Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 1st November 2010:
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00:47:42  <Brot6> Indonesian Town Names - Revision 38:95445a1baadf: Fix #1704: Need to declare min. compatible vers... (fanioz) @
00:47:42  <Brot6> Indonesian Town Names - Bug #1704 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (fanioz) @
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04:58:01  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 957:e1b217f0a156: Codechange: Make TRANSPARANT a normal constant. (Hirundo) @
04:58:01  <Brot6> NFORenum - Feature #1746: improve warning text (George) @
05:32:28  <Brot6> Bundles Update: g7e9b5cdd 2010-11-01 cargodist   (
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07:20:31  <planetmaker> moin
07:21:14  <Rubidium> moi
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07:42:29  <Ammler> mor
07:43:00  <Rubidium> in which language is that hello?
07:44:40  <Ammler> oh, that is truncated morgen
07:45:08  <Rubidium> tss... you think mine is a truncated moin?
07:46:27  <Ammler> hehe, I thought so :-P
07:47:01  <Rubidium> 'Finnish and Gronings Moi is mostly used as greeting like "hi" in English'
08:06:02  <dihedral> planetmaker, what are you doing up already - it's a bank holiday ^^
08:06:56  <dihedral> or should i call you fred :-)
08:08:10  <Ammler> it's "Aller Heiligen"
08:08:23  <planetmaker> which is oficial holiday only South of Frankfurt or so
08:08:27  <planetmaker> :-(
08:08:50  <dihedral> oh really? lucky me then :-D
08:09:01  <dihedral> how are you with your new nickname? :-D
08:09:03  <Ammler> cantons which don't have free on Mai 1st, have free today
08:09:24  <Ammler> oh, is pm the "fred"?
08:09:31  <planetmaker> :-D
08:09:37  <planetmaker> some call me that way
08:09:40  <dihedral> read 'big-sig' :-P
08:09:53  <Ammler> lol
08:10:02  <planetmaker> I especially like the answer in the pensylvania town names thread to that ;-)
08:13:15  <planetmaker> <-- for your enjoyment, Ammler ;-)
08:13:17  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums • View topic - Pennsylvania Town Names [stalled] (at
08:15:20  <Terkhen> :D
08:22:50  <dihedral> HEHEHE - i think he means "Fred has done this a time or two for me when I was having issues"
08:23:36  <dihedral> that's probably adding some chemistry the boy will not like :-D
08:24:43  <Ammler> and that is the ottdmaster in #openttd?
08:24:45  <planetmaker> that's the best sentence indeed ;-) - though technically I didn't upload things for kamnet really. But he's a nice guy and not demanding ;-) - and perfectly willing to work himself and take the aid given
08:24:56  <planetmaker> Ammler: no, that's another
08:25:35  <Ammler> ah no, who was the nick, someone here liked to ignore?
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08:26:10  <planetmaker> the 'fred' author is on many people's ignore, including mine
08:26:32  <planetmaker> rather the one calling me fred ;-)
08:27:01  <Ammler> frenchtowns is btw. a very outdated nml project
08:27:36  <Ammler> currently there is no nml town name project on the devzone which works
08:27:50  <planetmaker> many nml projects don't work currently ;-)
08:28:09  <Ammler> :-)
08:29:06  <Ammler> hmm, not worth to answer on this thread?
08:29:47  <planetmaker> not at all
08:30:13  <planetmaker> talking to that guy nearly put me on ignore lists of people whom I value a lot
08:30:51  <Terkhen> is there any openttdcoop game with a lot of ships?
08:31:18  <planetmaker> it probably depends on the definition of 'lots'. There are a few with some
08:31:48  <Terkhen> enough ships to slow down the game noticeably
08:31:52  * planetmaker goes looking
08:32:09  <Terkhen> I'm just searching for "ship" at the archives with not much luck
08:32:17  <planetmaker> the problem is: we transiently sometimes have. But as the game nears completion they get removed. For exaclty that reason
08:32:49  <Ammler> planetmaker: you remember the game with a big eyecandy harbor in the middle of the map?
