Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 26th May 2009:
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05:51:40  *** Xeryus|bnc is now known as XeryusTC
06:08:52  *** DJNekkid has quit IRC
09:47:18  <Brot> [DevZone] Dutch Train Set - Revision 7: screwed up the ICE3, most likely the Thalys, but made superb code o... (DJ Nekkid) -
10:08:18  <Brot> [DevZone] Dutch Train Set - Revision 8: did the same with the zhesm (DJ Nekkid) -
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12:11:22  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DJNekkid
12:44:55  <DJNekkid> hi planetmaker :)
12:52:33  <planetmaker> Hi DJNekkid :)
12:52:50  <DJNekkid> i _were_ gonna ask you something, but i cant remember...
12:53:05  <DJNekkid> but the good thing is, i've made a framework for the MU's in the dutchset :)
12:54:58  <planetmaker> :P
12:55:16  <DJNekkid> look at the tidyness of the mat'64 :)
12:59:08  <DJNekkid> now all i need is the precompile r:)
13:00:54  <planetmaker> hehe :)
13:02:04  <planetmaker> basically you could copy over 2cc trainset's makefile(s) and adjust the names and directories.
13:02:18  <DJNekkid> oki...
13:02:20  <planetmaker> should work 90% ;)
13:02:22  <DJNekkid> i think :)
13:02:57  <planetmaker> though, I guess, there might be some adjustments necessary. I haven't really looked so far, though
13:03:21  <DJNekkid> oki...
13:12:38  <Ammler> is it fine for Hyronimus to make i tpulbic now?
13:13:18  <DJNekkid> quote purno:
13:13:18  <DJNekkid> I prefer Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 Unported for my artwork.
13:13:32  <DJNekkid> DJ Nekkid wrote:
13:13:33  <DJNekkid> btw, what kind of license are you guys thinking about with this set?
13:13:33  <DJNekkid> to be quite clear, from my side do i want GPL. If not the images and such, atleast my code is/will be just that.
13:13:33  <DJNekkid> GPL or some sort os similar artwork licence.
13:13:40  <DJNekkid> that lise line is hyrno...
13:15:34  <planetmaker> I don't understand it.
13:15:39  <planetmaker> semantically
13:15:59  <planetmaker> what is Hironymus statement?
13:16:07  <DJNekkid> GPL or some sort os similar artwork licence.
13:16:25  <planetmaker> well. yes. But that means?
13:17:00  <planetmaker> I think I won't work on or with Purno's images...
13:17:04  <DJNekkid> i have absolutely no idea
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14:06:18  <Brot> [DevZone] 2cc train set - Bug #88: language files are included twice (planetmaker) -
14:09:19  <Brot> [DevZone] 2cc train set - Wiki edit: Wiki (#4) (planetmaker) -
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14:15:19  <Brot> [DevZone] 2cc train set - Revision 149: Merge heads (planetmaker) -
14:18:18  <Brot> [DevZone] 2cc train set - Revision 150: Add .hgignore (planetmaker) -
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15:03:19  <Brot> [DevZone] Dutch Train Set - Revision 9: ICE3 fixed, thalys fixed, irm fixed, etc... only GTW left to do pro... (DJ Nekkid) -
15:17:33  <Ammler> planetmaker: why do you need to ignore *orig ?
15:17:44  <Ammler> oh
15:17:55  <Ammler> hmm
15:27:19  <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - Feature #79 (Closed): font update (foobar) -
15:42:20  <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - Revision 9: Fix [Bug #76]: sprite 4226 of ogfx1.nfo (foobar) -
15:42:21  <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - Revision 10: Cleanup: remove compile-win.bat as it's obsolete now considering the new m... (foobar) -
15:42:22  <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - Bug #76 (Closed): sprite misalignment (foobar) -
16:21:57  <planetmaker> hehe, did you find out why? :)
16:28:43  <DJ_Nekkid> so planetmaker... what would i need from the 2cc stuff to use ID_stuff etc in the dutchset?
16:30:41  <planetmaker> DJ_Nekkid, ID_stuff?
16:30:52  <planetmaker> there is even no ID stuff in the 2cc set :)
16:30:56  <planetmaker> not yet
16:31:11  <planetmaker> if you mean the makefile:
16:31:29  <planetmaker> Makefile, Makefile.config and Makefile.local.sample
16:32:29  <planetmaker> the last one isn't really necessary, though. It's a dummy file which can be copied to Makefile.local and then editied
16:32:38  <DJ_Nekkid> aye
16:32:56  <DJ_Nekkid> and what would i need to edit in thoose?
16:33:31  <planetmaker> look basically in Makefile.config
16:34:08  <planetmaker> well. I can implement that for the Dutch set, it's fine with me - if it at least gets the same license as 2cc set :)
16:34:58  <DJ_Nekkid> you want to? :D
16:35:31  <DJ_Nekkid> and _if_ it can read the HG rev number and add that to the ingame list as well it would be awsome :)
16:35:57  <planetmaker> well. It shouldn't be difficult for me to adjust the makefile.
16:36:07  <planetmaker> yes, that's possible
16:36:22  <planetmaker> I will do that with 2cc, too. Unless you object
16:36:33  <planetmaker> Actually I have the code already :)
16:36:40  <DJ_Nekkid> please do!
