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00:07:27 *** Tirili has quit IRC 00:52:25 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 00:52:40 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 02:24:14 *** Wuzzy has quit IRC 02:32:22 *** Zathras has joined #openttd 02:35:45 *** D-HUND has quit IRC 03:19:26 *** glx has quit IRC 03:57:31 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 05:42:22 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:07:26 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 06:12:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9447: Feature: allow the use of TURN to connect client and server together https://git.io/JWSjq 06:16:03 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:22:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] andythenorth commented on pull request #227: Fix f2cab72: Called procedures may receive wrong values in parameters https://git.io/JW9v2 06:34:55 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 07:20:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9447: Feature: allow the use of TURN to connect client and server together https://git.io/JW9GE 07:24:32 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 07:24:45 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 07:39:22 <TrueBrain> that sneaky moment Windows appears to have changed my mouse speed 07:39:32 <TrueBrain> that is very evil, as I fail to click on stuff :D 07:41:03 <TrueBrain> well, I incorrectly blame Windows ... I have a new mouse, and I forgot the buttons to change sensitivity aren't unbound yet 07:41:04 <TrueBrain> lol 07:53:34 <andythenorth> I blame Apple every time I accidentally hit the emojibar with a finger 07:53:56 <andythenorth> which has various surprising effects, like locking the mac, turning the screen brightness to 0, or stopping/starting music 08:33:17 *** Speedy` has joined #openttd 08:39:00 <andythenorth> FIRS is a giant adventure in 'run-time facts' vs. 'compile-time facts' :P 08:39:31 <andythenorth> especially because compile time is significant 08:39:40 <andythenorth> whereas run time isn't currently measured :P 08:40:09 <andythenorth> so my inclination is to push logic into run-time not compile time if I can 08:47:14 *** Progman has joined #openttd 08:54:00 <andythenorth> unrelated: child #1 asked why the fridge can't just close the door automatically, instead of beeping after 60 seconds of open door 08:54:09 <andythenorth> which is a good example of why Cache Invalidation is Hard 08:55:11 <TrueBrain> I am not sure I want to ask why you linked those two things together :P 08:57:16 <andythenorth> sometimes it's easier to just have a person decide when to shut the fridge 08:58:23 <TrueBrain> it should just have a proximity sensor 08:59:53 * andythenorth now designing a new fridge 09:00:37 <andythenorth> see also: why doesn't code write itself yet? 09:00:40 <andythenorth> and will it soon? 09:02:56 <TrueBrain> GitHub Copilot seems to do :P 09:21:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9447: Feature: allow the use of TURN to connect client and server together https://git.io/JW9FF 09:21:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9447: Feature: allow the use of TURN to connect client and server together https://git.io/JWDeR 09:23:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 opened pull request #9448: Small clean ups due to the introduction of GC https://git.io/JW9bX 09:24:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #9448: Small clean ups due to the introduction of GC https://git.io/JW9NO 09:27:29 <andythenorth> hmm 09:27:48 * andythenorth wants industries to calculate town 'happiness' and store it in a town register 09:28:02 <andythenorth> value depends on internal factors of industry 09:28:05 <andythenorth> updated monthly 09:28:25 <andythenorth> town might have n industries that want to write to 1 register 09:28:39 <andythenorth> this is all possible 09:28:50 <andythenorth> but there's no reliable way to zero the register every month :P 09:28:51 <andythenorth> oof 09:28:54 <andythenorth> FML 09:32:11 <andythenorth> there are various stupid tricks I could do counting industries 09:32:24 <andythenorth> but industries can open or close during the month, which messes that up :) 09:32:29 * andythenorth all the lolz 09:32:33 * andythenorth shopping 09:32:36 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 09:42:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 merged pull request #9448: Small clean ups due to the introduction of GC https://git.io/JW9bX 10:14:38 <peter1138> Hmm, since switching to display port monitors, my desktop configuration seems to reconfigure whenever I turn a screen off. That never happened with DVI/HDMI. 10:17:33 <TrueBrain> annoying isn't it? 10:19:00 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 10:19:00 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 10:26:02 *** tokai has quit IRC 11:00:56 *** Samu has joined #openttd 11:01:08 <Samu> https://servers.openttd.org/server/479eea58aabad91b722f9c794d9fe53f gamescript unknown? 