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00:05:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> AAHH... elrails bug... 00:05:20 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: que? 00:05:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> when a station platform is part electrified, and part not 00:05:25 *** CobraA3 [n=Jeremiah@cpe-024-088-000-194.sc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 00:05:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> and a train comes from the non-electrical part 00:05:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> it does not go to the end of the platform 00:05:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> but it stops at the end of the non-electrified part 00:07:28 *** CobraA3 [n=Jeremiah@cpe-024-088-000-194.sc.res.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 00:07:50 <Sacro> hmm, sounds like a bug 00:08:08 <RichK> what sort of train? electric or diesel? 00:08:48 <glx> non electric I guess 00:10:10 <Sacro> i just got a newgrf (ukrs) glitch 00:10:39 <RichK> new airport suggestions.... http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=423077#423077 00:12:41 * glx likes them 00:12:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> well... if it's going on non-electric lines, it is obviously a non-electric train 00:12:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> (steam in this case) 00:13:22 <glx> it looks like a wrong end-of-line detection 00:16:00 <glx> hmm doesn't happen for me 00:17:24 <Born_Acorn> RichK! Realistic! Long n thin, with paralel taxiways! 00:17:30 <Born_Acorn> :p 00:17:49 <RichK> im thinking of a better 3rd design... hold on 00:18:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> glx: that was originally an elrails platform, that i partially downgraded to normal rails 00:18:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> 2 tiles long 00:21:03 <glx> still not happen (I've build a 2 tiles long elrail station, then build a 1 tile normal station over it) 00:22:16 <Sacro> hmm, my trains arent unloading fully 00:22:28 *** BJH_ [n=chatzill@e176106191.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.12/20050915]"] 00:22:29 <Sacro> does unload actually pay me? or will it drop the stuff at the station? 00:26:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> strange... it does not let me build stations over stations... 00:27:45 <Sacro> ive got trains unwilling to unload :( 00:28:43 *** RichK_ [n=RichK@194.164.100.143] has joined #openttd 00:29:39 *** RichK_ [n=RichK@194.164.100.143] has quit [Client Quit] 00:30:01 *** RichK__ [n=RichK@194.164.100.143] has joined #openttd 00:30:44 <RichK__> bleh... lost my link there 00:30:50 <RichK__> nick RichK 00:31:09 <Sacro> you need / :) 00:31:25 <RichK__> i did... 2nd time 00:31:37 <RichK__> didnt work, cos my crash has left RichK in existence 00:31:50 <glx> msg nickserv recover nick pass 00:32:07 <RichK__> i dont think ive registered 00:32:35 <RichK__> anyway... i have posted a revised type 3 airport 00:32:42 <glx> so wait until it disappear 00:32:53 <RichK__> same link http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=423077#423077 00:35:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> RichK: the runways look short, are they for small airport things only? 00:36:33 <RichK__> nope, but 5 is only 1 short of 6 for a city airport 00:37:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> small is 4? 00:39:01 *** KritiK [i=Maxim@ppp83-237-234-57.