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00:08:18 *** arikover has quit IRC 00:47:17 *** Progman has quit IRC 01:01:41 *** tokai has joined #openttd 01:01:41 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 01:08:21 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 02:01:02 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 02:18:07 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 02:28:58 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 02:29:22 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 02:34:33 *** Tirili has quit IRC 02:39:06 *** Tirili has joined #openttd 03:02:35 *** debdog has joined #openttd 03:05:56 *** D-HUND has quit IRC 03:09:26 *** glx has quit IRC 04:19:44 *** _aD has quit IRC 04:39:18 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 04:47:59 *** Flygon has quit IRC 04:53:24 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 05:19:21 *** Tirili has quit IRC 06:17:43 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:19:29 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 06:28:40 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:56:17 *** EER has joined #openttd 07:03:55 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 07:16:33 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 07:23:11 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #9575: Feature: Add use of Intel Intrinsics & RDTSC on e2k (MCST Elbrus 2000) https://git.io/JzDaW 07:26:16 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 07:46:25 <TrueBrain> wauw, explaining STUN is .. difficult 07:46:28 <TrueBrain> not sure it is worth it 07:46:48 <TrueBrain> (it is in our repo, but I was trying to make a news post) 07:47:54 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 07:48:08 <nielsm> "Instead of only B connecting to A, the game coordinator sets up to A connects to B and B to A at the same time, and this can trick the routers in-between to let the connection establish when it would usually be blocked." 07:48:20 <nielsm> I think that's reasonably correct and concise? 07:48:38 <TrueBrain> yeah, that part I have; the part where I went wrong is when I tried to explain why it sometimes fails :P 07:48:47 <TrueBrain> so I am just not going to :D 07:49:12 <nielsm> just leave that to the "this _can_ trick the routers in-between" phrasing 07:49:20 <nielsm> it can, it won't always 07:50:01 <andythenorth> isn't it just that thing where you have 2 phone calls on 2 phones, and you hold them up to each other? 07:50:10 <TrueBrain> kinda 07:50:17 <TrueBrain> but not really 07:50:18 <TrueBrain> :) 07:50:31 <andythenorth> that would be more like some proxy 07:50:32 <andythenorth> nvm 07:50:32 <nielsm> that's TURN, where you have a proxy in-between that relays 07:51:59 <nielsm> it's more like two rooms with 65535 hallways between them, each hallways has a door on each end and the doors are locked from the inside of the rooms 07:52:24 <nielsm> to meet up you need to agree on which hallway you open the door to from each room 07:52:59 <nielsm> and that's what the game coordinator does, it tells you which hallway you need to go into so you meet the other player 08:21:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain opened pull request #225: Add: news post about new Multiplayer Experience https://git.io/JzDDE 08:26:08 *** Progman has joined #openttd 08:27:19 <LordAro> nice stuff 08:27:28 <LordAro> could do with a bit of copy editing, but looks good 08:28:11 <LordAro> not sure about your 20%/15% numbers though 08:28:28 <LordAro> isn't it 20% can't use direct ip, and 15% of those can't use STUN? 08:28:32 <LordAro> therefore... 08:28:36 <LordAro> @calc 0.2*0.15 08:28:36 <DorpsGek> LordAro: 0.03 08:33:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #225: Add: news post about new Multiplayer Experience https://git.io/JzDDE 08:33:43 <TrueBrain> tnx LordAro :) 08:34:03 <TrueBrain> @calc 100 / 62 * 13 08:34:03 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 20.96774193548387 08:34:12 <TrueBrain> 20.9% of the non-direct IP connections are TURN 08:35:20 <nielsm> line 93: "And the Game Coordinator can now coordinator " 08:35:27 <nielsm> coordinat_e_ 08:35:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #225: Add: news post about new Multiplayer Experience https://git.io/JzDDE 08:35:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #225: Add: news post about new Multiplayer Experience https://git.io/JzDDE 08:35:56 <TrueBrain> fixed 08:36:31 <TrueBrain> LordAro: only 24% of the current connections are via Direct IP 08:37:00 <nielsm> 111: "Change a singleplayer game into a multiplayer game seamless" -- seamless_ly_ 08:37:02 <TrueBrain> but I kinda assume that number will go down over time, as less servers will configure Direct IP :) 08:37:15 <TrueBrain> nielsm: please add it in the PR, bit easier to find for me etc :) 08:38:16 <TrueBrain> LordAro: https://openttd.grafana.net/dashboard/snapshot/SvXkG1CEh7wP2h72YkfqFI2skg9Xuza2 <- these are the numbers btw; let me know if I can adjust my wording to make those more clear :D 08:40:23 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #225: Add: news post about new Multiplayer Experience https://git.io/JzDDE 08:49:35 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] James103 commented on pull request #225: Add: news post about new Multiplayer Experience https://git.io/JzDFV 08:52:40 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i'd suggest that after release it will go up a bit, as most of the "proper" servers move over 08:52:46 <LordAro> but as you say, difficult to know 08:55:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] nielsmh commented on pull request #225: Add: news post about new Multiplayer Experience https://git.io/JzDbF 08:55:41 <nielsm> here's a few suggestions 08:56:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] James103 commented on pull request #225: Add: news post about new Multiplayer Experience https://git.io/JzDN0 08:57:24 <TrueBrain> tnx nielsm :) 09:03:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #225: Add: news post about new Multiplayer Experience https://git.io/JzDA5 09:03:36 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #225: Add: news post about new Multiplayer Experience https://git.io/JzDDE 09:04:20 <TrueBrain> did not apply all stylistic suggestions btw, hope you don't mind :) 09:05:32 <TrueBrain> but given the feedback is all in the details, I guess the main story is clear; good :) 09:11:41 <LordAro> :) 09:11:56 <TrueBrain> LordAro: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9575 <- "Add" or "Feature"? 09:12:32 <LordAro> add, imo 09:12:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #9575: Feature: Add use of Intel Intrinsics & RDTSC on e2k (MCST Elbrus 2000) https://git.io/Jz1hV 09:12:52 <TrueBrain> good, we are aligned :) 09:14:11 *** gelignite has quit IRC 09:17:17 *** Samu has joined #openttd 09:21:57 <Samu> hello 09:23:06 <Samu> I have a question regarding SmallStack https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/station_type.h#L29 09:23:40 <Samu> since im increasing the StationID pool, do i also have to increase the 0xFFFD in this SmallStack accordingly? 