Log for #openttdcoop on 9th July 2013:
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01:50:28  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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07:58:24  <Dom_> !password
07:58:24  <PublicServer> Dom_: crowns
07:59:14  <Dom_> !download osx
07:59:14  <PublicServer> Dom_:
08:01:22  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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08:47:07  <Firestar> !dl
08:47:07  <PublicServer> Firestar: !dl autostart|autottd|lin|lin64|osx|ottdau|source|win32|win64|win9x
08:47:07  <PublicServer> Firestar:
08:48:39  <Firestar> !password
08:48:39  <PublicServer> Firestar: crowns
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16:48:05  <V453000> !password
16:48:05  <PublicServer> V453000: crowns
16:49:23  <V453000> !dl win64
16:49:24  <PublicServer> V453000:
16:51:12  *** dwarf has joined #openttdcoop
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16:52:29  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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16:52:42  <PublicServer> *** V453000 has left the game (leaving)
16:54:52  <V453000> !content
16:54:53  <PublicServer> V453000: [Content] Connection established
16:54:53  <PublicServer> V453000: [Content] Downloading 0 file(s) (0 bytes)
16:54:53  <PublicServer> V453000: [Content] Nothing to download
16:54:59  <V453000> !content
16:55:01  <PublicServer> V453000: [Content Update] Expect timeout triggered!
16:55:03  <PublicServer> V453000: [Content] All 0 downloaded
16:55:03  <PublicServer> V453000: [Content] (you need to rescan(ai|game|newgrf) to have the new content loaded)
16:55:05  <Webster> Read the Quickstart - #openttdcoop Wiki - (again, try !grf)
16:55:06  <V453000> !content
16:55:09  <PublicServer> V453000: [Content Update] Expect timeout triggered!
16:55:09  <PublicServer> V453000: [Content] Downloading 0 file(s) (0 bytes)
16:55:09  <PublicServer> V453000: [Content] Nothing to download
16:55:11  <V453000> !content
16:55:13  <PublicServer> V453000: [Content Update] Expect timeout triggered!
16:55:13  <PublicServer> V453000: [Content] Completed download of 2750
16:55:17  <PublicServer> V453000: [Content] Downloading 3 file(s) (5675800 bytes)
16:55:19  <PublicServer> V453000: [Content] Completed download of 2751
16:55:19  <PublicServer> V453000: [Content] Completed download of 2748
16:55:21  <PublicServer> V453000: [Content] All 3 downloaded
16:55:21  <PublicServer> V453000: [Content] (you need to rescan(ai|game|newgrf) to have the new content loaded)
16:55:23  <Webster> Read the Quickstart - #openttdcoop Wiki - (again, try !grf)
16:55:27  <V453000> !restart
16:55:28  <PublicServer> V453000: Restart scheduled, will be initiated in next minute!
16:56:18  <PublicServer> Scheduled quit for automated maintenance... will be back shortely
16:56:18  <PublicServer> Thank you for playing r25575.
16:56:22  <PublicServer> Server has exited
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16:57:02  <PublicServer> Autopilot engaged
16:57:02  <PublicServer> Loading savegame: '{#openttdcoop} - The Public Server ('
16:57:02  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v PublicServer
16:57:02  *** Webster changes topic to "Cooperative OpenTTD | PSG262 (r25575) | STAGE: Building | New players, use @quickstart and !help |"
16:57:27  <V453000> !getsave
16:57:30  <PublicServer> V453000: OK :-)
16:57:34  <V453000> !rcon cd 3
16:57:36  <V453000> !rcon load 2
16:57:55  <PublicServer> V453000: dbg: [net] [udp] closed listeners
16:57:55  <PublicServer> V453000: dbg: [net] [udp] initializing listeners
16:57:55  <PublicServer> V453000: dbg: [net] [udp] closed listeners
16:57:55  <PublicServer> V453000: dbg: [net] [udp] initializing listeners
16:57:55  <PublicServer> V453000: dbg: [net] [tcp] listening on IPv4 port (IPv4)
16:57:55  <PublicServer> V453000: dbg: [net] [tcp] listening on IPv4 port (IPv4)
16:57:55  <PublicServer> V453000: dbg: [net] [udp] listening on IPv4 port (IPv4)
