Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 1st May 2011:
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09:02:23  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Landscape - Revision 61:f2bb022ce9e2: Feature: Make the 'company land' visible in transp... (planetmaker) @
09:02:23  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Landscape - Revision 62:f20422a09bde: Add: Allow company land also on steep slopes and d... (planetmaker) @
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10:11:08  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #2164 (Closed): inconsistent invisibility for industries (planetmaker) @
10:11:45  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 650:7f9b4e3f1050: Fix #2153: Wrong, untranslated colour in some bridge GUI spr... (planetmaker) @
10:11:45  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #2153 (Reopened): tubular brigde (planetmaker) @
10:14:40  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Code Review #2573 (New): Check sprite #4462 (planetmaker) @
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11:33:38  <Ammler> I don't get it, the issue with different gap in depot view against map view is in both base sets, why can't it be fixed in openttd?
11:34:48  <Rubidium> because that really breaks *all* NewGRFs
11:35:50  <Ammler> not possible to implement something like "make gap if baseset"?
11:37:05  <Rubidium> that information is somewhat lost at that time
11:37:13  <Ammler> it also seems like I am the only one who would prefer perfect view on the map instead in the vehicle views
11:41:02  <planetmaker> Ammler: I'd prefer perfect view in both cases ;-)
11:43:57  <Ammler> planetmaker: well, you sound like the issue isn't solveable
11:44:14  <planetmaker> at least not easily nor quickly
11:44:37  <Ammler> so the workaround is to make the waggons as ugly as original
11:45:15  <Ammler> just to have nice depot views :-(
11:46:23  <planetmaker> DMK will draw them with buffers on both sides. Which will give 30px
11:47:28  <planetmaker> besides, it could in principle be feasible to extend the base graphics specs such that it allows defining the sprite size in depots, too. It's nothing which would break multiplayer
11:47:30  <Ammler> yeah, that sounds like the workaround I meant :-)
11:47:35  <planetmaker> The question is "how"
11:47:46  <planetmaker> and "how much work is that"
11:48:21  <Ammler> as Rubidium said, the information needs to be restored :-)
11:48:31  <Ammler> wouldn't hurt to have it anyway
11:49:49  <Ammler> oh, btw. nice improvement of the snow, will that also go to opengfx?
11:50:18  <Yexo> where do newgrf set the bit for the length in the depot window anyway?
11:51:07  <Ammler> why not simply use the sprite length, if no such bit is set?
11:51:26  <Yexo> sprite length is useless, as (especially for older grfs) not all sprites are cropped
11:54:36  <Ammler> on the other side, for me it sounds like you could fix the "growing bug" if the map view wouldn't have that gap
11:54:41  <Ammler> at least for basesets
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12:03:10  <planetmaker> Ammler: if the feedback on that snow is positive, then 'yes'
12:03:52  <planetmaker> the problem with the altered snow is: you'll not have snow on the downward slopes of that level where I added it
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12:11:33  <Ammler> planetmaker: that's the reason, Zeph didn't add it there?
12:11:48  <Ammler> but original has it, right?
12:11:55  <Ammler> maybe something to change in openttd?
12:12:59  <planetmaker> yes, that'll be the reason it wasn't done that way in OpenGFX.
12:14:00  <planetmaker> Changing that in OpenTTD basically just means to introduce yet another snow density layer, so that is not really an optimal solution IMHO either.
12:14:40  <Ammler> he, just saw in the ps game, ogfx+landscape does also replace the shores
12:14:40  <frosch123> let's try to make pm happy
12:15:05  <Brot6> TTDViewer - Revision 28:01114ddedfb5: -Add: FileFilters to the FileChooser. (frosch) @
12:15:05  <Brot6> TTDViewer - Revision 29:cb7a4f5518d3: -Add: TTDPalette.getUnanimatedPalette(). (frosch) @
12:15:05  <Brot6> TTDViewer - Revision 30:caab91ace314: -Codechange: Refactor TTDImage and TTDDisplay to not do any... (frosch) @
12:15:05  <Brot6> TTDViewer - Revision 31:f66e69afd5d2: -Feature: Add 'save as' button. (frosch) @
12:15:08  <Brot6> TTDViewer - Revision 27:aba313421faf: -Change: Use only one instance of FileChooser for all TTDVi... (frosch) @
12:15:38  <planetmaker> :-O
12:16:26  <planetmaker> Ammler: sure. It needs to. Or it can't offer alpine climate
12:16:37  <planetmaker> it still uses the old shores, I know
12:21:09  <planetmaker> Ammler: Zephyris suggested to replace the trees in OpenGFX by the ones from OpenGFX+Trees. What's your stance on that?
12:21:16  <planetmaker> I tend to agree that it might be a good idea
12:22:45  <frosch123> ah, i see, i messed up the commit dates while using qimport :p
12:23:42  <Ammler> planetmaker: when did you fix the intro images animation?
12:24:28  <Ammler> planetmaker: I like the ogfx+trees also more
12:24:39  <Ammler> but not sure, if that should be part of the baseset
12:24:56  <planetmaker> which animation?
12:25:11  <Ammler> the yellow blinking around the images
12:25:15  <planetmaker> And why should not the base set have the nicest available graphics which fit the style?
12:25:23  <Ammler> :-)
12:25:39  <planetmaker> Did you by chance enable full animation and it was always present? I'm not aware of fixing there anything
12:25:53  <Ammler> maybe
12:26:00  <Ammler> :-o
12:26:42  <Ammler> he, that is a reason to move those settings to the adv. settings gui
12:26:54  <Ammler> then you can change that on the start menu
12:28:22  <Ammler> the yellow light on the light tower does cycle too fast
12:29:06  <Ammler> I mean on the background, there should be a lag from right to left
12:29:26  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Landscape - Feature Request #2309: Alpine climate (planetmaker) @
12:30:05  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Feature Request #2562: Ground aware "stranger" industries (planetmaker) @
12:37:21  <Ammler> ah no, it is fine, there are 2 lights
12:38:54  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Landscape - Feature Request #2309: Alpine climate (Ammler) @
12:39:14  <planetmaker> ^ of course
12:50:27  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 657:d198d73edf53: Change: Apply the changes of r645 also to the arctic farm wi... (planetmaker) @
13:06:54  <Ammler> [14:25] <planetmaker> And why should not the base set have the nicest available graphics which fit the style? <-- because it is my personal feeling, and it is a very change of style
13:07:36  <Ammler> (make a vote on tt-forums?
13:09:06  <planetmaker> why do all people always want votes?
13:09:08  <Ammler> what do you think about bundle the ogfx+ newgrf with opengfx?
13:09:27  <planetmaker> how and where? bannas doesn't allow it
13:09:38  <Terkhen> I have seen a few cases in which people confused "base graphics set" and "NewGRF"
13:09:57  <planetmaker> merging them codewise might in parts make sense. Especially for OpenGFX+ Landscape
13:10:05  <planetmaker> But probably also others
13:10:12  <planetmaker> They share lots of graphics
13:10:18  <Ammler> well, all ogfx+ newgrfs
13:10:21  <planetmaker> Still I'm not sure it'd be a good approach
13:10:28  <Terkhen> given the similarity of the names "OpenGFX" and "OpenGFX+", we would get confusing reports if they are distributed together
13:10:41  <Terkhen> all OpenGFX+ newgrfs could be distributed together without problems IMO
13:10:43  <Ammler> which doesn't hurt, does it?
13:11:22  <Ammler> the people behind ogfx+ and ogfx are the same (mainly pm :-P
13:11:37  <planetmaker> well... it'd not be really helpful, if the bug reports were addressing the wrong (new)grf
13:11:43  <Terkhen> do you mean the reports? they can be quite confusing
13:12:23  <Terkhen> I remember someone a few days ago (maybe yesterday) who said that he installed opengfx and then he did get temperate graphics in subarctic
13:12:42  <planetmaker> :-)
13:12:46  <Ammler> and that is bad?
13:12:47  <Terkhen> I still don't know if he had opengfx+ landscape enabled or if that was his way of saying that there was no snow
13:12:55  <planetmaker> it's definitely not helpful, Ammler
13:13:02  <Terkhen> Ammler: yes, because we have no clue of what might be the problem
13:13:12  <Ammler> so you think about removing ogfx+ from the newgrfs?
13:13:39  <Terkhen> no
13:13:49  <planetmaker> Uhm, they are NewGRFs...
13:13:55  <Terkhen> I just think that distributing opengfx and opengfx+ together would cause more reports like that one
13:14:10  <Ammler> you guys should really learn to ignore such reports instead always react immediately with things which are quite disturbing for regulars
13:14:21  <planetmaker> Also, Ammler where do you want to distribute it jointly? Bananas doesn't allow that
13:14:26  <Terkhen> what things?
13:14:39  <Ammler> confusing bug reports
13:14:52  <Terkhen> with what things do we react?
13:15:03  <Ammler> just ignore those until they aren't confusing, someone else can bring light in those
13:15:39  <planetmaker> who would that be if not those people who actually write and maintain the programme?
13:15:43  <Terkhen> we should do what we can to reduce confusion to a minimum, it is better for the user and for us
13:16:11  <Ammler> but it is bad for the advanced user
13:16:39  <planetmaker> why is 'reduced confusion' bad for the 'advanced' user?
13:17:03  <planetmaker> everyone profits IMHO from a clear concept
13:17:05  <Ammler> in cases, where you change code to reach that :-)
13:17:50  <planetmaker> you're basically asking to keep all UI design attrocities intact forever :-(
13:18:30  <planetmaker> and basically call the game 'done' and only add few pieces which don't intersect existing stuff at all
13:18:33  <Terkhen> I'm confused, are we talking about opengfx+ or that problem with the visualization of trains?
13:18:43  <Ammler> well, at least not change UI based on beginners
13:19:03  <Terkhen> what UI changes?
13:20:32  <Ammler> Terkhen: the main goal of openttd devs is to make the game quite comfortable for beginners
13:20:52  <Ammler> that is not always comform for the rest
13:21:45  <Terkhen> for example?
13:22:12  <Ammler> adding features which take over gameplay
13:22:20  <Terkhen> which ones?
13:23:04  <Ammler> hmm, it is hard to list those things without making people angry :-(
13:23:42  <Terkhen> I need context, I am a bit lost with the topic right now because I thought we were talking about opengfx+ :)
13:24:00  <Ammler> yeah, let us go back to ogfx+ :-)
13:24:35  <Terkhen> as you prefer, but I don't mind talking about what features are implemented in openttd either
13:27:38  <Ammler> I think, if you really don't like reports related to opengfx, you need to remove that from ogfx+
13:29:10  <Terkhen> I don't have any problems with reports related to opengfx, the only problem is the time lost (both for the reporter and for us) in the confusion
13:29:17  <Terkhen> right now it is something minor
13:29:36  <Terkhen> I merely pointed that if opengfx and opengfx+ were distributed together the confusions would be more frequent
13:31:23  <Ammler> somehow they belong togehter, so there is no confusion :-)
13:32:53  <Terkhen> they belong together, but I don't see how that prevents confusions like the one I mentioned earlier
13:33:03  <Ammler> [15:14] <planetmaker> Also, Ammler where do you want to distribute it jointly? Bananas doesn't allow that <-- the bundle on and distro packages
13:35:55  <Ammler> main distribution of ogfx isn't bananas
13:37:14  <planetmaker> but... what would be the benefit of such bundle?
13:38:14  <planetmaker> Yes, obviously the player gets some NewGRFs straight away. Which at least some people believe are worthwhile
13:38:42  <planetmaker> But wouldn't the better approach be to add some kind of recommendations or quality criterion to the bananans entries?
13:42:45  <Ammler> bananas is out of our scope, nobody is able to improve that afaik
13:44:24  <planetmaker> not?
13:44:27  <Ammler> and it would symbolize that it is highly recommend to use the ogfx+ newgrfs together with opengfx
13:47:08  <Ammler> hehe, or maybe merge those again to one newgrf :-P
14:03:02  <planetmaker> The graphics might be a good example of what could use a subrepository maybe...
14:05:09  <planetmaker> Then updating them would update all associated projects. The code is destinct anyway
14:11:58  <Ammler> planetmaker: to update the shores on ogfx+landscape, you should be able to simply copy the sprites png from ogfx, are you?
14:13:01  <planetmaker> and adjust the filename referenced
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14:24:46  <andythenorth> afternoun
14:37:07  <Terkhen> hi andythenorth
14:40:30  <andythenorth> what's new?
14:43:42  <Terkhen> not much on my part :P
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16:10:08  <Brot6> British Rail OpenTTD Set - Feature #1893 (Feedback): Class 170 'Turbostar' (welshdragon) @
16:11:22  <Brot6> British Rail OpenTTD Set - Feature #1892 (Feedback): Class 220 'Voyager'/Class 221 'Super Voyager... (welshdragon) @
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16:19:18  <Brot6> British Rail OpenTTD Set - Bug #2481: Class 365 Bug (welshdragon) @
16:25:02  <Brot6> British Rail OpenTTD Set - Feature #2489: Class 159 'Wessex Turbo' (welshdragon) @
16:25:02  <Brot6> British Rail OpenTTD Set - Feature #2488: Class 158 'Express Sprinter' (welshdragon) @
16:26:12  <Brot6> British Rail OpenTTD Set - Bug #2482: Class 373 Eurostar Livery Fire Red Fix. (welshdragon) @
16:26:57  <Brot6> British Rail OpenTTD Set - Feature #2480: Class 43 HST (welshdragon) @
16:27:57  <Brot6> British Rail OpenTTD Set - Feature #2479: Class 37 'Deltic' (welshdragon) @
16:28:03  <Brot6> mode change on /home/hg/ukbusset
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16:32:49  <Brot6> British Rail OpenTTD Set - Bug #1927 (Closed): Class 365/465/465 (welshdragon) @
16:33:30  <Brot6> British Rail OpenTTD Set - Bug #1927 (Closed): Class 365/465/465 (welshdragon) @
16:33:30  <Brot6> British Rail OpenTTD Set - Feature #1897 (Assigned): Class 365 (welshdragon) @
16:35:59  <Brot6> British Rail OpenTTD Set - Feature #1897: Class 365 (welshdragon) @
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16:37:02  <Brot6> British Rail OpenTTD Set - Feature #1897 (Assigned): Class 365 (welshdragon) @
16:38:39  <Brot6> British Rail OpenTTD Set - Feature #1897: Class 365 (welshdragon) @
16:40:52  <Brot6> British Rail OpenTTD Set - Bug #1927 (Closed): Class 365/465/465 (welshdragon) @
16:40:52  <Brot6> British Rail OpenTTD Set - Feature #1897: Class 365 (welshdragon) @
16:40:52  <Brot6> British Rail OpenTTD Set - Bug #2481 (Rejected): Class 365 Bug (welshdragon) @
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16:42:03  <Brot6> British Rail OpenTTD Set - Code Review #1925 (Assigned): backup.push to 2cc (welshdragon) @
16:43:24  <Brot6> British Rail OpenTTD Set - Feature #1911: class 465 (welshdragon) @
16:45:43  <Brot6> British Rail OpenTTD Set - Support #2574 (Feedback): Coder AWOL (welshdragon) @
16:52:15  <Brot6> British Rail OpenTTD Set - Code Review #1925: backup.push to 2cc (Ammler) @
16:55:05  <Brot6> British Rail OpenTTD Set - Code Review #1925: backup.push to 2cc (welshdragon) @
16:55:50  <welshdragon> oh dear god
16:55:59  <welshdragon> my irc bouncer just spammed me :(
16:56:10  <welshdragon> Ammler: you here my good man?
16:58:35  <Brot6> British Rail OpenTTD Set - Code Review #1925: backup.push to 2cc (Ammler) @
16:59:22  <Ammler> we can chat with ticket, no need to use irc :-P
17:00:09  <welshdragon> :P
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17:01:57  <welshdragon> Ammler, but I then get an email :(
17:02:02  <welshdragon> (as will Sacro)
17:02:08  <Sacro> ?
17:02:44  <welshdragon> support tickets that are assigned/watched by you generate emails for *every* change
17:02:49  <welshdragon> This can be changed
17:03:21  <Ammler> well, tell remove the backup.push file
17:03:41  <Ammler> I will then strip it from 2cctrainset
17:16:43  <welshdragon> I'm trying to remove it now
17:17:07  <welshdragon> i think DJNekkid has copied it for the logos
17:18:29  <Ammler> logos?
17:18:34  <Brot6> ogfx-landscape: update from r60 to r62 done -
17:18:55  <Ammler> he just copied .devzone from 2ccset
17:19:28  <Ammler> it is quite stupid to copy .devzone around as it has repo specific data only
17:19:38  <Brot6> opengfx: update from r656 to r657 done -
17:20:16  <Brot6> ttdviewer: update from r26 to r31 done -
17:20:17  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r750), 32bpp-extra (r40), ai-admiralai (r75), ai-aroai (r33), ailib-common (r21), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-list (r32), ailib-string (r29), ailib-tile (r16), airportsplus (r73), basecosts (r25), belarusiantowns (r8), bros (r52), chips (r138), comic-houses (r71), firs (r1989), fish (r617), frenchtowns (r6), german-townnames (r33), grfcodec (r828), grfpack (r279), heqs
17:20:17  <Brot6> (r605), indonesiantowns (r41), manindu (r7), metrotrackset (r56), narvs (r37), newgrf_makefile (r285), nml (r1323), nutracks (r186), ogfx-industries (r53), ogfx-rv (r80), ogfx-trains (r239), ogfx-trees (r42), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r49), spanishtowns (r10), swedishrails (r202), swisstowns (r22), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttrs (r36), worldairlinersset (r671)
17:44:45  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - Revision 136:66f8c16ca454: [Compiler] Update: new home and hgsubversion sup... (Ammler) @
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18:44:36  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - Revision 137:81c9f02b9acb: [Compiler] backup and branch support for mq (Ammler) @
18:44:36  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - Revision 138:deca6f417cfc: [HG] backup convert script (depreciated) (Ammler) @
18:44:36  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - Revision 139:bf494078fe63: [HG hook] remove .grf from "bad" file list (Ammler) @
18:49:33  <planetmaker> hu?
18:50:12  <Ammler> planetmaker: just backup old changes :-)
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19:03:46  <Brot6> test: update from  to r95 done -
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19:11:44  <Brot6> test: update from  to t1 done -
19:15:14  <Brot6> test: update from r95 to r97 done -
19:16:29  <Ammler> hmm, it works nice for me :-)
19:16:36  <Ammler> why doesn't it for others?
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19:22:59  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - Bug #2465: DevZone compile failed (Ammler) @
19:31:28  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #2575 (New): Why so many lime kilns <1900 ? (andythenorth) @
20:01:11  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 618:1b7c8fcf9caa: Change: additional utility vessel (unfinished) (andythenorth) @
20:11:35  <Brot6> Backup test: abort: no suitable response from remote hg!
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