Log for #openttdcoop on 20th September 2016:
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13:07:59  <Lejving> morning
13:08:24  <hylje> hay
13:08:25  <happpy> afternoon
13:09:36  <happpy> how things
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13:55:30  <happpy> hey
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17:22:21  <V453000> Mark: around?
17:22:40  <V453000> how bout some coop factorio
17:22:59  <hylje> crass
17:31:50  <Mark> V453000: maybe on the weekend..
17:32:08  <hylje> how insane can it get tho
17:32:10  <V453000> i'm pretty fucked over weekend
17:33:42  <Mark> havent got time now
17:33:45  <Mark> will be going to bed soon
17:34:02  <Mark> but i'd love to some time
17:35:46  <Lejving> !pw
17:35:46  <coopserver> Lejving: output
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17:36:11  <coopserver> <Lejving> hey
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17:45:10  <happpy> hey mark can u chek on the welcome  server u tern on overflow  becours i did won and it did not work how things going
17:52:38  <Lejving> oh wow you started adding another 2 lanes
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18:02:34  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> hey lej
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18:07:04  <V453000> !pw
18:07:04  <coopserver> V453000: levels
18:07:11  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
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18:07:17  <coopserver> <V453000> yo
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18:07:40  <coopserver> <Lejving> hey
18:07:45  <coopserver> <V453000> hihi
18:07:58  <coopserver> <Lejving> so we're doubling the ML?
18:08:18  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> where needed
18:08:25  <coopserver> <Lejving> ok
18:08:44  <coopserver> <Lejving> tell me what I can do =)
18:08:46  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> i've been fixing some signal timing issues -- sometimes SL or merges back up because gaps are too big
18:09:02  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> for now, look for places where there is a back up of trains
18:09:03  <coopserver> <V453000> in case of SLH 666 I re-fixed it :)
18:09:23  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> watch it for a while, see if the problem is there or down stream
18:09:27  <coopserver> <Lejving> !here is big buildup
18:10:51  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> first check if the signaling is good (are bridges doubled if needed? Is prio set up right? are signals missing or gap too big? Should signals be removed to prevent gridlock?)
18:11:09  <coopserver> <Lejving> there's some missing pieces in BBH07
18:11:13  <coopserver> <Lejving> don't know what's going on
18:11:25  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> if it doesn't just clear up with time, then it might be time to invest in an extra track
18:11:54  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> yeah teh BBH 07, someone was prepping for adding a third
18:11:59  <coopserver> <Lejving> aha
18:12:15  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> sometimes it turns out its not needed if the problem actually wwas somewhere else
18:12:31  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> looking at BBH07, I see it is backing up further downstream first
18:13:30  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> ok, that cleared - now i'm just watching it to see if there any extra gaps between trains
18:14:12  <coopserver> <Lejving> I think it's bbh 07 making it
18:14:19  <coopserver> <Lejving> there's a lot of trains coming both ways
18:14:25  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> so far, not really - so maybe a third is needed between bbh 007 and the next one
18:14:50  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> ("not really" is in response to "is there an extra gap")
18:14:56  <coopserver> <Lejving> =)
18:15:22  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> yeah, so hooking up that third someone built might be worth it. First, you need to make sure it actually goes somewhere
18:15:38  <coopserver> <V453000> it needs expanding all the way to BBH04
18:15:45  <coopserver> <V453000> best to start with BBH04 and go backwards from there
18:15:52  <coopserver> <V453000> but I can't right now
18:15:53  <coopserver> *** V453000 has left the game (Leaving)
18:16:15  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> or atleast BBH 01
18:17:17  <coopserver> <Lejving> gah It's hard to know where to start
18:17:38  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> see !e03?
18:17:44  <coopserver> <Lejving> yea
18:18:24  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> you can connect that to hhb01, then connect it at bbh007
18:18:30  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> bbh01
18:18:59  <coopserver> <Lejving> ok it can just go right past msh paper mill?
18:19:13  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> soemone already built the exit for it
18:19:24  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> you would have to build the merger from the paper mill to the ML
18:19:44  <coopserver> <Lejving> check !build merger here
18:19:55  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> basically, those two main station lines would get choices for all three of the ML
18:20:02  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> yeah, that plaec
18:20:07  <coopserver> <Lejving> ok cool
18:20:16  <coopserver> <Lejving> that boils it down a lil at least
18:20:24  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> right now each MSL goes to two, you'd have to add one so they can go to all three
18:20:39  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> you can start that, and just wait to hook it up till later too if you'd like
18:21:37  <coopserver> <Lejving> can you give me a small theory lesson on how to think when connecting from 4 lanes to 3?
18:21:51  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> there's a good article on "merging" on the wiki
18:22:06  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> but the theory  isn't that hard:
18:22:23  <coopserver> <Lejving> the theory from 2 lanes is that you double the lane, make both lanes go to the other two lanes
18:22:24  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> the most complete choice is all-to-all
18:22:39  <coopserver> <Lejving> yea
18:22:59  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> every input goes to every output.