11:24:53 <nielsm> for some reason all or almost all DP monitors switch off the presence signal when you turn them off on the monitor's power button, or switch the monitor to a different input source 11:26:25 <Rubidium> Samu: yes, your server is too old so it does not advertise that. If you want it to show the "correct" value, you'll have to upgrade to master as of at most a few days ago 11:28:05 *** glx has joined #openttd 11:28:36 *** glx is now known as Guest1256 11:29:10 *** Guest1256 is now known as glx 11:46:02 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 11:52:46 <andythenorth> ok so 256 tick and monthly callbacks from town to industry grf? 11:52:53 <andythenorth> but there's no action 0 for towns 11:52:59 <andythenorth> so how would that work? 11:55:33 <Samu> too old? its 1.11.2 11:55:43 <Samu> it's a brand new fresh feature 11:55:46 <Samu> i see 12:04:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/py-protocol] TrueBrain opened pull request #12: Feature: support Game Coordinator protocol 4 https://git.io/JWHKe 12:05:59 <andythenorth> meh 12:06:08 * andythenorth is back at 'what are the game loops' :P 12:06:17 <andythenorth> last time we talked about that, it went so ...great 12:06:27 <andythenorth> trying to talk to programmers about game design :P 12:07:11 <andythenorth> https://media.tenor.com/images/a4598777f046ff2daae183046bc60a8b/tenor.gif 12:07:32 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest1259 12:07:34 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 12:08:24 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/py-protocol] TrueBrain updated pull request #12: Feature: support Game Coordinator protocol 4 https://git.io/JWHKe 12:08:37 <andythenorth> so currently we have....a GS with a global view of the map 12:08:42 <andythenorth> but it can't handle events 12:08:55 <andythenorth> and we have grf, which can handle specific events defined in the API 12:09:00 <andythenorth> but has no global view 12:09:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/game-coordinator] TrueBrain opened pull request #25: Feature: reduce bandwidth needed to serve clients the serverlist https://git.io/JWH6n 12:09:25 <andythenorth> it's so lolz, the whole thing is like the 3rd flash game I ever wrote 12:09:53 <andythenorth> flash could have event handling, it could have independent loops on objects, and it could have a master controller loop 12:10:09 <andythenorth> mixing all of them with no clear design was...possible 12:10:20 <andythenorth> but life was better with almost ANY other approach 12:12:28 *** Guest1259 has quit IRC 12:17:18 <glx> GS can handle events 12:17:52 <glx> https://docs.openttd.org/gs-api/classGSEvent.html 12:18:09 <andythenorth> oh 12:18:18 <andythenorth> so why is it said here sometimes that GS can't have callbacks? 12:18:24 * andythenorth puzzled by it all :) 12:18:43 <andythenorth> if GS can handle industry close, why not industry 256 produce loop? 12:18:48 <andythenorth> and then delete grf? 12:19:08 <TrueBrain> events != callbacks :) 12:19:09 <andythenorth> why do we even keep grf? 12:19:13 <glx> Callbacks and events are different 12:19:21 <TrueBrain> with callbacks we general mean that something can be done inline 12:19:26 <TrueBrain> events are triggered to be picked up when-ever 12:19:42 * andythenorth googling 12:19:43 <TrueBrain> sync vs async etc 12:19:47 <andythenorth> ok 12:19:53 <TrueBrain> callbacks are sync, events are async, in this context 12:19:56 * andythenorth avoids clicking any links with 'promises' in the title 12:20:07 <andythenorth> ok so one has to return 12:20:20 <andythenorth> the other is a notfiication 12:20:29 <glx> Events are fire and forget 12:20:48 <TrueBrain> if I ring your door, you are free to go to the door or not, it is just an event 12:20:56 <andythenorth> yup 12:21:03 <TrueBrain> if I slap you in your face, the hurt is instant and you react to it .. your reaction is a callback 12:21:04 <TrueBrain> :P 12:21:17 <TrueBrain> (worst comparison EVAH) 12:21:54 <andythenorth> it creates a vivid picture 12:22:22 <andythenorth> ok so GS has a global view of the map, and events. But doesn't have callbacks 12:22:40 <andythenorth> so we have objects that require a view on global map state, but can't access it 12:22:57 <andythenorth> and we have a controller for global map state, but it can't influence the objects 12:23:13 * andythenorth will just write some more grf code with nasty edge cases 12:25:33 <andythenorth> meanwhile, can anyone review this? :) https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/pull/227 12:26:03 <andythenorth> I could yolo approve it, on the basis that the test case passes 12:27:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 opened pull request #9449: Fix/Feature: (re)introduce NewGRF names for (unknown) NewGRFs https://git.io/JWH1G 12:27:50 *** glx is now known as Guest1260 12:27:50 *** glx_ has joined #openttd 12:27:50 *** glx_ is now known as glx 12:27:50 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 12:28:15 *** Guest1260 has quit IRC 12:31:02 <andythenorth> ok so for co-ordinating industries writing to one register 12:31:16 <andythenorth> maybe I can count how many industries in the town will write to the register 12:31:33 <andythenorth> and then increment another register each time an industry writes 12:31:45 <andythenorth> then reset the counter to 0 on the last industry 12:32:48 <andythenorth> this has the following edge cases 12:32:57 <andythenorth> * I mess up somehow 12:33:27 <andythenorth> * new industry opens in the town, changing the count 12:33:34 <andythenorth> * industry closes in the town, changing the count 12:34:00 <glx> you're lucky, industries are handled sequentially :) 12:34:05 <andythenorth> * player uses date cheat, which _might_ cause some industries to not write, causing out of sync values 12:35:00 <glx> forget cheats, if player use them bad things are expected 12:35:04 <andythenorth> glx sequentially when? :) In the 256 tick and monthly cbs? 12:38:19 * andythenorth wonders how many game ticks it takes to run all the industry cbs 12:41:01 <andythenorth> designing industry grf stuff is a bit like playing chess 12:41:05 * andythenorth not great at chess 12:46:52 <Samu> i found some NULL's 12:47:21 <Samu> os_abstraction.cpp line 84 and 85 12:48:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9449: Fix/Feature: (re)introduce NewGRF names for (unknown) NewGRFs https://git.io/JWH9R 12:48:35 <TrueBrain> OMG! NO! NO! YOU DID?! Guess we should now burn the game ... unacceptable ... :P 12:49:08 *** Zathras is now known as debdog 12:51:19 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/py-protocol] TrueBrain updated pull request #12: Feature: support Game Coordinator protocol 4 https://git.io/JWHKe 12:51:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/game-coordinator] TrueBrain updated pull request #25: Feature: reduce bandwidth needed to serve clients the serverlist https://git.io/JWH6n 12:52:51 <Samu> also found NULL is video drivers, i wonder if some NULLs are exceptions 12:52:58 <Samu> win32_v.cpp 12:52:59 <andythenorth> if there was a town cb that could just handle resetting the register 12:53:09 <andythenorth> delegating one of the industries to do it is blah blah 12:53:30 <andythenorth> lots of compile-time templating to get all the counts of all the industries 12:53:39 <andythenorth> and lots of run-time counting of industries 12:54:16 <andythenorth> alternatively, if there was way to provide exactly 1 of a specific industry type in every time 12:54:20 <andythenorth> that could act as the controller 12:54:25 <andythenorth> time / town /s 12:54:26 <Samu> and lots of NULL's in squirrel 12:54:38 * andythenorth watches teddy bears not communicating :P 12:58:24 <glx> andythenorth: monthly CB is called for all industries on first tick of the month 12:58:54 <glx> ordered by industry ID 12:59:02 <glx> *sorted 13:00:00 <andythenorth> so game will never advance to next tick until all industries have returned? 13:00:56 <glx> yup 13:01:09 * andythenorth doesn't want player to see weird town behaviour because game advanced whilst register values are being recalculated by industries 13:01:52 <andythenorth> ok so that's blocking, and no industries can open/close? 13:01:56 * andythenorth could just read src 13:02:04 <andythenorth> it's probably industry_cmd.cpp right? 13:02:13 <andythenorth> my favourite file in src 13:03:07 <andythenorth> hmm maybe industry is closed within ChangeIndustryProduction 13:03:18 <glx> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/5dd524139fe46c0ea28206e30fb2311acb72ae82/src/industry_cmd.cpp#L2936 13:03:56 <andythenorth> I am looking at L2933-4 13:04:09 <andythenorth> that means maintaining a counter needs a bit more thought 13:04:35 <andythenorth> it's ok, unless the last industry to be incremented closes 13:04:40 <andythenorth> then the counter won't be reset 13:04:41 <glx> ah yes if it was decided to close, it's one during the llop 13:04:46 <Samu> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/network/core/os_abstraction.cpp#L84-L85 are these NULL meant to be nullptr? 13:04:55 <glx> *loop 13:05:13 <andythenorth> I could store the last value for number of industries, and compare to current var result 13:05:21 <glx> Samu: no, it's windows API 13:05:34 <andythenorth> then I know if number of industries changed 13:05:35 <Samu> interesting 13:05:44 <andythenorth> maybe just hit the panic button if the 2 values don't match 13:06:22 <andythenorth> or I could define that these industries never close 13:06:37 <andythenorth> they don't close in current FIRS 13:06:44 <andythenorth> player magic bulldozer is a different case 13:07:16 <glx> funny to use windows API there 13:07:20 <andythenorth> there was a town grf spec once :P 13:07:24 * andythenorth wonders what happened to it 13:08:38 <andythenorth> frosch special :) https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Development/Design%20Drafts/NewGRF/Town%20Control 13:11:55 <glx> oh I see it's to translate windows error code to string 13:12:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/py-protocol] TrueBrain updated pull request #12: Feature: support Game Coordinator protocol 4 https://git.io/JWHKe 13:12:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/py-protocol] TrueBrain updated pull request #12: Feature: support Game Coordinator protocol 4 https://git.io/JWHKe 13:13:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/game-coordinator] TrueBrain updated pull request #25: Feature: reduce bandwidth needed to serve clients the serverlist https://git.io/JWH6n 13:26:40 <andythenorth> so every town gets a power station? 13:26:49 <andythenorth> for happiness? :) 13:27:04 <andythenorth> no electricity grid, just municipal generators :( 13:29:23 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 13:31:03 <andythenorth> what's the unit for town happiness? :P 13:31:06 <andythenorth> 'smiles'? 13:32:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/game-coordinator] TrueBrain updated pull request #25: Feature: reduce bandwidth needed to serve clients the serverlist https://git.io/JWH6n 13:33:48 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/master-server] TrueBrain opened pull request #48: Change: store NewGRFs in redis backend in format the Game Coordinator can read https://git.io/JWHhO 13:36:08 <andythenorth> so is it raining in mainland Europe? 13:37:04 <glx> not here, but central has quite too much 13:38:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/py-protocol] TrueBrain updated pull request #12: Feature: support Game Coordinator protocol 4 https://git.io/JWHKe 13:40:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/py-protocol] TrueBrain updated pull request #12: Feature: support Game Coordinator protocol 4 https://git.io/JWHKe 13:40:46 <TrueBrain> can I stop making stupid mistakes? :( 13:40:58 <andythenorth> are you asking for permission? 13:41:06 <andythenorth> or is it an empirical question? 