Log for #openttd on 6th September 2021:
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10:41:44  <Samu> hi
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17:14:49  <Samu> wow, oil tankers can refit to oil, rubber and water
17:15:03  <Samu> recent change?
17:19:21  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] kaomoneus commented on discussion #8397: Daylength
17:24:01  <andythenorth> Samu changelog exists :)
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17:43:52  <_dp_> is there a way to completely reset newgrf cache? neither reloadnewgrfs nor rescannewgrf helps
17:44:12  <_dp_> I still get newgrf mismatch with the sever after I change it even though they use exact same file
17:44:22  <_dp_> have to restart client as well
17:49:32  <Samu> rubber is liquid?
17:51:34  <_dp_> Samu,
17:52:29  <Samu> white like in the game
17:52:44  <Samu> very interesting
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17:57:45  <_dp_> is there some simple way to figure out ground sprite for an object in nml?
17:58:23  <_dp_> without some ridiculous switch for climate, ground type and water
18:00:01  <_dp_> there is OBJ_FLAG_DRAW_WATER but it only works for flat water tiles
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18:05:09  <andythenorth> wuak
18:05:16  <andythenorth> ha ha obiqan
18:05:21  <andythenorth> quak
18:11:16  <frosch123> noo
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18:14:43  <_dp_> does anyone have opengfx+ landscape source by any chance?
18:15:01  <_dp_> or knows where to find it...
18:17:00  <andythenorth> seems like everywhere I go, people are looking for coop stuff
18:17:04  <andythenorth> le oof :)
18:17:41  <frosch123> i'll try to push stuff to github
18:18:31  <frosch123> probably not today :)
18:18:48  <andythenorth> that is how I feel about a lot of things :)
18:18:49  <andythenorth> 'not today'
18:18:56  <andythenorth> isn't that some line from game of thrones also?
18:19:15  <frosch123> the books are still on the shelve
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18:22:58  <LordAro> "There is only one god, and His name is Death. And there is only one thing we say to Death: 'not today'"
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18:23:54  <_dp_> hm, why is nearby_tile_is_water(0, 0) not returning shores?
18:23:57  <_dp_> ground { sprite: (nearby_tile_is_water(0, 0) ? GROUNDSPRITE_WATER : GROUNDSPRITE_NORMAL); }
18:24:28  <_dp_> I checked spec, openttd and nml sources and everything looks like it should
18:26:29  <frosch123> did you check the newgrf inspect window?
18:27:00  <frosch123> oh, you check (0,0), isn't that the object itself?
18:27:19  <frosch123> it may return a water class, but it's not water
18:28:12  <_dp_> well, it has OBJ_FLAG_ON_WATER
18:31:16  <_dp_> oh, it changes MP_WATER into MP_OBJECT...
18:35:16  <_dp_> so objects don't have shores at all basically?
18:38:52  <frosch123> ottd does not know whether objects are water or land
18:39:28  <frosch123> iirc the flooding does some compromise by making objects not flood neighbour tiles, but also not draw land-dikes
18:40:00  <frosch123> the land/water thing is purely visual for objects/industries
18:40:10  <frosch123> they can't tell which tile edges are water
18:42:49  <andythenorth> LordAro yes that :)
18:42:52  <_dp_> flooding seems to work but only from full tiles
18:45:43  <LordAro> andythenorth: i had to google it, but i do remember it
18:48:08  <_dp_> guess I'll just check tile height and call it good enough
18:52:06  <_dp_> And I assume there is no slope_to_sprite_offset for shores?
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19:47:50  <Samu> some AIs do amazing things, then there's some others that do this :8
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20:01:15  <Samu> ppl use way too many newgrfs
20:01:52  <Samu> had a short peak at the forums
20:12:17  <andythenorth> FML does nobody know how to lol anymore?
20:12:34  * andythenorth having a day off
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20:13:04  <andythenorth> not here - just every single other community I'm in right now
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20:14:54  <Timberwolf> It's all about the long essays in which you wow people about how you're very smart these days.
20:15:03  <Timberwolf> Humour is a weird artifact from the 20th century.
20:15:45  * Timberwolf is very good at forgetting exactly what he was like when he was 15-16 or so.
20:19:32  <Timberwolf> Whenever I wish I was younger I remind myself of the good luck I had in getting past the "I am very smart" and "it's funny because it's offensive" phases before the Internet learnt how to remember everything.
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20:30:43  <FLHerne> I think a lot of the weird stuff I wrote on tt-forums is still there
20:34:23  <Timberwolf> I have some fairly embarrassing deep history on car forums. Nothing too horrific, but a lot of "naive but adamant outlook of someone in their early 20s"
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20:46:24  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl opened pull request #9544: Change: Make pf.yapf.rail_firstred_twoway_eol on by default
20:50:37  <_dp_> peace, love and twoway_eol xD
20:51:37  <_aD> Peace, love and DorpsGek?
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21:01:45  <LordAro> i don't actually know what twoway_eol does
21:03:12  <LordAro> Timberwolf: some of my early tt-f stuff is very... "young"
21:03:23  <LordAro> i do like how you can see me learn to program though
21:06:30  <glx> looking at the coop article it seems very dangerous if used incorrectly
21:07:32  <glx> "Most important is that a choice is made without looking ahead at all. This includes checking if the chosen path actually leads to the desired destination." <-- this part scares me
21:08:24  <_dp_> what is the "correct" use of two way block signal?
21:08:29  <_dp_> deadlocking networks? :p
21:08:39  <Timberwolf> I would say I feel better about it if the signals it applies to are locked behind a setting, but we know how that tends to go...
21:09:19  <Timberwolf> 1,000 "I enabled the setting people said would turn me into a pro gamer but now my trains are doing weird stuff" posts later...
21:12:27  <Timberwolf> IIRC it's the vanilla TTD behaviour, but then you're also dealing with the classic "go in the compass direction of the station, if there are two roughly equal options then turn left" pathfinder.
21:12:38  <glx> I understand how useful the twoway_eol can be, but it really should only be enabled when you know what you're doing
21:13:39  <Timberwolf> Indeed. I think the main issue is, "I know what is does, but my server admin doesn't, and so it's at the default and I can't build the stuff I want to"
21:14:26  <_dp_> glx, if you don't know what you're doing with twoway signal you are highly unlikely to do anything good with it anyway :p
21:15:06  <glx> two way everywhere, like in TT time :)
21:15:28  <Timberwolf> And no signals on diagonal track.
21:15:39  <glx> and teached by IA
21:17:18  <_dp_> glx, yeah, then "why r my trains stuck", "stupid pathfinder" and "add waypoints"
21:18:06  <_dp_> sorry, "stupid trains", pf is too complex of a word :p
21:18:19  <_aD> "why don't they work like game x?"
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21:24:06  <_dp_> as I see it twoway eol is basically "make it easier to use advanced signal stupidly" vs "allow advanced techniques on average server"
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21:27:28  <_aD> but I'll only run a single train on this branch line!
21:27:32  <_dp_> btw, reddit has twoway_eol:
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21:28:32  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #9544: Change: Make pf.yapf.rail_firstred_twoway_eol on by default
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21:38:50  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #9544: Change: Make pf.yapf.rail_firstred_twoway_eol on by default
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