16:37:06  <DJ_Nekkid> 1.0.1 pre release r<x>
16:37:08  <DJ_Nekkid> ?
16:37:27  <planetmaker> whatever you want :)
16:37:32  <planetmaker> My personal preference is
16:37:44  <planetmaker> 2cc Train Set 1.0.1 (pre-release, r150)
16:38:13  <DJ_Nekkid> good shit!
16:38:15  <planetmaker> and for a release it is then
16:38:30  <planetmaker> 2cc Train Set 1.0.1 (25/06/2009)
16:38:35  <DJ_Nekkid> yes :)
16:39:18  <planetmaker> for the latter I'm unsure: shall I put in the date from the compilation - then a compilation on another day won't work - or shall it be a parameter in the config file?
16:39:21  <Brot> [DevZone] Dutch Train Set - Bug #86 (Closed): train descriptions (DJNekkid) -
16:40:00  <DJ_Nekkid> 2cc Train Set 1.0.1 (25/06/2009 r150) ... ?
16:40:09  <planetmaker> ^^ for releases?
16:40:17  <planetmaker> fine with me, too.
16:40:24  <DJ_Nekkid> if that makes stuff any better?
16:40:27  <planetmaker> or should we swap r<X> and date?
16:40:42  <planetmaker> well. Anything goes basically :)
16:40:44  <DJ_Nekkid> just as good?
16:40:53  <DJ_Nekkid> whatever you prefer when you write the script!
16:41:01  <planetmaker> 2cc Train Set 1.0.1 (r150 from 25 Jun 2009)
16:41:03  <planetmaker> :)
16:41:39  <planetmaker> 2cc Train Set 1.0.1 (r150 pre-release) for non-official builds
16:41:44  <planetmaker> hm...
16:41:48  <DJ_Nekkid> yes!
16:41:58  <DJ_Nekkid> that will have similar looks
16:42:07  <planetmaker> :) Ok. Then that's it.
16:42:40  <planetmaker> and date in a variable, I think. E.g. you need to patch the Makefile.config to get another date.
16:42:54  <planetmaker> Otherwise it'd be impossible to generate the same MD5 sum on another day.
16:43:17  <DJ_Nekkid> true!
16:43:33  <DJ_Nekkid> with same rev
16:47:56  <planetmaker> yes, of course :)
16:55:16  <FooBar_> why would you want a date in? revision numbers can tell you if one thing is newer than the other just as well
16:55:54  <DJ_Nekkid> good Q ... but i think its nice for people to know when something was released
16:56:13  <DJ_Nekkid> btw, ever done one thing that works, when you do exactly the same thing on another thing, it dont?
16:56:18  <FooBar_> ok, fair enough, but still :P
16:56:54  <FooBar_> maybe you didn't do /exactly/ the same thing on the other thing
16:57:04  <DJ_Nekkid> i did!
16:57:10  <DJ_Nekkid> i did copy/paste the code!
16:57:34  <FooBar_> I have that too sometimes, but in the end I end up finding just one little bit of difference somewhere causing it to fail...
16:57:43  <DJ_Nekkid> hehe
16:58:19  <FooBar_> assuming copy/paste didn't alter anything, it should work really...
16:58:59  <FooBar_> I'd say, delete and try again....
16:59:29  <DJ_Nekkid> the _only_ thing i changed were the vehicle ID of the last sprite on one of them...
16:59:55  <FooBar_> well, there's your problem, you /did/ change something :P
17:00:06  <Ammler> planetmaker: did you commit the Makefile change already?
17:00:12  <FooBar_> maybe there's another vehID somewhere in the copied code?
17:00:49  <FooBar_> or cargo/set IDs don't match up so that you don't have a complete chain of those?
17:01:00  <DJ_Nekkid> well, the thing is
17:01:14  <DJ_Nekkid> the blank sprites are supposed to have 0 capacity
17:01:23  <FooBar_> hi Ammler
17:01:33  <Ammler> Heya Leute
17:01:39  <DJ_Nekkid> in one of the lines it wont do it if it's the primary livary
17:02:17  <FooBar_> want a dalestan answer?
17:02:24  <FooBar_> otherwise I dont know...
17:02:31  <DJ_Nekkid> lol, hit me!
17:02:37  <FooBar_> What does it do in Patch?
17:02:43  <DJ_Nekkid> lol
17:02:49  <FooBar_> :P
17:02:59  <DJ_Nekkid> i dont care, i dont code for patch :)
17:03:24  <DJ_Nekkid> but youself saied a "82 41 10 FF" dont work in patch anyway :)
17:03:28  <Ammler> planetmaker: pre release = rc?
17:03:52  <Ammler> I would call them beta
17:03:59  <FooBar_> true, it indeed appeared that it didn't...
17:04:06  <Ammler> or dev
17:05:26  <FooBar_> still haven't felt like figuring out why
17:05:57  <DJ_Nekkid> hehe
17:06:01  <DJ_Nekkid> wierd really :)
17:06:15  <FooBar_> maybe 82 41 10 FF shouldn't work in Open either, but nobody knows that yet. Did you invent that yourself from reading the spec?
