Log for #openttd on 15th May 2021:
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00:11:42  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 commented on pull request #9126: D3D11 video driver
00:13:34  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 updated pull request #9126: D3D11 video driver
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00:45:18  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 updated pull request #9126: D3D11 video driver
00:54:36  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 updated pull request #9126: D3D11 video driver
01:08:59  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 updated pull request #9126: D3D11 video driver
01:53:45  <milek7> I'm interested if it would run on vista ;P
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06:42:40  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 updated pull request #9235: Fix some of the warnings from LGTM
06:42:43  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 updated pull request #9228: Change: Use gender-neutral pronouns
06:42:46  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 updated pull request #9266: Codechange: use std::string in network chat
06:42:49  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 dismissed a review for pull request #9266: Codechange: use std::string in network chat
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07:44:19  <andythenorth> yo
07:55:10  <LordAro> o/
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08:15:16  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #9235: Fix some of the warnings from LGTM
08:16:15  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 merged pull request #9235: Fix some of the warnings from LGTM
08:16:25  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #9228: Change: Use gender-neutral pronouns
08:16:51  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 merged pull request #9228: Change: Use gender-neutral pronouns
08:17:14  <Rubidium> lets hope those did not conflict with #9266 like the previous ones did ;)
08:17:55  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #9266: Codechange: use std::string in network chat
08:20:54  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 merged pull request #9266: Codechange: use std::string in network chat
08:21:47  <Rubidium> LordAro: thanks for the reviews! Now I can rebase some more things for review... when I figured out #9267
08:23:39  <LordAro> :)
08:34:19  <peter1138> Urgh, I think I'll need to break this one down :(
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09:35:55  <Rubidium> I'm trying to trace/figure out #9267, and I've got some eery feeling it has to do with a destructor getting called when it shouldn't. So I made a set with all the pointers of the object that's created, i.e. via all the given constructors, but in the destructor it still finds objects that it hasn't seen in the constructor. So, what other ways to construct an object are there? I've already have
09:36:01  <Rubidium> SQObjectPtr() {..}, SQObjectPtr(const SQObjectPtr &) {..}, SQObjectPtr(SQObjectPtr&&)=delete, any many constructors with other paramaters. But not of those constructors get called for that object that gets destructed, so am I still missing any of the default constructors?
09:36:23  <Rubidium> or is this rather a sign that a constructor has not been called when it should have been?
09:39:18  <nielsm> it sounds like an object not being properly constructed, but if it's a non-virtual destructor it could also be an invalid cast ending up calling a wrong destructor
09:50:52  <Rubidium> ofcourse... it's "just" a memmove ;(
09:51:09  <Rubidium> or realloc
09:54:40  <peter1138> Interesting for scaling. OpenGFX's "X" icon is 7x8 pixels at 1x zoom, but 20x20 pixels at 2x zoom.
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10:34:47  <andythenorth> peter1138 goes it redraw?
10:37:02  <LordAro> is there a penalty for loading speed when a train station is too small?
10:37:40  <nielsm> if the train is longer than the station yes
10:38:13  <LordAro> interesting
10:38:15  <LordAro> TIL
10:38:35  <LordAro> just watched a train spend ages filling up
10:41:50  <nielsm> thinking about it, if onlt
10:42:14  <nielsm> if only cars without cargo capacity stick out (e.g. trailing locos) then maybe there shouldn't be a penalty
10:50:49  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on issue #9267: Heap use after free in Squirrel delayed memory deallocation when AI deallocated
11:03:32  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 updated pull request #9126: D3D11 video driver
11:15:26  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 opened issue #9269: Assertion failed when trying to change refresh rate.
11:22:43  <TrueBrain> <- we need presets :P
11:24:46  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 updated pull request #9126: D3D11 video driver
11:44:27  <peter1138> Hmm
11:54:16  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 updated pull request #9126: D3D11 video driver
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12:19:41  <_dp_> nielsm, it's fine as it is, adding capacity into the mix would only complicate it for no good reason
12:49:20  <frosch123> <- someone played too much factorio
12:49:33  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] frosch123 commented on issue #216: [sv_SE] Translator access request
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13:02:49  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] frosch123 opened pull request #50: Render http://... and https:// as <a> in the weblogs.
13:11:13  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 updated pull request #9126: D3D11 video driver
13:32:54  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 updated pull request #9126: D3D11 video driver
13:52:44  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #9270: Fix #9269, f6d5c01: Skip invalid windows when checking z-priority
14:07:33  <frosch123> huh, what window has WC_INVALID as class?
14:07:52  <glx> dropdown after selection
14:09:08  <glx>
14:12:14  <frosch123> hmm ~PickerWindowBase looks scary
14:13:08  <frosch123> and so is ProcessScheduledInvalidations
14:13:20  <frosch123> uff...
14:25:33  <glx> oh I linked the wrong this->window_class = WC_INVALID
14:26:31  <glx> it's
14:33:08  <frosch123> i guess it's time for shared_ptr :)
14:34:43  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #9270: Fix #9269, f6d5c01: Skip invalid windows when checking z-priority
14:40:30  <glx> something like /* Dropdowns and Pickers use WC_INVALID to hide themselves until deletion. */ ?
14:41:18  <frosch123> sounds good
14:43:52  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #9270: Fix #9269, f6d5c01: Skip invalid windows when checking z-priority
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14:51:50  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 approved pull request #9270: Fix #9269, f6d5c01: Skip invalid windows when checking z-priority
15:00:20  <glx> hmm I wonder if we could just replace the "this->window_class = WC_INVALID" with "*this->z_position = nullptr"
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15:04:05  <frosch123> i guess that works for the dropdown
15:04:14  <frosch123> i am not yet sure about PickerWindowBase
15:04:35  <frosch123> and the ProcessScheduledInvalidations definitely needs something else
15:05:08  <frosch123> ah, yeah for PickerWindowBase the z_position thingie also works
15:05:18  <frosch123> the point is that ResetObjectToPlace should not find it
15:05:35  <glx> yeah ProcessScheduledInvalidations break check feels wrong
15:06:01  <frosch123> now we actually free the window
15:06:16  <frosch123> so when OnInvalidateData does a delete, ProcessScheduledInvalidations has an invalid this
15:07:30  <glx> I guess address sanitizer should detect that
15:07:38  <frosch123> i guess ProcessScheduledInvalidations should also use a regular window iterator, and then recheck the iterator after each OnInvaildateData
15:09:34  <glx> hmm OnInvalidateData() could return a bool, true if window is deleted
15:10:13  <glx> then ProcessScheduledInvalidations can return directly
15:10:40  <frosch123> in that case you could also return true as request to delete it, so it does not have top call delete itself
15:11:18  <frosch123> grep gives a lot of results for "delete this" though :p
15:12:24  <glx> then UpdateWindows also needs to check ProcessScheduledInvalidations return because there's w->ProcessHighlightedInvalidations() following
15:12:58  <glx> another invalid read
15:13:28  <frosch123> or two loops
15:13:45  <frosch123> but yeah, UpdateWindows has no idea what calls may result in deleting themself :p
15:14:12  <frosch123> that was already wrong before
15:14:27  <frosch123> calling ProcessHighlightedInvalidations on an already destructed (but not yet freed) window
15:14:31  <glx> but before the deletion was delayed
15:14:35  <frosch123> but super non-obvious :p
15:14:59  <frosch123> doing stuff with destructed things is not much better
15:16:03  <frosch123> it iteates over the nested widgets, which are already freed
15:17:42  <frosch123> it's just super rare to have a window deleted by a schedules OnInvalidate while a widget is highlighted at the same time :p
15:17:51  <frosch123> the latter is only used by the tutorial GS, right?
15:18:07  <glx> I think yes
15:23:52  <glx> trying my idea (many changes to do)
15:33:51  <glx> so many self deleting windows
15:34:28  <frosch123> yep, most GUI frameworks have some kind of "deleteLater" :)
15:34:36  <frosch123> or, at least those i used
15:59:35  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] vituscze opened pull request #9271: Fix: Encountering two-way red signals could prune unrelated branches.
16:03:41  <glx> 46 files changed
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16:22:07  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 opened pull request #9272: Codechange: [Network] Use std::string for client and company name
16:22:10  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 opened pull request #9273: Codechange: [Network] Use std::string for admin name and version
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16:46:17  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 updated pull request #9272: Codechange: [Network] Use std::string for client and company name
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17:12:29  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 dismissed a review for pull request #9270: Fixes for window handling changes from f6d5c01
17:12:32  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #9270: Fixes for window handling changes from f6d5c01
17:12:44  <glx> highjacked my PR :)
17:31:27  <glx> and I think it may not be the ideal solution, as I think I must also check if InvalidateData() self deletes the window
17:38:31  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #9270: Fixes for window handling changes from f6d5c01
17:39:34  <frosch123> poof, everything gone again
17:39:42  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #9270: Fixes for window handling changes from f6d5c01
17:40:19  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 approved pull request #9270: Fixes for window handling changes from f6d5c01
17:40:56  <glx> I think the best solution is to replace delete this with a call that hides them and put them in a to delete vector
17:42:46  <glx> if you want to read the old version I have a backup on
17:43:09  <frosch123> i read it. just finished, when you deleted it :p
17:43:44  <frosch123> but yes, a "DeleteLater" would make stuff more clear, and less fragile
17:44:00  <glx> I really think all the changes are half of the work to do, so clearly not the best way
18:09:54  <peter1138> Yes, I was thinking "delete later" when I was reading it.
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18:44:45  <LordAro> Window *later; delete later;
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19:05:48  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
19:05:49  <DorpsGek>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
19:06:03  <peter1138> Exactly that.
19:06:37  <frosch123> <- we need Xaroth to port ottd to qt
19:07:12  <FLHerne> Then all the grfs can be in QML, and everyone will be happy
19:08:53  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #9270: Fixes for window handling changes from f6d5c01
19:08:56  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 closed issue #9269: Assertion failed when trying to change refresh rate.
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19:30:04  <tortal> Can someone explain non-stop regarding buses. I understand that non-stop will simply go exactly as speciied in the order. But will buses take detours without the non-stop ?... For instance if I have some bus stops that are very close to the route the bus is driving, will the bus make "smart" detours to collect passengers? Or must the the stops lie exactly on the road that the bus drives
19:30:04  <tortal> throught
19:30:37  <LordAro> the latter
19:30:45  <tortal> thx
19:30:59  <LordAro> (just means that buses/vehicles will stop at whatever station they happen to encounter)
19:32:57  <tortal> I did play TTD back in the days. Really amazed to see what has been done. Too bad the original authors don't make money. They aren't blizzard - squeezing every buck they can. From what I heard they still drop expansions to WoW... Either way back to openttd. I was thinking about the multiplayer part. Is it possible to play this game multiplayer with a friend now when we have buys lives? Like
19:32:57  <tortal> HOMM3/5. Can one login, do some work, then logout. do so asynchronously and still get some enjoyment of playing together ?
19:33:54  <LordAro> for sure
19:34:18  <LordAro> there's a "pause when no clients" setting somewhere, which if you use a dedicated server might be appropriate
19:34:23  <Xaroth> frosch123: I'm crazy but I'm not insane.
19:34:35  <Xaroth> If you want insane, talk to TrueBrain.
19:34:51  <tortal> oh great. I guess there is a linux server and all? just fire up a VPS and we are good to go ?
19:35:33  <LordAro> tortal: that's an option, for sure
19:37:02  <FLHerne> tortal: I'd recommend only ever using "non-stop" orders
19:37:15  <frosch123> Xaroth: but tb hates guis
19:37:25  <tortal> you mean to only use non-stop for everything ? I noticed it was default
19:37:27  <FLHerne> implicit stops cause all sorts of confusion, and don't reliably do anything much
19:38:14  <Xaroth> frosch123: The trick is to get tb to do something adjacent to the GUI stuff, he'll get frustrated enough that he wants to take it out back and strangle it..... and then suggest replacing it with QT.
19:39:02  <peter1138> QT can FOAD
19:49:54  <tortal> Is there any faster way to close windows rather than clicking the 'X' ?
19:50:06  <nielsm> Del on the keyboard closes everything
19:50:20  <nielsm> backspace also closes everything
19:51:03  <tortal> Awesome. An aawesome thing would also to allow closing windows bu using middle mouse button anyway on the window. That way one could be selective - don
19:51:10  <tortal> don't know if that is desirable tho
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19:55:24  <frosch123> there is also a right-mouse-button close
19:55:30  <frosch123> no idea whether it is on by default
19:55:30  <andythenorth> hmm
19:55:38  <frosch123> there are different options for the behavior of RMB
19:55:43  <andythenorth> been re-writing some grf automation for a week
19:55:55  <andythenorth> now have a _lot_ less code than I started with
20:04:51  <tortal> Sorry to pop in, but im curious: what does GRF stand for? I keep seeing it.
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20:06:53  <tortal> also, can someone recommend a nice music pack. e has weird volume drops/spikes. Also some tracks feel like they are actually two tracks playing the same time. I do like the MIDI-touch. So maybe there are some good music packs
20:07:05  <tortal> The modern Motion has wierd..*
20:08:25  <frosch123> grf is a backronym for game resource file
20:08:29  <frosch123> it's our mod format
20:09:03  <frosch123> <- more info
20:10:54  <tortal> thanks. The amount of resouces and community spirit is pretty amazing - very rare these days. I guess it is thanks to the open, flexible nature of openttd. Only the fact that what is being modded is a open source version itself makes it easier obviously. But without people to add content.. well.. But it takes two to tango i guess. Simply amazing.
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20:12:42  <tortal> frosch123: found that setting - as you said, wasn't default
20:13:25  <tortal> Maybe a lot of the settings are trying to be true to the original or something.
20:13:39  <frosch123> no :p
20:13:44  <tortal> :>
20:13:53  <frosch123> there are just many opinions
20:14:17  <tortal> Well. then I think close on right click definitely should be default ^^
20:14:21  <frosch123> smartphone players prefer different controls than pc players and so on
20:14:39  <frosch123> tortal: exactly, *you* think that :p
20:14:45  <tortal> oh riiite. they have it on app-version as well. isn't that funky.
20:14:49  <frosch123> but RMB is also usable in other ways
20:15:12  <frosch123> it can show additional tooltips in depot
20:15:18  <frosch123> it is used for scrolling
20:15:27  <frosch123> pretty sure there is more :p
20:15:42  <frosch123> in the end, it's just hotkeys
20:15:44  <peter1138> It should clearly close the main viewport...
20:15:47  <frosch123> some of them are configureable, some are not
20:16:09  <tortal> well well.. what i think matters the most didn't you know ;>. Also, you seem to agree since you have that setting hue hue
20:16:34  <frosch123> no, it actually annoyed me
20:20:52  <tortal> always smth isn't it. Either way, the app-version is identical, at least in the sense of being a client for opentdd gameplay? So either desktop and app can join the same server for a game
20:21:52  <peter1138> What "app-version"?
20:22:25  <tortal> iOS/android
20:22:53  <peter1138> Oh, nothing to do wtih us, no idea if it's compatible.
20:23:13  <tortal> oh oh. ok i got the impression there was an openttd for smartphone
20:23:26  <glx> there is, but not by us
20:23:54  <tortal> So someone forked openttd to relase it on smartphones
20:25:01  <LordAro> my understanding is that it's compatible
20:25:07  <LordAro> but obviously we have no control over it
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20:27:06  <tortal> Well. why obviously. Sharing is caring. What about FOSS/copyleft spirit? How is openttd licensed btw.
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20:30:07  <tortal> Im thinking that whoever that forked the project shouldn't be able to make money for starters.. also it ia pity that person isn't truly part of the community. I don't know for sure. But judging from your answers the projects seem.. disconnected.
20:30:29  <LordAro> i wasn't aware that they were making any money out of it
20:30:51  <LordAro> not that it matters anyway, GPL allows people to sell the stuff, as long as they still publish the sources
20:30:54  <LordAro> which they do
20:30:57  <tortal> I have idea. I only mean that copyleft would at least guarantee that.
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20:31:53  <tortal> or that.. Well. Basically someone could make a lot of money on everyones hard work. that would implictly include all the modd:ers hard work
20:32:17  <LordAro> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
20:32:30  <LordAro> the decision to go with GPL(v2) was made long ago, and not by any of us
20:32:39  <LordAro> and it can't be changed now
20:32:42  <tortal> wait until it is relased on oculus rift :D
20:33:55  <andythenorth_> GL to the person who wants the OpenTTD revenue
20:35:16  <Xaroth> all your $$$ are belong to me.
20:36:16  <peter1138> There's a Windows store version that is sold for money.
20:36:44  <tortal> well. there is money in a smartphone version for sure. also being gpl someone could just fork it today.. add some cosmetic wiii and waa.. as well as ads. Foerever all mods released will also be relased on the forked version.. with very little modification the maintainer would be able to "port" the udpates made to openttd as well
20:36:52  <tortal> peter1138 that is crazy :|.. bad bad.
20:37:02  <peter1138> Why? GPL doesn't prevent it.
20:37:11  <tortal> i mean. that isn't even another platform.
20:37:32  <Rubidium> you just request the source code, and then release it for free
20:37:33  <peter1138> It's out of date, and there's an official version instead which is free, so I imagine their revenue dried up.
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20:38:22  <Rubidium> it's not that people make money with the Linux kernel, they make the money on supporting others using it
20:38:30  <tortal> well, it is possible to make a mod that is non-gpl. That is more restrictive. And that mod would be the base on which all other mods and (most) updates are amde
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20:39:23  <Rubidium> except that the mod then would be in breach of GPL, thus illegal
20:39:31  <tortal> of course. that is a long shot to achieve some GNU-like license. But it would at least keep the modders work to the community only
20:39:52  <tortal> is it really a breach to release a non-gpl mod ? we aren't changin source code now
20:41:18  <LordAro> we're talking about different things here - we generally use 'mod' to describge modifications to the game itself
20:41:39  <LordAro> rather than 'grf'/'script'/'whatever' for ingame content
20:41:40  <Rubidium> if it's OpenTTD, then it's not a mod. It's derived work. If it's a NewGRF/AI/..., then that's completely separate from OpenTTD and just running on OpenTTD
20:41:51  <tortal> ah well. i was thinking about these "newGRF". I'm not sure hoe they are written
20:42:40  <tortal> yeah. refering to what people add as pluggable mods. not what people change in source
20:44:27  <tortal> I mean, taking it to the extreme, a lot of changes could be extrapolated to mods im guessing. It would basically be a mod "running all the time".. just for the sake of skipping the GPL
20:46:46  <Rubidium> that still doesn't remove GPL from the core game
20:47:17  <tortal> no. but it would stop windows store dude to make money on all extra game assets
20:50:01  <Rubidium> it wouldn't, if that person complies with GPL then anything would be possible. I could even charge a millions for just the game with the readme and license, and everything would be fine when I also provide the information on how to get the source code
20:52:30  <Rubidium> and for all the other things they might want to package, they have to comply with the respective licenses
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20:56:44  <tortal> Yeah. well you are right. My thinking was a bit convoluted. I was basically thinking that one would change the game in such way that one could release "GNU-mods" to it.
21:02:05  <tortal> Is there any point to contribute to multiplayers online ? Like with hosting etc.
21:02:53  <tortal> 40 cores and 512gb ram servers just waiting to be used... :)
21:03:13  <glx> only one core is used for the game :)
21:03:38  <tortal> don't worry. just bragging with what i have ^^
21:03:57  <frosch123> there are enough servers, which are "just hosted". but there are very few servers with "effort in the game setup"
21:04:08  <tortal> but either way. really like this openttd community. so any way one could contribute..
21:04:33  <tortal> oh. well i hardly know how to play the game :)
21:06:20  <frosch123> <- 50% of servers are empty, 25% have one client, ...
21:08:03  <tortal> much like IRC then
21:09:53  <tortal> sorry. 40 threads of course. not cores ..  10 cores. can't lie.
21:10:36  <peter1138> quad threads these days?
21:11:09  <tortal> to be specific yeah
21:11:59  <tortal> don't know if it's considered "quad".
21:12:02  <peter1138> Oh, 2013.
21:12:06  <peter1138> It says 20 threads, so...
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21:12:18  <tortal> hmm.. wait a second.
21:12:29  <peter1138> I'm sure you know what you have :p
21:12:53  <tortal> haha.  this is one of the servers..
21:12:54  <peter1138> Likely dual CPU as it's E5, so 2 x 10 cores.
21:13:06  <tortal> got a full room
21:13:12  <tortal> im not the hardware guy
21:13:14  <peter1138> But who cares, just a server.
21:13:28  <tortal> running a IPTV/ISP company
21:15:53  <tortal> ooh yeah. that one is apparently running two of those CPUs
21:16:56  <glx> <-- that's a lot of window self closing (most were safe I guess)
21:17:31  <tortal> yeah. who cares. most people desktops are more expensive than that server for instance
21:17:53  <Xaroth> with the current GPU prices that's not difficult :P
21:18:08  <glx> when GPUs are available
21:18:55  <peter1138> this->Close() would be nicer.
21:20:08  <peter1138> Like, there's probably no need to distinguish between self-closed and otherwise closed.
21:20:33  <tortal> _when_, indeed. one can't even built a desktop no matter how much one is willing to pay
21:20:37  <glx> yeah otherwise it's just a plain deletion
21:22:37  <peter1138> I'd say close all windows the same way, let the system delete.
21:23:10  <tortal> openttd seem to drink a lot GPU. I mean, i'm glad it has hardware aceleration. but why am i at 20-30% according to task manager? the GPY is maybe 4-5 yrs old.
21:23:14  <peter1138> And it could just be a window flag rather than another vector.
21:23:34  <peter1138> tortal, becuase it's a CPU-bound game.
21:24:00  <tortal> What does that mean? I don't get it.
21:24:33  <peter1138> On eating, GPU. What GPU?
21:25:00  <tortal> Radeon RX 580
21:25:16  <peter1138> Radeon tend to have very shit OpenGL drivers.
21:25:19  <peter1138> So could be that.
21:25:42  <glx> only visible windows are stored in _z_window, because now window deletion is immediate, so closed windows to be deleted need to be stored somewhere
21:26:55  <tortal> I can run xcom2, civ5, dark souls at seemingly full fps.openttd doesn't strike me as very GPU-intensive.. it is an isometric, pixelart game.. is there even 3D involced at all ?
21:28:06  <glx> try disabling full animation (mainly the water)
21:29:17  <glx> but really openttd doesn't use GPU intensively
21:29:46  <tortal> how do i change that setting ? i searched..
21:29:47  <glx> everything is drawn by CPU then pushed to GPU
21:30:11  <tortal> yeah. openttd doesn't seem to do much geometry and floating-point calculations. which i alreays thought opengl was about
21:30:41  <glx> in game, it's somewhere in option drop menu
21:31:31  <tortal> oh yeah. dropped from 35% to 15-18%
21:31:48  <tortal> this is specific to the process tho
21:31:53  <glx> radeon shaders are not very good it seems :)
21:32:06  <tortal> oh yeah, blame the GPU
21:32:50  <tortal> it's fine for mining bitcoins. playing latest 3d games. but not openttd hell no
21:33:17  <Rubidium> yeah, we do ;) The more recent GPUs removed support for palettes, so the palette animations got much slower than they used to be on old hardware
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21:33:36  <tortal> interesting
21:37:47  <tortal> baffled with people that do opengl. it's black magic imo
21:38:01  <Rubidium> after all, what game/program that people want to pay a lot of money for use palette animation nowadays? So just use the silicon for something people want to pay for, and implement palette animation in the video card driver
21:39:16  <glx> nvidia GTS450, GPU usage is less than 3% :)
21:40:46  <tortal> s
21:41:06  <tortal> -s. weird. the gts450 is outperformed according to this comparison
21:41:43  <tortal> i guess they don't have the "OpenTTD"-benchmark
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21:43:33  <tortal> what is the Silicone? You mean they could have the palette animation interface to make use of the silicone-thingie ?
21:43:38  <glx> I think AMD is better at directX than opengl
21:45:56  <glx> we received crash reports inside the ATI/AMD opengl driver
21:50:07  <tortal> meaning what ? that openttd has problems, or that amd has problems?
21:50:10  <peter1138> gts 450? yikes, 11 years old ...
21:50:29  <tortal>  old is the new new
21:53:15  <tortal> openttd; what should be possible is to hold for a modifier, ALT for instance, then click and hold to move a window around. Just like default settings for ubuntus gnome
21:53:45  <peter1138> And what happens if you are playing OpenTTD on Ubuntu?
21:54:08  <tortal> well, i would still make sense :P
21:54:44  <peter1138> Which window would it move? OpenTTD, or a window within OpenTTD?
21:55:16  <tortal> the window within. but this modifier could be different and it would be possible to change it obviously..
21:55:35  <peter1138> What about on Windows, where your average user has no expectation of how alt-drag behaves?
21:57:23  <peter1138> Hmm, my RGB LED strip is broken in such a way that it looks kinda cool.
21:57:35  <tortal> I don't know - I'm figuring that all interaction within a game is specific to the game/application. Shouldn't neccessarily anbd generally coincide with the OS behavior either way.
21:58:09  <glx> many new players already have issues with the interactions :)
21:58:10  <tortal> of course, a game involving windopws is different. but one can't think of everything. then one would need to take tiling managers as well
21:58:18  <tortal> in to account*
21:58:52  <tortal> hehe, nah not issues. i'm just really happy i found that right-click-to-close option
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21:59:51  <glx> keep press for dropdown is one of the common issues
22:00:22  <glx> and we use it everywhere in the main toolbar :)
22:00:58  <_dp_> how often do you even move windows in openttd for it to require a hotkey?
22:01:59  <tortal> glx: I found it pretty instantly. Don't remember if is muscle memory from the original but no issues here...
22:02:21  <glx> but you played the original version ;)
22:02:22  <_dp_> alt is much better be used as building modifier
22:04:02  <tortal> is it possible to freely set resolution ? I'm guessing most play the game windowed. I don't see the option in normal settings
22:06:38  <tortal> Also, my eye sight isn't the best. so scaling up certain parts would be great. Like if it were possible to have fonts somewhere between double and quaduple
22:06:46  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #9274: Fix f6d5c01: Delay deletion for self closing windows
22:07:06  <glx> you can resize the window ;)
22:07:17  <tortal> glx: awesome :P
22:07:29  <tortal> didn't think *outside* the box
22:08:26  <glx> for fonts, you can set them, and their size, in the config file
22:08:48  <peter1138> I have a patch for arbitrary scaling but it's majorly incomplete.
22:09:22  <tortal> that would be awesome peter1138
22:09:29  <glx> we really miss a font selection GUI, but UI is a pain in openttd :)
22:09:55  <tortal> haha yeah it is. most things are actually
22:09:59  <glx> and worse in font case as it must work on all platforms
22:11:38  <glx> I remember there was a patch somewhere for windows
22:12:16  <tortal> I could fire up a x server and run it from WSL (window subsystem for linux)
22:12:33  <glx> yes that works
22:12:59  <tortal> might not get the hardware acceleration.. not sure. but ryzen 6-core should manage
22:13:00  <glx> and it will be easier in next WSL version
22:13:28  <tortal> why is that
22:13:47  <Xaroth> Upgrades :D
22:14:27  <tortal> that much i also figured :>. just curious about specifically which upgrade would benefit openttd ^^
22:15:58  <tortal> btw, is there a way to quickly clone a vehicle that im looking at - with orders and all
22:16:08  <Xaroth> clone button in depot
22:16:11  <Xaroth> click train you're looking at
22:16:24  <Xaroth> hold ctrl to make them share orders, otherwise it just copies orders.
22:16:51  <tortal> thx. got busses but i guess that will do. I was hoping there were a way to do it on a bus on the road
22:18:30  <glx> <-- that's the most wanted WSL2 feature ;)
22:18:41  <peter1138> You can only build from a depot, so there's a clone button there. You can ctrl-click on a bus in the viewport.
22:18:44  <glx> and that's why I said it will be easier
22:20:11  <tortal> OH. ok. stupid me i only assumed the clone button would clone some bus already in the deopt :|
22:20:22  <Xaroth> qit can
22:20:30  <Xaroth> but.. also ones not in the depot
22:20:41  <glx> it clones whatever you are clicking after the button
22:20:56  <peter1138> I wanna clone a UFO.
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22:21:22  <tortal> yes.  im getting too much help here.. when playing tihs game as 15 yr old one didn't have irc to help one out. same goes with larry, polic quest, and all other crazy games
22:21:53  <glx> many features were absent too ;)
22:22:23  <tortal> i guess. SO COOL this game. OpenTTD is so awesome
22:25:00  <tortal> "CoronaAI".. the pandemic had its perks as well i guess
22:25:52  <frosch123> someone wrote that while in isolation due to treatment
22:28:05  <tortal> "will try to spread [...] to all cities, I just uses buses." - Isn't that enigmatic
22:30:51  <FLHerne> tortal: I bet there was a TTD IRC channel then too
22:31:22  <glx> or a BBS
22:31:22  <tortal> peter1138: I'm guessing that means there is a scifi mod. Which is actually pretty cool. Reminds me of alpha centauri, the game. I'm guessing also that there is a nice mod which simply adds transportation vehicles and crafts _after_ the normal timelime in which new stuff is added in-game ?