16:57:57  <PublicServer> V453000: dbg: [net] [udp] advertising to master server
16:57:57  <PublicServer> V453000: dbg: [net] [udp] listening on IPv4 port (IPv4)
16:57:59  <PublicServer> V453000: dbg: [net] [udp] received new session key from master server (IPv4)
16:57:59  <PublicServer> V453000: you have 4 more messages
16:58:01  <PublicServer> V453000: ‎*** Game paused (number of players)
16:58:01  <PublicServer> V453000: Current/maximum clients:     0/255
16:58:03  <PublicServer> V453000: Current/maximum companies:   1/ 1
16:58:03  <PublicServer> V453000: Current/maximum spectators:  0/10
16:58:05  <PublicServer> V453000: dbg: [net] [udp] closed listeners
16:58:05  <PublicServer> V453000: dbg: [net] [udp] initializing listeners
16:58:07  <V453000> !info
16:58:07  <PublicServer> V453000: dbg: [net] [udp] closed listeners
16:58:07  <PublicServer> V453000: dbg: [net] [udp] initializing listeners
16:58:09  <PublicServer> V453000: dbg: [net] [tcp] listening on IPv4 port (IPv4)
16:58:09  <PublicServer> V453000: dbg: [net] [tcp] listening on IPv4 port (IPv4)
16:58:11  <PublicServer> V453000: you have 8 more messages
16:58:11  <PublicServer> V453000: ‎*** Game still paused (manual, number of players)
16:58:13  <PublicServer> V453000: #:1(Orange) Company Name: 'PSG262 Transport'  Year Founded: 2050  Money: 3901259278  Loan: 0  Value: 3903901927  (T:666, R:0, P:0, S:0) unprotected
16:58:22  <V453000> !date
16:58:23  <PublicServer> V453000: 18 Oct 2287
16:58:29  <V453000> !restart
16:58:29  <PublicServer> V453000: Restart scheduled, will be initiated in next minute!
16:59:18  <PublicServer> Scheduled quit for automated maintenance... will be back shortely
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19:07:59  <ZxBiohazardZx> !players
19:08:02  <PublicServer> ZxBiohazardZx: There are currently no clients connected to the server
19:08:10  <ZxBiohazardZx> dewut
19:08:26  <ZxBiohazardZx> !password
19:08:27  <PublicServer> ZxBiohazardZx: stitch
19:09:54  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (manual, number of players)
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20:23:48  <Stevetrov> !password
20:23:49  <PublicServer> Stevetrov: cringe
20:24:04  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (manual, number of players)
20:24:05  <PublicServer> *** stevetrov joined the game
20:25:51  <Stevetrov> Is this game dead?
20:26:38  <fonsinchen> !password
20:26:38  <PublicServer> fonsinchen: cringe
20:26:59  <PublicServer> *** fonso joined the game
20:27:45  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> manual paused?
20:28:02  <ZxBiohazardZx> V453000 whats up with that?
20:28:03  <PublicServer> <fonso> weird
20:28:06  <PublicServer> <stevetrov> whats that all about,
20:28:15  <ZxBiohazardZx> some of the admins manual paused it but didnt resume it (yet)
20:29:46  <Stevetrov> not seen anyone in this game since the weekend
20:30:49  <PublicServer> *** stevetrov has left the game (leaving)
20:30:49  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (manual, number of players)
20:31:36  <planetmaker> !auto
20:31:37  <PublicServer> *** planetmaker has enabled autopause mode.
20:31:37  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
20:31:49  <PublicServer> *** fonso has joined company #1
20:31:49  <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
20:31:54  <PublicServer> <fonso> yeah
20:32:02  <planetmaker> I think anyone can call !auto
20:32:58  <PublicServer> <fonso> one of the trains at sauda transfer is carrying goods
20:33:20  <PublicServer> <fonso> skipping to refit
20:33:54  <PublicServer> <fonso> same at solstua north
20:34:08  <PublicServer> <fonso> could there be a problem with the orders somewhere?
20:35:32  <Stevetrov> !password
20:35:32  <PublicServer> Stevetrov: spokes
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20:36:27  <ZxBiohazardZx> ah ok thx planet
20:36:34  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> didnt know
20:37:06  <PublicServer> <fonso> the link graph is a nice tool to check the orders ...
