Log for #openttdcoop on 29th February 2012:
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00:06:34  *** DrSpangle has joined #openttdcoop
00:06:37  <DrSpangle> !password
00:06:37  <PublicServer> DrSpangle: flinch
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00:13:28  <mrbragster> anny one here?
00:13:30  *** DrSpangle has joined #openttdcoop
00:13:56  <mrbragster> sup?
00:13:59  <Rhamphoryncus> We're hiding in the dark
00:14:41  * DrSpangle lurks
00:16:08  <Rhamphoryncus> I tried that when I first joined #openttd.  Didn't work.
00:16:31  <DrSpangle> what didn't work?
00:16:50  <Rhamphoryncus> saying I was lurking
00:17:41  <DrSpangle> they caught you lurking huh
00:17:52  * Mazur lurkest.
00:18:48  <Rhamphoryncus> Mazur: I'm pretty sure I wanted to ask you something but I have no idea what
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00:25:25  <DrSpangle> how have you guys managed to get seperate stations for livestock and wheat?
00:25:45  <DrSpangle> whenever i get a train rolling into a station connected to a farm, all the livestock and wheat gets dumped on the one station
00:27:17  <planetmaker> build trains which load only one thing. And then send them to the respecitve stations only
00:27:28  <planetmaker> avoid that trains go to wrong stations
00:27:47  <DrSpangle> that's odd, i always did it that way but it would consistently dump them both even if i only owned wheat cars
00:27:50  <planetmaker> and yes, even while they may look like one station, we build one for each cargo
00:27:52  <DrSpangle> is it just a newgrf thing?
00:28:00  <planetmaker> nope
00:28:21  <DrSpangle> i wonder why i've been frustrated with this
00:28:25  <DrSpangle> maybe i'll try it again
00:28:38  <planetmaker> it even works that way in TTD itself
00:28:50  <DrSpangle> what's the advantage to only having one cargo per station, as opposed to combining farm stations
00:29:14  <planetmaker> you can better adjust trains for the station and provide better service
00:29:34  <planetmaker> when output is different and the output ration changes
00:29:45  <DrSpangle> i'm not sure what you mean by that
00:30:20  <planetmaker> you have, say, 12 livestock and 80 grain. You want excellent service for both
00:30:35  <DrSpangle> ah, naturally
00:30:50  <planetmaker> you might now adjust the wagons in a train to match that. But then a year later you might have 48 livestock and 66 grain
00:31:46  <planetmaker> where then the livestock gets bad service
00:32:30  <planetmaker> alternatively you use single-cargo trains. But then you might end up the whole station only taken by, say, grain trains. And again the livestock gets bad service
00:32:41  <DrSpangle> so what makes having a separate station better in this case, rather than just sending more/less/different
00:32:48  <DrSpangle> ah i see, yes
00:33:09  <DrSpangle> so by having dedicated paths for the specific resource type you guarantee a quality of service for that node
00:33:41  <planetmaker> yup
00:33:51  <planetmaker> it need not be path. Just station
00:33:55  <DrSpangle> i suppose this would also answer my question for how i can get the trains to use certain paths rather than others when they all meet in a big high efficiency station
00:33:58  <DrSpangle> right
00:34:12  <DrSpangle> i meant station platforms
00:34:22  <DrSpangle> they are, in themselves, a path are they not?
00:34:22  <planetmaker> yeah, that then yes
00:34:33  <planetmaker> well... path... yes
00:34:58  <DrSpangle> and you're right, it's important to make the distinction
00:35:02  <planetmaker> at least part of it
00:35:19  <DrSpangle> i guess you could say, you got me back on track
00:35:46  <planetmaker> :-)
00:35:57  <planetmaker> attention, pun coming in ;-)
00:36:41  <DrSpangle> so i've noticed that almost every sideline station is not a ro-ro station, but rather one where trains reverse once they've reached the station - why is this? it's really sidelined my progress towards efficient station design
00:37:02  <DrSpangle> i feel that using a ro-ro is always more suitable because the trains proceed in one direction, although it also imposes constraints on the architecture of the in and out paths
00:38:19  <planetmaker> There's no real reason for it. RoRo might be slightly more efficient. But for primary pickup stations a very simple terminus is also sufficient
00:38:41  <DrSpangle> what metrics is it sufficient to
00:38:44  <planetmaker> and otoh you can build terminus stations which are not worse than a roro ;-)
00:39:18  <DrSpangle> sorry?
00:39:26  <planetmaker> sufficient as in that it ensures that always a train loads
00:39:46  <DrSpangle> so the aim is to always have room for a train to come in and load
00:40:57  <planetmaker> yeah. And if you have two tracks... you have that quite normally as most of the time two trains will wait. One loading. One sitting there till the other departs and loading only then
00:41:35  <DrSpangle> in a terminus, you mean
00:41:52  <planetmaker> either station actually
00:42:07  <planetmaker> and that's why it doesn't matter roro or terminus
00:42:25  <DrSpangle> but i thought the aim was to always have a free track for a train to come in on
00:43:11  <DrSpangle> i suppose neither design really allows for this, you'll always have a queue in the path into the station regardless of which design you choose
00:44:22  <PublicServer> *** Mazur has left the game (connection lost)
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00:44:41  <planetmaker> if there's a big queue, you have too many trains or a too small station
00:44:48  <planetmaker> that's then bad management ;-)
00:44:55  <planetmaker> one train waiting or two - maybe
00:44:59  <planetmaker> but not more
00:45:05  <DrSpangle> that's good reasoning
00:45:24  <DrSpangle> i am studying trunington mines right now
00:45:54  <planetmaker> I didn't look at this particular map tbh
00:45:57  <planetmaker> !screen
00:45:57  <PublicServer> *** planetmaker liked to make screenshot of last action, but nobody was working since. (
00:46:14  <DrSpangle> it is a terminus station that has 1 input and 1 output path, intersect from 2 paths, and splits to 2 paths respectively
00:46:42  <DrSpangle> i've noticed in this architecture the output path splits but has no real way to guide the train into either of the 2 available outputs at the split
00:47:37  <DrSpangle> why is this? i've found in my experience that the trains choose arbitrarily but generally the pathfinding algorithm will only choose one of these, resulting in a disused path
00:47:45  <DrSpangle> what's the purpose of this?
00:48:15  <PublicServer> <Mazur> If there are may be more trains waiting, we use waiting bays or overflows: for a primary pickup station, two platforms is enough: one with a loading train, one with a train leaving and then the next train coming in, that never takes more time than loading a train.
00:48:16  <DrSpangle> oh, wait, maybe the bridge has something to do with this
00:48:47  <DrSpangle> i see
00:49:18  <PublicServer> <Mazur> What bridge?
00:49:23  <DrSpangle> there appears to be a depot here but it is not in overflow configuration
00:49:30  <DrSpangle> Mazur: i am looking at trunington mines
00:49:44  <DrSpangle> the entry/exit paths split and then these turn into bridges
00:50:01  <DrSpangle> my guess is that this configuration allows two trains to traverse the bridge
00:50:10  <DrSpangle> this essentially makes a raceway which allows whichever train is faster to exit first
00:50:34  <DrSpangle> but in theory you should only have one train exiting from this point at any given time, right
00:50:53  <PublicServer> <Mazur> No, that depot is just for adding trains.  We do not use depots trains can get directly into from the ML, because they collect lost trains without releasing them always.
00:50:54  <DrSpangle> so it seems that this configuration is redundant on the output path. and further, it seems that this is of no advantage on the input path if the trains are the same speed
00:51:31  <planetmaker> anyway, g'night
00:51:34  <PublicServer> <Mazur> The double nridge is massive overkill in this situation.
00:51:37  <DrSpangle> so long
00:51:43  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Slweep well, PM.
