Log for #openttdcoop on 17th July 2013:
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02:52:23  <scshunt> !password
02:52:23  <PublicServer> scshunt: sprain
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03:03:41  <scshunt> Is anyone willing to join/turn off autopause to let me build a plan?
03:07:08  <Sylf> ok
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03:12:37  <PublicServer> <scshunt> thanks
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03:17:05  <scshunt> Sylf: what's the correct way to label a plan? I have details to fill in but want to get that down
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03:21:31  <PublicServer> <scshunt> Any comments/missing things?
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03:24:59  <PublicServer> <Sylf> which engine for the ML?
03:25:10  <PublicServer> <scshunt> I don't know enough about engines. What sounds good?
03:25:17  <PublicServer> <Sylf> and why dictate the feeder system so much?
03:25:39  <PublicServer> <scshunt> Why's that dictating the feeder system too much?
03:25:39  <PublicServer> <Sylf> For TL5, you have lots of different options.
03:26:17  <PublicServer> <Sylf> For TL5, you can have Duke NUT'em for CL3, or medium rail for nice train network
03:26:27  <PublicServer> <Sylf> cameleon for something weird
03:26:37  <PublicServer> <Sylf> Not slugs though, since we just did that
03:26:51  <PublicServer> <Sylf> brainmelt is another weird good one
03:27:01  <PublicServer> <Sylf> actually, I like any monorail ones
03:27:21  <PublicServer> <Sylf> actually, not medium monorail... not too much to my liking
03:28:12  <PublicServer> <Sylf> Full CL5 building shouldn't be too difficult with this map, especially for not having SLHs
03:28:34  <PublicServer> <Sylf> We still need transfer station hubs
03:28:49  <PublicServer> <Sylf> Now, back to the topic of the feeders
03:29:11  <PublicServer> <scshunt> Yeah, I would like a CL5
03:29:11  <PublicServer> <Sylf> Because each feeder systems are independent of each other, you can leave those to each builders
03:29:25  <PublicServer> <Sylf> including choice of locos, style, etc.
03:29:35  <PublicServer> <scshunt> Ah, I see!
03:29:49  <PublicServer> <Sylf> They can build TL1, TL2, TL3, mono, maglev, srnw, sub-feeders
03:30:15  <PublicServer> <Sylf> I was looking for the last feeder game we had
03:30:30  <PublicServer> <scshunt> would doing fast trains on the MLs be poor?
03:31:20  <PublicServer> <Sylf> Prorably not a good idea with TL5
03:31:38  <PublicServer> <scshunt> Due to acceleration gaps when joining?
03:32:12  <PublicServer> <Sylf> You can add more locos to compensate for that.
03:32:38  <PublicServer> <Sylf> But I think it makes more sense to do fast monorail than fast rail
03:32:45  <PublicServer> <scshunt> yeah, I was looking at fast monorail
03:33:03  <PublicServer> <Sylf> fast monorail has the nice feature of additional power for each added wagons
03:33:22  <PublicServer> <Sylf> TL5 is a bit short for it, but it'll work okay.
03:33:32  <PublicServer> <scshunt> hmm, maybe 6?
03:33:38  <PublicServer> <scshunt> I just pulled a number out of a hat :)
03:33:48  <PublicServer> <Sylf> I hate anything beyond CL5
03:33:58  <PublicServer> <scshunt> fair enough
03:34:16  <PublicServer> <scshunt> 2 engines + 8 wagons?
03:34:20  <PublicServer> <Sylf> also, 4-way BBH is a bad idea
03:34:38  <PublicServer> <scshunt> Oh, it's not intended to be one
03:37:00  <PublicServer> <scshunt> Any more comments?
03:37:42  <PublicServer> <Sylf> how does the factory station work?
03:37:53  <PublicServer> <scshunt> ah, good point
03:40:22  <PublicServer> <Sylf> can trains go through the station from any side to any side?
03:40:56  <PublicServer> <scshunt> built a closeup off to the side
03:41:06  <PublicServer> <Sylf> I still don't get it.
03:41:40  <PublicServer> <scshunt> so trains can get around the station
03:41:42  <PublicServer> <Sylf> for North-South line, you want trains come from South, and exit to North.
03:41:57  <PublicServer> <Sylf> wait
03:42:23  <PublicServer> <Sylf> You want to build a one-way ro-ro station
03:42:25  <PublicServer> <scshunt> yeah
03:42:35  <PublicServer> <scshunt> oh wait, duh
03:42:36  <PublicServer> <Sylf> and trains can come from any direction and exit to any direction?