17:06:23  <DJ_Nekkid> nope
17:06:24  <FooBar_> if so, it should be alright I guess
17:06:38  <DJ_Nekkid> pikka and/or froch
17:06:52  <FooBar_> hmmz, then it should be alright as well
17:07:04  <DJ_Nekkid> the 10' is "count number of", compared to 00 that is "from the beginning"
17:07:23  <DJ_Nekkid> and the 82 is because it needs to treat the "lead vehile" and not inself
17:08:26  <FooBar_> isn't 10 the var-shift so that you get the number of trailers from var 41?
17:08:39  <FooBar_> as that's how I read it while checking out real quickly
17:09:07  <DJ_Nekkid> i guess thats the correct way to read it
17:09:18  <FooBar_> otoh, articulated RV is still very buggy in patch, so maybe it's just not implemented there...
17:09:36  <DJ_Nekkid> that might be the correct awnser :)
17:09:53  <FooBar_> like allowing very short trailers isn't implemented
17:09:57  <FooBar_> darn piece of ***
17:10:08  <FooBar_> is this chat logged somewhere public?
17:10:15  <FooBar_> if so, then I didn't say that
17:10:48  <DJ_Nekkid> lol
17:11:38  <DJ_Nekkid> this channel is about a week old :)
17:11:44  <FooBar_> is it?
17:11:52  <FooBar_> didn't know that
17:12:26  <FooBar_> otoh, DevZone is pretty new as well iirc
17:12:37  <DJ_Nekkid> it were created a couple of days after the 2cc set were upped to the HG
17:12:55  <FooBar_> neat
17:13:15  <FooBar_> I'm thinking if I want a repo for my other sets as well...
17:13:47  <DJ_Nekkid> 11-05-2009 22:47 were the initial upload of the 2cc set
17:14:49  <DJ_Nekkid> it's quite nice really...
17:15:17  <FooBar_> yes, I noticed that. I though you were using a repo a long time, but you don't
17:16:04  <DJ_Nekkid> just from the point where planetmaker were anoyed enough with the few remaining bugs :p
17:16:16  <FooBar_> lol :P
17:16:19  <Ammler> [19:14] <Ammler> 2cc Train Set rXX
17:16:20  <Ammler> [19:14] <Ammler> 2cc Train Set 1.1
17:16:40  <FooBar_> so he asked you to set up a repo so he could help fixing them...
17:17:01  <DJ_Nekkid> he offerd to host one to help fix etc
17:17:22  <FooBar_> yes, exactly
17:17:58  <FooBar_> somewhat the same procedure with OpenGFX, but I'm quite pleased with the repo now, so I don't regret it for one bit
17:19:39  <DJ_Nekkid> hehe :)
17:19:46  <DJ_Nekkid> what a bitch he is, that planetmaker :)
17:21:59  <FooBar_> why is there a firs repo at :P
17:22:34  <FooBar_> i didn't put it there...
17:23:06  <DJ_Nekkid> i have no clue
17:25:04  <FooBar_> seems to be a copy of my own repo...
17:25:28  <FooBar_> oh well, if we ever want to switch from bzr to hg, it can be done seamlessly
17:28:36  <planetmaker> hehe. Damn. You see the pattern now ;)
17:28:54  <planetmaker> FooBar_, it's a mirror of yours afaik.
17:28:59  <planetmaker> not sure though.
17:29:07  <planetmaker> you need to blame Ammler :P
17:29:15  <FooBar_> looks like it
17:29:37  <FooBar_> well, it's open source, so there's no-one to blame I guess :P
17:30:04  <planetmaker> For one it's a nice project, for 2nd it is a test for external repositories :)
17:30:21  <FooBar_> seems to work, doesn't it?
17:30:29  <planetmaker> Yes, it should, I think
17:30:47  <planetmaker> I'm not sure, but my guess is that it will sync with yours every n hours or so.
17:30:47  <FooBar_> let me do a checkout for the sake of fun...
17:30:52  <planetmaker> :P
17:30:59  <Ammler> FooBar_: I tried, if it is possible to mirror it.
17:31:03  <Ammler> it isn't
17:31:06  <planetmaker> no? :(
17:31:27  <planetmaker> it should via cron job and a bzr update very n hours or so
17:31:36  <Ammler> you need at another step between -> local bzr -> local hg
17:31:46  <planetmaker> ah... it's hg? ok
17:31:49  <Ammler> you can't convert directly a remote bzr to hg
17:32:34  <Ammler> you can't do that with all dvcs
17:32:42  <FooBar_> so it's more like a manual sync right now?
17:33:14  <Ammler> I should remove my tests ;-)
17:33:30  <FooBar_> well, keep it if you like, I don't mind
17:33:52  <Ammler> FooBar_: it isn't sync, it was one sincle convert at the day you published it.
17:34:10  <Ammler> the convert is very easy btw.
17:34:32  <Ammler> just "hg convert <path to bzr repo>"
17:35:01  <FooBar_> well, it's that much sync that I haven't changed anything since I believe :P
17:35:50  <FooBar_> nope, I haven't, exactly 10 commits in bzr as well :)
17:36:08  <Ammler> wow
17:37:08  <FooBar_> yes, I know :P
17:37:19  <planetmaker> <-- DJ_Nekkid, seems to work with the repository version :)
17:38:54  <FooBar_> Ammler: while you're here... do you allow me to do "hg init" as I see fit? I was thinking of wanting a repo for three other grfs as well...
17:39:19  <Brot> [DevZone] 2cc train set - naming_scheme.png (planetmaker) -
17:39:21  <FooBar_> or actually three repos in that case
17:39:57  <Ammler> yep, I could
17:40:09  <Ammler> you can already create projects as you want
17:40:37  <Ammler> let me rise your "trust level" ;-)
17:41:00  <FooBar_> I already figured that I could, but I didn't know if you would be happy if I actually did
17:42:06  <FooBar_> still something for the future though, I think all three need cleaning up first :P
17:42:11  <Ammler> that was before I introduces the "levels"
17:42:19  <FooBar_> ah ok
17:42:22  <FooBar_> i see
17:42:42  <FooBar_> didn't know I had a level already...
17:42:45  <FooBar_> :P
17:42:46  <Ammler> you can also take a look in .ssh
17:43:02  <Ammler> there you see full hg-repos and locked
17:43:36  <planetmaker> FooBar_, I guess the only condition is that the code is GPL so that the community can really profit from the projects here.
17:43:53  <Ammler> public keys in folder full have access like you now, hg-repos can only make hg and locked are some kicked or whatever
17:44:18  <FooBar_> well, it's CC BY-NC-SA at the moment, but add a repo to that and you basically have GPL...
17:44:37  <Ammler> indeed
17:44:42  <planetmaker> well... yes.
17:44:49  <Ammler> but then you should make it gpl ;-)
17:44:52  <FooBar_> I can, and have no problem with, relicense two of the three projects GPL, for the other I have to discuss that first
17:45:03  <Ammler> it is imo better for the author
17:45:21  <Brot> [DevZone] 2cc train set - Revision 151: Feature: add the repository version to the GRF name and rework make... (planetmaker) -
17:45:22  <planetmaker> the big advantage would be that it could in principle be shipped with an openttd bundle.
17:45:37  <FooBar_> well, CC saved me having to provide the source back in the time, but I started thinking a little different recently...
17:45:39  <Ammler> well, no hurry, just to be mentioned
17:45:42  <planetmaker> he, that took now its minute or so.
17:46:02  <planetmaker> FooBar_, that's true. Can be a hassle :)
17:46:43  <FooBar_> either way, it's something for the future, just wondered what the policy on "hg init" was :P
17:47:06  <Ammler> you are also able to add keys now
17:47:22  <Ammler> but you should add them to the folder hg-repos
17:47:43  <planetmaker> :) our aim with this place is to offer the community a place to easily jointly manage such projects.
17:48:05  <Ammler> and the devzone is still BETA
17:48:12  <FooBar_> and I appreciate that greatly :P
17:48:12  <Ammler> :-)
17:48:13  <planetmaker> :) hehe :) indeed. Very new
17:49:02  <FooBar_> Ammler: I think I need to learn some ssh basics before I can find .ssh. Or adding keys for that matter...
17:49:04  <planetmaker> does OpenGFX also want the repository version in the title / name / version string?
17:49:42  <FooBar_> yes, OpenGFX would like that in the version string of opengfx.obg
17:51:22  <Ammler> we might write a wiki page about such stuff
17:53:00  <planetmaker> yes, yes :P
17:53:06  <FooBar_> lol
17:53:34  <FooBar_> I managed to connect with Putty, but then it's a sheer mistery. For me it is at least :)\
17:53:39  <planetmaker> the md5sums in that file though give me great headache... :(
17:53:50  <planetmaker> FooBar_, type ls
17:53:52  <FooBar_> gesundheit
17:53:54  <planetmaker> ls
17:54:19  <Brot> [DevZone] 2cc train set - Revision 152: Document Makefile.config a bit more (planetmaker) -
17:55:14  <FooBar_> ah, I know that as "dir" on windows, but since that didnt work in msys either, I didn't bugger to try
17:55:44  <FooBar_> who knows "dir" could stand for "delete irrecoverably" :P
17:55:45  <planetmaker> ls doesn't work on msys? strange.
17:56:05  <planetmaker> FooBar_, it is rather defined as an alias for ls -l :)
17:56:17  <FooBar_> nope, dir didn't work. Gave me a very loud beep. and a heartattack with it
17:56:49  <FooBar_> maybe that was when I didn't have it installed correctly... let me try again...
17:57:27  <FooBar_> "command not found"; no loud beep though...
17:57:41  <FooBar_> on my local system that is, for the record
17:58:23  <planetmaker> hm, well. if it isn't defined, it's nothing wrong. you could define it probably yourself then :)
17:59:09  <FooBar_> no need. ls works if you know about it :P
18:05:28  <DJ_Nekkid> FooBar_: what train should i do next? (dutch set)
18:05:49  <FooBar_> let me think...
18:06:27  <DJ_Nekkid> HSA? :)
18:06:31  <DJ_Nekkid> *takes about 5 minutes* :)
18:06:46  <FooBar_> nah, I find that an ugly train
18:06:54  <FooBar_> let me boot up ottd real quickly
18:07:57  <FooBar_> do you want to do MUs primarily, or other stuff as well?
18:08:13  <DJ_Nekkid> well, the mus would usually be most work
18:08:22  <DJ_Nekkid> but if you have any wishes or ideas, be my guets :)
18:09:56  <FooBar_> try the mDDM and it's relatives
18:10:17  <DJ_Nekkid> with relatives beeing?
18:10:21  <DJ_Nekkid> ns1600 or 1800?
18:10:40  <FooBar_> well, let me try to explain...
18:11:08  <FooBar_> the DDM family comes in three flavours
18:11:57  <FooBar_> 1) the mDDM motor unit, two plain bilevel coaches and a cab control coach
18:12:20  <DJ_Nekkid> should not pose a problem :)
18:12:27  <FooBar_> 2) an 1600 locomotive, three bilevel coaches and a cab control
18:12:38  <FooBar_> 3) 1600, file bilevels, cab control
18:12:45  <DJ_Nekkid> file=five?
18:12:49  <FooBar_> indeed :P
18:12:59  <FooBar_> a whole file of those :P
18:14:42  <DJ_Nekkid> are the 1600 ever used with single level coaches?
18:15:47  <FooBar_> make that 1800. The 1600s are for cargo only. Those always confuse the heck out of me...
18:15:55  <DJ_Nekkid> oki :)
18:16:05  <FooBar_> yes, 1800 is used with other coaches as well
18:17:35  <FooBar_> we have 1600, 1700 and 1800 which basically are the same locomotives. 1600 was used for passenger service in the past, but is now used for cargo with remaining passenger locos renumbered to 1800. 1700 is a little more advanced but looks exactly the same from the exterior...
18:17:53  <DJ_Nekkid> isnt the 1700 the mDDm ?
18:17:54  <FooBar_> relevant for you: the 1600 is the red one, the 1800 is the yellow one :P
18:17:59  <DJ_Nekkid> thats how i understood it :)
18:19:16  <DJ_Nekkid> lol... i love how google translates sometimes
18:19:53  <FooBar_> the 1700 is mainly used with DD-AR (those bilevel coaches), but in other consists as well.
18:20:08  <DJ_Nekkid> or does actually "choppersturing" mean meat cleaver?
18:20:14  <FooBar_> the mDDM is the engine in one of those doubledeckers if you don't have a 1700/1800 attached
18:20:31  <FooBar_> what page are you at
18:20:43  <DJ_Nekkid>
18:20:44  <Webster> Title: mDDM - Wikipedia (at
18:20:49  <DJ_Nekkid> just translated to norwegian
18:21:24  <FooBar_> make that "cab control"
18:21:35  <FooBar_> we call that "stuurstandrijtuig" in dutch
18:22:00  <DJ_Nekkid> i were actually at the 1700' page
18:22:13  <DJ_Nekkid> De locserie 1700 is uiterlijk gelijk aan de locserie 1600 , maar technisch op een aantal punten afwijkend, bijvoorbeeld in de thyristor choppersturing met een vaste frequentie van 300 Hz.
18:22:31  <DJ_Nekkid> where a part is translated to "Thyristor kjøttøks kontroll"
18:22:33  <FooBar_> ah, that's something different
18:22:46  <DJ_Nekkid> where kjøttøks directly translated is "meat axe"
18:24:29  <FooBar_> that's some kind of electrical equipment inside the loco to reduce it's power
18:25:06  <DJ_Nekkid> yea, a thyristor is a kind of dimming unit...
18:25:16  <DJ_Nekkid> they are for example used to throttle down voltage ...
18:25:26  <DJ_Nekkid> like a dimmer for downlights :)
18:25:58  <FooBar_> the story goes that if a 1700 pulls up a full power, it would just rip the connection with the wagons to shreds
18:26:13  <DJ_Nekkid> oh... :)
18:26:43  <FooBar_> mainly because it's way too powerful for what it has to do. Built for goods services, but we use it for passenger service :)
18:26:56  <DJ_Nekkid> yup
18:27:21  <FooBar_> In fact, the mDDM engine is half of a 1700
18:27:40  <DJ_Nekkid> that is what i may confuse it with
18:27:57  <DJ_Nekkid> that a mDDm is a partially converted 1700 or something
18:28:46  <FooBar_> not converted, it's newly built but they used the technology of the 1700 for it
18:28:53  <DJ_Nekkid> oki...
18:29:03  <planetmaker> he... a thyristor once saved my pc... :)
18:29:05  <FooBar_> at least that's how I understood it; it doesn't say so on wikipedia though
18:29:09  <FooBar_> lol :P
18:29:22  <DJ_Nekkid> i've read about it somewhere tho :)
18:29:41  <FooBar_> the 1700 is referenced on the mddm page.
18:29:46  <planetmaker> a pulse-width modulation doesn't really trim down the voltage. Only the mean voltage.
18:30:18  <planetmaker> so I was lucky to burn the Thyristor and not the 1000€ analogue input card....
18:30:19  <Brot> [DevZone] 2cc train set - Bug #88 (Closed): language files are included twice (planetmaker) -
18:30:50  <FooBar_> what it says there is that the 1700s were used until the mDDM units came available.
18:31:03  <FooBar_> not the whole story, but basically it reads that
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18:45:50  <FooBar__> let me make it more confusing with that DDM stuff...
18:46:28  <FooBar__> i think I better open a issue for that...
18:46:39  <DJ_Nekkid> oki
18:46:49  <FooBar__> there's 6 different consists changing over time, I have time with it
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18:57:19  <Brot> [DevZone] 2cc train set - Revision 153: Menno! Use --template ;-) (Ammler) -
18:58:18  *** FooBar__ is now known as FooBar_
19:00:18  <Brot> [DevZone] Dutch Train Set - Bug #89: DDM consists (foobar) -
19:03:19  <Brot> [DevZone] 2cc train set - Revision 155: Add Ammler's changes (planetmaker) -
19:03:54  <Ammler> :-)
19:04:10  <planetmaker> :) I didn't know of --template
19:04:23  <planetmaker> looks way easier :)
19:05:40  <Ammler> I told you about around 1000 times :P
19:05:48  <planetmaker> I guess that's the true beauty of a multy-person archive :)
19:05:55  <planetmaker> Things get better way easier.
19:06:04  <Ammler> indeed.
19:06:08  <planetmaker> yes... you talked about templates... but I didn't understand :)
19:06:42  <Ammler> where is commit 154?
19:06:57  <planetmaker> if you push several changes, it displays only the last
19:07:34  <planetmaker> 154 is actually what I did :P
19:07:38  <planetmaker> it's top secret :P
19:07:44  <Ammler> hehe
19:08:12  <Ammler> you are going to make a really nice Makefile
19:08:20  <planetmaker> ty :)
19:08:33  <planetmaker> It's actually quite fun.
19:08:44  <planetmaker> Do you know your way with sed well?
19:10:08  <planetmaker>
19:10:18  <planetmaker> ^^there I described basically the problem
19:10:20  <planetmaker> :)
19:12:09  <planetmaker> what I found out so far is to use probably a multi-line substitution... but... well. doesn't work really.
19:12:21  <planetmaker> at least not easily :)
19:33:43  <Ammler> do I see it right, you just need to write md5sums from a list?
19:33:48  <Ammler> planetmaker: ^
19:34:22  <Ammler> you might use eval
19:34:24  <planetmaker> well. I need to generate them. But I can write what I need in a temporary file...
19:38:11  <Ammler>
19:38:54  <FooBar_> If you need a temp file, maybe then you can have the makefile generate the .obg altogether, instead of injecting stuff in it
19:39:20  <FooBar_> And then define some static stuff in makefile config
19:39:33  <Ammler> yep rename the obg to pobg
19:39:35  <planetmaker> hm... yes, thought about it.
19:39:42  <planetmaker> Ammler: that's already happend :P
19:40:55  <FooBar_> Ammler: I meant like having no obg at all and have the makefile come up with one every time you execute it
19:41:12  <FooBar_> just suggesting though ;)
19:41:14  * Ammler clones the repo :-)
19:41:15  <planetmaker> FooBar_: probably good idea. Moving everything into makefile.config and just generate that file
19:42:38  <FooBar_> observing your little conversation here and reading your post at w-w-w it seems to be the easiest solution if you ask me...
19:43:09  <planetmaker> FooBar_: what's the version in the obg found in the meta data?
19:43:34  <FooBar_> that's a plain integer that needs to increase in every new release
19:43:46  <Ammler> version       = 6 <-- why is that different?
19:43:48  <FooBar_> that way OpenTTD knows what version is newer if you have more than one available
19:43:56  <planetmaker> hm...
19:44:01  <Ammler> oh, sorry :-)
19:44:15  <FooBar_> I set it to 6 manually for alpha4.2
19:44:30  <planetmaker> hm... could we just use the repository number?
19:44:32  <Ammler> just use the hg rev
19:44:37  <FooBar_> yes, that would work
19:44:38  <planetmaker> then it'd be clear and no duplication
19:44:42  <planetmaker> good. done :)
19:44:49  <FooBar_> nice! ;)
19:45:02  <planetmaker> well. rather menatally :)
19:45:07  <planetmaker> but yes
19:47:02  <Ammler> do you make a dos version, too?
19:47:49  <FooBar_> no, not necessary
19:48:46  <FooBar_> the grf version you need depends on the base graphics, but since this is the base graphics....
19:49:40  <FooBar_> besides, for newgrfs, palette is changeble ingame so people with dos newgrfs can use that if they want to use OpenGFX
19:50:07  <Ammler> the problem is, that openttd doesn't save the palette in the cfg
19:50:14  <Ammler> only in saves
19:50:36  <FooBar_> well, then ottd needs to be fixed in that respect :P
19:50:40  <Ammler> so if somone uses the dos newgrfs, he would prefer the dos base.
19:50:59  <Ammler> I guess, it is ignoreable
19:51:28  <FooBar_> we'll have to see, if people start complaining, a dos version is made with relative ease
19:51:49  <Ammler> yep, since we have the makefile, anyway :-)
19:52:15  <Ammler> and windows pcx are dos compatible, just not opposite, afaik
19:52:27  <FooBar_> maybe one day they invent something that recognises the palette of a newgrf so it uses the correct one automatically
19:52:59  <FooBar_> indeed, windows pcx contain less usable colours than the dos one, so nothing is lost when converting to dos
19:53:06  <Ammler> I asked that several times at #openttd, it seems very hard.
19:53:15  <Ammler> also why isn't grfcodec able to do it?
19:53:47  <FooBar_> grfcodec can convert grfs with -m if I'm not mistaken
19:54:12  <Ammler> but since dos users can join windows server, it isn't a problem for us anymore.
19:54:37  <Ammler> FooBar_: it can convert, but it doesn't chack the palette self.
19:55:09  <FooBar_> you're right, it doesn't
19:56:54  <FooBar_> maybe action 8 needs to be extended with a byte that sets the palette version used, then openttd (and grfcodec) can read that and use the correct palette accordingly
19:57:07  <FooBar_> I know I need to suggest that some place else :P
19:57:22  <Ammler> I already did :P
19:57:27  <FooBar_> ah, good :P
19:57:29  <planetmaker> :) Go ahead. There's somewhere a grf version 8 discussion thread
19:57:43  <Ammler> well, also not in the right place ;-)
19:57:55  <planetmaker> arg. Then do it :)
19:57:56  <FooBar_> by the way, I'm off for a short while, just talk if you have something to say, I'll read up later
19:58:29  <planetmaker> FooBar_: that's the usual way here :) and on irc in general. At least for those with a bouncer :)
19:58:44  <Ammler> planetmaker: the discussion I had about in #openttd didn't make me feeling it is worth to make it serious :-)
19:59:17  <Ammler> FooBar_: I am always here. (and never) :-)
19:59:20  <planetmaker> well. For a new version it would make sense. So... I think, go ahead.
19:59:45  <Ammler> don't see need of it anymore.
20:00:03  <planetmaker> hm... variable access. Assume two arrays x=1 2 3 4 5 6 and y=a b c d e f
20:00:07  <Ammler> just use windows grfs and you are fine.
20:00:32  <planetmaker> how can I access x[i] and y[i] at the same time?
20:00:34  <Ammler> but I fully agree to MB, that using the dos palette would be much better.
20:00:48  <planetmaker> well. As it has more colours it makes sense, yes
20:01:08  <Ammler> and ordered in a locical sense.
20:01:48  <Ammler> planetmaker: was that a question?
20:01:54  <Ammler> (about the arrays)
20:03:28  <planetmaker> two arrays.
20:03:55  <planetmaker> I want to do somthing like for i=0,5 do; echo x[i| y[i]; done
20:04:06  <Ammler> why do you use a array
20:04:20  <planetmaker> because there are 6 filenames?
20:04:27  <planetmaker> all treated the same?
20:04:34  <Ammler> yes
20:04:40  <Ammler> a list
20:04:47  <Ammler> "file1 file2..."
20:04:55  <planetmaker> whatever. That's an array
20:05:07  <planetmaker> x = a b c d e f
20:05:10  <Ammler> `ls *.grf`
20:05:14  <planetmaker> now, is x a list or an array
20:05:24  <planetmaker> well. that doesn't help
20:05:45  <Ammler> does it matter?
20:06:03  <planetmaker> no. I can skip producing the obg file :P
20:07:35  <Ammler> my early houses might have examples for you
20:08:16  <Ammler>
20:10:11  <planetmaker> actually yes, I think. I'll try. Ty
20:12:08  <Ammler> shall I show you how I would make the md5sum list?
20:12:36  <planetmaker> well. I have a list. In a file
20:13:02  <planetmaker> the problem is not to get that list. but to get what I just asked above. Without writing each filename by hand
20:13:20  <planetmaker> but defining the filenames only once in a list or array.
20:13:32  <planetmaker> they're used in a dozen places
20:13:55  <planetmaker> but please go ahead :)
20:14:33  <Ammler> hehe
20:14:41  <planetmaker> #	for i in $(FILENAMES); do echo "s/MD5-$$i.grf/$$i.grf = "`md5sum $$i.grf | cut -f1 -d\  `"/" >> md5sums.txt; done
20:14:54  <planetmaker> ^^creates the list I want - in a file called md5sums.txt
20:15:25  <planetmaker> well. It writes actually a sed replacement file. But similar it could be done.
20:16:02  <Ammler> what is origin for?
20:17:49  <FooBar_> origin is an error message that is displayed if a file is missing or the md5 doesn't match
20:18:23  <FooBar_> instead of "default" you can have the filenames there if you want different messages for each file
20:18:31  <FooBar_> or a combination
20:20:15  <FooBar_> for more info if you like
21:20:42  <FooBar_> somehow grfcodec does check the palette of pcx files. I have an "unrecognised palette" right here...
21:23:48  <Ammler> he
21:25:58  <Ammler> another mate drives Linux now :-)
21:26:34  <Ammler> he broke the disk and lost the recovery cd
21:27:00  <Ammler> windows isn't able to run without that, so I installed suse and everything seems to work :-)
21:29:34  <FooBar_> lol
21:30:07  <FooBar_> as long as you have your product key, you can get a new cd off usenet :P
21:30:21  <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - Revision 11: Fix (r9): font_addl.pcx and medfontcond.pcx had wrong palette applied (foobar) -
21:30:22  <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - Revision 12: Fix [Bug #75]: cropped aircraft sprites to reduce hangar window size (foobar) -
21:30:23  <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - Bug #75 (Closed): aircraft spites uncropped (foobar) -
21:30:33  <FooBar_> anyways, Linux worked here as well, it just didn't work for me :)
21:32:43  <Ammler> the problem is not the key, that one is on the back
21:32:54  <Ammler> the problem are the missing drivers
21:33:10  <Ammler> windows needs searching for them the whole internet
21:33:20  <FooBar_> manufacturers website?
21:33:21  <Ammler> (if you don't have the driver disk anymore)
21:33:25  <Ammler> yep
21:34:00  <Ammler> I don't have network with windows, so I wasn't able to download them :-)
21:34:17  <Ammler> but now, since suse is on, I could, but now, I won't ;-)
21:34:22  <FooBar_> I must admit, everything worked out of the box when I installed Ubuntu, can't say that when I reinstall Windows...
21:34:42  <Ammler> you need 1 hour for setup a linux box and around 4 for windows
21:35:21  <FooBar_> true, but still I'm on windows...
21:35:27  <Ammler> but then you have everything (office, gimp, web, mail, im, irc and and....
21:35:38  <Ammler> :-)
21:35:52  <Ammler> well, I boot my windows every quarter to
21:35:54  <Ammler> o
21:35:57  <FooBar_> after that 4 hours you just have windows, still need to install office, photoshop...
21:36:14  <FooBar_> to what? see if it still works :D
21:37:17  <Ammler> hehe
21:37:37  <Ammler> and then, you give it to your evil mate, which don't care about virus etc.
21:37:52  <Ammler> and he breaks it after half a year again.
21:38:14  <FooBar_> :)
21:38:46  <FooBar_> how often do you reinstall Linux?
21:38:52  <Ammler> the only antivir software you need on linux is, when you use it as mailserver for linux clients
21:39:08  <Ammler> windows clients*
21:39:15  <Ammler> never
21:39:35  <FooBar_> and it doesn't slow down or give other kinds of problems?
21:39:45  <Ammler> I setup the new repos for the next major release and run "zypper dup" (distro update)
21:40:00  <Ammler> it can't
21:40:08  <Ammler> that is the difference :-)
21:40:22  <FooBar_> that's quite different indeed
21:40:24  <Ammler> well, sometimes I deinstall software or switch
21:40:27  <Ammler> like Firefox
21:40:48  <Ammler> which is sometimes really bad on linux
21:41:18  <FooBar_> on windows you have to format and reinstall about every year to keep it from getting very slow and buggy
21:42:06  <Ammler> yeah, dunno
21:42:28  <Ammler> I think that depense, since I use Linux, I have also changed my windows behavior
21:43:12  <Ammler> just keep it clean, don't install experimental software
21:43:45  <Ammler> like those antispy things etc.
21:44:32  <FooBar_> I just have one suite for safety related stuff; mostly does its job
21:45:00  <FooBar_> mostly, because you never know if it actually does :P
21:46:40  <Mark> i've used my current windows installation for 3 years straight
21:46:44  <Mark> no problems at all
21:47:07  <Mark> without antivirs and such
21:47:13  <FooBar_> tell me how you manage to do that, I might learn something :D
21:47:26  <Mark> just know what you're downloading
21:47:43  <Mark> and don't install every piece af crap you run in to
21:47:53  <Mark> shareware kills
21:48:17  <Mark> disable autoupdates for everything
21:49:25  <Ammler> actually I do that on my linux box :P
21:49:40  <FooBar_> I don't install every piece of crap, only things I actually need. If really unsure about something, I put it in a virtual pc
21:49:47  <Ammler> I install everyhting which might be interesting or have autoupdate on etc.
21:49:55  <Mark> heh
21:50:11  <FooBar_> but I do have autoupdate enabled on everything, windows, antivirus, adobe stuff
21:50:50  <Mark> run msconfig and disable all services
21:51:08  <Mark> together with all booting services
21:51:14  <Mark> you don't need any of them anyhow
21:51:32  <FooBar_> lol, that breaks A LOT of things here...
21:51:36  <Mark> first "hide microsoft services" though
21:51:49  <Mark> do you have xp?
21:52:02  <FooBar_> Vista
21:52:07  <Mark> ah right
21:52:20  <Mark> don't bother then :P
21:52:30  <FooBar_> if I would disable non-MS services, I would disable my antivirus for instance...
21:52:48  <Mark> you got 50+ processes i assume?
21:52:56  <FooBar_> granted, there are some things that needn't be there, but then I rather disable those through services.msc...
21:53:52  <FooBar_> I think I can disable 4 :)
21:54:01  <Mark> i don't even have an antivirus btw
21:54:25  <Mark> never had viruses or anything either
21:54:48  <FooBar_> I have 81 processes running atm
21:54:57  <Mark> wow lol
21:55:08  <Mark> i got 27 atm
21:55:31  <FooBar_> yes, that's possible on XP
21:55:35  <FooBar_> not on vista though
21:55:51  <Mark> i know, i used vista
21:55:58  <Mark> though more than 60 seems a lot
21:56:12  <FooBar_> there's already 12 svchost.exe's :)
21:56:18  <Mark> might be wrong though
21:56:21  <FooBar_> non of which malware by the way
21:56:27  <FooBar_> none *
21:58:03  <FooBar_> I have a lot of applications open, all which end up being a process
21:59:09  <FooBar_> down to 74 now... anyways, you get the point
21:59:14  <Mark> :)
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