Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 26th April 2011:
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06:46:36  <planetmaker> moin andythenorth
06:47:06  <andythenorth> hi planetmaker
06:48:18  <planetmaker> I slowly get the impression that many of the details of FIRS are gathered from existing sets ;-)
06:48:32  <andythenorth> mostly ISR
06:48:38  <planetmaker> I fixed the attribution, thanks for that
06:48:57  <andythenorth> I'm not 100% it's accurate - ISR attribution is hazy
06:49:51  <planetmaker> would you mind, if I continued with borrowing small parts from your sets this way. It will be a long road, but I find that even adding small details already without re-drawing anything already improves stuff sometimes a lot
06:50:00  <planetmaker> s/./?/
06:50:12  <andythenorth> it's fine by me
06:50:19  <andythenorth> that's purpose of GPL yes / no?
06:50:29  <andythenorth> I take stuff from ISR whenever I need it
06:50:39  <andythenorth> I've contacted artists to ask where it's known who drew something
06:50:47  <andythenorth> otherwise I just lift it
06:50:52  <planetmaker> I couldn't stop and played a bit around with the farm: <-- same thing as before, just different ground, a tree, some tracks and two vehicles
06:51:51  <planetmaker> (yes, it will gain more, if the buildings are re-touched as well)
06:52:20  <andythenorth> farm looks ok mostly
06:52:41  <andythenorth> the barn could be retouched
06:52:55  <planetmaker> I find it always funny that they look like a brown, muddy pit with houses in it
06:53:00  <planetmaker> yep
06:53:47  <andythenorth> (the one with the trailers in it)
06:54:34  <andythenorth> there is an equivalent barn in FIRS, although it is high-contrast
06:55:39  <andythenorth> in the arable farm
06:55:57  <andythenorth> if you fill the roof grey it might work
06:56:46  <planetmaker> hm, maybe
07:02:24  <planetmaker> I noticed the slicing of the default factory and steel mill are just as bad as the one of OpenGFX was till yesterday. I wonder why they didn't do it properly, it's one of the few industries where the sprites allow that
07:02:56  <planetmaker> it's done the cheapest way possible, unlike e.g. many houses etc
07:03:59  <andythenorth> are there actual errors?
07:04:24  <planetmaker> error is a strong word. But toggle visibility of factories / steel mill
07:04:42  <planetmaker> you'll notice that the houses don't toggle, but just the part extending over the tile border
07:04:58  <planetmaker> which is ugly and inconsistent if you e.g. look at town houses. Which is much nicer
07:05:08  <andythenorth> yup
07:05:15  <planetmaker> And funnily the sprite layout of both factory and steel mill support the nicer way
07:06:07  <andythenorth> in steel  mill case, it's probably because of ground detail in ttd version
07:06:20  <planetmaker> how so?
07:07:24  <andythenorth> haven't checked, but it's probably easier to just do it the lazy way and not slice around the ground detail
07:07:35  <planetmaker> of course it is
07:07:39  <andythenorth> or maybe he was just in a hurry
07:07:59  <planetmaker> cost me quite a bit to get it right
07:08:51  <planetmaker> basically they skipped drawing a separate ground tile, that already would have helped a lot
07:09:44  <andythenorth> I have sympathy for that approach ;)
07:10:34  <planetmaker> I not really. It makes them the worst behaving industries. With a large margin
07:11:31  <planetmaker> the ground tiles don't require too much... just indicating a few wall positions
07:13:58  <planetmaker> I mean, I can understand. But I won't find it pleasant ;-)
07:17:52  <andythenorth> I wonder if he drew the steel mill early
07:18:10  <andythenorth> meh, archeology :P
07:19:41  <planetmaker> :-P
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12:04:12  <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Bug #2567 (New): CHIPS station menu includes other sets? (andythenorth) @
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13:01:16  <planetmaker> Terkhen, <-- right way to change farms?
13:01:51  <andythenorth> :P
13:01:54  <planetmaker> I'm not yet satisfied with the farm building, especially the stone next to the vehicle and the barn will need some work, too
13:02:11  <planetmaker> but I don't like the mud-pit ground tiles for farms ;-)
13:02:31  <andythenorth> well your solution isn't ugly
13:03:06  <planetmaker> free ground tiles with tracks ;-)
13:03:39  <planetmaker> My main goal, for now, is to beautify somewhat quickly some industries with easy means ;-)
13:03:54  <planetmaker> And slowly I might redraw, more seriously re-touch some actual buildings
13:04:00  <Terkhen> the ground looks way better now, yes :)
13:04:05  <planetmaker> I know that that takes MUCH more time. Much to learn I have there.
13:04:39  <andythenorth> fix that barn with the airbrush on the wall :P
13:04:41  <Terkhen> just a detail, why do they keep loaded trucks?
13:04:52  <planetmaker> andythenorth,  I might actually do that, yes .-)
13:05:01  <planetmaker> Terkhen, because it's a copy&paste from FIRS :-P
13:05:02  <andythenorth> Terkhen because the artist was too busy to unload them?