08:33:02  <planetmaker> yes, I do. That's what I'm looking for
08:33:07  <Ammler> ok :-)
08:33:31  <Ammler> around 110-120 I would guess
08:34:26  <Ammler> this guy is stupid, he doesn't care about license but doesn't like to use gpl?
08:35:30  <planetmaker> Terkhen: psg 169
08:36:01  <Terkhen> great, thank you :)
08:36:20  <Ammler> oh wow
08:36:25  <Ammler> so new?
08:36:32  <planetmaker> 54 ships
08:36:44  <planetmaker> but it's another game, Ammler
08:37:16  <Ammler> that thread is really funny, you are so mean
08:37:37  <Ammler> is that since you became part of the dev team? :-P
08:39:03  <planetmaker> :-P I hope not
08:39:10  <planetmaker> But I didn't even reply there ;-)
08:39:39  <planetmaker> And I spend hours literally explaining this guy. But I won't do the pampers for him
08:41:30  <planetmaker> Also there's a big difference how and for what purpose people ask for help. In this case I have the strong feeling that it's unwillingness on his part I shall cover. Not something I feel inclined
08:43:29  <planetmaker> Terkhen: psg #90 is worse: 114 ships
08:43:30  <Brot6> planetmaker: Terkhen: #90 is "Infrastructure Sharing - Feature #90: Train station access - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
08:44:02  <planetmaker> and it's the game Ammler and I initially thought of :-)
08:45:01  <planetmaker> wow... that's really a quite untypical coop game: 655 trains, 244 RV, 69 aircraft, 114 ships
08:45:07  <Terkhen> thanks, I'll check that one too... since I'm already setting up everything for profiling the realistic acceleration patches I'm going to try if I can optimize ship acceleration a bit too
08:45:18  <planetmaker> :-)
08:45:39  <planetmaker> then psg 90 is the game for you ;-)
08:45:45  * Terkhen never had problems finding testing games with a lot of trains
08:46:01  <planetmaker> well, but it has all, RV, ships, trains :-)
08:46:30  <planetmaker> and it's a beautifuly eye candy game, too. As such a beauty to watch :-)
08:46:48  <Terkhen> yes, seems to be the best one to have around for testing every vehicle
08:46:52  <planetmaker> imho one of the nicest looking ones
08:47:35  <planetmaker> it could also serve as example for testing groups ;-)
08:47:45  <Ammler> else the member game 8
08:47:57  <Ammler> wd1
08:48:33  <planetmaker> hm... psg90 has signs like "made even messier /pm" :-P
08:48:55  <Ammler> you were young :-P
08:49:03  <planetmaker> :-)
08:49:13  <Ammler> maybe one of your first games?
08:49:25  <planetmaker> psg 73 was my first IIRC
08:50:36  <planetmaker> the problem where that sign is was to build a 4-way hub on a 10x10 tile island
08:50:40  <Rubidium> why am I always trying to work on this NewGRF specs "puzzle" when there are TTDPatch devs around? :(
08:50:59  <planetmaker> *no TTDPatch devs around"?
08:51:20  <Rubidium> hmm, yeah... the "no" is needed
08:51:53  <Rubidium> it's easy when I don't care about old versions of OpenTTD/TTDPatch
08:51:58  <planetmaker> a14 gender / case / plural?
08:52:18  <Rubidium> that's the easy part; it's just adding data that is ignored by the old versions
08:52:40  <Rubidium> getting stringcodes, and getting them properly ignored when they're not understood is the tricky thing
08:53:02  <planetmaker> well a14 seems to bother ttdp for anything slightly old. Maybe we should sweet talk Lakie to release a TTDP 2.5
08:53:20  <planetmaker> it'd put some people's mind to peace
08:53:56  <Rubidium> A14 isn't the problem
08:53:58  <planetmaker> how does OpenTTD complain about unknown string codes?
08:53:58  <Rubidium> A4 is
08:54:25  <Rubidium> with a small message (debug level 1)
08:54:29  <Rubidium> and then continues with the rest
08:55:35  <planetmaker> so... not a problem, just ignored?
08:56:36  <Rubidium> which is kinda troublesome as that means that all "data" of the {P a b c} and {G a b c} like number of strings, lengths of strings and the actual strings are tried to be drawn
08:56:49  <Rubidium> with funny effects all over the place
08:57:36  <planetmaker> oi
08:57:53  <Ammler> dihedral: btw. the recent console changes broke ap+ chat bridge, any idea how to fix?
08:58:09  <Rubidium> like wrongly decoding stuff, reading over the string terminator, or terminating the string upon the first {P or {G or setcase
08:58:33  <planetmaker> hmm...
08:58:55  <dihedral> Ammler: which recent console changes??
08:58:58  <Rubidium> which means it'd be effectively not backwards compatible in any way
08:59:26  <Rubidium> i.e. it's more NewGRF v8 material, which is sad
08:59:30  <Ammler> dihedral: he, pm guessed something with color codes
08:59:49  <planetmaker> random guess ^
08:59:50  <dihedral> colour codes are not printed on the dedicated sercer console
09:00:15  <Ammler> for me, the stable console and trunk console looks still the same
09:00:15  <dihedral> and define "breaks the chat bridge" please :-)
09:00:30  <Ammler> it doesn't forward ingame chat anymore
09:00:34  <dihedral> ah :-)
09:00:35  <planetmaker> Rubidium: well. But maybe it's indeed time to go for v8. We should talk it through with frosch's list of ideas
09:00:37  <dihedral> interesting
09:00:47  <dihedral> do you have timestamps enabled all of a sudden?
09:00:56  <Ammler> yes
09:01:06  <Ammler> but that isn't something new
09:01:27  <Ammler> hmm
09:03:06  <dihedral> but the other way round works?
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11:16:44  <Ammler> planetmaker: I meant xiong
11:17:02  <planetmaker> what, where?
11:20:46  <Terkhen> with openttdcoop newgrf package 8.0 + grfs from bananas I should be able to open any game from the archives, right?
11:21:04  <planetmaker> basically yes
11:21:11  <planetmaker> if not, please complain :-)
11:21:19  <Ammler> yes
11:21:28  <planetmaker> But you'll experience of course the use of compatible versions
11:23:08  <Terkhen> I'm missing three GRFs for #90, but one of them does not have a replacement (ottdc_grfpack/4_infrastructure/)
11:23:08  <Brot6> Terkhen: #90 is "Infrastructure Sharing - Feature #90: Train station access - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
11:24:36  * Terkhen wonders if the name makes any sense, as it seems to be a folder
11:25:53  <planetmaker> hm, that seems to be a folder indeed
11:26:04  <Terkhen> oh, the name does not appear at "Find missing content online" for some reaseon
11:26:14  <Terkhen> but it does appear in the list: total_bridges.grf
11:26:24  <Terkhen> s/reaseon/reason/
11:27:57  <planetmaker> you need tbrs 1.12
11:28:04  <Terkhen> it's the only one missing, after downloading it the game loads fine
11:28:30  <planetmaker> yes, the grf pack assumes you have all possible downloads from bananas. Kind of
11:28:44  <planetmaker> as we can't point to a compatible download on bananas
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11:29:19  <Ammler> we can't?
11:29:25  <Ammler> we don't need to
11:29:32  <Ammler> but bananas should
11:30:03  <planetmaker> Ammler: if there's a missing grf, the content download will only look for exact matches
11:30:36  <Ammler> oh, I see
11:30:53  <Terkhen> the center station is indeed incredible :)
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13:20:53  <dihedral> ODM, how much time do you have this week?
13:21:49  <ODM> i have some, but should also be studying:P
13:21:51  <ODM> exams next week
13:22:23  <ODM> actually i have 168 hours:D
13:22:31  <dihedral> :-P
13:22:49  <dihedral> i will try to get some stuff committed, either today or tomorrow
13:22:57  <ODM> nice
13:23:06  <dihedral> ap+ has reached an end and openttdcoop needs something workable
13:23:13  <dihedral> and i am only around for 1.5 weeks ^^
13:23:21  <dihedral> going to brazil for 3 weeks :-P
13:23:21  <ODM> going away?:)
13:23:24  <ODM> wow nice
13:23:34  <ODM> guess after that its on my shoulders uh oh:D
13:23:42  <Ammler> hehe
13:24:07  <ODM> mm brazil sounds warmer
13:24:19  <Ammler> does the Admin Interface already support command logging?
13:24:21  <dihedral> if you feel like it, you can think of a possible way of handling Economy data in joan ^^
13:24:37  <dihedral> Ammler, no, but the patch would be something like 30-40 lines
13:24:41  <dihedral> and take me max one hour
13:25:02  <dihedral> just want to have a look at the current implementation
13:25:23  <ODM> dihedral, what do you mean with economy handling? like new industries etc?
13:26:28  <dihedral> have a look at the RECEIVE command in
13:26:29  <dihedral> :-)
13:26:38  <dihedral> around line 320
13:26:49  <dihedral> i'll be back in a bit ^^
13:27:20  <ODM> cya
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13:33:13  <ODM> aah thats what you mean with economy:O
13:35:31  <ODM> is that company economy packet sent every X time? or on request? hope not on every change:P
13:36:13  <ODM> if it is sent at the end of every month (or 3 months) you could keep a history of how the game developed, with history_economy
13:38:03  <ODM> Some comments might really be useful^^
13:38:45  <ODM> btw, i am not a dev on joan, so cant change when you are gone
13:39:54  <Rubidium> IIRC you can schedule that packet to be sent every X amount of time or query for it
13:40:53  <ODM> cheers
13:41:07  <ODM> so you can keep a history, and if someone wants current info, you can ask for an update
14:17:21  <dihedral> yes :-)
14:17:50  <dihedral> you can either poll for it, or have it sent at weekly monthly quarterly or anually frequencies
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15:03:24  <ODM> and that is a setting in openttd itself?
15:05:11  <planetmaker> that's a thing you can configure as that bot via command
15:05:33  <planetmaker> you define how often you want to get notifications. IIRC
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15:07:26  <ODM> aight:)
15:08:19  * Rubidium smells a hint of Dvorak
15:08:57  <ODM> im guessing that is packet ADMIN_UPDATE_FREQUENCY
15:09:18  <ODM> aah indeed:)
15:09:49  <ODM> hmm i dont smell anything
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15:11:54  <dihedral> ODM, you can request certain updates to be sent at certain intervals, that way each bot only gets what they asked for
15:12:04  <dihedral> "Eat that bitch, you asked for it" :-P
15:12:27  <dihedral> and a history would be kinda cool :-)
15:12:47  <dihedral> though i am not sure how a good way would be to handle the history
15:16:07  <planetmaker> dihedral, piping it to a file to be viewed via web interface :-P
15:16:26  <dihedral> ...
15:16:32  <dihedral> not for joan no
15:16:57  <dihedral> joan should simply provide the handling of the network and storing stuff in objects respectively
15:17:11  <planetmaker> surely not in the lib, yes. I thought you meant grapes
15:17:21  <dihedral> nah ^^
15:17:36  <planetmaker> Joan Grapes. Sounds like a nice name, something to meet ;-)
15:17:48  <planetmaker> or someone? :-P
15:18:19  <ODM> an android!
15:18:59  <planetmaker> nah, that's in my desk's drawer
15:19:02  <planetmaker> :-P
15:23:02  <dihedral> mine is newer :-P
15:23:38  <planetmaker> hehe
15:23:43  <ODM> mine's not there:P
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17:09:54  <Brot6> nml: update from r970 to r973 done -
17:19:26  <Ammler> [15:19] <Ammler> I might do it with a http proxy
17:19:27  <Brot6> indonesiantowns: update from r37 to r38 done (1 errors) -
17:19:28  <Ammler> ah
17:19:49  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r635), 32bpp-extra (r39), ai-admiralai (r71), airportsplus (r64), basecosts (r22), belarusiantowns (r7), comic-houses (r71), firs (r1483), fish (r415), frenchtowns (r4), grfcodec (r785), heqs (r479), manindu (r5), metrotrackset (r56), newgrf_makefile (r220), nml (r973), nutracks (r117), ogfx-trains (r86), ogfx-trees (r41), opengfx (r554), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts
17:19:49  <Brot6> (r19), snowlinemod (r45), swedishrails (r187), swisstowns (r20), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r26), ttrs (r23), worldairlinersset (r667)
17:19:53  <Ammler> nmlc: "input", line 3: Unknown item in GRF-block: min_compatible_version <-- how shall I fix it now?
17:20:22  <Brot6> airportsplus: compile of r64 still failed (#1741) -
17:21:41  <Yexo> Ammler: where do you get that error?
17:21:43  <Yexo> which project?
17:21:48  <Brot6> manindu: compile of r5 still failed (#1742) -
17:21:52  <Ammler> ah
17:21:58  <Ammler> I might need to update the nml first
17:22:05  <planetmaker> :-P
17:22:23  <planetmaker> nml changed A LOT recently
17:23:45  <Brot6> swisstowns: update from r20 to r21 done -
17:23:53  <Ammler> hehe
17:23:54  <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: belarusiantowns (3 errors) (Diffsize: 21), frenchtowns (4 errors) (Diffsize: 9), ogfx-trains (1 errors) (Diffsize: 12), swedishrails (Diffsize: 6)
17:24:21  <frosch123> planetmaker: just do it like me. if compilation of your grf fails, request reverting :p
17:24:43  <planetmaker> :-P
17:24:43  <Brot6> Swiss Town Names - Revision 21:543e84eb19f0: Fix #1705, fix the nml bug here ;-) (Ammler) @
17:24:43  <Brot6> Swiss Town Names - Bug #1705 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (Ammler) @
17:25:27  <planetmaker> if that only were helpful ;-)
17:25:30  <Ammler> at least one town names grf working again
17:25:42  <planetmaker> :-)
17:26:57  <Ammler> IMO, that could easy use 0 as default, no need to require it
17:27:22  <planetmaker> require what? min_compatible_version?
17:27:26  <Ammler> yes
17:27:33  <planetmaker> It defaults to the current version
17:27:40  <Ammler> I have no newgrf, which would require something else
17:27:44  <planetmaker> requiring it is NML. But thus it makes sense
17:27:51  <planetmaker> It forces people to think about it
17:28:06  <Ammler> which is the wrong way, but that is discussed already
17:28:18  <Ammler> should be on grf level
17:28:25  <planetmaker> it is.
17:28:47  <Ammler> maybe you just assume, nml coders are more lazy then nfo coders, dunno, if that is true :-)
17:29:22  <planetmaker> where's the problem to require a minimum version?
17:29:31  <Ammler> also silly is that the same people which code a14 and nml do it different :-)
17:29:46  <planetmaker> No, it adds up perfectly:
17:29:56  <planetmaker> by default nothing is compatible - unless you tell.
17:30:06  <Ammler> planetmaker: the problem is that grf/openttd doesn't require it, so it is a bit confusing
17:30:06  <planetmaker> And then we use NML to make authors aware of it - and think about it
17:30:34  <planetmaker> Why shall we require it? It's not needed.
17:30:48  <planetmaker> But it helps to sort out compatibility issues
17:31:00  <Ammler> yeah, it is fine, it should just not fail the whole building
17:31:15  <planetmaker> it should - so that you think about it
17:31:44  <planetmaker> the only alternative is to make it optional in NML, too. But why?
17:31:49  <Ammler> setting it to 0 is not really thought about :-P
17:32:32  <planetmaker> but otherwise you leave it out - and then file a bug report that your next version newgrf is not considered compatible to the previous version
17:32:41  <planetmaker> which it would
17:32:49  <Ammler> which would be a bug
17:32:54  <Ammler> default should be 0
17:32:55  <planetmaker> in your newgrf
17:33:14  <planetmaker> the default is no compatibility
17:33:26  <Ammler> default should be like no a14
17:33:26  <planetmaker> that's the save assumption
17:33:31  <planetmaker> yes.
17:33:32  <planetmaker> it is
17:33:52  <Ammler> hmm, but then every grf with same id is compatible, isn't?
17:33:56  <planetmaker> ok, I stop it here. And now
17:33:59  <planetmaker> it's pointless
17:34:03  <Ammler> ok
17:34:17  <planetmaker> action14 should be used from now on. Not requiring it is just legacy
17:34:41  <planetmaker> v8 for grfs should require it
17:34:53  <Ammler> well, but it should require those vars also for non nml, that is what I have troubles with
17:35:22  <Ammler> I think the check is done on the wrong side
17:36:18  <planetmaker> requiring action14 removes EVERY newgrf older than 2 months from the list of acceptable newgrf. Do you want that?
17:36:24  <Ammler> nono
17:36:28  <planetmaker> you said so
17:36:35  <Ammler> if a14 is in, the vars should be required
17:36:39  <Ammler> not that a14 is required
17:39:43  <Ammler> if it wouldn't be the same people, I would report it as bug :-)
17:39:57  <Ammler> as nml devs don't respect the grf spec
17:40:05  <planetmaker> they do
17:40:36  <planetmaker> they just enforce good grfs which make it easier for noob players
17:40:52  <Ammler> and why can't that be done on grf level?
17:40:59  <Rubidium> oh, so GCC devs don't respect the assembly specs?
17:41:03  <planetmaker> the C compiler also doesn't compile every possible thing I can write in assembler. Think about it
17:41:14  * planetmaker hugs Rubidium :-)
17:42:06  <Ammler> Rubidium: I have no idea about that
17:42:07  <planetmaker> Ammler, OpenTTD has to read _all_ grfs, also those which write correct according to the specs, but bad with respect to nice usability for players
17:42:12  <planetmaker> we want to enforce the latter, too
17:42:47  <planetmaker> not enforce. Want to avoid
17:43:11  <Ammler> you still didn't tell me why not
17:43:24  <Ammler> why does openttd need to support "bad" a14?
17:43:42  <planetmaker> a14 is always optional
17:43:51  <planetmaker> it's means to provide meta information.
17:44:12  <Ammler> oh well, but if you use a14, you could do it right
17:44:15  <Ammler> like nml forces
17:44:32  <Ammler> why does it allow "bad" a14?
17:44:34  <planetmaker> then it wouldn't be as flexible as current a14
17:44:54  <Ammler> it is just silly :-)
17:44:56  <planetmaker> then it would have just been an action8b
17:44:58  <planetmaker> or so
17:45:10  <Ammler> you don't get me
17:45:18  <planetmaker> this action14 is much more future - proof
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17:45:31  <planetmaker> like min_compatible_version was only added much later
17:45:57  <planetmaker> and we can think of other things to add the same way. Maybe grf-author-supplied meta info on the category. Or stuff like that
17:47:25  <Ammler> the main problem is that because nml builds fail because of such "unneeded" errors, you might hide real faults
17:48:29  <Rubidium> Ammler: so you want NML to support the old way of ignoring it for a long time and then just before 0.1.0 ditch *everything* they don't really want to support?
17:48:42  <Ammler> no, it could warn
17:49:13  <Ammler> there isn't need to fail completely because of something which is allowed from openttd
17:49:17  <planetmaker> why? There's no legacy needed in NML
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17:49:55  <planetmaker> Ammler, it's allowed. But we don't want it. We just have to allow it as we cannot shut down all existing newgrf
17:50:29  <Ammler> and you think as warning, it would be ignored?
17:50:41  <planetmaker> why not enforce what we want?
17:50:45  <planetmaker> for _new_ stuff?
17:50:55  <Ammler> because you might hide real errors
17:51:16  <planetmaker> which error?
17:51:36  <Hirundo> Isn't it the responsibility of the user to keep his projects up to date?
17:51:44  <planetmaker> we should fail on less errors so that other errors are more prominent?
