Log for #openttd on 18th July 2021:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:07:27  *** Tirili has quit IRC
00:52:25  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
00:52:40  *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
02:24:14  *** Wuzzy has quit IRC
02:32:22  *** Zathras has joined #openttd
02:35:45  *** D-HUND has quit IRC
03:19:26  *** glx has quit IRC
03:57:31  *** Flygon has joined #openttd
05:42:22  *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
06:07:26  *** nielsm has joined #openttd
06:12:50  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9447: Feature: allow the use of TURN to connect client and server together
06:16:03  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
06:22:28  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] andythenorth commented on pull request #227: Fix f2cab72: Called procedures may receive wrong values in parameters
06:34:55  *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd
07:20:56  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9447: Feature: allow the use of TURN to connect client and server together
07:24:32  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
07:24:45  *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
07:39:22  <TrueBrain> that sneaky moment Windows appears to have changed my mouse speed
07:39:32  <TrueBrain> that is very evil, as I fail to click on stuff :D
07:41:03  <TrueBrain> well, I incorrectly blame Windows ... I have a new mouse, and I forgot the buttons to change sensitivity aren't unbound yet
07:41:04  <TrueBrain> lol
07:53:34  <andythenorth> I blame Apple every time I accidentally hit the emojibar with a finger
07:53:56  <andythenorth> which has various surprising effects, like locking the mac, turning the screen brightness to 0, or stopping/starting music
08:33:17  *** Speedy` has joined #openttd
08:39:00  <andythenorth> FIRS is a giant adventure in 'run-time facts' vs. 'compile-time facts' :P
08:39:31  <andythenorth> especially because compile time is significant
08:39:40  <andythenorth> whereas run time isn't currently measured :P
08:40:09  <andythenorth> so my inclination is to push logic into run-time not compile time if I can
08:47:14  *** Progman has joined #openttd
08:54:00  <andythenorth> unrelated: child #1 asked why the fridge can't just close the door automatically, instead of beeping after 60 seconds of open door
08:54:09  <andythenorth> which is a good example of why Cache Invalidation is Hard
08:55:11  <TrueBrain> I am not sure I want to ask why you linked those two things together :P
08:57:16  <andythenorth> sometimes it's easier to just have a person decide when to shut the fridge
08:58:23  <TrueBrain> it should just have a proximity sensor
08:59:53  * andythenorth now designing a new fridge
09:00:37  <andythenorth> see also: why doesn't code write itself yet?
09:00:40  <andythenorth> and will it soon?
09:02:56  <TrueBrain> GitHub Copilot seems to do :P
09:21:02  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9447: Feature: allow the use of TURN to connect client and server together
09:21:05  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9447: Feature: allow the use of TURN to connect client and server together
09:23:20  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 opened pull request #9448: Small clean ups due to the introduction of GC
09:24:50  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #9448: Small clean ups due to the introduction of GC
09:27:29  <andythenorth> hmm
09:27:48  * andythenorth wants industries to calculate town 'happiness' and store it in a town register
09:28:02  <andythenorth> value depends on internal factors of industry
09:28:05  <andythenorth> updated monthly
09:28:25  <andythenorth> town might have n industries that want to write to 1 register
09:28:39  <andythenorth> this is all possible
09:28:50  <andythenorth> but there's no reliable way to zero the register every month :P
09:28:51  <andythenorth> oof
09:28:54  <andythenorth> FML
09:32:11  <andythenorth> there are various stupid tricks I could do counting industries
09:32:24  <andythenorth> but industries can open or close during the month, which messes that up :)
09:32:29  * andythenorth all the lolz
09:32:33  * andythenorth shopping
09:32:36  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
09:42:29  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 merged pull request #9448: Small clean ups due to the introduction of GC
10:14:38  <peter1138> Hmm, since switching to display port monitors, my desktop configuration seems to reconfigure whenever I turn a screen off. That never happened with DVI/HDMI.
10:17:33  <TrueBrain> annoying isn't it?
10:19:00  *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
10:19:00  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
10:26:02  *** tokai has quit IRC
11:00:56  *** Samu has joined #openttd
11:01:08  <Samu> gamescript unknown?
11:24:53  <nielsm> for some reason all or almost all DP monitors switch off the presence signal when you turn them off on the monitor's power button, or switch the monitor to a different input source
11:26:25  <Rubidium> Samu: yes, your server is too old so it does not advertise that. If you want it to show the "correct" value, you'll have to upgrade to master as of at most a few days ago
11:28:05  *** glx has joined #openttd
11:28:36  *** glx is now known as Guest1256
11:29:10  *** Guest1256 is now known as glx
11:46:02  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
11:52:46  <andythenorth> ok so 256 tick and monthly callbacks from town to industry grf?
11:52:53  <andythenorth> but there's no action 0 for towns
11:52:59  <andythenorth> so how would that work?