13:41:08 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: well, we have one village idiot in the Netherlands that says it is a hoax 13:41:19 <TrueBrain> but I am pretty sure a lot of people strongly disagree 13:41:25 <andythenorth> what isn't a hoax these days? 13:41:26 <TrueBrain> given their house is ... few feet under water 13:41:53 <TrueBrain> well, in a country as mine, you really don't want to say on national television that you think it is a hoax that parts of the country are now under water that shouldn't be ... 13:41:57 <andythenorth> welll 13:42:03 <TrueBrain> that is a really really bad idea :P 13:42:07 <andythenorth> that's what they want you to think? 13:42:12 <andythenorth> oh conspiracies 13:42:25 <andythenorth> it's like shooting fish in a barrel 13:42:32 <TrueBrain> I mean ..stuff like vaccines, people cannot touch, so they believe what-ever 13:42:44 <andythenorth> there is no situation for which it isn't trivial to devise a conspiracy 13:42:45 <TrueBrain> but the fact that a cow traveled for 100km in the stream of water to be fished out, alive 13:42:48 <TrueBrain> that is ... euh .. yeah .... :P 13:42:56 <andythenorth> 'fake cow' 13:43:22 <andythenorth> it's much more psychologically reassuring to see through what 'they' want you to believe 13:43:22 <TrueBrain> people in a country like mine don't tend to like being played like a fool for something you can touch and see for yourself :) 13:43:41 <TrueBrain> so I got some popcorn and I am just watching this "hoax" theory unfold 13:44:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/py-protocol] TrueBrain merged pull request #12: Feature: support Game Coordinator protocol 4 https://git.io/JWHKe 13:44:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/py-protocol] TrueBrain created new tag: 0.5.0 https://git.io/JWQvc 13:44:43 <andythenorth> I knew the internet was over a few years ago 13:44:51 <andythenorth> I found a long thread on a dictionary forum 13:44:55 <andythenorth> about roofs vs rooves 13:45:13 <andythenorth> which somebody turned into a libtard hate thread 13:45:32 <andythenorth> which would have been awesome trolling, but was almost 99% certainly real belief 13:45:46 <andythenorth> apparently words really musn't ever change 13:45:49 <andythenorth> or be used differently 13:45:57 <andythenorth> it's basically communism and the NWO and genocide if they do 13:46:21 * andythenorth could discuss this at length, but eh 13:46:58 <andythenorth> my favourite thing about the conspiracy theorists is that they label any dissenters as 'useful idiots' 13:47:13 <andythenorth> which is a very amusing failure to reflect 13:47:33 <andythenorth> as most of them are simply spreading rumours planted by shysters for money, to shill for the right, or actual fascists 13:47:38 <andythenorth> or by putin 13:47:58 <andythenorth> 'all conspiracy theories are now just putin' is like conspiracy meta-meta 13:48:34 <andythenorth> hmm my neighbour has decided to practice basketball, this is ruining my sunshine buzz 13:48:43 <andythenorth> bounce-bounce-bounce-crash (shot) 13:49:03 *** SuperTNT has joined #openttd 13:49:06 <TrueBrain> for some reason I think you are the one bouncing around :P 13:49:14 <TrueBrain> can you check your frame of reference? :D 13:49:34 <andythenorth> do you know your frame of reference is stable? 13:49:39 <andythenorth> it might be moving, expanding or contracting 13:49:45 <SuperTNT> hi 13:49:45 *** Progman has quit IRC 13:49:46 <TrueBrain> irrelevant 13:49:55 <TrueBrain> as long as we agree about how mine differs from yours :P 13:49:59 <andythenorth> that's the conclusion from philosophy of science also yes 13:50:07 <andythenorth> we have to have one, or we can't get anything done 13:50:40 <TrueBrain> I love those people that say: the earth cannot be going in circles around the sun, as I would feel the 400 m/s (or what-ever speed we go through space) 13:50:52 <TrueBrain> and hi SuperTNT , don't mind us not talking about OpenTTD :P 13:51:00 <andythenorth> and what about the air drag? :P 13:51:07 <andythenorth> the atmosphere would be torn off, right? 13:51:40 <Timberwolf> andythenorth: our attached next door has spent most of last week "knocking in" a cricket bat. 13:51:43 <TrueBrain> @calc 110000 / 3.6 13:51:43 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 30555.555555555555 13:51:49 <TrueBrain> I was slightly off, it seems :) 13:52:03 *** SuperTNT has left #openttd 13:52:18 <Timberwolf> Every so often you're working and just hear this distant "whack! whack! whack!" 13:52:22 <andythenorth> @Timberwolf my 4 adjoining neighbours have 12 kids between them, plus 2 of mine 13:52:39 <andythenorth> oh and there's one other house, which has people with visible and audible mental health issues 13:53:16 <andythenorth> it's generally not a peaceful milieu 13:53:27 <Timberwolf> Heh. 13:53:46 <andythenorth> also my neighbour is full Italian, and deploys Italian parenting volumes 13:53:56 <andythenorth> which at least makes it a bit like being on holiday 13:53:56 <Timberwolf> We have big dogs and I have a very questionable record collection, that's our contribution. 13:54:00 <TrueBrain> heuh talksuh likeuh thisuh? :D 13:54:15 <andythenorth> TrueBrain didn't we agree not to do accents? :P 13:54:26 <andythenorth> I think you specifically told me not to do it :P 13:54:30 <TrueBrain> I absolutely adore Italian accents :) 13:54:36 <Timberwolf> Heh. Xlassic Essex/East London border in next door's case, which is similar on the volume scale. 13:54:42 <Timberwolf> *classic 13:54:51 <andythenorth> I do enjoy having Italian neighbours, it's fun 13:54:53 <TrueBrain> it makes the language feel so much more ... something :) 13:55:09 <andythenorth> also is Timberwolf Industries done yet? 13:55:29 <Timberwolf> I need to stop playing RCT and get back to voxelling. 