03:42:37  <PublicServer> <scshunt> this doesn't work at all
03:42:51  <PublicServer> <scshunt> I was forgetting that some trains are just dropping things off :P
03:43:06  <PublicServer> <scshunt> thinking all trains were trying to leave to the goods drop
03:44:22  <PublicServer> <Sylf> simplest would be to move factory to next to FPP
03:44:35  <PublicServer> <scshunt> yeah, I know, but thinking of interesting other options
03:45:27  <PublicServer> <Sylf> That'll probably give people wrong idea
03:46:06  <PublicServer> <Sylf> so, you want a factory in the middle of the map, and trains enter for all 4 directions, and exit to all 4 directions.
03:46:12  <PublicServer> <scshunt> yeah
03:46:14  <PublicServer> <Sylf> That's all you need to say.
03:46:24  <PublicServer> <scshunt> aw but this is more fun :P
03:46:27  <PublicServer> <Sylf> Leave the actual design detail to the builder
03:46:33  <PublicServer> <scshunt> ok
03:46:53  <PublicServer> <scshunt> wouldn't something like a 1way ML normally be in the plan though?
03:47:23  <PublicServer> <Sylf> That depends what you want in the network plan.
03:47:47  <PublicServer> <Sylf> Can trains from paper mill to print works go through the center section, only going around the factory?
03:47:53  <PublicServer> <scshunt> yes
03:47:55  <PublicServer> <scshunt> that I do want
03:48:10  <PublicServer> <scshunt> and I can leave it like this, but then it will probably be some boring
03:48:16  <PublicServer> <scshunt> collection of BBHs and a MSH :P
03:48:46  <PublicServer> <Sylf> but if you do that, it doesn't make much sense to have 4 entries to the factory
03:49:01  <PublicServer> <scshunt> well I wouldn't; it would have 2
03:49:07  <PublicServer> <scshunt> and 2 exist
03:49:09  <PublicServer> <scshunt> *exits
03:49:19  <PublicServer> <scshunt> hmm actually I'm thinking something crazier now
03:49:38  <PublicServer> <Sylf> keep that part of the plan simple as possible
03:49:40  <PublicServer> <scshunt> ..nah, I'll save it for another gam
03:49:42  <PublicServer> <scshunt> *game
03:49:44  <PublicServer> <scshunt> this is good
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04:05:04  <Anson> hallo. is thid map with purr?
04:06:23  <Anson> then you might want to have a look at a problem that i found... shoen at sign "!bad feature" on the welcome server
04:12:01  <PublicServer> <Sylf> hm.
04:12:08  <PublicServer> <Sylf> building while paused is enabled
04:13:45  <scshunt> oh
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04:27:24  <Sylf> scshunt, you can check out this game if you're interested in a feeder based network...
04:27:28  <Sylf>
04:30:24  <scshunt> cool
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06:22:04  <Stevetrov> !password
06:22:04  <PublicServer> Stevetrov: apiece
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06:48:21  <Stevetrov> submitted my first game plan, let me know what you thikn
06:48:26  <Stevetrov> *think
06:48:41  <Stevetrov> !unpause
06:48:41  <PublicServer> Stevetrov: you must be channel op to use !unpause
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08:57:40  <Maraxus> !password
08:57:40  <PublicServer> Maraxus: grouch
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11:33:04  <Stevetrov> !password
11:33:04  <PublicServer> Stevetrov: grouch
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15:28:20  <scshunt> !dl lin64
15:28:21  <PublicServer> scshunt:
15:29:50  <scshunt> ugh, NewGRFs missing. how do I get those?
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15:30:36  <Vinnie_nl> !password
15:30:36  <PublicServer> Vinnie_nl: grouch
15:30:39  <scshunt> including apparently "test file (13 jan 2006)"
15:30:43  <scshunt> where do I get that?!?
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15:30:54  <Vinnie_nl> !grf
15:30:54  <PublicServer> Vinnie_nl:
15:31:24  <scshunt> hmm, thanks
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15:34:28  <scshunt> Stevetrov: are you saying each {primary, secondary, (tertiary), town} will have a separate train?
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15:34:32  <scshunt> that seems like far too many trains to keep track of
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15:36:12  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> traffic goes trough your steelmill?
15:36:19  <Stevetrov> Yea there will be seperate trains for each industry and town. but bear in mind I am not suggesting that we transport the non food / goods
15:36:33  <PublicServer> <scshunt> Vinnie was that at me?
15:36:39  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> yes
15:36:49  <PublicServer> <scshunt> Vinnie: well connected by a hub
15:36:56  <PublicServer> <scshunt> I don't intend all trains to have to stop there
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15:38:11  <PublicServer> <scshunt> better?
15:38:34  <scshunt> Stevetrov: so only fruit/livestock/grain -> food -> towns?
15:38:35  <scshunt> err
15:38:38  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i understood once you answered
15:38:54  <scshunt> Yeah but the next guy might not, so I put signs in
15:39:00  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> oke
15:40:05  <Stevetrov> that would be for food, and then the equiv for goods. but no coal. diamonds. gold or water unless we decide to expand later
15:40:31  <scshunt> but we would use iron, rubber, steel, etc.?
15:40:36  <scshunt> and oil?
15:40:46  <scshunt> and wood/paper?
15:41:40  <Stevetrov> Yea thats the plan
15:43:37  <slaca> !password
15:43:37  <PublicServer> slaca: screwy
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15:45:04  <scshunt> Stevetrov: so if we connect every secondary and every primary and every town
15:45:26  <scshunt> having even one train per combination would be really difficult
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15:47:35  <Stevetrov> we would have one group per primary secondary and town and they would all go from the hub to their primary. secondary or town.
15:47:52  <Stevetrov> I will look at my signs and see whether i need to clarify
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15:48:57  <Stevetrov> does that make sense
15:49:00  <Stevetrov> ??
15:51:02  <scshunt> ah ok
15:51:07  <scshunt> but then why cargodist?
15:51:46  <Stevetrov> To make it so we have to transport goods from one side of the map to another, rather just to the local town.
15:52:03  <scshunt> but if all the trains leaving a given secondary are going to the same town, it won't matter
15:52:58  <Stevetrov> it goes, primary -> hub station -> secondary -> hub station -> hub station -> town
15:53:05  <scshunt> oohhhhh
15:53:15  <Stevetrov> so any primary can go to any secondary to any town
15:53:19  <scshunt> ok I get it now
15:53:35  <Stevetrov> woot I made sense.
15:59:52  <Stevetrov> BTW the scshunt you might want to update your plan to use purr.
16:00:12  <scshunt> seems like effort :P
16:05:58  <Stevetrov> lol
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16:09:14  <Stevetrov> hi vinnie
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16:43:45  <Jam35> !password
16:43:46  <PublicServer> Jam35: clutch
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18:12:17  <scshunt> !password
18:12:17  <PublicServer> scshunt: veered
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18:16:33  <Maraxus> !password
18:16:33  <PublicServer> Maraxus: veered
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18:21:40  <Vinnie_nl> anyone else want to make a plan?
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18:23:41  <scshunt> how long is planning usually open for?
18:24:30  <Stevetrov> and how long is voting open for ?
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18:27:15  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> both until they end
18:30:20  <scshunt> haha
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20:38:07  <scshunt> where do I report bugs in a GRF?
20:39:34  <V453000> which one
20:39:57  <scshunt> purr
20:40:06  <V453000> to me preferably
20:40:51  <scshunt> there are a few bugs with the display of reserved paths
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20:41:46  <scshunt> tunnels and bridges display reserved paths as standard tracks
20:41:58  <V453000> openttd bug, not newgrf
20:42:31  <scshunt> and on a hill in the \ direction, the reserved path is misaligned
20:43:22  <scshunt> also I assume it's also an openttd bug that the path does not reserve all the way to the end of a tunnel or bridge?
20:43:46  <V453000> I dont know what do you mean by that but it sounds like nonsense so far
20:43:59  <V453000> misalignment is know, will fix :)
20:44:03  <V453000> known*
20:44:09  <scshunt> if a train enters a bridge or tunnel
20:44:17  <scshunt> then it doesn't display the entire bridge/tunnel as reserved
20:44:27  <V453000> ah, thats possible
20:44:35  <V453000> the tunnel or bridge isnt technically a track
20:44:38  <scshunt> the last segment is not reserved until the train arrives at it
20:44:47  <scshunt> although the first segment remains reserved until the train moves onto the next block
20:45:07  <V453000> still, those are things how it works in openttd.
20:45:21  <V453000> I personally play without path reserving showing, most of the time
20:45:35  <scshunt> k, as long as that's an openttd thing, I can understand :)
20:46:31  <V453000> it is possible that sometime in the future it might be possible to fix or at least vastly improve
20:46:33  <V453000> so far, not
20:47:39  <scshunt> reserve is really a debugging tool anyway
20:48:07  <V453000> not exactly it is quite useful with pbs things
20:48:39  <scshunt> well I mean debugging networks
20:48:40  <V453000> but unless you build something more complicated on the reserving like SRNW stations, it is usually not necessary
20:48:46  <V453000> sure I understood
20:48:56  <V453000> but yeah, ok :)
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