17:52:21  <planetmaker> Ammler, from NML 0.1.0 onward - then I'd agree with you. But we're not there yet
17:52:33  <planetmaker> NML has no backward compatibility
17:52:35  <Ammler> it wouldn't be the first time, NML regression succeeded, but a nml project failed because of a fault in nml
17:52:54  <planetmaker> All code in NML is subject to be broken without notice
17:53:06  <planetmaker> till 0.1.0
17:53:18  <Ammler> pm, I think, it could be forced from 0.1.0 on
17:53:23  <Ammler> but it should while dev
17:53:26  <Ammler> n't
17:54:01  <Ammler> I don't care, if my project doesn't build anymore
17:54:12  <planetmaker> honestsly, it's a very small change to make
17:54:18  <Ammler> but I thought, it could be helpful as a kind of extended regression test
17:54:47  <planetmaker> why don't you care? If you update your project you keep helping NML by continuing to provide regression tests
17:55:02  <planetmaker> especially this case is not that difficult, is it?
17:55:37  <frosch123> Ammler: please do not make nml to have to provide a compatibility mess like grfcodec
17:55:57  <frosch123> just like a look at grf version 1 to 6
17:56:11  <frosch123> they are only mess, it would have been better to trash support 1 to 5
17:56:19  <Ammler> you all take my comment from the wrong side
17:57:04  <planetmaker> I think I _meanwhile_ got what you say: keep the regression tests of the other existing newgrfs by making it an option (for now)
17:57:32  <planetmaker> but I'm not sure it's really that much of a good choice: doing that over and over would complicate code needlessly
17:57:58  <planetmaker> e.g. it'd require to do *something* about the min_compatible_version when it's not there.
17:58:09  <planetmaker> instead of just writing the whole block as-is
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19:09:55  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: update from r21068 to r21072 done -
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19:13:22  <andythenorth_> evening
19:13:34  <planetmaker> :-D
19:16:00  <andythenorth_> Terkhen: any changes on your rv speed patch since yesterday?
19:16:09  <andythenorth_> I'll compile now if not...
19:18:27  <Brot6> clientpatches: update from r21068 to r21072 done -
19:19:30  <Brot6> serverpatches: compile of r21072 still failed (#1658) -
19:22:02  <andythenorth_> hmm
19:22:23  <andythenorth_> my RV has a nominal top speed of 318mph, but will only reach 68mph in game
19:22:32  <andythenorth_> needs....more power :D
19:37:44  <andythenorth_> planetmaker: I want to reply to certain things on the FIRS thread
19:37:49  <andythenorth_> waste of time?
19:37:55  <andythenorth_> :P
19:41:24  <planetmaker> Depends on what :-)
19:41:43  <planetmaker> But _you_ shouldn't bother about how things are translated ;-)
19:42:00  <planetmaker> Eddi's latest suggestions concerning farms is what makes most sense
19:42:13  <planetmaker> or something else?
19:42:34  <andythenorth_> "ill conceived"
19:42:40  <andythenorth_> I think it deserves a rebuttal :)
19:42:59  <andythenorth_> I didn't do an instant reply - didn't want to be grumpy and flamey
19:43:09  <andythenorth_> but I've thought about it and I don't think it should pass :P
19:43:13  <planetmaker> Whatever suits you. I meanwhile chose to spare my energy and put it to more productive uses
19:43:19  <andythenorth_> :D
19:43:51  <planetmaker> But indeed it's an insult. The question is whether it's worth to reply to insults or sleights like those
19:44:15  <andythenorth_> I shall find out empirically :P
19:44:30  <andythenorth_> I have nothing I can work on seriously anyway
19:44:49  <andythenorth_> I am waiting on Terkhen's patch for HEQS 0.9.0
19:44:58  <andythenorth_> and I don't have time to do anything bigger today :)
19:45:03  * planetmaker found out by empirical results, that rather not ;-)
19:45:11  <andythenorth_> we could try and figure out consists more
19:45:20  <andythenorth_> no alberth though :(
19:45:58  <planetmaker> andythenorth_, you might test mich_cc's patch - though not sure whether Terkhen 's is nower or to what extend bysed on it.
19:46:11  <andythenorth_> I tested it as much as I could
19:46:28  <andythenorth_> it penalises HEQS vehicles somewhat :P
19:47:17  <planetmaker> that's ok - you can adopt
19:47:30  <planetmaker> it would then be the same on ttpd and ottd. or very similar
19:47:38  <andythenorth_> brr
19:47:52  <andythenorth_> so I have to choose whether to be compatible before or after a certain commit :P
19:48:19  <planetmaker> the future is 1.1
19:48:31  <planetmaker> and you'd just make them accelerate faster on 1.0.x
19:48:38  <planetmaker> that's not the worst
19:48:45  <planetmaker> Worse would be for you the other way around
19:54:44  <andythenorth_> yes
19:54:53  <andythenorth_> well if it makes trunk, I'll update HEQS
19:55:12  <andythenorth_> michi_cc: ^^
19:56:32  <michi_cc> andythenorth_: It's not clear it'll hit trunk, but thanks anyway :)
19:56:45  <andythenorth_> if it does, let me know
19:56:50  <andythenorth_> I don't see every trunk commit
19:57:07  <andythenorth_> a HEQS bug tracker ticket would be good
19:57:34  <michi_cc> Compared to eGRVTS and GermanRV HEQS does seam a bit too weak (those two could even do with an even "harder" acceleration)
19:57:50  <andythenorth_> yes
19:58:32  <andythenorth_> but I am quite happy to have some troubles on steep grades
19:58:50  <andythenorth_> otherwise road vehicles gain quite an advantage versus trains
20:06:07  <planetmaker> michi_cc, at least you got the approval by the German faction ;-)
20:08:14  <frosch123> is that good or bad?
20:10:31  <planetmaker> depends :-)
20:11:13  <planetmaker> as michi_cc's argument is along the lines, "if realistic, then properly, I don't care what TTDP does, test this" - it's ok :-)
20:11:43  * andythenorth_ wonders what reply will come to FIRS thread :P
20:13:22  <Terkhen> uwe posted saying that michi_cc's patch fits with TTDPatch too
20:14:52  <planetmaker> andythenorth_, "...until FIRS 1.0 is released..."?
20:14:58  <planetmaker> instead of HEQS?
20:15:32  <andythenorth_> :)
20:15:35  <andythenorth_> fixed
20:15:50  <planetmaker> :-)
20:15:55  <planetmaker> decent reply
20:16:21  <andythenorth_> he has to acknowledge it decently, reply, or he's trolling :P
20:16:31  <andythenorth_> or he can ignore it :)
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23:00:48  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 955:6f12b0c7592b: Codechange: Generalize the register / resolve s... (Hirundo) @
23:04:08  * planetmaker ponders what that change might imply for my newgrfs :-)
23:05:48  * Hirundo ponders what the changes in his patch queue mean for pm's newgrfs
23:07:17  <planetmaker> :-)
23:10:59  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 974:8a2521f7cc8c: Fix: frames != frame (planetmaker) @
23:13:20  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Airports - Revision 65:833ecf9519d5: Change: Use the new syntax for animation information (planetmaker) @
23:19:26  <Hirundo> planetmaker: What about ANIMATION_LOOPING ?
23:20:47  <planetmaker> probably better
23:22:10  <planetmaker> though strictly speaking not needed
23:22:20  <planetmaker> but you know that ;-)
23:26:05  <planetmaker> regression test has it
23:26:09  <planetmaker> :-)
23:26:24  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 975:b87e774bbdd9: Add: Regression for basic airport tiles, includ... (planetmaker) @
23:26:35  <Hirundo> Ah nice :)
23:27:17  <Hirundo> Strictly speaking, you can use CC_EXPRESS + CC_REFRIGERATED as max speed for a train
23:27:30  <planetmaker> loool :-)
23:27:42  <planetmaker> even as bitmask
23:28:21  <planetmaker> bitmask(CC_express+cc_refrigerated,cc_bulk) * ANIMATION_LOOPING
23:28:26  <planetmaker> :-P
23:28:52  <Hirundo> that reminds me of something *searches*
23:29:09  <planetmaker> one could then argue slightly that the readibility might not be enhanced by such use ;-)
23:30:22  <Hirundo>
23:32:58  <planetmaker> :-D
23:33:04  <planetmaker> indeed
23:34:55  <Hirundo> goodnight
23:35:19  <planetmaker> good night Hirundo

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