00:52:36  <DrSpangle> it seems a lot of things have gone awry with this bridge
00:52:48  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Double or more bidges are necessary on the ML to make sure traffic flow gets not halted at bridges.
00:52:50  <DrSpangle> especially on the output path, there is an errant exit signal, i see no reason for this to exist
00:52:58  <DrSpangle> yeah, but this is a sideline
00:53:03  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Indeed.
00:53:03  <DrSpangle> and it leads back into a single rail
00:53:15  <PublicServer> <Mazur> That is normal.
00:53:39  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Look at SLH 11N
00:53:53  <PublicServer> <Mazur> IN, I mean.
00:54:36  <DrSpangle> okay, what in particular should i notice about this
00:54:38  <PublicServer> <Mazur> You can see lots of parallel bridges joining back to one line.
00:55:21  <DrSpangle> i see that on the out path
00:55:24  <PublicServer> <Mazur> That is to make sure birdges are no flow stopper.
00:56:08  <PublicServer> <Mazur> While one train is on one bridge, the nexty can proceed over the other while the first one clears its bridge.
00:56:22  <Rhamphoryncus> !password
00:56:22  <PublicServer> Rhamphoryncus: circus
00:56:32  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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00:56:36  <DrSpangle> right, so that seems consistent with that raceway observation i made
00:57:14  <DrSpangle> but what i don't understand is how this prevents a train from waiting at the end of the bridge for the other to pass at the intersection point of the two paths
00:57:32  <Rhamphoryncus> Where are you looking now?
00:57:42  <Rhamphoryncus> Still trunington?
00:57:52  <DrSpangle> Mazur asked me to have a look at SLH 11 IN /OUT
00:57:52  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Only, since we use only one speed on the network, the first train alwasy exits the bridges first.
00:59:16  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Look for instance at the west most pair of bridges.
00:59:49  <DrSpangle> on the out path?
00:59:53  <PublicServer> <Mazur> One bridge is occcupied by a train, with a single bridge, the train that's following closely would have to wait until the birdge is completely cleared.
01:00:03  <PublicServer> <Mazur> No hte other side of the hub.
01:00:25  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Bottom left side.
01:00:31  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> Put a sign on it?
01:00:45  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> yeah plop a sign there
01:01:03  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> oh, i had my directions confused
01:01:11  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> i see it now
01:01:17  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> directions are confusing.  There's no in-game definition
01:01:40  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> i was referring to the double bridges located on your eastern side, near the SLH11 IN sign
01:01:42  <PublicServer> <Mazur> There is, sort of, top-left is north.
01:02:05  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> Openttdcoop has the definition of top-left is north, but even that isn't consistently followed
01:02:15  <PublicServer> <Mazur> It is with us.
01:02:16  <DrSpangle> i'll follow your convention
01:02:31  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> It hasn't been in the few games I've played
01:02:34  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Anyway, at !here.
01:02:36  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> But it doesn't matter
01:03:02  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> ok look here
01:03:16  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> i don't think i'm allowed to place a sign
01:03:19  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> The bridge at !here is a better example because it has higher traffic requirements
01:03:21  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> look at the path right at the SLH11 IN sign
01:03:23  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Just past my sign a train is blocking its bridge.
01:03:46  <PublicServer> <Mazur> The red train would have to wait.
01:03:48  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> click the train and tell us the number
01:04:02  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> 222 and 667?
01:04:24  <PublicServer> <Mazur> But by building a second bridge, the red train can use that while the 222 clears its bridge.
01:04:30  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Yes.
01:04:56  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> In particular that's because we're using presignals
01:05:06  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> right, so we've increased the bandwidth at that point, but it also means that the signals prior to the bridge must be long enough to account for the train exiting the bridge
01:05:08  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Mind you, they have to be separated with signals.
01:05:10  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> yes
01:05:20  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> Classic TTD had only block signals but openttd has three varieties: block signals, presignals, and path signals
01:05:20  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> that's what i was just saying, so we're on the same wavelength
01:05:38  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Yes.
01:05:49  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> yeah, so we put a presignal at the beginning of the split, and then an exit signal at the beginning and end of the bridge
01:06:25  <PublicServer> <Mazur> You can also do it with a path signal and only block signals didectly behind the bridges, but we prefer the pre-/exit-signal entries.
01:06:36  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> i prefer those also
01:06:50  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Due to major path signal errors (in the past?).
01:07:04  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> Pathsignals use a variety of weightings.  Powerful, but ultimately a heuristic
01:07:23  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> Presignals are more self contained and predictable
01:07:30  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> okay so do you see where train 894 is
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01:07:37  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> it is passing under two bridges
01:07:55  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> it appears to me that this bridge system is not sufficiently engineered to account for the scenario illustrated !here
01:08:02  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Anyway, there is a formula for calculating how many birdges or tunnels you need to maintainthe same capacity as a single line without bridges.
01:08:12  <PublicServer> <Mazur> @@(gap)
01:08:13  <Webster> PublicServer: (gap <trainlength> [<split>]) -- Returns minimum and maximum signal gap sizes for 2,3 and 4 linesplits with <trainlength>. If <spilt> is given it will return the gap sizes for <split> (+/-) 1.
01:08:26  <Mazur> !gap
01:08:26  <PublicServer> Mazur: !gap <trainlength> <gap>: Returns amount of tunnels/bridges needed. Formula: (<gap>+<trainlength>-2)/(<trainlength>+2)
01:09:16  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> do you see?
01:09:58  <PublicServer> <Mazur> ``
01:10:00  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> See what?
01:10:23  <PublicServer> <Mazur> DO you see-ee-eee the light?!?
01:10:29  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> train 894 is passing under two bridges which do not conform to the standard required to the trains to enter (SLH11 IN) in sync
01:11:02  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> or am i misinterpreting the purpose of this path
01:11:02  <PublicServer> <Mazur> But with a PATH signal at the split it works.
01:11:04  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> The ones next to the SLH11 IN wp?
01:11:16  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> yes
01:11:30  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> That's just using a path signal for the same effect
01:11:41  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> Due to space constraints
01:11:56  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Indeed.
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01:12:28  <Rhamphoryncus> Unrelated: I don't suppose you know anything about the pathfinder implementation, Mazur?
01:12:46  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> hm , okay
01:12:52  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Not the first word of code.
01:13:11  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> so how does the path signal prevent a train from having to wait at this split then
01:13:13  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> Oh well
01:13:35  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> at SLH11 OUT
01:13:41  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> just after the waypoint
01:13:43  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> Path signals can enter the same block another train is in
01:13:49  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> So long as their paths don't overlap
01:14:07  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> so we're relying on the signal gap prior to this split in order to maintain the timing
01:14:13  <PublicServer> <Mazur> DrSpangle: With a PBS (Path Based Signal), the next block can contain 2 trains, as long as each can see a next signal without interference.
01:14:16  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> Yup
01:14:30  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> Which is actually true for the presignal bridges too
01:14:48  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> yeah it's all about the signal gap timing to maintain the self regulation of this system
01:14:51  <PublicServer> <Mazur> It ignores the occupied bridge because it has a clear path over the other bridge.
01:14:53  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> If there's a blockage immediately after the bridge then they can stop on the bridge and sometimes have trouble getting back into s ync
01:15:27  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> i'm not sure where these crazy bridges lead
01:15:38  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> they seem to pass somewhere under that kludge of 5 bridges just west of there
01:15:58  <PublicServer> <Mazur> They also split to the south.
01:16:36  <PublicServer> <Mazur> And tunnel under the  other ML track.
01:16:38  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> does the southern bridge (the tube one) lead into a tunnel, which then aligns south past the refinery?
01:17:08  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> how do you guys manage to design these complicated hubs without going crazy? do you do it on paper and then implement it?
01:17:10  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> It doesn't have to sync
01:17:20  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> It is challenging
01:17:38  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> But underneath it's just a few connected components
01:17:45  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> split, swap places, merge back together
01:18:07  <PublicServer> <Mazur> No, we build the ML tracks, leaving space between them, and add SL tracks where they are suppsoed to come from and go to.
01:18:41  <PublicServer> <Mazur> After the firs few you get the hang of it.
01:18:51  <PublicServer> <Mazur> For me it gets tricky again when the terrain is uneven.
01:19:03  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> yeah i can't comprehend any of this when the terrain is uneven
01:19:13  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Because I ahve not build that many hubs yet.
01:19:16  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> i am attempting to analyze it from a 2d perspective, like a circuit schematic diagram
01:19:34  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> Yeah, I can't handle the rought terrain either
01:20:40  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> how do you perform work on these, without the trains blowing up all over the place?
01:20:51  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> do you deactivate single lines?
01:21:13  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Either know what you;'re doing, or stop a train just before it reaches where you're going to change stuff.
01:21:15  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> i mean this is a serious engineering problem in real life too
01:21:18  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> Stop the train when necessary, but mostly not removing a track with a signal if it'd let a collision happen
01:21:24  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> or join a track that'd let a collision happen
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01:21:30  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> yeah
01:21:52  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Removing a piece of track is not recommended, though, because trains would get lost.
01:22:11  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> You try to keep the window short but often it's the easiest way
01:22:22  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Normally we request you keep a conection between both sides to rpevent that.
01:22:30  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Indeed.
01:22:37  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> Build all the new track beside it, then preferably remove some signals in the way, connect the new, and remove the old
01:23:03  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Removing signals is always hte dangerous part, that's when trains collide.
01:23:05  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> but if you're on a slope you want to shift up or down you often have to remove the old first
01:23:12  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Indeed.
01:23:21  <Steven> !password
01:23:21  <PublicServer> Steven: sodomy
01:23:30  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> i'm guessing once a mainline setup is completed, it's more or less set in stone
01:23:37  <PublicServer> <Mazur> If it's unavoidable, it's unavoidable.
01:23:43  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Not really.
01:23:45  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> these really big hubs are basically monolithic
01:23:52  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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01:23:57  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> i don't see how removing any one component wouldn't cause a big disaster
01:24:17  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Once things are good and well under way, traffi gets so heacy hte network can;t handle it.
01:24:23  <PublicServer> *** Mazur has joined spectators
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01:24:32  <PublicServer> <Mazur> And then we expand, adding lines.
01:25:06  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> so it's possible to construct even these big sideline hubs like that?
01:25:13  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Starting with the busiest points and working our way along hte line until traffic subsides somewhere.
01:25:16  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Yes.
01:25:43  <PublicServer> *** Steven has joined spectators
01:25:59  <PublicServer> <Mazur> It's not alwasy easy, and sometimes hubs get completely rebuild, but usually it's simply adding  new connections at the hubs.
01:26:45  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Anyway, I'm going.
01:26:51  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> goodbye
01:26:51  <PublicServer> <Mazur> See ya.
01:26:54  <PublicServer> *** Mazur has left the game (leaving)
01:27:14  <PublicServer> <DrSpangle> it's just about time for me to go too
01:27:20  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> toodles
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09:06:38  <elecRules> !players
09:06:41  <PublicServer> elecRules: There are currently no clients connected to the server
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09:07:31  <roboboy> hello
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09:55:46  <roboboy> !logs
09:58:36  <roboboy> well the cookie plugin seems to break some tabs I am working with
09:58:36  <roboboy> the tabs work without the cookie plugin but not with it
09:58:36  <roboboy> the jqueryui forums don't seem to be very active
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10:06:58  <elecRules> @roboboy what're you trying to do with jqueryui/cookie plugin?
10:08:04  <elecRules> !players
10:08:07  <PublicServer> elecRules: There are currently no clients connected to the server
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11:39:25  *** roboboy has quit IRC
11:45:54  *** Ivan_M has joined #openttdcoop
11:46:03  <Ivan_M> !password
11:46:03  <PublicServer> Ivan_M: sodomy
11:46:13  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
11:46:14  <PublicServer> *** Ivan_M joined the game
11:48:38  <elecRules> !password
11:48:38  <PublicServer> elecRules: sodomy
11:49:15  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
11:49:15  <PublicServer> *** elecRules joined the game
11:49:47  <PublicServer> <elecRules> Aren't two players sufficient for unpause? :/
11:50:04  <elecRules> !players
11:50:06  <PublicServer> elecRules: Client 2508 is Ivan_M, a spectator
11:50:06  <PublicServer> elecRules: Client 2511 (Orange) is elecRules, in company 1 (Trunington Transport)
11:50:17  <elecRules> 0hhh, spectating
11:50:17  <elecRules> right
11:51:12  <Ivan_M> Hi, I just want to take a look but if you want to build I can join
11:51:51  <PublicServer> <elecRules> I just got confused by the spectator-mode  :P
11:52:22  <PublicServer> <elecRules> a running network is more fun to observe :)
11:53:28  <PublicServer> <elecRules> could you join please?
11:53:43  <PublicServer> *** Ivan_M has joined company #1
11:53:43  <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
11:53:47  <PublicServer> <elecRules> thx :)
11:53:52  <Ivan_M> np :-)
12:03:50  *** Hazard has joined #openttdcoop
12:04:50  <Hazard> Hi, is anyone active?
12:05:25  *** Progman has joined #openttdcoop
12:05:40  <Hazard> !register
12:07:07  <Hazard> Anyone active?
12:07:21  <Ivan_M> Hi, yes, sort of
12:08:24  <Hazard> Hi
12:08:45  <PublicServer> *** bassals joined the game
12:08:49  <PublicServer> <bassals> hello
12:09:15  * planetmaker recommends @@quickstart
12:09:16  <Webster> Quickstart - #openttdcoop Wiki -
12:09:19  *** Hazard is now known as Lugnuts
12:10:11  <Lugnuts> Okay
12:11:52  <Lugnuts> How popular is  OTTDcoop?
12:13:21  <hylje> !playercount
12:13:21  <PublicServer> hylje: Number of players: 3 (0 spectators)
12:14:25  <Lugnuts> How many players do you think are active durin a day?
12:15:37  <hylje> maybe ten different players daily
12:18:05  <Lugnuts> How long does a typical game last?
12:18:05  <planetmaker> some questions make me wonder what answer is expected. And another 10 if you look at the Welcome server
12:18:25  <planetmaker> 1 to two weeks
12:19:16  <planetmaker> !archive
12:19:16  <PublicServer> planetmaker: http://www.openttdcoop.ORG/wiki/PublicServer:Archive | |
12:19:25  <planetmaker> ^^ go figure yourself, if you need that more detailed
12:20:17  <Lugnuts> Thanks
12:20:19  <Lugnuts> I just want to get an idea of what this is
12:20:26  <Lugnuts> You guys seem pretty serious
12:20:34  <Lugnuts> about OTTD
12:20:44  <planetmaker> serious? It's a game
12:21:18  <planetmaker> We take joy in building jointly giant train networks which have a high throughput
12:22:12  <Lugnuts> Dedicated, maybe?
12:22:12  <theholyduck> its pretty fun yeah
12:22:38  <planetmaker> yeah, possibly
12:22:39  <theholyduck> Lugnuts, the exact number of people playing varies from game to game.