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit ["Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org"] 00:43:03 *** RichK____ [n=RichK@194.164.100.143] has joined #openttd 00:43:47 *** RichK [n=RichK@194.164.100.143] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:43:57 *** RichK____ is now known as RichK 00:44:45 *** Sacro2 [i=Ben@213.249.248.201] has joined #openttd 00:44:46 <Sacro2> whoops 00:45:08 *** RichK is now known as RichK67 00:46:13 <CIA-5> belugas * r4162 /branch/32bpp/ (openttd.dsp openttd.vcproj): [32bpp]-CodeChange : Add missing files to MS Project and Workspace files 00:47:20 <Sacro2> he's up late 00:48:48 <CIA-5> belugas * r4163 /trunk/ (openttd.dsp openttd.vcproj): CodeChange : Add missing file to MS Project and Workspace files 00:49:09 *** Born_Acorn [n=bornacor@ACD6E755.ipt.aol.com] has quit [] 00:55:48 <RichK67> hi guys - type 3 airport now has extended 6 length runways 00:55:59 <Sacro2> night all 00:56:00 *** Sacro2 [i=Ben@213.249.248.201] has quit ["Sacro2 has no reason"] 00:56:04 <RichK67> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=423077#423077 00:57:42 *** RichK__ [n=RichK@194.164.100.143] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:59:55 *** Sacro [i=Ben@adsl-213-249-186-126.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:02:52 *** Andrew67 [n=andrew67@206.248.80.224] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:11:55 *** CobraA1 [n=Jeremiah@cpe-024-088-000-194.sc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 01:12:07 *** RichK67 [n=RichK@194.164.100.143] has quit [] 01:12:58 *** CobraA1 [n=Jeremiah@cpe-024-088-000-194.sc.res.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 01:55:05 *** dp-- [n=dp@p54B2D7C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:57:49 *** Eddi|zuHause [i=johekr@p54B767B3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:57:56 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [i=johekr@p54B767B3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:15:24 *** bp0 [i=pburt0@watertownDHCP-2.216-254-231.iw.net] has left #openttd [] 03:01:17 *** Belugas_Gone [n=Jfranc@216.191.111.226] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:24:48 *** Sionide [n=sphinx@collaredlory2.hornet.uea.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:25:52 *** Sionide [n=sphinx@collaredlory2.hornet.uea.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 03:42:48 *** glx [n=glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Bye!"] 03:44:53 *** Mucht|zZz_ [n=Mucht@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:45:03 *** Mucht|zZz_ [n=Mucht@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd 03:52:13 *** dp_ [n=dp@p54B2F931.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 03:52:23 *** dp_ is now known as dp-- 03:55:13 *** Sionide [n=sphinx@collaredlory2.hornet.uea.ac.uk] has quit ["/quit"] 03:59:02 *** ThePizzaKing [n=thepizza@c211-28-155-206.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 04:16:53 *** Sionide [n=sphinx@collaredlory2.hornet.uea.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 04:37:08 *** stavrosg [n=stavrosg@athedsl-16067.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:47:31 *** Osai^2 [n=Osai@p54B34C78.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 04:48:37 *** Tron_ [n=tron@p54A3F4C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:56:21 *** Tron [n=tron@p54A3FCE8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 04:56:23 *** Tron_ is now known as Tron 05:32:05 *** Xeryus|bed is now known as XeryusTC 05:50:54 *** Scia [n=scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:08:51 *** RoySmeding [n=Roy@c514451cb.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 06:09:36 *** Scia [n=scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:13:02 <peter1138> hmmm 06:13:05 <peter1138> ... 06:18:08 *** Jenkz [n=nobody@80-192-44-21.stb.ubr05.dund.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 06:25:01 *** RoySmeding [n=Roy@c514451cb.cable.wanadoo.nl] has quit ["kthxbye"] 06:26:11 *** Scia [n=scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:30:55 *** shintah [i=bebble@bebble.olf.sgsnet.se] has joined #openttd 06:50:54 <MiHaMiX> morning 06:50:57 <MiHaMiX> hi peter1138 :) 06:53:20 <peter1138> hi 06:59:12 *** KUDr_wrk [n=KUDr@pcsousek.fit.vutbr.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:15:49 <Celestar> morning 07:16:02 <peter1138> 'lo 07:16:10 <Celestar> whtas new? 07:16:46 *** Scia [n=scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:23:30 <Celestar> I need opinions on the multistop stuff 07:24:50 <Celestar> orudge: !!! I can't log in using konqueror :( 07:34:42 <MiHaMiX> Celestar: use firefox in this case :) 07:35:31 <Celestar> well. 07:35:40 <Celestar> that's a workaround no solution. 