Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 5th May 2013:
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09:16:55  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - rivers_better.png XandythenorthX @
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09:32:57  <Brot6> Finnish Trainset - Bug #5579 (Closed): Dv12 three series doesn&#x27;t refit Xjuzza1X @
09:34:00  <Alberth> No ' allowed?
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10:26:40  <Brot6> Finnish Trainset - Revision 95:796f66e3f6c4: Feature: Edm greenified Xjuzza1X @
11:16:05  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - meander.png XandythenorthX @
11:16:59  <Brot6> Industrial Stations Renewal - Revision 143:4c038e4c4cb1: Feature: Add high and low level forklift pl... Xmart3pX @
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11:50:05  <Brot6> Finnish Trainset - Feature #5585 (New): Other wagons and coaches coded by using green templates from... Xkyosuke1989X @
11:54:28  <Brot6> Finnish Trainset - Feature #4523: "Greenization" and other livery changes Xkyosuke1989X @
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12:16:10  <Brot6> Finnish Trainset - Bug #5588 (New): Fix tender weights Xjuzza1X @
14:07:11  <Brot6> Finnish Trainset - Revision 96:709d41777f07: Feature: Preliminary code for the rest of the vehicles ... Xjuzza1X @
14:08:22  <Brot6> Finnish Trainset - Revision 97:b768919a7840: Fix: Updated template Xjuzza1X @
14:08:23  <Brot6> Finnish Trainset - Revision 98:3d76e3a1ff43: Fix: Visual effect is now correctly STEAM instead of DI... Xjuzza1X @
14:08:23  <Brot6> Finnish Trainset - Revision 99:ddf680774350: Fix: Cost factors adjusted Xjuzza1X @
15:25:08  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - spring.png XandythenorthX @
15:36:24  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - spring_fix.png XandythenorthX @
15:48:31  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - better_spring_or_is_it.png XandythenorthX @
16:08:43  <Brot6> Neighbours are important - Revision 11:79f511251d72: -Change: Convert all files to unix style line e... XZuuX @
17:19:33  <Brot6> xussrset: update from r882 to r885 done (2 warnings) -
17:20:17  <Brot6> finnishtrainset: update from r92 to r99 done -
17:21:20  <Brot6> isr: update from r142 to r143 done -
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18:46:47  <Brot6> Finnish Trainset - Feature #5585: Other wagons and coaches coded by using green templates from CETS Xjuzza1X @
18:50:02  <Brot6> Finnish Trainset - Feature #5567 (Closed): G covered van sprites to be templated and coded Xkyosuke1989X @
19:07:20  <andythenorth> planetmaker: got any interest in how rivers are drawn by ottd?  Would help with my project... :)
19:08:19  <planetmaker> how can I help you?
19:10:21  <andythenorth> read DrawWaterEdges and see if you understand it?
19:10:30  <andythenorth> then maybe we hack it to make changes
19:11:07  <planetmaker> which file?
19:11:20  <Brot6> Finnish Trainset - Bug #5582: DmG7 speed Xkyosuke1989X @
19:11:30  <planetmaker> or... what do we try to fix / improve?
19:12:47  <Alberth> water_cmd.cpp, line 635
19:13:37  <Alberth>  <-- an old one
19:13:58  <Alberth> ie river edges :)
19:16:58  <planetmaker> that needs no code change afaik
19:17:36  <planetmaker> though I don't see what changed on the left place pointed out
19:17:50  <andythenorth> the issue is springs (river source)
19:18:09  <planetmaker> what's the issue there?
19:18:30  <andythenorth> hang on, making screenie :)
19:19:11  <planetmaker> I do recall that I spent quite some time on OpenGFX rivers to make them look good while doing the same for corners
19:19:17  <planetmaker> But... feasible
19:19:43  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - springs_issue.png XandythenorthX @
19:19:47  <andythenorth>
19:20:00  <andythenorth> the spring is made by overlapping the two corners
19:20:15  <planetmaker> yes. Exactly. You need to draw 1/4 tile corners at max
19:20:20  <andythenorth> I can kind of understand the code in DrawWaterEdges that does that (neighbouring tile check)
19:20:40  <planetmaker> andythenorth, did you look at springs in OpenGFX?