12:22:57  <theholyduck> for that sake, so does who
12:23:08  <Lugnuts> Ok
12:23:34  <planetmaker> people com and people go ;-)
12:24:37  <planetmaker> we have two main game server: this PublicServer and the Welcome server
12:24:44  <Ammler> around every tenth openttd player is a openttdcoop player :-)
12:24:58  <Ammler> openttd mp player
12:25:12  <planetmaker> on this PublicServer we strictly only play in one company and build a network to the style previously voted upon
12:26:06  <planetmaker> with the welcome server we operate a MP server with multiple companies where everyone can build his own style. But we take care that things work fair and no stealing and stuff
12:26:28  <Lugnuts> I'm suprised I haven't heard of this yet
12:26:55  <Ammler> we try to avoid mainstream
12:27:00  *** Lugnuts has quit IRC
12:27:00  <Ammler> that is why use nightlies
12:27:13  <planetmaker> heart of what? This server? This community?
12:27:36  <planetmaker> Well... we don't advertise directly
12:27:49  <theholyduck> i think people just stumble upon it
12:27:54  <planetmaker> though many searches for OpenTTD will (also) give links to our pages
12:28:13  <Ammler> and you can't be a good openttd player wihtout at least knowing openttdcoop :-P
12:28:19  <Ammler> (you don't need to like it)
12:28:36  <planetmaker> not least as we also operate the biggest platform for OpenTTD NewGRF, AI and other add-on development
12:29:01  <PublicServer> <bassals> also AI?
12:29:11  <planetmaker> sure
12:29:23  <Ammler> is closed afaik
12:29:26  <planetmaker> yup
12:29:34  <planetmaker> all projects were migrated to the devzone
12:30:23  <planetmaker> Bassals: doesn't mean that we write them. But we offer the infrastructure to host them
12:30:54  <PublicServer> <bassals> a
12:31:02  <PublicServer> <bassals> oops, okay thanks
12:33:06  <theholyduck> i wonder if infrastructure sharing will ever get commited to openttd
12:33:10  <theholyduck> its a cool concept atleast
12:37:05  *** Lugnuts has joined #openttdcoop
12:37:12  <Lugnuts> Sorry about that
12:38:16  <Lugnuts> !password
12:38:16  <PublicServer> Lugnuts: octave
12:38:27  <Lugnuts> !ip
12:38:27  <PublicServer> Lugnuts:
12:39:10  <Lugnuts> Server is nightly?
12:39:25  <hylje> yup
12:39:27  <hylje> !dl
12:39:27  <PublicServer> hylje: !dl autostart|autottd|lin|lin64|osx|ottdau|source|win32|win64|win9x
12:39:27  <PublicServer> hylje:
12:42:33  <Lugnuts> Zip archive download only?
12:42:38  <Lugnuts> Or am I missing something?
12:42:45  <elecRules> Which OS are you using?
12:43:05  <planetmaker> there's no installer for nightlies
12:43:07  <planetmaker> iirc
12:43:09  <Lugnuts> Windows 7
12:43:09  <elecRules> (Windows/Linux 32/64 bits)
12:43:17  <planetmaker> nor is any installer needed
12:43:23  <elecRules> 32 bit/64 bit?
12:43:27  <planetmaker> (also not for releases, but that's another matter)
12:44:25  <Lugnuts> My internet is terrible btw
12:44:46  <elecRules> !dl win32
12:44:46  <PublicServer> elecRules:
12:44:51  <elecRules> ^^ that should work
12:44:58  <elecRules> just extract it to a folder, anywhere
12:45:23  <PublicServer> <elecRules> No need for that 2nd PBS
12:45:26  <Lugnuts> Is there any conflict with having two versions
12:45:36  <PublicServer> <elecRules> the crash occured due to me removing it at a bad time
12:45:37  <planetmaker> nope
12:45:47  <planetmaker> if they're in separate dirs, you're safe
12:46:06  <PublicServer> <bassals> the waiting bay has to be long to make the overflow work
12:46:20  <PublicServer> <bassals> now it's not working
12:46:22  <Lugnuts> How do you set the directory?
12:46:32  <PublicServer> <elecRules> Is that OK now?
12:46:47  <PublicServer> <elecRules> ohhhhh, it can't reach the depot
12:46:49  <PublicServer> <elecRules> right
12:48:27  <Lugnuts> elecRules: Which server are you playing on?
12:48:33  <PublicServer> <elecRules> The public one
12:48:41  <elecRules> !ip
12:48:41  <PublicServer> elecRules:
12:48:54  <Lugnuts> Thanks
12:49:01  <PublicServer> <elecRules> No problem :-)
12:51:02  <Lugnuts> Do you guys know how to change the directory?
12:51:25  <bassals> the directory?
12:52:18  <Lugnuts> !log
12:54:01  *** ashaw has joined #openttdcoop
12:56:03  <Lugnuts> !curve
12:56:03  <PublicServer> Lugnuts:
12:58:26  *** Maraxus has joined #openttdcoop
12:59:26  <Lugnuts> !companies
12:59:27  <PublicServer> Lugnuts: Company 1 (Orange): Trunington Transport
13:00:03  <Maraxus> !password
13:00:03  <PublicServer> Maraxus: quacks
13:00:21  <PublicServer> *** Maraxus joined the game
13:00:29  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> hi
13:00:43  <PublicServer> <elecRules> hi :)
13:00:48  <Ivan_M> hi
13:02:38  <ashaw> Hey, I
13:02:56  <ashaw> have been thinking about joining a game with you guys
13:05:27  <Lugnuts> Does the nightly save games, ais, etc in a different directory as default?
13:05:40  <bassals> no
13:05:55  <bassals> it saves them in the default directory
13:06:08  <Lugnuts> Is there a way to change it, or will there be conflicts?
13:06:32  <bassals> I don't know
13:07:32  <Lugnuts> You do nightlies only?
13:07:41  <PublicServer> <bassals> yes
13:07:55  <PublicServer> <bassals> you can download it with !dl
13:07:59  <bassals> !dl
13:07:59  <PublicServer> bassals: !dl autostart|autottd|lin|lin64|osx|ottdau|source|win32|win64|win9x
13:07:59  <PublicServer> bassals:
13:08:29  <bassals> then you have to install the grf pack in the shared directory
13:09:25  <Lugnuts> I downloaded that
13:09:40  <Lugnuts> Shared directory/
13:09:41  <Lugnuts> ?
13:10:01  <PublicServer> <bassals> where the saves are stored
13:10:15  <PublicServer> <bassals> for windows usually Documents/OpenTTD
13:10:17  <Lugnuts> So in documents/OpenTTD?
13:10:42  <Lugnuts> So just plop it in there and both versions will work fine?
13:10:49  <PublicServer> *** Ivan_M has left the game (general timeout)
13:10:49  <PublicServer> *** Ivan_M has left the game (connection lost)
13:11:03  <bassals> mmm no
13:11:13  <Lugnuts> Also, can you connect to older versions (non-nightly) servers?
13:11:18  <bassals> no
13:11:31  <bassals> you have to keep the two versions in different folders
13:11:53  <bassals> you've got to download the nightly from there
13:11:53  <Ammler> documents/OpenTTD/newgrf or data
13:12:13  <Ammler> @quickstart
13:12:14  <Webster> Quickstart - #openttdcoop Wiki -
13:12:17  <PublicServer> <elecRules> You can put all the newgrfs in the folder you extracted too
13:12:19  <PublicServer> <elecRules> to*
13:12:37  <PublicServer> <elecRules> as long as you do that for all your installations instead of using the shared folder, it should be OK
13:13:12  <Ammler> elecRules: why? using shared folder is what is meant for the grfpack
13:13:26  <PublicServer> <bassals> my fault
13:13:40  <PublicServer> <elecRules> The grfpack isn't compatible with previous/future versions too well, isn't it?
13:13:46  <Ammler> why not?