11:55:33  <Samu> too old? its 1.11.2
11:55:43  <Samu> it's a brand new fresh feature
11:55:46  <Samu> i see
12:04:12  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/py-protocol] TrueBrain opened pull request #12: Feature: support Game Coordinator protocol 4
12:05:59  <andythenorth> meh
12:06:08  * andythenorth is back at 'what are the game loops' :P
12:06:17  <andythenorth> last time we talked about that, it went so ...great
12:06:27  <andythenorth> trying to talk to programmers about game design :P
12:07:11  <andythenorth>
12:07:32  *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest1259
12:07:34  *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd
12:08:24  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/py-protocol] TrueBrain updated pull request #12: Feature: support Game Coordinator protocol 4
12:08:37  <andythenorth> so currently we have....a GS with a global view of the map
12:08:42  <andythenorth> but it can't handle events
12:08:55  <andythenorth> and we have grf, which can handle specific events defined in the API
12:09:00  <andythenorth> but has no global view
12:09:18  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/game-coordinator] TrueBrain opened pull request #25: Feature: reduce bandwidth needed to serve clients the serverlist
12:09:25  <andythenorth> it's so lolz, the whole thing is like the 3rd flash game I ever wrote
12:09:53  <andythenorth> flash could have event handling, it could have independent loops on objects, and it could have a master controller loop
12:10:09  <andythenorth> mixing all of them with no clear design was...possible
12:10:20  <andythenorth> but life was better with almost ANY other approach
12:12:28  *** Guest1259 has quit IRC
12:17:18  <glx> GS can handle events
12:17:52  <glx>
12:18:09  <andythenorth> oh
12:18:18  <andythenorth> so why is it said here sometimes that GS can't have callbacks?
12:18:24  * andythenorth puzzled by it all :)
12:18:43  <andythenorth> if GS can handle industry close, why not industry 256 produce loop?
12:18:48  <andythenorth> and then delete grf?
12:19:08  <TrueBrain> events != callbacks :)
12:19:09  <andythenorth> why do we even keep grf?
12:19:13  <glx> Callbacks and events are different
12:19:21  <TrueBrain> with callbacks we general mean that something can be done inline
12:19:26  <TrueBrain> events are triggered to be picked up when-ever
12:19:42  * andythenorth googling
12:19:43  <TrueBrain> sync vs async etc
12:19:47  <andythenorth> ok
12:19:53  <TrueBrain> callbacks are sync, events are async, in this context
12:19:56  * andythenorth avoids clicking any links with 'promises' in the title
12:20:07  <andythenorth> ok so one has to return
12:20:20  <andythenorth> the other is a notfiication
12:20:29  <glx> Events are fire and forget
12:20:48  <TrueBrain> if I ring your door, you are free to go to the door or not, it is just an event
12:20:56  <andythenorth> yup
12:21:03  <TrueBrain> if I slap you in your face, the hurt is instant and you react to it .. your reaction is a callback
12:21:04  <TrueBrain> :P
12:21:17  <TrueBrain> (worst comparison EVAH)
12:21:54  <andythenorth> it creates a vivid picture
12:22:22  <andythenorth> ok so GS has a global view of the map, and events.  But doesn't have callbacks
12:22:40  <andythenorth> so we have objects that require a view on global map state, but can't access it
12:22:57  <andythenorth> and we have a controller for global map state, but it can't influence the objects
12:23:13  * andythenorth will just write some more grf code with nasty edge cases
12:25:33  <andythenorth> meanwhile, can anyone review this? :)
12:26:03  <andythenorth> I could yolo approve it, on the basis that the test case passes
12:27:31  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 opened pull request #9449: Fix/Feature: (re)introduce NewGRF names for (unknown) NewGRFs
12:27:50  *** glx is now known as Guest1260
12:27:50  *** glx_ has joined #openttd
12:27:50  *** glx_ is now known as glx
12:27:50  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx
12:28:15  *** Guest1260 has quit IRC
12:31:02  <andythenorth> ok so for co-ordinating industries writing to one register
12:31:16  <andythenorth> maybe I can count how many industries in the town will write to the register
12:31:33  <andythenorth> and then increment another register each time an industry writes
12:31:45  <andythenorth> then reset the counter to 0 on the last industry
12:32:48  <andythenorth> this has the following edge cases
12:32:57  <andythenorth> * I mess up somehow
12:33:27  <andythenorth> * new industry opens in the town, changing the count
12:33:34  <andythenorth> * industry closes in the town, changing the count
12:34:00  <glx> you're lucky, industries are handled sequentially :)
12:34:05  <andythenorth> * player uses date cheat, which _might_ cause some industries to not write, causing out of sync values
12:35:00  <glx> forget cheats, if player use them bad things are expected
12:35:04  <andythenorth> glx sequentially when? :)  In the 256 tick and monthly cbs?