20:37:45  <PublicServer> <fonso> if you look at the ore graph you see a problem in the orders for Follhella Mines (which I just fixed)
20:39:51  <PublicServer> *** stevetrov has joined company #1
20:40:08  <PublicServer> <fonso> It seems my fix is effective: No stray links anymore
20:41:02  <PublicServer> <stevetrov> fix
20:41:20  <PublicServer> <fonso> The one I committed on saturday
20:41:24  <PublicServer> <stevetrov> fixed a signal problem outside 01, things should improve now
20:43:16  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> still wondering where jam is :P
20:43:23  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> 01?
20:43:34  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> bbh is wip and slh is too :P
20:43:46  <PublicServer> <stevetrov> its cleared already, some signals pointed in the wrong direction
20:43:48  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> though rebuild was going pretty ok so far
20:44:15  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> 2 mergers  1 3rd lane and better flow :P
20:46:33  <PublicServer> *** ZxBiohazardZx has joined spectators
20:50:26  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> hmmz
20:51:54  <PublicServer> *** fonso has joined spectators
20:51:54  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players)
20:53:10  <PublicServer> <fonso> It might be better to have the "DROP" trains only go half the way around the map in each direction and in turn skip the conditional return orders
20:53:28  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> no
20:53:31  <PublicServer> <fonso> That would make the orders decidable and avoid unnecessary transfer and reload
20:53:33  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> conditioals are fine
20:53:35  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> its cargodist
20:54:10  <PublicServer> <fonso> The orders are undecidable. At each stop the train can decide to transfer all its cargo and return to the primary or keep its cargo and go on
20:54:28  <PublicServer> *** stevetrov has joined spectators
20:54:32  <PublicServer> <fonso> So they constantly throw dice and randomly transfer and reload
20:54:42  <PublicServer> <fonso> That could be avoided
20:55:48  <fonsinchen> It would reduce the delay at the drop stations.
20:56:54  <fonsinchen> And additionally it's not really necessary to go all the way around the map if you have trains going both ways.
20:57:29  <PublicServer> *** stevetrov has left the game (leaving)
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21:10:59  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> no its not a choice
21:11:06  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> the cargo has a destination thus WANTS to be there
21:11:15  <fonsinchen> wrong
21:11:26  <fonsinchen> the cargo does not have a destination
21:11:39  <fonsinchen> That's why it's called "distribution", not "destinations"
21:12:06  <fonsinchen> The cargo is redistributed at each station
21:12:24  <fonsinchen> and each train has to decide which cargo to load and unload
21:12:51  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> fair enough
21:13:09  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> still the cargo is disted on main VIA options
21:13:10  <fonsinchen> if the train has two alternatives on where to go, depending on which cargo it unloads, it can't quite decide what to do
21:13:14  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> so works like SRNW
21:14:07  <gnemonix> so in other words, if cargo destined for B makes a stop at A first, it could get "re-routed" for C?
21:14:43  <fonsinchen> gnemonix: yes, because it didn't know it was going to B in the first place
21:14:53  <fonsinchen> it only knew it was going via A
21:16:03  <fonsinchen> And what you see in those drop stations is two things interacting: 1. the distribution of cargo with "via" options and 2. The trains deciding where to go based on load percentage
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21:16:58  <gnemonix> ok, then what's with the multi-destination listing in the station window? Is it a simulation?
21:17:17  <fonsinchen> gnemonix: yes, an estimation
21:17:44  <fonsinchen> While the trains are loading and unloading they don't know if they'll end up empty or not. So they can't say where they are going next. Thus they just randomly load stuff for either of the options.
21:18:18  <fonsinchen> Most of the time they do end up with some cargo left, but the process takes more time than it would if the orders were decidable.
21:19:25  <gnemonix> seems to me that the cargodist devs made it more complex than needed
21:19:43  <fonsinchen> No, it's simpler than any of the previous attempts
21:20:29  <fonsinchen> Routing each single cargo packet end-to-end is a pain.
21:20:45  <fonsinchen> That's why I decided to do it like that.
21:21:29  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> hence the orders should not be load-based but just load -> abcde load fghij ?
21:21:35  <gnemonix> ah, is cargodist your project?
21:21:42  <fonsinchen> yes, and yes.
21:26:09  <ZxBiohazardZx> i knew it fonsinchen, it also explains some issues me and jam found earlier :P
21:29:31  <fonsinchen> What issues were those?
