Log for #openttdcoop on 28th August 2016:
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00:26:13  <coopserver> <Tromp> Hey maqifrnswa, are you busy?  Could you check this bridge area for me, please? :D
00:27:25  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> SURE WHERE ARE YOU?
00:27:29  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> sorry caps
00:28:04  <coopserver> <Tromp> I put a sign up, but I'm at the corner of the map ("left"-most; is that NW?)
00:30:50  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> i see the bridges tromp, look good - what was it like before?
00:31:13  <coopserver> <Tromp> Three bridges, with trains getting jammed up waiting
00:31:33  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> ahh, nice!
00:31:44  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> thanks
00:32:10  <coopserver> <Tromp> It flows a little smoother now, but there's still a hiccup every now and then
00:33:00  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> the network is a bit jammed at the moment, it seems to be clearing up - a train was stuck somewhere
00:33:14  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> in a few mins it should be back to normal
00:33:15  <coopserver> <Tromp> It could use one more tile, I think, but that would involve futzing around with this oil pickup station
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02:04:44  <coopserver> <Tromp> There's no grain at farms?  Only livestock?
02:07:15  <Sylf> some farms
02:07:38  <Sylf> That's OpenGFX+ Industries feature
02:07:45  <Tromp> As far as I can see, though, they only produce livestock, right?
02:07:53  <Tromp> Ah, okay.  That makes logistics a little easier!
02:08:16  <Sylf> I think there are two types of farms
02:08:33  <Sylf> !pw
02:08:33  <coopserver> Sylf: method
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02:09:47  <coopserver> <Tromp> I see Livestock and <invalid cargo> coming from farms
02:10:03  <coopserver> <Sylf> some farms produce livestocks only
02:10:12  <coopserver> <Sylf> others produce livestocks and invalid cargo
02:10:32  <coopserver> <Sylf> those two come from two incompatible industry sets
02:10:38  <Tromp> Gotcha. I am assuming we don't haul invalid cargo, then =p
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05:41:40  <Tromp> !password
05:41:40  <coopserver> Tromp: needed
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08:06:23  <coopserver> <Tromp> Hi there!
08:07:07  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> hi tromp
08:08:57  <coopserver> <Tromp> I'm working on this Grenfingway-on-sea station issue, but I think I'm out of my league here
08:09:52  <coopserver> <Tromp> I've never built an overflow before, and there are a lot of trains coming through
08:09:58  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> sure, what are you trying to solve?
08:10:14  <coopserver> <Tromp> I put a sign down: +Station Fixes?
08:11:52  <coopserver> <Tromp> The Wood pickup backs up more, as the forest doesn't produce fast enough to keep up with flow
08:12:53  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> there is a good write up on overflows on the wiki in the "advanced building revue" section
08:13:17  <coopserver> <Tromp> Oh!  I had forgotten about that!
08:13:27  <coopserver> <Tromp> I'll go read that real quick.
08:13:54  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> I think the stations that used to be there had some overflows that would send trains to a reverser if the tracks were full, then to a depot and wait for a track to free
08:14:31  <coopserver> <Tromp> Yep. This mess all started when I thought I could separate the Fruit/Rubber combo station that was a problem
08:14:38  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> you also can use  the ISR stations to visible show waiting cargo
08:15:01  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> the fruit rubber combo station was already removed, I believe
08:15:08  <coopserver> <Tromp> Ah!  I've never used ISR stations, either, so I didn't know what I was looking at
08:15:19  <coopserver> <Tromp> Oh no, really?
08:15:28  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> I deleted the old rubber station and sent it to a different station in the south
08:15:41  <coopserver> <Tromp> Awww, lol
08:15:42  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> no problem, this is how to learn how to do it!
08:15:59  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> I'll show an example of an overflow on the frenfing fruit stand
08:16:09  <coopserver> <Tromp> Well, I have the new stations set up so the rubber line you set up can feed into the other one!
08:17:47  <coopserver> <Tromp> Yep, that one, haha
08:20:57  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> this is different than how I usually make overflows
08:21:06  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> but you should get the idea
08:21:30  <coopserver> <Tromp> Aha!  I would have never thought trains behave that way.
08:21:36  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> we use two way end of lines
08:21:50  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> so if the next two way signal is red, it thinks it is the end of the line
08:22:06  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> if both platforms are red, it will go to the arrow looking track
08:22:32  <coopserver> <Tromp> Oh, I see!
