Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 15th September 2009:
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01:33:54  <Brot6> Backup done! (Usage: 98M)
01:33:54  <Brot6> I just got my PRINCE bumper sticker ... But now I can't remember WHO he is ...
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08:20:51  <welshdragon> Doorslammer: have you seen the topic on licensing on the BROS forums?
08:23:11  <Doorslammer> I haven't there yet, I shall head there now
08:23:42  <welshdragon> didn't you forget your password?
08:23:52  * welshdragon can reset it now, if needed
08:24:11  <Doorslammer> I'll try again, I was really tired last night
08:25:02  <welshdragon> need a link?
08:25:13  <Doorslammer> lol at advert for Borg's Fresh Pastries
08:25:19  <Doorslammer> You will be dessicated
08:25:33  <welshdragon> :)
08:25:36  <Doorslammer> Logging in now
08:26:09  <Doorslammer> Ah, this one has letters and numbers for passwords doesn't it?
08:26:21  <Doorslammer> That was my error
08:26:34  <welshdragon> yes
08:26:57  <Doorslammer> Aha, no problems now
08:27:24  <welshdragon> if there's any bits that need changing let me know
08:29:33  <Doorslammer> Looks good
08:31:07  <welshdragon> i thought that having areas for artists better than having an area for one particular type of train (MU, Diesel, etc)
08:31:31  <Doorslammer> It makes for easier sorting
08:31:54  <welshdragon> yes
08:32:01  <Doorslammer> I actually think I would prefer to make the stock models personally, I find it easier than looking up liveries
08:32:17  <Doorslammer> Like the WAS does
08:32:23  <welshdragon> that's fine
08:32:41  <Doorslammer> I was actually going to do some, but the computer I use for that is not accessable at the moment
08:32:42  <welshdragon> just do whatever you feel like doing
08:33:10  <Doorslammer> Sure
08:33:46  <Doorslammer> Crikey, the Messenger is a huge download now
08:33:48  <welshdragon> So long as the set gets somewhere before christmas :D
08:33:56  <Doorslammer> Oh, no worries there now
08:34:12  <welshdragon> well, yeah
08:34:12  <Doorslammer> We have complete control now, things should be processed faster
08:34:18  <welshdragon> yes
08:34:38  <welshdragon> and everybody in the BROS group is a moderator
08:34:48  <Doorslammer> Nice
08:34:51  <Doorslammer> Oh, good news
08:34:57  <welshdragon> hmm?
08:35:10  <Doorslammer> That file Beardie sent me confirms the completion of the Class 37
08:35:24  <Doorslammer> All liveries are done for it
08:35:35  <Doorslammer> According to his .xls
08:35:50  <welshdragon> Ok, you can stick it on the Forums then
08:36:00  <Doorslammer> Doing so now
08:36:21  <welshdragon> I'm disappearing, got to do stuff
08:36:45  <welshdragon> So long as you are happy, that's great
08:37:54  <Doorslammer> OK, see you a bit later on
08:38:30  <welshdragon> and yeah
08:38:35  <welshdragon> that licensing thing
08:38:41  <welshdragon> VOTE!
08:38:57  <Doorslammer> Yep, all read and good with me
08:39:15  <welshdragon> did you vote though?
08:39:42  <welshdragon> (it'll probably be me who hasn't clicked yes at the poll at the top)
08:43:51  <Doorslammer> Oops, missed the poll
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08:45:49  <Doorslammer> Voted
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09:12:57  <Beardie> Hey welshdragon
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10:16:44  <welshdragon> Doorslammer: Leanden's joining us
10:17:12  <welshdragon> he's joining The Cause
10:21:55  <Doorslammer> Good good
10:22:14  <Doorslammer> I think hes fed up of constant meddling by uninterested people
10:22:25  <Doorslammer> So we grow stronger
10:23:14  <welshdragon> I've got the Tracking table for the BRSet that he was working on
10:23:51  <Doorslammer> Oh right
10:23:59  <Doorslammer> Is that on Google?
10:24:05  <welshdragon> no
10:24:15  <welshdragon> i'l upload it now
10:24:28  <Doorslammer> Cool
10:27:48  <welshdragon> Doorslammer:
10:27:51  <Webster> Title: NWLUG & UK Bus Set Forums View topic - It's About Time (at
10:29:15  <Doorslammer> Nice
10:29:31  <Doorslammer> Glad he sees us as the progress that's long been needed
10:29:37  <welshdragon> :D
10:32:42  <welshdragon> Incoming Leanden
10:33:02  <Doorslammer> I forgot we had those container flats
10:33:02  <Doorslammer> They look good
10:33:37  <welshdragon> Doorslammer:
10:33:40  <Webster> Title: Welcome to Google Docs (at
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10:35:42  <Doorslammer> Evening
10:35:54  <Leanden> i believe there is a conversation in progress with regards to BROS
10:36:06  <Doorslammer> Oh, had an idea on the minimum we have to have completed before first release
10:36:14  <Leanden> 100%?
10:36:16  <Leanden> :P
10:36:30  <Leanden> I would suggest we dont follow the old ways
10:36:39  <Doorslammer> I would like to put forward the suggestion that we must have at least the classes available on UKRS complete as minimum
10:36:52  <Leanden> im good with that
10:37:03  <Leanden> make a poll on the forums
10:37:04  <Doorslammer> Then we can build on that
10:37:27  <Leanden> Is there a tt-forums thread yet?
10:37:30  <Doorslammer> Will do
10:37:33  <Doorslammer> Not yet
10:37:43  <Leanden> May i volunteer to post and update said thread
10:37:48  <Doorslammer> I wanted to wait on news of a subforum first
10:37:53  <Doorslammer> You may do so
10:37:56  <Leanden> subforum?
10:38:03  <Doorslammer> We want it in OpenTTD section though
10:38:03  <Leanden> okie dokie
10:38:06  <Leanden> will make it now :)
10:38:10  <Doorslammer> Yeah
10:38:10  <Doorslammer> It's possible
10:38:19  <Leanden> yea none of that TTDP rubbish
10:38:33  <Leanden> where do you want subforum?
10:38:58  <Leanden> Dya wanna make some sigs for us too
10:39:03  <welshdragon> just link people to the BROS Forums
10:39:07  <Doorslammer> That could appear in OTTD graphics also
10:39:18  <welshdragon> they are viewable by the public :)
10:39:21  <Doorslammer> I will make sigs when my PC is free
10:39:28  <Doorslammer> Been using my laptop this week
10:39:30  <Leanden> okie dokie
10:39:39  <Leanden> another question
10:39:44  <Leanden> what are we gonna say to csuke?
10:39:54  <Leanden> cause all artists have left BR Set now havent they?
10:39:56  <welshdragon>
10:39:59  <Webster> Title: NWLUG & UK Bus Set Forums View topic - PLEASE READ: [Vote] IRC Channel (at
10:40:40  <welshdragon> Webster: the irc channel won't be on Freeside
10:40:50  <Leanden> voted :)
10:40:51  <welshdragon> it'll be on OFTC
10:40:56  <Leanden> OFTC?
10:41:19  <welshdragon> this network
10:41:55  <Ammler> welshdragon: if you will use the devzone, I can send brot6 to the channel, so it would annouce activity on your project only.
10:42:18  <Leanden> In the thread
10:42:23  <Leanden> i will not mention BR Set at all
10:42:24  <Leanden> agreed?
10:42:36  <welshdragon> Ammler: it's up to the community :)
10:42:47  <welshdragon> i'm only hosting forums and posting ideas
10:43:02  <welshdragon> Leanden: yes, don't mention BRSet
10:43:05  <Leanden> what is brot6?
10:43:14  <Leanden> brb
10:43:31  <welshdragon> Brot6 is the devzone's bot
10:44:25  <Doorslammer>
10:44:27  <Webster> Title: NWLUG & UK Bus Set Forums View topic - Minimum completion (at
10:44:31  <Doorslammer> Oh, and stuff csuke
10:44:59  <Ammler> welshdragon: did you try the devzone board?
10:45:09  <Doorslammer> By the way, did we have a 66 body?
10:45:45  <welshdragon> Ammler: i would have done
10:45:58  <Leanden> we lost the 6 body with ronstar
10:46:01  <Leanden> 66*
10:46:20  <Ammler> hmm, but?
10:46:23  <welshdragon> but as I have access to the server its not a problem
10:46:38  <Doorslammer> I didn't realise R****** did that one
10:46:38  <Doorslammer> 67?
10:46:38  <welshdragon> (it's hosted by my old university :P)
10:47:12  <Ammler> well, it is just another website needing registering...
10:48:02  <Leanden> mmm
10:48:04  <welshdragon> Ammler: how do you mean?
10:48:06  <Leanden> maybe check the Brforums
10:48:51  <Ammler> welshdragon: I don't care, was just wondering, if there is something bad about the devzone board, might be too easy...
10:49:20  <welshdragon> Ammler: it's just that I have shell access if anything goes wrong
10:49:36  <welshdragon> (say the MySQL breaks or something)
10:49:59  <Ammler> afaik, jonty-comp doesn't like the devzone either.
10:50:44  <welshdragon> 67 is Ameecher's Leanden / Doorslammer
10:51:40  <Ammler> I hope, you will make it GPL anyway...
10:51:54  <welshdragon> Ammler: i like the devzone
10:52:03  <welshdragon> and we are using GPL v2
10:52:35  <Doorslammer> Ah yes
10:52:40  <Leanden> ok BROS thread is up in Openttd Graphics
10:52:46  <Doorslammer> So are we safe with the 67?
10:53:24  <Leanden> well technically Ameecher has released all his work
10:53:29  <Leanden> so unless he withdraws it
10:53:35  <Leanden> then yes we are safe with the 67
10:53:43  <Leanden> on reflection we are safe with the 66 too
10:53:51  <Leanden> i think
10:53:54  <Leanden> damn 1 sec
10:54:21  <Ammler> what is NWLUG?
10:54:26  <Doorslammer> lol
10:54:26  <welshdragon> I need to rename my forums then
10:54:29  <Rubidium> north wales LUG
10:54:31  <Doorslammer> Linux
10:54:47  <Ammler> ah a linux ug
10:54:53  <welshdragon> NWLUG = North Wales Linux User Group
10:55:02  <welshdragon> I'm kinda chairing it
10:55:13  <Rubidium> anyhow, when you're not 100% sure something is released under GPL: ask
10:55:15  <Ammler> yeah, just saw it on the forums :-)
10:56:11  <Ammler> yes, if you don't find a statement from the author, this graphics are gpl, it isn't.
10:56:14  <Leanden> ok the 66 is fine too :)
10:56:36  <Leanden> Ameecher released all his stuff on the GPL v2 licence
10:56:38  <Rubidium> either they say yes and you can use it or they say know and you're sure you can't. No danger of people flaming you for including stuff that isn't GPL etc.
10:56:43  <Leanden> and is open to be used as we like
10:57:28  <Rubidium> GPL isn't "use as you like"
10:57:45  <Doorslammer> OK, so who wants access to tracking table?
10:57:52  <Doorslammer> I assume Mark
10:57:59  <Leanden> ive sent my Tracking table to mark already
10:58:01  <Leanden> to pass on to you
10:58:21  <Rubidium> everyone? Like OGFX's tracking table
10:58:41  <Ammler> the "Mark" in this channel might not be the Mark you have in mind.
10:58:54  <Leanden> welshdragon is called mark :p
10:58:58  <welshdragon> :D
10:58:58  <Doorslammer> Oh yes, thats right
10:59:05  <Ammler> ah ok :-)
10:59:10  <Doorslammer> I didnt see that Mark
10:59:17  <Leanden> lol i didnt either till he said it
10:59:20  <welshdragon> i suggest all artists have access to Tracking table
10:59:21  <Leanden> Rubidium
10:59:30  <Leanden> can you explain what GPL allows us to do then?
10:59:35  <Leanden> with other peoples work
10:59:53  <Leanden> im a little hazy on it
11:00:38  <Rubidium> well, it's easier to say what it *doesn't* allow: it doesn't allow you to relicense it (like the zlib license)
11:00:48  <Leanden> lol ok
11:00:55  <Leanden> so we can do anything with it except relicense it
11:00:56  <Rubidium> and it doesn't allow you to release binaries without an offer for the sources
11:01:26  <Leanden> ok but for the purposes of using it as graphics in the set
11:01:29  <Leanden> and editting it
11:01:56  <Rubidium> there're a few other things you can do, like you're not allowed to remove copyright notices (IIRC)
11:02:04  <Rubidium> s/can/cannot/
11:02:32  <Ammler> <-- cc webpage has imo a easy understandable summary of it.