13:55:38 <TrueBrain> you get a voxel, and you get a voxel 13:55:48 <andythenorth> voxel industry 13:56:40 * andythenorth should stopping watching Life of Boris on Youtube 13:58:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/game-coordinator] TrueBrain merged pull request #25: Feature: reduce bandwidth needed to serve clients the serverlist https://git.io/JWH6n 13:58:45 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/master-server] TrueBrain merged pull request #48: Change: store NewGRFs in redis backend in format the Game Coordinator can read https://git.io/JWHhO 14:02:13 <Timberwolf> Actually no, what I really need to stop doing is seeing advice on the Discord and going, "is that really the case? I should test this." 14:10:23 <andythenorth> but 2-way EOL is better right? 14:10:27 <andythenorth> and 4 tile signal spacing 14:10:31 <andythenorth> and NPF > YAPF 14:10:35 <andythenorth> these ARE KNOWN 14:10:42 * andythenorth needs electricity for laptop 14:10:53 <andythenorth> gardens don't have many power sockets, generally :( 14:13:29 <glx> solar laptop should exist 14:20:01 <andythenorth> 100W of solar needed 14:20:37 <andythenorth> hmm V=IR or something 14:20:39 <FLHerne> In this weather, that's only half a square metre or so 14:20:40 <andythenorth> 100W at 12v 14:20:41 <andythenorth> https://www.photonicuniverse.com/en/catalog/full/182-100W-monocrystalline-solar-panel-with-5m-cable.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIr5aGp-js8QIV0uvtCh18ogoYEAQYBSABEgJzTvD_BwE 14:20:50 <andythenorth> what does USB-C run at for volts? 14:20:52 <FLHerne> maybe less with bifacials 14:21:06 <andythenorth> also it's not actually 100w 14:21:20 <andythenorth> my 100W charger causes the mac to go into thermal shutdown 14:21:26 <andythenorth> the Apple ones are about 85W 14:21:50 <FLHerne> Up to 20V, depends a lot on the widget 14:22:04 <andythenorth> https://www.amazon.co.uk/BigBlue-Foldable-Compatible-Portable-Cellphone-100W-Black/dp/B083N1XJ1D 14:22:07 <FLHerne> I think there's a new spec recently that allows even higher voltage/power 14:23:04 <FLHerne> but you shouldn't really need 100W for a laptop 14:23:13 <FLHerne> unless it's some mad gaming thing 14:23:24 <glx> it's a mac :) 14:23:39 <glx> so similar to mad gaming thing 14:23:40 <andythenorth> it will keep alive on 30W 14:23:48 <FLHerne> Normal laptops are about 5-10W idle and 60W max under load 14:23:56 <andythenorth> it's a horrible balance between 'charging' and 'thermal shutdown' 14:24:03 <andythenorth> it's a crapmac 14:24:24 <andythenorth> 105W of parts in a chassis with 85W of cooling 14:24:40 <glx> smart design :) 14:24:46 <andythenorth> insanely great 14:25:05 <andythenorth> the joke is that I should have bought the i7 14:25:12 <andythenorth> and the lower spec GPU 14:25:33 <glx> can't you just disable GPU and use i7 one ? 14:26:12 <andythenorth> no, they removed the user control over the GPU 14:26:18 <andythenorth> and the CPU is i9, which cooks 14:26:38 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 14:26:54 <glx> ah yes i9 in a laptop, what a silly idea 14:27:02 <andythenorth> it can do about 2 mins of maximum single core performance, then it throttles to about 10% of CPU 14:27:11 <andythenorth> it's constantly hot to the touch 14:27:43 <andythenorth> it runs about 50 degrees idle, and gets up to 80 degrees under load. At about 85 degrees it just turns off 14:28:08 <andythenorth> I am waiting for the ARM thing :( 14:30:49 <FLHerne> Are there no magic OS tuning flags? 14:31:16 <FLHerne> I had a Thinkpad that did something like that, but I could set it to not use the highest-power CState 14:34:22 <andythenorth> there was this, but not working on the model I have https://volta.garymathews.com/ 14:36:46 <andythenorth> hmm the Radeon Pro 5500M is an 85W part :o 14:37:08 <andythenorth> 85W TDP, goes up to 105W 14:37:11 <andythenorth> ooof 14:51:07 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 15:13:38 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 15:18:58 <Samu> what is the Base category of ai_settings.ini? 15:19:06 <Samu> i mean script_settings.ini 15:22:02 <Samu> there used to be a 'base' 15:27:04 <Samu> well, it's still a GameSetting 15:27:15 <Samu> but i wonder how it got that 15:41:41 <glx> nothing changed with setting definition, it's just a big file split into smaller ones, but the content is exactly the same 15:44:25 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 15:56:51 <Samu> each setting has it's 'base' gone 16:05:27 <Samu> ah, found it 16:05:28 <Samu> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/4c0e083128a4e9c3eefefaab70648057bd1d9fb2#diff-32e10f0bcde7f768e6198eb97282dc4a49b00404160c6d7859ec08978cc117c8 16:12:32 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 16:17:25 *** Gustavo6046_ has joined #openttd 16:18:36 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 16:22:15 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 16:22:15 *** Gustavo6046_ is now known as Gustavo6046 16:26:45 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 16:31:19 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 updated pull request #9449: Fix/Feature: (re)introduce NewGRF names for (unknown) NewGRFs https://git.io/JWH1G 16:31:22 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9449: Fix/Feature: (re)introduce NewGRF names for (unknown) NewGRFs https://git.io/JWQ5l 16:45:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9449: Fix/Feature: (re)introduce NewGRF names for (unknown) NewGRFs https://git.io/JWQN4 16:46:55 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 16:50:39 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 