08:22:41  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> because that the end of the arrow track has two or more choices, it thinks it is a legit path
08:22:52  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> but it hits the end and realizes it isn't, so it will turn around
08:23:38  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> that is a simple one, check out some of avreen's
08:24:20  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> when avreen does it, he also checks whether a train is incoming and only releases trains from the depot if tracks are free and no train is incoming
08:24:53  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> actually just look at the two stations in nomham, they check whether a train is incoming
08:24:57  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> and if a track is free
08:26:19  <coopserver> <Tromp> Oh, neat!  I think I see it!  Tough to wrap my head around, hah
08:26:26  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> also, depots have built in entrance signals, so they only will pop out if an exit signal is free
08:29:18  <coopserver> <Tromp> Sorry you have to fix my mistakes >.<
08:29:34  <coopserver> <Tromp> I saw "whole network jammed" and thought I could help
08:30:39  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> you can see the forest station working now
08:31:02  <coopserver> <Tromp> Aw, that's way better.  Thank you so much!
08:31:03  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> no problem, you got to see it working
08:31:31  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> and check out those extra station tiles, some are just for fun (pretty buildings)
08:31:59  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> and some have useful info by showing what cargo and how much is available
08:32:21  <coopserver> <Tromp> I know! I made a couple in a deserted spot to see what they were and loved the look
08:32:23  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> "ISR: Stations"
08:32:39  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> i didn't know about them until i played on this server too
08:32:52  <coopserver> <Tromp> Never used one, though, and I didn't want the station to fail while I was futzing around
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08:38:30  <coopserver> <Tromp> Too many trains on that line?
08:39:07  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> or not enough lines for the trains! ;-)
08:39:14  <V453000> hi people :)
08:39:25  <coopserver> <Tromp> Hello!
08:39:43  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> hi V
08:48:08  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> oops
08:48:32  <coopserver> <Tromp> Oops? :o
08:49:04  <coopserver> <Tromp> :O
08:50:01  <V453000> how are you doing?
08:50:40  <coopserver> <Tromp> I'm all right, thanks!  How are you?
08:50:57  <V453000> pretty great, busy but right now doing some new train graphics :)
08:51:09  <coopserver> <Tromp> Ooh, neat!
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10:12:42  <coopserver> <Tromp> Woah, we're at vehicle capacity?
10:13:49  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> yeah - you can go through the train list and see if any overflows have lots of trains in them and delete a few if you want to add some somewhere else
10:13:51  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> goodnight!
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13:09:11  <Maraxus> !pw
13:09:11  <coopserver> Maraxus: inject
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15:41:04  <Tromp> !tunnels 7 3
15:54:32  <Jam35> @tunnels
15:54:32  <Webster> Jam35: (tunnels <trainlength> [<split>]) -- Returns minimum and maximum signal gap sizes for 2,3 and 4 linesplits with <trainlength>. If <spilt> is given it will return the gap sizes for <split> (+/-) 1.
16:32:57  <Tromp> Thanks Jam =)
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17:27:27  <Tromp> !password
17:27:27  <coopserver> Tromp: unshow
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17:53:20  <Tromp> !password
17:53:20  <coopserver> Tromp: states
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18:20:47  <Tromp> @gap
18:20:47  <Webster> Tromp: (gap <trainlength> [<split>]) -- Returns minimum and maximum signal gap sizes for 2,3 and 4 linesplits with <trainlength>. If <spilt> is given it will return the gap sizes for <split> (+/-) 1.
18:21:00  <Tromp> gap 7
18:21:07  <Tromp> !gap 7
18:35:14  <^Spike^> @gap 7
18:35:14  <Webster> ^Spike^: For Trainlength of 7: <= 13 needs 2, 14 - 22 needs 3, 23 - 31 needs 4.
18:35:48  <Tromp> Thanks >.<  I wound up sending a private message to stop the spam on this channel
18:35:54  <Tromp> (Total newbie here)
18:37:22  <Tromp> So that means I only have to worry about double-bridging if my signal gap is over 13, right?  A dumpy little 3-tile bridge won't affect the flow?
