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00:16:18 <peter1138> originally it was separate arrays, like how the map is saved. 00:48:00 *** Progman has quit IRC 01:12:13 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 01:32:36 <peter1138> https://binji.github.io/posts/pokegb/ 01:56:53 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 02:37:15 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 02:40:43 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 02:40:43 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 02:47:25 *** tokai has quit IRC 02:54:02 *** glx has quit IRC 04:11:47 *** OsteHovel_ is now known as OsteHovel 04:25:52 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 05:51:07 *** tokai has joined #openttd 05:51:07 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 05:57:54 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 06:31:42 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:56:43 <LordAro> needs michi's newmap branch :p 06:57:47 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 07:00:52 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 07:05:48 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:08:41 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 07:08:48 <Wolf01> I still can't play a decent tank game... I should decide if I want to play pong or the exact opposite, not both at the same time 07:10:31 <TrueBrain> LordAro: or any of the other 5 "newmap" branches OpenTTD has seen over the 17 years :P :P 07:10:55 <Rubidium> tfc_newmap? 07:18:55 <andythenorth> we need a new map? :o 07:20:17 * andythenorth likes the old map 07:26:39 <TrueBrain> playing the same map becomes a bit boring at some point 07:26:44 <TrueBrain> sometimes you just have to take a new seed and run with it 07:50:34 <andythenorth> does anybody here know about programming? 07:50:38 * andythenorth tried to make a PR and got stuck https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9093#issuecomment-828762960 07:56:42 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 07:56:42 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 07:58:42 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: your last comment in that thread makes 0 sense to me when looking at the code 07:58:52 <TrueBrain> I don't see iterating over any vehicle :P 07:59:07 <TrueBrain> also given that the last push you did was essentially empty .. 07:59:10 <TrueBrain> did you commit the right thing there? 07:59:49 <andythenorth> well that could be embarassing 08:01:16 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:01:34 <TrueBrain> you don't have to quit out of embarrassment now :P 08:01:39 <LordAro> mysterious 08:03:27 *** tokai has quit IRC 08:07:06 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:14:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #9093: Feature: [NewGRF] vehicle var 0x4E, 'date of last station departure' https://git.io/JOScW 08:27:06 <Wolf01> https://9gag.com/gag/aDdVvRN 8 trains in 40 seconds... sure try with just 2 tracks 08:43:23 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] EmperorJake commented on pull request #8688: Feature: Hide block signal GUI by default https://git.io/JGQHi 08:46:41 <TrueBrain> (((int)(((unsigned char)((int)type)) & 15)) | ((int)SLE_VAR_NULL)) 08:46:41 <TrueBrain> why does it insist on casting to int so much, ugh 08:46:55 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: ps: you just pushed another empty change to that PR, just so you know 08:47:04 <TrueBrain> did you forget to commit, and are the changes still staged? 08:48:21 <TrueBrain> I love I could solve the issue by using some strong language: "(type & 0xfu) | SLE_VAR_NULL" 08:55:05 <andythenorth> hmm maybe I have failed at git somehow 08:55:40 <andythenorth> I can see my shell history, "git add ." is my usual lazy way, but hasn't added the files to staging 08:55:44 <andythenorth> unusual 08:55:52 * andythenorth such git 09:04:01 <LordAro> add -u 09:04:10 <LordAro> unless you're actually adding new files 09:09:26 <TrueBrain> I have a setting somewhere that has no name .. hmm 09:12:09 <TrueBrain> FOUND IT! 09:12:10 <TrueBrain> :D 09:18:21 *** Samu has joined #openttd 09:30:44 <Wolf01> How? 09:30:55 *** Progman has joined #openttd 09:34:01 <Wolf01> I would like to put a checkbox with no label or tooltip in one of my softwares, just for fun 09:37:57 <TrueBrain> hmm .. so my Python reader can read a certain savegame just fine 09:38:02 <TrueBrain> but the OpenTTD client is missing 22 bytes 09:38:04 <TrueBrain> and I don't know why :D 09:51:34 <TrueBrain> okay, found which 22 bytes they are, I just don't understand why :P 09:53:22 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 09:53:22 *** Smedles has quit IRC 09:53:26 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 09:54:12 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 09:55:52 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 09:57:26 <TrueBrain> grrrrr ... found it ... took only over 30 minutes to spot it .. and it is such an iny tiny minor detail 09:57:26 <TrueBrain> ugh 10:00:45 <andythenorth> lol andythenorth is silly 10:00:53 <andythenorth> trying to make git commits with git add . 10:01:23 <andythenorth> but pwd is build 10:01:36 <TrueBrain> so start using git add -A :P 10:02:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #9093: Feature: [NewGRF] vehicle var 0x4E, 'date of last station departure' https://git.io/JOScW 10:02:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9322: Add: store table header for each chunk in savegame https://git.io/JGlmd 10:03:22 <TrueBrain> right, now my savegame-reader tool can read industries \o/ 10:03:28 <TrueBrain> that was .. painful 10:04:01 <andythenorth> \o/ 10:04:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9093: Feature: [NewGRF] vehicle var 0x4E, 'date of last station departure' https://git.io/JG746 10:04:20 <TrueBrain> gratz andythenorth 10:04:23 <TrueBrain> and here, the solution :P 10:04:37 <andythenorth> hurrah 10:04:53 <TrueBrain> pretty sure you could have come up with that yourself ;) 10:05:00 <andythenorth> you would have won that bet 10:06:28 <TrueBrain> code-wise it reads fine, but I also read people disagreeing over the specs :P 10:16:20 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 10:19:26 *** J0anJosep has joined #openttd 10:24:09 <michi_cc> I'm apparently not a good judge for NewGRF, so I'm not going to touch it, not even with a very long stick. 11:12:22 <andythenorth> OpenGL shader for night mode? 11:24:56 <nielsm> issue with night mode is still that you want lights on, which needs new art 11:25:58 <_dp_> OpenTTD RTX? :p 11:25:59 <TrueBrain> nah, just an AI calculating where to add lights 11:26:01 <TrueBrain> should be easy 11:27:23 <_dp_> yeah, moddable AI 11:27:28 <_dp_> make api -> problem solved 11:27:54 <TrueBrain> we just have to train it, so we let people click on the map where lights should be 11:27:59 <TrueBrain> and it should pick up on it quickly enough 11:28:05 <TrueBrain> some distributed cloud blockchain, and we are done 11:28:13 <nielsm> could make a system where you can supply PNG files to replace selected sprites with night-mode versions 11:31:55 <TrueBrain> oooorrrrrrrr 11:31:59 <TrueBrain> we can force andythenorth to make them 11:32:01 <TrueBrain> >:D 11:33:47 *** tokai has joined #openttd 11:33:47 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 11:39:43 <andythenorth> nielsm most buildings use the same purple for windows 11:40:15 <andythenorth> or we could extend grf with a lights layer which contains windows, neon signs, etc 11:40:24 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 11:40:42 <TrueBrain> neon signs :D 11:41:10 <TrueBrain> when a town builds properly it spells "you are weird" 11:42:22 <_dp_> I have a revolutionary idea... 11:42:31 <_dp_> ... how about fixing daylight graphics first? :p 11:43:39 <TrueBrain> if you take care of that, we will work on the night 11:44:23 <_dp_> funnily enough I'm actually drawing some pixels right now 11:44:29 <_dp_> though result suggests I'd rather not :p 11:46:31 <TrueBrain> about half-way converting stupid chunks to tables .. ugggghhh ... slllloooowwwwwww 11:54:24 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 11:57:27 <TrueBrain> and .. now with signs-support 11:57:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9322: Add: store table header for each chunk in savegame https://git.io/JGlmd 12:00:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] frosch123 opened pull request #220: Fix #209: Cargo 'profit' callback applied a unit conversion, when there was no unit. https://git.io/JG5mG 12:01:43 <frosch123> oh, that kind of signs... 12:01:59 <frosch123> i was on the signed/unsigned integer track :p 12:02:00 <TrueBrain> reason I used plural :) 12:02:29 <frosch123> i just assumed you already skipped ahead to storing numbers as text in json :p 12:07:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] frosch123 commented on pull request #220: Fix #209: Cargo 'profit' callback applied a unit conversion, when there was no unit. https://git.io/JG53L 12:08:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9322: Add: store table header for each chunk in savegame https://git.io/JGlmd 12:08:46 <TrueBrain> okay ... finished the easy ones .. 12:12:44 <TrueBrain> stations and vehicles are just a mess 12:14:12 <TrueBrain> why are roadstops special? 12:14:15 <TrueBrain> (stored in their own chunk) 12:15:06 <TrueBrain> owh, no, it is just the linked list 12:15:11 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #9093: Feature: [NewGRF] vehicle var 0x4E, 'date of last station departure' https://git.io/JOScW 12:17:20 *** Progman has quit IRC 12:17:35 <TrueBrain> frosch123: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/saveload/town_sl.cpp#L237 <- happen to have a smart/good idea how to store a header for a chunk like this? 12:18:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #9093: Feature: [NewGRF] vehicle var 0x4E, 'date of last station departure' https://git.io/JG5n1 12:22:24 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #9093: Feature: [NewGRF] vehicle var 0x4E, 'date of last station departure' https://git.io/JG5Cc 12:24:02 <andythenorth> can trains have their toilets emptied in a depot? 12:24:09 <andythenorth> and the drinks bar restocked? 12:30:12 <frosch123> TrueBrain: you mean, how to solve if a tablecell contains a list of structures? currently the only variable-length celltype is a string, right? maybe there could be a celltype for "list of uint/int8/16/32/64", then the "list of structs" could be decomposed into multiple lists of trivial types 12:30:29 <TrueBrain> list of uint already exists 12:30:42 <TrueBrain> (SL_ARR) 12:31:52 <frosch123> ok, so when changing the format, it could be handled by the schema. but that does not allow loading old games with a compaitiblity-schema :) 12:32:28 <frosch123> hmm, though in this case it would actually work, since the arrays are fixed size 12:32:29 <TrueBrain> so instead of {a, b, c, [{d1, e1, f1}, {d2, e2, f2}] you suggest making it {a1, b1, c1, [d1, d2], [e1, e2], [f1, f2]} ? 12:32:39 <frosch123> yes 12:33:20 <TrueBrain> station has 1 substruct with 20 (!) elements 12:33:48 <frosch123> and in the _compat make it a {a1, b1, c1, d[0], e[0], f[0], d[1], e[1], f[1]} 12:33:48 <TrueBrain> of which 1 is a list :D 12:34:13 <TrueBrain> so I can see it working for towns etc, but for that station blob .. 12:35:09 <TrueBrain> owh, and 1 sub-struct is dynamic in size .. lol 12:35:53 <TrueBrain> (as in, it doesn't use NUM_CARGO or something) 12:36:13 <TrueBrain> so that idea won't work for all cases .. meh .. 12:36:34 <TrueBrain> but I do wonder if we can't have a list of structs .. 12:36:41 <TrueBrain> the size is known 12:37:16 <TrueBrain> so we could do: {header1, header2, INDICATOR-LIST-OF-STRUCT, 0} {subheader1, subheader2} 12:37:18 <TrueBrain> if that makes sense 12:37:49 <TrueBrain> so when reading the header you get to know there is another header following to construct the struct for the list 12:37:59 <TrueBrain> also means we need to store NUM_CARGO in the savegame, but that is a good idea either way 12:38:40 <frosch123> i am still trying to figure out what the station is actually storing there :p 12:39:49 <TrueBrain> {_station_desc} + NUM_CARGO * { {GetGoodsDesc} + cargo_size * {_cargo_list_desc} } 12:39:55 <TrueBrain> a list of structs in a list of structs :) 12:40:15 <TrueBrain> {_station_desc} + NUM_CARGO * { {GetGoodsDesc} + flows * {_flow_desc} + cargo_size * {_cargo_list_desc} } 12:40:16 <TrueBrain> even 12:40:49 <TrueBrain> {_station_desc} + NUM_CARGO * { {GetGoodsDesc} + flows * {_flow_desc} + cargo_size * {_cargo_list_desc} } + num_specs * {_station_speclist_desc} 12:40:51 <TrueBrain> that blob is insane 12:41:00 <frosch123> it is a "map<cargotype, multimap<stationid, CargoPacket*>>" 12:41:27 <TrueBrain> it really should have been more than 1 chunk, tbfh :P 12:41:29 <frosch123> so each station has a dynamic list of pairs of (stationid, cargopacket-ref) 12:42:17 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i had a coworker who liked to talk about the different levels of database normalization :p 12:42:29 <TrueBrain> sounds like you killed him :P 12:42:44 <frosch123> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_normalization#Normal_forms 12:42:58 <TrueBrain> I am aware of normal forms, yes .. I had my database courses too :P 12:43:24 <TrueBrain> omg, Ptrs_STNS also reads from the savegame 12:43:25 <TrueBrain> wtf 12:43:33 <TrueBrain> I think that is the only one doing that .. 