13:13:58  <PublicServer> <elecRules> it's designed for a nightly version
13:14:06  <Ammler> folder newgrf isn't compatbile with older openttd, that is why I still would use data
13:14:10  <PublicServer> <elecRules> a.k.a. VeryBuggy(tm)
13:14:14  <Ammler> as that works also on newer
13:15:02  <Ammler> elecRules: what is buggy? that might be worth a bug report
13:15:09  <PublicServer> <elecRules> I don't mean a particular bug
13:15:15  <PublicServer> <elecRules> I mean that nightlies are unstable, in general
13:15:56  <Ammler> yes, but that should not matter, where it reads the newgrf data
13:15:57  <Webster> Read the Quickstart - #openttdcoop Wiki - (again, try !grf)
13:17:03  *** Ivan_M has quit IRC
13:20:29  <Lugnuts> I think I got it working
13:20:37  <PublicServer> <elecRules> :)
13:22:02  <Lugnuts> My AIs from the stable shouldn't show up in content download, right?
13:22:09  <Lugnuts> And other online content
13:23:15  <Ammler> if you don't want, you install those to the install dir else you do it the usual way and install it to your data dir, which you share with other installs
13:24:55  <Lugnuts> My computer can't find the 4 new GRF Files
13:25:13  <planetmaker> elecRules: define unstable or VeryBuggy
13:25:15  <PublicServer> <bassals> can't you download them ingame?
13:25:41  <elecRules> planetmaker: Random desyncs, crashes, etc
13:26:11  <Lugnuts> I'm doing the find missing GRFs option
13:26:41  <PublicServer> <bassals> if the game does not find them it means they are from the pack
13:26:55  <Lugnuts> Pack?
13:26:56  <bassals> you have to download the newgrf pack
13:26:58  <bassals> !grf
13:26:58  <PublicServer> bassals: (Version 8.0)
13:27:12  <bassals> and copy it to Documents/OpenTTD/data
13:28:28  <Lugnuts> Ok
13:29:09  <Ammler> Lugnuts: just wondering, did you read quickstart?
13:29:29  <planetmaker> :-)
13:29:32  <Lugnuts> I skimmed over it
13:29:37  <Ammler> :-)
13:29:46  <planetmaker> at least I gave the link. And the quickstart is for reading. Not just noticing the link
13:29:57  <planetmaker> skimming over is fine for slowstart
13:29:59  <planetmaker> @slowstart
13:29:59  <Webster> Read everything on the wiki, and I mean everything
13:30:58  <PublicServer> <elecRules> Damn it, gotta go to bed
13:31:01  *** Absolutis has joined #openttdcoop
13:31:02  <PublicServer> <elecRules> cya soon everyone
13:31:08  <PublicServer> <bassals> goodbye
13:31:14  <Absolutis> !password
13:31:14  <PublicServer> Absolutis: wanton
13:31:14  <PublicServer> <elecRules> someone please add a 4th platform to wood drop near SLH10
13:31:20  <PublicServer> <bassals> what is your timezone?
13:31:34  <PublicServer> <elecRules> GMT+9:30 (+1 more due to DST)
13:31:41  <PublicServer> <elecRules> SA, Australia
13:31:47  <PublicServer> *** elecRules has left the game (leaving)
13:31:47  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players)
13:32:13  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
13:32:13  <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
13:32:13  <PublicServer> *** Absolutis joined the game
13:32:21  <PublicServer> <bassals> hello
13:33:13  *** Lugnuts_ has joined #openttdcoop
13:33:14  *** Lugnuts_ is now known as Lugnuts2
13:33:58  *** Lugnuts is now known as Guest4521
13:33:58  *** Lugnuts2 is now known as lugnuts
13:34:09  *** lugnuts is now known as Lugnuts
13:34:17  <Lugnuts> Sorry
13:34:21  <Lugnuts> Internet problem
13:37:37  *** Guest4521 has quit IRC
13:40:11  <Lugnuts> Aparently it is going to take me an half hour to download the GRF pack
13:40:55  *** Ivan_M has joined #openttdcoop
13:41:03  <Ivan_M> !password
13:41:03  <PublicServer> Ivan_M: amoral
13:41:20  <PublicServer> *** Ivan_M joined the game
13:41:21  <PublicServer> <bassals> hello
13:41:27  <PublicServer> <Absolutis> Hi
13:41:41  <Ivan_M> Hi
13:41:56  <PublicServer> *** bassals has joined spectators
13:42:03  <Ivan_M> theese passwords are always so funny
13:42:50  <PublicServer> <Absolutis> hmm
13:43:36  <PublicServer> <Absolutis> should MSH 05- BBH 03 be expanded?
13:46:14  <Lugnuts> How does the server connect to the IRC with the nametags?
13:46:20  <PublicServer> *** Absolutis has joined spectators
13:46:20  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players)
13:48:30  <Lugnuts> My download speed is 10MB/s
13:48:34  *** Rhamphoryncus has joined #openttdcoop
13:49:28  <Rhamphoryncus> !playercount
13:49:28  <PublicServer> Rhamphoryncus: Number of players: 8 (6 spectators)
13:49:32  <PublicServer> *** Ivan_M has left the game (leaving)
13:49:59  <Rhamphoryncus> !password
13:49:59  <PublicServer> Rhamphoryncus: golfed
13:50:16  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
13:50:16  <PublicServer> *** Rhamphoryncus joined the game
13:50:30  <Rhamphoryncus> ..
13:51:08  <Rhamphoryncus> it claimed 2 players and 6 spectators.  It was at most 1 and 3.
13:51:57  <planetmaker> happens
13:52:45  <planetmaker> no-one finished an open-source admin client which suits at least approx. our needs. Or at least there's non I know of
13:52:54  * Rhamphoryncus nods
13:54:18  <PublicServer> *** Rhamphoryncus has left the game (leaving)
13:55:58  *** Ryton has joined #openttdcoop
13:57:38  <Lugnuts> Erm, my download speed isn't 10MB/s its 10KB/s
14:05:51  <Lugnuts> Dammit
14:05:59  <Lugnuts> My download has frozen up
14:08:05  <planetmaker> the server has a working 1GBit connection
14:12:15  *** Webster has joined #openttdcoop
14:12:15  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Webster
14:13:17  <Lugnuts> ?
14:13:17  <Lugnuts> I am downloading the GRF pack
14:13:17  <Lugnuts> Meh
14:13:17  <Lugnuts> I'll just let it run overnight
14:15:20  <Lugnuts> Yesss
14:15:23  <Lugnuts> It downloaded
14:15:31  <Lugnuts> My Internet can be very random at times
14:15:46  *** Guest4530 has quit IRC
14:15:53  <Lugnuts> Oh
14:16:00  <Lugnuts> Looks like it is corrupted
14:16:48  <Lugnuts> !players
14:16:51  <PublicServer> Lugnuts: Client 2538 is Absolutis, a spectator
14:16:51  <PublicServer> Lugnuts: Client 2517 is bassals, a spectator
14:16:51  <PublicServer> Lugnuts: Client 2529 is Maraxus, a spectator
14:17:00  <PublicServer> *** bassals has joined company #1
14:19:06  <Lugnuts> !playercount
14:19:06  <PublicServer> Lugnuts: Number of players: 3 (2 spectators)
14:24:39  <Rhamphoryncus> Heya bassals
14:24:54  <bassals> hello yellow
14:27:22  *** Lugnuts has quit IRC
14:34:02  <V453000> !password
14:34:02  <PublicServer> V453000: melted
14:34:24  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
14:34:33  <PublicServer> *** V453000 has left the game (connection lost)
14:34:35  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
14:35:19  <PublicServer> *** V453000 has left the game (downloading map took too long)
14:35:19  <PublicServer> *** V453000 has left the game (connection lost)
14:35:19  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
14:35:53  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
14:35:53  <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
14:35:53  <PublicServer> *** V453000 joined the game
14:36:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> hi
14:36:02  <PublicServer> <bassals> hello
14:37:40  *** Ryton has quit IRC
14:38:37  *** Ryton has joined #openttdcoop
14:40:46  <PublicServer> *** V453000 has left the game (leaving)
14:40:46  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players)
14:46:11  <PublicServer> *** bassals has left the game (leaving)
14:46:19  <PublicServer> *** Maraxus has left the game (leaving)
14:47:53  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
14:47:56  <PublicServer> *** bassals joined the game
14:48:50  *** mfb- has joined #openttdcoop
14:48:50  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mfb-
14:48:59  <mfb-> hi
14:49:01  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
14:49:01  <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
14:49:04  <PublicServer> *** mfb joined the game
14:49:07  <PublicServer> <bassals> hello
14:51:35  <V453000> hai
14:53:37  <PublicServer> <mfb> do you know what !here is?