09:25:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro commented on pull request #225: Add: news post about new Multiplayer Experience https://git.io/Jzyvo 09:26:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #225: Add: news post about new Multiplayer Experience https://git.io/JzDDE 09:26:48 <TrueBrain> funny how you changed things back how they were :P 09:27:45 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #225: Add: news post about new Multiplayer Experience https://git.io/JzyfI 09:29:13 <LordAro> :p 09:29:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #225: Add: news post about new Multiplayer Experience https://git.io/JzDDE 09:29:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro commented on pull request #225: Add: news post about new Multiplayer Experience https://git.io/JzyJf 09:29:58 <TrueBrain> I trust your linguistic capability over mine ;) 09:30:55 <TrueBrain> "If our regular donations (and thank you so much for those!) run low (currently our donations look healthy), we will let you know, and run some kind of fundraiser." ? 09:32:35 <TrueBrain> no, going to rewrite it completely 09:34:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #225: Add: news post about new Multiplayer Experience https://git.io/JzDDE 09:42:34 <TrueBrain> meh, switching to Cloudflare for openttd.org is very difficult due to the complexity of the domain 09:42:49 <TrueBrain> kinda requires us to pay 200 dollar a month to use the more advanced setup method they have .. yeah, that is not realistic for us :D 09:43:23 <LordAro> wiki is not that expensive :p 09:58:11 <TrueBrain> meh, and I cannot test if it will work before changing the NS servers :P 09:58:24 <TrueBrain> guess what I can do is import the current zone file, and switch the NS servers 09:58:29 <TrueBrain> that should not change anything, basically 10:27:56 <TrueBrain> we really have too many subdomains :P 10:31:41 <nielsm> would it be simpler to move some of the things to separate second-level domains? 10:31:56 <nielsm> like openttd-servers.org and openttd-content.org 10:32:38 <TrueBrain> it would, and we considered it when migrating to AWS 10:32:42 <TrueBrain> openttd-cdn.org was ours for a while 10:32:48 <TrueBrain> the problem is that people trust openttd.org 10:32:59 <TrueBrain> so in the end we voted against using other tlds 10:33:10 <TrueBrain> euh, not tlds, but you get what I mean 10:34:38 <TrueBrain> so I am now creating NNN.aws.openttd.org" target="_blank">NNN.aws.openttd.org as domain where AWS fills it records .. and I am making a CNAME on Cloudflare from NNN.openttd.org to NNN.aws.openttd.org" target="_blank">NNN.aws.openttd.org 10:34:48 <TrueBrain> it does mean people accessing openttd.org services need to do 1 additional DNS lookup 10:34:58 <nielsm> not directly 10:35:09 <nielsm> usually the recursive nameserver clients use handle all that 10:35:32 <TrueBrain> who ever handles it, it is another roundtrip to another NS server :) 10:35:56 <TrueBrain> so if either Cloudflare or AWS DNS have a disruption, it will not work 10:35:56 <nielsm> yeah, but set the TTL reasonably and it gets cached 10:36:04 <nielsm> true 10:36:08 <TrueBrain> it isn't an issue on its own, just another layer 10:36:14 <TrueBrain> I was hoping I could avoid that, but .. I do not see how 10:36:28 <TrueBrain> so now I am manually entering ~150 CNAMEs in Cloudflare 10:36:51 <TrueBrain> and provisioning a shitton of domains on Route53 :P 10:37:24 <TrueBrain> I fully understand why Cloudflare wants to have full control of a domain, but it is annoying as fuck :P 10:37:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] michicc approved pull request #225: Add: news post about new Multiplayer Experience https://git.io/Jzyl7 10:38:26 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain merged pull request #225: Add: news post about new Multiplayer Experience https://git.io/JzDDE 10:38:39 <TrueBrain> owh, lunch time! Almost forgot .. oops 10:51:55 <Samu> i have a question 10:52:09 <Samu> do I need to put parenthesis here? uint p1 = 1 << 8 | 1 << 16 | (GB(st, 16, 4) << 28); 11:01:48 <nielsm> IMO yes, even just for readability 11:02:03 <nielsm> separating things into visual groups 11:03:21 <nielsm> parentheses don't make anything slower or faster, but they affect readability. too many is tiring on the eyes, too few makes it require more effort to read the intended meaning 11:04:01 <nielsm> (okay, more parentheses might add a few microseconds to the compile time) 11:04:31 <TrueBrain> okay, that news post is a lot more text on the website than I expected, lol 11:04:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain created new tag: 1.4.36 https://git.io/JzyEf 11:09:42 <Samu> thx 11:21:09 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 11:30:03 *** virtualrandomnumber has joined #openttd 11:30:26 *** virtualrandomnumber has quit IRC 11:34:59 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 11:37:00 <TrueBrain> also published it on Steam, as there is where I noticed most questions about this :P 12:11:20 <TrueBrain> right, validating the DNS on Cloudflare is giving the same result as AWS .. 12:11:25 <TrueBrain> Python scripting ftw 12:13:13 *** glx has joined #openttd 12:13:13 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 12:16:15 <glx> ShipAI, and its weird usage of buoys, triggered differences in paths returned by exitdir and trackdir, http://glx.cloudns.org:8080/exitdir.png vs http://glx.cloudns.org:8080/trackdir.png 12:17:55 <nielsm> glx: fyi I don't think I'll do any more tweaking on the drawpf code, and definitely not turn it into a PR 12:18:06 <glx> node count difference is huge 12:18:19 <TrueBrain> that is no surprise, ofc :) 12:18:20 <glx> yeah drawpf is a nice debug branch 12:18:46 <glx> but there's no way it could end up in master 12:19:53 <glx> I think I should just PR a commit revert 12:20:12 <glx> minor diffs in path, huge performance improve 12:21:39 <TrueBrain> go for it :) 12:22:18 <TrueBrain> and if trackdir is kept anyway with the node .. shouldn't a "tile only" also work? 12:22:33 *** Beer has joined #openttd 12:22:40 <TrueBrain> would drastically reduce it even further :P 12:23:38 <TrueBrain> (just setting the ExitDir to a fixed value might be a quick way to test that?) 12:25:07 <TrueBrain> next step: small penalty if you are near shores, to make ships not travel this annoyingly close to shores? I so hate that :P 12:29:00 <michi_cc> And reverse the penalty if the ship has prop 15 greater than prop 14 (canal and ocean speed fraction). 12:31:26 <Samu> do NewGRFs make use of StationID, Im iliterate regarding NewGRF code 12:31:51 <nielsm> no 12:33:00 <Samu> cool, that's a relief 12:33:13 <glx> not sure tile only would work, as I understand yapf (I may be wrong), each open node will lead to only one new node, with the lowest cost 12:33:23 <glx> so mostly only a straight line 12:34:24 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 12:34:24 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 12:34:54 <glx> finally yapf is not that hard to understand, it's just split in so many files it's hard to follow 12:35:58 <nielsm> it's written as a framework to assemble pathfinders from 12:36:02 <nielsm> kind of 12:38:18 <TrueBrain> glx: I do not see why that would only lead to straight lines, I have to say :) 12:38:22 <TrueBrain> but maybe just worth a try 12:38:30 <Samu> are roadtypes 5 bits or 6 bits? 12:38:41 <Samu> i see some places with bits 5..9, others 5..10 12:38:44 <Samu> in comments 12:39:03 <TrueBrain> right, good thing I validated the DNS, found a few issues ... almost there :D 12:39:57 <glx> new tile is determined using old tile and old trackdir, you get 3 possible nodes on the new tile, with 3 different trackdirs, but using the tile only as key, you always discard 2 nodes 12:40:27 <TrueBrain> trackdirs = exitdirs? 