Log for on 2nd July 2013:
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17:20:33  * Rubidium ponders what to do with FS#5530; he got a point, though... is it possible to check that 'early' or do we need to have the game already started?
17:21:14  <Rubidium> or can we apply the NewGRFs in some way to test stuff (doubt it)?
17:21:50  <Rubidium> hmm, what about Ctrl+Click from the main menu... that'd skip that window all together
17:22:10  <Rubidium> so a 'simple' error message at the begin of the game?
17:22:36  <Rubidium> and/or limit/clamp the start date if no NewGRFs are chosen?
17:22:42  <planetmaker> I think it needs what frosch123 calls "NewGRF utopia". A kind of sandbox to check availability of stuff in the starting year
17:23:01  <frosch123> Rubidium: what is easy achievable is checking on game start and poping up a warning
17:23:10  <planetmaker> With a dialogue to list the problems... and ask "proceed ? y/n"
17:23:14  <frosch123> if cargo is not transportable with certain vehicle types
17:23:34  <frosch123> because game start will be a lot harder, because all our newgrf stuff is in global variables and pools
17:24:16  <frosch123> you might also be able to cheat something with new game from the main menu
17:24:21  <frosch123> but not with new game from ingamer
17:26:47  <frosch123> <- contains a list of things which might be nice to check on game start
17:27:14  <planetmaker> it's a page I like to refer to :-)
17:31:08  <Rubidium> that's roughly what I feared already
17:31:46  <frosch123> well, displaying the info on game start might a beginning
17:32:02  <frosch123> though we might need to change the dates of the default helicopter
17:32:18  <frosch123> to avoid some wanring abour helis not available in future :)=
17:32:29  <planetmaker> I doubt it breaks a lot of NewGRFs
17:42:43  <Rubidium> @services op
17:42:53  <Rubidium> the bloody thing doesn't like me
17:43:31  <frosch123> @services op
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17:43:46  <frosch123> dorpsgek doesn't know you apparently
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18:36:06  <Rubidium>
18:37:35  <frosch123> not sure about hardcoding the 1930
18:37:44  <frosch123> maybe insert the date of the first available engine?
18:38:42  <planetmaker> Hm, indeed. maybe the availability year could be gotten by the engines?
18:39:55  <frosch123> hmm, actually, is it possible to change the current date at that point?
18:40:09  <frosch123> it could just be advanced (or set back) so a engine is available
18:40:19  <planetmaker> set back?
18:40:35  <frosch123> yeah, imagine all engines expired :)
18:40:45  <frosch123> or no engines at all :p
18:40:50  <planetmaker> :D
18:40:57  * planetmaker has an idea for a new newgrf
18:41:00  <frosch123> but yeah, those cases make no sense, it should just not crash :)
18:41:04  <planetmaker> and wonders about the bug reports it will create
18:41:28  <planetmaker> "Simple vehicles"
18:41:38  <planetmaker> or better... "simple game"
18:41:47  <planetmaker> no engines, no houses, no industries :-)
18:42:04  <frosch123> with no houses you won't be able to start a game :)
18:42:18  <planetmaker> version2: one engine, one house, one industry, one cargo called "stuff"
18:42:47  <frosch123> sounds like a silly tutorial :p
18:42:58  <planetmaker> :D
18:43:00  <frosch123> build 5 engines to win
18:43:52  <planetmaker> needs also a specific town name newgrf: stuff town. stuffington, stuffodilia,...
18:44:08  <frosch123> stuffobia
18:44:25  <planetmaker> new stuff. stuff by water. stuff on hills
18:45:16  <planetmaker> hm, one airport...
18:45:26  <Rubidium> better?
18:46:11  <planetmaker> why introduction randomness? first two years aren't random
18:46:31  <frosch123> if (!HasBit(e->info.climates, _settings_game.game_creation.landscape)) continue; <- use e->IsEnabled() instead
18:47:01  <frosch123> planetmaker: it's not the first two years
18:47:27  <planetmaker> ah... yes... game already started. sorry. yes
18:47:43  <frosch123> but isn't the exact date already computed?
18:47:59  <Rubidium> for this game, but random...
18:48:19  <frosch123> ah, sorry, sure :)
18:48:36  <Rubidium> hmm... although, it's 2 years after the starting year
18:48:46  <Rubidium> so the randomness isn't needed
18:48:55  <frosch123> +STR_ERROR_NO_VEHICLES_AVAILABLE_EXPLANATION                     :{WHITE}Start OpenTTD after {DATE_TINY} or use a NewGRF that provides early vehicles <- s/OpenTTD/the game/
18:49:06  <frosch123> or even "a new game"
18:49:13  <planetmaker> a new game. yes
18:49:57  <planetmaker> Start a new game where your set the starting date after {DATE_TINY} or where you enable a NewGRF..."
18:50:13  <planetmaker> not that people get the idea to enable NewGRFs during this game
18:50:45  <planetmaker> but rubi's sentence sounds nicer
18:51:21  <Rubidium> new diff
18:51:49  <frosch123> removed the random again?
18:51:58  <frosch123> oh, sorry, you said that :)
18:52:08  <frosch123> looks fine to mr
18:52:22  <planetmaker> looks fine to the Mr, too ;-)
18:52:42  <planetmaker> grr... s/the/this/ ;-)
18:53:50  *** DorpsGek changes topic to "OpenTTD Dev Channel || Latest SVN: r25553 || Logs: || Voice (talk-right) upon request via #openttd; make sure you are registered to NickServ before asking"
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19:28:31  <Alberth> your grf should also have 'things' :)
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19:30:20  <planetmaker> maybe :-)
19:30:25  <planetmaker> but that's v3
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19:39:09  <Alberth> "major enhancement, twice as many cargos now!"
19:39:55  <planetmaker> exactly
20:04:49  <Alberth> Hmm, I also started adding something like that warning. Then I wondered about checking transportability of cargo and realized there are a lot more things can go wrong during setup.
20:05:40  <planetmaker> Alberth, it's a long way really. But... utopia can't be reached in one step... And every small one helps, I think
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