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00:36:39 *** glx has quit IRC 00:58:09 *** yeoldetoast has joined #openttd 01:07:28 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 01:23:58 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 01:58:30 *** kgarza_ has joined #openttd 02:05:42 *** kgarza has quit IRC 02:37:15 *** debdog has joined #openttd 02:40:37 *** godbed has quit IRC 04:48:35 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 05:12:03 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 05:47:40 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 05:58:20 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 06:07:31 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:13:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] LordAro commented on issue #234: [uk_UA] Translator access request https://git.io/JCkxG 06:37:27 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:45:14 <Gustavo6046> ld.lld: error: Invalid record (Producer: 'LLVM13.0.0git' Reader: 'LLVM 12.0.0') 06:45:18 <Gustavo6046> Ugh, my system is a bit messy right now. 06:58:45 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 07:54:23 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:54:26 <andythenorth> yo 07:54:32 <andythenorth> let's talk about probability! 07:54:42 <andythenorth> everyone's favourite branch of maths, right? 07:55:08 <andythenorth> industry A has a 25% chance of doubling production every 3 months 07:55:20 <andythenorth> industry B has a 25% chance of doubling production every 6 months 07:55:28 <andythenorth> after 10 years, which has more production? 08:02:48 *** yeoldetoast has quit IRC 08:04:14 *** yeoldetoast has joined #openttd 08:07:50 *** Progman has joined #openttd 08:29:28 <andythenorth> where is Eddi|zuHause when we need him? :P 08:30:08 <Rubidium> that depends on the initial production; are those the same? 08:30:25 <andythenorth> yes 08:30:27 <andythenorth> 100% 08:30:34 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 08:31:02 <andythenorth> this is independent probabilities? 08:31:15 <andythenorth> but on a map with enough industries, a consistent pattern would emerge? 08:31:30 * andythenorth mostly failed probability and statistics exams 08:32:48 <andythenorth> oh there's a simulator https://www.mathsisfun.com/data/quincunx.html 08:42:13 <peter1138> Needs a faster speed than 200. 08:42:39 <andythenorth> hmm 08:42:55 <andythenorth> if only OpenTTD had some kind of random industry production change cb.... 08:43:10 <peter1138> Use presignals 08:44:05 <andythenorth> block 08:44:14 <peter1138> Implied. 08:44:54 <andythenorth> when did smooth economy get added anyway? 08:45:00 * andythenorth can't find any forum history of it 08:50:02 <peter1138> A while ago :) 08:50:15 <peter1138> Hmm, problem with expensive cycle computers is the batteries don't last forever. 08:50:57 <peter1138> My ~3 year old Edge 120 is meant to be able to last 15 hours, but shows most of the battery used after an hour or so... 08:51:00 <andythenorth> solar! 08:51:05 <andythenorth> hub generator 08:51:23 <peter1138> I have a dynamo hub on my touring bike, but no USB output. 08:51:44 <peter1138> Maybe I can splice one in. 08:52:30 <peter1138> Sinewave Revolution USB Charger. £119.99. No. 08:54:46 <andythenorth> 5v output? 08:54:59 <andythenorth> it's only 2 or 4 wires or something 08:55:07 * andythenorth looked into it once 08:55:08 <peter1138> Dynamo output is "iffy". 08:55:16 <andythenorth> oh you'd need something to smooth it out 08:55:20 <andythenorth> yeah faff 08:55:23 <andythenorth> new batteries? 08:55:31 <peter1138> Not replaceable :/ 08:55:41 <peter1138> Well, probably is with the right tools. 08:56:49 <peter1138> Oh, it's a Edge 130, not 120. Last time I rode it decided to switch off the GPS which was less than helpful. 08:57:10 <peter1138> "To open the 130, you need to heat up the display with a hairdryer." 08:57:11 <peter1138> Feck. 08:57:48 <andythenorth> you'll need a splonger 08:58:19 <andythenorth> or was it a spudger? 08:58:45 <peter1138> Original battery is 180mAh, pretty tiny. 09:03:59 <peter1138> Mind you th 09:04:34 <peter1138> Mind you, just the front dynamo lamp on my bike costs £130+ to replace. It looks like a small shell with an LED in it.... 09:09:18 <andythenorth> are bike parts now made by Apple? 09:09:30 <andythenorth> or expensive things are just expensive? 09:10:30 <peter1138> Yeah. It's decent German stuff, not knock-off tat from Amazon. 10:06:39 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 10:06:52 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 10:10:13 *** tokai has joined #openttd 10:10:13 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 10:17:00 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 10:52:23 *** Samu has joined #openttd 11:21:51 <andythenorth> so nobody wanted to talk about probability :P 11:21:53 * andythenorth has lunch 11:26:11 <andythenorth> I'm not sure this is correct at all https://datagenetics.com/blog/march92020/index.html 11:26:30 <andythenorth> claims that rolling two dice, probability of 2 sixes is 36 11:26:37 <andythenorth> for fairly weighted dice 11:27:11 <andythenorth> BUT also demonstrates mathematically that rolling one die twice in succession, probability of 2 sixes is 42 11:27:26 <andythenorth> (1/36 and 1/42) 11:28:07 <andythenorth> why does introducing a temporal order make the probability dependent not independent? 11:28:42 <andythenorth> this is probably too much on-topic for this channel to discuss :) 11:28:47 <andythenorth> RNG in games :P 11:32:10 <Rubidium> andythenorth: I think it's a bit like the Monty Hall problem 11:33:13 <Rubidium> as you're only going to roll the second die if the first die is 6 11:33:26 <andythenorth> ah 11:33:33 <andythenorth> yes that changes causally 11:35:15 <andythenorth> oh I just understood Monty Hall 11:35:20 <andythenorth> first time I got it 11:35:30 <andythenorth> it's sooooo simple, and sooooo counter intuitive 11:40:48 <andythenorth> it's really easy to miss that the host knows where the goats and car are 11:47:53 <Timberwolf> Pick the door the host just opened. 11:48:08 <Timberwolf> I already have a car. I don't have a goat. That's clearly the option of maximal gain,. 11:56:21 <andythenorth> stick with the door you chose then 11:57:51 * andythenorth will be having many adventures in industry RNG 11:58:03 <andythenorth> map-global storage for industry grf anyone? 11:58:31 <andythenorth> my flash game career taught me that "RNG is bad" 11:58:35 <andythenorth> fake RNG is what makes good games 11:59:26 <andythenorth> but fake RNG isn't possible without map-global registers 12:01:24 <andythenorth> 256 registers per grf, stored in the map, only the grf can write, others can read maybe 12:01:41 <andythenorth> accessed via a specific var number, because PARENT -> PARENT is not a thing 12:02:06 <andythenorth> hmm dunno how we'd write though, vars are read only? 12:02:09 * Timberwolf suffers flashbacks to Civ 2 combat and/or X-Com aimed shots. 12:02:20 <andythenorth> such RNG 12:12:22 <andythenorth> not just you Timberwolf :P http://forum.wotblitz.eu/index.php?/topic/54982-rigged-rng-is-it-real/ 12:12:31 <andythenorth> http://forum.wotblitz.eu/index.php?/topic/54982-rigged-rng-is-it-real/page__pid__828827#entry828827 12:18:18 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 12:19:54 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 12:56:33 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 13:25:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler opened issue #9440: [Bug]: Inflation breaks negative cargo payments https://git.io/JCtHI 13:28:53 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #9440: [Bug]: Inflation breaks negative cargo payments https://git.io/JCtHI 13:29:06 <Samu> speaking of inflation, i gotta try my ai building ships with inflation 13:46:53 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 13:53:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on issue #9440: [Bug]: Inflation breaks negative cargo payments https://git.io/JCtHI 13:56:43 <Samu> what's a good map size for 15 companies? 13:57:03 <Samu> in your opinions 14:05:09 <Samu> arf, some AIs don't work too well with a £2,000,000,000 loan 14:19:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #9440: [Bug]: Inflation breaks negative cargo payments https://git.io/JCtHI 14:22:16 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 14:24:25 <Samu> a blessing and a curse 14:26:22 *** roadt_ has joined #openttd 14:33:24 *** roadt has quit IRC 14:40:11 <Samu> Elite Scam Servers 14:40:49 <Samu> how does it even manage to speed up the game is beyond me 14:42:19 *** glx has joined #openttd 14:42:19 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 14:46:33 <Samu> the way I read their service, they are messing with process priorities 14:46:47 <Samu> why not let the OS do that 14:46:58 <Samu> they're incompetent indeed 14:48:00 <Samu> they offer a service built on incompetence 14:52:28 <Samu> whenever i mess with process priorities myself, I often don't get the desired result. it may improve performance for this specific process, but it also means, all the other processes will suffer in some way 15:10:24 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 15:10:28 *** Belu has joined #openttd 15:12:49 <Belu> Hi, any ideea how to change a train's order going through all stations forwards and backwards too ? example station A > B > C > D > E when at the end E start backwards to all stations E > D > C > B > A 15:18:09 <glx> add all stops manually 15:18:53 <glx> ABCDEDCB 15:19:39 <Belu> by default in the original version when you added the GO TO order, and reached the end of all stations, the train stopped at every station again backwards by default, how can I change this to be default like in the original old version 15:19:45 <glx> but AE can be enough depending on order type 15:20:34 <Belu> don'twant to wate time everytime when I create a line to do this manual stopping thing 15:21:06 <SpComb> there's non-non-stop orders that stop at whatever intermediate stations the train happens to pass through, based on path-finding 15:21:33 <Belu> so it's something about path finding ? 15:21:42 <glx> no it's in the orders 15:21:57 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 15:22:14 <Belu> i wasted my time with orders and no logical success 15:22:22 <Belu> so should be some defaults in the settings 15:22:34 <glx> there are different options "go to" "go non stop to" "go via" and "go non stop via" 15:22:44 <glx> you want "go to" 15:22:53 <Belu> but I do not want to mess my time every time when i do this 15:23:00 <Belu> in the old version it was working naturally perfect 15:23:19 <Belu> it was all ok by default 15:24:10 <Belu> ......eaqch and every time waste my time additional thousands of clicks with messing time with "orders" 15:30:48 <milek7> there's setting for default order type 15:39:46 <glx> "New orders are 'non-stop' by default" this setting defaults to true 15:45:05 <glx> ah and it's a quite recent change (used to be false by default) 15:50:43 <Belu> PERFECT, THANK YOU 15:50:51 *** Belu has left #openttd 15:50:53 *** Taschi has joined #openttd 15:52:01 <LordAro> was non-stop one of the defaults we changed in 1.11 ? 15:52:14 <LordAro> or is that one of the ones that's been different for 10 years? 15:52:49 <glx> it's one of the changed default 15:57:07 <Taschi> am i the only one who was incredibly amused by the space heater spam post earlier today? 15:57:26 <LordAro> xkcd 1172? 15:57:40 <LordAro> oh, no, the actual spam 15:58:32 <Taschi> i mean, who runs space heater comparison sites anyway? that is inherently a very weird thing to me 16:19:27 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 16:37:23 *** Taschi has quit IRC 17:10:38 <Samu> wasn't dock radius 6 tiles? 17:11:01 <Samu> coverage area 17:13:31 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 17:17:24 <Samu> heh, 5 17:17:35 <Samu> i was under the impression it was 6 all this time 17:19:37 <glx> it's 5 or 4 17:30:54 <Samu> I'm getting abysmal graphics rendering performance 17:32:53 <Samu> let me see what happens when i close 70 windows 17:33:21 <Samu> problem gone instantly 17:33:50 <glx> depends on windows, some are not very optimised 17:34:33 <glx> full redraw with data fetching on each frame 17:35:42 <Samu> 15x road vehicle list, 15x ship list, 15x aircraft list, 15x station list 17:35:56 <Samu> 5 graphs 17:36:02 <Samu> global goal window 17:36:08 <Samu> script log window 17:36:14 <Samu> framerate window 17:36:20 <Samu> screenshot window 17:36:36 <LordAro> close them one (type) at a time 17:36:46 <Samu> too late, i pressed Delete 17:37:07 <glx> framerate is known to hit performance 17:37:28 <glx> but maybe some other window classes are concerned 17:37:50 <Samu> i had a screenshot of it yesterday, let me find 17:38:11 <glx> hmm station list maybe (waiting cargo graphbar) 17:38:27 <Samu> https://i.imgur.com/XBPU2h9.png 17:39:37 <Samu> it's my AI focused custom build 17:39:40 <glx> I can imagine graphs being a possible issue too 17:40:10 <glx> vehicle list should in theory not eat to much in the screenshot as they are folded 17:40:39 <glx> but get string for the title may consume 17:41:00 <LordAro> either way, screenshot on its own not enough 17:41:04 <LordAro> additional testing needed :) 17:41:20 <Samu> ewww, reopening closed windows, oh man, daunting quest 17:41:36 <glx> indeed, screenshot only shows an issue, but won't tell more 17:41:43 *** Flygon has quit IRC 17:44:06 <Samu> gonna open station list for testing 17:44:23 <glx> one class at a time :) 17:46:52 <Samu> there's a 500-800 ms spike with all 15 station lists open 17:47:01 <Samu> every 5 seconds or so 17:47:24 <Samu> oh, it's getting worse 17:48:08 *** yeoldetoast has quit IRC 17:50:01 *** roadt_ has quit IRC 17:50:26 <Samu> https://i.imgur.com/5fvYRMI.png 17:50:34 *** roadt_ has joined #openttd 17:52:09 <Samu> let me try now 15x road vehicles 17:53:19 <glx> for station list misc debug level 3 may give a hint 17:54:36 <glx> it's quite possible the list is resort every tick 17:55:39 <Samu> https://i.imgur.com/zK7A35q.png 17:55:46 <Samu> not terrible 17:55:52 <Samu> 15x road vehicles 17:56:53 <glx> not bad for the number of windows 17:57:05 <Samu> gonna have dinner, be back later to test this 17:58:21 <glx> station list could benefit from a resort on hundredth tick instead of game tick 17:58:36 <glx> but it's just a wild guess 18:29:36 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 18:39:43 *** Speedy` has quit IRC 18:48:01 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 18:52:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JCq7h 18:52:44 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 19:01:41 *** NGC3982 has quit IRC 19:03:59 *** NGC3982 has joined #openttd 19:07:23 <Samu> all 60 open again https://i.imgur.com/5ve19Ei.png 19:07:29 <Samu> the long spikes are back 19:09:31 <Samu> gonna close stations 19:09:43 *** NGC3982 has quit IRC 19:12:05 *** NGC3982 has joined #openttd 19:13:26 <Samu> the spikes disappear 19:13:33 <Samu> it's the stationlist 19:15:31 <Samu> i just dont understand how sometimes it spikes to 5000 ms 19:15:39 <Samu> it's usually 500 ms spikes 19:29:47 <Samu> lol 19:30:47 <Samu> i mistyped misc 19:30:53 <Samu> https://i.imgur.com/9HG1UtM.png 19:31:09 <Samu> is this where the error message is supposed to show? 20:00:34 <Samu> debuglevel misc=3, i notice multiple dbg: [misc] Building station list for company 'x' in a row 20:00:51 <Samu> that's what's causing the 5000 ms spikes 20:02:18 <Samu> each company takes aproximately 400-500 ms 20:02:47 <Samu> building vehicle lists in contrast build very very fast 20:13:44 *** NGC3982 has quit IRC 20:18:49 <andythenorth> and yet vehicle window kills FPS 20:18:51 <andythenorth> so eh 20:18:53 <andythenorth> go figure :) 20:26:05 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 20:32:20 *** gelignite has quit IRC 20:42:09 *** NGC3982 has joined #openttd 20:55:14 <Samu> LoadUnloadVehicle can send an invalidate window data to WC_STATION_LIST 20:56:07 <Samu> if (dirty_station) 20:58:56 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd 21:05:06 *** NGC3982 has quit IRC 21:05:15 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 21:06:39 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 21:06:50 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 21:08:44 *** NGC3982 has joined #openttd 21:09:14 *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC 21:13:36 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 21:22:00 <Samu> weird, InvalidateWindowData(WC_STATION_LIST, st->owner, 1); 21:22:10 *** Kitrana1 has joined #openttd 21:22:26 <Samu> InvalidateWindowData(WC_STATION_LIST, st->index); 21:22:58 <Samu> sometimes it's passing owner, sometimes it's passing station id 21:25:03 *** Samu has quit IRC 21:25:05 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 21:27:40 *** Kitrana has quit IRC 21:29:22 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 21:29:40 *** nielsm has quit IRC 22:09:24 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 22:11:09 <peter1138> Urgh, haproxy -> apache -> tomcat 22:45:39 *** gnu_jj_ has quit IRC 22:47:10 *** gnu_jj has joined #openttd 22:57:40 *** esselfe has quit IRC 23:07:44 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 23:10:32 *** esselfe has joined #openttd