13:05:10  <Terkhen> I see :P
13:05:23  <andythenorth> planetmaker: just steal this barn:
13:05:24  <Webster> Title: TT Foundry: Pixel Creations for OpenTTD (at
13:05:28  <Terkhen> but they have the silos to store grain
13:05:35  <andythenorth> either of those barns in fact
13:05:39  <andythenorth> square or round roof
13:06:14  <andythenorth> in fact - here's a grey one:
13:06:15  <Webster> Title: TT Foundry: Pixel Creations for OpenTTD (at
13:06:23  <planetmaker> well, I could. But I'm not sure I want to steel everything ;-)
13:06:38  <planetmaker> it's easy, though ;-)
13:07:47  <planetmaker> farms are funny: they have one double-tile thing (the farm house) and the rest is randomly placed 1-tile things ground+building for each
13:07:53  <andythenorth> yarp
13:08:22  <andythenorth> half of FIRS farms are ISR sprites anyway
13:08:23  <planetmaker> at least they have their own ground tiles. That's nice
13:08:38  <planetmaker> Like oil refinery hasn't
13:08:55  <planetmaker> it uses the generic concrete one, that's it
13:09:26  <planetmaker> or coal the generic mud one
13:10:51  <andythenorth> not every industry needs detailed ground of its own :)
13:11:00  <andythenorth> sometimes less is more
13:11:18  <planetmaker> yes, and it's vain to complain ;-)
13:16:41  <andythenorth> took me a long time to figure out: an industry graphic is only good when you don't notice it in gameplay
13:17:38  <andythenorth> if that makes sense...
13:20:13  <planetmaker> it does
13:20:19  <planetmaker> I call it 'blend in'
13:20:20  <planetmaker> :-)
13:21:25  <planetmaker> which means, it's one style with the rest of the game
13:21:50  <planetmaker> and style relates to proportions, sizes, colour schemes, layouts...
13:22:29  <andythenorth> if you notice an's either too beautiful, or badly drawn...
13:22:38  <planetmaker> :-)
13:22:53  <planetmaker> I notice both steel mills. TTD and OpenGFX
13:22:57  <planetmaker> I don't like either really
13:23:08  <andythenorth> seems few people like the TTD steel mill
13:23:09  <andythenorth> I do
13:23:17  <andythenorth> what's the dislike?
13:23:54  <planetmaker> It feels too clumpy and too detailed at the same time somehow. Hard to describe
13:25:14  <andythenorth> (1) it's dark, but also high contrast
13:25:26  <andythenorth> (2) the arrangement of buildings might not actually be possible in physics
13:25:33  <andythenorth> it's quite escher-like
13:25:39  <planetmaker> :-D
13:26:21  <andythenorth> it is possible of course
13:26:32  <andythenorth> but the jumble of roofs is visually confusing
13:27:23  <planetmaker> I should visit the salzgitter AG nearby. It's Europe's 5th biggest steel producer, their headquaters is the small town next door. I see the red sky when they open the ovens at night
13:28:10  * andythenorth googles
13:28:21  <planetmaker>
13:28:22  <Webster> Title: Salzgitter AG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at
13:28:56  <andythenorth> oz has drawn a very detailed new steel mill
13:29:06  <andythenorth> too dark imho though
13:29:11  <planetmaker> he
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16:42:05  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Bug #2568 (New): ECS support (alluke) @
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17:18:12  <Brot6> chips: update from r137 to r138 done (1 errors) -
17:18:30  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Bug #2568 (Rejected): ECS support (alluke) @
17:18:31  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Bug #2568 (Rejected): ECS support (andythenorth) @
17:19:22  <Brot6> firs: update from r1986 to r1989 done -
17:19:49  <Brot6> newgrf_makefile: update from r284 to r285 done -
17:19:52  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Bug #2569 (New): ECS support (alluke) @
17:20:03  <Brot6> ogfx-industries: update from r45 to r53 done -
17:21:08  <Brot6> opengfx: update from r641 to r644 done -
17:21:15  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r750), 32bpp-extra (r40), ai-admiralai (r75), ai-aroai (r32), ailib-common (r21), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-list (r32), ailib-string (r29), ailib-tile (r16), airportsplus (r73), basecosts (r25), belarusiantowns (r8), bros (r52), comic-houses (r71), fish (r617), frenchtowns (r6), german-townnames (r30), grfcodec (r828), grfpack (r279), heqs (r605), indonesiantowns (r41),
17:21:15  <Brot6> manindu (r7), metrotrackset (r56), narvs (r37), nml (r1320), nutracks (r186), ogfx-landscape (r60), ogfx-rv (r80), ogfx-trains (r237), ogfx-trees (r42), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r49), spanishtowns (r10), swedishrails (r201), swisstowns (r22), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r26), ttrs (r36), worldairlinersset (r671)
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20:15:02  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1321:451510c85677: Doc: ast/tilelayout (yexo) @
20:18:59  <Ammler> planetmaker: rm mynewgrf-r0-source.tar <-- somewhere is still something broken, I thought, I removed that rm...
20:21:48  <Ammler> Makefile.bundles:89
20:21:52  <Ammler> no, 87
20:22:16  <Ammler> that looks very un-makish
20:36:53  <Ammler> hmm, why didn't I add the check to Makefile?
20:39:08  <Ammler> can make call make?
20:46:11  <planetmaker> yes it can. make -C <makefilename>
21:00:31  <Yexo> -f, not -C
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