19:20:44  <planetmaker> And the corners?
19:20:46  <andythenorth> in principle, if it checks more neighbouring tiles, an additional sprite could be drawn on top
19:20:50  <planetmaker> It's imho only a drawing issue
19:20:58  <planetmaker> of the sprites
19:21:31  <planetmaker> alternatively, I do suggest to go for a completely alternative river sprite approach:
19:21:37  <planetmaker> one sprite per possible river tile
19:21:42  <planetmaker> no combinations of shores
19:21:49  <planetmaker> but one sprite which shows all shores on a single tile
19:22:02  <planetmaker> *that's* actually what I personally would prefer
19:22:16  <planetmaker> no hacking on top with more tile pieces
19:23:04  <planetmaker> additionally it would allow more variety on the rivers
19:23:31  <andythenorth> I could be +1 to that
19:23:42  <andythenorth> currently the corners are very compromised imho
19:24:09  <andythenorth> I would say (inverting what you said) that the poor appearance of corners is due to need to accomodate springs :)
19:24:23  <planetmaker> well...
19:24:38  <planetmaker>
19:25:01  <andythenorth> what changed? :)
19:25:15  <planetmaker> update
19:25:18  <planetmaker> nothing changed there
19:25:27  <planetmaker> but ... do you think the corners look ugly?
19:26:54  <andythenorth> compare to this
19:27:00  <andythenorth> I know it's not ogfx ;)
19:27:40  <andythenorth> or see the LH bank (current openttd.grf) and RH bank (new)
19:28:09  <planetmaker> andythenorth, honestly, that looks - in my eyes - worse than current one. Meandering rivers have different shape
19:28:45  <andythenorth> hmm
19:28:50  <andythenorth> I seem to be out on a limb with this one
19:28:54  <planetmaker> Sorry, if this sounds harsh. I did have with my sprite attempts before the current form a river which looked nearly identical
19:28:57  <andythenorth> other people hate it too
19:29:05  <planetmaker> I also made smoother curves outside
19:29:23  <planetmaker> it fails on the inner curves. Which can't be shortened. And that IMHO makes it look very awkward
19:29:34  <andythenorth> ah fuck it I'll just rm these
19:29:41  <Supercheese> no, make them newobjects
19:29:51  <Supercheese> then you can make custom rivers
19:29:59  <Supercheese> or hell, send me the sprites
19:30:01  <Supercheese> I'll code them
19:30:07  <andythenorth> I'm going to delete them
19:30:38  <andythenorth> gone
19:30:42  <Supercheese> poof
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19:30:50  <juzza1> ...and it's gone
19:30:50  <planetmaker> It would nevertheless for rivers make sense to take into account the adjacent tiles
19:31:00  <planetmaker> that would allow - also - more variety
19:31:13  <planetmaker> and better or - behold - realistic looking rivers
19:31:18  <planetmaker> which meander better
19:31:55  <Supercheese> eh I can always rip the sprites from all those screens he posted :P
19:32:06  <Brot6> ogfx-landscape: update from r123 to r127 done -
19:32:16  <Supercheese> 123 to 127?
19:32:19  <planetmaker> difficult, Supercheese. Rivers are composed of a lot of ones
19:32:32  <Supercheese> Newobjects can be composed of one
19:32:37  <Supercheese> which is what I was thinking
19:32:45  <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: manindu (Diffsize: 10), ogfx-industries, dutchtrains, progressivetrains (25 warnings), canrail, ogfx-trains (4 warnings), bandit (1 warnings) (Diffsize: 8216), metrotrackset (Diffsize: 5284), nutracks (2 warnings), swedishrails (Diffsize: 1452), zbuild, debugveh (Diffsize: 1000), uselesstracks (Diffsize: 760), german-townnames (Diffsize: 49),
19:32:45  <Brot6> spanishtowns (Diffsize: 18), firs (30 warnings) (Diffsize: 42), make-nml, opengfx, britrains (10 warnings) (Diffsize: 133546), dutchtracks (Diffsize: 327), belarusiantowns (Diffsize: 72), dutchroadfurniture (Diffsize: 44228), frenchtowns, airportsplus, fish (7 warnings), swisstowns (Diffsize: 51), ogfx-rv, newgrf_makefile (Diffsize: 21), friss (Diffsize: 4685), indonesiantowns (1 warnings) (Diffsize: 19)
19:32:52  <Supercheese> yikes O_o
19:34:03  <planetmaker> sometimes andy is hard to discuss with...
19:34:38  <Alberth> this weekend in particular, it seems
19:35:38  <planetmaker> I haven't read any backlog really. Should I?
19:35:38  <Alberth> how does a single sprite enhance meandering?
19:35:52  <Alberth> not needed I think
19:35:53  <Supercheese> "realism"?
19:35:58  * Supercheese shrugs
19:36:20  <Alberth> ie all ships are still at the same place
19:36:31  <planetmaker> Alberth, I can draw the 90° curves for each direction differently. I'm not limited to the 1/2 tile border for it
19:36:32  <Alberth> unless you add multi-tile corners :p
19:36:54  <Brot6> FISH - Bug #2589 (Rejected): Lighting wrong on larger Ferries XandythenorthX @
19:36:55  <Brot6> FISH - Bug #5270 (Rejected): changelog not tracked by hg XandythenorthX @
19:36:55  <Brot6> FISH - Feature #5003 (Rejected): Sounds XandythenorthX @
19:36:55  <Brot6> FISH - Feature #5324 (Rejected): Check auto-refit is being handled correctly XandythenorthX @
19:36:56  <Brot6> FISH - Feature #5252 (Rejected): All ships need purchase costs set XandythenorthX @
19:36:59  <Brot6> FISH - Bug #5267 (Rejected): readme.txt is thoroughly incorrect XandythenorthX @
19:37:02  <Brot6> FISH - Feature #4700 (Rejected): Load states and holds needed for Taurus & Colorado Freighters XandythenorthX @
19:37:07  <Brot6> FISH - Feature #4143 (Rejected): Pixel comments from v453000 XandythenorthX @
19:37:14  <planetmaker> And yes, I do have a separate sprite then for springs (3-tile land border)
19:37:22  <planetmaker> which also would solve the spring tile issue
19:37:28  <Alberth> andy is angry :(
19:37:49  <planetmaker> o_O
19:38:07  <Brot6> feed NewGRFs had 15 updates, showing the latest 10
19:38:07  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Bug #2020 (Rejected): Offset errors with 'standard' trailers for bulldo... XandythenorthX @
19:38:07  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Feature #1945 (Rejected): Trailer wagons for hi-rail vehicles XandythenorthX @
19:38:07  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Feature #3482 (Rejected): Trams should change weight according to cargo... XandythenorthX @
19:38:10  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Bug #3342 (Rejected): Must not allow auto-refit to different vehicle le... XandythenorthX @
19:38:14  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Bug #3293 (Rejected): Fix lighting where it's easy / noticeably wrong XandythenorthX @
19:38:16  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Feature #3668 (Rejected): Mid-sized tram needed in 1930s / 1940s XandythenorthX @
19:38:21  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Feature #3723 (Rejected): Can fix vehicle info window length issues wit... XandythenorthX @
19:38:25  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Feature #1068 (Rejected): Extend FIRS cargo support XandythenorthX @
19:38:28  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Feature #1069 (Rejected): Make it possible for players to choose number... XandythenorthX @
19:38:32  <Alberth> yeah, springs would be much better
19:38:33  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Feature #1111 (Rejected): Redraw tractors XandythenorthX @
19:38:46  <Alberth> and corners of different sprites too
19:39:14  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1815 (Rejected): Clay Pit animation XandythenorthX @
19:39:15  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2993 (Rejected): Water mill graphics for grain mill XandythenorthX @
19:39:15  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2520 (Rejected): Slope aware graphics for farms XandythenorthX @
19:39:15  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1826 (Rejected): Sand Quarry animation XandythenorthX @
19:39:16  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #5240 (Rejected): If adding more types of port, need to remo... XandythenorthX @
19:39:22  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #4694 (Rejected): More date sensitive graphics XandythenorthX @
19:39:26  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #4724 (Rejected): mention cargo in strings XandythenorthX @
19:39:43  <planetmaker> The new approach then also could use some random or pseudo-random bits in the tile. And draw different sprites for normal rivers
19:39:48  <Supercheese> Yikes again O_o
19:40:16  <juzza1> witnessing something uncool here
19:40:22  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #4505 (Rejected): Greeble for empty tiles on Iron Works XandythenorthX @
19:40:22  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #4757 (Rejected): Template [some] tile props XandythenorthX @
19:40:26  <planetmaker> possibly
19:43:20  <planetmaker> Alberth, also, separate sprites, if adjacent borders of a tile are the river exits of it: then it's easier to draw it meandering
19:43:44  <planetmaker> additionally you then can vary the river width within the tile easier
19:44:03  <Alberth> it sounds useful
19:44:39  <planetmaker> though width variation... that might turn out ugly with ships
19:44:54  <Alberth> let me guess, someone from TTDP spec-ed the mininal number of sprites to make rivers?
19:44:55  <planetmaker> needs careful examination
19:45:13  <planetmaker> it's old. very old. So the answer very likely is 'yes'
19:45:23  <planetmaker> as mb's rivers grf is an ancient newgrf
19:45:57  <planetmaker> setting up this alternative spec is easy
19:46:16  <planetmaker> making it work along the existing one. That's what I consider rather difficult
19:46:30  <frosch123> canals are older than rivers
19:46:44  <frosch123> though i am not aware anyone used the canal thingie before the river thingie :p
19:46:52  <frosch123> maybe ttdpatch.grf
19:47:42  <frosch123> anyway, rivers are just the same as canals
19:47:46  <planetmaker> what would be your view on a re-spec of rivers towards one sprite per tile, frosch123 ?
19:48:19  <frosch123> just add another variable which represents the water connection status
19:48:22  <frosch123> no need to change anything else
19:48:32  <frosch123> is there?
19:48:48  <frosch123> the grf can just leave the sprites empty it does not need
19:48:50  <planetmaker> uh... currently water borders are puzzled by a lot of sprites
19:49:05  <frosch123> but it can still draw inner side and outer side of a corner independently
19:49:41  <frosch123> well, puzzlng is not that bad :)
19:49:44  <frosch123> it gives more control to ottd
19:50:09  <planetmaker> yes and no... but maybe a continuation variable indeed is the solution
19:50:20  <Alberth> good night
19:50:29  <Supercheese> 'night
19:50:31  <planetmaker> good night, Alberth
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19:53:17  <planetmaker> frosch123, probably it would suffice to get the connectivity status of the tile itself in the first place
19:53:34  <planetmaker> hm... <3
19:53:36  <frosch123> well, basically which edges ottd intends to draw
19:53:55  <frosch123> the funny thing is, there is a "internal variable" in the specs
19:54:00  <frosch123> which is named "dikes map" :p
19:54:09  <planetmaker> uh
19:54:10  <frosch123> it might be just that, somone should check :p
19:54:18  <frosch123> not implemented in ottd
19:54:46  <frosch123> anyway, we should check that var before adding a new one
19:55:44  * planetmaker looks
19:56:29  <planetmaker> oh... not in the specs at all. Hm
19:56:40  <frosch123> you have to look in ttdp source :)
19:57:29  * planetmaker doubts that it'll be fun :S
20:00:23  <frosch123> it's in FillCanalAction2FeatureArray
20:00:26  <planetmaker> right... first time I checkout ttdpatch svn
20:01:06  <michi_cc> I think I looked at that one when doing the sprite offset callback. IIRC it's not a direct edge bitmask but something more complicated.
20:01:11  <frosch123> it's even documented
20:01:26  <frosch123> water.asm:887
20:02:06  <frosch123> though it looks fishy... who counts bits starting at 1 :s
20:02:54  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature #3582 (Rejected): Write instructions for installing on OS X XandythenorthX @
20:03:24  <planetmaker> uh....
20:03:36  <frosch123> preprocessor magic :p
20:04:05  <frosch123> it's worse than nfo :p
20:04:43  <Supercheese> worse?!
20:05:02  <frosch123> yeah, worse than nfo is only preprocessor stuff
20:05:14  <planetmaker> bah...
20:05:58  <Supercheese> oh macro defines and stuff?
20:06:11  <planetmaker> honestly, frosch123 ... I'm 99.95% sure that no water newgrf uses any of that.
20:06:40  <planetmaker> And we might want to make sane variables. Than introducing ancient cruft which is not used and which is worse than something tailored for our use
20:06:42  <frosch123> anyway, i think bits 0 to 7 of that var say just exactly what sprites to draw. with this order:
20:07:06  <frosch123> planetmaker: well, what var do you want to add instead?
20:09:11  <planetmaker> how do the bits say which sprites to draw? it may want to draw most of them at once...
20:10:25  <frosch123> huh?
20:10:39  <frosch123> there is only one a123 chain to get all of them
20:11:18  <planetmaker> oh :-)
20:11:24  <frosch123> oh wait, there are 12 sprites, not 8
20:11:49  <frosch123> well, whatever, there are 8 neighbour tiles
20:11:55  <planetmaker> yes
20:12:06  <frosch123> the bits say which neighbour tiles are land
20:13:18  <planetmaker> hm... of the 8 neighboring tiles?
20:14:49  <planetmaker> but that's basically what we need...
20:17:40  <frosch123> ok, order is: NE, SE, SW, NW, E, S, W, N
20:18:49  <frosch123> planetmaker: anyway, i would like to add a variable which can more or less directly be used
20:19:00  <frosch123> i do not want something like get-nearby-tile-info
20:19:07  <planetmaker> this can be used, no?
20:19:18  <frosch123> that results in endless va123 chains, which will slow everything down
20:19:46  <frosch123> yeah, i think var 82 is just enough
20:22:56  <frosch123> if we would add a var60 for nearby tile info, someone would do the same for railtypes, and then we are screwed :p
20:23:42  <frosch123> someone just needs to zoom out and we have a thousand a123 chains with complicated computations :)
20:23:56  <planetmaker> :-)
20:24:44  <Brot6> roadtypes - Feature #2144 (Rejected): Test rework of drawing code for road tiles XandythenorthX @
20:24:44  <Brot6> roadtypes - Feature #2159 (Rejected): Make move of roadworks bits savegame safe XandythenorthX @
20:24:58  <planetmaker> more raging... ^
20:26:25  <Supercheese> oy gevalt...
20:27:04  <frosch123> he should watch trash movies instead
20:27:31  <planetmaker> or crumble paper and throw it at the wall. Or play an ego shooter
20:29:01  <frosch123> i am just watching a bearded astronaut chasing a pumpkin-shaped alien with a broom though a spaceship
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20:40:23  <Brot6> Finnish Trainset - Bug #5582: DmG7 speed XallukeX @
20:41:52  <planetmaker> we certainly have a function which adds a dir to a tile in order to obtain the tile...
20:42:37  <frosch123> can you reuse the existing canal drawing stuff?
20:42:53  <frosch123> other than that, i think the function you look for is in tilemap.h
20:42:57  <frosch123> or tile_map.h ?
20:43:13  <planetmaker> I'm just trying to implement that var 82. So, yes... it might not need more than that var
20:43:27  <frosch123> be careful about mapborders though
20:43:37  <planetmaker> and a proper frunction probably from tile_map.h. But I only found a function wich adds a diag dir to a tile
20:44:18  <planetmaker> hm, yes. That might need special treatment
20:44:29  <frosch123> i believe there is also a similar rail continuation variable in newgrf_station.cpp
20:44:54  <planetmaker> AddTileIndexDiffCWrap maybe...
20:46:06  <frosch123> DrawWaterEdges uses TILE_ADDXY
20:46:21  <planetmaker> I need the tiletype though. Thus that one seems nice.
20:46:30  <planetmaker> as it returns INVALID_TILE for outside map
20:46:59  <frosch123> wa += IsWateredTile(TILE_ADDXY(tile,  0,  1), DIR_NW) << 1; <- well, those should do the right thing
20:47:04  <frosch123> else it is wrong anyway :p
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