Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:09:46 <Ammler> oh, town names can have newline 00:11:48 *** thgergo has quit IRC 00:14:10 <OwenS> That sounds... "fun" 00:15:47 <Yexo> Ammler: yes, nml supports most of action14 (missing are "newgrf version" and "strings for parameter values") 00:16:48 <Ammler> Yexo: and syntax is like the ticket? 00:16:54 <Yexo> yes 00:17:20 <Yexo> as in the latest post by hirundo in the ticket 00:18:28 <Ammler> I don't have parameters, yet. 00:18:49 <Ammler> version is actually the only interesting thing, so there is no much lost :-) 00:29:42 <Ammler> Yexo: things like min openttd version and such will be coded by nml automatically I assume? 00:30:04 <Yexo> we had some discussion about that quite a while ago 00:30:37 <Yexo> the discussion was that nml should not do that automatically, but it should print the minimum required version to stdout when you ask for it 00:30:38 <Ammler> well, pre 1.0 features aren't interesting anymore 00:35:29 <Ammler> 01 Etampes Étampes 00:35:30 <Ammler> 01 Evreux Évreux 00:35:32 <Ammler> 01 Evry Évry 00:35:39 <Ammler> are those towns right spelled? 00:56:11 <Brot6> French Town Names - Revision 0:8263862c5aaa: Initial import/convert, based on swisstowns and Fren... (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/frenchtowns/repository/revisions/8263862c5aaa 01:00:47 <Ammler> well, stupid backup, then no Forums update, good night :-) 01:01:58 <Brot6> frenchtowns: update from to r0 done (3 errors) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/frenchtowns/nightlies/r0 01:08:27 <DJNekkid> hi mates :d 01:09:05 <DJNekkid> anyone with more then 999/1000 parts of blood in their alcohol ... current? 01:09:38 <DJNekkid> "omløp" 01:11:51 <DJNekkid> guess not, or you are asleep atm 03:06:29 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Support #1304: Mission statement (2006TTD) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1304#change-3527 03:11:07 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #1263: Toyland Rough Land (2006TTD) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1263#change-3528 06:55:15 <Brot6> Snowline mod - Revision 37:82d6dc0d0643: Doc: Update documentation for release (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/snowlinemod/repository/revisions/82d6dc0d0643 06:55:15 <Brot6> Snowline mod - Revision 38:83564a39d041: Change: Colour in description to better fit the NewGRF GUI (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/snowlinemod/repository/revisions/83564a39d041 07:00:04 <andythenorth> no foobar? 07:00:40 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #1328: Wrong power for Shinkansen 0 and 700 (Voyager1) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1328#change-3529 07:12:08 <Brot6> snowlinemod: update from 0.1.0 to 1.0.0 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/snowlinemod/releases/1.0.0 07:12:54 <Brot6> snowlinemod: update from 1.0.0 to 1.0.0 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/snowlinemod/releases/1.0.0 07:13:16 <Brot6> Snowline mod - Revision 39:d0731eef8ecf: Change: Add translations also partially to the displayed... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/snowlinemod/repository/revisions/d0731eef8ecf 07:13:16 <Brot6> Snowline mod - Revision 40:34b38d5498cd: Added tag 1.0.0 for changeset d0731eef8ecf (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/snowlinemod/repository/revisions/34b38d5498cd 07:37:58 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1334 (New): Code cleanup (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1334 08:16:11 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 508:93057414e51a: Change #1263: Variation for the rough level toyland tiles (g... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/93057414e51a 08:18:24 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #1263 (Closed): Toyland Rough Land (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1263#change-3530 08:25:06 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #682: fields don't show harvested corn or straw (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/682#change-3532 08:30:07 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #839: 4737-4742: Fizzy drink factory (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/839#change-3533 08:35:39 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1335 (Closed): Improved TT-Foundry display of deprecated... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1335 08:39:17 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1278:7a3d06be3e28: Cleanup: comment unused ID define; fi... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/7a3d06be3e28 08:39:17 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1279:5f9f43782c38: Cleanup: comment further unused ID de... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/5f9f43782c38 08:40:34 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1280:58da849467ae: Remove: redundant files from Cane Pla... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/58da849467ae 08:45:43 *** Alberth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:46:22 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1281:b47586825751: Cleanup: comment / remove all Fish Pr... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/b47586825751 08:51:25 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:52:06 *** thgergo has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:52:26 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1282:aeb93bccc853: Cleanup: comment / remove all Farm Su... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/aeb93bccc853 08:52:26 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1283:af932b053200: Cleanup: remove some missed things fo... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/af932b053200 08:54:32 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1284:dfded3d7ebc5: Cleanup: indicate some vacant IDs (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/dfded3d7ebc5 08:54:32 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1285:d9a9d7d270a8: Fix: mistake with indicating vacant IDs (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/d9a9d7d270a8 09:00:13 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1286:eaf8b2c10076: Cleanup: remove further defines / IDs... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/eaf8b2c10076 09:02:53 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1287:0a1e01f99859: Cleanup: improve further comments / f... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/0a1e01f99859 09:02:53 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1288:65f9a701ad20: Cleanup: remove some redundant colour... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/65f9a701ad20 09:10:49 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 509:13ecdfffef64: Fix #280: Remove animation pixels from red signals (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/13ecdfffef64 09:10:50 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #280 (Closed): standard signals (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/280#change-3535 09:12:44 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1289:a9e316c1c473: Cleanup: remove all references to Sur... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/a9e316c1c473 09:13:03 <planetmaker> Ammler: issue #280: I think we can keep it closed? The alignment of the signals looks ok to me. Or do you want to still play around with it? 09:13:04 <Brot6> planetmaker: Ammler: #280 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/280 "OpenGFX - Bug #280: standard signals - #openttdcoop Development Zone" 09:14:15 <planetmaker> quite a Brot-spamed channel this morning ;-) 09:17:04 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1290:ce1d6e4ff281: Cleanup: remove all references to PAR... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/ce1d6e4ff281 09:24:00 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1291:fa6c5ee55e31: Cleanup: refer to Petrol Pump instead... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/fa6c5ee55e31 09:27:48 * Terkhen will indeed need to pull 09:27:59 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1292:f9b491fc67f8: Change: rename industry_schemes.pnfo ... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/f9b491fc67f8 09:28:18 <Ammler> planetmaker: the red action colors are still in, afaik 09:28:26 <planetmaker> is it?! 09:28:42 <planetmaker> you did look at the related commit? ;-) 09:28:47 <planetmaker> r509 09:29:34 <Ammler> I didn't look at all :-P 09:29:53 <Ammler> so yes, close is fine 09:32:34 <Ammler> you converted it self? 09:32:55 <Ammler> I said, I do that, I just liked to give 2006TTD a bit time 09:36:15 <Ammler> thgergo: likes to continue with bridges :-) 09:36:24 <Ammler> someone should tell him about railtypes ;-) 09:41:44 <thgergo> hello 09:42:23 <thgergo> I have tested TBRS with shanghai maglevs. http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=49287&hilit=Shanghai+maglev 09:42:25 <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums • View topic - [OTTD] Shanghai Maglev Tracks (at www.tt-forums.net) 09:43:07 <thgergo> it gives a surface for bridges too. works like a charm, apart of that it makes bridgeheads glichy 09:43:55 <thgergo> becouse at the noment there is no way to draw a front sprite for bridgeheads... 09:45:30 <thgergo> Also the more important thing is, this overlay sprite size should be unified... Is there a standard for it already? 09:49:21 <thgergo> nice to see nutracks have overlays too... gonna test that too:) 09:51:57 <planetmaker> thgergo: there's no standard size for that 09:52:22 <planetmaker> as such a bridge set should IMHO use the usual width of bridges. Or take the usual track width and add a bit of a margin 09:54:03 <thgergo> indeed. For example shanghai maglevs also doenst fill the whole area of the original maglev. It leaves a white line in the border. 09:54:49 <planetmaker> thgergo: there hardly can be a 'default' size; it somewhat depends upon the track 09:55:01 <planetmaker> On the other hand: bridge overlay sprites are separate sprites 09:55:09 <planetmaker> Every rail types specify them separately 09:55:22 <planetmaker> So a given size by a bridge newgrf can be handled. 09:55:53 <planetmaker> Mind though that you just have vehicle sizes vary, too ;-) 09:57:02 <thgergo> what do you mean separetly? These sprites is not shared with road crossings etc? 09:57:49 <Ammler> thgergo: why not simply make a "empty" set? 09:57:54 <Ammler> no tracks at all 09:58:28 <thgergo> maybe... but what happens with the play with no new railtypes? 09:58:43 <Ammler> they can use TBRS 1.12 09:59:00 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 510:ddab40a68386: Fix #862: Gaps in the airport fences. Rework their size and ... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/ddab40a68386 09:59:00 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #862 (Closed): fences on airports (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/862#change-3536 09:59:14 <planetmaker> thgergo: that's why I proposed to make it a parameter 09:59:18 <Ammler> or you add a parameter 09:59:18 <thgergo> and whats the benifit of an "empty" set? If there something in there, it can be overlayed 09:59:39 <planetmaker> thgergo: I can't use transparency then 09:59:51 <planetmaker> like a cantilever bridge with rails where I can just look through 09:59:56 <planetmaker> which would IMHO look awesome 10:00:19 <Ammler> we also plan to make a default railtypes set 10:00:30 <thgergo> that would be an option 10:00:55 <thgergo> i also have an idea to make "empty" surfaces 10:00:56 <Ammler> so if there is no railtypes, tbrs just loads that :-) 10:01:07 <thgergo> and let the rails drawn by TBRS 10:01:29 <Ammler> yes, or error and thell the player to load that grf 10:01:31 <thgergo> but how we detect is there a new railtype or not? 10:01:45 <planetmaker> thgergo: don't add railtypes to the bridge. That'd be wrong 10:01:59 <Ammler> why? 10:02:17 <Ammler> it "has" already 10:02:24 <planetmaker> it'd make it a rail set. Not a universal bridge set 10:02:35 <planetmaker> Exactly. That's what we have. Nothing new 10:02:39 <planetmaker> Just new colour 10:03:02 <Ammler> yep, with parameter to switch off/on 10:03:34 <planetmaker> imho there's no point. 10:03:44 <thgergo> users dont like parameters 10:03:45 <planetmaker> make a rail set with the rails you want 10:03:56 <planetmaker> and bridges wich support any rail set 10:04:01 <planetmaker> modularity 10:04:11 <thgergo> yeah 10:04:15 <planetmaker> thgergo: you haven't tried trunk parameter settings yet ;-) 10:04:22 <thgergo> i have tried 10:04:44 <thgergo> but its still became a pain when you have 20 or more newgrf loaded 10:09:45 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #1329: allow trailing "," on last group(?) item (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1329#change-3537 10:11:31 *** Seberoth2 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 10:14:15 <planetmaker> thgergo: in order to summarize my view: I think a bridge set would be best supporting gameplay and available options if it just made rail bridges with the default rail types (maybe both TTD and OpenGFX) as well as without ballast+tracks available, all via parameter 10:14:40 <planetmaker> In order to support default behaviour best, my suggestion is to come with OpenGFX track sprites by default when nothing is set 10:15:03 <planetmaker> Maybe the presence of certain railtypes can be detected and the sprites w/o tracks then chosen automatically 10:16:18 <thgergo> I think ill reamove the ballast from the cantilever bridges, and suspensions... 10:16:25 <thgergo> make it transparent 10:18:07 <planetmaker> :-) 10:18:17 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 511:0c78cfb3d955: Change: Move transmitter and lighthouse to their own file (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/0c78cfb3d955 10:18:20 <Brot6> frenchtowns: update from to r0 done (3 errors) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/frenchtowns/nightlies/r0 10:18:36 <thgergo> the problem will be the automatic detection of, that will be a rail sprite drawn or not? 10:18:53 *** Seberoth has quit IRC 10:19:04 <planetmaker> yes, that's not possible 10:19:10 <planetmaker> What you can do: 10:19:19 <planetmaker> check for nutracks --> all bridges are rail types 10:19:25 <thgergo> yeah 10:19:31 <planetmaker> check for swedish rails --> normal and e-rail will be rail types 10:19:33 <planetmaker> etc pp 10:19:44 <thgergo> so when a new grf appears it makes pain 10:20:05 <planetmaker> that's why you need a parameter to disable that. 10:20:08 <thgergo> anyway, if I remove a ballast, or make unique floor for bridges, should be an option 10:20:15 <planetmaker> yep 10:20:36 <thgergo> but the trasparent bridges would be 2X darker 10:20:37 <thgergo> as now 10:21:09 <thgergo> if bridges have a default surface without rails 10:22:21 <planetmaker> why? 10:22:45 <Brot6> frenchtowns: update from r0 to r0 done (2 errors) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/frenchtowns/nightlies/r0 10:22:55 <planetmaker> You mean just because the shadowing etc requires it and it looks better? 10:23:00 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 512:e49b3ae0fb28: Change: Move the airport sprites to the infrastructure section (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/e49b3ae0fb28 10:24:43 <planetmaker> Now, that's a lot of less bugs in OpenGFX now :-) 10:25:41 <Rubidium> less bugs by moving stuff? 10:26:35 <planetmaker> nope 10:26:53 <planetmaker> by pixel pushing :-) 10:28:02 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 10:30:44 <Rubidium> so it's a tiny bit more than moving 10:31:19 <planetmaker> yep. Airport fence gaps were easier to fix than I though 10:31:21 <planetmaker> t 10:31:23 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1336 (New): Name string for Fishing Harbour broken (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1336 10:32:19 <thgergo> planetmaker: I mean if you switch on the transparency of bridges 10:32:28 <planetmaker> ah 10:32:46 <thgergo> but this issue should be done with rail owerlays just stay invisible 10:32:59 <thgergo> rather than semi transparent 10:33:04 <thgergo> in OTTD code 10:33:52 <planetmaker> what do you mean? 10:34:09 <planetmaker> you mean that even in invisible mode the overlays are drawn somewhat as transparent? 10:34:19 <planetmaker> it could be considered a bug 10:40:45 <thgergo> yeah thats indeed a bug 10:41:08 <thgergo> but with transparent mode there are many sprites drawn by bridges 10:42:16 <thgergo> for cantilever bridge where is already a 2 layers of sprites, with the railtypes there is a 3th, so everything under the bridges is getting very dark 10:46:57 <planetmaker> ah. So you make them brighter? Or is that not possible? 10:59:12 <thgergo> in the original TTD the front sprites are substracted from the back sprites 10:59:50 <thgergo> but its simply hard to maintain if you want to update your bridge, you will have to do this gain if you want to alter a bridge 11:02:39 <thgergo> hmm not true, but i saw this implementation somewhere 11:03:55 <Brot6> frenchtowns: update from to r0 done (2 errors) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/frenchtowns/nightlies/r0 11:08:04 <thgergo> planetmaker: like a cantilever bridge with rails where I can just look through 11:08:04 <thgergo> - at the noment nutracks come with ballast attachment for bridges too 11:08:58 <thgergo> thats would be better if new rails come with only rails? 11:09:22 <thgergo> in the other hand bridgeheads should have some ballast 11:11:29 <thgergo> but it wouldt look bad I think if I make a concrete surface for bridgeheads 11:12:14 <Ammler> thgergo: do you mean with transparency something like looking through glass? 11:12:47 <Ammler> isn't transparency simply nothing, so it doesn't matter how many layers you have 11:13:37 <Ammler> like alpha 0% 11:14:10 <thgergo> I mean transprency options. semi transparency is getting just dark for bridges:P 11:14:37 <Ammler> why not full transparency? 11:14:41 <thgergo> where you can set 100% invisibility or semi trnsparency for various things 11:14:56 <planetmaker> thgergo: they can't. As there are many bridges which come with tracks. Most importantly the default bridges 11:15:15 <planetmaker> What rail sets can do: check for the new TBRS and then use different bridge overlay sprites 11:15:24 <planetmaker> But first the bridge set has to support it :-) 11:15:35 <thgergo> indeed 11:16:05 <thgergo> I think will start custom surfaces for TBRS... 11:17:09 <thgergo> but the rail will in there, rails are usually placed in the same position 11:17:25 <thgergo> its can be simply overlayed just swedish rails do 11:17:46 <Ammler> monorail? 11:17:51 <planetmaker> hm :-( 11:17:58 <planetmaker> I really hope for bridges without 11:18:02 <planetmaker> Everything else is nothing new 11:18:17 <planetmaker> overpainting existing tracks is a pain 11:19:31 <thgergo> Ammler: monorails are a different issue:P 11:19:44 <planetmaker> same there then with metrotracks 11:20:00 <planetmaker> or trans rapid and maglev 11:20:33 <thgergo> these could be a 100% surface replacement 11:20:35 <Ammler> thgergo: what is the problem on making bridges without? 11:20:48 <planetmaker> thgergo: and that is ugly 11:20:59 <planetmaker> Why do you just make new bridges without support for new features? 11:21:18 <thgergo> I just thinnking the correct solution 11:21:18 *** ODM has quit IRC 11:21:29 <Ammler> wouldn't it also be easier for you? 11:21:35 <thgergo> so empty surface could be n option 11:21:43 <planetmaker> that would be: no tracks. no ballast. Just empty surface 11:21:47 <planetmaker> available via parameter 11:21:50 <Ammler> you could very simple add support for every existing rail newgrf 11:22:06 <thgergo> or automatical detection if its not being set 11:22:27 <planetmaker> that's only the next step 11:22:36 <planetmaker> and it may well fail 11:22:43 <planetmaker> if things are oddly combined 11:23:09 <planetmaker> or new rail grfs appear (which will) 11:23:59 <thgergo> then it will be downgrade to having the original bridge surfaces with ballast and rails. 11:24:14 <thgergo> if the user doent set the magic parmeter 11:24:19 *** frosch123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:24:37 <planetmaker> that's why IMHO the first step should unecessarily be: enable no surfaces via parameter 11:24:44 <planetmaker> It's error-free and future-proof 11:24:52 <planetmaker> -un 11:25:01 <thgergo> yeah 11:25:53 <planetmaker> Once the parameter solution works. Then, and only then, an automatic detection is a 2nd step. 11:26:02 <Ammler> maybe bridges are already possible to code with nml, then parameter handling would be easy 11:26:41 <thgergo> TBRS aready detects if TTRS bridges loaded 11:27:28 <thgergo> ammler is there a way to combine nfo and nml ? 11:27:41 <Ammler> not really 11:27:47 <Ammler> nml does make nfo 11:28:04 <thgergo> or an nfo can be converted to nml? 11:28:31 <Ammler> no 11:28:32 <planetmaker> the latter is not really possible 11:28:46 <planetmaker> combining nml and nfo may work. As nml can write nfo 11:28:55 <planetmaker> which might indeed be an option 11:29:05 <Ammler> yeah, but then you can as good make 2 newgrfs 11:29:18 <Ammler> as you can't intend different types 11:29:20 <planetmaker> Depends upon how you combine it 11:29:29 <planetmaker> can't what? 11:29:37 <Ammler> you can not include nfo in nml 11:29:43 <planetmaker> I could create a pnfo file for an nfo project using nml 11:30:00 <Ammler> include nml in nfo isn't really useful 11:30:01 <planetmaker> e.g. make use of the nice templating features for sprite alignment or so 11:30:08 <planetmaker> it can be :-) 11:30:23 <planetmaker> it just means you have parts of the code already in nml 11:30:36 <planetmaker> It's then easy to replace the rest by nml once those missing parts are (also) there 11:30:45 <planetmaker> and then you'd have a complete nml project 11:30:50 <thgergo> then the current number of nfo files will split into many many smaller files 11:31:21 <planetmaker> I know how such projects look like ;-) 11:31:40 <Ammler> oh, btw. thgergo, do you plan to continue on the svn project? 11:31:41 <thgergo> becouse many parts of the TTRS mixed 11:31:47 <thgergo> yes 11:31:57 <thgergo> but I dont have anything real to upload now 11:32:22 <thgergo> and I need to get familiar with svn yet again 11:32:27 <Ammler> would you whine, if we like you to change to mercurial? 11:32:41 <Ammler> ah so no :-) 11:32:58 <Ammler> if you need to get familiar with svn, you easier start using hg 11:33:05 <thgergo> I dont mind, and I have no idea whats the differency wbetheen this mercurial and svn... 11:37:11 <Ammler> thgergo: you run Linux or Windows (again)? 11:37:49 <thgergo> I have been running ubuntu in the last 2 years 11:38:33 <Ammler> so the Makefile Framework from pm would work nicely 11:51:31 <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 166:ef0d7d7b8ea9: Fix: Update script missed some files and cont... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/newgrf-makefile/repository/revisions/ef0d7d7b8ea9 12:29:05 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1337 (New): Consider removing Water cargo (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1337 12:34:17 <Brot6> French Town Names - Revision 1:540c64a5e383: Fix (r0): probability need to be equal to the amount... (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/frenchtowns/repository/revisions/540c64a5e383 12:36:38 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1338 (New): Sugar Refinery should be named Sugar Beet Fa... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1338 12:37:58 <Brot6> Swiss Town Names - Revision 11:96cc6dfbda04: Fix: see frenchtowns r1 (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/swisstowns/repository/revisions/96cc6dfbda04 12:42:42 <Rubidium> Ammler: would it make sense if people could open "feature requests" in the "town names" section for town names of other countries? 12:42:45 <Brot6> Swiss Town Names - Revision 12:ed1b06b3129b: Fix (r11): max probability is 127 (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/swisstowns/repository/revisions/ed1b06b3129b 12:42:46 <Brot6> French Town Names - Revision 2:f58265f7727a: Fix (r1): max probability is 127 (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/frenchtowns/repository/revisions/f58265f7727a 12:43:14 <Ammler> yes, if the list looks similar to the lists in data, it is a job of 5mins 12:43:51 <Rubidium> for french that's chance\ttown? 12:43:53 <Ammler> I am happy to do it :-) 12:44:16 <Ammler> Rubidium: I guess so 12:44:53 <Ammler> yep 12:45:39 <Rubidium> any limitations on the chance? 12:45:52 <Ammler> yep, 127 is max 12:48:09 <Ammler> also it is fine to post the "lists" with more columns like regions etc. it might be, that someone would like to make those more customizeable 12:49:39 <Ammler> like chtowns has 12:53:07 <Ammler> and if you really like to have effect on the changes, it is recommend to make the gaps big 12:54:44 <Rubidium> is the value interpreted as hexadecimal or a simple decimal? 12:56:45 <Ammler> decimal :-) 12:56:56 <Ammler> but good question, I never really checked 12:57:12 <Ammler> but then the last commit wouldn't work 12:58:06 <Ammler> oh, I had an issue with awk 12:58:28 <Ammler> that is why the french list has a 3rd empty column 12:59:30 <Ammler> I need to check awk, maybe there is a option I can set 13:26:54 <Ammler> Rubidium: is there a request or list or something on the forums, which I could claim? 13:28:01 <Rubidium> no, occasionally people send mails with requests for guides to translator@openttd.org 13:29:53 <Ammler> I would also like to code a "random generated" town names list 13:30:26 <Ammler> grf* not list 13:31:12 <Rubidium> I'd say, make a piece of text regarding the preconditions/requirements about those things and I'll link to that for people asking about town names 13:31:59 <Rubidium> furthermore you can add a link from OpenTTD's wiki about town names to there, from the NewGRF specs about town names and from a forum post 13:36:44 <Brot6> Swiss Town Names - Revision 13:443e3c355a10: Change: bundle with subdir (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/swisstowns/repository/revisions/443e3c355a10 13:38:21 <Ammler> there are already a lot town names grfs, you think there is still need? 13:39:06 <Brot6> French Town Names - Revision 3:dd6983898956: Change: bundle with subdir (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/frenchtowns/repository/revisions/dd6983898956 13:39:14 <Rubidium> is there a Bulgarian? 13:39:23 <Rubidium> or Belarusian? 13:41:13 <Ammler> ok, I see 13:46:43 <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 167:e4e0cea4e132: Fix: Distclean could produce unwanted output (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/newgrf-makefile/repository/revisions/e4e0cea4e132 13:47:21 <planetmaker> Rubidium: the snowline mod now has Belarusian 13:47:38 <Rubidium> aino 13:47:49 <planetmaker> :-) 13:47:56 <planetmaker> I should first read properly backlog ;-) 13:48:50 <Ammler> hmm, how long does it take, from an edit on bananas until I see it with openttd? 13:49:40 <Rubidium> dunno, don't think it does any caching though 13:51:26 <Rubidium> doesn't look like its caching 13:52:04 <Ammler> hmm 13:52:19 <Ammler> swiss towns shows the new version but still the old tags 13:52:47 <Rubidium> don't know how the tags work in bananas' web frontend 13:53:00 <Rubidium> but I reckon it doesn't update the database correctly or something 13:53:10 <Ammler> nvm 13:53:47 <Ammler> I guess, I did something wrong 13:53:50 <planetmaker> oh bugger 13:54:27 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 513:6a44f4142a23: Doc: Update changelog for release (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/6a44f4142a23 13:54:27 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 514:c55e917d7bc2: Added tag 0.4.1 for changeset 6a44f4142a23 (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/c55e917d7bc2 13:54:44 <Brot6> opengfx: update from 0.2.4 to 0.4.1 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/releases/0.4.1 13:54:59 <planetmaker> wrong xterm :-( 13:58:44 <Rubidium> oh... Ammler must be really happy with that release of OpenGFX :) 13:59:01 <planetmaker> :-) 13:59:11 <Ammler> why that big jump? 13:59:35 <Rubidium> Ammler: ellol 13:59:53 <planetmaker> retracked 14:01:08 <Ammler> ah, that is the "bugger" :-) 14:01:32 <planetmaker> I just want to move the makefile changes there.... 0.4.1 is the makefile version 14:01:48 <Ammler> that was meant for the makefile framework :-) 14:01:57 <planetmaker> yes 14:02:05 <planetmaker> wrong xterm :-) 14:02:36 <Ammler> I will fix the redmine 14:03:11 <planetmaker> I rolled back on the repo and fixed bundles. Thank you 14:03:21 <Ammler> strip 513 and 14? 14:03:35 <planetmaker> yes 14:03:43 <planetmaker> though... the repo is at 512 14:03:48 <planetmaker> or not? 14:05:26 <planetmaker> it would be ok to just remove the tag. the commit in OpenGFX named "prepare for release" is then just wrongly named; it should be called "Update Makefile to 0.4.1" 14:05:46 <planetmaker> it is correct in its diff 14:05:52 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Support #1304: Mission statement (athanasios) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1304#change-3522 14:05:52 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Support #1304: Mission statement (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1304#change-3523 14:08:53 <Ammler> planetmaker: already stripped 14:08:59 <planetmaker> thanks :-) 14:09:11 <Ammler> in redmine, so it will use what is in the repo 14:09:32 <planetmaker> the repo is only at r512 14:10:32 <Brot6> newgrf_makefile: update from 0.4.0 to 0.4.1 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/newgrf_makefile/releases/0.4.1 14:11:31 <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 168:d91313ca618d: Doc: Update changelog for release (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/newgrf-makefile/repository/revisions/d91313ca618d 14:11:31 <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 169:49d91241bb61: Added tag 0.4.1 for changeset d91313ca618d (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/newgrf-makefile/repository/revisions/49d91241bb61 14:13:07 <Ammler> current town names wiki linked ot the BlackBook and hacking src :-) 14:17:33 <planetmaker> :-) 14:18:00 <planetmaker> let's see how this updated Makefile performs 14:18:28 <planetmaker> It should fix the problems with the dep check, make things a bit better readable and allow me to then add mathijs wishes maybe a bit easier 14:18:38 <planetmaker> it works here, but... :-) 14:18:54 <Brot6> opengfx: update from 0.4.1 to 0.2.4 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/releases/0.2.4 14:19:03 <planetmaker> ... it needs testing in the wild 14:19:07 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 513:cb44f8dc4498: Change: Update Makefile to version 0.4.1 (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/cb44f8dc4498 14:19:09 <planetmaker> lol @ Brot :-) 14:22:27 <Ammler> Rubidium: http://wiki.openttd.org/Town_Names <-- fine enough? 14:22:30 <planetmaker> Ammler: I'm tempted to reject #380. Any opinion? 14:22:30 <Brot6> planetmaker: Ammler: #380 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/380 "OpenGFX - Feature #380: TTDPatch support - #openttdcoop Development Zone" 14:22:44 <Ammler> planetmaker: because? 14:22:53 <planetmaker> just because :-P 14:22:57 <Ammler> does it have a target version? 14:23:08 <planetmaker> Nope. But does it have a chance to become reality? 14:23:14 <Ammler> it is 14:23:34 <Ammler> I releases such versions 14:23:39 <planetmaker> ok :-) 14:24:01 <planetmaker> Is it possible to do that via script / makefile? 14:24:13 <planetmaker> like adding new targets? 14:24:20 <Rubidium> it's not "much" more than a #ifdef #else #endif + ttdpatch GUI sprites and making the filenames considerably shorter 14:24:30 <Rubidium> (and the same as the ones TTD expects) 14:24:55 <Ammler> he, first you liked to reject it, now you like to support it even more? 14:25:27 <planetmaker> well. Either or. It's... an open issue. Either it's addressed or rejected ;-) 14:25:42 <planetmaker> Issues are not there to sit around and gather dust :-P 14:26:52 <Ammler> well, we have different opinions about that, I know you don't like using version targets 14:28:22 <Ammler> I don't think it is worth to officially support TTDP, but we also don't need to demonstrate that we don't care about. 14:28:31 <Ammler> at least it works as I made it 14:28:38 <Ammler> I use it on my TTDP 14:28:58 <planetmaker> what do you mean with 'version target'? 14:29:08 <planetmaker> you mean release? 14:29:09 <Ammler> no version set, so no need to close 14:29:15 <planetmaker> oh 14:29:22 <Ammler> the ticket isn't on the road map 14:29:59 <planetmaker> My question is not about whether it has a version assigned or not. Rather principally 14:30:25 <planetmaker> Do we want that? Then it'd be nice, if there could be a short script which generates the TTDP thing 14:30:33 <planetmaker> Which then should be part of the repo 14:30:38 <Ammler> it is for free like it is now 14:30:45 <planetmaker> ? 14:31:00 <Ammler> I committed all needed changes to the extra grf 14:31:19 <Ammler> the only missing thing would be Makefile, which does rename the files 14:31:27 <Ammler> and add a note about how to use it 14:31:31 *** Seberoth2 has quit IRC 14:31:59 <planetmaker> oh, extra has the #ifdef? 14:32:08 <Ammler> no, not needed 14:32:12 <Ammler> Action9 14:32:16 <planetmaker> ah 14:32:29 <planetmaker> so it really only needs renaming? 14:32:36 <Ammler> we don't replace the ttdp extra grf 14:32:42 <Ammler> we add our extra like a newgrf 14:32:54 <planetmaker> ah, ok 14:33:05 <Ammler> replacing the ttdp extra would need some work :-) 14:33:07 <planetmaker> so that is also guarded by action9 14:33:20 <planetmaker> base grf for OpenTTD, normal for TTDP, right? 14:33:46 <Rubidium> technically it could be a base grf for TTDP as well (I think) 14:34:05 <planetmaker> with different GUI sprites, I guess. 14:34:08 <Ammler> yes it is 14:34:11 <planetmaker> That is afaik slightly different 14:34:18 <Ammler> but not the extra, that is like a newgrf 14:34:48 <planetmaker> what would fail, if we declared the extra the ttdpatch.grf? 14:34:57 <planetmaker> except the gui sprites? 14:35:01 <Ammler> no idea 14:35:17 <Ammler> afaik ttdp does some version check 14:35:39 <Ammler> and we miss some sprites like the snowy temperate trees 14:35:52 <planetmaker> hm, yes 14:36:14 <Ammler> also ttdp has the original files, else you can't play with it 14:36:20 <planetmaker> would you care to add that to scripts/Makefile_obg? Like target 'ttdp'? 14:36:33 <planetmaker> which puts all that stuff in the dir ttdp? 14:36:35 <Ammler> so there is no real need to replace the base graphics, imo 14:37:12 <Ammler> planetmaker: I could make a script, but not sure, if I am able to make it with Makefile 14:37:14 <Ammler> I try... 14:37:22 <planetmaker> gimme the script then :-) 14:39:15 <planetmaker> then we can call it explicitly supported 14:40:01 <planetmaker> hm, one could do a branch ttdp 14:40:18 <planetmaker> which just differs by the Makefile slightly 14:40:39 <Ammler> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/380#note-8 <-- that is what I have :-) 14:50:04 <planetmaker> that is not a script as far as I see 14:54:50 <Rubidium> for i in ogfx*.grf; do mv $i `echo $i | sed s/ogfx\(.\).*/trgr.grf/`; done 14:54:59 <Rubidium> should be fairly effective I guess 14:55:07 <planetmaker> yes :-) 14:56:12 <Ammler> I didn't use a script yet :-) 14:56:24 <planetmaker> :-) 14:56:51 <Ammler> I also made only 1 release 14:57:24 <planetmaker> :-) That's why I ask(ed). 14:57:32 <planetmaker> Why not more regularily? 15:01:14 <Ammler> hmm, I did update 0.2.1 15:35:59 <Ammler> planetmaker: if you prefer fix release dates instead on purpose, you could set those already in the roadmap 15:36:31 <planetmaker> I won't subscribe to an exact date ;-) 15:36:44 <planetmaker> I subscribe to the month :-) 15:49:35 <Ammler> ok, that just sounds like I am still not sure :-) 15:52:33 <planetmaker> Ammler: I'm sure 15:53:11 <planetmaker> But how can I know that I'll have time at, say, exactly 16th September to make the release? 15:53:20 <Ammler> why? 15:53:26 <planetmaker> exactly 15:54:03 <Ammler> well, you could go back to the nice release system we had :-P 15:54:19 <Ammler> release when we have time and need 15:56:42 <Ammler> at least you do answer all the questions rise up because you insist of not making a release :-P 16:14:36 <planetmaker> Ammler: I still want to try to address the package builders' needs for doc dir 16:14:42 <planetmaker> and install dir 16:15:11 <planetmaker> otherwise I see nothing which 'needs' doing before a release 16:15:19 <planetmaker> Even the changelog is updated locally already ;-) 16:15:44 <planetmaker> so yes, it's all in time :-) 16:16:08 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1337: Consider removing Water cargo (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1337#change-3539 16:16:13 <planetmaker> And a somewhat fixed schedule allows to schedule these things nicely _and_ test it somewhat 16:19:57 *** FooBar has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:20:11 <Brot6> firs: update from r1264 to r1292 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/nightlies/r1292 16:20:39 <Brot6> frenchtowns: update from r0 to r3 done (3 errors) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/frenchtowns/nightlies/r3 16:21:08 <Brot6> newgrf_makefile: update from r165 to r169 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/newgrf_makefile/nightlies/r169 16:21:58 <Brot6> nml: update from r683 to r687 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/nml/nightlies/r687 16:22:50 <Ammler> planetmaker: so 0.4.1 doesn't have DOCDIR and DATADIR? 16:23:21 <Brot6> opengfx: update from r506 to r513 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/nightlies/r513 16:23:52 <Brot6> snowlinemod: update from r36 to r40 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/snowlinemod/nightlies/r40 16:24:19 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1337 (Feedback): Consider removing Water cargo (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1337 16:24:19 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1337 (Feedback): Consider removing Water cargo (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1337#change-3540 16:24:19 <Brot6> swisstowns: update from r10 to r13 done (3 errors) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/swisstowns/nightlies/r13 16:24:47 <planetmaker> Ammler: not yet. No 16:25:19 <planetmaker> That will be 0.5 16:25:21 <Brot6> ttrs: update from r16 to r17 done (125 errors) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ttrs/nightlies/r17 16:25:23 <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r592), 32bpp-extra (r38), airportsplus (r53), basecosts (r20), comic-houses (r71), fish (r387), grfcodec (r237), heqs (r372), metrotrackset (r56), nforenum (r476), nutracks (r105), ogfxplus (r41), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), swedishrails (r147), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r25), worldairlinersset (r663) 16:25:38 <Ammler> but the final proposal I made is fine? 16:27:00 <planetmaker> uhm... dunno? which? 16:27:20 <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: frenchtowns (3 errors), ogfxplus (Diffsize: 6), swedishrails 16:29:18 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1264#note-5 <-- you mean that? 16:29:20 <planetmaker> yes 16:29:30 <planetmaker> that's what I consider sensible 16:30:15 <planetmaker> though posix seems to tell that the variables should come w/o the "_" 16:30:26 <Ammler> basically you do DOC_DIR = DATA_DIR = INSTALL_DIR 16:31:01 <planetmaker> I'm not entirely sure 16:31:06 <Ammler> about? 16:31:17 <planetmaker> I might change doc dir to the default doc dir 16:31:37 <Ammler> and what is default? 16:31:37 <planetmaker> /usr/local/share/doc/yourpkg 16:31:45 <Ammler> as you install to $HOME 16:31:49 <planetmaker> or without local 16:31:59 <planetmaker> I'm thinking about changing the default 16:32:05 <planetmaker> to a global install 16:32:21 <Ammler> well, every packager might need to change your defaults :-) 16:32:24 <planetmaker> which would mean that we would need to change our Makefile.local 16:32:29 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1338: Sugar Refinery should be named Sugar Beet Factory ... (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1338#change-3541 16:32:45 <planetmaker> That might be the reason to not change the intrinsic defaults, yes 16:32:59 <planetmaker> and just allow those variables 16:33:11 <planetmaker> Hm. Maybe I should do that only. 16:33:50 <Ammler> hmm, other possiblity would be to let it unset and then don't install 16:34:06 <Ammler> like the fedora guy doesn't like to install the docs 16:34:36 <planetmaker> hm 16:34:45 <planetmaker> that'd be against the license 16:34:55 <planetmaker> the readme is required 16:35:02 <Ammler> really? 16:35:10 <planetmaker> gpl requires attribution 16:35:10 <Ammler> then you should tell him, heffer 16:35:16 <planetmaker> and the readme gives the attribution 16:35:41 <planetmaker> skipping that would be not nice 16:35:55 <Ammler> well, he does install it per default 16:35:57 <planetmaker> I don't care where, whether in the doc dir or in the data dir. 16:36:04 <Ammler> but not with the Makefile 16:36:25 <planetmaker> He does not need to use the makefile to do so 16:36:34 <planetmaker> but he needs to supply the readme *somehow* 16:37:01 <Ammler> the docs are in the rpm 16:37:16 <Ammler> there might be just an option you can say "skip docs" 16:37:21 <Ammler> I have no idea about that. 16:37:55 <planetmaker> well. But what he does is to supply the rpm. With the docs 16:38:20 <planetmaker> Whether a user choses to say "trash the docs" - that's not our doing or something he can influence 16:38:37 <Ammler> yep 16:38:52 <Ammler> well, he does support that by marking the docs specially 16:39:02 <planetmaker> that's ok 16:39:05 <planetmaker> but he offers them 16:39:06 <Ammler> that is why he does install those without the make 16:39:27 <Ammler> so he does remove the docs after make install and install again manually 16:39:49 <planetmaker> he needs to call make docs anyway... or he won't have the proper ones. 16:40:01 <Ammler> that is why I think a possibility to offer DOCDIR= whcih then doesn't install the docs might be nice 16:40:04 <planetmaker> So if I offer him to install the docs separately... hm 16:40:17 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1324: Translations: support OpenTTD string format codes (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1324#change-3542 16:40:26 <planetmaker> I'll think about that. Whether and how that is possible 16:40:39 <Rubidium> planetmaker: *is* OpenGFX in violation of the license if I remove the documentation locally? 16:40:48 <planetmaker> Rubidium: no 16:40:50 <Ammler> but still I would set default of DOCDIR to DATADIR 16:41:00 <planetmaker> It was a kind of mis-understanding 16:41:12 <planetmaker> [18:38] <planetmaker> Whether a user choses to say "trash the docs" - that's not our doing or something he can influence <-- Rubidium 16:41:17 <Rubidium> good :) 16:41:26 <Rubidium> as that's how the RPM thingy works 16:41:30 <planetmaker> yep 16:41:46 <Rubidium> just not installing the docs locally; the distribution happened with docs, so according to the license 16:41:52 <Rubidium> yay for fair use and such :) 16:42:07 <planetmaker> :-) 16:42:13 <Ammler> --excludedocs do not install documentation 16:42:18 <Ammler> rpm --help ^ 16:42:54 <planetmaker> what a user does locally is up to him. If someone wants no licenses, manuals or docs... who cares? He was offered the stuff. And the "having been offered" is the important thing 16:43:05 <Ammler> but today nobody uses rpm directly 16:43:18 <Ammler> and tools like zypper doesn't support that 16:43:45 <planetmaker> right... Anyway. No rain. Shopping to do here :-) 16:43:56 <planetmaker> Talk to you later :-) 16:51:22 <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Bug #1332: Separate names for binary and source distribution (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1332#change-3543 16:56:23 *** FooBar has quit IRC 16:59:40 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Patch #1339 (New): Documentation fixes (frosch) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1339 17:04:10 <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Feature #1333: Add separate install dir for documentation files (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1333#change-3544 17:11:24 <Ammler> I would add frosch123 as dev :-) 17:14:55 <frosch123> don't expect more :) 17:15:56 <frosch123> he, i do know neither python nor nml :) 17:35:03 <Alberth> A certain sysop wants all OpenTTD devs to work on nml :) 17:36:04 <planetmaker> :-P 17:36:09 <planetmaker> choose one, Alberth :-P 17:37:12 <Alberth> s/ certain \(sysop\)/ll s/ :) 17:38:24 <planetmaker> damn. Internal parse error... I need a manual 17:38:29 <planetmaker> :-) 18:12:45 <Alberth> a grammar, I suppose :) 18:13:57 <planetmaker> hm... I guess. Now I do understand the regex :-) 18:14:26 <planetmaker> letting something rest and looking at it anew sometimes helps wonder :-) 18:23:26 <Alberth> you could have tried executing it :) 18:24:21 <planetmaker> I know... lazyness and distraction ;-). And I guessed correctly anyway what it was supposed to mean :-) 18:37:30 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1337: Consider removing Water cargo (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1337#change-3545 18:39:12 <andythenorth> no foobar? 18:48:43 *** Seberoth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 18:53:17 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1337: Consider removing Water cargo (frosch) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1337#change-3546 19:15:07 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1338: Sugar Refinery should be named Sugar Beet Factory ... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1338#change-3547 19:19:18 <frosch123> planetmaker: it's also "Zuckerrübenfabrik" 19:20:15 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1293:5be0f4616a56: Fix: restore name for Fishing Harbour (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/5be0f4616a56 19:21:17 <planetmaker> frosch123, I'd not call it that way ... 19:22:09 <planetmaker> I guess I'd call it either "Zuckerfabrik" or "Zuckerrafinerie" 19:22:18 <frosch123> *ff 19:22:28 <planetmaker> :-) 19:22:33 <planetmaker> Maybe I should ask them 19:22:52 <planetmaker> Germany's biggest sugar company has its HQ only 2km from here 19:23:19 <frosch123> i guess there are some regional or historical effects on the naming 19:24:00 <planetmaker> probably also, yes 19:24:20 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1336 (Closed): Name string for Fishing Harbour broken (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1336#change-3548 19:36:31 <planetmaker> Ammler, can you build current OpenGFX with an old grfcodec (one of the last DaleStan's one maybe) please? 19:36:50 <planetmaker> I seem to get white pixel reports with that while I don't get it with current one 19:42:25 <Ammler> planetmaker: I would try svn head, is that ok? 19:42:37 <planetmaker> probably. I had still r2177 19:43:04 <planetmaker> Hm... let's see whether that's valid... the monorail_millenium_88.pcx 19:43:51 *** FooBar has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:46:55 <andythenorth> FooBar: hi :) 19:47:10 <FooBar> and a hi to you too :) 19:47:21 <andythenorth> planetmaker: could you pull FIRS and make clean to test I haven't really broken anything (including German translation!) 19:47:32 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1294:6ef97238b7ff: Cleanup: shift industry IDs to use va... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/6ef97238b7ff 19:47:39 <Ammler> ogfx1_base.grf:2986: Warning: 19 of 440 pixels (4%) are pure white 19:47:40 <Ammler> ogfx1_base.grf:2987: Warning: 16 of 544 pixels (2%) are pure white 19:47:41 <Ammler> ogfx1_base.grf:2988: Warning: 70 of 440 pixels (15%) are pure white 19:47:43 <Ammler> ogfx1_base.grf:2989: Warning: 40 of 192 pixels (20%) are pure white 19:47:44 <Ammler> ogfx1_base.grf:2990: Warning: 29 of 440 pixels (6%) are pure white 19:47:46 <Ammler> ogfx1_base.grf:2991: Warning: 16 of 544 pixels (2%) are pure white 19:47:47 <Ammler> ogfx1_base.grf:2992: Warning: 70 of 440 pixels (15%) are pure white 19:47:48 <planetmaker> ok, same here 19:48:01 <planetmaker> now... is it real? 19:48:07 <planetmaker> It seems odd when I look at that file... 19:52:09 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:52:21 <planetmaker> looks fine so far, andythenorth 19:52:25 <FooBar> looks like we get an r1300 before 0.4-release after all :) 19:52:45 <andythenorth> FooBar: you're going to want to pull ;) 19:53:14 <FooBar> That I ususally do before I start on something 19:53:29 <andythenorth> I don't :( 19:53:39 <FooBar> could you look at #1236 to see what we should do with that? 19:53:39 <Brot6> FooBar: #1236 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/1236 "FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1236: 1 tile buffer should be ignored when player / scenario builds - #openttdcoop Development Zone" 19:54:14 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1334 (Closed): Code cleanup (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1334#change-3549 19:55:27 <planetmaker> Ammler, do you understand the warning of the old version? I think it's not valid. Or am I stupid? 19:55:45 <planetmaker> (I just want to be sure that we don't miss such thing in current build procedures) 19:56:12 <planetmaker> And I'd sleep better that current grfcodec doesn't skip correct white pixels and if that's a bug in the old one :-) 19:56:18 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1296 (Closed): Make sure TT-Foundry pages for FIRS are u... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1296#change-3550 19:56:56 <andythenorth> FooBar: code for 1236 isn't hard to add 19:57:05 <Ammler> http://mz.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/newgrf.php?1=4737:4742 <-- does now always show nightly png 19:57:09 <FooBar> I already added half of it 19:57:29 <FooBar> but particularly read my last comment on the matter 19:58:25 <Ammler> I could also update the fb script :-) 19:58:25 <Rubidium> there are pure white pixels there :( 19:58:34 <andythenorth> FooBar if it applies in the scenario editor it's either a bug with your code or in ottd :) 19:59:20 <andythenorth> do you want to paste your code? 19:59:36 <FooBar> well, what I want is that the one tile buffer applies to "many random industries" from the scenario editor, but not for manually constructed industries in the scenario editor 19:59:46 <andythenorth> ah 20:00:17 <FooBar> not having the buffer at all in the sceneditor is easy 20:00:28 <FooBar> but that wasn't what I was looking for ;) 20:00:48 <andythenorth> the same issue applies to existing clustering code 20:00:57 <andythenorth> in scenario editor 20:01:06 <andythenorth> hmm 20:01:13 <andythenorth> it's not within our control 20:01:40 <andythenorth> ask frosch123 if ottd can be changed to support your idea :) 20:01:52 <FooBar> we might want to suggest that OpenTTD returns 00 as player ID on manually constructed industries, while keeping 10h for "many random" 20:02:09 <andythenorth> 'many random industries' should play by same rules as map generator 20:02:29 <Ammler> hehe, French flag on devzone front :-D 20:03:36 <planetmaker> hm? 20:04:32 <planetmaker> <Ammler> http://mz.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/newgrf.php?1=4737:4742 <-- does now always show nightly png <-- coool :-) 20:06:45 <Ammler> also does the auhors script 20:07:00 <andythenorth> FooBar: I have various...ideas 20:07:10 <FooBar> bring 'em on :) 20:07:18 <Ammler> http://mz.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/authors/script.php?feature=spritesbyauthor 20:07:21 <planetmaker> Rubidium, are there white pixels in those sprites? That doesn't make sense to me... 20:07:24 <andythenorth> remove water we have discussed 20:07:30 <FooBar> yep, I agree to that 20:07:39 <andythenorth> one free slot :) 20:07:50 <planetmaker> I seem to have no modification in my repo and the colour picker doesn't return the pure white on suspicious pixels and alignment seems to fit... 20:08:01 <FooBar> what are we going to do with that slot? 20:08:07 <andythenorth> introduce Clay 20:08:08 <planetmaker> leave it 20:08:16 <planetmaker> empty 20:08:24 <andythenorth> make Clay accepted by Paper Mill, and new industry - Pottery 20:08:34 <andythenorth> remove Sand from Cement Plant and substitute Clay 20:08:52 <Rubidium> planetmaker: if I select the colour around the sprites I get the some pixels within the trains (millenium pcx) 20:08:58 <FooBar> agreed^3 20:09:31 <andythenorth> other thoughts 20:09:38 <andythenorth> add Brickworks - accepts Sand and Clay 20:09:51 <andythenorth> (could ditch the Pottery in that case) 20:10:04 <Rubidium> planetmaker: but for some reason there are no 0xFF pixels when grfcodec reads it 20:10:28 <FooBar> the pottery could be some sort of blacksmith-equivalent, only in early years 20:10:29 <planetmaker> Rubidium, but the amount like Ammler posted... that makes no sense 20:11:03 <Ammler> planetmaker: if I check the pcx, I have pure white in the image 20:11:05 <andythenorth> FooBar: I also thought of re-adding Cement as a cargo 20:11:09 <planetmaker> and which pixels are selected depends upon the fuzzyness of colour selection... 20:11:10 <planetmaker> hm 20:11:21 <andythenorth> I'm going to do it in an economy in any case, but maybe also for default? 20:11:37 <FooBar> cement eh, then we might need to separate the cement plant and the concrete plant 20:11:41 <andythenorth> it would need to go to a construction yard for combining with gravel 20:11:53 <andythenorth> construction yard could include a concrete casting plant 20:12:02 <FooBar> ok, that sounds fine 20:12:12 <andythenorth> what does it produce? Goods? 20:12:18 <andythenorth> ENSP? 20:12:23 <planetmaker> With the default colour picker settings I get a few pixels. But when I look at them, they have FCFCFC and not FFFFFF 20:12:25 <FooBar> maybe both 20:12:31 <andythenorth> it would be ok 20:12:42 <andythenorth> so coal -> steel -> ENSP -> mine 20:12:50 <andythenorth> coal -> cement -> ENSP -> mine 20:13:00 <andythenorth> coal -> steel -> goods -> town 20:13:11 <Ammler> planetmaker: indeed 20:13:12 <andythenorth> coal -> cement -> goods -> town 20:13:13 <FooBar> when it comes to ENSP, there's enough of that stuff around 20:13:18 <Ammler> I had threshold at 15 20:13:37 <FooBar> In my current game I don't even transport all that is created 20:13:44 <andythenorth> as long as all the chains producing it are same length, it doesn't matter 20:14:02 <FooBar> I have one oil well up to 1,368,000 liters now :o 20:14:32 <FooBar> it's also the only well on the map, but still... 20:14:36 <andythenorth> you don't have 'Allow primary production to fall' :P 20:14:48 <Ammler> planetmaker: so a bug of old grfcodec? 20:14:50 <planetmaker> yes, 15 is default 20:14:55 <planetmaker> I hope so :-) 20:15:04 <Ammler> silly 20:15:08 <planetmaker> quite 20:15:57 <FooBar> andythenorth: I have r1203 in that game, but also no parameters set. I did notice the well dropping production some time though 20:16:35 <andythenorth> if we add Clay & Cement, we lose two of the free cargo slots 20:16:41 <andythenorth> there would be four free if we sack Water 20:16:42 <planetmaker> Ammler, Rubidium was the some issue with the dimensions of the files in old grfcodecs? The file in question is 399px wide... not divisible by 2 or 4. 20:17:05 <Ammler> oh 20:17:12 <andythenorth> i.e. four slots if we remove Water, then two of those occupied by Clay and Cement 20:17:32 <FooBar> I wonder if we should sack something else as well... 20:17:39 <andythenorth> I looked 20:17:45 <andythenorth> there are a *lot* of farm cargos 20:17:59 <andythenorth> Cotton is currently not in game and I'm not missing it much 20:18:16 <FooBar> like dropping aluminium and changing steel to metal... 20:18:40 <planetmaker> then you drop aluminum ore at the same time 20:18:49 <FooBar> no, we keep bauxite 20:18:54 <planetmaker> what for? 20:18:57 <Rubidium> planetmaker: I'm bisecting it 20:18:59 <FooBar> bauxite goes to the aluminium plant and that produces metal 20:19:14 <andythenorth> it's an intriguing idea 20:19:24 <andythenorth> from the point of view of vehicles, they're identical for both cargos 20:19:30 <planetmaker> hm 20:19:31 <FooBar> thing with steel and aluminium is: both are accepted by metal foundry and machine shop, only steel is also accepted by the dock yard 20:19:32 <andythenorth> and the destinations are identical for both cargos 20:19:45 <andythenorth> dock yard doesn't exist yet, and might be a flawed idea :P 20:19:50 *** Westie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 20:19:54 <FooBar> that's a point. 20:20:07 * andythenorth thinks we don't have scrap aluminium and scrap steel :P 20:20:07 <andythenorth> we have scrap metal 20:20:16 <andythenorth> 'new metal'? 20:20:22 <planetmaker> just metal 20:20:25 <andythenorth> are should that be 'nu metal' 20:20:26 <FooBar> well, in that case, merging steel and aluminium into metal doesn't affect gameplay at all 20:20:31 <andythenorth> no 20:20:38 <andythenorth> I'll miss steel :) 20:20:43 <andythenorth> but it could go 20:20:50 <planetmaker> internally it should remain steel 20:20:57 <FooBar> possibly... 20:21:02 <planetmaker> no new cargo label please 20:21:03 <andythenorth> if beer = food, then it's fair that aluminium = metal 20:21:10 <Westie> Hey, do youse mind helping me with an error I get when starting the latest(!) version of OpenTTD-IS? 20:21:24 <andythenorth> FooBar: we might as well do it soon if we're doing it 20:21:41 <FooBar> true, better before 0.4 than after 20:21:47 <planetmaker> Westie, that depends... we don't know where your problems are 20:21:56 <Westie> nur ein moment 20:21:57 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1340 20:22:04 <Westie> http://westie.pastebin.com/kNd0yqpZ 20:22:11 <Ammler> planetmaker: I resized the image to 400x40 and now, no white errors anymore 20:22:15 <Westie> Basically, when I start IS, it crashes 20:22:23 <andythenorth> having 'metal' makes a copper add-on easier too... 20:22:31 <Westie> and that's the error log. I don't know anything about the IS mod 20:22:42 <Westie> so I don't know how to intrepret it 20:22:44 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Code Review #1340 (New): Consider consolidating Steel and Alumini... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1340 20:22:47 <andythenorth> FooBar: how could we do it without a new cargo label? 20:23:01 <FooBar> then we should keep STEL internally 20:23:15 <Ammler> Westie: where did you get IS from and which version? 20:23:15 <Rubidium> planetmaker: yes, r209 (the scanline thing) is the culprit 20:23:41 <planetmaker> Westie, there's not much _I_ can do about that either; it needs a person with visual studio to get info 20:23:46 <Westie> ah, right 20:23:51 <Westie> anyway, it's 2.1.1 from the repo 20:23:57 <FooBar> but then renaming it "Metal". Maybe add cargo subtypes Steel and Aluminium to it 20:23:57 <planetmaker> Rubidium, but I think current grfcodec trunk is right 20:24:16 <planetmaker> Westie, maybe you can attach the crash report (crash.*) in an issue to the project? 20:24:34 <planetmaker> Then it can be looked at, if and when it gets picked up again 20:24:55 <planetmaker> Keeping known bugs is a good thing :-) 20:24:57 <FooBar> yes, we should stick to STEL, that keeps vehicle sets compatible without problems 20:25:10 <andythenorth> make it so :) 20:25:10 <planetmaker> FooBar, cargo subtypes is nice indeed 20:25:21 * andythenorth dislikes cargo subtypes 20:25:23 <Westie> for some odd reason, I wonder if NewGRFs are causing the problem! 20:25:33 <Westie> no they're not. 20:25:35 <andythenorth> I have no rational reason, or if I do, I forget it 20:25:42 <andythenorth> I think cargo subtypes confuse players 20:25:56 <andythenorth> they go looking for a wagon that refits to 'Goods (Cars)' 20:26:01 <planetmaker> How do you know they're not, Westie ? 20:26:10 <Westie> Because I removed their entries from the config 20:26:14 <planetmaker> andythenorth, I disagree 20:26:23 <Westie> and then started OpenTTD-IS 20:26:25 <FooBar> we need not add those subtypes. It also just eats strings without adding to gameplay 20:26:42 <planetmaker> It adds to eye candy and atmosphere 20:27:10 <FooBar> either way, if we decide to add subtypes, we need to add them everywhere, not just with metal 20:27:51 <Westie> I'll upload the crash dumps in about 10 minutes, thanks people 20:27:58 <andythenorth> it's a translation and support headache 20:28:01 <andythenorth> they're a bad idea 20:28:02 <andythenorth> :) 20:28:16 <planetmaker> thanks for the report, Westie ! 20:28:30 <planetmaker> :-( @ andythenorth 20:28:41 <andythenorth> patch your own build :) 20:28:47 <planetmaker> tsk 20:28:48 <FooBar> either way is fine with me 20:29:02 <FooBar> so I guess there will be no cargo subtypes :P 20:29:11 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1340 (Assigned): Consolidate Steel and Aluminium to Metal (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1340 20:29:11 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1340 (Assigned): Consolidate Steel and Aluminium to Metal (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1340#change-3551 20:29:31 <planetmaker> I won't add it, no 20:29:39 <Terkhen> yeah, requiring different wagons for the same cargo would be confusing 20:30:12 <Terkhen> if that's not an issue, I don't mind subtypes either 20:30:17 <planetmaker> Terkhen, but that's not what a cargo subtype does. Or am I wrong? 20:30:29 <Terkhen> I don't know for sure either :) 20:30:37 <planetmaker> It just adds a text which says what type of food, metal or whatever that is 20:30:51 <Rubidium> planetmaker: oh, my gimp wasn't configured correctly and that's why it showed white pixels 20:30:53 <Terkhen> besides standard industries I have only played with FIRS and a bit with PBI 20:31:06 <Terkhen> and my knowlegde of the specs is still very lacking 20:31:18 <planetmaker> Rubidium, :-) Obviously I failed to communicate that 20:31:25 * Terkhen should solve that some day 20:32:13 <planetmaker> <planetmaker> With the default colour picker settings I get a few pixels. But when I look at them, they have FCFCFC and not FFFFFF <-- at 22:12 20:32:15 <frosch123> planetmaker: if the images has a width of 399 pixels, does the old grfcodec encode it correcltyß 20:32:24 <frosch123> or are the sprites slanted? 20:32:35 <planetmaker> I don't recall having issues 20:32:43 <planetmaker> And I used an old grfcodec when doing the trains 20:33:29 <frosch123> are the generated .grf identical? 20:34:56 <planetmaker> good question... 20:35:20 <planetmaker> old: ogfx1_base.grf = 1496d491d78915a667a1e28039333658 20:36:20 <planetmaker> new: ogfx1_base.grf = 1c12934b0c6699e7c9a523cc3b8dff90 20:36:26 <planetmaker> hm 20:37:12 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1341 (New): Consider adding Clay cargo, Claypit industry (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1341 20:37:12 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1342 (New): Consider adding Cement cargo, Construction Y... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1342 20:38:59 <planetmaker> ?!!! How can opengfx.obg have the same md5sum, if the line enclosed, naming ogfx1_base.grf differs?!! 20:40:26 <Rubidium> because you md5sumed the wrong file in (at least) one of the two times? 20:40:46 <Rubidium> *or* you're the lucky one that accidentally found an md5 collision 20:40:54 <planetmaker> hm... actually... opengfx.obg should not be part of the files mentioned there 20:40:54 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1341 (New): Consider adding Clay cargo, Claypit industry (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1341 20:40:54 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1343 (New): Consider removing Cotton cargo (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1343 20:40:59 <planetmaker> BUG! in the build script 20:41:43 <planetmaker> It can't have a self-referencing md5sum. At least not that easily ;-) 20:42:20 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1342 (New): Consider adding Cement cargo, Construction Y... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1342 20:43:08 <FooBar> Polish for "metal" anyone? 20:43:20 <planetmaker> translate.google 20:43:58 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1338 (Rejected): Sugar Refinery should be named Sugar Be... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1338#change-3553 20:44:41 <FooBar> well, Wikipedia gave me a disambiguation page, so I don't know if google will come up with the correct context, as wikipedia didn't either... 20:44:53 <planetmaker> oh :-) 20:45:04 <andythenorth> FooBar: what do you think of removing Cotton, or at least saving it for an Economy 20:45:26 <andythenorth> it is an important economic cargo, but there are lots of farm cargos already 20:45:34 <FooBar> possible... 20:45:57 <FooBar> I still think cotton should replace wool in tropic and be done with that... but that doesn't work with your import scheme :P 20:47:12 <planetmaker> cotton in tropic replacing wool kinda makes sense 20:47:38 <FooBar> the farm cargos are fun though. Have lots of trucks transfer to a rail station and then find that livestock wagons are unavailable when you need even more trains, so now there's thousands of cows on the platforms :P 20:48:22 * Terkhen agrees 20:48:31 <planetmaker> Yep. The farms and their related stuff is one of the big plus here 20:48:41 <planetmaker> Also my favourite stuff to tend to 20:48:49 <FooBar> Terkhen: metal in Spanish is just metal, right? 20:49:24 <Terkhen> yes 20:49:40 <andythenorth> I stick to my one word argument about Wool in Tropic: Australia :P 20:50:15 <planetmaker> what was that argument? 20:50:23 <FooBar> Australia :P 20:50:24 <Terkhen> but if you remove aluminium and steel strings the new "metal" string should show up at the script and I would correct it next time I do something with FIRS 20:50:31 <planetmaker> your removal request does not state anything there... 20:51:15 <frosch123> planetmaker: the cropping differs 20:51:21 <FooBar> Terkhen: I'm correcting all strings straight away, renamed the Aluminium strings to Metal. Removing or fixing them straight away doesn't make much of a difference :) 20:51:21 <planetmaker> hm 20:51:31 <Terkhen> okay 20:52:06 <FooBar> only Polish is a bit of a problem, as my knowledge about Polish metal is a bit rusty... 20:52:12 <planetmaker> FooBar, Terkhen same gender for metal in Spanish? 20:52:23 <planetmaker> or doesn't that make a difference? 20:52:23 <andythenorth> puns of that class make me want to go to bed :P 20:52:44 <andythenorth> FooBar: if your metal is rusty, trying some polish on it :P 20:52:55 <planetmaker> outch.... 20:52:58 * FooBar laughs ass off 20:53:04 <andythenorth> brrr 20:53:10 <Terkhen> same gender for steel, aluminum and metal 20:53:11 <planetmaker> that's definitely 10€ in the bad pun box ;-) 20:53:14 <Terkhen> :) 20:53:22 <andythenorth> FooBar started it 20:53:33 <FooBar> no, I didn't... 20:53:38 <FooBar> at least, I didn't want to... 20:53:52 <FooBar> well, the rusty <=> metal joke, but not the polish... 20:54:09 <FooBar> where can I donate? 20:54:19 <andythenorth> what's left in 0.4? 20:54:28 <andythenorth> map colours are boring to fix 20:54:35 <andythenorth> the world needs more colours 20:54:39 <andythenorth> or fewer colour blind people 20:54:57 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/issues?query_id=5 20:55:00 <andythenorth> hmm incomplete cargo chains 20:55:05 <FooBar> maybe reduce the number of industries, that should leave enough colours 20:55:16 <andythenorth> maybe we could consolidate some 20:55:23 <FooBar> maybe we need a colourblind person to figure out the colours 20:55:35 <andythenorth> how about the following consolidations: "Primary Industry", "Secondary Industry" 20:55:41 <FooBar> hmmm... 20:55:45 <FooBar> that could work 20:56:00 <FooBar> the we just need a "goods factory" and a "food factory" and be done with that 20:56:13 <FooBar> maybe consolidate that as well... 20:56:16 <planetmaker> FIRS basic 20:56:20 <Terkhen> cure for colour blindness in 0.4 would be useful indeed 20:56:23 <andythenorth> FIRS dumbass 20:56:34 <FooBar> maybe don't have industries at all, just passengers and mail 20:56:36 <andythenorth> Terkhen: I've tried the best I can with current settings 20:56:48 <andythenorth> can you suggest improvements? 20:56:49 <planetmaker> FooBar, and a mail distribution centre :-) 20:57:01 <planetmaker> accepts mail. Produces mail at a rate of 90% 20:57:03 <planetmaker> :-P 20:57:05 <FooBar> yes, but implemented as house though 20:57:09 <planetmaker> loss is everywhere :-P 20:57:10 <Terkhen> I'd have to play a game for that... I haven't played in months :/ 20:57:33 <FooBar> mail distribution centre might not be a bad industry actually... 20:57:48 <FooBar> it's simple, but might be fun if you want to use trucks and such 20:57:54 *** thgergo has quit IRC 20:58:10 <Terkhen> but with different colour schemes they should be ok 20:58:41 <Terkhen> only the colour of iron ore mines gave me problems IIRC, and only in the classic green scheme 20:59:36 <planetmaker> http://colorbrewer2.org/ <-- FooBar maybe it helps 20:59:37 <Webster> Title: Colorbrewer: Color Advice for Maps (at colorbrewer2.org) 20:59:43 <planetmaker> but it only helps with 9 different colours... 20:59:53 <andythenorth> we should come back to mail another time 20:59:56 <planetmaker> Though... 21:00:08 <planetmaker> Do that for three different colours and it might be fine 21:00:50 <andythenorth> you also have to account for: 3x map colours, town buildings, town roads, and water :) 21:00:58 <planetmaker> I know 21:01:02 <Westie> found my problem from earlier - it was OpenSFX 21:01:11 <planetmaker> OpenSFX?! 21:01:22 <andythenorth> and whether you want to preserve the 'classic' colours from TTD for industries copied from original 21:01:23 <Westie> I must have added it by mistake 21:01:35 <planetmaker> Is it also problematic in plain OpenTTD 1.0.3? 21:01:50 <planetmaker> Or recent nightly? 21:02:01 <Westie> Err, let me check 21:02:16 <planetmaker> Adding it should be no mistake... it should be a pleasure :-P 21:02:30 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1260 (Feedback): Adjust various map colours (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1260#change-3554 21:02:42 <Westie> lmfao planetmaker 21:03:22 <andythenorth> consolidating to Metal also frees some industry slots :) 21:03:33 <andythenorth> (input cargo slots) 21:04:30 <Westie> Doesn't look like it causes a problem 21:05:16 <planetmaker> good :-) 21:05:31 <andythenorth> Machine Shop can now accept another cargo, such as Goods, or MNSP 21:05:33 <FooBar> andythenorth: yes, it does free some slots at the machine shop and the metal foundry 21:06:05 <andythenorth> I'll see if the foundry needs any other cargos 21:06:07 <FooBar> however, I don't think that the machine shop should require mnsp: then you need mnsp to create ensp and fmsp 21:06:37 <Westie> Yeah, it's definitely OpenSFX causing the problem 21:06:42 <Westie> just keep that in your mind 21:06:43 <Westie> :P 21:07:02 <planetmaker> :-) 21:07:17 <planetmaker> That's actually good news 21:07:20 <planetmaker> It will be a bug which is gone when the patch is updated :-) 21:07:33 <Westie> woo! 21:07:37 <planetmaker> looks like an old trunk bug... 21:07:56 <andythenorth> Foundry could accept sand (for casting) or chemicals 21:08:01 <andythenorth> or nothing 21:08:10 <planetmaker> electricity 21:08:20 <andythenorth> bah 21:08:20 <planetmaker> :-P 21:08:44 <andythenorth> FooBar: Machine Shop isn't combinatory, so MNSP could be ok? 21:08:58 * andythenorth thinks 21:09:32 <FooBar> I'm not sure 21:09:54 <andythenorth> Sandpit -> Glassworks -> MNSP 21:09:59 <FooBar> I don't think we need to boost the production of any of the supplies 21:10:11 <andythenorth> is it the boosting aspect that bothers you? 21:10:20 <andythenorth> substituting Goods would be identical 21:10:30 <andythenorth> except for boosting element 21:10:42 <FooBar> well, there's already enough farm and engineering supplies, that need not be boosted 21:11:07 <andythenorth> in all other industries, MNSP is a booster 21:11:18 <planetmaker> I find those two cargos incredibly hard to translate nicely :-( 21:11:31 <FooBar> true, but those industries don't directly generate other booster cargo's 21:11:31 <andythenorth> Goods would be an acceptable substitute, but it's not accepted by any other industries 21:12:03 <andythenorth> hmm 21:12:09 <andythenorth> so options would be: 21:12:16 <planetmaker> circle? 21:12:35 <andythenorth> (1) accept MNSP at Machine Shop (non-boosting) but doesn't fit with MNSP mechanic in rest of set 21:12:46 <planetmaker> nope. Rejected :-P 21:12:46 <FooBar> don't like that 21:12:50 <andythenorth> (2) accept Goods at Machine Shop, but Goods not accepted by any other industry 21:12:55 <andythenorth> (3) something else 21:12:57 <FooBar> possible 21:13:08 * FooBar looks into (3) 21:13:09 <andythenorth> I like the idea of, e.g. windscreens being shipped to Machine Shop 21:13:31 <Rubidium> planetmaker: http://rbijker.net/openttd/fs4077.diff you like? 21:13:32 <planetmaker> then you should call it vehicle factory :-) 21:13:52 <FooBar> hmmm... there's not much else... 21:14:08 <andythenorth> most of the cargos are primary :) 21:14:23 <andythenorth> Tyres :P 21:14:25 <FooBar> yes, and we just dropped a secondary :P 21:14:38 <Rubidium> planetmaker: param 0x7E gets the version number, but only when reading another GRF file's parameters 21:14:46 <planetmaker> looks good :-) Access to it via var 0xFE? 21:15:12 <andythenorth> Machine Shop could just have two cargos 21:15:19 <andythenorth> as could Metal Foundry 21:15:36 <planetmaker> right 0x80 offset 21:15:43 <FooBar> true, let's keep it at that and see if it needs changing later 21:16:04 <FooBar> I somehow don't seem to be able to change a TTD default string... 21:16:06 <Rubidium> uhm... s/0x7E/0xFE/ 21:16:20 * Rubidium shouldn't mess up so much 21:16:21 <FooBar> is that not possible for language FF? 21:16:41 <frosch123> planetmaker: this channel is a bit spammy, so i don't know whether someone already found the issue :p however ogfx tip encoded with grfcodec r208 and with tip, differ only in sprites 2985-2992. and they differ exactly by the thing which was fixed in r209. so, current grfcodec is fine. 21:17:00 <andythenorth> so we keep Cotton? 21:17:07 <FooBar> if you want 21:17:11 <andythenorth> I don't mind 21:17:15 <andythenorth> I'd happily remove it 21:17:22 <planetmaker> frosch123, I didn't know the cause so far. Thanks :-) 21:17:22 <andythenorth> in favour of a free slot 21:17:41 <FooBar> I'm neither in favour nor against 21:17:54 <frosch123> just take a look at those sprites encoded with the old grfcodec, they are slanted/completely broken 21:19:42 <andythenorth> I propose restricting Cotton to certain economies 21:19:49 <andythenorth> I'd rather have Cement 21:20:20 <andythenorth> it's already Tropic only, so no big loss 21:22:09 * planetmaker finds cement not... that interesting 21:23:27 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1340 (Closed): Consolidate Steel and Aluminium to Metal (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1340 21:23:27 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1343 (Closed): Consider removing Cotton cargo (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1343 21:23:27 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1343: Consider removing Cotton cargo (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1343#change-3555 21:23:27 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1343 (Closed): Consider removing Cotton cargo (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1343#change-3556 21:23:29 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1295:4282e94f43d0: Feature: consolidate aluminium and st... (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/4282e94f43d0 21:23:33 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1340 (Closed): Consolidate Steel and Aluminium to Metal (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1340#change-3557 21:23:58 <andythenorth> planetmaker: is that 'cement not interesting' or 'cement less interesting than cotton'? 21:24:52 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1296:e12ed4211fe5: Fix (r1259): don't lie about what fea... (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/e12ed4211fe5 21:25:08 <FooBar> I think cement can be at least as interesting as cotton 21:25:36 <FooBar> but it's not /that/ interesting, as basically it's just some type of goods 21:25:57 <FooBar> basically everyting is some type of goods... 21:26:09 <andythenorth> yup 21:26:11 <andythenorth> and nope 21:26:14 <andythenorth> :P 21:26:52 <FooBar> still, I don't see why I can't translate a default string... 21:27:03 <FooBar> Or was it that you can't translate default strings in OpenTTD... 21:27:10 <FooBar> it might be that... 21:27:20 * andythenorth wonders if cement plant produces anything besides cement 21:28:14 <FooBar> maybe the steel mill can produce slag and have that accepted by the cement plant... 21:28:32 <andythenorth> I had that thought :) 21:28:38 <FooBar> of fly ash 21:28:45 <andythenorth> from the non-existent power station :) 21:29:07 <andythenorth> slag and fly ash can also be used in concrete casting? 21:29:35 <FooBar> they're used in cement 21:31:00 <andythenorth> and as an additive to concrete blocks etc :) http://www.sustainableconcrete.org.uk/main.asp?page=41 21:31:02 <Webster> Title: Fly ash - The Concrete Centre (at www.sustainableconcrete.org.uk) 21:31:20 <FooBar> there's blastfurnace cement as well as flyash cement 21:32:01 <andythenorth> http://www.interbulkgroup.com/userFiles/675/Fly_Ash(lo-res).pdf 21:32:15 <andythenorth> maybe the steel mill could produce cement directly :o 21:32:27 <Terkhen> that'd be confusing 21:32:35 <FooBar> it's not very common 21:32:52 <FooBar> also, I like the looks of the cement plant 21:33:14 <andythenorth> oh I'd keep that :) 21:33:20 <FooBar> good :) 21:33:32 <planetmaker> andythenorth: cement IMHO needs quite a bit of rework of what follows to become interesting 21:33:50 <andythenorth> ideas? 21:33:55 <planetmaker> alone in the current scheme... what does it deliver to? 21:34:16 <andythenorth> currently goods -> town 21:34:31 <planetmaker> that's boring. Too often ;-) 21:34:53 <andythenorth> so cement -> construction yard -> town (goods) / primary industry (ENSP) 21:35:05 <andythenorth> but ideally, *newgrf town cargos* :P 21:35:07 <planetmaker> Like a mason 21:35:45 <planetmaker> or hardware store or a road construction depot 21:35:53 <andythenorth> all of those :) 21:36:13 * andythenorth ponders an OTTD patch for FIRS town growth cargos 21:36:15 <planetmaker> It would be nice, if there could be sub-industry types 21:36:26 <planetmaker> Like... same thing, just different name and looks 21:36:26 <andythenorth> such as? 21:36:39 <planetmaker> mason and hardware store could accept the same 21:36:46 <planetmaker> but different sprites and name 21:37:04 <andythenorth> like Retail Market and General Store in current FIRS? 21:37:04 <planetmaker> Just different industry layout 21:37:08 <andythenorth> same industry ID? 21:37:12 <frosch123> planetmaker: there is already a name callback for houses, but you will get trouble in the minimap 21:37:12 <planetmaker> probably 21:37:24 <andythenorth> minimap is why I didn't do that already 21:37:27 <planetmaker> frosch123: map doesn#t need to differ IMHO 21:37:37 <planetmaker> if the effect is the same... 21:37:49 <frosch123> there is also a legend, not only the colour 21:38:01 <andythenorth> if minimap showed accepted / produced cargos, not industry names, then the world would be a better place 21:38:13 <planetmaker> well, yes. But that could list them separately, with just the same colour attached 21:38:23 <andythenorth> so different IDs? 21:38:29 <planetmaker> I wouldn't 21:38:34 <planetmaker> Well. One could 21:38:36 <planetmaker> If there's space 21:39:08 <andythenorth> we're currently ok for industries 21:39:15 <andythenorth> I murdered a few today 21:39:38 <planetmaker> well... 21:40:02 <andythenorth> there's only 44 in current (0.4) 21:41:05 <FooBar> use IDs now and consolidate later :) 21:41:06 <planetmaker> well. Don't add too many... KISS ;-) 21:41:24 <andythenorth> I think the genie is out of that particular bottle 21:41:31 <andythenorth> "we're not in kansas anymore" 21:41:37 <planetmaker> Add one: municipal road maintenance department 21:41:56 <FooBar> there should be some coloured boxes left... 21:43:01 <andythenorth> planetmaker: suggest it on devzone 21:43:17 *** Alberth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 21:43:18 <FooBar> shall I do the remove of water as well? 21:43:19 <andythenorth> FooBar: so STEL remains for metal? 21:43:21 <planetmaker> you're writing it now anyway, do you? ;-) 21:43:24 <FooBar> andythenorth: yes 21:43:31 <FooBar> it's just called Metal now 21:43:34 <andythenorth> I'll update tt-foundry 21:43:48 <andythenorth> Water needs testing. Might have unanticipated consequences 21:44:03 <planetmaker> keep it till after 0.4 21:44:16 <FooBar> ok 21:44:40 <FooBar> I tested that desert towns can require goods as growth cargo just fine 21:45:16 <andythenorth> is it fun? 21:45:47 <frosch123> planetmaker: you are right, the minimap and fund industry window could use the action4 text which has comma like "Brewery, Bakery", while the actual industry instances use a callback to return "Brewery" or "Bakery" depending on the layout 21:46:36 *** thgergo has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 21:46:56 <FooBar> andythenorth: it's just as fun as delivering goods to a town. Alternatively, we could have desert towns require petrol instead of water 21:47:10 <andythenorth> might as well be goods 21:47:23 <andythenorth> petrol not available pre (some date) 21:47:24 <FooBar> I thought so too 21:50:18 <planetmaker> hm... it's not possible to change the town effect cargo during the game, right? 21:51:09 <andythenorth> stupid Mac. Just crashed 21:52:16 <andythenorth> FooBar: if you want to commit removal of water feel free 21:52:23 <andythenorth> wonder if players will freak? 21:52:40 <andythenorth> also implies removing water plant / tower 21:52:47 <FooBar> yep 21:52:59 <FooBar> I don't have anything to commit, but I can create that :P 21:53:24 <planetmaker> oh... FooBar you can test for TTRS version now ;-) 21:53:26 <FooBar> pm might freak, as he rather has water removed after 0.4... 21:53:47 <andythenorth> I'm easy either way 21:53:51 <FooBar> I can? Neat :) 21:54:06 <planetmaker> r20765 :-) 21:54:17 <FooBar> well, let's keep water for now then 21:54:36 <FooBar> hmmm... then FIRS must require r20765 and doesn't work with stable any more :o 21:54:44 <FooBar> wonder if players will freak? 21:55:08 <planetmaker> andythenorth: water is a big industry in fact. Just remove the imagination that you move it by the cubic meter, rather by the bottle 21:55:12 <planetmaker> as mineral water 21:55:25 <andythenorth> I've thought of that before 21:55:27 <Ammler> FooBar: only for the version check 21:55:34 <andythenorth> water could easily be in other climates 21:55:40 <Ammler> so it still works with 1.0, but nobody tells about 21:55:41 <andythenorth> might as well be Food though 21:56:02 <planetmaker> FooBar: dunno... what happens when testing an unknown var? 21:56:18 <FooBar> it usually returns FF 21:56:32 <FooBar> or as many Fses as your var is big 21:56:34 <planetmaker> Rubidium: can you tell? What if I checked that newgrf version in, say 1.0.3? Nothing, i.e. 0? 21:57:00 * andythenorth had one of these when younger http://1b.img.v4.skyrock.net/1b5/loco-passions/pics/1926387777_1.jpg 21:57:03 <planetmaker> or would that check need guarding against the version? 21:57:15 <andythenorth> France is not in Tropic zone far as I know 21:57:29 <Rubidium> planetmaker: it should return 0 21:57:38 <planetmaker> nice :-) 21:57:45 <FooBar> neat 21:57:48 <andythenorth> r20765 looks somewhat in the future :o 21:58:02 <planetmaker> :-P 21:58:10 <planetmaker> r20675 ;-) 21:58:35 <FooBar> then FIRS shouldn't require nightly per se, but only if you want to use TTRS with it 21:58:48 <FooBar> I'll add that then, but most likely not today... 21:59:07 * andythenorth feels sleepy time approaching 21:59:14 <planetmaker> FooBar: also not. But it should just fail to work with old TTRS 21:59:27 <planetmaker> which means any TTRS in current stable 21:59:31 <planetmaker> but that's fine 22:00:02 <planetmaker> Just test for the version. And if it's <7(?) create an error 22:00:14 <FooBar> well, yes, that's what I meant as well. 22:00:18 <planetmaker> :-) 22:00:41 <planetmaker> 4 more months or so and there'll be anyway OpenTTD 1.1-beta1 or so 22:01:02 <FooBar> only 4? 22:01:10 <planetmaker> My bet is on December 22:01:49 <FooBar> hmmm, I didn't know they started beta's so early, as the release is usually on april 1st 22:02:02 <planetmaker> at least last time :-) 22:02:05 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1344 (Assigned): Only allow TTRS based on Action14 version (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1344 22:03:12 <planetmaker> http://wiki.openttd.org/OpenTTD_1.0.0 <-- history 22:03:37 <planetmaker> 0.7 was considerably shorter, though 22:03:40 <FooBar> 0.7.0 beta was released only in february... 22:03:44 <FooBar> yes, that :P 22:03:55 <FooBar> then 0.6 in november 22:05:05 <FooBar> so I think it depends mostly on if a major feature is about due or not 22:05:17 <FooBar> roadtypes would be nice 22:05:38 <Rubidium> having a longer beta cycle definitely helps finding bugs and the like before we go release candidate 22:06:47 <FooBar> oh certainly, but I think you would hold a beta release if some major feature could be included by waiting, say, another month 22:07:55 <andythenorth> good night 22:08:02 <FooBar> good night 22:08:25 <FooBar> also, automatic refit if a certain cargo is selected in the purchase menu would be nice 22:18:00 <planetmaker> FooBar: I would not count that the beta would wait 22:18:06 <planetmaker> good night andythenorth 22:18:44 <planetmaker> it could then still be part of the next beta :-) 22:18:49 <FooBar> I'm not counting ;) The devs should do what they think is best 22:19:06 <planetmaker> yup :-) 22:23:12 <FooBar> also, I think it's best that I go to bed now... 22:23:14 <FooBar> good night! 22:27:08 *** FooBar has quit IRC 22:27:29 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1337: Remove Water cargo (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1337#change-3559 22:28:13 *** ODM has quit IRC 22:41:10 *** Webster has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 22:49:10 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #839: 4737-4742: Fizzy drink factory (athanasios) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/839#change-3560 23:14:13 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC 23:17:54 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 514:fb223c9ef16b: Fix: [Makefile] Don't try to include the md5sum of the descr... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/fb223c9ef16b 23:19:34 <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 170:fd31574fd96a: Fix: [obg] Don't try to include the md5sum of... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/newgrf-makefile/repository/revisions/fd31574fd96a 23:27:22 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 23:43:02 *** thgergo has quit IRC 23:49:07 <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 171:e456330181e9: Change: Make the subdir installed to configur... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/newgrf-makefile/repository/revisions/e456330181e9 23:53:27 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC 23:59:09 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 515:ed047aacb148: Fix: [Makefile] Circular dependency (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/ed047aacb148