12:40:46 <glx> 3 trackdirs can go to the same exitdir 12:41:14 <nielsm> exitdir is a tile edge 12:41:26 *** tokai has quit IRC 12:41:33 <nielsm> trackdir is both a track and direction along that track 12:41:40 <TrueBrain> let me rephrase: doesn't using only exitdir already dismiss that? 12:41:59 <glx> no because one entrydir goes to 3 exitdirs 12:42:20 <TrueBrain> either YAPF is a weird implementation of A* or I am missing something :P 12:42:31 <TrueBrain> if you are on tile A, you find neighbouring tiles, and give that a score 12:42:35 <TrueBrain> you put those on the open list 12:42:46 <Samu> how many roadtypes can there be? 31 or 63? 12:42:49 <TrueBrain> the lowest score survives if a node would only be a tile 12:42:54 <TrueBrain> that is the cheapest way to get on that tile 12:42:59 <nielsm> I think it might be better to think of vehicles going from tile edge to tile edge, rather than from tile to tile 12:43:31 <glx> on tile A, yapf uses the trackdir of the node to go to next tile (only one possible), then adds nodes that go outside of the new tiles 12:44:25 <glx> so each full tile has a minimum of 3 nodes, used to find more nodes 12:44:37 <TrueBrain> I have no clue what you just tried to say, sorry :D 12:44:57 <TrueBrain> "then adds nodes that go outside of the new tiles" <- I fail to parse this :( 12:45:25 <glx> when you enter the new tile, you can then follow 3 tracks 12:45:45 <glx> leading to the 3 tiles around the new tile 12:46:03 <glx> so 3 new nodes 12:47:03 <TrueBrain> okay, that I follow, and that is my point: I don't see the use of that 12:47:11 <TrueBrain> I should draw this out I guess :P 12:47:16 <TrueBrain> which is tricky 12:47:39 <TrueBrain> when A* is done properly, you don't need that much metadata to get the best route, mathematically 12:48:08 <glx> the base key for yapf is tile+trackdir 12:48:31 <TrueBrain> for trains, absolutely makes sense :) 12:48:40 <glx> tile+exitdir is just an optimisation, but that's how yapf works 12:48:43 <TrueBrain> for roads .. bit less so, but I assume it uses tile+exitdir already 12:48:50 <nielsm> the thing is that in the TTD movement model, the nodes are actually the center of tile edges, and the edges are tracks inside the tiles 12:49:27 <nielsm> but we don't have coordinates for the center of tile edges, we have coordinates for tiles, so the nodes are instead represented by the tile and the track+direction leading to that tile edge 12:49:50 <TrueBrain> that still means a tons of nodes are added for ship PF that are not relevant 12:49:58 <nielsm> probably yes 12:49:59 <TrueBrain> but I get what you say nielsm , tnx 12:50:18 <glx> yes and worse when using trackdir key for ships :) 12:50:30 <TrueBrain> what does roadpf use? 12:50:39 <glx> exitdir 12:50:41 <TrueBrain> pfew 12:50:52 <TrueBrain> but okay, basically YAPF abstracted train PF, and went from there 12:50:56 <glx> it's the only one that makes sense for road 12:51:08 <TrueBrain> as I said a few times already, I find YAPF very difficult to read because of the tons of abstraction on top of each other 12:51:18 <TrueBrain> it kinda loses the "I am used to A*, what are the f/g/h values" :P 12:51:43 <nielsm> if we end up making a new ship-specific pf can I suggest calling it Magellan? 12:52:03 <nielsm> (unless that name might carry too much negative baggage from the colonisation era) 12:52:10 <TrueBrain> :) 12:52:21 <TrueBrain> I have been looking into a mesh-based train PF 12:52:50 <TrueBrain> far less tricky than I expected 12:53:05 <TrueBrain> basically, create a single node out of a junction 12:53:13 <TrueBrain> and link those nodes 12:53:22 <TrueBrain> so track between junctions become irrelevant 12:53:46 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 12:53:56 <glx> lol just checked, for road yapf defaults to exitdir, but it's possible to use trackdir when disabling optimisations 12:54:04 <glx> just like ships 12:54:13 <TrueBrain> yeah .. "optimisation" 12:54:17 <TrueBrain> why can you disable that anyway? :P 12:54:19 <TrueBrain> PF has too many settings 12:54:22 <glx> except ships currently always disable optimisations 12:58:29 <TrueBrain> okay ..... I think I can request for the NS record of openttd.org to be changed ... I did my best to validate everything .. 12:58:32 <TrueBrain> things might break :P 13:00:53 <TrueBrain> owh, Cloudflare support CNAME flattening 13:01:06 <TrueBrain> but only for the Pro plan, which is 20 dollar a month 13:01:21 <TrueBrain> that might be well worth the money, for the other goodies that gives 13:01:29 <TrueBrain> but for now .. lets first see what happens if we switch NS :) 13:05:58 <Samu> discrepancy in comment, bits 5..9 https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/road_gui.cpp#L153 13:06:09 <Samu> bits 5..10 https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/road_gui.cpp#L179 13:06:17 <Samu> which one is the right comment? 13:08:21 <nielsm> neither of them uses the roadtype value in p2 though 13:10:04 <Samu> it is passed through 13:10:31 <nielsm> I don't see the road type in either function, where do you see it? 13:10:59 <Samu> it is in p2 already 13:11:37 <Samu> sec 13:12:10 <Samu> it's done here https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/road_gui.cpp#L703 13:12:20 <nielsm> but either way 13:12:33 <Samu> ops 697 my ba 13:12:43 <nielsm> RoadType has 63 valid values, that makes it a 6 bit value 13:12:43 <Samu> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/road_gui.cpp#L697 13:13:40 <nielsm> road_type.h line 30 you can see the MakeEnumPropsT final template argument is 6, that's the number of bits 13:14:32 <nielsm> EnumPropsT<RoadType>::num_bits is a constant with the value 6, from that declaration 13:14:48 <nielsm> if you allocate anything other than 6 bits for it it's a bug 13:15:27 <nielsm> so here's your homework, which of 5..9 or 5..10 is correct when 6 allocated bits is the only correct option? 13:15:53 <Samu> 5..10 13:16:24 <nielsm> yes 13:16:29 <Samu> _cur_roadtype << 5 13:16:37 <nielsm> that shifts it to position 5 13:17:25 <Samu> 63 then 13:17:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #9576: Revert 7ca1793: Using Trackdir keyed node is not required, Exitdir keyed node still have the correct trackdir https://git.io/JzyhE 13:17:51 <Samu> or 62, because 63 is for invalid road type 13:18:15 <Samu> but it starts counting from 0, so it's 63 13:19:51 <TrueBrain> I wonder if peter1138 remembers why he added it in the first place :D If he found scenarios that it broke etc 13:20:02 <glx> good question 13:20:05 <nielsm> there are 64 possible RoadType values, numbered 0 to 63, and the last value is reserved to mean "invalid" 13:20:06 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 13:20:19 <nielsm> so 63 valid values numbered 0..62 13:20:28 <TrueBrain> but it is 18 months ago .. personally I wouldn't remember any of it :P 13:21:02 <glx> maybe it was just a misunderstanding of how ypaf works 13:21:11 <Samu> RoadType rt = Extract<RoadType, 5, 6>(p2); 13:21:29 <peter1138> There's a comment but I don't know what it means... 13:21:32 <TrueBrain> well, you are now our YAPF expert, so you have that going for you :) 13:21:45 <Samu> that reads 6 bits, so everything is right in code, no bugs 13:21:54 *** roadt_ has quit IRC 13:23:02 <glx> drawpf helped me a lot to see how things work 13:24:00 <glx> without visual hints it's way harder I think 13:24:18 <peter1138> IIRC it solved some issue, but I don't know what that issue was. 13:24:33 <TrueBrain> merge and find out again when someone runs into it? 13:24:57 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 13:27:48 <glx> https://imgur.com/KUV6cYu <-- I'll need to make docking tiles visible to see if it's possible to solve this can't reach issue 13:28:06 <glx> maybe we need more docking tiles around docks 13:28:33 <peter1138> TrueBrain, also you missed a year, 30 months rather than 18 :-) 13:28:43 <TrueBrain> peter1138: oops 13:28:50 <peter1138> glx, it's easy to do, there is code specifically to limit it so that old behaviour was maintained. 13:28:55 <TrueBrain> 2020 didn't happen, right? 13:29:14 <peter1138> TrueBrain, pretty much! 13:31:35 <peter1138> glx, basically you can adjust IsValidDockingDirectionForDock() and put all DIAGDIR combos for both the two lines that are not zeros. 13:32:58 <TrueBrain> and now we wait for orudge to change NS servers .. pam pam pammmmmmmmmmm :D 13:33:08 <TrueBrain> I so hate changing these kind of things .. 13:33:48 <peter1138> Or change it 'return gfx >= GFX_DOCK_BASE_WATER_PART;' if we think it'd never be wanted to be set via NewGRF. 13:34:18 *** roadt has joined #openttd 13:39:37 <Samu> ais and human players can now build rail waypoints, rail stations, newgrf rail stations, road stops and docks! 13:39:43 <Samu> missing airports yet 13:40:24 <Samu> and then i have to find out if there are more obscure Commands that store StationIDs in p1/p2 13:44:08 *** roadt has quit IRC 13:44:20 *** roadt has joined #openttd 13:56:37 *** _aD has joined #openttd 14:06:20 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 14:06:34 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 14:09:50 <Samu> ais can't chose airport layout 14:09:53 <Samu> interesting 14:10:21 <glx> peter1138: I can see many tests relying on GFX_DOCK_BASE_WATER_PART, so if newgrf come in play at some point IsValidDockingDirectionForDock() would not be the only impacted function 14:11:15 <nielsm> can we do something about the commands p1/p2 bitpacking some time soon? 14:11:53 <nielsm> at least wrap it in some way so you don't have to keep track of the packing everywhere, but better just change the protocol so there's more data available in general 14:12:10 <glx> like a big union ? 14:14:59 <nielsm> if p1/p2 is unavoidable for now, some kind of CommandData class wrapping all the data (including also tile and string) and with accessor functions 14:15:27 <nielsm> so you'd cmd.SetRoadType(x); cmd.GetRoadType(); 14:15:30 <glx> oh no, I need to do savegame conversion for the new possible docking tiles 14:17:41 <TrueBrain> it wouldn't surprise me if Rubidium already had some ideas about this :P 14:19:32 <TrueBrain> okay, NS is changed for openttd.org (tnx orudge ) .. now we wait to see what breaks :D 14:25:54 *** tokai has joined #openttd 14:25:55 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 14:27:05 *** michi_cc has quit IRC 14:27:55 *** michi_cc has joined #openttd 14:27:55 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v michi_cc 14:32:46 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 14:35:33 <Samu> Order(packed) is here to ruin my day 14:37:04 <Samu> unless i make it int64 or uint64 14:37:21 <Samu> it's uint32 atm 14:39:43 <Samu> needs to pack more stuff 14:40:44 <Samu> CmdInsertOrder 14:40:53 <Samu> uses p2 for a packed Order 14:41:42 <Samu> it includes DestinationID, which is now increased in size 14:41:43 <glx> lol depots are valid docking tiles 14:41:56 <Samu> they can be 14:42:06 <Samu> if there's a dock 14:42:54 <glx> but there can be the depot wall blocking access to the dock 14:43:25 <nielsm> water tiles are a total mess 14:46:05 *** virtualrandomnumber has joined #openttd 14:46:05 <glx> ok just say there are doors in the wall so the ship can be loaded inside the depot 14:48:30 <glx> oh I know why not all tiles around the dock are allowed as docking tiles, it's because of the visual effect, there's a huge gap between dock and ship on dock sides 14:52:15 <TrueBrain> okay .. so Cloudflare is trying to be a pain in the ass .. they provision a certificate for you, which only works for a single subdomain 14:52:26 <TrueBrain> so wiki.openttd.org would work, but to test it out, I of course try wiki.staging.openttd.org 14:52:32 <TrueBrain> they do not provision a valid certificate for that domain 14:52:36 <TrueBrain> wtf is this for nonsense .. 14:52:43 <TrueBrain> to fix it, we have to pay 10 euro a month 14:53:24 <TrueBrain> guess we should get an openttd-staging.org :P 14:53:25 <glx> weird, the certificate is not valid for all openttd.org subdomains ? 14:53:34 <TrueBrain> not for subdomains of subdomains 14:54:09 <glx> silly 14:54:25 <TrueBrain> especially as they provision letsencrypt certificates 14:54:39 *** Strom has quit IRC 14:55:03 <michi_cc> Or it needs to be wiki-staging.openttd.org 14:55:21 <TrueBrain> yeah .. but that makes a lot of things a lot more annoying too :P 14:55:52 <TrueBrain> such silly limitations make things so much more difficult .. ugh 14:56:23 *** Strom has joined #openttd 15:01:59 *** Speeder has joined #openttd 15:03:35 <TrueBrain> meh, changing wiki.staging to wiki-staging is no fun on AWS .. as changing a certificate is not something that is made easy via CDK :) 15:07:45 *** Speeder__ has quit IRC 15:10:54 <TrueBrain> openttd-dev.org? Hmm 15:11:32 <TrueBrain> if only I could take the lessons learnt from CDK and AWS, and do it all over again from scratch .... :P 15:11:37 *** michi_cc_ has joined #openttd 15:11:53 *** Beer has quit IRC 15:12:36 *** michi_cc has quit IRC 15:13:02 *** michi_cc_ is now known as michi_cc 15:21:53 <Samu> found another wrong comment 15:22:52 <Samu> says bits 24-31 https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/order_cmd.cpp#L731 15:23:06 <Samu> gets bits 20-27 instead https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/order_cmd.cpp#L741 15:24:01 *** gelignite has quit IRC 15:26:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep opened pull request #9577: Multi-tile depots https://git.io/JzSuK 15:27:57 *** virtualrandomnumber has quit IRC 15:28:43 <glx> hmm yeah CommandData (and subclassing) with some kind of serialisation (can use the same format as now, but hidden) could be a nice thing 15:28:59 <glx> but it's a huge codechange :) 15:29:04 <nielsm> it'd be big 15:29:18 <nielsm> but it'd be for the better 15:29:23 <TrueBrain> ugh, I was like: lets email Cloudflare, see if they can help in any other way. Ticket is auto-closed with: DNS issue, see here. And that is it. 15:29:44 <TrueBrain> I understand they don't have that much time for people on Free plans, so it is not a complaint, but damn, this is not made easy :P 15:30:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #9578: Change: Allow all tiles around docks to be docking tiles https://git.io/JzSzc 15:33:49 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 15:57:11 *** michi_cc has quit IRC 16:03:36 *** michi_cc has joined #openttd 16:03:36 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v michi_cc 16:03:55 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 16:05:51 <Samu> Order new_order(p2 | ((uint64)GB(p1, 28, 4) << 32)); 16:05:55 <Samu> gymnastics! 16:06:35 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 16:23:28 <michi_cc> Is there any reason (regarding commands send over the network) why the data needs to be tightly packed, i.e. is there some significant advantage for sending for example bools as a single bit (except a slightly higher needed data rate)? 16:24:43 <michi_cc> Serialisation command data only with byte granularity would probably to get away with a lot less code gymnastics. 16:24:58 <nielsm> I doubt it... 16:25:25 <nielsm> it's not like we're bandwidth limited by dialup modems any longer 16:25:44 <TrueBrain> but but but 16:25:46 <TrueBrain> 700 bytes/sec! 16:25:53 <michi_cc> Especially as the command rate is limited by human brains :) 16:26:05 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 16:27:43 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 16:27:48 <glx> scripts could fire many commands, but we limit them to be fair with humans 16:32:00 <Samu> tada! humans and ais may now insert orders to stations with index over 65535 16:32:19 <Samu> CMD_INSERT_ORDER exhausted all of p1 and p2 16:32:34 <Samu> lucky that there was still 4 bits free 16:32:51 *** blindvt has quit IRC 16:34:04 <peter1138> I started doing command data stuff but gave up quickly :p 16:34:23 <peter1138> And someone is bound to complain if the protocol changes ;-) 16:34:40 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 16:34:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #9576: Revert 7ca1793: Using Trackdir keyed node is not required, Exitdir keyed node still have the correct trackdir https://git.io/JzSPH 16:35:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #9578: Change: Allow all tiles around docks to be docking tiles https://git.io/JzSPN 16:36:04 <TrueBrain> oof, savegame bump .. hmm .. can we backport that :P 16:36:16 <glx> I skiped the bump 16:36:29 <glx> forced conversion up to current version 16:36:44 <TrueBrain> is that wise? 16:37:00 <glx> minor extra loading times 16:37:14 <TrueBrain> why not bump the savegame, and we just backport that? 16:37:39 <TrueBrain> these kind of decisions tend to hunt us :P 16:38:10 <glx> well we are still in RC, so a bump may not hurt to much 16:38:27 <TrueBrain> the bump is more that the administration for it can be annoying 16:38:32 <TrueBrain> but we will survive ;) 16:38:44 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 16:38:57 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 16:39:35 <michi_cc> Right now backporting a bump is still painless, it only gets 'tricky' if you want to backport a later bump without some other bump in-between. 16:40:02 <peter1138> 15:10 <+glx> peter1138: I can see many tests relying on GFX_DOCK_BASE_WATER_PART, so if newgrf come in play at some point -- yeah, I have a patch for that ;-) 16:40:12 <glx> haha 16:40:16 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 16:41:00 <peter1138> and of course, the newgrf side just extends that array to be a property of dockspecs, so that particular function doesn't change much. 16:41:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #9576: Revert 7ca1793: Using Trackdir keyed node is not required, Exitdir keyed node still have the correct trackdir https://git.io/JzyhE 16:43:59 <peter1138> Ah #9578 removes it all. Shame. 16:44:26 <TrueBrain> if you have a better suggestion :) 16:44:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg opened issue #9579: Improperly assigned objects construction costs and HQ relocation https://git.io/JzS1Q 16:44:59 <glx> anyway, docking tiles already had a forced (and sometimes uneeded) conversion for some savegame version, it's just a new similar occurence 16:45:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain dismissed a review for pull request #9578: Change: Allow all tiles around docks to be docking tiles https://git.io/JzSPN 16:46:09 <TrueBrain> I cannot believe I really thought it was a bump, I am really a shitty reviewer :P 16:46:28 <glx> peter1138: yeah it was simpler to remove the array for current state of code 16:47:02 <peter1138> More lines-of-code change though! ;) 16:47:51 <TrueBrain> Export Live-Staging-Wiki:ExportsOutputRefWikiService69FF224449441610 cannot be updated as it is in use by Live-Staging-Wiki-Policy and Live-Staging-WikiReload 16:47:56 <TrueBrain> I am so done with Cloudformation .. 16:48:07 <TrueBrain> any form of dependency is just ....... ugh 16:49:14 <glx> but I kept the now unused DiagDir parameter ;) 16:49:20 <peter1138> And removing it is not bad, if I ever get back to NewGRF docks that can reintroduce it. 16:49:53 <peter1138> Better to simplify and have less code, not leave stuff lying around in case it might be used in future. 16:51:51 *** lehu has joined #openttd 17:01:23 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #9578: Change: Allow all tiles around docks to be docking tiles https://git.io/JzSzc 17:02:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9578: Change: Allow all tiles around docks to be docking tiles https://git.io/JzSS1 17:03:11 <glx> hmm there used to be a "bump" label 17:03:27 <TrueBrain> it wasn't used correctly, so I removed it :P 17:03:50 <TrueBrain> I removed many labels .. >:D 17:04:03 <glx> there are still too much :) 17:04:06 <TrueBrain> yup 17:04:18 <TrueBrain> and people tend to randomly put labels on stuff, without it actually helping anything :D 17:04:34 <TrueBrain> (I am one of those people :P) 17:04:39 <TrueBrain> I want "private labels" :D 17:07:35 *** lehu has quit IRC 17:08:39 <Samu> just finished looking at all commands, think my job is done! 17:09:12 <Samu> 32 files changed, just for increasing StationID pool 17:09:47 <Samu> and im not yet sure if I got all that needs change 17:11:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #9578: Change: Allow all tiles around docks to be docking tiles https://git.io/JzSzc 17:11:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #9578: Change: Allow all tiles around docks to be docking tiles https://git.io/JzSH3 17:12:27 <glx> oh and indeed, we already did a bump between 1.11.0-RC1 and 1.11 17:12:51 <TrueBrain> yeah .. it happens :P 17:12:53 <Samu> oh, i've yet to look at afterload.cpp 17:13:01 <Samu> the non _sl.cpp file 17:17:33 <TrueBrain> owh, lol, our wiki explicitly doesn't cache normal pages 17:17:35 <TrueBrain> only images etc 17:17:36 <TrueBrain> but only for 5 minutes 17:17:41 <TrueBrain> guess that could use a bit of tuning too 17:18:25 <TrueBrain> https://wiki-staging.openttd.org/en/ <- otherwise seems to work fine (now cached by Cloudflare) 17:18:34 <TrueBrain> and no, you cannot login there, as that logs you in on wiki.staging.openttd.org 17:21:18 <glx> https://wiki-staging.openttd.org/en/javascript <-- doesn't seem to work ;) 17:23:35 <glx> ah and I just noticed alignment is off in "view source" mode 17:24:51 <TrueBrain> what doesn't seem to work? 17:25:19 <glx> "click me" does nothing 17:25:28 <Samu> wow this one was so simple https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/84961034e481859d7266545d4ce0deb6b3ea2911 17:25:45 <TrueBrain> glx: yeah, no shit :P 17:25:53 <TrueBrain> if that worked, you should be worried :D 17:31:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #9578: Change: Allow all tiles around docks to be docking tiles https://git.io/JzSzc 17:33:09 <TrueBrain> I am so happy with AWS from time to time 17:33:23 <TrueBrain> yesterday, because of Hacker News etc, the load on the www spikes from ~1000 every 5 minutes 17:33:26 <TrueBrain> to over 10k 17:34:29 <TrueBrain> @calc 10000 / 5/ 60 17:34:29 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 33.333333333333336 17:34:34 <TrueBrain> lol 17:35:20 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 17:35:20 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 17:38:57 <TrueBrain> right, lets just see what happens if we enable Cloudflare on wiki.openttd.org .. it all seems to work as expected, so .. 17:38:58 <TrueBrain> YOLO! 17:40:01 <peter1138> You just lose IP address information, don't you? (Unless it's more than a basic account...) 17:40:33 <TrueBrain> how do you mean? 17:40:34 <Samu> check this out, it's huge https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/compare/master...SamuXarick:increase-max-number-of-stations?expand=1 17:40:53 <TrueBrain> in access logs etc? 17:41:08 <peter1138> Yeah, all looks like it comes from CF. 17:41:24 <TrueBrain> yup; but we don't process access logs anyway :) 17:41:27 <peter1138> (Not necessarily a problem) 17:42:02 <TrueBrain> ideally I would like cloudflare to cache pages if the last-modified isn't changed, but I am not sure that is possible :D 17:42:16 *** tokai has quit IRC 17:47:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Castle4079King6023 opened issue #9580: [Bug]: Path signals are the only available signals to build https://git.io/JzSFV 17:47:18 <glx> lol 17:49:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #9580: [Bug]: Path signals are the only available signals to build https://git.io/JzSFV 17:49:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh closed issue #9580: [Bug]: Path signals are the only available signals to build https://git.io/JzSFV 17:49:50 <TrueBrain> haha, I was doing the same thing nielsm , lol :D 17:49:58 <TrueBrain> my screenshot was more pretty, as it had paint-draw-red-circle on it :P 17:50:27 <Samu> that was a bit harsh 17:51:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #9580: [Bug]: Path signals are the only available signals to build https://git.io/JzSFV 17:55:14 <peter1138> Better would've been to just completely remove non-path signals 17:55:38 <TrueBrain> you do that, let me find a bunker to shelter in :P 17:55:57 <TrueBrain> it is a sword some people are willing to die on :D 17:56:17 <glx> and they are vocal 17:56:57 <TrueBrain> right, images seem to cache as expected 17:57:03 <TrueBrain> the HTML files .. not so much 17:57:05 <TrueBrain> which is a bad sad :P 17:59:08 <TrueBrain> if I enable HTML files, it caches them for 2 hours, even if they change 17:59:11 <TrueBrain> that might not be ideal 18:01:50 *** Flygon has quit IRC 18:04:22 <peter1138> dpkg: warning: downgrading openttd from 12.0-beta2 to 12.0-RC1 18:04:33 <peter1138> Thanks dpkg :P 18:06:14 <TrueBrain> :D 18:06:22 <TrueBrain> has been an issue for as long as we have debian packages :P 18:06:36 <TrueBrain> hmm, okay, we send "cache-control: private, must-revalidate, max-age=0" 18:06:38 <LordAro> R < b 18:06:41 <TrueBrain> the "private" is a problem for Cloudflare 18:07:21 <TrueBrain> and we do this as you could be logged in or not 18:07:59 <nielsm> is "RC1" a downgrade from "beta2" because R has a lower ASCII value than b ? 18:11:35 <TrueBrain> right, lets see how much Cloudflare caches, and if that is an amount worth talking about 18:12:45 <andythenorth_> oh steam lol 18:12:57 <andythenorth_> not convinced TTD is better for single player than OpenTTD 18:13:04 <andythenorth_> but it's a big world, room for many opinions 18:13:36 <peter1138> heh 18:20:15 <TrueBrain> seems for www.openttd.org I should hadd a cache-control header, but after that we can route it via Cloudflare too I think 18:20:23 <TrueBrain> but lets first give it a week or so for the wiki, see if it makes a difference 18:20:44 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 18:20:46 <TrueBrain> so far on the AWS side not much difference is seen, but it can still be old DNS etc 18:23:06 *** tokai has joined #openttd 18:23:06 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 18:28:34 <TrueBrain> 25 of the 65 languages are 100% done 18:28:49 <TrueBrain> my post in the Translators Team, it seems every reply pokes all the other translators again 18:28:57 <TrueBrain> that seems to work really well :P 18:29:19 <TrueBrain> also, I guess, it means several people left :P 18:30:06 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 18:30:22 <TrueBrain> 20 languages have 0 translators 18:30:34 <LordAro> TrueBrain: self-maintaining lists! 18:30:38 <LordAro> even better 18:33:26 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/orgs/OpenTTD/teams/translators/discussions/10 <- for who don't know what I am talking about 18:40:13 <TrueBrain> normally we push 50 MB per 5 minutes .. yesterday it reached 380 MB per 5 minutes :D 18:40:18 <TrueBrain> the slashdot effect .. its fun 18:40:40 <TrueBrain> CPU-wise, nothing happened 18:40:41 <TrueBrain> lol 18:41:51 <TrueBrain> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/337701432230805505/891756382414602320/unknown.png 18:41:55 <TrueBrain> to put it in an image :P 18:42:45 <LordAro> nice 18:45:10 <LordAro> TrueBrain: also, i am helping. 18:45:27 <TrueBrain> helping with what? :) 18:46:38 <LordAro> translators 18:47:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/Jz9vu 18:47:40 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 18:47:49 <TrueBrain> how is that helping? :P 18:48:03 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/7aacb2ed8ea0842310f57739b3550b4ea304da9c <- wow .. 18:48:34 <TrueBrain> Showing with 771 additions and 106 deletions. 18:49:28 <Samu> who wants to test build more than 64000 stations? 18:49:44 <Samu> or rather 65535 18:50:07 <Samu> or review my code 18:50:13 <Samu> not sure how to ask 18:50:28 <TrueBrain> I think we already told you it has 0% chance of being accepted into master 18:50:49 <TrueBrain> so a review might not be the best use of our time :) 18:51:24 <Samu> I see :( 18:51:54 <Samu> was trying to figure out if I missed something 18:53:31 <andythenorth_> what is the limit in vanilla? 18:53:42 <Samu> 64000 18:53:58 <andythenorth_> and the increased limit is 65535? 18:54:19 <Samu> @calc 0xFF000 18:54:19 <DorpsGek> Samu: 1044480 18:54:23 <Samu> it's that 18:56:35 <FLHerne> 64k isn't an impossible number of stations to build on a 4096^2 map 18:56:57 <FLHerne> it's probably an unreasonable one though 18:57:10 <FLHerne> Are ship buoys 'stations'? 18:57:15 <Samu> yes 18:57:17 <FLHerne> I assume waypoints are 18:57:19 <Samu> they are 18:57:38 <Samu> that's what triggered me to increase this limit 18:57:40 *** J0anJosep has joined #openttd 18:57:52 <Samu> I couldn't max 5000 ships with 15 AIs 18:58:11 <FLHerne> ok, so you only need 16 columns of a waypoint every tile from one end of the map to the other 18:59:37 <Samu> if anyone dares to look/test/review, here it is https://github.com/SamuXarick/OpenTTD/commit/1a1095253c2687d2a7765299e8ecb12f9773cf1d 19:00:43 <TrueBrain> 20MB out of the 100MB of wiki data going to Cloudflare came from Cloudflare's cache .. that is not great :P 19:00:52 <TrueBrain> but I guess I should give it some more time :) 19:01:42 <TrueBrain> 50% of the served files were pngs 19:01:52 <TrueBrain> and 24% empty pages (I guess it means 304s) 19:01:53 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh started discussion #9581: Accessibility for motion-impaired users https://git.io/Jz9Jg 19:04:59 <nielsm> does cloudflare know that the pages are entirely static content? 19:10:26 <andythenorth_> how cold are the caches? 19:10:39 <andythenorth_> does cloudflare have a discovery crawler, or does it wait for requests? 19:11:04 <andythenorth_> or is only seeing 20MB as cacheable? 19:11:19 <FLHerne> Samu: You should definitely add a helper function rather than copy-pasting those horrible expressions all over the place 19:11:38 <FLHerne> but looking at this, I agree there's no way this is being accepted 19:12:23 <TrueBrain> nielsm: it listens to the cache-control, so it is up to us 19:12:48 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: no, 20% came from cache, so possibly it needs to warm up more :) 19:13:08 <FLHerne> it adds a ton of complexity, uses up map bits, and doubles the memory usage of order lists for the sake of raising a limit that will never be hit in any conceivable human gameplay 19:15:05 <Samu> im running a 4k map, memory usage is about 1.3 GB, and it's running 14 AIs too 19:15:12 <TrueBrain> But I also think I should move logged in users to another URL or something.. allows caching HTML better :) 19:15:47 <andythenorth_> `/admin` 19:15:59 <andythenorth_> should I put a crawler over the site to warm up caches :P 19:16:03 <andythenorth_> maybe not 19:16:38 <TrueBrain> :p 19:17:37 <Samu> how do I check the memory usage difference? 19:18:24 <nielsm> with a spreadsheet 19:18:35 <nielsm> (don't measure, calculate) 19:19:09 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 19:19:52 <glx> with the recent ship pf change less buoys should be needed 19:20:41 <glx> and AI can learn to reuse buoys, ShipAI is silly with buoys 19:20:54 <Samu> but how did he figure it out so quickly that the memory usage would be doubled? 19:23:28 <J0anJosep> Hi! I know that PR9577 still has flaws and it is a really big PR, but I would like to have some opinions about functionality and coding. 19:23:36 <J0anJosep> I will change it from "draft" to "ready for review", although it really isn't. But I really need somebody to check it. 19:23:51 <glx> main issue I have is it's huge :) 19:23:56 <J0anJosep> Is it ok to change the "draft" state in this case? 19:24:34 <J0anJosep> +glx: I know. I could break it into smaller PR, but then the purpose of the changes is not clear 19:25:00 <glx> yeah sometimes it's not possible to split 19:25:51 <Samu> FLHerne, a helper function for the p1 and p2 parameters? 19:26:49 <Samu> something similar to Order::Pack()? 19:28:35 <FLHerne> Yes 19:28:35 <Samu> btw, I had to increase DestinationID from uint16 to uint32, but by doing so, inadvertedly had to increase Order:Pack from uint32 to uint64, though I only need 36 bits 19:29:21 <Samu> it's not doubled 19:30:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #9577: Feature: Multi-tile depots https://git.io/Jz9IH 19:30:17 <J0anJosep> Well, if need be, I could make smaller PRs from #9577. Anyway, first I would need to know if there is any change of that feature being merged and then I could continue working on it. 19:31:55 <FLHerne> It is doubled 19:32:12 <FLHerne> even if most of the doubling is waste 19:32:32 <FLHerne> J0anJosep: I really hope there is, I love that feature 19:33:26 <FLHerne> nielsm: I believe your summary is wrong ;-) 19:34:00 <FLHerne> it does require that depots be long enough for their trains, unless I missed a fairly recent change 19:34:36 <nielsm> all the screenshots show single-tile depots holding length 4 trains at least 19:34:38 <FLHerne> magic one-tile depots excluded from that 19:34:58 <nielsm> well if the description text says that I missed it 19:35:15 <TrueBrain> Be careful this is a new PR :) 19:35:17 <FLHerne> oh, this is the wrong multi-tile depot PR 19:35:19 <FLHerne> sorry 19:36:00 <FLHerne> I meant https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8480 "Feature: Extended depots", which is also by J0anJosep 19:36:08 <TrueBrain> I had to look twice too to figure that out :) 19:36:27 <glx> yes #8480 is #9574 + extra stuff :) 19:36:47 <glx> euh #9577 19:37:08 *** EER has quit IRC 19:39:13 <Samu> my dear 14x AIs have done it! They surpassed the 65535 barrier! https://i.imgur.com/UPoXu0G.png 19:40:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #9577: Feature: Multi-tile depots https://git.io/Jz9tf 19:41:55 <FLHerne> still +1 19:42:16 <FLHerne> If people don't like the settings, just enable them both by default and hide/remove them, IMO 19:42:44 <FLHerne> "how can I depot-replace rail with maglev" is one of those perennial forum questions 19:43:07 <FLHerne> and anyone who doesn't want to can just...not 19:43:52 <glx> yeah it's a recurent question, conversion of a train fleet to new rail type 19:43:53 <FLHerne> I don't see how it gains any significant advantage in multiplayer 19:44:09 *** gelignite has quit IRC 19:44:21 <FLHerne> since rebuilding an existing network is economically stupid anyway 19:44:23 <J0anJosep> FLHerne: Yes, #9577 is different from #8480. In fact, #9577 is the first part of #8480. But splitting it, it will make things easier for everyone. 19:44:40 <FLHerne> J0anJosep: I understand now, just didn't realise initially 19:46:18 <glx> I guess "teleporting" requires manual action, not really pratical to abuse for human player (AIs will do it more easily) 19:46:56 <J0anJosep> #8480 had no chance in getting reviewed with 75 commits. So I have to split it. Also, splitting it, it will be easier to review and find bugs. 19:48:26 <FLHerne> glx: also, depot entry speed is really low 19:49:46 <glx> I didn't really read the code, but as it's stated you can't know where an aircraft will be when building on an airport with multiple depots, is it the same for trains ? 19:50:07 <J0anJosep> FLHerne: Speed can prevent the exploit in many cases, but even with it, moving wagons from one tile to another at no cost is an explotation. 19:50:52 <FLHerne> Yeah, it's whether the benefit is enough to make any difference 19:51:38 <FLHerne> I was imagining a chain of pairs of depots at maximum spread, where the train goes into one and leaves the other 19:52:16 <FLHerne> but you're crawling in and out at 38mph or something, and you'd need an AI to do it on any scale, and I think also to keep reversing the train replacement 19:52:31 <nielsm> like, I imagine sending a train into the depot at the bottom of a hill, and then pulling it out the depot 6 tiles up 19:52:35 <J0anJosep> +glx: It is the same for trains. But newly built trains are always built in the northern compatible depot tile. I am not sure if it is the northern compatible tile, or some other... but it is deterministic. 19:53:26 <glx> ok so it can be tricky and require extra steps before starting the train 19:53:34 <FLHerne> nielsm: sure, but you just stick like six engines on that train and it drives straight up the 6-tile slope at 150mph :p 19:53:46 <FLHerne> multiplayer servers hurt my eyeballs 19:56:49 <nielsm> FLHerne: I'm also thinking about early game where trains are weak and money is scarce 19:58:12 <glx> teleporting would be more effective with ships, they are slower than trains 19:59:28 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 20:00:28 <J0anJosep> +glx: ships cannot teleport; road vehicles only teleport if replacement has a different road type and is not compatible with current tile. 20:00:43 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 20:01:09 <Samu> found issues, time to fix stuff 20:02:55 <andythenorth_> does the reviewing atomic commits thing really make it better? 20:03:17 <andythenorth_> TL;DR afaict all code review sucks, and isn't a great defence against future selves 20:04:51 <glx> reviewing commits one by one is simpler than the full stack of changes, but there's a possible downside: a later commit can change everything :) 20:05:46 <nielsm> still the state should make sense at any place 20:06:10 <nielsm> it's okay to have essentially dead code around that's intended to get used later, but not broken parts 20:06:13 <andythenorth_> genuine questions btw 20:06:27 <andythenorth_> I have read a lot about the pros and cons of TDD 20:06:38 <andythenorth_> but I've never found much interesting stuff to read about code review 20:07:13 <glx> anyway if a later commit rewrites a previous commit it's time to rebase things ;) 20:07:19 <nielsm> code review is perhaps more about readability and maintainability of the code than about correctness 20:10:04 <andythenorth_> I have seen a lot of them done in the last 15 years, but I couldn't say what makes a good one 20:10:07 <andythenorth_> only what makes a bad one 20:10:16 <andythenorth_> this is a live question in my life currently :P 20:11:01 <glx> hey sometimes we spot big mistakes (not always) 20:11:49 <andythenorth_> I don't just mean here 20:11:50 <andythenorth_> :) 20:11:55 <andythenorth_> things they tend towards: 20:12:02 <andythenorth_> - minor formatting changes 20:12:25 <andythenorth_> - nitpicks and matters of taste about formatting, implementation, and library or module or method choices 20:12:32 <andythenorth_> things they don't seem to prevent 20:12:35 <andythenorth_> - security holes 20:12:40 <andythenorth_> - bad UX 20:12:48 <andythenorth_> - race conditions in prod 20:13:10 <andythenorth_> things they don't seem to do as well they should 20:13:14 <andythenorth_> - peer learning 20:13:22 <andythenorth_> - asking if the design is good 20:13:35 <andythenorth_> - not accidentally making people rewrite things that have no real gain 20:13:49 <glx> bad UX is a usual thing with devs I guess, most hate doing UX stuff 20:13:58 <andythenorth_> most engineers can learn UX though 20:14:02 <andythenorth_> not all 20:14:04 <andythenorth_> but most 20:14:25 <andythenorth_> it's just integrity of concepts 20:14:46 <andythenorth_> are things well named, and is it clear what are primary entities, and what are secondary or tertiary 20:14:59 <andythenorth_> also UX is speed 20:15:10 <andythenorth_> people forgive some bad designs if it works fast 20:15:21 <andythenorth_> the rest is just flow 20:16:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] simply-peachy opened issue #9582: [Crash]: Switching from fullscreen https://git.io/Jz9YQ 20:19:35 <glx> oh that maybe because asserts are disabled 20:25:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #9582: [Crash]: Switching from fullscreen https://git.io/Jz9YQ 20:27:32 <glx> if I understand the trace in the crashlog I can only see one place in AddDirtyBlock() that could trigger a segfault 20:27:39 <nielsm> hmm random idea, add a list_paths console command that lists all search paths the game currently has for the various categories 20:27:57 <nielsm> it should probably only work on local console, not remote console 20:30:20 <LordAro> nielsm: sounds useful 20:34:34 <Samu> weird 20:34:46 <Samu> found a problem 20:35:16 <Samu> when I do this 1048575 << 12 I get 4 294 963 200, correct 20:35:48 <Samu> no wait, my bad 20:35:52 <Samu> gonna start again 20:36:55 <Samu> nevermind, visual studio is warning me about shift issues 20:40:15 *** J0anJosep has quit IRC 20:40:34 <glx> ok I tried a silly thing with multi-tile depot, I joint 2 depots on a different networks, not a good idea 20:41:18 <Samu> i figured it out, i have to (uint64)1048575 << 12 20:53:52 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 20:53:52 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 20:57:26 <nielsm> made something: https://0x0.st/-YVB.png 20:57:46 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:00:50 *** tokai has quit IRC 21:03:08 <TrueBrain> Maybe also add something that lists the search path entries 21:03:35 <TrueBrain> And maybe call is lists_dirs or something.. paths can be a bit confusing with PF paths and patch etc 21:04:00 <nielsm> I went with paths to avoid the war of "dirs" versus "folders" 21:04:08 <TrueBrain> Lol 21:04:11 <Samu> had to cast them to (uin64) https://github.com/SamuXarick/OpenTTD/commit/59c47145cc3b9449b28d06d6d50ed2d80ba18064#diff-380d4603b56ad2da06966f31208648ab85be2f6729594c2b703482e3ce66ac97R199 21:04:25 <TrueBrain> We already have 'dir' 21:05:21 <Samu> the AIs were unable to insert orders above stationid 65535, stuff was being truncated 21:05:29 <Samu> time to rerun the AIs 21:06:47 <Samu> not sure if this->type also needs it, i guess not, visual studio didn't complain 21:15:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh opened pull request #9583: Add: Console command to list search directories for various things https://git.io/Jz9Z9 21:18:49 <Samu> gotta sleep, cyas 21:20:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9583: Add: Console command to list search directories for various things https://git.io/Jz9nO 21:26:23 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #9583: Add: Console command to list search directories for various things https://git.io/Jz9na 21:26:56 *** Samu has quit IRC 21:27:16 <TrueBrain> Did not expect that to be an enum :p 21:29:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #9583: Add: Console command to list search directories for various things https://git.io/Jz9Z9 21:31:18 <TrueBrain> Guess I should complain sentences end with a dot, but *shrug* :p 21:32:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #9583: Add: Console command to list search directories for various things https://git.io/Jz9np 21:39:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #9583: Add: Console command to list search directories for various things https://git.io/Jz9Z9 22:07:02 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 22:09:51 *** nielsm has quit IRC 22:37:36 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:45:53 *** Progman has quit IRC 23:06:31 *** Etua has joined #openttd 23:25:54 *** Etua has quit IRC