14:54:14  <PublicServer> <bassals> no
14:55:18  <PublicServer> <mfb> wtf is paper pickup exit
14:55:19  *** TWerkhoven[l] has joined #openttdcoop
14:57:24  <PublicServer> <mfb> is it me, or the server, with the bad connection?
15:01:41  *** Ivan_M has quit IRC
15:07:06  <PublicServer> <mfb> oh, progress at the SLH
15:07:16  <PublicServer> <bassals> where?
15:07:28  <PublicServer> <mfb> where you are working :p
15:08:22  <PublicServer> <bassals> what is that penalty and that in the MS?
15:08:36  <PublicServer> <mfb> penalty is a pathfinder penalty
15:08:39  <PublicServer> <mfb> MS?
15:08:49  <PublicServer> <bassals> main station
15:08:56  <PublicServer> <bassals> why not a reversed pbs?
15:09:06  <PublicServer> <mfb> no idea
15:09:13  <PublicServer> <mfb> has a similar effect
15:10:42  <mfb-> !ping
15:10:42  <PublicServer> mfb-: pong
15:17:36  <PublicServer> <mfb> cleaning up?
15:21:43  <Ryton> is a fourth line at wood drop/paper pickup done?
15:21:58  <PublicServer> <mfb> the station exit is crap
15:22:01  <PublicServer> <mfb> but the 4th line works
15:22:35  <PublicServer> <mfb> nice signal gaps on that ML
15:22:45  <PublicServer> <bassals> where?
15:22:55  <PublicServer> <mfb> fixed
15:23:06  <PublicServer> <mfb> somewhere on the diagonal elements near hunworth heights
15:23:17  <Ryton> my fault again?
15:23:40  <PublicServer> <mfb> +- some tiles
15:23:56  <Rhamphoryncus> Spot my !broken signal insanity yet?
15:24:25  <PublicServer> <mfb> there is no such sign
15:24:40  <Ryton> I'm really making too many mistakes these days :-(
15:24:46  <PublicServer> <mfb> snake nest exit to west is jamming
15:25:00  <Rhamphoryncus> Ryton: but you are prolific ;)
15:25:14  *** theholyduck has quit IRC
15:25:17  <Rhamphoryncus> !password
15:25:17  <PublicServer> Rhamphoryncus: sucked
15:25:28  <PublicServer> *** Rhamphoryncus joined the game
15:26:01  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> ... somebody just deleted all the signs and put the track piece back
15:26:16  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> Nothing saying they actually fixed it
15:26:26  <PublicServer> <mfb> where?
15:26:45  <Ryton> lol, ty for the irony in your compliment ;-)
15:26:56  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> It was a pathfinder bug, not actually a signal bug
15:27:01  <Rhamphoryncus> Ryton: :)
15:27:47  *** valsina has joined #openttdcoop
15:28:00  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> What happened is you'd have a train in the northeastexit back and one in the southwest bay and one waiting to come in from south
15:28:11  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> when the southeast clears the south goes northeast instead
15:28:12  *** elecRules has quit IRC
15:28:13  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> just like that
15:28:53  <Ryton> yeah I witnessed it as well
15:29:17  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> If the load conditions are right it'll happen every couple trains
15:29:20  <Ryton> should have made a screenshot :-(
15:29:26  <mfb-> where? ;)
15:30:44  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> If you reverse the stuck train a moment it'll happily go another way
15:30:53  <Ryton> msh02 I thought
15:31:13  <Rhamphoryncus> huh?
15:31:27  <PublicServer> <mfb> wtf
15:31:50  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> exactly
15:32:08  <PublicServer> <mfb> is it really so difficult to understand ">200km/h"?
15:32:14  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> lol
15:32:20  <PublicServer> <mfb> or just leaving working stations like they are?
15:32:42  <PublicServer> <mfb> who removed the fast trains and added 112km/h-trains to that station...
15:32:56  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> Padhattan Ridge?  Not I
15:33:18  <PublicServer> <mfb> it's just... so extremely wrong
15:33:32  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> I rerouted most of SL10 to SL01, but I'm not intentionally going to make them slow
15:34:02  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm well, that is another issue
15:34:12  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> yeah
15:35:14  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> I don't think any of them can hit 200
15:35:48  <Maraxus> !password
15:35:49  <PublicServer> Maraxus: podded
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15:36:16  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> hi
15:36:22  <PublicServer> <bassals> hello
15:36:22  <PublicServer> <mfb> hi
15:37:20  <mfb-> !rcon set max_trains 1202
15:39:13  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> I actually hit another pathing bug earlier.  Train at paper pickup insisted on attempting a 90° turn
15:39:43  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> let me see if it'll still do it
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15:41:05  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> naw, not triggering and I don't feel like babysitting it
15:41:15  <PublicServer> <mfb> :p
15:42:05  <PublicServer> <bassals> well, I have to go
15:42:09  <PublicServer> <bassals> goodbye
15:42:12  <PublicServer> <mfb> bye
15:42:22  <Rhamphoryncus> Cya
15:42:26  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> cu
15:42:36  <PublicServer> *** bassals has left the game (leaving)
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15:42:41  <Rhamphoryncus> I'm gonna leave the server too.  Playing openttd in another window ;)
15:42:47  <PublicServer> *** Rhamphoryncus has left the game (leaving)
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16:00:49  <AdmSpock> Greetings, Earthlings! :P
16:06:13  <AdmSpock> quite al lot has changed the past years in ottd
16:35:34  <planetmaker> it has. be greeted
16:38:43  <AdmSpock> @password
16:38:52  <AdmSpock> !password
16:38:52  <PublicServer> AdmSpock: tartan
16:39:20  <PublicServer> *** Adm.Spock joined the game
16:43:11  <PublicServer> *** Maraxus has joined spectators
16:47:47  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> There seems to be a traffic jamm @MSH02 :-)
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16:54:53  <PublicServer> <mfb> well, MSH02...
16:55:15  <PublicServer> <mfb> that is a difficult thing
16:56:34  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> Crammed into a valley
16:57:29  <smoovi> !screen
16:57:29  <PublicServer> *** smoovi liked to make screenshot of last action, but nobody was working since. (
17:15:53  *** Ryton has joined #openttdcoop
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17:17:34  <Ivan_M> !password
17:17:34  <PublicServer> Ivan_M: garret
17:18:14  <PublicServer> *** Ivan_M joined the game
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17:25:19  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> who's currently meddling with MSH02?
17:25:23  <PublicServer> <mfb> me
17:25:49  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> ok :P
17:25:55  <Ivan_M> can I use RV to connect the farn near FPP to it?
17:25:55  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> what's your plan?
17:26:05  <PublicServer> <mfb> connect the 4th from W
17:26:39  <PublicServer> <mfb> the one near SLH11? just use SLH11 please
17:27:02  <PublicServer> <mfb> if a farm spawns on the same area as the drop station, RVs are fine
17:27:08  <PublicServer> <mfb> like the coal mine there
17:27:09  <Ivan_M> yup near SLH11
17:27:20  <PublicServer> <mfb> but this farm is so nice near the SLH
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17:37:22  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> Solved ;-)
17:37:32  <PublicServer> <mfb> but why?