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18:48:22  <Sylf> you have to worry about double bridging always on main line, but not so much on sidelines
18:49:16  <Sylf> with train length of 7, you'll need triple bridges if bridge/tunnel/any other signal games are more than 13
18:49:31  <maqifrnswa> @gap
18:49:31  <Webster> maqifrnswa: (gap <trainlength> [<split>]) -- Returns minimum and maximum signal gap sizes for 2,3 and 4 linesplits with <trainlength>. If <spilt> is given it will return the gap sizes for <split> (+/-) 1.
18:49:44  <maqifrnswa> @gap 7
18:49:44  <Webster> maqifrnswa: For Trainlength of 7: <= 13 needs 2, 14 - 22 needs 3, 23 - 31 needs 4.
18:49:48  <Tromp> Ah, okay!  I'm just working on a little sideline at the moment.
18:50:05  <hylje> Tromp: yeah, low traffic sidelines you can get away with almost anything
18:50:48  <coopserver> <Tromp> Sure doesn't feel like it with all these trains flyin' around! XD
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18:50:52  <hylje> usually mainlines have signals every other tile
18:51:01  <maqifrnswa> Tromp: you can use the gap calculator by typing "@gap 7" where 7 is the train length, it will tell you how many parallel tracks you need, but for
18:51:13  <hylje> so you need more bridges even for very short bridging
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18:51:49  <maqifrnswa> !dl win64
18:51:49  <coopserver> maqifrnswa:
18:52:06  <coopserver> <Tromp> I've found that with small bridges right next to each other (like three-gap bridges), the trains back up at the split
18:52:41  <maqifrnswa> you need to make sure the bridges are synchronized in that case
18:53:20  <Sylf> bridge sync is overrated, imo
18:53:25  <Sylf> they rarely matter
18:53:53  <coopserver> <Tromp> Should I make a 7-long gap (3 bridge tiles, 4 flatland) so trains can queue up? Is that how it's supposed to work?
18:53:58  <maqifrnswa> yeah, especially for sidelines
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18:54:36  <Sylf> `!pw
18:54:36  <BiG_FISHBOT> Sylf: Error: "!pw" is not a valid command.
18:54:49  <Sylf> !pw
18:54:49  <coopserver> Sylf: linear
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18:55:08  <coopserver> <Sylf> a bit confused talking over irc...
18:55:17  <coopserver> <Sylf> where's the bridge in question?
18:55:36  <coopserver> <Tromp> Added a couple signs: +extra bridge added
18:56:54  <coopserver> <Sylf> double bridges don't need to be that big
18:57:20  <coopserver> <Sylf> that's all you need
18:57:58  <coopserver> <Tromp> Oh! Trains won't get held up at the split?
18:58:18  <coopserver> <Sylf> what did you have when trains were being held up?
18:58:55  <coopserver> <Tromp> One would pause at the far end of the bridge, and the train behind wouldn't be able to enter the other one
18:59:15  <coopserver> <Sylf> go ahead and make the double bridge that wasn't working
19:00:32  <coopserver> <Tromp> Something like that? (on the outbound track)
19:00:45  <coopserver> <Sylf> in that case, we should delete a pair of signals
19:00:52  <coopserver> <Sylf> like that
19:01:59  <maqifrnswa> did you have signals between the bridge and the signal?
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19:01:59  <coopserver> <Sylf> right
19:02:02  <coopserver> <Tromp> I put signals as close to the split as I can, and then I put signals as close to either end of the bridge as I could
19:02:22  <coopserver> <Sylf> oh, recreate those presignals too
19:02:30  <coopserver> <Sylf> how they were placed do matter
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19:06:01  <coopserver> <Tromp> How's that?
19:06:13  <coopserver> <Sylf> oh ok
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19:06:29  <coopserver> <Sylf> we do not use presignals when two lines merge
19:06:46  <coopserver> <Sylf> they're only used at merges to give one line priority over other
19:07:00  <coopserver> <Sylf> but the real use for presignals are when we split lines
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19:07:26  <coopserver> <Sylf> presignals at the entrance to the bridges are often used
19:07:38  <coopserver> <Tromp> Ahh, okay
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19:09:26  <coopserver> <Tromp> All righty, I'm understanding a bit better.  Thank you for the help!
19:10:29  <Clockworker_> make signalling great again
19:10:50  <coopserver> <Tromp> I'm glad someone else knows how! XD
19:10:50  <coopserver> <Sylf> you mean, they aren't great already?
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