12:38:19  * andythenorth wonders how many game ticks it takes to run all the industry cbs
12:41:01  <andythenorth> designing industry grf stuff is a bit like playing chess
12:41:05  * andythenorth not great at chess
12:46:52  <Samu> i found some NULL's
12:47:21  <Samu> os_abstraction.cpp line 84 and 85
12:48:07  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9449: Fix/Feature: (re)introduce NewGRF names for (unknown) NewGRFs
12:48:35  <TrueBrain> OMG! NO! NO! YOU DID?! Guess we should now burn the game ... unacceptable ... :P
12:49:08  *** Zathras is now known as debdog
12:51:19  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/py-protocol] TrueBrain updated pull request #12: Feature: support Game Coordinator protocol 4
12:51:28  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/game-coordinator] TrueBrain updated pull request #25: Feature: reduce bandwidth needed to serve clients the serverlist
12:52:51  <Samu> also found NULL is video drivers, i wonder if some NULLs are exceptions
12:52:58  <Samu> win32_v.cpp
12:52:59  <andythenorth> if there was a town cb that could just handle resetting the register
12:53:09  <andythenorth> delegating one of the industries to do it is blah blah
12:53:30  <andythenorth> lots of compile-time templating to get all the counts of all the industries
12:53:39  <andythenorth> and lots of run-time counting of industries
12:54:16  <andythenorth> alternatively, if there was way to provide exactly 1 of a specific industry type in every time
12:54:20  <andythenorth> that could act as the controller
12:54:25  <andythenorth> time / town /s
12:54:26  <Samu> and lots of NULL's in squirrel
12:54:38  * andythenorth watches teddy bears not communicating :P
12:58:24  <glx> andythenorth: monthly CB is called for all industries on first tick of the month
12:58:54  <glx> ordered by industry ID
12:59:02  <glx> *sorted
13:00:00  <andythenorth> so game will never advance to next tick until all industries have returned?
13:00:56  <glx> yup
13:01:09  * andythenorth doesn't want player to see weird town behaviour because game advanced whilst register values are being recalculated by industries
13:01:52  <andythenorth> ok so that's blocking, and no industries can open/close?
13:01:56  * andythenorth could just read src
13:02:04  <andythenorth> it's probably industry_cmd.cpp right?
13:02:13  <andythenorth> my favourite file in src
13:03:07  <andythenorth> hmm maybe industry is closed within ChangeIndustryProduction
13:03:18  <glx>
13:03:56  <andythenorth> I am looking at L2933-4
13:04:09  <andythenorth> that means maintaining a counter needs a bit more thought
13:04:35  <andythenorth> it's ok, unless the last industry to be incremented closes
13:04:40  <andythenorth> then the counter won't be reset
13:04:41  <glx> ah yes if it was decided to close, it's one during the llop
13:04:46  <Samu> are these NULL meant to be nullptr?
13:04:55  <glx> *loop
13:05:13  <andythenorth> I could store the last value for number of industries, and compare to current var result
13:05:21  <glx> Samu: no, it's windows API
13:05:34  <andythenorth> then I know if number of industries changed
13:05:35  <Samu> interesting
13:05:44  <andythenorth> maybe just hit the panic button if the 2 values don't match
13:06:22  <andythenorth> or I could define that these industries never close
13:06:37  <andythenorth> they don't close in current FIRS
13:06:44  <andythenorth> player magic bulldozer is a different case
13:07:16  <glx> funny to use windows API there
13:07:20  <andythenorth> there was a town grf spec once :P
13:07:24  * andythenorth wonders what happened to it
13:08:38  <andythenorth> frosch special :)
13:11:55  <glx> oh I see it's to translate windows error code to string
13:12:15  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/py-protocol] TrueBrain updated pull request #12: Feature: support Game Coordinator protocol 4
13:12:34  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/py-protocol] TrueBrain updated pull request #12: Feature: support Game Coordinator protocol 4
13:13:09  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/game-coordinator] TrueBrain updated pull request #25: Feature: reduce bandwidth needed to serve clients the serverlist
13:26:40  <andythenorth> so every town gets a power station?
13:26:49  <andythenorth> for happiness? :)
13:27:04  <andythenorth> no electricity grid, just municipal generators :(
13:29:23  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
13:31:03  <andythenorth> what's the unit for town happiness? :P
13:31:06  <andythenorth> 'smiles'?
13:32:38  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/game-coordinator] TrueBrain updated pull request #25: Feature: reduce bandwidth needed to serve clients the serverlist
13:33:48  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/master-server] TrueBrain opened pull request #48: Change: store NewGRFs in redis backend in format the Game Coordinator can read
13:36:08  <andythenorth> so is it raining in mainland Europe?
13:37:04  <glx> not here, but central has quite too much
13:38:32  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/py-protocol] TrueBrain updated pull request #12: Feature: support Game Coordinator protocol 4
13:40:29  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/py-protocol] TrueBrain updated pull request #12: Feature: support Game Coordinator protocol 4
13:40:46  <TrueBrain> can I stop making stupid mistakes? :(
13:40:58  <andythenorth> are you asking for permission?
13:41:06  <andythenorth> or is it an empirical question?
13:41:08  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: well, we have one village idiot in the Netherlands that says it is a hoax
13:41:19  <TrueBrain> but I am pretty sure a lot of people strongly disagree
13:41:25  <andythenorth> what isn't a hoax these days?
13:41:26  <TrueBrain> given their house is ... few feet under water
13:41:53  <TrueBrain> well, in a country as mine, you really don't want to say on national television that you think it is a hoax that parts of the country are now under water that shouldn't be ...
13:41:57  <andythenorth> welll
13:42:03  <TrueBrain> that is a really really bad idea :P
13:42:07  <andythenorth> that's what they want you to think?
13:42:12  <andythenorth> oh conspiracies
13:42:25  <andythenorth> it's like shooting fish in a barrel
13:42:32  <TrueBrain> I mean ..stuff like vaccines, people cannot touch, so they believe what-ever
13:42:44  <andythenorth> there is no situation for which it isn't trivial to devise a conspiracy
13:42:45  <TrueBrain> but the fact that a cow traveled for 100km in the stream of water to be fished out, alive
13:42:48  <TrueBrain> that is ... euh .. yeah .... :P
13:42:56  <andythenorth> 'fake cow'
13:43:22  <andythenorth> it's much more psychologically reassuring to see through what 'they' want you to believe
13:43:22  <TrueBrain> people in a country like mine don't tend to like being played like a fool for something you can touch and see for yourself :)
13:43:41  <TrueBrain> so I got some popcorn and I am just watching this "hoax" theory unfold
13:44:20  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/py-protocol] TrueBrain merged pull request #12: Feature: support Game Coordinator protocol 4
13:44:43  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/py-protocol] TrueBrain created new tag: 0.5.0
13:44:43  <andythenorth> I knew the internet was over a few years ago
13:44:51  <andythenorth> I found a long thread on a dictionary forum
13:44:55  <andythenorth> about roofs vs rooves
13:45:13  <andythenorth> which somebody turned into a libtard hate thread
13:45:32  <andythenorth> which would have been awesome trolling, but was almost 99% certainly real belief
13:45:46  <andythenorth> apparently words really musn't ever change
13:45:49  <andythenorth> or be used differently
13:45:57  <andythenorth> it's basically communism and the NWO and genocide if they do
13:46:21  * andythenorth could discuss this at length, but eh
13:46:58  <andythenorth> my favourite thing about the conspiracy theorists is that they label any dissenters as 'useful idiots'
13:47:13  <andythenorth> which is a very amusing failure to reflect
13:47:33  <andythenorth> as most of them are simply spreading rumours planted by shysters for money, to shill for the right, or actual fascists
13:47:38  <andythenorth> or by putin
13:47:58  <andythenorth> 'all conspiracy theories are now just putin' is like conspiracy meta-meta
13:48:34  <andythenorth> hmm my neighbour has decided to practice basketball, this is ruining my sunshine buzz
13:48:43  <andythenorth> bounce-bounce-bounce-crash (shot)
13:49:03  *** SuperTNT has joined #openttd
13:49:06  <TrueBrain> for some reason I think you are the one bouncing around :P
13:49:14  <TrueBrain> can you check your frame of reference? :D
13:49:34  <andythenorth> do you know your frame of reference is stable?
13:49:39  <andythenorth> it might be moving, expanding or contracting
13:49:45  <SuperTNT> hi
13:49:45  *** Progman has quit IRC
13:49:46  <TrueBrain> irrelevant
13:49:55  <TrueBrain> as long as we agree about how mine differs from yours :P
13:49:59  <andythenorth> that's the conclusion from philosophy of science also yes
13:50:07  <andythenorth> we have to have one, or we can't get anything done
13:50:40  <TrueBrain> I love those people that say: the earth cannot be going in circles around the sun, as I would feel the 400 m/s (or what-ever speed we go through space)
13:50:52  <TrueBrain> and hi SuperTNT , don't mind us not talking about OpenTTD :P
13:51:00  <andythenorth> and what about the air drag? :P
13:51:07  <andythenorth> the atmosphere would be torn off, right?
13:51:40  <Timberwolf> andythenorth: our attached next door has spent most of last week "knocking in" a cricket bat.
13:51:43  <TrueBrain> @calc 110000 / 3.6
13:51:43  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 30555.555555555555
13:51:49  <TrueBrain> I was slightly off, it seems :)
13:52:03  *** SuperTNT has left #openttd
13:52:18  <Timberwolf> Every so often you're working and just hear this distant "whack! whack! whack!"
13:52:22  <andythenorth> @Timberwolf my 4 adjoining neighbours have 12 kids between them, plus 2 of mine
13:52:39  <andythenorth> oh and there's one other house, which has people with visible and audible mental health issues
13:53:16  <andythenorth> it's generally not a peaceful milieu
13:53:27  <Timberwolf> Heh.
13:53:46  <andythenorth> also my neighbour is full Italian, and deploys Italian parenting volumes
13:53:56  <andythenorth> which at least makes it a bit like being on holiday
13:53:56  <Timberwolf> We have big dogs and I have a very questionable record collection, that's our contribution.
13:54:00  <TrueBrain> heuh talksuh likeuh thisuh? :D
13:54:15  <andythenorth> TrueBrain didn't we agree not to do accents? :P
13:54:26  <andythenorth> I think you specifically told me not to do it :P
13:54:30  <TrueBrain> I absolutely adore Italian accents :)
13:54:36  <Timberwolf> Heh. Xlassic Essex/East London border in next door's case, which is similar on the volume scale.
13:54:42  <Timberwolf> *classic
13:54:51  <andythenorth> I do enjoy having Italian neighbours, it's fun
13:54:53  <TrueBrain> it makes the language feel so much more ... something :)
13:55:09  <andythenorth> also is Timberwolf Industries done yet?
13:55:29  <Timberwolf> I need to stop playing RCT and get back to voxelling.
13:55:38  <TrueBrain> you get a voxel, and you get a voxel
13:55:48  <andythenorth> voxel industry
13:56:40  * andythenorth should stopping watching Life of Boris on Youtube
13:58:41  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/game-coordinator] TrueBrain merged pull request #25: Feature: reduce bandwidth needed to serve clients the serverlist
13:58:45  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/master-server] TrueBrain merged pull request #48: Change: store NewGRFs in redis backend in format the Game Coordinator can read
14:02:13  <Timberwolf> Actually no, what I really need to stop doing is seeing advice on the Discord and going, "is that really the case? I should test this."
14:10:23  <andythenorth> but 2-way EOL is better right?
14:10:27  <andythenorth> and 4 tile signal spacing
14:10:31  <andythenorth> and NPF > YAPF
14:10:35  <andythenorth> these ARE KNOWN
14:10:42  * andythenorth needs electricity for laptop
14:10:53  <andythenorth> gardens don't have many power sockets, generally :(
14:13:29  <glx> solar laptop should exist
14:20:01  <andythenorth> 100W of solar needed
14:20:37  <andythenorth> hmm V=IR or something
14:20:39  <FLHerne> In this weather, that's only half a square metre or so
14:20:40  <andythenorth> 100W at 12v
14:20:41  <andythenorth>
14:20:50  <andythenorth> what does USB-C run at for volts?
14:20:52  <FLHerne> maybe less with bifacials
14:21:06  <andythenorth> also it's not actually 100w
14:21:20  <andythenorth> my 100W charger causes the mac to go into thermal shutdown
14:21:26  <andythenorth> the Apple ones are about 85W
14:21:50  <FLHerne> Up to 20V, depends a lot on the widget
14:22:04  <andythenorth>
14:22:07  <FLHerne> I think there's a new spec recently that allows even higher voltage/power
14:23:04  <FLHerne> but you shouldn't really need 100W for a laptop
14:23:13  <FLHerne> unless it's some mad gaming thing
14:23:24  <glx> it's a mac :)
14:23:39  <glx> so similar to mad gaming thing
14:23:40  <andythenorth> it will keep alive on 30W
14:23:48  <FLHerne> Normal laptops are about 5-10W idle and 60W max under load
14:23:56  <andythenorth> it's a horrible balance between 'charging' and 'thermal shutdown'
14:24:03  <andythenorth> it's a crapmac
14:24:24  <andythenorth> 105W of parts in a chassis with 85W of cooling
14:24:40  <glx> smart design :)
14:24:46  <andythenorth> insanely great
14:25:05  <andythenorth> the joke is that I should have bought the i7
14:25:12  <andythenorth> and the lower spec GPU
14:25:33  <glx> can't you just disable GPU and use i7 one ?
14:26:12  <andythenorth> no, they removed the user control over the GPU
14:26:18  <andythenorth> and the CPU is i9, which cooks
14:26:38  *** jottyfan has joined #openttd
14:26:54  <glx> ah yes i9 in a laptop, what a silly idea
14:27:02  <andythenorth> it can do about 2 mins of maximum single core performance, then it throttles to about 10% of CPU
14:27:11  <andythenorth> it's constantly hot to the touch
14:27:43  <andythenorth> it runs about 50 degrees idle, and gets up to 80 degrees under load.  At about 85 degrees it just turns off
14:28:08  <andythenorth> I am waiting for the ARM thing :(
14:30:49  <FLHerne> Are there no magic OS tuning flags?
14:31:16  <FLHerne> I had a Thinkpad that did something like that, but I could set it to not use the highest-power CState
14:34:22  <andythenorth> there was this, but not working on the model I have
14:36:46  <andythenorth> hmm the Radeon Pro 5500M is an 85W part :o
14:37:08  <andythenorth> 85W TDP, goes up to 105W
14:37:11  <andythenorth> ooof
14:51:07  *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd
15:13:38  *** iSoSyS has quit IRC
15:18:58  <Samu> what is the Base category of ai_settings.ini?
15:19:06  <Samu> i mean script_settings.ini
15:22:02  <Samu> there used to be a 'base'
15:27:04  <Samu> well, it's still a GameSetting
15:27:15  <Samu> but i wonder how it got that
15:41:41  <glx> nothing changed with setting definition, it's just a big file split into smaller ones, but the content is exactly the same
15:44:25  *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
15:56:51  <Samu> each setting has it's 'base' gone
16:05:27  <Samu> ah, found it
16:05:28  <Samu>
16:12:32  *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd
16:17:25  *** Gustavo6046_ has joined #openttd
16:18:36  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
16:22:15  *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC
16:22:15  *** Gustavo6046_ is now known as Gustavo6046
16:26:45  *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
16:31:19  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 updated pull request #9449: Fix/Feature: (re)introduce NewGRF names for (unknown) NewGRFs
16:31:22  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9449: Fix/Feature: (re)introduce NewGRF names for (unknown) NewGRFs
16:45:44  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9449: Fix/Feature: (re)introduce NewGRF names for (unknown) NewGRFs
16:46:55  *** gelignite has joined #openttd
16:50:39  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
16:52:41  *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
16:55:04  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/game-coordinator] TrueBrain created new tag: 0.4.0
16:55:08  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/master-server] TrueBrain created new tag: 1.2.5
16:55:15  <TrueBrain> TO PRODUCTION WITH YOU! :)
16:55:26  <TrueBrain> lets see how it crashes and burns :)
16:55:42  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 updated pull request #9449: Fix/Feature: (re)introduce NewGRF names for (unknown) NewGRFs
16:56:05  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #9449: Fix/Feature: (re)introduce NewGRF names for (unknown) NewGRFs
16:58:35  <TrueBrain> this also means it would finally be useful to show what NewGRFs a server is running exactly on the web :P
16:58:52  <TrueBrain> it now just says the amount of NewGRFs, and before that it showed the GRFIDs .. like that means anything to anyone :D
16:59:44  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
17:01:42  *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
17:02:10  <TrueBrain> owh, right, for the next 15 minutes the API will be in a bit of trouble ..