07:36:57 <MiHaMiX> :) 07:38:05 <Celestar> hmm. 07:38:15 <Celestar> Opteron's new socket F will have 1207 pins. 07:38:33 <Celestar> The first Microprocessor I owned had 40 pins. 07:40:35 <MiHaMiX> :DDDD 07:41:41 <Celestar> I mean this is nuts :P 07:41:57 <Celestar> prolly 50% of these pins are power supply 07:43:04 *** jax [n=zen@mindware.ee] has joined #openttd 07:43:32 <jax> hey 07:43:47 <jax> any ai devs here? 07:44:07 <Celestar> you mean ottd AI? 07:44:50 <Celestar> TL|Away and igor. but they're both not here atm 07:45:21 <jax> what about multiplayer AI 07:45:30 <jax> i am thinking of one:p 07:46:05 <Celestar> what do you mean? 07:46:18 <jax> a computer connecting to multiplayer games 07:46:25 <jax> and building a company 07:46:28 <jax> such 07:46:50 <jax> so it would introduce another level into the game 07:46:57 <jax> a busnes management level 07:47:07 <jax> bsiness 07:47:08 <jax> like 07:47:14 <jax> you would hire agents 07:47:23 <jax> and get them budget and deadlines 07:47:26 <jax> etc 07:47:49 <Celestar> there are such efforts. as I said, ask TL|Away when he's back 07:48:00 <jax> okay 07:48:01 <jax> :) 07:49:04 <Celestar> good :) 07:51:17 <jax> so what else is up 07:52:45 <Celestar> not much. 07:52:52 <Celestar> merged elrails yesterday evening 07:54:08 <jax> why is the 4.7 doing so much desync? 07:56:21 <Celestar> it IS? 07:56:35 <jax> wel, for me atleas 07:56:36 <jax> t 07:56:45 <Celestar> any special circumstances? 07:56:58 <jax> it seemst that if multiple players try to join a multiplayer game i get dropped via desync 07:57:11 <jax> if i rejoin it says 3 clients ahead 07:57:42 <Celestar> more desyncs than in 0.4.6 ? 08:02:17 <Celestar> is this a yes or a no? 08:02:47 *** WolfLaptop [n=wolf@213.196.14.254] has joined #openttd 08:05:12 <jax> yes 08:05:18 <jax> didnt get any desync back in 4.5 08:05:39 <jax> it would be nice to see what caused the desync 08:05:44 <Tobin> Celestar: "merged elrails yesterday evening: <--- Hooray! 08:06:08 <Celestar> jax: well you CAN. 08:06:16 <Celestar> jax: but the problem is to interpret the data. 08:06:49 <Celestar> jax: do you have an example savegame? 08:07:09 <Celestar> it's a hell of a job to find desyncs with example savegames 08:07:52 <jax> no 08:08:14 <jax> well 08:08:26 <jax> maybe a cuick rejoin button would be great workaround 08:08:33 <jax> or automatic rejoin 08:08:38 <jax> what ja think? 08:08:48 <Celestar> that's not the deal. 08:08:55 <jax> hwy 08:08:56 <jax> why 08:08:57 <Celestar> the deal is to elimate desync.s 08:09:08 <Celestar> desyncs are not (usually) a slow connection 08:09:29 <Kjetil> hm... 08:09:39 <Celestar> jax http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=24264 <= read my post here 08:10:19 <Celestar> if you wanna help, uncomment functions.h line 84 and tell me where server and clients run out of sync :) 08:10:20 <jax> thats the same server:) 08:11:06 <peter1138> moo 08:11:54 <jax> you refer to //#define RANDOM_DEBUG ? 08:12:30 <Celestar> jax: yes. 08:12:33 <jax> so desync is basically a random issue? 08:12:37 <Celestar> jax: yes. 08:12:41 <jax> oh:) 08:12:49 <Celestar> desync is usually a random number desync 08:13:13 <jax> each client should have same random number que? 08:13:33 <Celestar> exactly 08:14:00 <Celestar> peter1138: what was the reason why we had InteractiveRandom? 08:14:36 <jax> how does the game detect desync? 08:16:10 <Celestar> simple. we check the random seeds from time to time. 08:16:32 <jax> :) 08:16:47 <Celestar> they must be identical. 08:16:52 <jax> what was the last solved desync problem 08:16:59 <Celestar> not sure 08:17:22 <jax> what fixes have fixing the desync included earlier 08:17:54 <Celestar> r3565, r3352 ... 08:18:02 <jax> cant the random be generatoed out of time hashes? 