16:52:41 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 16:55:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/game-coordinator] TrueBrain created new tag: 0.4.0 https://git.io/JWQpt 16:55:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/master-server] TrueBrain created new tag: 1.2.5 https://git.io/JWQpq 16:55:15 <TrueBrain> TO PRODUCTION WITH YOU! :) 16:55:26 <TrueBrain> lets see how it crashes and burns :) 16:55:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 updated pull request #9449: Fix/Feature: (re)introduce NewGRF names for (unknown) NewGRFs https://git.io/JWH1G 16:56:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #9449: Fix/Feature: (re)introduce NewGRF names for (unknown) NewGRFs https://git.io/JWQpu 16:58:35 <TrueBrain> this also means it would finally be useful to show what NewGRFs a server is running exactly on the web :P 16:58:52 <TrueBrain> it now just says the amount of NewGRFs, and before that it showed the GRFIDs .. like that means anything to anyone :D 16:59:44 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 17:01:42 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 17:02:10 <TrueBrain> owh, right, for the next 15 minutes the API will be in a bit of trouble .. 17:02:15 <TrueBrain> should correct itself within 15 minutes :) 17:07:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/master-server] TrueBrain opened pull request #49: Fix d778f557: "name" field should always be set, even if it is not known https://git.io/JW7es 17:08:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/master-server] TrueBrain updated pull request #49: Fix d778f557: NewGRF entries were not following new specs https://git.io/JW7es 17:08:26 <TrueBrain> no clue why that didn't show up during testing, really odd 17:08:56 <Rubidium> no staging master server? 17:09:07 <TrueBrain> yeah, there is 17:09:12 <TrueBrain> but that requires a source modification 17:09:16 <TrueBrain> so I test that stuff locally :D 17:09:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/master-server] TrueBrain merged pull request #49: Fix d778f557: NewGRF entries were not following new specs https://git.io/JW7es 17:09:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/master-server] TrueBrain created new tag: 1.2.6 https://git.io/JW7eN 17:09:58 <TrueBrain> right ... 15 more minutes before everything works again :P 17:10:36 <andythenorth_> EVERYTHING 17:11:05 <TrueBrain> ah, no, I only tested it with the same NewGRF ID via a GC-connected server 17:11:06 <TrueBrain> that explains 17:11:21 <TrueBrain> owh well .. production is the best test-ground out there :) 17:14:23 <TrueBrain> good thing with 1.12 is, that it no longer will take 15 minutes for everything to settle in again .. but rather a few seconds :D 17:17:12 <andythenorth_> :) 17:19:31 <TrueBrain> right, seems master-server recovered nicely .. now to wait for game-coordinator .. ALMOST :P 17:20:32 <TrueBrain> hmm .. how sure am I that it recovers .. now that is a good question too :P 17:22:34 <TrueBrain> there we go 17:22:36 <TrueBrain> magic! 17:23:00 <TrueBrain> and it correctly mentions "Unknown" for all these old servers 17:23:01 <TrueBrain> nice 17:23:55 <TrueBrain> server-listing is so fast now :D 17:26:17 <TrueBrain> w00p, and if a new servers announce a NewGRF by name, it updates the entry as expected 17:26:31 <TrueBrain> so looking at old servers with a new client shows the NewGRF by name correctly after that :) 17:26:50 <TrueBrain> I like this approach Rubidium :) Feels solid :D 17:30:38 <TrueBrain> one "mistake" I guess could be considered that the updating of a name doesn't give it a new index 17:30:45 <TrueBrain> so clients already having the listing don't see it 17:30:55 <TrueBrain> but ... yeah, not sure that matters :P 17:31:37 <TrueBrain> @calc 2**32 / 10000 / 24 / 365 17:31:37 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 49.02930703196347 17:31:51 <TrueBrain> in 50 years we have to reset the database "worst case" .. the cursor might wrap by that time :P 17:32:43 <TrueBrain> well, no, that is a very silly worst-case 17:32:51 <TrueBrain> @calc 2**32 / 500 / 365 17:32:51 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 23534.067375342467 17:32:55 <TrueBrain> yeah, we are fine :P 17:36:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 merged pull request #9449: Fix/Feature: (re)introduce NewGRF names for (unknown) NewGRFs https://git.io/JWH1G 17:36:47 <TrueBrain> w00p 17:36:58 <Rubidium> just one turn to go ;) 17:37:12 *** Progman has joined #openttd 17:42:31 <TrueBrain> yup .. I have an idea how to do it .. just have to make it a reality now .. :P 18:11:11 *** Flygon has quit IRC 18:40:52 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 18:50:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JW7BU 18:50:28 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 19:33:42 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 19:47:50 * andythenorth_ more adventures in industry <-> town communication 20:03:19 * peter1138 more adventures in beer 20:04:25 <Samu> I got approved PRs! 20:06:20 <TrueBrain> peter1138: something to celebrate? :) 20:06:42 <peter1138> Only that the beer is chilled 20:07:05 <TrueBrain> you make an excellent point 20:07:09 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 20:08:43 <andythenorth_> beers 20:08:52 <andythenorth_> I am going to have cold beer in hot hot tub 20:09:03 <andythenorth_> if my beer was called 'Cold Beer' 20:09:12 <andythenorth_> I could have cold cold beer in hot hot tub 20:11:02 <TrueBrain> heap-use-after-free 20:11:03 <TrueBrain> awwhhhh 20:11:19 <andythenorth_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWVQwIDjtNY 20:11:21 <TrueBrain> SetDParamStr