11:02:33  <Webster> Title: Creative Commons GNU General Public License (at
11:02:57  <Ammler> (in your prefered language)
11:03:06  <Leanden>
11:03:08  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - [BROS] British Rail Openttd Set (at
11:03:18  <Leanden> theres the thread
11:03:30  <Ammler> do you guys "merge" the british rail & bus set?
11:03:35  <Leanden> nup
11:03:40  <Ammler> :-)
11:03:46  <Leanden> British Rail set isnt involved here
11:04:17  <Ammler> BROS is brset with clear license, isn't?
11:04:29  <Doorslammer> Yep
11:04:34  <Leanden> BROS is unrelated to Brset as far as im concerned
11:05:53  <welshdragon> BROS is unrelated to the UK Bus Set too
11:05:59  <welshdragon> they are seperate
11:07:28  <Leanden> BROS is a completely new set
11:08:12  <Leanden> anyway
11:08:18  <Leanden> nice to see things moving forward :)
11:08:19  <Doorslammer> And is also a cool name
11:08:27  <Leanden> hopefully it wont take 6 years :
11:08:28  <Leanden> :P
11:08:38  <Doorslammer> BROS is on a comeback!
11:09:02  <Leanden> hehe im gonna upload pics of my Class 373 to the tt-forums
11:09:21  <welshdragon> put it in gaaaame
11:09:28  <welshdragon> looks better then
11:09:39  <Leanden> lol do a mock up?
11:09:50  <welshdragon> make sure the eurostar's peeping out of a tunnel :P
11:09:54  <welshdragon> Leanden: yeah
11:09:55  <Leanden> hehe
11:10:07  <welshdragon> use grfcodec or s/thing
11:10:09  <Leanden> anyone got any tt pics with no trains on
11:10:23  <Leanden> and just rail track
11:10:33  <welshdragon> no
11:10:43  <welshdragon> use one of the grf making tools
11:10:52  <Doorslammer> I tend to just make one at the time
11:10:55  <welshdragon> copy Pikka's eurostar stats
11:11:40  <Leanden> ive never used GRF codec
11:11:44  <Leanden> someone wanna do it for me :p
11:12:16  <welshdragon> lol
11:12:20  <welshdragon> hmm
11:13:03  <welshdragon> good question posed:
11:13:04  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - [BROS] British Rail Openttd Set (at
11:13:06  <Ammler> <-- easy guide for setup newgrf developing environment.
11:13:40  <Ammler> (assuming, you are using windows)
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11:18:08  *** openttdcoop sets mode: +v Webster
11:18:20  <Ammler> @services op
11:18:21  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Webster
11:19:22  <Leanden> lol
11:19:33  <Leanden> Which version u trying to install?
11:21:41  <Doorslammer> Ach, I think I have a problem there
11:21:48  <Doorslammer> It's not uploading
11:23:41  <welshdragon> Doorslammer: email it to me
11:23:45  <Doorslammer> OK
11:23:48  <welshdragon> i'll upload it for you
11:24:02  <Doorslammer> Whats the address again?
11:24:39  <welshdragon>
11:25:18  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: UK Bus Set - Feature #555 (Feedback): Scale @ (by welshdragon)
11:27:24  <welshdragon> :D
11:28:17  <Doorslammer> Wahey
11:28:38  <welshdragon> Doorslammer: if you create the topic i'll add the picture to it for you
11:28:44  <Doorslammer> File sent
11:28:51  <Doorslammer> I'm up to speed with my uploads now
11:29:02  <Doorslammer> Just have to put up EXT's ones into his section now
11:29:32  <welshdragon> hehe
11:29:42  <welshdragon> I'll prod Alex later
11:30:23  <Doorslammer> Starting thread now
11:32:50  <Doorslammer>
11:32:52  <Webster> Title: Welsh Linux Groups and Transport Tycoon Project Forums View topic - Class 150/151/153/155/156 [151 still in progress] (at
11:33:59  <Ammler> welshdragon: imo, you should stick to one homepage, using multiple trackers/forums does confuse the contributors...
11:34:40  <Ammler> (I would close the tracker from the devzone.
11:34:57  <welshdragon> Clise the BR Set one
11:35:02  <welshdragon> *close
11:35:22  <Ammler> shall I delete the whole project?
11:35:34  <Ammler> or might you use it again later?
11:35:43  <welshdragon> Ammler: my forums are only temporary until we get a BROS Subforum
11:35:47  <welshdragon> Ammler: delete it
11:35:50  <welshdragon> it's dead
11:36:40  <Ammler> it's empty anway...
11:36:51  <Ammler> what about the uk bus set?
11:37:37  <Ammler> <-- link to your forum
11:37:53  <Ammler> and disable all modules for now (my proposal)
11:38:18  <welshdragon> Ammler: ok
11:38:28  <Doorslammer> lol, William Hung is on telly
11:38:31  <welshdragon> UK Bus set is my set
11:39:01  <Ammler> welshdragon: but where should contributors post sprites?
11:39:14  <welshdragon> Ammler: anywhere
11:39:17  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Redmine - Revision 2727: (svn r2888) Russian update (#3859) @ (by winterheart)
11:39:18  <Ammler> :-)
11:39:22  <welshdragon> tt forums or mine
11:39:30  <welshdragon> i'm not bothered
11:39:42  <Ammler> so not on devzone --> close the tracker for now.
11:39:50  <welshdragon> it is on the devzone
11:40:02  <welshdragon> i am using it to track issues
11:40:30  <Ammler> ok, nvm then, you see, you already confused me :-P
11:41:01  <welshdragon> Ammler: that's because I know what I am doing :D
11:41:10  <welshdragon> and can't explain it easily
11:42:38  <welshdragon> Ammler: the Forums are where artists post work, the Devzone is used as a bridge (by me mainly) to kepe track of what's going on
11:42:43  <Ammler> I am a bit sad about, access control with keys doesn't work for all :'-(
11:43:48  <Ammler> maybe I add push-over-http, but not sure...
11:44:09  <welshdragon> HTTP is insecure
11:44:15  <welshdragon> what about HTTPS?
11:45:49  <Leanden> bye bye BRSet
11:45:52  <Leanden> we hardly knew ye
11:46:05  <Leanden> mostly cause ye werent coded and never made it into game despite 6 years of work
11:46:32  <Doorslammer> lol, work
11:46:39  <Leanden> ok
11:46:43  <Leanden> 6 years of flaffing about
11:46:48  <welshdragon> Doorslammer:
11:46:50  <Webster> Title: Welsh Linux Groups and Transport Tycoon Project Forums View topic - Class 150/151/153/155/156 [151 still in progress] (at
11:46:56  <Doorslammer> 6 years of "Um, that sprite looks out of place"
11:47:27  <Leanden> 6 years of "Um, that pixel should be over there by one square"
11:47:37  <welshdragon> 6 years of "there's no shading on that"
11:47:56  <Doorslammer> Cheers welsh
11:48:00  <Doorslammer> Looks good on there
11:48:12  <Rubidium> yeah, ain't vapourware NewGRFs lovely?
11:48:12  <welshdragon> hmm
11:48:19  <Doorslammer> We of course shall have none of that
11:48:25  <Leanden> 6 years of "That pixel drawing doesnt look exactly 100% like the original train despite being 1/100th the size and made of pixels"
11:48:33  <Doorslammer> lol
11:48:43  <Doorslammer> That last one made me lol so much
11:48:43  <Leanden> ok enough of that now :P
11:48:55  <Doorslammer> I couldnt top that anyway
11:48:59  <Leanden> brb
11:49:05  <welshdragon> hehe
11:49:15  <welshdragon> I wonder why Ameecher joined my forums...
11:49:15  <Leanden> lol sorry
11:49:20  <Leanden> didnt mean to outdo you all :p
11:49:27  <Leanden> maybe Ameecher wants to join in
11:49:44  <welshdragon> well, he has his own Artists area
11:50:34  <welshdragon> and if his stuff's under GPL we can stick that on there
11:53:05  <Doorslammer> Might need to move Class 60 to his bit then
11:53:13  <Doorslammer> Thats his bodyshell
11:53:21  <welshdragon> hehe
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12:28:50  <welshdragon> hello Audigex
12:29:38  <Doorslammer> Mr Gex
12:30:02  <Audigex> afternoon
12:43:03  <Leanden> hey jon
12:43:14  <Audigex> hey
12:43:19  <Doorslammer> Oh god, Deuce Bigalow is on later
12:43:25  <Doorslammer> Sounds terrible
12:43:27  <Leanden> I see youve joined BROS :p
12:43:33  <Doorslammer> The second one
12:44:19  <Audigex> i've joined the forum
12:44:26  <Audigex> so i can keep an eye on how things go
12:44:29  <Ammler> hmm
12:44:32  <Ammler> ups
12:44:35  <Audigex> ups?
12:44:41  <Ammler> :-)
12:44:45  <Ammler> again wrong...
12:50:59  <Audigex> what is?
12:52:24  <Leanden> im confuzzled :P
12:53:18  <Leanden> so audigex ur not going to be drawing for BROS
12:53:20  <Leanden> just watching?
12:55:38  <Audigex> i'm drawing
12:55:46  <Audigex> releasing for BRset under GPL
12:55:55  <Audigex> if bros choose to use it, they're welcome to
12:56:23  <Ammler> why btw will you make the grf for openttd only?
12:56:39  <Ammler> will it have that many vehicels?
12:59:02  <welshdragon> Ammler: look at the tracking table
12:59:22  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Infrastructure Sharing - Feature #573: global switches -> default switches (new company template) @ (by Ammler)
12:59:44  <Leanden> yea its gonna have loadsa vehicles
12:59:52  <Leanden> more than the ttdp pool will allow
13:00:20  <Leanden> fair does audigex
13:01:15  <Audigex> you guys do understand that it's possible to fit the whole set into the TTDP pool, right?
13:01:28  <Audigex> most vehicles in the UK are in "families"
13:01:31  <Leanden> yea but with alot of grouping and condensing
13:01:40  <Audigex> not as much as you'd probably expect
13:01:40  <Leanden> ideally we dont want them in families
13:01:48  <Leanden> because even trains in families have different stats
13:01:52  <Audigex> once you've grouped networkers, turbostars and electrostars
13:02:02  <welshdragon> refits can cover most issued
13:02:02  <Audigex> not between those three they dont
13:02:08  <welshdragon> *issues
13:02:11  <Leanden> mmm
13:02:12  <Audigex> look at the networkers
13:02:19  <Leanden> Personally id keep all classes seperate
13:02:24  <Leanden> rather than coding families together
13:02:37  <Audigex> they're all 100mph, most have the same capacity (or as near as doesn't matter when you're adjusting anyway)
13:02:50  <Audigex> they're virtually all 3 or 4 car
13:02:57  <welshdragon> we can vote on it when we get to a stage of being ready to code
13:03:06  <Doorslammer> It's more just to do something remembered better than DBSetXL
13:03:10  <Doorslammer> Or similar
13:03:26  <welshdragon> let's just draw sprites
13:03:35  <welshdragon> that's all that needs doing
13:03:58  <welshdragon> discussing how we are going to get the products into the game can come later
13:14:15  <Audigex> well, it wouldn't hurt to start coding
13:14:17  <Audigex> it takes a long time
13:14:25  <Audigex> and we already know how stats
13:14:52  <welshdragon> hmm
13:14:59  <Doorslammer> Well, I would like everyone to reference the Wikipedia pages for info
13:15:06  <Doorslammer> They are very detailed now
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13:25:44  <Audigex>
13:25:47  <Webster> Title: BRSet :: Log in (at
13:25:48  <Audigex> y'all might want to read that
13:26:21  <Audigex> ameecher's stuff isn't available to the BROS
13:29:50  <Leanden> damnit
13:33:45  <welshdragon> anybody want to go nuts at him?
13:33:53  <welshdragon> as he's being a stubborn twonk
13:35:49  <Audigex> you wont change his mind
13:35:58  <Audigex> and remember, you're the ones making the breakaway set
13:36:10  <Audigex> so you can't expect everyone else to want to join in
13:36:38  <Audigex> damn you guys are confrontational
13:36:48  <Audigex> every time anything happens, you default to angry
13:36:51  <Audigex> chill the fuck out
13:36:54  <welshdragon> well, not really
13:37:05  <welshdragon> but he called it a load of baloney
13:37:25  <welshdragon> which is actually (imho) the brset.
13:38:15  <Audigex> well from what i could see last i looked, the BROS had 0 content other than a tracking table
13:38:41  <Audigex> my concern for you guys, is that this attitude of rebellion and argument will start again in a few months
13:38:43  <Audigex> between yourselves
13:38:58  <welshdragon> Audigex: check the forums
13:39:05  <welshdragon> we've had a stream of updates
13:40:17  <Audigex> leanden - with the minimum of offence intended
13:40:20  <Audigex> that 373 isn't finished...
13:41:03  <Audigex> also, those KTA container wagons are ameecher's work - they should have been posted there, if at all
13:41:15  <Audigex> not in your own area
13:41:19  <Audigex> with no credits
13:41:32  <Leanden> more than 50% of that work is mine
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13:42:04  <Leanden> im not having an object ive put more work into being wasted because someone else is a twonk
13:42:07  <Audigex> it's a derivative work....
13:42:24  <Audigex> you'll waste everyone's work if you do that
13:42:38  <Audigex> because the set will be removed from bananas, tt-forums and wont go into the openttdcoop grfpack
13:42:55  <Audigex> this is an >>open source<< community
13:43:03  <Audigex> copyright is very important
13:43:49  <Audigex> and you guys really could do with paying attention to the threads in the brforum
13:43:54  <Audigex> and note down any remaining issues
13:43:58  <Audigex> rather than just posting the new sprites
13:44:04  <Leanden> Audigex
13:44:07  <Leanden> understand this
13:44:09  <Leanden> BROS isnt Br Set
13:44:11  <Leanden> it isnt related
13:44:20  <Audigex> understand this - copyright
13:44:28  <welshdragon> Leanden: Audigex is right
13:44:32  <welshdragon> it's copyright
13:44:42  <Audigex> if you guys are going to be trashing copyright, i'm out completely
13:44:44  <Audigex> i just wont draw
13:44:56  <Leanden> fine
13:44:59  <Audigex> you can have what i've already done and i'll fuck off
13:45:10  <Audigex> but like i said, good luck getting distributed
13:45:13  <Leanden> i guess its more work wasted
13:45:23  <Leanden> ive put in more than ameecher to that particular item
13:45:24  <Audigex> yes
13:45:28  <Audigex> its wasted
13:45:36  <Audigex> but you're the one choosing to change the terms that it was original drawn on
13:45:37  <Leanden> and tbh
13:45:42  <Audigex> its still available, but not to the new set
13:45:44  <Leanden> thats abuse of the GPL licence
13:45:46  <Leanden> as i understand
13:45:48  <Audigex> he's perfectly entitled to do that
13:45:52  <Audigex> me?
13:45:59  <Leanden> no ameecher
13:46:05  <Audigex> ameecher never released under the gpl
13:46:07  <Audigex> he never stated that
13:46:19  <Leanden> whatever
13:46:21  <Audigex> i asked if it was gpl, his reply was to say it was for the brset only
13:46:22  <Leanden> just delete all my work then
13:46:25  <Doorslammer> What a fucking cockhead
13:46:30  <Doorslammer> Right, now what?
13:46:36  <welshdragon> Leanden: the topics that are Ameecher's work will be deleted
13:46:46  <Leanden> Delete all my work
13:46:50  <welshdragon> no
13:46:51  <Leanden> its all based on someone elses originally
13:47:05  <Leanden> based on work not released for BROS
13:47:21  <Leanden> ill just have to start from scratch
13:47:42  <Audigex> the 395 and 373 are your own, arent they?
13:47:44  <Leanden> But understand im incredibly pissed off
13:47:50  <Leanden> the 395 is mine
13:47:51  <Leanden> the 373 isnt
13:48:01  <Doorslammer> You can delete Ameecher's account then
13:48:02  <Audigex> leanden - YOU are the ones choosing to change the sets
13:48:08  <Doorslammer> We want him nowhere near us
13:48:08  <Leanden> yes
13:48:10  <Leanden> i am
13:48:15  <Leanden> because im fed up with BR Set
13:48:19  <Audigex> so don't expect everyone else to agree with your decisions
13:48:20  <Doorslammer> I mean his account account
13:48:22  <Leanden> and i want change i cant get at BR Set
13:48:38  <Audigex> but others dont want change
13:48:42  <welshdragon> right, Leanden, i'l remove your work
13:48:48  <Audigex> and they're perfectly entitled to not want to move it
13:49:03  <Leanden> ok
13:49:05  <welshdragon> you are, however on your first warning, as you breached copyright
13:49:18  <Doorslammer> What?  Hang on
13:49:26  <Leanden> First Warning!!!
13:49:29  <Audigex> welsh - i dont think he meant to
13:49:32  <Leanden> Appeal
13:49:33  <Audigex> more a misunderstanding
13:49:37  <Leanden> it was not intentional
13:49:40  <welshdragon> ok
13:49:44  <welshdragon> no warning
13:49:46  <Audigex> and leanden - that 373 isn't forbidden from use in the bros
13:49:47  <Doorslammer> We thought that cockhead was GPL
13:49:48  <Leanden> thankyou
13:49:50  <Audigex> you just need to get permission
13:49:52  <Doorslammer> Dave bloody implied it
13:49:56  <Audigex> oh jesus
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13:50:06  <Leanden> well the person who originally started 373 isnt around anymore
13:50:08  <Doorslammer> Typical
13:50:10  <Leanden> i hate that when people leave
13:50:15  <welshdragon> right
13:50:18  <Leanden> in the middle of convo
13:50:24  <Leanden> anyway
13:50:24  <welshdragon> no more politics
13:50:32  <Leanden> just 1 more matter of politics
13:50:39  <Leanden> as far as im concerned
13:50:46  <Leanden> Ronstar and Ameecher are not welcome at BROS
13:50:54  <Doorslammer> Nor is Dave Worley
13:51:00  <Doorslammer> Or csuke
13:51:05  <Leanden> i agree
13:51:16  <welshdragon> right, how to break that to them...
13:51:28  <Doorslammer> Just dont break it to them until they try to
13:51:28  <welshdragon> (well, gavin particularly(a
13:51:28  <Leanden> If they ask ill tell them
13:51:38  <welshdragon> Leanden: they are my forums
13:51:43  <welshdragon> i'll deal with it
13:51:54  <Leanden> okie dokie :)
13:51:56  <Leanden> you do it then :p
13:52:18  <Leanden> but i wouldnt take that attitude everywhere welshdragon
13:52:24  <Leanden> i thought you werent going to be leader
13:52:29  <Leanden> it was a community thing
13:52:38  <Doorslammer> Well, it is his forum
13:52:43  <Leanden> the "my forums" argument is exactly why we left csuke
13:53:01  <Leanden> fair enough if you want to do it
13:53:28  <Doorslammer> We left csuke because his forums arent public
13:53:40  <Leanden> that was just one of my reasons
13:53:41  <Leanden> but ok
13:53:49  <welshdragon> Leanden: i have the ability to ban him if needed
13:54:00  <Leanden> might i suggest if they register issuing an ip ban
13:54:01  <welshdragon> if it comes from you there might be a fallout
13:54:29  <Leanden> oki
13:54:51  <Leanden> im getting damn stressed over this
13:55:01  <Leanden> so much so that i snapped at my gf and now she has gone offline in a huff too
13:55:23  <Leanden> Why does everyone have to be such wankers about everything and not just get along with each other
13:55:31  <welshdragon> right
13:55:49  <Leanden> right
13:55:52  <Leanden> enough ranting now
13:55:56  <Doorslammer> OL, easy now
13:55:57  <Leanden> im going to go call my gf and apologise
13:55:59  <Doorslammer> Ugh
13:56:03  <Doorslammer> OK I mean
13:56:04  <welshdragon> I'm very cautious about removing Ameecher's account
13:56:11  <Doorslammer> Remove it
13:56:15  <welshdragon> it could cause repercussions
13:56:19  <Doorslammer> It is clear they want nothing to do with us
13:56:24  <Leanden> Ameecher is one man
13:56:30  <Leanden> with nothing to do with the BROS
13:56:40  <Leanden> deleting him will make no difference to BROS
13:56:44  <Doorslammer> He had nothing to do with the other one either
13:56:50  <Leanden> not anymore
13:56:53  <Leanden> in his own words
13:56:56  <Leanden> "he has moved on"
13:57:19  <welshdragon> from drawing
13:57:38  <welshdragon> but have you read what he has posted on his part of BROS?
13:58:09  <welshdragon>
13:58:11  <Webster> Title: Welsh Linux Groups and Transport Tycoon Project Forums View topic - I'm touched, but I won't be needing this... (at
13:58:24  <welshdragon> he isn't contributing anything meaningful
13:58:52  <welshdragon> but he might be able to help spot errors
13:58:55  <Doorslammer> Fuck him off then
13:59:23  <welshdragon> i can't
14:00:11  <welshdragon> just because he's not contributing pixels doesn't mean that he has to go
14:00:23  <welshdragon> if he starts being nasty i'll ban him
14:01:00  <Leanden> To be perfectly honest
14:01:05  <Leanden> his opinion may be good or not
14:01:12  <Doorslammer> Well, so the Class 60 was a waste of time now
14:01:16  <Leanden> but he is intentionally hindering the progress of the set
14:01:24  <Leanden> and therefore i would rather not have his opinion
14:01:34  <welshdragon> ok
14:01:56  <welshdragon> i'll change his permissions so he can't view the Artists area
14:02:04  <welshdragon> just the General forum
14:02:22  <Leanden> that will do
14:02:27  <Leanden> thankyou
14:02:38  <Doorslammer> Agreed
14:03:56  <welshdragon> and any of his graphics will have to be removed
14:04:05  <welshdragon> (deriative or not)
14:04:13  <Doorslammer> It's ridiculous
14:04:41  <Doorslammer> How on earth do you make pixels the size of a thumbnail any different?
14:05:20  <Leanden> even if they get redrawn
14:05:26  <Leanden> they will look exactly the same
14:06:54  <Doorslammer> I think Worley will be banned from TTF
14:07:03  <Doorslammer> He has some really nasty words there
14:08:23  <welshdragon>
14:08:25  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - BR Set [WIP][EXPERIENCED AND NEW ARTISTS WANTED!] (at
14:09:01  *** Audigex has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
14:09:02  <Doorslammer> Post reported
14:09:06  *** openttdcoop sets mode: +v Audigex
14:09:20  <welshdragon> same
14:12:11  <Audigex> what post?
14:13:39  <Doorslammer> His mindplosion in his head
14:14:02  <welshdragon> Audigex:
14:14:05  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - BR Set [WIP][EXPERIENCED AND NEW ARTISTS WANTED!] (at
14:14:19  <Audigex> kay
14:14:24  <Audigex> as always, no need for the insults
14:14:41  <Audigex> on the other hand, remember "express" permission
14:14:53  <Audigex> make sure it's specifically stated
14:17:06  <Leanden> what a muppet
14:17:20  <Leanden> he just told me hed come help with gameplay on BROS
14:17:22  <Leanden> no point now though
14:18:31  <Doorslammer> ?
14:18:37  <Leanden> nevermind
14:18:49  <Doorslammer> What on earth di that mean though?
14:18:52  <Doorslammer> *did
14:18:59  <Leanden> Its too much to explain
14:19:08  <Audigex> we've got ages
14:19:20  <Doorslammer> Yeah, loads of time free here
14:21:00  <Leanden> ok Dave has said some bad things
14:21:12  <Leanden> but we havent been particularly nice to him either
14:21:19  <Leanden> i suggest we try and make a middle ground and move on
14:21:47  <Leanden> as for Ronstar and Ameecher and Csuke
14:21:55  <Leanden> i dont think a middle ground can be reached
14:22:14  <Leanden> but Dave is willing to help where he can
14:22:19  <Leanden> which is more than i can say for some other people
14:22:21  <welshdragon> We have with Ameecher, as he's got no access to the Graphics forums
14:22:36  <Leanden> true
14:22:41  <Leanden> Slammer
14:22:47  <Doorslammer> Yeah?
14:22:49  <Leanden> may i suggest you put your personal issues aside with Dav
14:22:52  <Leanden> Dave*
14:23:05  <Doorslammer> Do what you have to do
14:23:06  <Leanden> and accept his help
14:23:16  <Leanden> I just want everyone to get along
14:23:19  <Leanden> and stop these damn conflicts
14:23:22  <welshdragon> I'm happy with that
14:23:43  <Audigex> are all these jets from the russian planeset
14:23:50  <Leanden> jets?
14:24:20  <Audigex> my bad, wrong channel :p
14:24:25  <Leanden> lol
14:24:34  <Leanden> well at least thats sorted
14:25:27  <Leanden> audigex
14:25:33  <Leanden> could u remove ur post from the BROS page
14:25:45  <Leanden> we agreed already we would not be mentioning BRSet at all
14:26:01  <Leanden> ill remove you from the team list
14:26:55  <welshdragon> link, Leanden?
14:27:05  <Leanden>
14:27:07  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - [BROS] British Rail Openttd Set (at
14:28:27  <welshdragon> Leanden: go ahead and remove his name from your first post
14:29:30  <Leanden> have done already
14:30:00  <welshdragon> ok
14:30:02  <welshdragon> :)
14:30:27  <Leanden> :P
14:30:50  <welshdragon> What else is a derivative of Ameecher's work on BROS?
14:31:03  <welshdragon> (i'll have to lock and move the topic, that's all
14:31:04  <welshdragon> )
14:31:08  <Doorslammer> Well, 60 is gone
14:31:15  <Leanden> and 66 and 67
14:31:15  <Doorslammer> 66 and 67
14:31:25  <Doorslammer> Thats it really
14:31:47  <Leanden> how do we deal with items that audigex is working on
14:31:49  <welshdragon> gone?
14:31:53  <Leanden> but is a derivative of Ameecher
14:31:55  <welshdragon> ok, i'll deal with those topics in a mo
14:32:09  <welshdragon> hmm
14:32:21  <Doorslammer> Delete the threads entirely involved
14:32:42  <welshdragon> start from scratch
14:32:56  <Leanden> im going to remove everything of mine from BRSet
14:33:09  <Leanden> if i cant use it the set im working on actively
14:33:15  <Leanden> then noone can as far as im concerned
14:33:41  <Leanden> welsh
14:33:43  <Leanden> did u remove my 373
14:33:44  <welshdragon> yes?
14:33:47  <Leanden> apparently i can keep that
14:34:01  <welshdragon> no, just the containers
14:34:04  <Leanden> kk
14:34:07  <Leanden> ill upload my 395
14:34:58  <Audigex> back
14:35:00  <Audigex> leanden
14:35:01  <welshdragon> wow
14:35:19  <Audigex> my stuff will continue to be posted on csuke's site
14:35:34  <Audigex> if the bros wants it, someone will need to come and duplicated it onto bros
14:36:18  <Audigex> until the point where i'm the only person left on csuke, in which case we'll see what happens
14:36:24  <welshdragon> Gavin's being really mardy
14:36:38  <welshdragon> i've to remove the topic and forum completely
14:37:17  <Audigex> i can see his point
14:37:25  <Audigex> i'm getting a bit annoyed at you all removing your work
14:37:37  <Audigex> you're not making another set and seeing if you can doing better
14:37:44  <Audigex> you're also removing your stuff from the original
14:38:09  <Audigex> which means that if the bros goes tits up, the brset can't get at the stuff
14:38:11  <welshdragon> i've not removed my work
14:38:16  <Audigex> no, but some have
14:38:33  <welshdragon> and everything for bros must be GPL
14:38:44  <Leanden> ive removed mine
14:39:02  <Doorslammer> Look, BROS is going to be here for the long haul
14:39:05  <Doorslammer> Guaranteed
14:39:24  <Leanden> As for accesing stuff
14:39:28  <Leanden> everything ive made i have a copy of
14:39:31  <Leanden> so thats not a problem
14:40:49  <Audigex> if you remove it and post it on bros
14:40:54  <Leanden> if someone decides they want to take my stuff from BROS and put it in BRset
14:40:57  <Audigex> i'm just going to post it straight back onto brset
14:40:58  <Leanden> then thats up to them
14:41:02  <Audigex> exactly what i was saying
14:41:08  <Audigex> so you're just making un-necessary work
14:41:16  <Leanden> yea i am
14:41:41  <Leanden> its nothing against you audigex
14:41:58  <Audigex> no, but it's pissing annoying
14:42:06  <Audigex> besides which, all this extra admin takes time away from drawing
14:42:26  <welshdragon> Audigex: BROS was created as after 6 years, nothing was ready
14:42:52  <Leanden> Audigex: Ill just remove thigns i cant use in BROS
14:42:59  <Leanden> such as my containers
14:43:27  <welshdragon> the BRSet was seeking 100% completion, and as a result, has ground to a halt
14:44:39  <Leanden> Audigex: Im sorry but you will have to remove the containers you uploaded, since they are based on my drawings
14:45:04  <Audigex> see, this is the point at which i dont see the problem
14:45:06  <Audigex> but, if you wish
14:45:13  <Leanden> As stated
14:45:16  <Leanden> its not personal against you
14:45:19  <welshdragon> as a community there was much friction in the BRSet - personality clashes, as a community led project BROS has the momentum to be ready soon
14:45:43  <Leanden> but i dont see why a set where im not participating shoudl be allowed to use my drawings when a set im involved in cant
14:45:59  <welshdragon> Leanden: just keep it as GPL
14:46:08  <Audigex> hang on a sec
14:46:13  <Audigex> mine were actually based on ameecher's sprites
14:46:14  <Leanden> i cant make it GPL
14:46:22  <Audigex> what did you change? just the colours
14:46:23  <Leanden> im not allowed to license other peoples work
14:46:30  <Audigex> i'll just remove your ones
14:46:34  <Leanden> go for it :)
14:46:36  <Audigex> and re-post my own based on ameechers
14:47:43  <Leanden> Audigex
14:47:52  <Leanden> may i ask why you are so attached to the BRSet
14:47:56  <Leanden> and why you wont join BROS?
14:48:32  <Audigex> because i refuse to get involved with the politics
14:48:41  <Audigex> i'll point out to you when you infringe copyright
14:48:43  <Audigex> but thats it
14:48:56  <Audigex> i'm not moving sets, i'm not joining coups and i'm not messing about
14:48:59  <Leanden> Audigex: can you please remove ur post on the BROS thread too
14:49:58  <welshdragon> Audigex: i'll provide a link in your area to the BRSet forums
14:51:05  <welshdragon> and before anybody else says anything, i respect Audigex's decision to stay with that set.
14:51:52  * Rubidium wonders how staying attached to BRSet can't be seen as a political statement, going for BROS is one too though; there basically isn't any action that is non-political
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14:52:43  *** Audigex is now known as Guest2614
14:52:43  *** Audi is now known as audigex
14:52:45  *** openttdcoop sets mode: +v audigex
14:52:51  *** audigex is now known as Audigex
14:53:11  <Audigex> sorry, sister turned the router off
14:53:12  <Audigex> i've amended my post, and thats all i could see you say
14:53:34  <Leanden> ll ok
14:54:08  <Leanden> sorry lets reiterate
14:54:16  <Leanden> can you remove any mention of BR set from your post
14:54:47  <Leanden> we intentionally did not mention BR Set
14:54:56  <Audigex> yes, and i intentionally did
14:54:57  <Leanden> as we'd prefer not to be linked to it in any way
14:54:59  <Audigex> people are clearly confused
14:55:01  <Audigex> and it is linked
14:55:05  <Audigex> its the same sodding graphics
14:55:11  <Audigex> and the same people
14:55:14  <Audigex> well, some of
14:55:24  <Leanden> still
14:55:30  <Leanden> Id rather it wasnt mentioned
14:55:39  <Audigex> and i'd rather it was
14:55:41  <Leanden> and i will ask a moderator to remove it if you dont change it
14:55:46  <Audigex> by all means ask
14:56:02  <Audigex> i wont be removing a helpful, non-insulting post
14:56:05  <Leanden> Please respect our choices as we respect yours
14:56:16  <Audigex> people clearly want to know the difference between bros and brset
14:56:28  <Leanden> And the difference has been stated
14:56:45  <Leanden> Your post implies we are part of the brset
14:56:49  <Leanden> and simply a branch of it
14:56:52  <Leanden> which is not the case
14:56:57  *** Guest2614 has quit IRC
14:57:05  <Leanden> it is a new set which happens to use the same graphics
14:57:24  <Audigex> sigh
14:57:25  <Audigex> more politics
14:57:27  <Audigex> i'm out
14:57:29  <Audigex> post deleted
14:57:33  <Leanden> thankyou
14:57:36  *** Audigex has left #openttdcoop.devzone
14:57:56  <Leanden> welsh?
14:58:56  <welshdragon> brb
14:58:57  <Leanden> he started the politics with that post
14:59:01  <Leanden> *sighs*
14:59:14  <welshdragon> Doorslammer: you are accused of copyright infringement
14:59:24  <Leanden> oh?
14:59:32  <welshdragon>
14:59:34  <Webster> Title: Welsh Linux Groups and Transport Tycoon Project Forums View topic - Class 08/09/10/11/12/13 [Complete, may need livery check] (at
14:59:42  <welshdragon> brb
14:59:48  <Doorslammer> Fantastic start isnt it?
15:01:08  <Doorslammer> Hang on, I thought he didnt have access there?
15:01:18  <Leanden> so did i
15:01:31  <Leanden>   just a quickie
15:01:45  <Doorslammer> Go on
15:01:46  <Leanden> how can something be copyrighted
15:01:49  <Leanden> if it isnt licensed?
15:01:56  <Doorslammer> Aha!
15:01:59  <Doorslammer> Bingo!
15:02:07  <Doorslammer> Good point
15:02:13  <Leanden> i think u can do what you want
15:02:20  <Doorslammer> No doubt someone clever and will find a flaw in that logic
15:02:38  <Doorslammer> But for now, nice work
15:02:52  <Leanden> :)
15:02:55  <Leanden> in which case
15:03:00  <Leanden> i can reupload my containers
15:03:35  <Doorslammer> Works with me
15:03:44  <Doorslammer> Also
15:04:01  <Doorslammer> Audigex says copyright is still present even if you change shape
15:04:09  <Leanden> thats incorrect surely
15:04:15  <Doorslammer> How the heck does that work?  That means nothing is original
15:05:33  <Leanden> i dunno
15:05:39  <Leanden> but ur class 70 is nothing like the 67
15:05:43  <planetmaker> [17:01]	<Leanden>	how can something be copyrighted
15:05:44  <Leanden> and i believe u drew it from scratch?
15:05:45  <planetmaker> [17:01]	<Leanden>	if it isnt licensed?
15:05:46  <planetmaker> my goodness. EVERYTHING is copyrighted.
15:06:03  <Leanden> mmm
15:06:09  <Leanden> as far as the law is concerned
15:06:10  <Leanden> it isnt
15:06:12  <planetmaker> And you may ONLY use something of other people, if you have express permission. Either personally or granted by a license.
15:06:19  <planetmaker> oh yes. Read your law
15:06:58  <planetmaker> there's no need to put a (c) <whomever> in order to avoid you ripping it off.
15:07:30  <Leanden> TO be honest planetmaker
15:07:39  <Leanden> its a load of political bullshit
15:07:47  <Leanden> ruining good hard work for no good reason
15:07:59  <Leanden> except to be arsy and cuntish
15:10:31  <Leanden> wlel that shut you up
15:11:13  <Leanden> just a quickie
15:11:18  <Leanden> if uve done a complete repaint of a model
15:11:25  <Leanden> so that no original pixels remain
15:11:32  <Leanden> does that not make it 100% your own work?
15:12:26  <Rubidium> depends; if you just made all pixels 1 shade darker *likely* not
15:12:40  <Leanden> a total new livery
15:12:46  <Leanden> or changed shape with new livery
15:13:04  <Rubidium> if you did draw it from scratch without *ever* looking at the original then it would be your own work
15:13:07  <Doorslammer> Well, a lot of the changes we have to do involve completely changing areas
15:13:17  <Rubidium> anything in between in lawyer 'heaven'
15:13:26  <Doorslammer> lol
15:13:34  <Leanden> well then my Class 373 is copyright to the company that owns EUrostar and GNER
15:13:43  <Leanden> since i looked at those trains before i made my livery
15:14:29  <Rubidium> you talked about a repaint of a model, which implies changing *only* colours
15:14:45  <Leanden> put it this way
15:14:47  <Leanden> my Class 373
15:14:51  <Leanden> is no longer the same shape
15:14:56  <Leanden> or the same livery as the original
15:14:56  <Doorslammer> But often they require much more than that on some models
15:14:57  <Rubidium> if I spray a class 373 bright purple the copyright of the design still lays at those to companies
15:15:04  <Leanden> but started off by looking at the original
15:15:07  <Leanden> so is that not my work?
15:15:30  <Doorslammer> For example, it seems Gav had a problem with my 08s coming from Ronstar
15:15:31  <Rubidium> if I spray a class 373 with some sort of (my) art then the copyright of the paint job belongs to me
15:15:46  <Doorslammer> But Ronstar's 08s were so fat and wrong they got reworked
15:15:55  <Leanden> tbh
15:15:58  <Leanden> Its all bullshit
15:16:12  <Leanden> if some people want to be gittish about their work and want to ruin everyone else
15:16:14  <Leanden> then so be it
15:16:29  <Doorslammer> Well, Gav has backed off on those
15:16:33  <Rubidium> so e.g. the World Airline Set's liveries are (in my non-lawyer opinion) covered by the copyright of the person who drew the grayscale image and the person who coloured it
15:16:38  <Doorslammer> So they may stay
15:16:39  <Leanden> as far as im concerned if it isnt licensed then we can use it
15:16:47  <Leanden> but since ur the developers and the people that run the forums
15:16:55  <Leanden> our set will get stricken off if we use it
15:17:04  <Leanden> so were just gonna have to go from scratch
15:17:06  <Doorslammer> We do need clarification
15:17:07  <Rubidium> Leanden: if it isn't licensed you have no right AT ALL doing that
15:17:34  <Leanden> if it isnt licensed
15:17:39  <Leanden> it officially belongs to noone
15:17:47  <Rubidium> Leanden: that is wrong
15:17:47  <Leanden> and anything based on it or otherwise is my own work
15:18:07  <Rubidium> you really need to read up on your Berne convention
15:18:09  <Doorslammer> I guess containers are easy enough to do
15:18:29  <Leanden> why should someone else be able to take credit for my work
15:18:35  <Leanden> and something ive put more work into than the original
15:18:46  <Leanden> Berne convention or otherwise
15:18:52  <Rubidium> Leanden: if you write a diary and don't license it. Am I then allowed to sell it saying it is MINE?
15:18:55  <Leanden> how about some fucking common sense and decency
15:19:23  <Rubidium> Leanden: decency means respect what others make and don't rip it off
15:19:36  <Rubidium> unless... you're one of those file sharers where decency doesn't exist
15:19:53  <Leanden> Ive put alot of time and effort into my work
15:19:58  <Rubidium> common sense also says: you shall not steal
15:20:38  <Leanden> I dont want to have to start from scratch on everything i want to do
15:20:43  <Leanden> just so that if that person leaves
15:20:45  <Leanden> i dont lose my work
15:20:54  <Leanden> Tbh i cant be arsed to argue anymore
15:20:59  <Leanden> this is ridiculous and stupid
15:21:08  <Doorslammer> I guess what happens is that this will happen once
15:21:22  <Doorslammer> Now we are all v2 GPL, we can't remove our stuff for you to use
15:21:31  <Leanden> true
15:21:38  <Doorslammer> I guess we should count ourselves lucky on that part
15:21:43  <Leanden> indede
15:21:55  <Leanden> Im going to say two more things on this topic
15:22:02  <Leanden> and then id rather never hear about it again
15:22:07  <Doorslammer> So let's start our things from scratch, ignore the idiots on the other set and carry on
15:22:16  <Leanden> that was going to be my first point
15:22:24  <Doorslammer> OK, last point then
15:22:25  <Doorslammer> :P
15:22:39  <Leanden> my second point is that BR Set can rot in hell for all i care, and i never wish to hear about them again
15:22:48  <Rubidium> if I do not put a paper on my car saying it is fine for everyone to use it as they wish (or forbid people to do so), are you then allowed to take my car?
15:22:49  <Leanden> dont mention them to me
15:23:14  <Leanden> Rubidium: that was about 10 minutes ago, leave it now eh?
15:24:16  <Rubidium> heh, I needed time to come up with a nice analogue :)
15:24:51  <Doorslammer> It was good though
15:25:04  <Doorslammer> So, I now have to make a new 60
15:25:15  <Leanden> last thing
15:25:18  <Doorslammer> I think I should be lucky it's not the 08 as well
15:25:24  <Leanden> apologies to anyone present or not who i may have insulted
15:26:27  <planetmaker> [17:07]	<Leanden>	its a load of political bullshit <-- it is not. And if I catch you ripping off other peoples work here, you're banned without notice.
15:27:05  <Leanden> It actually is
15:27:18  <Leanden> if you know anything about what has been happening at Brset
15:27:26  <Doorslammer> But since he's starting again, that needn't matter
15:27:28  <Leanden> and ive already said i wont be using any of the stuff
15:27:30  <Leanden> please keep up
15:28:21  <welshdragon> hmm
15:28:25  <welshdragon> sorry
15:28:59  <welshdragon> I'd have thought my filtering wpuld have stopped Ameecher
15:29:19  <Doorslammer> That's OK
15:29:31  <Doorslammer> I dont think hes goingto pursue, because look at the two
15:29:45  <Doorslammer> One is clearly an 08 and the other is just fat and awful
15:30:03  <Doorslammer> Oh and I believe the roof was completely wrong dimensions too
15:30:32  <welshdragon> hmm
15:30:36  <welshdragon> right
15:30:42  <Leanden> can you guys look at the 373
15:30:48  <Leanden> please tell me if it needs improving
15:30:50  <Leanden> and where
15:30:55  <welshdragon> is all the political sh*t going to stop now?
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15:31:37  <welshdragon> as if anybody drags politics into this once more, 7 day ban from my forums, as i'm getting fed up with it
15:32:20  <Doorslammer> Is there a link Leanden?
15:36:52  <planetmaker> just to be clear: we also don't tolerate stuff here which does not have a free license.
15:39:25  <Doorslammer> It's OK, found it
15:39:33  *** Xeryus|bnc is now known as XeryusTC
15:39:56  <Doorslammer> Oh, thought I already posted my thoughts on it
15:40:02  <Doorslammer> I'm all in favour of 373
15:43:02  <welshdragon> right
15:43:08  <welshdragon> Leanden / Doorslammer:
15:43:10  <Webster> Title: Welsh Linux Groups and Transport Tycoon Project Forums View topic - Politics. (at
15:43:13  <welshdragon> read it
15:44:19  <Doorslammer> Read and understood
15:44:59  <welshdragon> i'm going to show that to audigex, as he was guilty of it earlier
15:46:02  <Doorslammer> Anyone got the scale standard image?
15:46:37  <welshdragon> planetmaker: feel free to adopt the kick/ban policy on the team members in here :)
15:46:51  <planetmaker> hehe :-)
15:46:58  <welshdragon> (as this is our home for a few days/weeks)
15:47:06  <Doorslammer> lol
15:47:20  <planetmaker> Concerning copyright I'll be at least as strict.
15:47:23  <Ammler> welshdragon: how was the result about own IRC channel ;-)
15:47:42  <welshdragon> i'm not sure yet Ammler: wanting to get rid of us?
15:47:47  <Ammler> no
15:48:16  <Doorslammer> How do you get a channel out of curiousity?
15:48:18  <Ammler> right now, nobody else is talking, so it doesn't matter
15:48:31  <Ammler> Doorslammer: quite easy, just /join #brset
15:48:50  <Doorslammer> :/
15:48:50  <Ammler> or however you would call it.
15:48:55  <Doorslammer> Oh I see
15:49:04  <Doorslammer> lol, example was bad :P
15:49:07  <Doorslammer> Sorry
15:49:09  <Ammler> the first one is the op there.
15:49:31  <Ammler> and if you register it, you are save from evil take over.
15:49:37  <welshdragon> the first one is responsible for registering the channel there
15:49:44  <Ammler> yes.
15:49:57  <welshdragon> and making sure other members can get ops through chanserv
15:50:10  <Ammler>  /msg chanserv help
15:50:23  <Ammler>  /msg chanserv register
15:50:29  <welshdragon> tell me, does Brot6 enforce kicks and bans like Dorpsgek?
15:50:29  <Ammler>  /msg chanserv access
15:50:38  <Ammler> no
15:50:42  <welshdragon> Doorslammer: i'll register #bros now
15:50:47  <Doorslammer> I'm very green with this IRC still
15:50:48  <Ammler> currently brot6 does only announce.
15:50:51  <welshdragon> Ammler: drat :(
15:51:02  <Ammler> we use Webster for that.
15:51:31  <planetmaker> which basically is the same but
15:51:32  <planetmaker> *bot
15:52:53  <welshdragon> hmm
15:52:54  <Doorslammer> Here's an interesting fact, welsh, did you know the BR Mk1 also had a gold carrying variant, the IVA?
15:53:12  <Doorslammer> I didn't know there was a specific version for gold
15:53:14  <welshdragon> no :P
15:53:19  <Doorslammer> lol
15:53:28  <Doorslammer> That could be very handy in the game
15:53:48  <Doorslammer> Passengers, tourists, mail, goods, gold, diamonds
15:53:55  <Doorslammer> Mk1s will be very busy
15:54:15  <welshdragon> ok my fellow BROS members
15:54:20  <Leanden> back
15:54:24  <Doorslammer> Members of BROS
15:54:24  <welshdragon> #bros is registered
15:54:32  <Leanden> Finished the shape of the 395
15:54:32  <Doorslammer> Wow, that was quick
15:54:38  <Doorslammer> Awesome
15:54:48  <Doorslammer> Did you get my comment on the 373?
15:54:57  <welshdragon> (Ammler: we can have the bots now?)
15:55:21  <Ammler> well, Webster is the #openttdcoop bot
15:55:30  <Ammler> and we won't give admin rights to non-members
15:55:45  <welshdragon> hmm, ok
15:55:53  <Ammler> and brot6 is just used for announcing.
15:56:05  <welshdragon> right....
15:56:13  <welshdragon> no bot then...
15:56:46  <Ammler> for announcing, I can setup it for other channels too.
15:56:50  <Doorslammer> Make a bot that announces new posts on the forum, welsh :P
15:56:55  <Ammler> just need the rss feed.
15:57:14  <Leanden> can members of Bros have mod rights on the bros channel?
15:57:23  <Ammler> but if you don't use the devzone, it is kinda useless.
15:58:08  <welshdragon> Leanden: not really
15:58:17  <Leanden> how come?
15:58:22  <welshdragon> hang on
15:58:22  <Ammler> well, what for would you need a bot?
15:58:24  <Doorslammer> lol, its only IRC
15:58:27  <Leanden> true
15:58:33  <Leanden> but people can come in and spam or cause trouble
15:58:39  <Leanden> which if Welshdragon isnt here
15:58:41  <Leanden> is a problem
15:58:53  <Ammler> well, welshdragon can make other op too
15:59:05  <Ammler> chanop is also kind of a bot
15:59:22  <Ammler> (used for access rights)
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16:18:02  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: nightly compile not needed. (r267)
16:18:02  <Brot6> firs: nightly compile not needed. (r217)
16:18:02  <Brot6> fish: nightly compile not needed. (r111)
16:18:03  <Brot6> heqs: nightly compile not needed. (r169)
16:18:03  <Brot6> nmts: nightly compile not needed. (r14)
16:18:04  <Brot6> opengfx: nightly compile not needed. (r200)
16:18:04  <Brot6> opensfx: nightly compile not needed. (r41)
16:18:08  <Brot6> worldairlineset: nightly compile not needed. (r538)
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18:16:34  <DJNekkid> hi guys ...
18:16:42  <DJNekkid> did anyone of you test r14 of NMTS ?
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18:46:51  <Ammler> DJNekkid: yes
18:46:59  <Ammler> (the compile farm complained about)
18:47:02  <DJNekkid> are the TR9 scrampled?
18:47:20  <Ammler> nfo erros and a lot white pixel errors.
18:48:38  <DJNekkid> that is so wierd, as it works perfectly on my side
18:49:33  <Ammler> you don't have any errors if you run "make clean && make" ?
18:49:59  <DJNekkid> i do "make remake"
18:51:39  <Ammler> that is the same?
18:52:01  <DJNekkid> as far as i know ... it cleans and makes
18:52:02  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: what versions of renum and grfcodec do you use?
18:52:14  <DJNekkid> that is, i actually do "make remake install"
18:52:37  <Ammler> well, afaik, grfcodec did already complain about pure white...
18:52:45  <DJNekkid> some seminew versions
18:52:52  <DJNekkid> a couple of months old at best
18:58:00  <Ammler> well, I added the grf to the nightly farm, so you see the problems.
18:58:07  <Ammler> currenty, there are around 40
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18:59:44  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: there were quite some fixes in recent times. Though, yes, the pure white should be present for quite some time.
19:03:01  <DJNekkid> hmm...
19:03:38  <DJNekkid> renum from 24th may, grfcodec from 3th august
19:05:19  <andythenorth> Doorslammer: not to start dramas, but is the blue class 08 definitely definitely yours (just say yes if it is, that's all I need to know)
19:07:06  <Doorslammer> The shape is hugely modified
19:07:20  <Doorslammer> When I mean hugely, I really really mean it
19:07:34  <Doorslammer> The original had the following problems
19:07:49  <Doorslammer> Completely worng roof profile
19:07:52  <Doorslammer> *wrong
19:08:12  <Doorslammer> The actual body was too fat in the diagonals
19:08:26  <Doorslammer> And it got a good reshade into the bargain
19:08:27  <planetmaker> but it is derived work, e.g. you started with the image of another person?
19:08:34  <Doorslammer> So it's far from standard
19:08:45  <Doorslammer> It was a poor graphic
19:09:05  <planetmaker> that's not the question and subject to individual judgement.
19:09:13  <andythenorth> Anyone done a class 20 in blue that's definitely GPL?
19:09:27  <Doorslammer> DanMacK
19:09:45  <andythenorth> Is it in the BR Set original thread?
19:10:06  <Doorslammer> Yes
19:10:24  <Doorslammer> Made in 2008
19:10:44  <Doorslammer> And was originally posted that thread first
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19:46:24  <Audigex> andy
19:46:34  <Audigex> firstly, #bros :)
19:46:45  <Audigex> secondly, did danmack ever actually say that c20 was gpl?
20:13:01  <Ammler> danmack has a general license for his work
20:13:05  <andythenorth> I missed that.  I was busy
20:13:05  <andythenorth>
20:13:07  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - [BROS] British Rail Openttd Set (at
20:13:12  <andythenorth> Have a look
20:13:32  <Audigex> ammler - fair enough
20:13:34  <andythenorth> Your question above has spoooooooky timing
20:13:35  <Audigex> just wanted to be sure
20:14:05  <Audigex> my question?
20:14:31  <Ammler> you can use his work how you want, just with attribution.
20:14:47  <andythenorth> about DanMack & GPL
20:14:49  <Ammler> but it is still nice, if you ask... :-)
20:17:14  <andythenorth> Anyway, you've got some kind of release now.
20:17:21  <andythenorth> :P
20:17:34  <andythenorth> next you need a repo, and someone to hit you with a clue stick about nfo
20:37:02  *** Audigex has quit IRC
20:41:06  <andythenorth> hmm resounding silence
20:41:09  <andythenorth> I'm off
20:41:11  <andythenorth> good night!
20:41:24  <Chris_Booth> night night
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20:54:12  <planetmaker> hm,...
20:54:18  <planetmaker> good night from here, too :-)
20:56:16  <Ammler> nice dreams planetmaker
20:56:26  <planetmaker> to you, too! :-)
20:56:34  <Ammler> :-)
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21:12:58  <Beardie> Hey Frankr
21:13:06  <Frankr> beardie?
21:13:11  <Beardie> Hello
21:13:13  <Beardie> l
21:13:15  <Beardie> lol
21:13:31  <Beardie> this might intreset you
21:13:33  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - Reorganisation of graphics forums (at
21:13:47  <Beardie> Ammler might be intreseted to
21:14:50  <Beardie> Don't know how it would apply to the WAS
21:16:01  <Frankr> Beardie where r u
21:16:11  <Beardie> Frankr in IRC
21:16:16  <Beardie> :P
21:16:19  <Beardie> :D
21:16:21  <Frankr> i know
21:16:26  <Beardie> lol
21:16:27  <Frankr> where
21:16:29  <Frankr> home
21:16:30  <Beardie> i know you know
21:16:31  <Frankr> ??
21:16:36  <Beardie> yes at home
21:16:44  <Beardie> in Japan....
21:16:45  <Beardie> :D
21:17:09  <Beardie> MSN is online but appearing offline and skype isn't on
21:17:21  <Beardie> just was busy for 30 minutes
21:17:28  <Beardie> when i came online
21:17:42  <Beardie> which was 30 minutes ago
21:18:51  <Frankr> ok beardie chat in a bit very busy atm
21:18:56  <Frankr> brain is getting fried
21:22:03  <Beardie> ok Frankr
21:22:52  <Rubidium> at home in Japan... early bird :)
21:24:35  <Rubidium> on the other hand, the sun is already up like an hour over there
21:26:28  <Frankr> :)
21:28:46  <Frankr> right free now beardie
21:29:36  <Beardie> Rubidium: lol, course i was joking.
21:29:40  <Beardie> Hey Frankr
21:29:51  <Frankr> how u been 2day
21:29:55  <Beardie> Frankr logging on skype lol
21:30:00  <Beardie> fine thanks
21:30:03  <Frankr> ok
21:32:41  *** ODM has quit IRC
21:36:24  *** Audigex has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
21:36:34  <Ammler> thanks Beardie, I answered.
21:36:36  *** openttdcoop sets mode: +v Audigex
21:36:58  <Beardie> no problem Ammler thought you might be intreseted its a big thing
21:37:48  <Ammler> merge is fine, but splitting 32bpp is like trashing those.
21:38:41  <Ammler> well, maybe just my feeling, it looks like nobody really uses it.
21:39:40  <Ammler> never understood how Zephyris can make his graphics in 32bpp and then convert it to 8bpp...
21:40:09  <Ammler> (without using the 32bpp)
21:42:43  <welshdragon> Ammler: do you have the power to add a project to devzone?
21:42:54  <welshdragon> i'd like to request one for BROS
21:43:09  <welshdragon> we have already something in the game
21:43:27  <Ammler> everyone who is manager from a project can add new projects
21:43:44  <welshdragon> ok, i'll make one now
21:44:27  <Ammler> what you might need me for is, if it goes to vcs
21:45:06  <Ammler> if you have someone who does code the set
21:46:10  <Frankr> atm ammler it is goin to be beardie, :)
21:46:32  <Ammler> well, then no work from my side :-)
21:46:48  <Ammler> I would recommend Beardie to use the newgrf framework from planetmaker
21:47:06  <Frankr> indeed, it will be me and beardie again and hopefully djnekkid, he was interested at one time
21:47:32  <Ammler> well, at least a mu is coded in 1min :-)
21:47:50  <Frankr> :)
21:48:13  <Ammler> welshdragon: add those as developers
21:48:38  <Ammler> and at least one of them as manager, too
21:48:58  <welshdragon> i'm adding people now
21:49:14  <Beardie> :)
21:49:24  <Ammler> people, who don't code put contribute are well, contributors :-)
21:49:32  <Ammler> b*
21:50:28  <welshdragon> done and done
21:50:46  <welshdragon>
21:51:46  <Ammler> yeah, you have listed the Team twice now ;-)
21:52:11  <Beardie> Audigex not on Devzone?
21:52:12  <Audigex> if anyone is coding, i'd love a GRF of my pendolino
21:52:16  <Audigex> i've got a devzone acct
21:52:35  <Beardie> you need adding by welshdragon on contributor
21:52:39  <Frankr> it will be done at some point
21:52:50  <Audigex> beardie, i wont be putting my content on the devzone
21:52:53  <Frankr> Welsh give beardie Manager status
21:53:02  <Frankr> he knows what he's doin
21:53:14  <Audigex> i'm posting my stuff on the brforum, as i've said
21:53:25  <Beardie> we know
21:53:26  <Audigex> if it turns out that the bros forum becomes active enough to be worthwhile, i'll also post it on there
21:53:27  <welshdragon> anybody else want adding to BROS
21:53:32  <welshdragon> ?
21:53:40  <Audigex> well if i'm not adding it to the forum, i'm certainly not adding it to the devzone
21:53:53  <Audigex> so theres no point adding me
21:53:54  <Audigex> :)
21:54:02  <welshdragon> fair do's
21:54:14  <welshdragon> they are your files
21:54:15  <Audigex> tbh i've lost a lot of motivation to draw with this splitting
21:54:28  <Audigex> you're as welcome to put them on the devzone yourselves as on the forum though
21:54:34  <Ammler> oh, this isn't just rename?
21:54:38  <Audigex> no
21:54:58  <Audigex> the most simple way to describe it is probably as a breakaway group
21:55:00  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: British Rail OpenTTD Set - bros-teaser.grf @ (by welshdragon)
21:55:00  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: British Rail OpenTTD Set - bros-teaser.nfo @ (by welshdragon)
21:55:01  <Ammler> well, it isn't my trouble ;-)
21:55:12  <Beardie> Whats in the GRF?
21:55:22  <Audigex> one loco, if i recall correctly
21:55:23  <welshdragon> the class 08
21:55:35  <Rubidium> class 20 or so :)
21:55:35  <Beardie> cool :)
21:55:40  <Audigex> you need to sort out the copyright status of the 08
21:55:41  <Rubidium> with a lovely 1000 hp
21:55:45  <Ammler> Beardie: / Frankr the mercurial repo is initialized.
21:55:49  <Beardie> i mok thanks
21:55:58  <Frankr> ok
21:56:04  * Beardie wonders what i am typing
21:56:24  <welshdragon> Audigex: it states that on TT forums ;)
21:56:31  <Ammler> Beardie: the first thing you should commit is the readme and license ;-)
21:57:16  <Beardie> hg clone? not done it in a while?
21:57:26  <Ammler> yes,
21:57:43  <Beardie> Well not a lcue what to type in msys
21:57:46  <Beardie> clue*
21:57:58  <Ammler> short howto:
21:58:05  <Beardie> ok thanks
21:58:29  <Beardie> whats the project called?
21:58:33  <Ammler> easiest is, if you use ssh also for clone, so you don't need to configure :-)
21:58:38  <Ammler> bros
21:58:38  <Beardie> just 'bros'
21:58:56  <Beardie> <alias> ?
21:59:02  <Ammler> I use the project identifier for the repo, ususally
21:59:08  <Audigex> can anyone here throw together a quick MU sprite for me?
21:59:18  <Audigex> *grf
21:59:20  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: British Rail OpenTTD Set - Teaser GRF @ (by welshdragon)
21:59:25  <Audigex> i really want to see how it looks in game
22:00:19  <Ammler> maybe you use the nmts repo
22:00:59  <Beardie> hg clone ssh://
22:01:01  <welshdragon> Frankr: am i adding you as a developer to BROS?
22:01:03  <Beardie> doesn't work
22:01:13  <Ammler> Beardie: currently user is ottdc
22:01:32  <Ammler> (that might change somewhen....)
22:01:33  <Beardie> Ammler thanks knew something was wrong, tis so long since i did this
22:01:35  <Frankr> ok
22:01:59  <Ammler> Beardie: you do "identify" with the key
22:02:15  <Beardie> bugger
22:02:21  <Beardie> lol
22:02:33  <Frankr> lol
22:02:36  <Ammler> ?
22:03:34  <Beardie> its telling me repository not found
22:04:49  <Beardie> becuase there isn't one
22:04:51  <Beardie> lol
22:05:01  <Beardie> My Key is loaded
22:05:27  <welshdragon> Audigex: which MU?
22:05:51  <Ammler> Beardie:
22:06:14  <Ammler> Beardie: your commit rights are open for every repo on the devzone.
22:06:16  <Audigex> welsh - my pendolino
22:06:28  <welshdragon> ooh
22:06:28  <Audigex> i've spent absolutely ages on it, but i've no idea if it suits the style of the game
22:06:32  <Beardie> do i need a alias at the end?
22:06:34  <Audigex> and i really want to see how it looks
22:06:35  <Ammler> same for Frankr and every other dev here.
22:06:40  <welshdragon> <3 Pendolinos
22:06:52  <Audigex> me too, but i've not idea if mine will look shite
22:07:01  <Ammler> Beardie: you need a alias, if you like to call it something else.
22:07:05  <Audigex> it looks kinda cool as a sprite, but whether that'll translate into game, I dont kno
22:07:06  <Audigex> *know
22:07:16  <Audigex> so if anyone can throw it together into a vague grf
22:07:22  <Beardie> Ammler its not working and i can't read German
22:07:30  <Ammler> ah
22:07:35  <Beardie> lol
22:07:42  <Audigex> top speed 140mph, 80people per car, quite high horsepower
22:07:42  <Ammler> it doesn't matter
22:07:48  <Audigex> i'll love them forever
22:07:49  <Beardie> this is what i am typing into the msys:
22:07:56  <Ammler> hg clone ssh://
22:07:57  <Frankr> is it BROS or British blah
22:08:35  <Beardie> hg clone ssh//
22:08:36  <Beardie> and or
22:08:41  <Beardie> hg clone ssh// beardie27
22:08:47  <welshdragon> Audigex: i'd wait for this lot to calm down
22:08:51  <welshdragon> then ask
22:09:06  <Audigex> i dont even know who can do it
22:09:13  <Audigex> maybe if i bribe ammler
22:09:16  <welshdragon> Beardie:
22:09:21  <Ammler> Beardie: can you paste the output of that?
22:09:22  <Frankr> mine says the server host key is not cached in the registry
22:09:37  <Ammler> ?
22:09:44  <Frankr> is that wat u get beardie?
22:09:48  <Beardie> nope
22:09:49  <Ammler> Frankr: can you push to was?
22:09:56  <Frankr> yh fine
22:10:02  <Frankr> it is just a warning ammler
22:10:11  <Frankr> do you trust blah
22:10:23  <Ammler> ah, if you use another host
22:10:29  <Ammler> like without mz.
22:11:04  <Ammler> Beardie: it doesn't make sense to use your nick as alias.
22:11:13  <Ammler> alias for the project is meant.
22:11:18  <Beardie> nick?
22:11:23  <Ammler> but mostly you don't need one.
22:11:27  <Chris_Booth> Beardie 27
22:11:31  <Beardie> i don't know my alias if i need one
22:12:16  <Chris_Booth> night all
22:12:21  <Ammler> maybe you rather check that:
22:12:30  <Beardie> thanks ok Chris_Booth got something differnt on my screen
22:12:33  <Ammler> nightly Chris_Booth
22:12:52  <Beardie> night
22:13:24  <Beardie> This is doing my head in
22:13:44  <Chris_Booth> beardie then give it a rest for today
22:13:53  *** Chris_Booth has quit IRC
22:13:54  <Beardie> lol
22:13:57  <welshdragon> lol
22:14:24  <Ammler> Beardie: paste something...
22:14:43  <Beardie> can;t really this chat is on lappy and repo is on comp
22:14:57  <Beardie> one sec thank previous link might help, let me try..
22:16:15  <Ammler> do you use tortoise or cmdline?
22:16:30  <Frankr> tortoise
22:16:34  <Beardie> ts wokring now :S
22:16:53  <Ammler> then I am sorry :-)
22:17:11  <Frankr> lol
22:17:17  <Beardie> cmdline
22:17:18  <Ammler> well, you guys should now know about our Guide btw.
22:17:21  <Frankr> do i need an alias
22:17:22  <Beardie> its working now :D
22:17:41  <Ammler> it is statically linked from the top-left menu
22:17:44  <Ammler> "Guide"
22:17:51  <Beardie> Ammler
22:18:06  <Beardie> i accidently cloned the bros repo to a folder called beardie27
22:18:15  <Beardie> how can i remove this and create it on a folder called bros
22:18:27  <Ammler> if the folder doesn't exist
22:18:33  <Ammler> just clone without alias
22:18:55  <Ammler> and I don't need to explain you, how to remove a directory, do I?
22:19:00  <Beardie> no sorted it now :D
22:19:05  <Beardie> no
22:19:08  <Beardie> i see what i did
22:19:12  <Ammler> :-)
22:19:14  <Beardie> i created the folder first
22:19:19  <Beardie> then tried to clone
22:19:25  <Beardie> but when clining it makes a folder
22:19:34  <Beardie> and since a folder of the same name exsisted
22:19:38  <Beardie> then it buggered up LOl
22:20:02  <Beardie> brb
22:20:04  <Beardie> sorry
22:20:07  <Beardie> lol
22:20:09  <Beardie> wrong thing
22:20:19  <Beardie> btw whats the ukbus sets rpo name?
22:20:26  <Beardie> repo*
22:20:37  <Ammler> afaik none
22:20:50  <Ammler> oh, it has one: ukbusset
22:21:07  <Beardie> ok cool thanks
22:21:09  <Ammler> Beardie: as said, it should be the project identifier
22:21:20  <Beardie> o ok :)
22:21:26  <Beardie> just checking :0
22:21:28  <Ammler> same as you have in the url
22:21:33  <Ammler> for devzone
22:22:55  <Beardie> is it normal to have the license file called 'COPYING'
22:23:21  <Beardie> becuase yorick named our GPL license file that for some reason
22:24:38  <Frankr> wat a stupid mistake
22:25:10  <Frankr> i could find the problem in this ssh//
22:25:22  <Frankr> which was really frustrating
22:25:24  <Beardie> ssh:// by any chance?
22:25:52  <Frankr> indeed
22:25:57  <Frankr> took me ages to see it
22:26:13  <Frankr> and it is sorted
22:26:27  <Beardie> welshdragon?
22:26:40  <welshdragon> mmm?
22:27:21  <Beardie> Class 158
22:27:29  <Beardie> Ghostly Nothern rail livery?
22:27:35  <Beardie> don't think so LOL
22:27:41  <welshdragon> hmm
22:27:43  <Beardie> Never exsisted
22:27:48  <Beardie> may i ask where you live?
22:27:56  <Beardie> guessing wales?
22:27:57  <welshdragon> i lived near Leeds
22:28:06  <welshdragon> well, Harrogate
22:28:06  <Beardie> Class 156s carried the livery
22:28:12  <welshdragon> aah
22:28:20  <Beardie> of Ghost White :D
22:28:30  <Beardie> see i would consider myself a Northern Rail expert
22:28:41  <Beardie> i live in Central Lancashire sout of Preston
22:28:48  <Beardie> and i do alot of train photography
22:28:59  <welshdragon> lol
22:29:06  <Beardie> Northern Rail is the most common thing i see
22:29:14  <Beardie> i know the units very well
22:29:29  <Beardie> but we are missing a 3 car Northern Rail Class 158
22:29:44  <Beardie> btw thanks for sorting out all the liveries on to your forum :D
22:29:58  <Beardie> thought i actually don;t have any in my section LOL
22:30:07  <welshdragon> there is the one that has funny shading that does \_
22:30:23  <welshdragon> it's a purple band and white...
22:30:30  <welshdragon> or is that a 156?
22:30:33  <Beardie> 156
22:30:53  <Beardie> only Class 156s carried Ghost White and the opposite purples to the current livery
22:31:25  <Beardie> Check here
22:31:29  <Webster> Title: 156 - Northern Rail (at
22:32:13  <Ammler> [00:23] <Beardie> is it normal to have the license file called 'COPYING' <-- that is very common for GPL license text file
22:32:30  <Beardie> ok i'll keep it that way then :)
22:32:37  <Ammler> because you care about copy your project
22:32:47  <Ammler> but you could also use license.txt
22:33:09  <Ammler> (what the framework from pm does.
22:33:47  <Ammler> I guess, in bananas, both works...
22:33:51  <Beardie> well i think i will keep it at COPYING
22:33:55  <Beardie> :)
22:34:05  <Beardie> i am just copying the license we have for WAS
22:34:14  <Beardie> guessing its the basic GPL license yes?
22:34:23  <Ammler> yes, I assume
22:34:31  <Frankr> wait
22:34:44  <Frankr> Audigex said Version 2 only
22:34:50  <Frankr> we use version 3
22:35:28  <Beardie> humm
22:35:30  <Beardie> hummmmmmm
22:35:34  <Ammler>
22:36:29  <Beardie> Where can i get Version 2 from?
22:36:33  <Ammler> the set with mu template usage:
22:36:44  <Ammler> Beardie: opengfx
22:37:05  <Ammler> or from the link I just pasted
22:37:27  <Ammler>
22:37:49  <Ammler> Beardie: I highly recommend using the makefile framework
22:38:08  <Beardie> welshdragonwe will be Ammler
22:38:09  <Frankr> we will
22:38:09  <Ammler> just copy the whole to your project
22:38:27  <Beardie> sorry miss type then
22:38:39  <Frankr> ammler
22:38:41  <Ammler> ?
22:38:48  <Frankr> wat is it's name
22:38:48  <Beardie> Frankr is getting the Make files i will sort the license
22:38:52  <Frankr> project name
22:39:01  <Frankr> i'll download the repo
22:39:14  <Ammler> Frankr: don't download the repo
22:39:19  <Ammler> just the last snapshot
22:39:57  <Ammler> <-- link zip
22:40:16  <Frankr> k ty
22:40:56  <Ammler> Audigex: with the template from djn, it is done in no time.
22:41:14  <Audigex> i have disagreements with GRF programs
22:41:28  <Audigex> i've just given up, i'm sure there's a reason i'm not meant to do it
22:41:41  <Audigex> pcx files come out wierd, grf makers/codecs/programs fal out with me
22:41:45  <Audigex> *fall
22:42:08  <Audigex> i'm sticking to making pngs and asking people to do it for me :)
22:42:10  <Beardie> well then you don't have to code then :)
22:42:12  <Ammler> <-- use that template
22:42:22  <Audigex> how do you open pcx?
22:42:46  <Ammler> which graphic app do you use?
22:43:05  <Ammler> well, I recommend gimp
22:43:14  <Audigex> i use paint
22:43:30  <Audigex> oh jesus, my hard drive is actually dying
22:43:33  <Audigex> head damage
22:43:39  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: British Rail OpenTTD Set - Revision 0: Added GPL Version 2 License @ (by Beardie27)
22:44:25  <welshdragon> woo!
22:44:34  <Frankr> Ammler the makefile is a mess for me, lol
22:44:42  <Ammler> :-)
22:44:46  <Beardie> :D
22:44:50  <Beardie> I did that!
22:44:57  <Ammler> then wait for planetmaker and djn to help you there.
22:45:27  <Frankr> at least Yorick made it ordered
22:45:32  <Frankr> not just one mess
22:45:40  <Ammler> :-o
22:45:54  <welshdragon> hmm
22:45:55  <Ammler> yoricks Makefile isn't readable at all.
22:46:25  <Ammler> but well, why not using it for this set then?
22:46:26  <Frankr> more readble than all on one line
22:46:59  <Ammler> you need to work with, if you like yoricks makefile more, use it.
22:47:26  <Frankr> well if planetmakers wasn't all on one line
22:47:27  <Audigex> should the sprite start facing up, or down?
22:47:34  <Ammler> I just need "make bundle_zip", the rest I don't care ;-)
22:47:34  <Frankr> i may be able to understand it
22:48:01  <Ammler> Frankr: then you have a linefeed problem
22:48:18  <Ammler> what ugly texteditor do you use?
22:48:26  <Frankr> notepad
22:48:30  <Ammler> lol
22:48:35  <Ammler> I see :-)
22:48:37  <welshdragon> Beardie: fancy getting some of the stuff that's finished coded? :P
22:48:49  <welshdragon> or does your head hurt...
22:48:50  <Frankr> i know ppl have suggested notepad++
22:49:05  <Ammler> well, everything other then notepad is fine.
22:49:18  <Ammler> maybe even word might be better
22:49:22  <Frankr> lol
22:49:35  <Beardie> welshdragon well class 37 seesm doable but it may take a day or two
22:49:41  <welshdragon> heh
22:49:47  <Frankr> indeed ammler
22:49:55  <welshdragon> what about the 1st gen DMU's?
22:50:11  <Beardie> well teh 37 seems easier for someone how can onlu code planes
22:50:17  <welshdragon> lol
22:50:28  <Beardie> not to sure how the second car stuff works
22:50:45  <welshdragon> hmm
22:50:48  <Beardie> course i can cod ea plane to appear at different speeds at differnt heights with differnt graphics, course that is no hlpe LOL
22:50:51  <Frankr> ammler wat do you use?
22:50:56  <welshdragon> can I commit an NFO?
22:51:07  <welshdragon> (there's that 08 NFO)
22:51:11  <Beardie> welshdragon sure, if you want we can move open to #bros
22:51:12  <Ammler> Frankr: linux
22:51:18  <Frankr> lol
22:51:20  <Beardie> over* = open
22:51:23  <Frankr> no added program
22:51:25  <Ammler> but on windows, I used metapad
22:51:35  <Frankr> is it easy to use?
22:51:40  <Ammler> I did natively replace notepad.
22:52:09  <Ammler> Frankr: it is the same simple editor
22:52:22  <Frankr> i'll sort it out 2morro thn
22:52:33  <Frankr> cba tonight
22:52:38  <Frankr> oh shit, sorry
22:52:48  <Frankr> tomorrow*
22:52:53  <Frankr> and can't be arsed
22:53:00  <Frankr> lol
22:53:18  <welshdragon> Ammler: any tutorials for OSX?
22:53:26  * welshdragon is goingto set it up now
22:53:35  <Frankr> i'll just push it all as it is
22:53:53  <Audigex> okay, pcx file filled
22:53:55  <Ammler> Audigex: uploaded png version
22:53:59  <Ammler> oh :-o
22:54:04  <Audigex> well, i say filled
22:54:21  <Audigex> i put the first two rows of 8 views (red+white lights) in
22:54:24  <Ammler> well, that looks like you are able to handle pcx now.
22:54:26  <Audigex> and half a row of carriages
22:54:30  <Audigex> i had a crack with GIMP
22:54:32  <Audigex> no idea if it's right
22:54:42  <Audigex> just opened it and copy-pasted from paint
22:54:49  <Ammler> just use the right pallete
22:54:57  <Audigex> as far as i know it's right
22:55:05  <Ammler>
22:55:06  <Audigex> nicked it from sprites others were using
22:55:09  <Frankr> GIMP is so much better than paint
22:55:23  <Ammler> Frankr: not compareable...
22:55:25  <Frankr> I can't believe Ext still use Ms Paint
22:55:36  <Ammler> well, you used notepad
22:55:45  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: British Rail OpenTTD Set - template-mu-2.png @ (by Ammler)
22:55:47  <Ammler> or still do :-P
22:55:52  <Frankr> lol, i've only been coding a few months
22:56:02  <Frankr> ext has been painting for years
22:56:12  <Ammler> Purno does also use paint, afaik.
22:56:36  <Ammler> it isn't the tool, which makes the nice graphics.
22:56:40  <Frankr> i thought abreviations weren't allowed, :)
22:56:45  <Audigex> can't open it from GIMP directly
22:57:02  <Ammler> Frankr: afaik isn't :-P
22:57:08  <Audigex> frankr - paint can produce just as nice graphics as gimp
22:57:11  <Audigex> or anything else
22:57:14  <Audigex> it's all just pixels :)
22:57:16  <Frankr> It is the painter i know
22:57:32  <Frankr> Afaik is an abreviation
22:57:41  <Audigex> ammler, how do i import the pallate?
22:57:42  <Frankr> As far as i know
22:57:49  <Audigex> afaik it's not an abbreviation
22:57:53  <Ammler> Audigex: but also gimp can just make pixel
22:58:16  <Audigex> i prefer paint for one simple reason
22:58:18  <Audigex> the thumbnail
22:58:23  <Audigex> photoshop, gimp, paint shop pro
22:58:28  <Audigex> none of them, so far as i can see, match it
22:58:39  <Audigex> i just want to zoom in, but see the original at exactly 100%
22:58:44  <Audigex> which moves around as i move around
22:59:04  <Ammler> well, I am not a advanced gimp user.
23:00:15  <Beardie> paint shop pro is fine for me
23:00:15  <Ammler> <-- which row is which view.
23:00:17  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - 2cc TrainSet - The Trains of the world in 2cc. - Now: 1.0.1 (at
23:00:32  <Beardie> i can go to 100%  zoom level and zoom right in if i need to :)
23:01:06  <Audigex> beardie - can you see 100% and zoomed in at the same time?
23:02:01  <Ammler> <-- the code for the template
23:02:07  <Frankr> yh
23:02:36  <Ammler> OMG
23:02:42  <Frankr> Audigex i use Paint Shop Pro though
23:02:46  <Ammler> I liked to sleep 2 hours ago
23:03:14  <Frankr> not sure with GIMP but i'm sure there will something
23:03:32  <Audigex> :(
23:03:38  <Audigex> i'll just make a png
23:03:44  <Audigex> and hope that someone can do the rest if they have time
23:04:31  <Frankr> Beardie
23:04:44  <Frankr> Think if there is pure white errors
23:04:49  <Frankr> there will be loads
23:05:58  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: British Rail OpenTTD Set - Revision 1: Basic 00Header NFO Created @ (by Beardie27)
23:06:29  <Beardie> no true all liveries are on one sheet makes life easier :D
23:06:55  <Beardie> not*
23:08:33  <Beardie> welshdragon will be pleased
23:08:41  <Beardie> Class 37s png and pcxs added D:
23:08:43  <Beardie> :D
23:08:46  <welshdragon> :o
23:08:49  <welshdragon> :D
23:08:55  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: British Rail OpenTTD Set - Revision 2: Added Class 37 Png and Pcx Files @ (by Beardie27)
23:08:58  <Beardie> there
23:09:09  <Beardie> need a Class 37 nfo though lol
23:09:12  <welshdragon> hmm
23:09:13  <Frankr> Audigex
23:09:18  <Audigex> yup?
23:09:20  <welshdragon> I have lost Mercurial
23:09:33  <Frankr> You could always use the create new view in GIMP
23:09:45  <Frankr> and leave that zoomed out
23:10:23  <Audigex> frankr - but it doesnt pan with the zoom
23:10:31  <Audigex> if i zoom in and pan, the new view stays upt
23:10:32  <Audigex>
23:10:43  <Frankr> yh
23:11:07  <Audigex> if anyone can turn that into a grf, 140mph, decent horsepower to get 10 cars to 140mph in a reasonable number of tiles, 80 people per car
23:11:09  <Frankr> just trying to help out that's all, i rarely use GIMP
23:11:16  <Audigex> i'll have their babies
23:11:33  <Frankr> that isn't incentive Audigex
23:11:39  <Frankr> lol
23:12:09  <Audigex> well, i'll also not have their babies
23:12:11  <Audigex> if they'd prefer
23:12:21  <Audigex>
23:12:27  <Audigex> thats an attempt at a pcx, no idea if it'll work
23:13:14  <Audigex> anyway, back to my A3
23:14:53  <Frankr> right well i'm pushing the newgrf stuff
23:15:12  <Audigex> pushing?
23:20:39  <welshdragon> hmm
23:20:56  <Frankr> into the repo
23:22:13  <Beardie> making that pcx now audigex
23:22:18  <Beardie> how do you want it?
23:22:30  <Beardie> how shall i send it to u?
23:22:32  <Audigex> erm
23:22:35  <Audigex> however tastes best?
23:22:38  <Audigex> i have no clue
23:22:42  <Audigex> ah
23:22:46  <Audigex> dcc?
23:22:51  <Audigex> should work on this client, maybe
23:22:53  <Audigex> if not, msn?
23:23:03  <Beardie> you added on my MSN?
23:23:12  <Beardie> nope
23:23:13  <Audigex> no idea
23:23:16  <Beardie> add me
23:23:17  <Audigex> if not, i can add it :)
23:23:25  <Beardie>
23:23:26  <Audigex> addr?
23:23:32  <Beardie> there lol
23:23:33  <Audigex> ffs stop answering before i ask!"
23:23:37  <Beardie> rofl
23:23:57  <Beardie> i can read your mind..
23:24:00  <welshdragon> what's the hg repo url?
23:24:07  * welshdragon is about to copy it
23:24:10  <welshdragon> ...
23:24:31  <Audigex> it's doing strange things
23:24:34  <Audigex>
23:24:37  <Audigex> just add me :)
23:24:49  <Audigex> its saying i have to invite you
23:25:00  <Beardie> done
23:25:06  <Beardie> its sorted on my end?
23:26:47  <welshdragon> Ammler / Beardie: what's the HG username/password?
23:27:03  * welshdragon is getting somewhere
23:27:07  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: British Rail OpenTTD Set - Revision 3: Added newgrf platform @ (by Frank)
23:28:15  <Beardie> sorry welshdragon i don't know
23:28:23  <welshdragon> hmm, ok :)
23:28:33  <Beardie> i might now just not understanding what you want lol
23:28:49  <welshdragon> what did you put in to get access to the ftp?
23:28:56  <welshdragon> (another way around it)
23:29:05  <Beardie> well first
23:29:12  <Audigex> the username might have on the end
23:29:16  <Audigex> that often throws people with ftp
23:29:22  <Beardie> cd "/c/documents and settings/...." you need a file directory
23:29:31  <Audigex> especially if they're using ftp on someone else's site and are used to their own
23:29:39  <welshdragon> i have a file directory
23:29:43  <welshdragon> that's set up
23:29:44  <Beardie> ok
23:30:28  <Beardie> hg clone ssh:// <name of folder you want probably 'bros'>
23:30:37  <Beardie> i think thats it
23:31:16  <Frankr> if you use mingw
23:31:17  <Audigex> okay, anyone willing to convert a pcx into a grf for me?
23:31:40  <Frankr> if you use tortoise
23:31:56  <welshdragon> ii'm using mercurial
23:33:07  <Beardie> Command Prompt Then
23:33:11  <Beardie> did it work what i told you?
23:33:43  <welshdragon> it's removing the /
23:33:54  <welshdragon> but i'm asking Sacro
23:34:02  <welshdragon> who uses the same OS as me :)
23:34:25  <Frankr> best do
23:34:29  <Frankr> we use windows
23:34:31  <Beardie> indeed
23:34:32  <Frankr> not OSX
23:37:21  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: British Rail OpenTTD Set - Revision 4: Added basic 01strings nfo @ (by Beardie27)
23:38:52  <Beardie> welshdragon maybe you can get some of these fisl for the ukbusset
23:39:06  <welshdragon> yeah
23:39:06  <Beardie> i could code a single bus aswell they are really easy to make :D
23:39:10  <welshdragon> :D
23:39:35  <Beardie> course give me some time and lets get the bros up and going a bit
23:39:46  <Beardie> and i am still working on WAS
23:40:06  <Frankr> rarely
23:40:10  <Frankr> lol
23:40:27  <Beardie> quiet you!
23:42:09  <Beardie> i need to work on the Optare Solo
23:42:24  <welshdragon> :D :D
23:42:34  <Beardie> the number 16 bus that runs into out estate is a Optare Solo, i keep seeing one, its annoying me LOL
23:42:39  <Beardie> our*
23:42:42  <welshdragon> LOL
23:43:02  <Beardie> THere is about 4 Optare Solos Stagecoahes working this area
23:43:11  <Beardie> Number 10, 11, 16 and i think another
23:43:38  <welshdragon> we need a dennis dart
23:43:47  <welshdragon> then that will annoy me
23:44:59  <welshdragon> right
23:45:04  <welshdragon> project for me tomorrow
23:45:24  <welshdragon> set up TortoiseHG on my PC
23:46:41  <Beardie> :D
23:50:20  <Frankr> you not got it?
23:51:47  <Beardie> welshdragon you going to like the next push i have just done :D
23:51:48  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: British Rail OpenTTD Set - Revision 5: Added Basic Class 37 NFO, Needs Completing @ (by Beardie27)
23:52:08  <welshdragon> :O
23:52:10  <welshdragon> :D
23:52:13  <Beardie> its basic
23:52:15  <Beardie> no co-ords
23:52:18  <Beardie> info is wrong
23:52:22  <Beardie> but its a start LOL
23:52:38  <Beardie> i'll sort co-ords out tomorrow maybe lol
23:53:07  <Beardie> course i am guessing, you can code welshdragon?
23:53:19  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: British Rail OpenTTD Set - Support #574: TortoiseHG @ (by welshdragon)
23:53:20  <welshdragon> nope :P
23:53:28  <welshdragon> i'm going to learn :D
23:53:33  <Beardie> andythenorth can
23:53:48  <Beardie> need someone esle helping thats all lol
23:53:51  <welshdragon> lol
23:54:12  <Frankr> WAS is a massive project as it is
23:54:29  <welshdragon> ext was saying that he thinks that the WAS should be finished first, then BROS, then UKBS
23:54:36  <Beardie> indeed
23:54:42  <Beardie> in the Alpha department
23:54:47  <welshdragon> i say why not finish them all at the same time?
23:54:48  <Beardie> i am guessing?
23:54:51  <Beardie> rofl
23:55:23  <Beardie> well with WAS we are working towards a a Alpha which will have over 250 different planes in (variations in livery not model)
23:55:59  <welshdragon> lol
23:56:03  <Beardie> once we get a WAS alpha out
23:56:08  <Beardie> we can put it on hold a bit
23:56:16  <welshdragon> I've got one of the WAS GRF's
23:56:22  <Frankr> WAs hopefully will be out before the end of Sept
23:56:23  <welshdragon> was playing on it earlier
23:56:27  <Beardie> :)
23:56:27  <Frankr> Which one
23:56:33  <Frankr> revision wise
23:56:36  <welshdragon> hmm
23:56:36  <Beardie> There are too many :P
23:56:43  <welshdragon> probably latest
23:56:52  <Beardie> once we have a Alpha it will be generic
23:57:08  <Beardie> in a snese that everyone will have the alpha
23:58:14  <Beardie> ok well welshdragon some basic files have been created and are in the repo :)
23:58:19  <welshdragon> ok
23:58:26  <welshdragon> thanks Beardie
23:58:31  <Beardie> i think this is the furthest the br set/bros has ever been in 6 years!
23:58:47  <Beardie> i kinda feel proud to be part of it :)
23:58:59  <Beardie> no problem :D

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