17:02:15  <TrueBrain> should correct itself within 15 minutes :)
17:07:46  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/master-server] TrueBrain opened pull request #49: Fix d778f557: "name" field should always be set, even if it is not known
17:08:18  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/master-server] TrueBrain updated pull request #49: Fix d778f557: NewGRF entries were not following new specs
17:08:26  <TrueBrain> no clue why that didn't show up during testing, really odd
17:08:56  <Rubidium> no staging master server?
17:09:07  <TrueBrain> yeah, there is
17:09:12  <TrueBrain> but that requires a source modification
17:09:16  <TrueBrain> so I test that stuff locally :D
17:09:30  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/master-server] TrueBrain merged pull request #49: Fix d778f557: NewGRF entries were not following new specs
17:09:50  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/master-server] TrueBrain created new tag: 1.2.6
17:09:58  <TrueBrain> right ... 15 more minutes before everything works again :P
17:10:36  <andythenorth_> EVERYTHING
17:11:05  <TrueBrain> ah, no, I only tested it with the same NewGRF ID via a GC-connected server
17:11:06  <TrueBrain> that explains
17:11:21  <TrueBrain> owh well .. production is the best test-ground out there :)
17:14:23  <TrueBrain> good thing with 1.12 is, that it no longer will take 15 minutes for everything to settle in again .. but rather a few seconds :D
17:17:12  <andythenorth_> :)
17:19:31  <TrueBrain> right, seems master-server recovered nicely .. now to wait for game-coordinator .. ALMOST :P
17:20:32  <TrueBrain> hmm .. how sure am I that it recovers .. now that is a good question too :P
17:22:34  <TrueBrain> there we go
17:22:36  <TrueBrain> magic!
17:23:00  <TrueBrain> and it correctly mentions "Unknown" for all these old servers
17:23:01  <TrueBrain> nice
17:23:55  <TrueBrain> server-listing is so fast now :D
17:26:17  <TrueBrain> w00p, and if a new servers announce a NewGRF by name, it updates the entry as expected
17:26:31  <TrueBrain> so looking at old servers with a new client shows the NewGRF by name correctly after that :)
17:26:50  <TrueBrain> I like this approach Rubidium :) Feels solid :D
17:30:38  <TrueBrain> one "mistake" I guess could be considered that the updating of a name doesn't give it a new index
17:30:45  <TrueBrain> so clients already having the listing don't see it
17:30:55  <TrueBrain> but ... yeah, not sure that matters :P
17:31:37  <TrueBrain> @calc 2**32 / 10000 / 24 / 365
17:31:37  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 49.02930703196347
17:31:51  <TrueBrain> in 50 years we have to reset the database "worst case" .. the cursor might wrap by that time :P
17:32:43  <TrueBrain> well, no, that is a very silly worst-case
17:32:51  <TrueBrain> @calc 2**32 / 500 / 365
17:32:51  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 23534.067375342467
17:32:55  <TrueBrain> yeah, we are fine :P
17:36:42  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 merged pull request #9449: Fix/Feature: (re)introduce NewGRF names for (unknown) NewGRFs
17:36:47  <TrueBrain> w00p
17:36:58  <Rubidium> just one turn to go ;)
17:37:12  *** Progman has joined #openttd
17:42:31  <TrueBrain> yup .. I have an idea how to do it .. just have to make it a reality now .. :P
18:11:11  *** Flygon has quit IRC
18:40:52  *** jottyfan has quit IRC
18:50:27  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
18:50:28  <DorpsGek>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
19:33:42  *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
19:47:50  * andythenorth_ more adventures in industry <-> town communication
20:03:19  * peter1138 more adventures in beer
20:04:25  <Samu> I got approved PRs!
20:06:20  <TrueBrain> peter1138: something to celebrate? :)
20:06:42  <peter1138> Only that the beer is chilled
20:07:05  <TrueBrain> you make an excellent point
20:07:09  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
20:08:43  <andythenorth_> beers
20:08:52  <andythenorth_> I am going to have cold beer in hot hot tub
20:09:03  <andythenorth_> if my beer was called 'Cold Beer'
20:09:12  <andythenorth_> I could have cold cold beer in hot hot tub
20:11:02  <TrueBrain> heap-use-after-free
20:11:03  <TrueBrain> awwhhhh
20:11:19  <andythenorth_>
20:11:21  <TrueBrain> SetDParamStr is so annoying
20:11:45  <FLHerne> andythenorth_: Remember there's a town called Beer
20:11:55  <andythenorth_> I have been there
20:12:03  <andythenorth_> I had sunday lunch there once
20:12:16  <FLHerne> Well, you can have your cold cold beer in Beer
20:12:24  <FLHerne> Don't know if there's a hot tub
20:12:31  <TrueBrain> be careful you don't go back in time
20:12:33  <andythenorth_> there might be 'tub'
20:12:35  <FLHerne> But there's a good miniature railway
20:12:45  <peter1138> I vMotioned a terabyte of data this weekend, over fibre internet into the datacentre... I wonder how much that is going to cost...
20:12:56  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: yeah, SetDParamStr is annoying. Sometimes it's safe, other times it's not ;(
20:13:20  <peter1138> Hmm, actually 95th-%ile-wise it doesn't make much of a dent.
20:14:01  <TrueBrain> the lovely thing about measuring that way ;)
20:14:41  <peter1138> Hmm, constant 240Mbps for 4 hours. So not quite the 1Gbps it's supposed to be, but still.
20:14:54  <Rubidium> I'm still figuring out how to make SetDParamStr always do the right thing (tm), as for some strings you want the passed value and for some you might want to actually have that reference so the value/string can be updated over time
20:15:20  <TrueBrain> I just added yet-another-static for it :P
20:16:03  <peter1138> Nice, also managed to have a router flat at 50% and 60% on 2 cpu cores.
20:16:36  <peter1138> IPsec has a hit, I suppose.
20:22:23  <andythenorth_> oh industry_town_count is broken somehow?
20:22:24  <andythenorth_> hmm
20:22:56  <andythenorth_> industry_count works fine
20:24:53  <andythenorth_> ok industry_town_count seems to filter out current instance
20:26:30  <andythenorth_> ok lol
20:27:06  <andythenorth_> industry_town_count + 1 then
20:27:45  <andythenorth_> cheeki breeki
20:28:02  *** gelignite has quit IRC
20:29:36  <peter1138> Oh right, I need to update my GPU drivers.
20:33:50  <peter1138> DLSS and Raytracing in Doom apparently.
20:35:23  <TrueBrain> in C++, if you are iterating a std::map, can you remove entries from it?
20:36:16  <TrueBrain> (with the for( : ) syntax, that is)
20:36:30  <Samu> try, then you know
20:36:31  <TrueBrain> or do I need to do some old-skool begin()/end() stuff
20:36:32  <peter1138> Not with the for : syntax.
20:37:07  <Samu> oh, actually I remember stumbling upon that
20:37:23  <Samu> you need oldskool begin end
20:37:31  <TrueBrain> tnx peter1138 , I suspected that answer :P But googling that is surprisingly difficult :D
20:38:45  <Samu> in my case, i needed to increment the iterator after remove
20:44:09  <TrueBrain> for some reason I was like: 1 pending turn connection is enough for everyone
20:44:10  <TrueBrain> it isn't :P
20:44:20  <TrueBrain> stupid lobby system we have
20:48:25  <Samu> there
20:48:40  <Samu> had to use begin(), end()
20:49:07  <TrueBrain> lol, and the next "fun" bug ... I close all the connection, yet I receive a packet ... oh-oh :D Which socket is not really closed ... :P
20:49:31  *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC
20:49:55  <glx> and you wonder why gc leaks ?
20:50:04  <TrueBrain> this is client-side :)
20:55:19  *** Samu has quit IRC
20:56:21  *** nielsm has quit IRC
20:57:35  <TrueBrain> ha, lol .. yeah, okay .. it wasn't a closed connection
20:57:41  <TrueBrain> I just created a connection on a closed token
20:57:46  <TrueBrain> that is just the lack of code :D
21:00:28  <TrueBrain> (I was making the GC act really slow, to sniff out dangling stuff in the client .. I found several :D)
21:06:27  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9447: Feature: allow the use of TURN to connect client and server together
21:07:24  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9447: Feature: allow the use of TURN to connect client and server together
21:08:58  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/py-protocol] TrueBrain opened pull request #13: Feature: support Game Coordinator protocol 5
21:11:08  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/py-protocol] TrueBrain updated pull request #13: Feature: support Game Coordinator protocol 5
21:11:15  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/game-coordinator] TrueBrain opened pull request #26: Feature: support for Game Coordinator protocol 5
21:11:27  <TrueBrain> okay ... that is the basics for it ..
21:11:30  <TrueBrain> needs a bit of cleaning up
21:13:03  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/game-coordinator] TrueBrain updated pull request #26: Feature: support for Game Coordinator protocol 5
21:15:09  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/game-coordinator] TrueBrain updated pull request #26: Feature: support for Game Coordinator protocol 5
21:49:43  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
21:54:09  *** Wolf01 has quit IRC
22:06:50  *** Gustavo6046_ has joined #openttd
22:10:08  *** Gustavo6- has joined #openttd
22:10:52  *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC
22:10:52  *** Gustavo6- is now known as Gustavo6046
22:14:55  *** Gustavo6046_ has quit IRC
22:23:59  *** Xaroth8 has joined #openttd
22:24:29  *** supermop_Home has joined #openttd
22:24:36  <supermop_Home> hello
22:24:57  *** jez has joined #openttd
22:24:59  <jez>
22:25:41  <jez> ^ why does this change from a 1/2 to a 1/180 chance of an industry closing when there's no production in a smooth economy?  i've been debugging my game with a lumber mill whose trees I remove completely, and there's almost no chance it will shut down even though it has zero production.