is so annoying 20:11:45 <FLHerne> andythenorth_: Remember there's a town called Beer 20:11:55 <andythenorth_> I have been there 20:12:03 <andythenorth_> I had sunday lunch there once 20:12:16 <FLHerne> Well, you can have your cold cold beer in Beer 20:12:24 <FLHerne> Don't know if there's a hot tub 20:12:31 <TrueBrain> be careful you don't go back in time 20:12:33 <andythenorth_> there might be 'tub' 20:12:35 <FLHerne> But there's a good miniature railway 20:12:45 <peter1138> I vMotioned a terabyte of data this weekend, over fibre internet into the datacentre... I wonder how much that is going to cost... 20:12:56 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: yeah, SetDParamStr is annoying. Sometimes it's safe, other times it's not ;( 20:13:20 <peter1138> Hmm, actually 95th-%ile-wise it doesn't make much of a dent. 20:14:01 <TrueBrain> the lovely thing about measuring that way ;) 20:14:41 <peter1138> Hmm, constant 240Mbps for 4 hours. So not quite the 1Gbps it's supposed to be, but still. 20:14:54 <Rubidium> I'm still figuring out how to make SetDParamStr always do the right thing (tm), as for some strings you want the passed value and for some you might want to actually have that reference so the value/string can be updated over time 20:15:20 <TrueBrain> I just added yet-another-static for it :P 20:16:03 <peter1138> Nice, also managed to have a router flat at 50% and 60% on 2 cpu cores. 20:16:36 <peter1138> IPsec has a hit, I suppose. 20:22:23 <andythenorth_> oh industry_town_count is broken somehow? 20:22:24 <andythenorth_> hmm 20:22:56 <andythenorth_> industry_count works fine 20:24:53 <andythenorth_> ok industry_town_count seems to filter out current instance 20:26:30 <andythenorth_> ok lol 20:27:06 <andythenorth_> industry_town_count + 1 then 20:27:45 <andythenorth_> cheeki breeki 20:28:02 *** gelignite has quit IRC 20:29:36 <peter1138> Oh right, I need to update my GPU drivers. 20:33:50 <peter1138> DLSS and Raytracing in Doom apparently. 20:35:23 <TrueBrain> in C++, if you are iterating a std::map, can you remove entries from it? 20:36:16 <TrueBrain> (with the for( : ) syntax, that is) 20:36:30 <Samu> try, then you know 20:36:31 <TrueBrain> or do I need to do some old-skool begin()/end() stuff 20:36:32 <peter1138> Not with the for : syntax. 20:37:07 <Samu> oh, actually I remember stumbling upon that 20:37:23 <Samu> you need oldskool begin end 20:37:31 <TrueBrain> tnx peter1138 , I suspected that answer :P But googling that is surprisingly difficult :D 20:38:45 <Samu> in my case, i needed to increment the iterator after remove 20:44:09 <TrueBrain> for some reason I was like: 1 pending turn connection is enough for everyone 20:44:10 <TrueBrain> it isn't :P 20:44:20 <TrueBrain> stupid lobby system we have 20:48:25 <Samu> there https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/script/script_config.cpp#L137-L150 20:48:40 <Samu> had to use begin(), end() 20:49:07 <TrueBrain> lol, and the next "fun" bug ... I close all the connection, yet I receive a packet ... oh-oh :D Which socket is not really closed ... :P 20:49:31 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 20:49:55 <glx> and you wonder why gc leaks ? 20:50:04 <TrueBrain> this is client-side :) 20:55:19 *** Samu has quit IRC 20:56:21 *** nielsm has quit IRC 20:57:35 <TrueBrain> ha, lol .. yeah, okay .. it wasn't a closed connection 20:57:41 <TrueBrain> I just created a connection on a closed token 20:57:46 <TrueBrain> that is just the lack of code :D 21:00:28 <TrueBrain> (I was making the GC act really slow, to sniff out dangling stuff in the client .. I found several :D) 21:06:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9447: Feature: allow the use of TURN to connect client and server together https://git.io/JWDeR 21:07:24 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9447: Feature: allow the use of TURN to connect client and server together https://git.io/JW7Sw 21:08:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/py-protocol] TrueBrain opened pull request #13: Feature: support Game Coordinator protocol 5 https://git.io/JW7SF 21:11:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/py-protocol] TrueBrain updated pull request #13: Feature: support Game Coordinator protocol 5 https://git.io/JW7SF 21:11:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/game-coordinator] TrueBrain opened pull request #26: Feature: support for Game Coordinator protocol 5 https://git.io/JW79U 21:11:27 <TrueBrain> okay ... that is the basics for it .. 21:11:30 <TrueBrain> needs a bit of cleaning up 21:13:03 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/game-coordinator] TrueBrain updated pull request #26: Feature: support for Game Coordinator protocol 5 https://git.io/JW79U 21:15:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/game-coordinator] TrueBrain updated pull request #26: Feature: support for Game Coordinator protocol 5 https://git.io/JW79U 21:49:43 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 21:54:09 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:06:50 *** Gustavo6046_ has joined #openttd 22:10:08 *** Gustavo6- has joined #openttd 22:10:52 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 22:10:52 *** Gustavo6- is now known as Gustavo6046 22:14:55 *** Gustavo6046_ has quit IRC 22:23:59 *** Xaroth8 has joined #openttd 22:24:29 *** supermop_Home has joined #openttd 22:24:36 <supermop_Home> hello 22:24:57 *** jez has joined #openttd 22:24:59 <jez> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/9421cb1e2cf05da208872bc16a0ac6cd19100a73/src/industry_cmd.cpp#L2795 22:25:41 <jez> ^ why does this change from a 1/2 to a 1/180 chance of an industry closing when there's no production in a smooth economy? i've been debugging my game with a lumber mill whose trees I remove completely, and there's almost no chance it will shut down even though it has zero production. 