18:23:04  <coopserver> <Lejving> mhm
18:23:39  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> the most simple, that is still acceptable for a bbh, is:
18:24:07  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> Look at how many inputs and outputs you have. In a 4->3, 4 in and 3 out.
18:24:37  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> That means you can have 3 of your 4 inputs not do anything at all, and give them full priority
18:25:10  <coopserver> <Lejving> ah yeah, there doesn't need to be a merge if you're connecting 4 lanes to 4 lanes ^^
18:25:13  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> the remaning input should have choices to go to all 3 outputs
18:25:45  <coopserver> <Lejving> ok that doesn't sound that complicated
18:25:47  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> then use pre-signals and priority to balance it
18:26:04  <coopserver> <Lejving> which lane is preferable to have spliting?
18:26:16  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> you can use that for any merge. 6->2: 2 don't do anything and the remaining 4 split in to two
18:26:48  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> check out bbh 03 for an example of a 6->2 merge
18:27:00  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> in theory, it doesn't matter
18:27:14  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> whichever one it is is the one that will back up if capacity gets too high
18:27:24  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> i maen if traffic gets too high for capacity
18:28:11  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> if your merging with a SL or MSL, then mainline is always the one that gets priority
18:28:15  <coopserver> <Lejving> man I need aderall for this shit :D
18:28:58  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> but this is the heady stuff, set out to do something, see if it does what you wanted to do - then tweak it
18:29:17  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> then you can start trying crazier solutions, or your own style
18:30:02  <coopserver> <Lejving> I'll just build something and you're gonna have to correct me after =)
18:36:14  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> on thing to try to do, is have the merge occur at the same point
18:36:18  <Mark> !pw
18:36:18  <coopserver> Mark: enough
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18:36:42  <coopserver> <Mark> hiho
18:36:59  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> see how the other two lines join to the ML? This way there's an equal chance that either will join
18:37:01  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> hi mark
18:37:07  <coopserver> <Lejving> hey mark
18:37:10  <coopserver> <Lejving> ok check this out
18:37:17  <coopserver> <Lejving> in MSH paper mill
18:38:08  <coopserver> <Mark> anyone expanding bbh01?
18:38:20  <coopserver> <Lejving> I'm getting there
18:38:32  <coopserver> <Lejving> I'm trying to add another lane to msh paper mill
18:38:44  <coopserver> <Lejving> right now
18:38:46  <coopserver> <Mark> ill do bbh01 then
18:38:50  <coopserver> <Lejving> YEAH
18:38:52  <coopserver> <Lejving> yeah =)
18:39:22  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> hey lej - what is "C"
18:39:28  <coopserver> <Lejving> c connects to D
18:40:00  <coopserver> <Lejving> don't want to move the lanes there if I'm not sure what I'm doing 0)
18:40:09  <coopserver> <Lejving> but just to visualise it
18:40:22  <coopserver> <Lejving> same with A to B
18:40:58  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> ok -- for this hub, I think the three incoming ML shouldn't really be touched, and should keep priority -- if a train is on the ML it will just keep on going
18:41:29  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> the line coming from the paper mill, each of those can split in to 3 for each of the ML
18:41:50  <coopserver> <Lejving> so remove A and B?
18:41:51  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> essentially, connect C->D
18:42:04  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> yaeh, and remove the stuff around A nd B
18:42:42  <coopserver> <Lejving> ok cool!
18:42:53  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> when you do it, though, you want trains to intelligently pick wich choice is best
18:43:22  <coopserver> <Lejving> yeah that's easy, I heard trains are super duper smart!
18:43:31  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> check out bbh07 ;-)
18:44:10  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> there's an entry pre-signal and exit presignals so that only one (or two) trains can wait, and when a spot opens up, the trains knows where to go next
18:44:24  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> same with SLH666
18:44:29  <coopserver> <Lejving> yeah =)
18:44:59  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> so when the paper mill line splits in to three, all three choices should be available at teh same time, essentially
18:45:07  <coopserver> <Lejving> I shall try
18:45:10  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> so it should split in to 3 at the same palc
18:45:11  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> place
18:46:54  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> you can watch mark aruond bbh01 to, the masterat work
18:47:02  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> no pressure mark!
18:48:15  <coopserver> <Mark> :)
18:50:47  <coopserver> <Lejving> ok check it out
18:53:16  <Jam35> !pw
18:53:16  <coopserver> Jam35: stdout
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18:53:35  <coopserver> <Jam35> heelo
18:53:39  <coopserver> <Mark> yoyo
18:54:20  <coopserver> <Mark> not sure i understand bbh04
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18:58:14  <coopserver> <Lejving> I don't want to take credit or anything but look at the no queues out of paper mill anymore!
18:58:48  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> ok i'm back
18:59:03  <coopserver> <Lejving> maq would you take a look at it?
19:00:03  <coopserver> <Mark> fuck me
19:00:04  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> looks good, one thing to try to do in the future is to try to make the split occur at the same point. Now you have one split occuring, then the second split occuring
19:00:15  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> which is ok if the spacing works out
19:00:30  <coopserver> <Lejving> can you mark it?
