it'd be nice if any of those intel graphics people could actually confirm whether the nightly fixes things 19:36:17 <glx> funny how they translated "play" in store GUI, they use "lecture" when "jouer" is what they wanted 19:36:57 <glx> and it says 1.11.1 now 19:37:31 <milek7> microsoft translations are just bizzare 19:37:42 <glx> bing translations ;) 19:38:38 *** tokai has joined #openttd 19:38:38 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 19:45:34 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 19:46:21 <_dp_> andythenorth, add a parameter to disable disabling :p 19:46:35 <andythenorth> yes 19:46:42 <andythenorth> I don't know if that was intended as a joke 19:46:46 <andythenorth> but that's what I'll do 19:46:58 <Timberwolf> I suggested similar in the forum thread. Reasoning that once people are opening up the newgrf parameters, you have some level of "knowing what they're doing" 19:47:27 <andythenorth> oh 19:47:33 <andythenorth> I could just default to a 'null' economy 19:47:36 <Timberwolf> My read is that the typical case is "I click it on the content downloader, it installs, now it works?" 19:47:36 <andythenorth> that is empty 19:47:43 <andythenorth> that would also solve the problem 19:47:59 <Timberwolf> So when that fails to happen, they don't understand what's going on. 19:48:01 <andythenorth> yes 19:48:07 <andythenorth> it's not the user's fault 19:48:13 <Timberwolf> I'm not certain, that was what I thought from the threads I saw. 19:48:13 <andythenorth> it's OpenTTD's or mine 19:48:40 <glx> I would not bet on «you have some level of "knowing what they're doing"» 19:49:20 <glx> following instructions and copy/pasting doesn't imply knowing 19:49:20 <andythenorth> https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/errxfy/hello_is_there_a_grf_that_allows_you_to_transport/ 19:49:55 <andythenorth> https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/l9asve/how_do_i_install_vehicles_to_transport_firs_cargo/ 19:50:22 <andythenorth> https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/4qe9zf/minimum_train_set_needed_to_play_firs/ 19:50:30 <andythenorth> https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/ia8nee/firs_cargo_capabilities_dont_match_train_vehicle/ 19:50:40 <andythenorth> https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/3npcc9/a_questions_about_firs/ 19:50:58 <glx> it's the same for any industry set adding new cargo 19:50:59 <andythenorth> I didn't post all the ones where kamnet is pre-emptively solving the problem 19:51:25 <andythenorth> glx :) 19:51:37 <glx> it's like "where are trams ?" 19:51:40 <andythenorth> https://steamcommunity.com/app/1536610/discussions/0/3171072251348966147/ 19:51:53 <andythenorth> https://steamcommunity.com/app/1536610/discussions/0/3171072251340566293/ 19:52:05 <Timberwolf> Those are interesting. 3/5 of them the person was aware they needed some kind of new vehicles, but didn't know how to find "FIRS-compatible vehicle set" 19:52:22 <andythenorth> https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/5qc0rs/bug_firs_egvrt/ 19:52:24 <Timberwolf> The others were more along the, "I downloaded this, why doesn't it just work?" 19:52:33 <andythenorth> https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/a5l03y/more_beginner_questions/ 19:52:42 <LordAro> presets 19:52:50 <LordAro> don't solve the wrong problem 19:53:52 <andythenorth> yes but presets don't exist 19:53:54 <andythenorth> and players do 19:54:07 <andythenorth> this is what's possible, not what's conceptually correct :) 19:54:19 <andythenorth> newgrf is just a shitshow of compromises, here's another 19:54:50 <andythenorth> I can always delete the whitelisting if something better emerges? 19:56:10 <andythenorth> are presets literally, "the presets we have, but distributed via bananas"? 19:56:45 <glx> oh there's an ECS&FIRS vehicle set, but it's outdated 19:58:23 <glx> maybe you could suggest some know working sets in FIRS description 19:59:17 <LordAro> andythenorth: i'm imagining "start a game with these newgrfs and these settings" 20:00:28 <glx> kind of scenarios but for random maps 20:00:32 <LordAro> mm 20:01:59 <glx> as scenarios use a form of preset, they may include some newgrf and custom settings 20:05:53 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 20:09:33 <andythenorth> hmm 20:09:36 <andythenorth> so default planes 20:09:40 * andythenorth needs to read the src 20:09:44 <andythenorth> FIRS doesn't break them 20:09:48 <andythenorth> which is unexpected 20:12:29 <andythenorth> anyone find the cargo refit list for default planes? 20:12:45 <andythenorth> not seeing it in aircraft_cmd.cpp or aircraft.h 20:14:18 <frosch123> andythenorth: if you get rid of the myths, you may discover some logic 20:14:35 <glx> default is no refit for planes I think 20:14:41 <frosch123> there are two overlapping issues 20:14:48 <Timberwolf> Observed behaviour is that they support CC_EXPRESS (which is Food/Fruit/Goods in temperate basic?) 20:14:52 <andythenorth> _something_ smart appears to being done for planes 20:14:57 <andythenorth> be * 20:14:57 * Timberwolf goes source diving. 