21:34:38  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> w
21:34:44  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> mostly weird routings
21:34:44  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> :P
21:35:00  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> shit got moved from 06 to 07 and back :P
21:37:58  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> or so
21:38:00  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> cant remember exact
21:38:10  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> but yeah remove the if 0 then jump order and its fine hten fons?
21:40:28  <fonsinchen> It will reduce the amount of loading and unloading
21:40:52  <fonsinchen> However, there shouldn't be any cycles in the link graph
21:40:59  <fonsinchen> if there are, it's a bug
21:41:10  <fonsinchen> I'm checking the plans right now
21:41:52  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> nah its not we had a bad order somewhere i think
21:42:06  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> but yeah just removing the if load% = 0 should make it ok>
21:42:49  <fonsinchen> It might be a bit confusing that goods from printing works are moving from 07 to 06 while goods from factory and oil refinery are moving from 06 to 07
21:42:55  <fonsinchen> That is not a cycle, though.
21:43:31  <fonsinchen> And it's quite logical, given the graph topology.
21:43:55  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> yeah
21:44:05  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> but orderwise: remove the if load% = 0 should fix stuff?
21:44:15  <PublicServer> <fonso> yes
21:44:15  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> and/or affect it majorly?
21:44:17  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> kk
21:44:23  <PublicServer> *** ZxBiohazardZx has joined company #1
21:45:03  <PublicServer> <fonso> You should make trains only go half the way around the map in each direction, too
21:45:10  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> thats ALOT of re-ordering :P
21:45:12  <PublicServer> <fonso> otherwise they'll be empty very often
21:45:48  <PublicServer> *** fonso has joined company #1
21:45:49  <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
21:45:50  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> they already go half half afaik
21:45:57  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> but reordering all trains will be a pain
21:46:23  <PublicServer> <fonso> the food trains go all the way around
21:46:26  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> specially since deleting the "jumps" is bitchy clicking
21:47:24  <PublicServer> <fonso> at least some of the goods trains also go all the way
21:47:39  <PublicServer> <fonso> I can help you with the clicking
21:48:05  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> go go remove all "if load% = 0 jump orders :p
21:48:15  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> each station has a seperate list, so thats taking a while
21:48:46  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> im on SLH08 atm :P
21:49:00  <PublicServer> <fonso> I'm doing the factory
21:50:40  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> fons wont this btw create issues with pathing
21:51:02  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> aka we now simply force them to follow all the SLH's making the "through" options on SLH and BBH rather pointless
21:51:17  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> as this effectively creates a "through" mainline chain
21:51:28  <PublicServer> <fonso> true
21:51:43  <PublicServer> <fonso> let's see if it works
21:52:56  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> mainly for fonsinchen or wait is that you :P
21:52:58  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> nvm
21:55:04  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> anyway gotta go :(
21:55:08  <PublicServer> *** ZxBiohazardZx has left the game (leaving)
21:55:08  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players)
21:55:32  <PublicServer> <fonso> so I'm supposed to change all the orders alone now?
21:55:34  <PublicServer> <fonso> gah
21:58:52  <ZxBiohazardZx> nah let them be and just document the shit on wiki and explain why its bad
21:59:23  <ZxBiohazardZx> though again it will create a "through" chain for the SL's that might not be intended network-wise
21:59:42  <PublicServer> <fonso> OK, I'll stop it
21:59:48  <PublicServer> <fonso> I have changed some orders, though
21:59:55  <PublicServer> *** fonso has left the game (leaving)
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22:01:21  <PublicServer> *** blahblahblah joined the game
22:01:22  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
22:04:47  <PublicServer> *** blahblahblah has left the game (leaving)
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22:16:13  <PublicServer> Autopilot engaged
22:16:13  <PublicServer> Loading savegame: '{#openttdcoop} - The Public Server ('
22:16:13  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v PublicServer
22:16:13  *** Webster changes topic to "Cooperative OpenTTD | PSG262 (r25575) | STAGE: Building | New players, use @quickstart and !help |"
22:23:47  <fonsinchen>
22:24:01  <fonsinchen> I've given our nice order system as example there
22:26:57  *** thequux has joined #openttdcoop
22:27:19  <thequux> !password
22:27:20  <PublicServer> thequux: whinny
22:30:42  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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23:43:29  <Dom_> !playercount
23:43:29  <PublicServer> Dom_: Number of players: 0 (0 spectators)
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