19:00:59  <coopserver> <Jam35> ffs Mark! :P
19:01:06  <coopserver> <Mark> :>
19:01:26  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> which is ok, but if a train backs up at second split, it will totally shut down the first split
19:01:35  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> that would work :-)
19:02:07  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> nice
19:02:35  <coopserver> <Jam35> can I divert to new 3rd now?
19:02:38  <coopserver> <Jam35> bbh04
19:02:56  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> on the oher line, it is ok
19:02:57  <coopserver> <Mark> yea
19:03:01  <BiG_MEECH> 0y
19:03:05  <Arveen> !pw
19:03:05  <coopserver> Arveen: partly
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19:03:26  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> to keep it as it is, because when trains back up - they "tell' the other trains that they can't go that way
19:03:33  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> because the spacing just works out perfectly
19:03:58  <coopserver> <Lejving> should it be like this though for real?
19:04:58  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> It can, just typically not, but mostly for space reasons
19:05:01  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> you have the space here
19:05:25  <coopserver> <Lejving> okok :)
19:05:37  <coopserver> <Lejving> cool then it wasn't as hard as I thought
19:05:46  <coopserver> <Lejving> just need to think correctly
19:06:02  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> usually they look more like the bottom line, but teh top works too!
19:06:09  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> nice job
19:06:15  <coopserver> <Lejving> thanks!
19:07:15  <coopserver> <Mark> gn
19:07:16  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> you might have screwed up the timing ;-)
19:07:18  <coopserver> *** Mark has left the game (Leaving)
19:07:25  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> that last change you made
19:07:33  <coopserver> <Lejving> crap
19:07:41  <coopserver> <Lejving> wnated to clean it up
19:07:44  <coopserver> <Jam35> cya
19:08:13  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> ideally, you want just enough space for one train to wait.
19:08:29  <coopserver> <Lejving> i fix I fix
19:08:42  <coopserver> <Lejving> oops
19:08:44  <coopserver> <Lejving> train slowdown
19:10:28  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> nice, and maybe a combo pre-signal between the two of them as well
19:10:46  <tycoondemon> !pw
19:10:46  <coopserver> tycoondemon: parser
19:10:52  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> might not be neded, but just in case
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19:11:00  <coopserver> <Lejving> =)
19:11:25  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> yeah, so just check it out later and make sure that trains don't back up and block any split
19:11:42  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> if they do, change signaling or move tracks
19:11:49  <coopserver> <Lejving> will do
19:12:12  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> paper mill looks greatnow!
19:12:26  <coopserver> <Lejving> yeah no queues!
19:12:51  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> and you can hook up bbh07
19:13:02  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> just connect thos two taht need to be connected
19:13:55  <coopserver> <Lejving> oh man that's not satisfying at all to watch
19:13:58  <coopserver> <Lejving> not at ALL
19:14:08  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> L0(
19:14:16  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> :-)
19:15:41  <coopserver> *** Jam35 has joined spectators
19:15:49  <coopserver> <Lejving> it was queue from slh666 and from paper mill exit
19:15:53  <coopserver> <Lejving> all of it gone!
19:17:23  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> check the "delivered cargo" graph
19:17:40  <coopserver> <Lejving> went up a lil =)
19:17:58  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> 20%
19:18:04  <coopserver> <Lejving> check !here
19:18:28  <coopserver> <Lejving> why not have the trains decide there instead?
19:18:34  <coopserver> <Lejving> instead of so early
19:18:49  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> that would work
19:19:14  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> you just want to make sure a train can wait if it has to without blocking the line
19:19:17  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> which I thnik it can
19:19:33  <coopserver> *** Arveen has left the game (Leaving)
19:19:42  <coopserver> <Lejving> yeah
19:19:44  <coopserver> <Lejving> looks like iut
19:19:45  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> if a train gets stuck at the one-way path signal
19:19:48  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> it will block the line
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19:23:00  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> do you might if i try something, see if it would help that problem?
19:23:05  <coopserver> <Lejving> not at all
19:24:52  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> might not be enough
19:25:35  <coopserver> <Lejving> you mean that should be able to fit a train?
19:26:05  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> it would fit, but blocks the intersection
19:26:14  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> you need TL+0.5
19:28:45  <coopserver> <Lejving> ok so anything else I can work on? since I'm new I have to keep asking :(
19:34:17  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> you can add overflows at stations taht don't have them, and add trains to them if needed
19:34:46  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> sort stations by ratnig, and chec out the lowest rated ones. add trains/fix something if it needs to be fixed at that station
19:35:20  <coopserver> <Lejving> where do i find by rating
19:35:31  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> click station button
19:35:50  <coopserver> <maqifrnswa> then the top of that tool should have some thing like "sort by" and chose "minimum rating"
19:36:03  <coopserver> <Lejving> Oh
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21:02:23  <coopserver> <Lejving> heya
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21:02:35  <coopserver> <Lejving> I need mentor!
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