12:43:35 <frosch123> there was a time when the CTO wanted to know from each business section, how they use databases (with the intention to figure out whether there could be some joint oracle->psql effort) 12:43:58 <frosch123> some departments replied with a slide of "who they are, and then 3 examples" 12:44:16 <frosch123> my coworker wrote a single sentence: we use ?NF, and a wikipedia link 12:44:24 <frosch123> (i can't remember the ? part) 12:45:29 <TrueBrain> and the CTO applauded? :P 12:45:48 <frosch123> TrueBrain: does it? doesn't Ptrs_STNN just loop over the maps? 12:46:10 <TrueBrain> owh, wait, we have STNN and STNS 12:46:13 <TrueBrain> that is not confusing either 12:46:51 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/saveload/station_sl.cpp#L582 <- it is reading something 12:47:10 <TrueBrain> ah, no 12:47:14 <TrueBrain> nevermind, I forgot how Ptrs worked 12:47:32 <TrueBrain> read: I keep surpressing 12:48:17 <frosch123> :) 12:48:24 <TrueBrain> I think a good first step is to create old_station_sl.cpp 12:48:31 <TrueBrain> as this is very confusing to read 12:49:09 <TrueBrain> in better news: station is the only one that is this complex 12:49:15 <TrueBrain> well, linkgraph comes close too 12:49:18 <frosch123> STNN means 'stations new'? :p 12:49:23 <TrueBrain> I would guess so, yes :) 12:50:19 <TrueBrain> we have more read-only chunks, maybe we should put them in their own folder 12:50:24 <TrueBrain> they are basically read-only at this point :) 12:50:54 <TrueBrain> can't believe the complexity of the station code .. 12:51:03 <TrueBrain> but okay, I think allowing a list of structs is the way to go 12:51:38 <TrueBrain> only needs to be done for the header, I think .. 12:54:19 <TrueBrain> and prefixing the lists with a length gamma solves the weird _num_dests and friends 12:54:51 <frosch123> the magic here is that the length of the list is written in another column 12:55:29 <frosch123> GetGoodsDesc write _num_dests and _num_flows 12:55:33 <TrueBrain> yup 12:56:02 <TrueBrain> and if my suggestion works, we can remove those columns basically 12:56:14 <TrueBrain> as a list of structs would be very similar to a list of uint32s 12:57:21 <TrueBrain> although .. current a list of uint32s is only possible with a fixed length 12:57:55 <TrueBrain> owh, wait, no, SaveLoad as SL_ARR, which is fixed 12:57:58 <TrueBrain> and SL_LST, which is dynamic 12:58:46 <frosch123> does it hurt to make all lists dynamic? 12:58:52 <frosch123> (in the savegame) 12:59:02 <TrueBrain> few more bytes on disk 12:59:52 <TrueBrain> for now what I did with SL_ARR, that the header also stores the length for those entries 12:59:59 <frosch123> i mean from a savegame-viewer point-of-view 12:59:59 <TrueBrain> so it is no longer {type, field-name} 13:00:08 <TrueBrain> but {type[, length], field-name} 13:00:12 <frosch123> would they want to know whether a list is homongenously sized in all items? 13:00:31 <TrueBrain> it does give more information, ofc, knowing it is fixes size 13:00:38 <TrueBrain> but .. I can't think of anything significant 13:01:01 <TrueBrain> if anything, it is easier if everything is an SL_LST 13:01:04 <TrueBrain> and SL_ARR dies 13:01:17 <TrueBrain> (an optional length-field is just annoying) 13:02:47 <TrueBrain> we also have a few deque fields 13:03:28 <frosch123> that's the same on disk as a LST, right? 13:03:56 <TrueBrain> I had to look through several layers, but yes :P 13:04:55 <frosch123> good, i would have believed you, if you had said "no" :) 13:05:05 <TrueBrain> so if we make SL_ARR also behave like a LST, the world becomes slightly easier 13:05:39 <TrueBrain> and that means for a list of structs we just need to add something like SLE_FILE_STRUCT 13:05:42 <TrueBrain> and assign it a number 13:06:01 <TrueBrain> and the SaveLoad code can remain mostly the same 13:06:21 <TrueBrain> (so I am not going to embed a C++ struct in a struct, and learn the SaveLoad code how to read that :P) 13:07:20 <TrueBrain> okay, I can see that working 13:07:27 <TrueBrain> that means I have 1 more issue to figure out .. unions 13:09:21 <TrueBrain> and ideally a clean way to avoid SLE_VEH_INCLUDE 13:09:28 <TrueBrain> as that is just ... ugh 13:09:54 <frosch123> make an list of struct with length 0 or 1 :p 13:10:00 <frosch123> kind of std::optional 13:11:33 <TrueBrain> can you in C++ do something like this: https://godbolt.org/z/86zq7nK55 13:12:59 <frosch123> std::variant is the c++ way to do a union 13:13:29 <TrueBrain> my godbolt is not about unions :) 13:13:30 <frosch123> it's a union that knows which item is valid 13:13:54 <frosch123> range concatenations is a c++20 thing 13:14:08 <TrueBrain> currently there is SL_VEH_INCLUDE and SL_ST_INCLUDE 13:14:19 <TrueBrain> which are just dirty hacks to avoid code duplication 13:14:27 <TrueBrain> I was wondering if that could be solved with C++ nicely these days 13:14:28 <LordAro> it's more container concatenation 13:14:42 <LordAro> which is possible, but not particularly neat 13:15:04 <LordAro> probably requires operator overloads, if at all possible 13:15:14 <TrueBrain> nah, that would be too much 13:15:16 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i guess make _waypoint_desc a GetWaypointDesc 13:15:22 <frosch123> and concatenate them in code 13:15:44 <TrueBrain> by throwing it in a std::vector? 13:15:51 <frosch123> yes 13:16:03 <frosch123> "static std::vector" even 13:16:07 <TrueBrain> of 13:16:07 <TrueBrain> c 13:16:19 <TrueBrain> that would work for Vehicles too I guess 13:16:25 <TrueBrain> as the cost of a runtime penalty 13:16:40 <frosch123> a start-up penalty 13:16:46 <TrueBrain> yup 13:16:49 <TrueBrain> well, first-use 13:16:51 <frosch123> you only fill the vector once :) 13:17:14 <TrueBrain> I like that solution; that is a whole lot cleaner 13:17:21 <TrueBrain> okay, so that solves that 13:17:39 <frosch123> anyway, why i came up with the std::optional/std::variant thing 13:17:45 <TrueBrain> list of structs for an union, how realistic is that, I wonder .. 13:18:00 <frosch123> you could merge the vehicles into a single object, and have the train-specific part a s as sub-struct 13:18:50 <frosch123> kind of like a list of structs, but with 0 or 1 list item 13:19:23 <TrueBrain> not sure I follow (at all, honestly :P) 13:19:41 <TrueBrain> how things are in memory is not that important atm; I am more worried how we can store it on disk in a sane way 13:20:29 <TrueBrain> atm it is something like: {type, *{common}, *{type-specific}} 13:20:53 <TrueBrain> your suggestion is to do more like: {[{train}], [{road}], [{ship}], ..}, I think? 13:21:09 <TrueBrain> so "type" is the Nth list that is non-empty 13:22:14 <frosch123> https://dpaste.org/bwH1 13:22:41 <TrueBrain> {{common}, [{train}], [{road}], [{ship}], ..} 13:22:42 <TrueBrain> sure :) 13:22:54 <frosch123> no idea how to load it though :p 13:23:07 <TrueBrain> yeah, that is the trick 13:23:13 <TrueBrain> the reason the vehicle-type is at the start 13:23:17 <TrueBrain> is so it can allocate the right type 13:23:50 <frosch123> SLE_WRITEBYTE <- oh, i was confused how it could read it twice... 13:24:00 <frosch123> but it doesn't :p 13:24:08 <TrueBrain> SLE_WRITEBYTE is ... euh ... not what the name suggests 13:24:24 <TrueBrain> it is SLE_SAVE_ONLY 13:24:26 <TrueBrain> or something 13:25:00 <frosch123> yes, the asymmetry between Save_VEHS and Load_VEHS confused me :p 13:25:10 <TrueBrain> can't blame you 13:25:18 <frosch123> it stored/loaded the same GetVehicleDescription, but the load part loaded an additional thing before that :p 13:25:44 <TrueBrain> anyway, we could also just implement STR_FILE_UNION, tbh 13:25:56 <TrueBrain> just more technical debt :P 13:26:09 <TrueBrain> I like keeping shit simple 13:30:37 <TrueBrain> wait, okay, we can do one better, which might just work 13:30:44 <TrueBrain> for a list of structs I need to add STR_FILE_STRUCT anyway 13:30:51 <TrueBrain> but the "list" part is optional 13:31:04 <TrueBrain> so we can just do {type, common, train-struct, rv-struct, ..} 13:31:15 <TrueBrain> but .. they can't be empty 13:31:16 <TrueBrain> lol 13:31:18 <TrueBrain> I am going in circles 13:31:19 <TrueBrain> fml :P 13:31:46 <TrueBrain> so what-ever, we just do {type, common, [{train-strcut}], ..} 13:32:00 <TrueBrain> means minimal changes to current save/load code 13:32:06 <TrueBrain> and an external tool can figure that out too 13:32:49 <TrueBrain> the only "change" is that we write a few 0s extra to disk for each vehicle 13:32:53 <TrueBrain> 5 to be exact 13:33:28 <TrueBrain> owh, and 1 1 13:33:30 <TrueBrain> so 6 bytes per vehicle 13:33:32 <TrueBrain> I think we survive 13:34:27 <TrueBrain> tnx frosch123 ; will fiddle a bit with it, and we will take it from there again :) 13:43:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9322: Add: store table header for each chunk in savegame https://git.io/JGlmd 13:43:38 <TrueBrain> right, "ai" supported too .. now we can easily see what AI is loaded 13:55:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on discussion #9150: RFC: Have OpenTTD *not* lock the cursor position when dragging viewports by default https://git.io/J3GPg 13:57:54 *** ioangogo has quit IRC 14:01:45 *** ioangogo has joined #openttd 14:02:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] embeddedt commented on discussion #9150: RFC: Have OpenTTD *not* lock the cursor position when dragging viewports by default https://git.io/J3GPg 14:13:48 <andythenorth> I once got yelled at by my CTO of the time about normalisation 14:13:52 <andythenorth> and how I had broken it all 14:14:06 <andythenorth> we needed different data to show the actual customers 14:14:20 <andythenorth> so I wrote some queries to fetch data across multiple tables 14:16:12 *** J0anJosep has quit IRC 14:19:11 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #8688: Feature: Hide block signal GUI by default https://git.io/JGdtv 14:19:57 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 14:21:19 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] frosch123 updated pull request #220: Fix #209: Cargo 'profit' callback applied a unit conversion, when there was no unit. https://git.io/JG5mG 14:41:38 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 14:50:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] PeterN commented on pull request #220: Fix #209: Cargo 'profit' callback applied a unit conversion, when there was no unit. https://git.io/JGdWH 14:53:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #9093: Feature: [NewGRF] vehicle var 0x4E, 'date of last station departure' https://git.io/JGd8L 14:54:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #9093: Feature: [NewGRF] vehicle var 0x4E, 'date of last station departure' https://git.io/JGd8w 14:54:35 * andythenorth could just look up INVALID_DATE in src 14:56:36 <andythenorth> hmm -1 15:05:23 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 15:12:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on discussion #9150: RFC: Have OpenTTD *not* lock the cursor position when dragging viewports by default https://git.io/J3GPg 15:26:39 <andythenorth> such dragging discussion 15:26:51 <andythenorth> I should plug a mouse in and see what it does 15:28:41 <peter1138> I've used it like that since... well, since I implemented the setting that way. 15:30:11 <andythenorth> do you have to pick up the mouse and move it? 15:35:04 <andythenorth> so rename wood to logs? 15:35:16 <andythenorth> hmm maybe a discord chat 15:38:54 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 15:50:43 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 16:13:38 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 16:13:52 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 16:17:11 <andythenorth> oh what now, I made a merge commit on 9093? 16:17:16 <andythenorth> I thought I'd stopped that bad habit 16:17:24 <andythenorth> it emailed me to say all checks failed :| 16:17:28 <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9093/checks?check_run_id=2752807357 16:18:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #9093: Feature: [NewGRF] vehicle var 0x4E, 'date of last station departure' https://git.io/JOScW 16:33:19 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 16:35:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] embeddedt commented on discussion #9150: RFC: Have OpenTTD *not* lock the cursor position when dragging viewports by default https://git.io/J3GPg 16:45:10 *** glx has joined #openttd 16:45:10 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 16:49:09 <andythenorth> hurrah, fixed my own mess :D 16:56:52 *** Flygon has quit IRC 18:04:03 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 18:34:03 <peter1138> hurr 18:42:07 <LordAro> peter1138: well done 18:42:15 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 18:45:29 <peter1138> lol, not much of a ride compared to what you've been up to. 18:46:06 <LordAro> :> 18:46:14 <LordAro> any cycling is good cycling 18:46:24 <LordAro> but yes 18:46:29 <LordAro> guess what i get to do tomorrow 18:52:53 <peter1138> :D 19:02:50 <andythenorth> anyone else getting random DMs? 19:13:41 <frosch123> on IRC? no 19:21:08 *** Progman has joined #openttd 19:27:08 <andythenorth> frosch123 you mentioned a few times - I'm curious now, how does a desert town grow if it has no water tower 19:27:48 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 19:27:52 * andythenorth hasn't played base game for years 19:32:00 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 19:32:00 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 19:32:19 <frosch123> if it is a tiny town of like 3 houses, it grows until it reaches some minimum population anyway. that's probably to ensure that the town accepts passengers 19:32:34 <frosch123> but ultimatively it's the player's job to fund a water tower 19:32:42 <frosch123> just like the player has to fund lumbermills 19:35:39 <andythenorth> how does the player figure out it out? 19:35:43 <andythenorth> I guess the town window 19:36:53 * andythenorth planning a test of FIRS controlling town population growth, via building type selection 19:36:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JGbWn 19:36:55 <frosch123> it's an old game. players were smarter in the 90s :p 19:36:56 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 19:37:19 <frosch123> or maybe there was a printed manual 19:37:21 <andythenorth> if I could place a 'town hall' industry or something in every town, that could explain how growth works via industry window 19:37:26 <andythenorth> printed manual there was :D 19:38:05 <andythenorth> I considered a GS, but Eddi has explained to me twice now how syncing user-installed dependencies is an impossible problem in computer science 19:38:57 *** tokai has quit IRC 19:51:07 <frosch123> andythenorth: reverse the thing. call the industry "industrial era", limit it to one per town, and limit all other industries to towns with "industrial era" achievement 19:51:41 <frosch123> then the player can start a development program to bring more towns into the industrial age 19:52:43 <frosch123> tribal towns just don't get any industries 19:53:00 <frosch123> rename passengers to slaves, and you are done 19:54:03 <andythenorth> I consider adopting part of your idea :P 19:54:13 <andythenorth> I believe slave things are now deprecated in polite company 19:54:39 <frosch123> fine, call them commuters :p 19:58:35 <andythenorth> 'satisfy industries to get more industries' 19:59:18 <andythenorth> even player cannot build if town is not industrial? 20:00:56 <frosch123> player cannot fund industries, you can show a custom error message "must fund industrialisation first" 20:01:12 <frosch123> transporting stuff is fine ofc :p 20:01:47 <frosch123> you cannot block building iron dragons through native terrritory 20:02:14 <frosch123> unless you want to increase the breakdown rate there :p 20:02:50 <andythenorth> hmm 20:02:56 <andythenorth> I am tempted to try it 20:03:12 <andythenorth> it doesn't help that I am trying to give a purpose to the final / tertiary / town cargos :) 20:03:31 <frosch123> yeti already exists 20:03:34 <andythenorth> in this idea, nothing could be built until the town is satisfied 20:03:50 <andythenorth> but currently town satisfying cargos can't be done until everything is built 20:03:56 * andythenorth considers revolution 20:04:06 <frosch123> ah, so you want a tech tree :p 20:04:19 <frosch123> you first have to develop the coal industry, until steelplants are invented 20:04:31 <frosch123> stone age, bronce age, iron age, steel age 20:04:34 <andythenorth> everything relies on player funding, yes? 20:04:46 <andythenorth> (because OpenTTD can't reliably build new chains) 20:05:00 <andythenorth> cheap industry costs, high satisfaction requirements 20:05:14 <andythenorth> it might be a thing 20:07:48 <andythenorth> tech tree FIRS 20:09:34 <frosch123> call it SCND 20:14:25 <andythenorth> can I just do the Warcraft 1 village buildings? 20:14:33 <andythenorth> lumber mill, blacksmith, stable 20:15:42 <andythenorth> supply chain 20:15:44 <andythenorth> hmm 20:16:29 <andythenorth> we are a bit short on window space to explain things like 20:16:51 <andythenorth> "to build this industry, your town needs to be producing at least 300t of steel every month" 20:16:56 <andythenorth> story book? o_O 20:17:59 <frosch123> if it is fun to play, people will play it anyway, and figure it out 20:18:13 <andythenorth> so many ideas for adding variety to FIRS 20:18:18 <andythenorth> they're not all compatible 20:18:21 <frosch123> let new players play XIS, less bug reports for you? 20:18:29 <andythenorth> I already recommend that :) 20:18:43 <frosch123> just fork firs, it's pretty common 20:18:49 <andythenorth> fashionable 20:20:01 <andythenorth> there was an idea about towns having a parent 20:20:07 <andythenorth> which would give a regional capital 20:20:23 <andythenorth> regional capitals could have a parent, which would be map capital 20:21:07 <andythenorth> I tried to figure out how a town would be assigned a parent, but my ideas weren't good 20:21:21 <frosch123> sounds like adding the option to store setting values as hex in openttd.cfg 20:21:31 <andythenorth> bad? 20:21:54 <frosch123> abstract stuff that noone will use 20:22:01 <andythenorth> I would use it 20:22:09 <andythenorth> mostly to do energy grid 20:22:23 <andythenorth> and maybe some ideas that I shouldn't also 20:22:41 <andythenorth> probably needs something fancy, like a voroni partition? 20:22:48 <andythenorth> always fancy things 20:23:11 <LordAro> voxels? 20:23:18 <andythenorth> not sure they help with this :) 20:23:23 <andythenorth> also we have voxels already 20:26:42 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 20:30:24 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 20:32:09 <andythenorth> hmm some BAD ideas 20:32:25 <andythenorth> FIRS scrap yard production currently depends on town population 20:32:37 <andythenorth> but I could make it also depend on cargos being delivered to the town 20:33:10 <andythenorth> communicating via town register 20:33:24 <andythenorth> or I could just shortcut all that, and do an industry visually split in tow 20:33:27 <andythenorth> two * 20:33:37 <andythenorth> one side scrap yard, one side vehicle dealer 20:33:49 *** frosch12 has joined #openttd 20:33:56 <andythenorth> or one side scrap yard, one side retail park shops 20:34:12 <andythenorth> extra frosch123 20:34:50 <andythenorth> segmented industries: industrial park 20:35:17 <frosch12> did you play yeti? 20:35:25 <andythenorth> accepts: [whatever town cargos] produces: [scrap metal | waste | recyclables] 20:35:28 <andythenorth> no 20:35:37 <frosch12> it has multiple game modes, all about how to involve towns into the industry chains 20:35:38 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 20:35:41 <andythenorth> I have looked at it, and been on servers that have it 20:36:00 <andythenorth> I mostly spent time looking at the slug 20:36:05 <andythenorth> it's quite compelling 20:36:23 <frosch12> is there an andy inside firs? 20:36:28 <andythenorth> unlikely 20:36:35 <andythenorth> although I have been turned into a gif on discord 20:36:39 <andythenorth> never livestream 20:37:12 <andythenorth> I could just do a house set and let FIRS control town growth 20:37:24 <andythenorth> but I have enough projects, and houses are of limited interest 20:38:26 <frosch12> what does the gif show? 20:38:36 <frosch12> gif have no audio, so no "disagree" in there 20:41:00 <andythenorth> it's my face 20:41:03 <andythenorth> animated 20:41:27 <frosch12> drinking beer? 20:41:44 <andythenorth> can't remember :) 20:41:54 <andythenorth> I'm trying to avoid it 20:42:54 <andythenorth> hmm, having FIRS control town growth gets quite limiting in economy design 20:43:13 <andythenorth> means I'd always have to include building materials and stuff, and make them available quite early in the chain 20:44:25 <frosch12> clay houses :) 20:45:03 <andythenorth> it would conflate with the desert / above snowline behaviour also 20:45:56 <andythenorth> Tyler has a house set, the idea was something like 'FIRS tells a town register that the town is satisfied for a value in a range something like 0-3 20:46:32 <andythenorth> then when new buildings are built by the town, the house grf reads the register and chooses a fancy building, or a less fancy building 20:48:46 <andythenorth> the default desert / snowline town behaviour is a bit weird 20:48:54 <andythenorth> I still don't know what FIRS should be doing about it :) 20:49:07 <andythenorth> I currently just make sure food exists and hope for the best 20:50:47 <andythenorth> hmm if TE_WATER cargo does not exist, it seems tropic drops the requirement? 20:51:07 *** Samu has quit IRC 20:51:29 <TrueBrain> frosch12: that info@ email is weird .. it is very nice someone asks permission etc, but he then signs with his nickname .. which completely invalidates the request .. I am a bit puzzled :) 20:51:56 <TrueBrain> can't figure out if it is real or not :P 20:53:10 <frosch12> i visited their yt channel 20:53:43 <frosch12> they do not comment their games, so i cannot figure out their age 20:53:53 <frosch12> but several videos require login to confirm age :p 20:54:07 <frosch12> probably anime trash 20:54:08 <TrueBrain> I just don't get it .. if you understand stuff enough to ask permission and not just do it .. why don't sign the mail with your full name? 20:54:37 <TrueBrain> like: can I get permission to publish your book, but I am not telling who I am, so you are saying yes to "someone" 20:55:15 <frosch12> i don't think its unusual people want to stay anonymous 20:55:24 <frosch12> i also send all my mails as frosch 20:55:41 <TrueBrain> wanting to be anonymous is fine .. except when you talk legal :) 20:55:47 <TrueBrain> that is just .. 2 worlds .. colliding 20:56:02 <frosch12> pff. i don't think they wrote that 20:56:12 <frosch12> i think it's some template, people copy&paste it 20:56:13 <TrueBrain> I am just a bit confused with the meaning of this email :P 20:56:21 <TrueBrain> tried googling it, couldn't find it :D 20:56:35 <TrueBrain> its funny how difficult it has become to judge if something is spam or not 20:56:44 <frosch12> they have 10 subscribers, they are not part of any monetization program or channel network :p 20:56:53 <TrueBrain> at least it is something else then the "free translator service" 20:58:13 <frosch12> so, well, we get these mails every few years 20:58:18 <TrueBrain> but I do take back a comment I made weeks ago .. as I now do agree with you: since we launched on Steam, the mails have gotten weirder :P 20:58:23 <frosch12> commerical games usually have some rules on their website 20:58:41 <andythenorth> hrm, I don't want to touch houses at all :P 20:58:46 * andythenorth dodges that bullet 20:58:49 <frosch12> TrueBrain: look in the drafts folder 20:59:02 <andythenorth> even though they are broken for cargo acceptance by FIRS in some economies 20:59:05 <frosch12> pm saved a template for this "can i stream on youtube" question 20:59:14 <TrueBrain> frosch12: there is 1 mail in the draft folder :P 20:59:33 <frosch12> err, templates folder 20:59:42 <frosch12> but looks like it's broken now 21:00:05 <TrueBrain> frosch12: some weird PGP mail that won't open :P 21:00:10 <TrueBrain> but I believe you .. never seen this request before :) 21:00:16 <TrueBrain> it just confused me :P 21:00:46 <frosch12> you can also search inbox 21:00:56 <frosch12> there is a 7 mail long conversation from 2015 with someone 21:01:18 <TrueBrain> its funny, as this balances on the debate what is fair use :) 21:01:24 <TrueBrain> still nobody really knows the answer :P 21:01:47 <frosch12> the essence is usually: you can play openttd, but we do not own any of the basesets, add-ons, sounds, whatever 21:02:50 <nielsm> <TrueBrain> frosch12: that info@ email is weird .. it is very nice someone asks permission etc, but he then signs with his nickname .. which completely invalidates the request .. I am a bit puzzled :) <--- I haven't seen the email in question, but I think it'd make sense to write a page describing general permissions and exceptions for streaming/let's play content and related monetization 21:03:04 <TrueBrain> nielsm: I call it the GPLv2 license :D 21:03:23 <nielsm> (GPL allows you to use the work for any purpose including commercial purposes yes, but if you use any add-ons you need to check the licenses of those individually) 21:03:38 <nielsm> (just write a page stating that) 21:03:41 <TrueBrain> but go for it, I would say ;) 21:04:36 <frosch12> i would not be able to write such page, without ridiculing the topic :p 21:04:53 <TrueBrain> well, nielsm volunteered, didn't they? 21:04:54 <frosch12> "make sure to not play any scenario with the 'no derivatives allowed' license" 21:05:11 <TrueBrain> (look at that frosch12 , I did it correctly! :P) 21:05:21 <nielsm> https://github.com/OpenTTD/website/blob/master/pages/policy.html <-- add to this page? 21:05:22 <frosch12> yes, i noticed :p 21:05:58 <TrueBrain> I am really curious what a court says if YouTube is within fair use 21:06:01 <TrueBrain> and how far that can be pushed 21:06:12 <TrueBrain> is making 1M dollar a month fair use, for example :P 21:08:09 <frosch12> germany recently passed the upload filter law. it specifies limits for what is allowed in terms of "seconds audio", "seconds video", "kilobyte image", "characters text", with exceptions like "no key scenes" (like the 3 seconds of scoring a goal in a football game) 21:08:59 <TrueBrain> really? funny :) 21:09:18 <TrueBrain> are the limits within reason? 21:10:46 <TrueBrain> 125KB of graphics 21:10:49 <TrueBrain> well .. that is a weird number 21:10:55 <TrueBrain> before or after compression? :P 21:12:04 <frosch12> ok, it says: 15 seconds video or audio, 160 characters and 125 kB image are free for non-commercial use 21:12:17 <frosch12> as long as they are less than half of the whole thing 21:12:19 <TrueBrain> the image is an odd duck 21:12:33 <frosch12> yeah, more black&white pictures :) 21:12:41 <TrueBrain> so you can show 50% of a tweet, basically :P 21:12:46 <frosch12> more compression :) 21:13:05 <TrueBrain> so if I project this on a game 21:13:10 <TrueBrain> it means you can do 50% of a game 21:13:31 <TrueBrain> as long as you flag it as "exception" :P 21:13:48 <TrueBrain> my problems with these kind of laws is always that is very vague what they try to prevent 21:14:27 <frosch12> this one is about "you can share trivial things, you need permission for anything else" 21:14:30 <TrueBrain> but by the looks, they didn't really consider games with this law :) 21:14:40 <frosch12> so baby dancing to background music for 15 seconds is allowed now 21:14:51 <TrueBrain> well, if it is less than 50% of the original work 21:14:56 <TrueBrain> so depends on how old the baby gets? :P 21:15:03 <frosch12> most songs are longer than 30 seconds :p 21:15:11 <TrueBrain> I was talking about the baby! :D 21:15:35 <TrueBrain> does this also count for reposting? I would guess so 21:15:54 <TrueBrain> so a repost is only 7 seconds of a baby dancing 21:16:04 <TrueBrain> in combination with other content, ofc 21:16:24 <TrueBrain> and to be clear, I am just trying to get a bit of feeling what they did, not trying to ridicule it 21:16:53 <TrueBrain> so you can still do those youtube uploads which are montage of TikToks 21:17:32 <TrueBrain> well, at least it becomes a bit more clear what is allowed and what is not :) 21:17:39 <TrueBrain> the complete free-for-all atm is a bit weird 21:18:14 <TrueBrain> I mean, I played many games by just watching someone else do it, without every buying it myself (or really playing it) .. it is a bit weird .. as I doubt the person playing it paid any of his revenue to the game creator 21:19:09 <andythenorth> weird world is weird 21:20:24 <frosch12> TrueBrain: streaming games is so popular, that companies usually say what is allowed 21:20:46 <TrueBrain> did not know that; also not a streamer, that might be related :) 21:20:46 <frosch12> it's usually along "you can stream the game, but disable the music, we only licensed it for the game" 21:21:04 <frosch12> and "japanese companies do not allow anything" 21:21:20 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:21:22 <TrueBrain> just for my curiosity, happen to have an example? 21:21:27 <frosch12> for story based streams it's usually "you are not allowe do show these main story elements" 21:22:27 <frosch12> oh, and most important "your stream content must have the same age rating as the game" 21:23:28 <frosch12> TrueBrain: https://www.paradoxplaza.com/letsplay-static-info-ca.html 21:24:03 <TrueBrain> tnx 21:24:04 <TrueBrain> TIL :) 21:24:17 <andythenorth> will it be really limiting if every town won't grow unless a power station in the town zone is supplied with cargo? 21:24:40 * andythenorth trying to figure out how to extend the range beyond 'this town' 21:24:51 <TrueBrain> 'You should include your own creative input and commentary' <- I like that 21:26:30 <TrueBrain> that page is really nicely worded, damn 21:26:32 <TrueBrain> I like that 21:30:20 <frosch12> https://www.blizzard.com/en-us/legal/dd76b654-f2c4-4aaa-ba49-ca3122de2376/blizzard-video-policy <- another one 21:31:14 <frosch12> looks like both forbit putting your gameplay behind a paywall :) 21:31:58 <frosch12> lol, that page is really old 21:32:13 <frosch12> half of the streaming services listed are defunct or renamed by now 21:32:18 <TrueBrain> I like the paradox more, as it also includes monetization :) 21:32:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] nielsmh opened pull request #213: Add: Policy section for content creators https://git.io/JGNen 21:33:04 <frosch12> TrueBrain: oddly enough it misses the "your content must have the same age rating as our game" rule 21:33:11 <TrueBrain> yeah 21:33:14 <TrueBrain> well, can't have them all :) 21:35:11 <frosch12> also, i only watch games i wouldn't play myself :) 21:35:19 <TrueBrain> same :) 21:35:33 <frosch12> this game is interesting but requires too much micromanagement -> i rather watch someone else dealing with the annoyance 21:35:45 <frosch12> someone is playing factorio -> such a noob, i can do that better 21:36:19 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #213: Add: Policy section for content creators https://git.io/JGNva 21:36:37 <TrueBrain> I like watching horror-games .. cannot play them myself :P 21:36:49 <TrueBrain> or very slow games .. like Shipbreakers 21:36:59 *** tokai has joined #openttd 21:36:59 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 21:37:02 <TrueBrain> I get really bored playing it, but watching someone else doing it on the background is very nice :) 21:37:30 <frosch12> some years ago i also noticed some behavior change for some streamers of story based games. when games had multiple story paths, they used to play all of them. at some point they changed to only play one, and then tell people to play themself if they want to learn more 21:37:39 <frosch12> which sounds like a fair rule 21:37:46 <frosch12> but no idea whether someone enforced it :p 21:38:09 <TrueBrain> I am always surprised they finish the game :P 21:38:22 <TrueBrain> as streamer, I would be very tempted to skip the last part and say: now go do it yourself 21:38:24 <TrueBrain> but I am evil 21:38:34 <frosch12> pff, if you are a full-time streamer, you have to fill the void with something 21:38:54 <frosch12> not everyone sells their bathing water 21:41:20 <TrueBrain> nielsm: reads like a fine text to me; we might get questions over time about it, but we can deal with that when they arrive 21:41:59 <TrueBrain> I wonder .. does a Let's play need to link to the original source too, under GPLv2? :D 21:42:58 <frosch12> they do not modify it, they only have to link where they got it from 21:43:08 <TrueBrain> that is what I mean, yes 21:43:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] nielsmh updated pull request #213: Add: Policy section for content creators https://git.io/JGNen 21:43:15 <TrueBrain> maybe also something to add, just to make sure they know that? 21:43:17 <frosch12> anyway, i think the "privacy policy" page is the wrong page for this 21:43:18 <nielsm> added two things, I think are good to have 21:43:49 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 21:43:52 <TrueBrain> rebrand the page "legal"? 21:43:57 <nielsm> nah if it was Affero GPL then you might need to offer the software when you showcase it 21:44:10 <frosch12> nielsm: what was the license of opensfx again? 21:44:17 <nielsm> GPL only applies restrictions/demands on distribution of the software 21:44:30 <frosch12> it was some mixture of licenses, but not gpl 21:46:09 <nielsm> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenSFX/blob/master/docs/readme.ptxt#L35 haha wow 21:47:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #213: Add: Policy section for content creators https://git.io/JGNT8 21:50:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #213: Add: Policy section for content creators https://git.io/JGNkm 21:52:36 <TrueBrain> ugh, forgot we have other pages like https://servers.openttd.org/listing also point to the "Privacy Policy" on www.openttd.org 21:53:24 <TrueBrain> so a second page is easiest :D 21:54:14 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 21:54:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] nielsmh updated pull request #213: Add: Policy section for content creators https://git.io/JGNen 21:56:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] nielsmh commented on pull request #213: Add: Policy section for content creators https://git.io/JGNLn 21:58:13 <frosch12> pretty sure bananas also links to it somewhere 21:58:19 <Timberwolf> I probably missed the main conversation, but the only reason Timberwolf's Stations exists is because the only passenger station set I liked was mb's, but I couldn't see how streaming was compatible with his licence. 21:58:20 <TrueBrain> most pages do 21:58:43 <frosch12> ah yes, we copied the footer everywhere :p 21:58:58 <TrueBrain> I also wanted the Privacy Policy everywhere. I think that is important :) 22:00:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #213: Add: Policy section for content creators https://git.io/JGNt0 22:00:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] nielsmh updated pull request #213: Add: Policy section for content creators https://git.io/JGNen 22:01:23 <frosch12> nielsm: https://www.openttd.org/contact.html <- please also add a link there :) 22:01:43 <frosch12> i don't think it needs to be in the footer 22:01:49 <TrueBrain> nielsm: you would make me really happy if you name the page "content_creators.html" (adding the _) .. but I won't not approve it if you don't :) 22:02:36 <TrueBrain> or a "-" 22:02:41 <TrueBrain> what ever works most for you :) 22:03:24 <frosch12> the other pages have _ 22:03:35 <TrueBrain> but none have it in their URL 22:03:42 <TrueBrain> I always think - in URLs is nicer :P 22:03:45 <TrueBrain> but .. tomato tomato, really 22:04:29 <TrueBrain> (sorry, I was looking at the permalink; yes, the file itself too :P) 22:05:46 <TrueBrain> but okay, bikeshedding ++ .. I think this is awesome nielsm , tnx :) 22:06:23 <TrueBrain> Timberwolf: that is a pretty whacky reason to make a NewGRF, but also pretty cool :) 22:08:27 <Timberwolf> I am respectful of licences. Not so much 1980s television cartoons. 22:09:06 <nielsm> I can't find a good place to put on the contact page 22:09:42 <TrueBrain> nielsm: just make a similar green box below "Questions and player support" 22:09:54 <TrueBrain> (before "Bugs and other issues") 22:10:20 <TrueBrain> it should be before "Abuse", and after "Questions" 22:10:38 <TrueBrain> and not between "Bugs" and "Feature Requests" 22:10:42 <TrueBrain> so imo, either above Bugs or below Feature requests 22:11:45 <TrueBrain> "Planning to use OpenTTD on your stream or want to upload your Let's Play to a video platform? Content Creator Guidelines: <link>" 22:11:48 <TrueBrain> or something, as text in the white box 22:12:02 <Timberwolf> I should get back to making boats. 22:12:21 <TrueBrain> those super-realistic pirate boats? :D 22:12:33 <Timberwolf> My stepdad suggested I look at all the things Everards have, for a cross-section of random coastal shipping vessels. 22:12:36 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] nielsmh updated pull request #213: Add: Policy section for content creators https://git.io/JGNen 22:12:50 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 22:13:14 <Timberwolf> Mum and stepdad also gave me two boxes worth of 45rpm singles in desperate need of cleaning, which has not helped with newgrf productivity. 22:13:59 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 22:14:06 <Timberwolf> Digitising a somewhat worn copy of Guy Mitchell's 'Heartaches By The Number' is clearly more important for current and future civilisations. 22:14:28 <TrueBrain> I am fine with #213; frosch12 , you too? 22:14:46 <TrueBrain> Timberwolf: lol 22:16:09 <Timberwolf> My dad had a lot more Shadows records than he let on. (But sadly not 'Wonderful Land', imo the best of their early '60s singles) 22:16:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] frosch123 approved pull request #213: Add: Policy section for content creators https://git.io/JGN3j 22:16:57 <Timberwolf> In surprisingly good condition, given how many times he'd have repeatedly played the same sections trying to work out how to play them on guitar. 22:17:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain merged pull request #213: Add: Policy section for content creators https://git.io/JGNen 22:17:48 <TrueBrain> and now we wait on staging ... :D 22:18:10 <frosch12> and then flame the email sender, why they didn't check the website? 22:18:21 <TrueBrain> I leave that to you :D 22:20:06 <TrueBrain> +up 22:20:11 <TrueBrain> but who is counting this late in a day 22:23:48 <TrueBrain> https://www.staging.openttd.org/content-creators.html 22:24:07 <TrueBrain> stylistic it could use some finetuning, to make it easier to read .. but .. that is for another day :) 22:25:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain created new tag: 1.4.29 https://git.io/JGNZS 22:27:08 <frosch12> i am sure the layout will be improved just after the bananas upload form :) 22:27:19 <TrueBrain> give or take a year 22:27:28 <TrueBrain> (after the upload form) 22:34:14 <TrueBrain> and pushed it on Discord as Announcement 22:35:44 <TrueBrain> as I figured, if there are people who were not sure, they can be found there :P 22:43:42 <andythenorth> hmm FIRS really lacks 'launch the rocket' eh 22:43:46 <andythenorth> such fail 22:44:24 <frosch12> there isn't even industry whack 22:45:16 <Timberwolf> andythenorth: Build your first vehicle. 22:45:24 <Timberwolf> Launch the Cortina. 22:45:27 <andythenorth> lol 22:45:53 <andythenorth> FIRS Steeltown is quite good with Silicon Valley and vehicles 22:46:11 <andythenorth> if you are prepared to regenerate the map a LOT of times to get a viable map AND vehicles :) 22:50:20 <Timberwolf> I do like the way I provide era-appropriate vehicle sprites all the way back to the 1800s, and I've never yet managed to complete the vehicle chain before they've become Cortinas. 22:51:14 *** Smedles has quit IRC 22:51:15 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 22:57:34 *** nielsm has quit IRC 22:58:01 <andythenorth> ha 22:58:19 <andythenorth> if I do vehicles import in the West Country economy... 22:58:27 <TrueBrain> clang: error: unable to execute command: Segmentation fault 22:58:29 <TrueBrain> I DID IT! 22:58:30 <TrueBrain> sorry :) 23:00:24 *** frosch12 has quit IRC 23:04:29 *** gelignite has quit IRC 23:04:43 <andythenorth> oof bedtime 23:04:45 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 23:05:06 <Timberwolf> The last time I imported a vehicle to the West Country it overheated horrible in Bristol city centre traffic. 23:06:36 <Timberwolf> Actually no, I have successfully driven two different Volvos to Cornwall without any significant mechanical failures occurring. 23:07:56 <Timberwolf> Wait. Dorset is considered the West Country? 23:09:41 <Timberwolf> I feel that definition needs to be updated to consider the density of London emigrées. It's getting close to an exclave in the coastal areas. 23:32:09 <glx> TrueBrain: when using clang in msvc I often trigger out of memory error 23:36:49 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 23:36:50 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 23:43:53 *** tokai has quit IRC 23:44:34 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 23:45:47 *** Smedles has quit IRC 23:46:04 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 23:52:41 *** Smedles has joined #openttd