22:26:26  *** Xaroth has quit IRC
22:26:49  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
22:29:35  <FLHerne> jez: Smooth economy makes changes much more frequently
22:30:01  <FLHerne> So my first guess would be that it's supposed to result in similar probability per month
22:30:13  <jez> FLHerne: doesn't appear to with regard to considering closing of lumber mills.  i'm debugging it and it's not really hitting it very often
22:30:21  <FLHerne> (my second guess would be that it's a nonsensical mistake of some kind :p)
22:31:56  <FLHerne> Shutdowns of secondary industries with 0 production are always quite low
22:32:18  <FLHerne> Have you tried with non-smooth for comparison?
22:33:13  <jez> nope... but i did change the 180 to a 2 (same difference) and it closes relatively quickly
22:33:15  *** Gustavo6046_ has joined #openttd
22:33:17  <jez> few months max
22:33:20  <FLHerne> Usually only a very small number of secondary industries are ever served by players
22:33:30  <FLHerne> So most of them will have 0 production
22:33:33  <jez> right but the lumber mill is a special case
22:33:40  <jez> you don't serve it, it eats trees
22:33:49  <jez> no trees - in TTD - resulted in it closing down
22:33:59  <FLHerne> If they are, then that line is irrelevant :p
22:34:14  <FLHerne> INDUSTRYLIFE_PROCESSING is factories and similar
22:34:19  <jez> except that i dont see any special case code for the lumber mill which is why it isnt closing
22:35:13  <FLHerne> Low probability of closing with 0 production makes sense for factories, otherwise you'd have constant pointless turnover
22:35:14  <jez> lumber mill is considered in that category too
22:35:27  <jez> yeah
22:35:28  <FLHerne> So maybe the problem is a lack of special-casing for lumber mills
22:35:45  <jez> which is surprising because it's pretty darn obvious that they are a special case
22:36:01  <jez> they accept nothing
22:36:45  <FLHerne> It's possible that someone deliberately chose to un-special-case them
22:37:13  <FLHerne> From a gameplay perspective, it would be quite annoying if a mill I had trains etc. running from closed down permanently from lack of trees
22:37:28  <jez> not really
22:37:28  <FLHerne> Stopping production seems enough really to me
22:37:35  <jez> the point is that you're meant to keep the trees going
22:37:45  *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC
22:37:45  *** Gustavo6046_ is now known as Gustavo6046
22:37:49  <jez> also, it's not really hard to keep the trees going.  you pretty much have to go to effort to get rid of trees
22:37:54  <FLHerne> (are you sure TTD does actually close them and not stop production?)
22:38:24  <jez> i admit it's been a while since i played it, but im sure i remember one closing down due to lack of trees, and also the l10n message says "lumber mill closes down due to lack of trees"
22:38:28  <FLHerne> OTTD has settings where it plants fewer/no trees automatically
22:38:41  <jez> well, you get paid a lot more for wood
22:38:50  <FLHerne> I think there was a fix for the interaction between that and lumber mills recently, but I can't remember what
22:38:53  <jez> that's the reward for having the extra effort of planting trees, i think
22:39:14  <jez> also if it shuts down, you can just fund a new one anyway
22:40:45  <FLHerne> Well, even with the current behaviour that can happen, it's just improbable unless you ignore it for too long
22:41:31  <FLHerne> I don't play in tropic (or with the default industries at all) very often, so the above is pretty much all I can say about that :p
22:41:37  <jez> it seems like a bug to me.  and i want to be able to shut one of the damn ones down without cheating :-)  i should be able to do it by bulldozing trees
22:42:08  <FLHerne> If you think they need special-casing, might be worth opening a PR or discussion with some different proposed mechanic
22:42:43  <FLHerne> I can't remember, do lumber mills also eat trees when not being served?
22:42:50  <jez> yes
22:43:22  <FLHerne> You'd still get some annoying turnover then, especially if the placement puts them on tiny islands or something
22:43:41  <FLHerne> maybe that's acceptable, I don't know
22:43:48  <jez> the whole point of the lumber mill mechanic is that you have to fund them, you have to put them in the right place, it's the player's responsibility
22:44:05  <jez> saying that mechanic is "annoying" is like saying the game is "annoying" because you cant just leave it and do nothing
22:48:14  <FLHerne> Oh, bleh, they're always funding-only
22:48:22  <FLHerne> shows how much I don't play tropic
22:48:29  <FLHerne> Makes sense to me then
22:48:37  <jez> what does
22:48:53  <FLHerne> Making them die more easily
22:49:00  <jez> yeah
22:49:45  <FLHerne> If they were autoplaced, you'd have an annoying cycle of being placed, not having enough trees, dying, and being replaced until the RNG happened to find stable places for the expected number
22:49:53  <FLHerne> or indefinitely on some maps
22:50:04  <FLHerne> but if the expected number is 0 that's fine
22:51:27  *** tokai has joined #openttd
22:51:27  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
22:58:20  *** tokai|noir has quit IRC
23:00:30  *** Gustavo6046_ has joined #openttd
23:05:17  *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC
23:05:17  *** Gustavo6046_ is now known as Gustavo6046
23:33:56  *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC
23:38:15  *** Gustavo6046_ has joined #openttd
23:42:35  *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC
23:42:35  *** Gustavo6046_ is now known as Gustavo6046

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk