Log for #openttd on 21st August 2021:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:39:50  *** Progman has quit IRC
00:53:15  *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC
01:13:29  *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd
01:50:41  *** Flygon has joined #openttd
02:30:35  *** glx has quit IRC
02:44:48  *** tokai has joined #openttd
02:44:48  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
02:46:44  *** D-HUND has joined #openttd
02:50:06  *** debdog has quit IRC
02:51:51  *** tokai|noir has quit IRC
02:59:27  *** Wormnest has quit IRC
03:50:01  *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
03:50:01  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
03:56:56  *** tokai has quit IRC
05:50:05  *** tokai has joined #openttd
05:50:05  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
05:56:59  *** tokai|noir has quit IRC
07:17:39  *** nielsm has joined #openttd
07:22:56  *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd
07:32:17  *** Progman has joined #openttd
07:33:54  *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
07:33:54  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
07:40:49  *** tokai has quit IRC
07:41:10  *** Donk has joined #openttd
07:57:02  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
07:57:15  *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
08:01:48  *** Donk has quit IRC
08:41:19  <TrueBrain> "this=0x8" <- never a good sign, right?
08:55:58  <Rubidium> it rarely ever is, so an earlier nullptr check's missing I guess
08:57:58  <TrueBrain> r/wooosh? :D
08:58:28  <TrueBrain> that sweet moment you remove 20 includes, and it still compiles!
09:02:34  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
09:06:43  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #9502: Fix #9501: [Network] crash when more than one game-info query was pen…
09:07:40  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #9501: [Crash]: Crashes when Multiplayer Opened
09:08:03  <TrueBrain> now while doing this, I finally found a way to reproduce another bug we are having ... lets see what that is about ..
09:08:16  <_dp_> there are some (base*)8 in settings.h ... whatever those were supposed to mean
09:11:40  <andythenorth> yo
09:12:44  <LordAro> TrueBrain: nice :)
09:16:49  <TrueBrain> error: conflicting declaration ‘auto item’
09:16:53  <TrueBrain> yet another impressive error :D
09:22:34  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] CzechRepublic98 opened issue #243: [cs_CZ] Translator access request
09:29:50  *** tokai has joined #openttd
09:29:50  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
09:33:27  <TrueBrain> okay, so if the last joined server no longer exists on the GC, you have the network list selected, and you hit Search Internet, it crashes
09:33:30  <TrueBrain> well, that was hiding
09:33:54  <TrueBrain> owh, and you have NOT the last joined selected
09:36:28  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #9503: Fix: [Network] crash when last-joined server that is no longer available
09:36:39  *** tokai|noir has quit IRC
09:36:58  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: maybe you have some ideas how we can cleanly solve that a "full server" is not allowing game-info queries?
09:37:22  <TrueBrain> AcceptConnection handles this logic, but as such incoming connection will never use a client-slot, it feels a bit weird to deny game-info queries for that reason
09:38:18  <TrueBrain> in other news: yesterday there were more game-sessions over direct-IPv4 than over TURN :P
09:38:49  <TrueBrain> an average TURN session is ~1 hour
09:38:50  <LordAro> \o/
09:39:26  <TrueBrain> and despite some servers having direct-IPv4 available, in 16 cases yesterday the connection from a client failed
09:39:52  <Tru2021-08-21T10:20:02  <TrueBrain> 9502 gives more options to handle these situations, I like that :)
10:59:43  *** tokai has joined #openttd
10:59:43  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
11:06:29  *** tokai|noir has quit IRC
11:21:01  <andythenorth> oof
11:21:06  * andythenorth playing solitaire
11:39:20  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #9502: Fix #9501: [Network] crash when more than one game-info query was pen…
12:08:40  *** glx has joined #openttd
12:08:40  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx
12:15:27  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] glx22 commented on issue #243: [cs_CZ] Translator access request
12:33:52  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
12:36:05  *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
12:52:16  <andythenorth> hmm
12:52:19  <andythenorth> still solitaire
12:52:21  <andythenorth> why?
12:52:29  <andythenorth> what about lunch eh?
12:59:04  *** virtualrandomnumber has joined #openttd
12:59:33  *** virtualrandomnumber has quit IRC
12:59:52  <andythenorth> hmm
12:59:56  <andythenorth> was I doing FIRS?
13:00:50  <andythenorth> yes :)
13:01:04  <andythenorth> ok so I need to replicate FIRS production logic, but in GS
13:01:05  *** Progman has quit IRC
13:01:09  <andythenorth> for goal tracking
13:01:22  <andythenorth> looks like GSCargoMonitor can do that
13:02:45  * andythenorth needs to generate Squirrel from python
13:05:07  <andythenorth> this is not the droid I am looking for
13:05:49  <glx> it's not too different from generating nml from python
13:07:43  * andythenorth wondered if there was a library, there doesn't seem to be
13:07:49  <andythenorth> so I'll use my html templater :)
13:07:54  <andythenorth> so inappropriate, but works
13:38:28  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9502: Fix #9501: [Network] crash when more than one game-info query was pen…
13:39:47  <peter1138> Lunch eh?
13:42:25  <andythenorth> I did
13:43:12  *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
13:43:12  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
13:50:06  *** tokai has quit IRC
13:58:41  *** tokai has joined #openttd
13:58:41  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
14:01:35  *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC
14:05:36  *** tokai|noir has quit IRC
14:05:51  *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
14:05:51  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
14:06:48  *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd
14:12:42  *** Gustavo6046_ has joined #openttd
14:12:46  *** tokai has quit IRC
14:14:55  *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC
14:14:55  *** Gustavo6046_ is now known as Gustavo6046
14:17:01  *** tokai has joined #openttd
14:17:01  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
14:23:56  *** tokai|noir has quit IRC
14:29:05  *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
14:29:05  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
14:36:14  *** tokai has quit IRC
14:36:40  *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC
15:06:35  *** tokai has joined #openttd
15:06:36  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
15:13:36  *** tokai|noir has quit IRC
15:31:29  *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
15:31:30  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
15:38:31  *** tokai has quit IRC
15:42:21  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
15:51:53  *** tokai has joined #openttd
15:51:53  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
15:59:10  *** tokai|noir has quit IRC
16:03:29  *** tokai has quit IRC
16:16:23  *** Progman has joined #openttd
16:18:05  *** tokai has joined #openttd
16:18:06  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
16:46:21  *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
18:06:55  *** Nicd has joined #openttd
18:08:49  <Nicd> hi, I upgraded to 1.11 on macOS and now everything is super tiny. according to this forum post I should set interface and font size to double, but in game options the interface size only lets me select "normal" or "auto-detect"?
18:13:27  *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
18:13:28  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
18:15:12  <michi_cc> Nicd: Not sure about the exact name, but there's also a setting to limit graphics zoom. This limits GUI zoom as well.
18:15:38  <michi_cc> It's the large settings tree, though.
18:16:08  <Nicd> maximum zoom in level?
18:16:43  <Nicd> that was it!
18:16:50  <Nicd> that enabled the double size interface in the options
18:16:54  <Nicd> thanks <3
18:17:46  *** gelignite has joined #openttd
18:20:21  *** tokai has quit IRC
18:33:10  *** Flygon has quit IRC
18:46:07  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
18:46:31  *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
18:48:52  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
18:48:53  <DorpsGek>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:54:21  <TrueBrain> one happy customer!
18:54:49  *** gelignite has quit IRC
18:54:51  <TrueBrain> glx: nice catch in #9502, no clue why I derp'd there :D
19:09:05  *** Samu has joined #openttd
19:37:08  *** Nicd has left #openttd
19:40:25  *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd
19:40:37  *** iSoSyS has quit IRC
19:47:43  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
19:48:22  <andythenorth> so should every newgrf feature be able to trigger a game event?
19:48:39  <andythenorth> vehicles, industries, industry tiles, objects, houses, rail/road/tram types?
20:04:50  *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
20:06:00  *** jottyfan has joined #openttd
20:09:05  *** jottyfan has quit IRC
20:41:10  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
20:44:23  *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
20:48:13  <nielsm> okay how about adding a flag for AI scripts that lets them cheat. it would be a static flag in the info.nut and be displayed in the AI configuration in-game, and then allow the AI to access a few cheat functions (give itself money, maybe magic bulldozer, maybe override town rating). one use would be those "town traffic" etc things...
20:50:14  *** Tirili has joined #openttd
20:51:39  <andythenorth> GS can do it? :)
20:51:58  <nielsm> then you need a GS that does it
20:52:17  <nielsm> and not use any other GS
20:54:07  *** Samu has quit IRC
20:55:01  * andythenorth forgot
20:55:08  <andythenorth> shall we make a GS merger tool?
20:55:11  <andythenorth> that merges them all
20:55:20  <andythenorth> I think they could be written to do it
20:55:37  <andythenorth> have each sub GS declare a main loop function that can be called
20:55:46  <andythenorth> then call those from a parent main loop
20:55:55  <andythenorth> so each GS acts more like a module
20:56:17  <andythenorth> if they were each encapsulated in a directory, merging would be plausible
20:56:29  <nielsm> the thing is that a lot of features for GS are designed around having complete control
20:56:44  <nielsm> what if you load two GS that attempt to control town growth? which one "wins"?
20:58:26  <nielsm> or one that makes a goal for the player to build somewhere and will penalise them if they don't, and another that makes a rule that players are not allowed to build in that area and penalizes them for building there
20:59:47  <nielsm> it's going to be even more of a support nightmare with GS authors having to battle it out whose fault it is, with the core game being the third participant for allowing the situation to happen in the first place
21:02:04  <andythenorth> set the load order
21:02:13  <andythenorth> I _know_ it has edge cases
21:02:14  <andythenorth> but eh :)
21:02:21  <nielsm> no it doesn't even have to do with load order
21:02:29  <andythenorth> eh?
21:02:35  <nielsm> it's two gods pulling the rope in each their own direction
21:02:36  <andythenorth> whoever runs last in main loop will win
21:02:48  <andythenorth> anyway I have authored a FIRS GS
21:03:00  <andythenorth> all it does is build certain industries in town, because grf can't
21:03:12  <andythenorth> but that means no other GS for FIRS players
21:03:23  <andythenorth> so I probably kill all other GS based on FIRS hegemony
21:03:54  <andythenorth> or I merge the other GS into it :P
21:04:50  <nielsm> I've read some bad stories about "pulling in each their own direction" mods with one thing known as Brutal Doom, a mod/sourceport for original Doom, that changes around a lot of things
21:06:25  <nielsm> which causes lots of other maps/mods for original doom to not work as intended, and there's pretty much a war between the factions saying one or the other side is at fault for things not "working properly" or allowing it to be loaded together when it wouldn't work
21:06:37  <andythenorth> sounds like grf :P
21:06:48  <andythenorth> FIRS kbans itself with loads of grfs
21:06:50  <andythenorth> including trains
21:07:59  <nielsm> NewGRF has a pretty good mehanism for detecting what else is going on and being loaded, so you can adjust/block yourself depending on circumstances
21:09:13  <nielsm> but with GS that would be more or less impossible since it's not just an enumerated list of features you can implement, but essentially an infinite number of rulesets. trying to enumerate constraints to communicate that would be so difficult to do well I'd just call it impossible
21:10:18  <andythenorth> AI then? :)
21:10:19  <FLHerne> andythenorth: nielsm's "require the player to build somewhere but also don't let them" thing doesn't have a 'winner', both behaviours will work perfectly fine
21:10:19  <andythenorth> FIRS AI
21:10:54  <FLHerne> so loop order doesn't matter, the player just gets stuck with a catch-22
21:10:57  <andythenorth> FLHerne I am aware that it will be a car crash of contention :)
21:11:24  <andythenorth> but in the specific condition where 2 GS control the same resource, the last one to execute will win no?
21:11:45  <glx> they both win
21:11:52  <nielsm> or imagine two GS both trying to force towns to have a road network of different styles, they will keep building their own and removing the other's roads
21:12:03  <andythenorth> yes
21:12:19  <nielsm> the player will see a schizophrenic game
21:12:57  <glx> and some GS set a rule (a setting) and never check if it is modified, and expect it to stay
21:14:02  <andythenorth> it will be amusing
21:15:26  <glx> it's probably possible to detect at compile time if 2 scripts use the same group of functions, but that would be a pain to implement a check like that
21:15:50  <andythenorth> it's also hard to know which ones are harmless and which aren't
21:16:22  <nielsm> anyway, that's the argument for why multiple GS is probably never going to happen
21:16:28  <glx> oh 2 GS writing the story book would be fun too :)
21:17:11  <nielsm> and that's the argument for why I think it'd be okay for AIs to get access to cheating (as long as they manifest themselves as a cheating AI)
21:18:33  *** jottyfan has joined #openttd
21:18:52  *** jottyfan has quit IRC
21:19:03  <glx> the only way to have multiple GS is someone manually merge them
21:19:43  <glx> and handling possible conflicts during the merge
21:19:47  <andythenorth> nielsm I originally meant 'if GS can cheat, why not AI?' :)
21:19:50  <andythenorth> and players can cheat
21:20:10  <andythenorth> I will probably have to merge the main GS into the FIRS GS
21:20:19  <nielsm> well part of the original purpose of the AI design is that they need follow the same rules as players
21:20:24  * andythenorth wonders if Squirrel can nest .nut files in dirs
21:20:38  <andythenorth> "add a setting"
21:20:38  <nielsm> original goal *
21:20:47  <andythenorth> "AI can cheat: bool"
21:21:17  <glx> and GS don't cheat, they are god :)
21:21:34  <nielsm> see that's precisely what my proposal is: a flag in the info.nut file, "i_want_to_cheat = true"
21:22:07  <nielsm> and when that flag is set, the AI can call the cheat functions and succeed, but it also shows in the UI the player uses to select/configure AIs
21:25:29  <andythenorth> FIRS + Silicon Valley
21:25:33  <andythenorth> FIRS + NoCarGoal
21:25:38  <andythenorth> FIRS + Busy Bee
21:25:45  <andythenorth> no city builders though :)
21:26:16  <glx> an option could be a GS (still unique) using a GS framework in squirrel to manage sub-GS deisgned for it
21:27:20  <glx> so no changes in openttd, and GS authors find a way to work around the limitation
21:27:45  <nielsm> yeah, something that basically runs a main loop and asks all submodules to do a tick-step, and distributes events to everyone
21:28:18  <nielsm> and then it's up to an author to assemble some modules that make sense together and can be configured to work as a whole
21:28:43  <andythenorth> the FIRS one would rely on parameter to configure exclusive behaviour on/off
21:33:17  <andythenorth> web GS maker :P
21:33:21  <andythenorth> oof vuln maker
21:47:19  *** tokai has joined #openttd
21:47:19  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
21:52:32  *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC
21:54:15  *** tokai|noir has quit IRC
22:19:17  *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
22:19:17  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
22:26:05  *** tokai has quit IRC
22:26:23  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
23:10:26  *** nielsm has quit IRC
23:14:03  *** Wolf01 has quit IRC
23:42:57  *** tokai has joined #openttd
23:42:58  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
23:49:39  *** tokai|noir has quit IRC
23:52:52  *** Progman has quit IRC

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk