Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 6th December 2011:
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04:22:04  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Revision 754:b7d50c94e7ff: Added a few new engines, more bugfixes (EmperorJake) @
04:24:32  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: update from r753 to r754 done (6 warnings) -
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09:23:09  <Ammler> has 1.1.4 something mentionable beside various bugfixes?
09:24:19  <Ammler> hmm, invalid license
09:24:54  <Ammler> GPLv2 needs to be replaced by GPL-2.0
09:25:37  <Ammler> worth to post a diff for the spec?
09:27:38  <planetmaker> hu?
09:27:55  <Ammler> another indication that -source is bad is that does also not make source bundles with that name, we need to rename the bundles for nml
09:28:29  <Ammler> planetmaker: "a glitch" in the spec
09:28:59  <Ammler> the short term GPLv2 is wrong spelled
09:29:08  <Ammler> it should be GPL-2.0
09:29:19  <Ammler> let me lookup the link
09:29:25  <planetmaker> specs of what? OpenTTD? NML? ...?
09:29:28  <planetmaker> err-no-context
09:29:56  <Ammler> he, how do you think, I speak about NML?
09:30:25  <planetmaker> you started talking about changing specs.
09:30:31  <planetmaker> without giving any reference.
09:30:46  <planetmaker> Thus I have no frigging clue what you talk about in which context
09:30:47  <Ammler> 1.1.4 should be quite obviou, not? :-P
09:31:02  <planetmaker> but it has no
09:31:10  <planetmaker> your turn
09:31:27  <Ammler> is part of nml, which does create source bundles which we need to rename
09:31:45  <Ammler> that is a indication that having "-source" in the bundle name is very uncommon
09:32:35  <V453000> havent you mentioned 1.1.4 in the first line?
09:33:01  <planetmaker> so. What are you now talking about, Ammler ? I'm afraid you still didn't make it clear
09:33:23  <Ammler> V453000: exactly, that should show I speak about openttd :-)
09:33:33  <planetmaker> unless you talk about two things in alternating sentences
09:33:46  <Ammler> planetmaker: no, when?
09:33:52  <Ammler> every line is about openttd
09:34:22  <planetmaker> except those about nml?
09:34:28  <Ammler> of course, it could be changed in NML too, if you want
09:34:58  <Ammler> no that line is just to show you that does also not make source bundles, with "source" in the name
09:34:59  <planetmaker> in any case: if it's wrong: please fix it or provide a patch.
09:35:07  <planetmaker> They're usually worth fixing. We're not TTDP
09:35:31  <planetmaker> or at least make a bug report ;-)
09:35:54  <planetmaker> every bug is worth fixing. Unless fixing causes a bigger bug ;-)
09:36:22  <Ammler> well, there are 2 things, one is the wrong spelling of GPL
09:36:42  <Ammler> the other one is just a glitch
09:37:39  <Ammler> you also did not answer my initial question, so I get there is nothing
09:37:54  <planetmaker> it's a bug-fix release
09:38:05  <Ammler> then I push it without any additional notes
09:38:13  <planetmaker> fixing crashes and stuff.
09:38:20  <planetmaker> Like what I wrote in the release news ;-)
09:38:35  <planetmaker> it's not yet Christmas :-P
09:38:41  <Ammler> well, sometimes there are security fixes etc, which are worth to mention
09:39:06  <planetmaker> they'd be in the changelog
09:39:13  <Ammler> or the rivers in 1.1.3
09:39:25  <Ammler> changelog is too big
09:39:34  <planetmaker> for 1.1.4?
09:39:40  <planetmaker> it's 5 lines or so
09:39:45  <Ammler> If I could use that, I would not have asked here ;-)
09:40:18  <planetmaker> if you want: it fixes and invalid write
09:40:25  <planetmaker> with specifically crafted fonts
09:40:39  <Ammler> nah, it is ok
09:40:40  <planetmaker> thus an access escalation for users with local access
09:40:48  <Ammler> I already pushed it to the suse repo
09:51:09  <planetmaker> Ammler, and if the GPL is wrongly quoted in NML (or another repo here in the install), would be nice if you could fix it
09:53:22  <Ammler> no clue about nml
09:53:42  <Ammler> only got gpl issue as I updated openttd for suse
09:54:00  <Ammler> well, maybe the issue is also just in the spec
09:54:44  <Ammler> (again, I used nml just as a example)
09:54:55  <Ammler> for another topic
11:56:37  * dihedral highfives Ammler
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17:10:10  <Brot6> DACH Trains - Revision 27:508f16b80118: release 0.2.0 (officercrockey) @
17:10:10  <Brot6> DACH Trains - Revision 28:b0f66b76741c: Etikett 0.2.0 für die Änderungsliste 508f16b80118 ergänzt (officercrockey) @
17:12:53  <Brot6> dach: update from  to 0.2.0 done -
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19:03:05  <Brot6> clientpatches: compile of r23439 still failed (#2964) -
19:05:02  <Brot6> serverpatches: compile of r23439 still failed (#2966) -
19:07:07  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: compile of r23439 still failed (#2446) -
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19:21:07  <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Revision 43:07616f0ebd57: Fix: show correct graphics for second and more conne... (foobar) @
19:21:07  <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Revision 44:e1973735382d: Fix: show correct graphics for second and more conne... (foobar) @
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19:26:33  * andythenorth might switch to git
19:26:35  <andythenorth> comments?
19:38:28  <planetmaker> why? why not?
19:41:13  <andythenorth> why?  we might start using it at work (we use svn)
19:41:20  <andythenorth> why not?  it's another new thing to learn
19:41:26  <andythenorth> ten new ways to break things ;P
19:42:05  <planetmaker> use hg at work :-P
19:43:06  <planetmaker> but in the end: use what you're comfortable with
19:43:12  <Ammler> you could access git repos quite well with hg too
19:43:22  <planetmaker> true
19:43:42  <Ammler> so you do not lose the "better" client
19:43:57  <planetmaker>
19:43:58  <Webster> Title: Hg-Git Mercurial Plugin (at
19:48:13  <Ammler> also using git on devzone shouldn't be a big step anymore
19:48:22  <Ammler> but not by me :-P
19:48:28  <Yexo> planetmaker: nml r1725 broke the regression test
19:49:04  <Yexo> to those new basecosts belong in PR_RUNNING or should that be a new category?
19:49:20  <Yexo> the categories are invented by nml, right?
19:49:33  <Ammler> why did the devzone building not fail?
19:50:23  <Yexo> because nml wasn't build at all yesterday?
19:50:31  <planetmaker> the categories? IIRC not
19:50:33  <Yexo> last nightly is r1722 from 24 november
19:50:34  <planetmaker> they're OpenTTD
19:50:44  <planetmaker> PR_RUNNING and PR_BUILD
19:50:54  <planetmaker> for the cost breakdown for players
19:51:09  <planetmaker> thus there was no freedom to choose
19:51:21  <Yexo> ok
20:00:14  <Ammler> so there is no issue with nml building?
20:00:33  <Yexo> nml was not build yesterday, that is the issue
20:00:40  <Yexo> if it would have been build, it'd have failed
20:01:18  <planetmaker> makes me wonder why it wasn't built
20:01:34  <planetmaker> do you, shall I update regression?
20:01:39  <Yexo> already did
20:01:43  <Yexo> locally, that is
20:01:44  <planetmaker> oh
20:01:46  <planetmaker> ok
20:01:49  <planetmaker> then I'll skip that
20:01:58  <Ammler> well, then we wait for your push
20:02:08  <Yexo> should changelog.txt go under docs/ or under the root directory?
20:02:17  <planetmaker> I thought I did. But I must have tested the one version before that
20:02:30  <planetmaker> I don't mind much
20:02:42  <planetmaker> All newgrfs have it in docs in the repo
20:02:47  <planetmaker> but along the grf in the bundle
20:03:43  <Ammler> Yexo: did you get my report about not installing the manpage?
20:03:56  <Ammler> is that common, do I need to install that manualy?
20:04:00  <Yexo> don't remember that
20:04:11  <Yexo> and I've never tried that, will take a look
20:05:06  <Ammler> it is no big issue to install it with install, just might also be possible to let doing it
20:05:32  <Yexo> setuptools doesn't seem to have a general mechanism for man pages
20:06:22  <Ammler> hmm, also I need to test a tool, which does automatically make rpms from pypi
20:10:10  <Yexo> planetmaker: can you take a look at the changes? Anything wrong or can I release 0.2.1?
20:10:15  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1729:b4678bddc5b0: Fix: include docs/*.txt in the source bundle (yexo) @
20:10:15  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1728:219697600a16: Doc: add gpl header to all files (yexo) @
20:10:15  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1730:d9513a70eca0: Doc: add gpl header to all files (yexo) @
20:10:15  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1727:ae300a87df87: Fix (r1725): update regression test (yexo) @
20:10:18  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1731:6bc6ee5e88e0: Update: readme.txt and changelog.txt (yexo) @
20:10:22  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1732:68b938079ef7: Update: backport changes to readme.txt / chang... (yexo) @
20:12:03  <Brot6> Japanese Trains - Revision 38:98b3b2eb71e1: Split many freight wagons into several different IDs ... (dandan) @
20:15:26  <planetmaker> let's see
20:16:48  <planetmaker> uhm, which of the heads is supposed to be 0.2.1? tip?
20:17:40  <planetmaker> that has not the doc changes (which might make sense to backport, too)
20:17:51  <planetmaker> I mean the license thingy
20:21:47  <planetmaker> Yexo: shouldn't be in the backport?
20:23:31  <Yexo> yes, it should
20:24:11  <planetmaker> uhm, also the regression fix. Unless you skip my commits for the backport. Which would be ok
20:24:23  <planetmaker> I don't quite understand the two heads so far tbh
20:24:26  <Yexo> I've skipped your commits for the backport
20:24:36  <Yexo> use the "branch"-dropdown in the top right
20:25:13  <planetmaker> hg glog is what I used. I just looked wrongly
20:26:44  <Yexo> <- very useful
20:26:57  <planetmaker> and iirc you didn't backport changelog
20:27:10  <planetmaker> ah, indeed
20:27:18  <Yexo> changelog is in 0.2, but not in default branch
20:27:21  <Yexo> forgot to hg add it there
20:28:24  <planetmaker> do you know the transplant extension?
20:28:31  <planetmaker> might be useful :-)
20:28:33  <Yexo> yes
20:28:35  <planetmaker> k
20:28:50  <Yexo> also used it for some of the other commits
20:28:57  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1733:b3d56c1a89e7: Fix (r1732): forgot to hg add changelog.txt (yexo) @
20:29:02  <Ammler> planetmaker: didn't you once get my little slog alias?
20:29:13  <planetmaker> yes
20:29:20  <planetmaker> I still have it
20:29:29  <planetmaker> but I needed more lines
20:29:38  <Ammler> :-=
20:30:08  <planetmaker> but yes, it's more oversight than glog
20:30:29  <planetmaker> Yexo: I think that works for me
20:31:17  <planetmaker> thus go for 0.2.1
20:31:36  <planetmaker> or let first blathijs build it / review it
20:33:33  <Ammler> Yexo: is it seriously that hard to get nml to make v7 newgrfs and v8 only, if needed?
20:33:53  <planetmaker> it's an unneeded complication
20:33:55  <Yexo> Ammler: openttd 0.2 will continue making v7 newgrfs
20:34:00  <Yexo> s/openttd/nml/
20:34:13  <Yexo> nml 0.3+ will make newgrfs that are only compatible with openttd 1.2+
20:34:45  <Yexo> if someone else wants to provide patches for compatibility with earlier openttd versions or with ttdpatch, that's fine. I'm not going to bother
20:34:49  <Ammler> yes, but it means, you need to package 2 nml, one for opengfx, and another one for newgrfs
20:35:15  <planetmaker> you don't. yet
20:35:20  <Yexo> seeing how long 0.2 took, 0.3 is quite some time off
20:35:27  <planetmaker> ^^
20:35:40  <Ammler> Yexo: basically, you just would need a trigger, if nml has a v8 feature, rise the version, else stay on v7
20:35:42  <planetmaker> it's really a thing to worry when 0.3 is about to be served
20:35:46  <Yexo> by that time opengfx might be released for openttd 1.2 and later
20:35:47  <Ammler> is that so hard?
20:35:56  <planetmaker> yes
20:36:04  <planetmaker> it bloats code
20:36:13  <planetmaker> makes it much harder to maintain
20:36:16  <Yexo> Ammler: there are several callbacks that work differently between v7 and v8
20:36:32  <Yexo> some constants will need there value changed from 0x80 to 0x4000 for example
20:36:33  <Ammler> yep, so if you use callback, make v8
20:36:38  <Ammler> else stay on v7
20:36:47  <Yexo> but we don't know exactly which callbacks are used
20:36:50  <Yexo> at least not for sure
20:37:27  <Ammler> you already have a lot more work because you backport
20:37:40  <Ammler> not sure, if such a trigger is really that much more work
20:37:56  <Yexo> why would backporting cause a lot more work?
20:38:00  <planetmaker> Ammler: you're asking for lot of boring and unneeded work only for the possibility that it might, in 6 or 12 month need two NML packages
20:38:03  <Yexo> I don't plan on backporting any major changes
20:38:06  <planetmaker> you really want to do that?
20:38:17  <Ammler> planetmaker: the 2 branches are already here
20:38:35  <planetmaker> and?
20:38:38  <Ammler> or did I missread backport?
20:39:09  <planetmaker> we've nightlies and 0.2.x
20:39:16  <planetmaker> thus stable and development
20:39:23  <planetmaker> that's quite usual. right?
20:39:43  <Rubidium> I think maintaining code that checks whether it needs v8, or can get away with v7 is more of a hassle than a stable release branch
20:40:37  <Rubidium> although the major question is: what values is the user giving? Is that a v8 or v7 value? What to do then? (e.g. snow table)
20:40:51  <Yexo> Ammler: when openttd 1.2 comes out, is there any reason to keep making v7 newgrfs?
20:41:20  <Ammler> Yexo: I think not, ask planetmaker
20:41:44  <Ammler> afaik, they plan to have opengfx v7 longer
20:42:13  <Yexo> since opengfx is so simple (code-wise that is), it can keep using nml 0.2 longer
20:42:24  <planetmaker> Ammler: as said: let's worry about that when we actually *think* of NML 0.3
20:42:48  <Ammler> but then wehy did you branch already?
20:42:53  <Rubidium> IIRC He spoke of "summer" for converting OpenGFX, which isn't that far from spring
20:42:57  <planetmaker> and even then. I see not a big issue in having nml-0.2 and nml-0.3
20:43:12  <planetmaker> as opengfx can then specifically request a certain NML version
20:43:45  <Ammler> planetmaker: which means distros need to provide multiple versions, if possible at all
20:43:50  <Yexo> Ammler: the branch was created because from now on all big changes will be for nml 0.3, not 0.2
20:44:07  <Yexo> bugfixes will get backported, but that's all
20:45:48  <Rubidium> even then, 0.1 was in june, so extrapolating 0.3 might be in june as well... which again is "summer" ;)
20:46:52  <Rubidium> so if you really want to release 0.3, just release OpenGFX just before it, get it built and then release 0.3
20:47:04  <Rubidium> and start happily converting OpenGFX to DOS palette and v8
20:47:23  <Yexo> converting OpenGFX to DOS is trivial
20:47:40  <Yexo> just changing "-p WIN" to "-p DOS" in the Makefile
20:48:03  <Ammler> Yexo: well, that means mainly converting the source to dos
20:48:25  <Ammler> or does nml not care about source, does it detect that?
20:48:35  <Yexo> nml doesn't care, hence it's so easy
20:48:46  <Yexo> that is, nml can convert from win to dos palette, not the other way around
20:49:08  <Rubidium> so no conversion to the dos palette yet :(
20:49:23  <Ammler> Yexo: yes, but can you have different sources?
20:49:28  <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Revision 45:701441ead906: Feature #3282: RET type T metro (graphics by Voyager... (foobar) @
20:49:28  <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Revision 46:8bb011552be2: Feature #3282: RET type M metro (graphics by Voyager... (foobar) @
20:49:28  <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Revision 47:07d9144b2992: Feature #3282: RET type B metro (graphics by Voyager... (foobar) @
20:49:30  <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Revision 48:d2268bf17be6: Feature #3282: RET type R metro (graphics by Voyager... (foobar) @
20:49:45  <Yexo> Ammler: yes, you can mix dos and win palette sources. If you do, the output can only be dos
20:50:21  <Ammler> oh, can we rename those palettes please?
20:50:25  <planetmaker> Rubidium: indeed the image files need not be touched for the upcoming conversion
20:50:43  <planetmaker> but in summer... why not?
20:50:45  <Ammler> maybe aliased
20:51:04  <planetmaker> the plan to release a last 0.7-compatible OpenGFX then might be good and then switch to 1.2-compatible stuff
20:51:10  <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Revision 49:8149c93d78d2: Codechange: actually use 'return' keyword in all pla... (foobar) @
20:51:26  <Ammler> planetmaker: opengfx 1.0 :-)
20:51:37  <planetmaker> Yexo: actually some of my newgrfs use that
20:51:43  <planetmaker> like iirc the landscape newgrf
20:51:55  <planetmaker> it's really great that it silently converts the files
20:52:20  <Rubidium> Ammler: I propose the win and fail palletes ;)
20:52:21  <planetmaker> it makes all issues go :-)
20:52:41  <planetmaker> Ammler: you mean we should call it such?
20:52:47  <planetmaker> Maybe we should indeed
20:53:08  <Ammler> planetmaker: you do not get all ticket gone, ever :-P
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20:53:47  <Ammler> it is quite modern to have big version jumps ;-)
20:53:52  <Rubidium> Ammler: pff... for OpenTTD we did, barring some OSX tickets
20:55:44  <Ammler> Rubidium: shall we create a TTDGFX project for openttd.grf or will you make that on your server?
20:56:03  <Ammler> (removing basesets from openttd source) :-P
20:57:28  <Ammler> would at least be a good thing for openttd 1.2 or do we need to wiat another year?
20:57:56  <Rubidium> that only makes things more complex
20:58:15  <Rubidium> as downloading 'ttdgfx' from bananas would not give you anything useful, i.e. it wouldn't give you a full set
21:02:05  <Ammler> does it now?
21:03:46  <planetmaker> now it's the same difficulty as installing opengfx by hand
21:03:58  <planetmaker> with the added benefit that it never requires updates
21:04:20  <Rubidium> planetmaker: installing opengfx is easier
21:04:25  <Rubidium> just start OpenTTD
21:04:33  <planetmaker> yes. "by hand" :-)
21:05:01  <Rubidium> except OSX as that doesn't have the downloader
21:05:08  <planetmaker> not the nice installer or bootstrap downloads we now have :-)
21:05:20  <planetmaker> yes... I know. I still didn't get beyond the crashes
21:05:47  <Ammler> oh :-o
21:05:55  <Ammler> it does download opengfx on start now?
21:06:02  <planetmaker> if you allow it
21:06:11  <Ammler> how cool is that
21:06:14  <planetmaker> very
21:06:18  <Ammler> :-D
21:06:39  <Ammler> hmm
21:06:47  <Ammler> that means, no need to make opengfx rpms
21:07:06  <Rubidium> and no need to package nml
21:07:07  <planetmaker> well. you still want to install it out-of-box when you install openttd
21:07:08  <Rubidium> win!
21:07:24  <Ammler> Rubidium: well, at least not the special nml fro opengfx thn
21:07:42  <Rubidium> just do it the arch way
21:09:50  <planetmaker> g'night
21:11:06  <Ammler> I need to test that, how does it create the gui for asking you if you want to download opengfx?
21:11:46  <Ammler> wasn't that the issue yet and why foobar once tried to make mingfx?
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