22:26:26 *** Xaroth has quit IRC 22:26:49 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:29:35 <FLHerne> jez: Smooth economy makes changes much more frequently 22:30:01 <FLHerne> So my first guess would be that it's supposed to result in similar probability per month 22:30:13 <jez> FLHerne: doesn't appear to with regard to considering closing of lumber mills. i'm debugging it and it's not really hitting it very often 22:30:21 <FLHerne> (my second guess would be that it's a nonsensical mistake of some kind :p) 22:31:56 <FLHerne> Shutdowns of secondary industries with 0 production are always quite low 22:32:18 <FLHerne> Have you tried with non-smooth for comparison? 22:33:13 <jez> nope... but i did change the 180 to a 2 (same difference) and it closes relatively quickly 22:33:15 *** Gustavo6046_ has joined #openttd 22:33:17 <jez> few months max 22:33:20 <FLHerne> Usually only a very small number of secondary industries are ever served by players 22:33:30 <FLHerne> So most of them will have 0 production 22:33:33 <jez> right but the lumber mill is a special case 22:33:40 <jez> you don't serve it, it eats trees 22:33:49 <jez> no trees - in TTD - resulted in it closing down 22:33:59 <FLHerne> If they are, then that line is irrelevant :p 22:34:14 <FLHerne> INDUSTRYLIFE_PROCESSING is factories and similar 22:34:19 <jez> except that i dont see any special case code for the lumber mill which is why it isnt closing 22:35:13 <FLHerne> Low probability of closing with 0 production makes sense for factories, otherwise you'd have constant pointless turnover 22:35:14 <jez> lumber mill is considered in that category too 22:35:27 <jez> yeah 22:35:28 <FLHerne> So maybe the problem is a lack of special-casing for lumber mills 22:35:45 <jez> which is surprising because it's pretty darn obvious that they are a special case 22:36:01 <jez> they accept nothing 22:36:45 <FLHerne> It's possible that someone deliberately chose to un-special-case them 22:37:13 <FLHerne> From a gameplay perspective, it would be quite annoying if a mill I had trains etc. running from closed down permanently from lack of trees 22:37:28 <jez> not really 22:37:28 <FLHerne> Stopping production seems enough really to me 22:37:35 <jez> the point is that you're meant to keep the trees going 22:37:45 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 22:37:45 *** Gustavo6046_ is now known as Gustavo6046 22:37:49 <jez> also, it's not really hard to keep the trees going. you pretty much have to go to effort to get rid of trees 22:37:54 <FLHerne> (are you sure TTD does actually close them and not stop production?) 22:38:24 <jez> i admit it's been a while since i played it, but im sure i remember one closing down due to lack of trees, and also the l10n message says "lumber mill closes down due to lack of trees" 22:38:28 <FLHerne> OTTD has settings where it plants fewer/no trees automatically 22:38:41 <jez> well, you get paid a lot more for wood 22:38:50 <FLHerne> I think there was a fix for the interaction between that and lumber mills recently, but I can't remember what 22:38:53 <jez> that's the reward for having the extra effort of planting trees, i think 22:39:14 <jez> also if it shuts down, you can just fund a new one anyway 22:40:45 <FLHerne> Well, even with the current behaviour that can happen, it's just improbable unless you ignore it for too long 22:41:31 <FLHerne> I don't play in tropic (or with the default industries at all) very often, so the above is pretty much all I can say about that :p 22:41:37 <jez> it seems like a bug to me. and i want to be able to shut one of the damn ones down without cheating :-) i should be able to do it by bulldozing trees 22:42:08 <FLHerne> If you think they need special-casing, might be worth opening a PR or discussion with some different proposed mechanic 22:42:43 <FLHerne> I can't remember, do lumber mills also eat trees when not being served? 22:42:50 <jez> yes 22:43:22 <FLHerne> You'd still get some annoying turnover then, especially if the placement puts them on tiny islands or something 22:43:41 <FLHerne> maybe that's acceptable, I don't know 22:43:48 <jez> the whole point of the lumber mill mechanic is that you have to fund them, you have to put them in the right place, it's the player's responsibility 22:44:05 <jez> saying that mechanic is "annoying" is like saying the game is "annoying" because you cant just leave it and do nothing 22:48:14 <FLHerne> Oh, bleh, they're always funding-only 22:48:22 <FLHerne> shows how much I don't play tropic 22:48:29 <FLHerne> Makes sense to me then 22:48:37 <jez> what does 22:48:53 <FLHerne> Making them die more easily 22:49:00 <jez> yeah 22:49:45 <FLHerne> If they were autoplaced, you'd have an annoying cycle of being placed, not having enough trees, dying, and being replaced until the RNG happened to find stable places for the expected number 22:49:53 <FLHerne> or indefinitely on some maps 22:50:04 <FLHerne> but if the expected number is 0 that's fine 22:51:27 *** tokai has joined #openttd 22:51:27 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 22:58:20 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 23:00:30 *** Gustavo6046_ has joined #openttd 23:05:17 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 23:05:17 *** Gustavo6046_ is now known as Gustavo6046 23:33:56 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 23:38:15 *** Gustavo6046_ has joined #openttd 23:42:35 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 23:42:35 *** Gustavo6046_ is now known as Gustavo6046