22:32:14  <glx> no UFO are in base game
22:32:20  <glx> they are disasters
22:32:42  <tortal> ah shit. well ok . not "UFO" the strict definition then. but flying saucers and crap.
22:34:12  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #9274: Fix f6d5c01: Delay deletion for self closing windows
22:35:23  <tortal> Problem is that few had Internet connection back then.  I remember that general game information was scarce and traveled mouth-to-mouth
22:35:45  <tortal> Magazines... One would actually pay to get information on coming releasses
22:42:04  <tortal> Back to the sounds. First of all, OpenMSX is great. Gotta love that nostalgia.. Secondly, i really understand why the "NoSound" sound pack is default. Switching on sound effects was horrible.
22:47:12  <tortal> Ooh, just discovered the tab button...Also, extra thanks to Freddan thad made the Sweden Scenario. Moreover, I'm definitely adding this irc server and channel to znc. i can come and harass you anytime now
22:48:13  <glx> ah the fast forward shortcut
22:49:42  <tortal> YEs! First i was annoyed about the pause button. That is the classic pause button for baldurs gate, FTL... etc. But didn't dare to mention it. I figured there would be some very convincing argument against it. But found at least the tab button which was a nice surprise
22:49:52  <tortal> space *
22:50:17  <glx> pause is on F1 too
22:50:48  <tortal> Cool. The tab button even works while moving the map which is a nice touch
22:50:49  <glx> basically function keys should match the main toolbar IIRC
22:53:41  <tortal> 250mb memory usage now. I'm *pretty* sure the original didn't take that much :P
22:53:58  <glx> what's the map size ?
22:54:14  <tortal> How does one check
22:54:15  <michi_cc> Also, a lot of that will be the 4x zoomed sprites.
22:54:29  <tortal> It was the sweden scenario
22:55:07  <tortal> 4x zoomed sprites? you mean the scaling because of the resolution ?
22:56:15  <tortal> (whaddaya know, openttd has its own console and everything!)
22:56:36  <glx> oh you found the ` key
22:57:30  <tortal> now i did. I found it in the drop down
22:58:41  <tortal> gotta love the 'x' hotkey
22:59:36  <tortal> glx: 1024*2048 map size
22:59:55  <glx> quite big :)
23:03:16  <glx> map itself is ~25MB
23:07:42  <tortal> about 128 bytes per map pizel :D
23:08:07  <glx> 12 bytes per tile ;)
23:08:33  <tortal> well. it is cheap i guess
23:08:44  <tortal> doesn't even make sense
23:12:49  <tortal> so that thing for VI that only existed in the linux version - does it come in the vanilla openttd ?
23:15:02  <tortal> peter1138, glx ?
23:18:25  <FLHerne> tortal: "VI" ?
23:19:19  <FLHerne> I don't think upstream OTTD has any platform-specific features
23:19:58  <FLHerne> (well, user-visible ones -- there are various renderers etc)
23:22:35  <tortal> Visual impairment
23:23:38  <tortal> like, visual aids of different kinds. Got the impression earlier that there was something in the linux version that the windows version lacked
23:24:37  <tortal> It is difficult for me to see small text and icons etc
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23:25:05  <FLHerne> You can set 'interface size' to double or quad in Game Options
23:25:58  <FLHerne> 'font size' ditto
23:26:09  <tortal> Thanks, yes i found those settings. We were discusing more fine grained options. Like setting a a custom scaling for instance. The quaduple fills the whole screen basically
23:26:22  <frosch123>
23:26:56  <tortal> that's cool. will try it
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23:53:17  <tortal> oh there we go! After some fiddling... good to know - maybe should be in the wiki more clearly as well - it says one must specify font in order to change size. In the settings it is blank on which font to pick. Basically one is forced to choose a font. So I had to google the M$ font reference way. (e.g. MSREF1 is one) - then change size. Also, max size is 72. (i.e. it changes it to 72 for
23:53:17  <tortal> any value > 72)
23:54:21  <tortal> funky:
23:55:32  <tortal> Nevermind. it actually says in the wiki pretty clearly. i just missed it ^^
23:56:14  <tortal> Not easy to read stuff on the Internet when you see 10 rows of text a time :p

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