17:41:44  <PublicServer> <mfb> another one
17:41:48  <PublicServer> <mfb> who makes these?
17:42:14  <PublicServer> <mfb> maybe the ML builder was unaware of the ctrl+drag-option
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17:42:41  <Rhamphoryncus> !password
17:42:41  <PublicServer> Rhamphoryncus: passer
17:42:52  <PublicServer> *** Rhamphoryncus joined the game
17:42:57  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> mfb, where?
17:43:29  <PublicServer> <mfb> I think these two
17:43:37  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> ahh
17:43:43  <PublicServer> <mfb> but I fixed at least 4 signal gaps like this in that section
17:43:58  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> this one is already fixed?
17:44:02  <PublicServer> <mfb> it is
17:44:33  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> Ryton had been expanding here
17:45:46  <PublicServer> <mfb> 2
17:45:57  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> Ahh, I see
17:46:11  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> i'm tidying in that corner of MSH02
17:46:17  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> wait, ctrl-drag option?
17:46:43  <PublicServer> <mfb> rham: see !signals
17:46:49  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> No, there is no ctrl-drag option
17:47:15  <PublicServer> <mfb> do you see it?
17:47:27  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> missed it
17:47:35  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> huh
17:47:41  <PublicServer> <mfb> signals around all corners automatically
17:48:08  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> I've been suffering without that for a long time x_x
17:48:24  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> until it hits a junction or other signal
17:48:25  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> "This is stupid, it'd be easy to automate"
17:48:31  <PublicServer> <mfb> :p
17:48:41  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> The !signalgap was due to a junction
17:48:41  <PublicServer> <mfb> ctrl, the magic button in OTTD
17:48:44  <PublicServer> *** Absolutis has joined company #1
17:49:08  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> Too magic unfortunately.  Does many contradictory things
17:49:54  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> So the stopping at a junction thing forces you to look at the spacing there
17:50:00  <PublicServer> *** Absolutis has left the game (leaving)
17:50:38  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> Speaking of, do you remember what was wrong with MSH 04?
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17:50:52  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> more like forces you to think what signals you want at the junction
17:51:02  <PublicServer> <mfb> well, a lot of signal gaps
17:51:05  <PublicServer> <mfb> mainly at junctions
17:51:27  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> Hrm.  I don't remember any at the junctions
17:51:34  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> The bridges were spaced a little odd
17:52:19  <PublicServer> <mfb> no idea which signals I added
17:52:26  <PublicServer> <mfb> but it was this style usually
17:52:29  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> hrm
17:53:12  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> Well it's the original 2 lines so it must have been me
17:53:26  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> Unless someone went and resignaled, but I doubt t hat
17:54:25  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> The station itself has survived amazingly well
17:54:28  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> resignalling is a b*tch
17:55:07  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> Could use larger exit bays, heh
17:56:35  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> wasn't me :D
17:56:46  <PublicServer> <mfb> spock? ivan? :D
17:57:04  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> who? where?
18:00:02  *** Ryton has joined #openttdcoop
18:00:14  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> didn't even backlog onto the mainline.. which is why it's survived lol
18:01:04  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> less is more, hehe
18:02:06  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> most of the time, it is
18:05:27  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> pretty :)
18:06:17  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> @BBH02 someone used intermediate signals in the selectors there
18:06:44  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> traffic is flowing better since i removed those
18:08:30  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> I know the PF treats them specially with our settings
18:10:58  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> Also someone used a PBS signal there wich broke the selector
18:11:06  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> heh
18:12:14  <AdmSpock> ah, dinner's ready :P
18:12:42  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> Is adding more trains okay?
18:12:53  *** Absolutis has quit IRC
18:15:34  <mfb-> I think we have some jams or nearly-jams to fix first
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18:22:04  <Firestar> !password
18:22:04  <PublicServer> Firestar: snaked
18:22:10  <Firestar> !players
18:22:12  <PublicServer> Firestar: Client 2598 (Orange) is Adm.Spock, in company 1 (Trunington Transport)
18:22:12  <PublicServer> Firestar: Client 2568 (Orange) is mfb, in company 1 (Trunington Transport)
18:22:12  <PublicServer> Firestar: Client 2610 (Orange) is Ivan_M, in company 1 (Trunington Transport)
18:22:12  <PublicServer> Firestar: Client 2581 is Maraxus, a spectator
18:22:12  <PublicServer> Firestar: Client 2617 (Orange) is Rhamphoryncus, in company 1 (Trunington Transport)
18:22:28  <Firestar> hi
18:22:32  <PublicServer> *** Firestar joined the game
18:22:37  <PublicServer> <mfb> hi
18:23:42  <mfb-> @gap 6
18:23:43  <Webster> mfb-: For Trainlength of 6: <= 12 needs 2, 13 - 20 needs 3, 21 - 28 needs 4.
18:32:06  <PublicServer> *** Rhamphoryncus has left the game (leaving)
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18:56:32  <PublicServer> <mfb> wtf train 986
18:57:14  <PublicServer> *** Ivan_M has left the game (leaving)
19:08:02  <Tray> !password
19:08:02  <PublicServer> Tray: upbeat
19:08:31  <PublicServer> *** Tray joined the game
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19:25:50  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> Hmm, I had an oops
19:26:50  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> Crashed trains have clones, already now
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19:31:04  <PublicServer> <mfb> what happened to the 3rd from west at BBH03?
19:31:42  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> other than it is not finished yet?
19:32:59  <PublicServer> <mfb> and I do not see anything happening, right
19:36:42  <V453000> !password
19:36:42  <PublicServer> V453000: quench
19:37:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> hi
19:37:03  <PublicServer> *** V453000 joined the game
19:37:08  <PublicServer> <mfb> hi
19:37:10  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> hi V
19:37:41  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> SLH06 is slightly unjammed comming from north
19:38:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> uh
19:38:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> revolutionary experiments inc. at wood exit? :D
19:38:33  <PublicServer> <Tray> there is a problem at slh 08 wich caused a deadlock
19:38:35  <PublicServer> <mfb> no idea
19:39:01  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> goinh to north there still is a jamm from SLH06
19:39:37  <PublicServer> <mfb> big ML jams near BBH04?
19:42:08  <PublicServer> <V453000> it seems like the trains refuse to choose the rightmost track at SLH08 for no reason
19:42:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> I forced train 954 to choose it
19:42:24  <PublicServer> <V453000> and seems like its fine
19:42:32  <PublicServer> *** Ivan_M joined the game
19:42:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> so 2ways solve it pretty much
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19:52:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> gnight
19:52:14  <PublicServer> *** V453000 has left the game (leaving)
19:56:47  <PublicServer> <mfb> oh
19:57:06  <PublicServer> <mfb> I see that my comment at BBH05 is related to SLH08
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20:04:29  <PublicServer> <mfb> shorter prio there?
20:05:46  <AdmSpock> no remove that deadlock piece
20:05:54  <PublicServer> <mfb> this is not a deadlock
20:06:02  <PublicServer> <mfb> just a full line
20:06:28  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm
20:06:39  <PublicServer> <mfb> actually it is really 100% full
20:06:45  <PublicServer> <mfb> ok
20:06:59  <AdmSpock> see my point?
20:07:28  <AdmSpock> best not to let trains go to the left track there, but keep 'm on the middle
20:08:27  <AdmSpock> or hack another solution in of course ;-)
20:08:39  <PublicServer> <mfb> see empty line
20:12:07  *** DrSpangle has joined #openttdcoop
20:12:33  <PublicServer> <mfb> ?
20:12:39  <PublicServer> <mfb> ah
20:14:12  *** DrSpangle has quit IRC
20:16:50  <PublicServer> <mfb> CL :/
20:18:06  <PublicServer> <mfb> that does not work :p
20:19:24  <PublicServer> <mfb> what is that?
20:19:27  <PublicServer> <mfb> that is too short
20:19:44  <PublicServer> <mfb> no
20:19:45  <PublicServer> <mfb> leave that
20:21:07  <PublicServer> <mfb> what are you doing?
20:21:30  <AdmSpock> a little rstructuring
20:21:44  <PublicServer> <mfb> but the current system is working fine
20:22:34  <PublicServer> <mfb> now you add bad gaps everywhere
20:23:12  <PublicServer> <mfb> I think there was more in the old system than you suspect ;)
20:23:20  <AdmSpock> those gaps will be gone when i'm finished
20:23:25  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm
20:23:31  <PublicServer> <mfb> well, feel free to try
20:26:56  <PublicServer> *** XeryusTC joined the game
20:27:08  <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> hey
20:27:10  <PublicServer> <mfb> hi
20:27:24  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> hi
20:29:05  <AdmSpock> done
20:29:18  <AdmSpock> and, most important, properly signalled
20:29:46  <PublicServer> *** XeryusTC has left the game (leaving)
20:30:02  <PublicServer> <mfb> the old system was much better
20:30:40  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> sure, execpt this balances the load too
20:30:50  <PublicServer> <mfb> which the old system did as well
20:31:32  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm
20:31:38  <PublicServer> <mfb> let's do something in between
20:32:34  <PublicServer> <mfb> proper waiting bays everywhere
20:32:40  <PublicServer> <mfb> no CL1
20:41:15  <PublicServer> *** Ivan_M has left the game (general timeout)
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20:43:16  <PublicServer> <mfb> any idea how to pull the 3rd line from S through MSH05?
20:43:46  <PublicServer> <mfb> without going around the whole thing
20:48:24  <PublicServer> <mfb> jbs is not the problem
20:48:31  <PublicServer> <mfb> nearly no trains split there anyway
20:48:39  <PublicServer> <mfb> @ the sign at MSH05
20:49:33  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> first make some room by shifting some tracks?
20:49:47  <PublicServer> <tneo> oh helle  Adm.Spock :-)
20:50:13  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> Hello tneo :-)
20:50:41  <PublicServer> <mfb> this area needed more s-bends
20:50:51  <PublicServer> <tneo> uhuh
20:51:37  <PublicServer> <tneo> now your making a bypass?
20:51:43  <PublicServer> <mfb> right
20:52:01  <PublicServer> <mfb> well
20:52:03  <PublicServer> <mfb> a 3rd line
20:52:39  <PublicServer> <tneo> the msh and slh should be rebuild
20:53:02  <PublicServer> <mfb> feel free to
21:06:33  <PublicServer> <mfb> lol
21:06:36  <PublicServer> <mfb> train 77
21:07:14  <PublicServer> <tneo> blocker
21:07:16  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> Very fast indeed :P
21:08:40  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> Not enough traction :P
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21:52:50  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> hmmm, someone used non electrified rails....
21:58:00  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> Ah, got it
22:17:11  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> gn
22:17:25  <PublicServer> <mfb> good night
22:17:27  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> gn, maraxus
22:17:35  <PublicServer> *** Maraxus has left the game (leaving)
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22:18:35  <PublicServer> <mfb> oh, "hi farm"-farm is gone
22:21:01  *** Ivan_M has quit IRC
22:26:35  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> mfb: still tinkering with the track somewhere?
22:26:45  <PublicServer> <mfb> which track?
22:28:23  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> must have been my imagination then...
22:28:33  <PublicServer> <mfb> at MSH02 some tiles just do not fit like I would prefer
22:28:45  <PublicServer> <mfb> but the current solution is acceptable
22:29:11  <PublicServer> <mfb> and BBH03 has a proper merge towards south now
22:29:53  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> what part of MSH02 doesn't fit?
22:30:35  <PublicServer> <mfb> see signs :D
22:30:42  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> ah, there
22:31:00  <PublicServer> <mfb> a bridge to "to here" would be nice
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22:31:11  <PublicServer> <mfb> but then I don't get an entry signal between bridge and ML
22:31:26  <PublicServer> <mfb> or the other bridge does not fit in
22:32:42  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm
22:32:52  <PublicServer> <mfb> maybe this works
22:34:19  <PublicServer> <mfb> no
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22:36:19  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> well, no jamms occur there, just leave it ;-)
22:36:25  <PublicServer> <mfb> :p
22:39:15  <PublicServer> <mfb> that is the solution!
22:39:37  <AdmSpock> i think most jamms were caused by accidental use of non-electric track
22:40:39  <PublicServer> <mfb> that would be bad
22:41:20  <AdmSpock> well, i converted the last 75 pieces, after wich jamming ceased
22:41:44  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm
22:42:20  <AdmSpock> some hubs had non-el lanes....
22:42:28  <PublicServer> <mfb> great...
22:43:07  <AdmSpock> mistake easily made with catanary set invisible
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22:48:17  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> main issue with wrong track was between snake nest BBH and SLH 13
22:49:00  <PublicServer> <mfb> interesting beginning of 4th there :D
22:49:35  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> indeed, but superfluous :P
22:50:16  <Rhamphoryncus> !password
22:50:16  <PublicServer> Rhamphoryncus: beaked
22:50:26  <PublicServer> *** Rhamphoryncus joined the game
22:50:34  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> All that talking, making me curious, it's evil ;)
22:50:36  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
22:50:44  <PublicServer> <mfb> :D
22:51:26  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> talking? there is no talk going on here! ;-P
22:51:48  <PublicServer> <mfb> serious business
22:52:08  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> I'm hiding from the nml
22:52:22  <PublicServer> <Adm.Spock> nml?
22:52:45  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> something something something.  Used to make grf's
22:53:55  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> err
22:54:13  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> train 874 is inside SL 06, but looking for SLH06 IN?
22:54:15  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> someone forget a WP? ;)
22:54:26  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> hrm
22:55:00  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> orr got the reversed
22:56:12  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> Wonder how long that's been there
22:57:27  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> oh look, it's using the trap at cudingbury heights
22:57:49  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> and another train is
22:58:19  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> Train 167 from SL06 is in SL15
22:59:01  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> and train 164 has non-non-stop orders
22:59:29  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> it's going to SLH06 too, but is on SLH15
23:00:44  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> okay, there's a LOT of lost trains here.  I have no idea why
23:01:54  <PublicServer> <Rhamphoryncus> And the game is bogging.  I bet my sister is downloading >.>
23:03:04  <AdmSpock> don't you use QoS on your router? :P
23:03:33  <Rhamphoryncus> It's a telus POS
23:05:11  <PublicServer> *** Adm.Spock has left the game (leaving)
23:05:30  <AdmSpock> nu support for QoS?
23:05:34  <AdmSpock> *no
23:07:52  <Rhamphoryncus> Not that I can find
23:08:33  *** Mazur has quit IRC
23:08:56  <Rhamphoryncus> I've been through it many times
23:12:00  <PublicServer> *** Rhamphoryncus has left the game (leaving)
23:12:00  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players)
23:12:11  <AdmSpock> <- got this model from my ISP xs4all :P
23:12:12  <Webster> Title: AVM - FRITZ!Box 7390 (at
23:13:11  * Rhamphoryncus nods
23:13:44  <PublicServer> <mfb> good night
23:13:50  <AdmSpock> gn mfb
23:13:57  <PublicServer> *** mfb has left the game (leaving)
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23:14:13  <AdmSpock> includes IPv6 support
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