20:15:05 <frosch123> 1) vehicle specify a default cargo by slot, which may be different with industry set 20:15:18 <frosch123> all aircraft have pax as default, that's why aiercraft do not break in firs 20:15:26 <frosch123> 2) vehicle have default refittability 20:15:33 <frosch123> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/newgrf.cpp#L8762 <- it is defined here 20:16:03 <frosch123> refittability for ships and aircraft is mostly original TTD, plus some typos from refactoring 3 times by 3 people 20:16:22 <frosch123> trains refittabilty is made up by someone in the past, also refactored 3 times, and changed along that 20:16:38 <Timberwolf> Aha. So it just happens the cargo for basegame aircraft is accidentally plausible in a FIRS game. 20:16:47 <frosch123> andythenorth: next myth to bust: refitting of train/ship/aircraft in ottd is older than newgrf 20:17:02 <frosch123> so any claims that "default refittability cannot be changed because of newgrf" is just bs 20:17:45 <frosch123> delete those tables at 8762, replace them with cargoclass masks for stuff like coal vans 20:17:58 <frosch123> and you have new default refittability 20:18:20 <frosch123> savegame compatbility yuo have to fight with the past refactorings, which broke it as well 20:19:06 <andythenorth> super! 20:19:08 <andythenorth> :) 20:19:10 <Timberwolf> It's weird it's in newgrf, because refits are a feature in TTD as well. 20:19:27 <andythenorth> I was not expecting to find it there :) 20:19:36 <frosch123> Timberwolf: yes, those were the 3 refactorings 20:20:01 <frosch123> in TTD ships were not refitable to rubber, but in ottd they are 20:20:11 <frosch123> in TTD aircraft were refittable to everything, in OTTD they are not 20:21:10 <frosch123> MAIL is pretty random in TTD, in some climates you can refit ships to mail, in some you can't 20:21:13 <glx> aircraft default refit are more sane in OTTD :) 20:21:30 <andythenorth> +1 20:21:37 <andythenorth> it actually makes sense :) 20:21:39 <frosch123> glx: but all those TTD savegames, OTTD is incompatible with! :p 20:22:04 <frosch123> oh wait, that's why we are not allowed to change it again? 20:22:54 <andythenorth> reasons I've seen before: (1) breaks newgrfs (2) not a game goal (3) breaks savegames 20:23:09 <andythenorth> 2 = preserve purity of original TTD 20:24:09 <Timberwolf> frosch123: If I hadn't been upstairs verifying that on a TTD installation, I'd have been able to read your words and save myself the time :) 20:24:45 <andythenorth> so is savegame compatibility a brain fuck? Or just work? 20:24:49 <frosch123> andythenorth: (1) is a myth. those default masks are not used for newgrf 20:24:54 <frosch123> that logic exists since ottd supports newgrf 20:25:48 <frosch123> andythenorth: "savegame compatibility" is easy compared to "player compatibility" 20:26:04 <frosch123> shall rubber get transported by the oil tanker, or by the cargo ship? 20:26:15 <frosch123> rubber is liquid apparently 20:26:21 <glx> tanker yes 20:26:33 <glx> unless it's cooked 20:26:46 <andythenorth> I would propose just copying ogfx+ and blaming whoever made that and has now left :) 20:26:58 <andythenorth> no longer here = fair game? :) 20:28:10 <frosch123> oldwagons-newcargos does it like this: coal wagon, oil tanker, goods wagon are refittable to all bulk, liquid, piece goods; except when there are specialised vehicles transporting that cargo by default 20:28:34 <frosch123> you can apply the same logic to rv and ships 20:28:51 <andythenorth> I would have been more permissive, but eh 20:29:03 <andythenorth> anything is better than current :) 20:29:25 <frosch123> aircraft would only cover express and armored, but not all cargos 20:29:29 * andythenorth is thinking of how many times Kamnet has posted 'but make sure you get a vehicle grf' 20:29:35 <andythenorth> save Kamnet! 20:29:39 <andythenorth> make Kamnet great again 20:29:52 <frosch123> andythenorth: that won't stop 20:30:40 <frosch123> why is the potato van named coal van, and why is it loaded with black cargo? fix the graphics! 20:31:03 *** D-HUND is now known as debdog 20:31:05 *** gelignite has quit IRC 20:31:13 <frosch123> if you make the default vehicles refittable to all cargos, you make the game playable, but new players will still be confused about names and sprites 20:31:15 <Timberwolf> Hurrah, cursed savegame! https://i.imgur.com/bqiuGM7.png 20:32:01 <frosch123> Timberwolf: aircraft refitted to coal in TTD, loaded in OTTD and no longer refittable? 20:32:03 <andythenorth> I think name confusion is a lesser evil :) 20:32:08 <Timberwolf> Exactly. 20:32:30 <Timberwolf> It also did some funky things converting the speed from TTD down to an OpenTTD game with planespeed. 20:33:07 <andythenorth> an alternative idea is to detect if no grf is loaded for vehicle <type> 20:33:16 <andythenorth> then add classes to default wagons if it isn't 20:33:25 <andythenorth> but that has to be done correctly by every industry grf 20:34:00 <andythenorth> seems like the client should try to help the situation, not rely on every grf trying to fix it? 20:34:04 <Timberwolf> Fastest LB-3 ever! https://i.imgur.com/zKgRbc8.png 20:34:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/BaNaNaS] frosch123 opened pull request #95: Change: migrate OpenTTD user rsprta to GitHub user radek-sprta https://git.io/J3enQ 20:36:52 <frosch123> andythenorth: so 3 options: (1) do nothing (2) change default refittability and transform bug reports into "vehicle name is wrong" (3) make ottd display a warning in game start (which noone will read) 20:37:30 <frosch123> ah, spanish inquisition. 4 options: (4) accept that new players will always find something confusing, and stop trying to please them 20:39:38 <andythenorth> (5) whitelist in FIRS, try to get XIS and AuzInd to downstream it 20:40:09 <frosch123> (6) add a new economy "default TTD industries" to firs, and make it the default 20:40:18 <frosch123> then add a questionaire to the newgrf parameters 20:43:57 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 20:43:57 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 20:44:33 <Timberwolf> (7) remake FIRS in 2x, no-one wishes to admit to using 2x graphics in public, no more bug reports. 20:44:39 <Timberwolf> (Disclaimer: not 100% effective) 20:44:57 <andythenorth> I like 6 20:46:40 <nielsm> with 6 now you get bug reports that players added FIRS and nothing changed 20:46:56 <_dp_> add coin miner to firs by default, at least ppl will pay for asking stupid questions instead of reading docs 20:50:54 *** tokai has quit IRC 20:53:32 <andythenorth> the most player friendly is probably 20:54:10 <andythenorth> FIRS combo: (1) whitelist known grfs (2) if no known grfs found, change classes on default vehicles (3) parameter to disable default vehicle meddling 20:54:12 <andythenorth> but eh 20:54:35 <andythenorth> classes in the client seems maybe better :P 21:06:28 <andythenorth> such bedtime 21:06:29 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 21:11:23 <Timberwolf> Such "are you going to draw a boat this evening or what?" time. 21:12:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 opened pull request #9123: Fix: missing <limits> include in network/core/packet.h https://git.io/J3eRI 21:15:09 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:18:12 *** peter1138 has joined #openttd 21:18:12 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o peter1138 21:18:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #9123: Fix: missing <limits> include in network/core/packet.h https://git.io/J3e0z 21:20:03 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #9123: Fix: missing <limits> include in network/core/packet.h https://git.io/J3eEX 21:20:03 *** Samu has quit IRC 21:20:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 commented on pull request #9123: Fix: missing <limits> include in network/core/packet.h https://git.io/J3eE5 21:22:15 <LordAro> milek7: James is right, you shouldn't remove bits of the template just because you think they're obvious ;) 21:26:37 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:46:26 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 opened pull request #9124: Codechange: Use __attribute__ access none to silence GCC 11 -Wmaybe-uninitialized warnings https://git.io/J3eaW 21:51:05 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:53:53 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #9124: Codechange: Use __attribute__ access none to silence GCC 11 -Wmaybe-uninitialized warnings https://git.io/J3eVM 21:56:01 <peter1138> Urgh, I can't seem to make this window shrink :/ 22:06:03 *** nielsm has quit IRC 22:11:49 <TrueBrain> Tries the resize icon? 22:11:52 <TrueBrain> :D 22:11:59 <TrueBrain> Ttrrrroooollllliiiinnnnggggg 22:12:31 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:20:45 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 22:22:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #9123: Fix: missing <limits> include in network/core/packet.h https://git.io/J3eRI 22:22:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #9124: Codechange: Use __attribute__ access none to silence GCC 11 -Wmaybe-uninitialized warnings https://git.io/J3ePn 22:41:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] juanicarcamo opened issue #9125: Bug Report https://git.io/J3eDe 22:42:26 <glx> reading is really the issue 22:44:15 <glx> ah this one is probably related to bootloader 22:45:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #9125: Bug Report https://git.io/J3eDe 22:46:51 <LordAro> glx: so 8969? 22:48:44 <TrueBrain> Can't believe the new templates aren't working .. lol :D 22:49:13 <glx> 8967 22:50:10 <glx> C:\Users\JUANIG~1\AppData\Local\Temp\Rar$EXa6096.37913\openttd-1.11.1-windows-win64\openttd.exe <-- running it directly from the zip opened with winrar ? 22:50:25 <glx> some users are crazy 22:52:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #9125: Bug Report https://git.io/J3eDe 22:52:59 <LordAro> nice 22:53:20 <glx> very similar crash.log 22:54:10 <glx> basically we have 2 kinds of crashes, but both have probably the same root cause 22:55:55 <glx> and of course nobody tries the nightly when it's asked 22:59:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] glx22 commented on issue #203: [pt_BR] Translator access request https://git.io/J3eJs 23:28:53 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 23:32:43 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 23:36:01 *** supermop_Home has quit IRC