08:18:06 <Celestar> we have very few desyncs in 0.4.5 (close to none) 08:18:20 <Celestar> jax: not unless you sync all system clocks to GPS or UTC. 08:18:26 <jax> i mean 08:18:29 <jax> game time:) 08:18:40 <Celestar> .. 08:18:44 <jax> the same? 08:18:45 <Celestar> there was some reason why we didn't do that. 08:18:51 <Celestar> I just can'T remember. 08:18:54 <jax> lag? 08:19:15 <Celestar> do you have ANY multiplayer savegame that did desync later? 08:19:35 <jax> i have only autosave.. and i cannot remmeber which desynced so no 08:19:53 <Celestar> then just gimme the latest autosave. 08:19:59 <Celestar> just something with plenty of vehicles on it 08:20:02 <jax> the latest didnt desync:) 08:20:12 <Celestar> :P 08:20:13 <jax> i will save the next time 08:20:16 <jax> :) 08:20:29 <jax> what could theoretically go wrong? 08:21:02 <Celestar> good question :) 08:21:11 <Celestar> if I knew, I wouldn't need your savegame :P 08:22:01 <jax> :D 08:22:07 <jax> btw 08:22:09 <Celestar> there is one desync issue with Toyland but I assume you are not using it :) 08:22:15 <jax> no 08:22:19 <jax> only temprate 08:22:27 <jax> i dont like other gfx 08:22:34 <jax> the classic is the best 08:23:08 <Celestar> do you have any newgrfs loaded? 08:23:28 <jax> you mean? 08:24:00 <Celestar> newgrfs .. other vehicle sets and stuff 08:24:05 <jax> no 08:24:14 <jax> standard i guess 08:26:44 <Celestar> weird 08:27:49 <jax> why weird 08:32:25 <peter1138> resyncing the random seed won't really help 08:32:48 <peter1138> it will still have done something wrong 08:33:02 <peter1138> you'll just end up not knowing that something is wrong 08:33:24 <peter1138> speaking of something wrong... 08:33:29 * peter1138 ponders a mcdonalds breakfast 08:35:29 * peter1138 mutters at other people's C code 08:35:43 <peter1138> (not in ottd, heh) 08:35:59 *** ThePizzaKing [n=thepizza@c211-28-155-206.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:36:08 *** Zr40 [n=Zirconiu@cl-1124.ams-04.nl.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:39:43 *** Cheery [i=Henri@a81-197-45-47.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 08:42:37 *** DarkSSH [n=plop@5354EC24.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 08:42:38 *** mode/#openttd [+o DarkSSH] by ChanServ 08:42:43 *** DarkSSH is now known as Darkvater 08:42:55 *** mode/#openttd [-o Darkvater] by Darkvater 08:42:59 <jax> hm 08:43:03 <jax> anu forum admins here? 08:43:50 <orudge> Hello 08:43:50 <orudge> Yes 08:44:00 <jax> well 08:44:11 <jax> can you resend activation to zen/zproxy.hot.ee 08:44:16 *** mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ 08:44:23 <orudge> Is zen your username? 08:44:25 <orudge> Or what's your username? 08:44:26 <jax> jub 08:44:28 <orudge> OK 08:45:43 *** ThePizzaKing [n=thepizza@c211-28-155-206.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 08:46:16 <orudge> Ehm, jax, the "jub" username is already active 08:46:22 <orudge> I notice there's a "zen" username too, though 08:46:43 <orudge> I can enable "zen" if you want 08:47:04 <jax> :D 08:47:06 <jax> jes 08:47:10 <jax> zen is the username 08:47:19 <jax> jub was ment to be a yes to your question 08:47:20 <jax> :) 08:47:29 <jax> sorry for that 08:47:49 *** jax is now known as zen 08:47:58 *** zen is now known as zproxy 08:48:03 <zproxy> :) 08:48:29 <orudge> OK, I've activated zen 08:48:51 <zproxy> great:) 08:49:00 <orudge> Oh, by the way 08:49:05 <orudge> Your e-mail was over quota 08:49:10 <orudge> host 10.3.0.123" target="_blank">10.3.0.123[10.3.0.123" target="_blank">10.3.0.123] said: 552 5.2.2 Over 08:49:10 <orudge> quota (in reply to RCPT TO command) 08:49:32 <zproxy> even still? 08:49:41 <orudge> Don't know now 08:49:46 <orudge> but when it tried to send out the e-mail 08:49:48 <orudge> anyway, brb for now 08:49:55 <zproxy> some fool sent 9 mb in school 08:50:00 <zproxy> i dint even noticed until now 08:50:09 <zproxy> so my mailbox was full for a week 08:51:29 *** Zr40 [n=Zirconiu@cl-1124.ams-04.nl.sixxs.net] has joined #openttd 08:54:38 *** zproxy is now known as zen-- 08:54:43 *** MagicJohn [n=magical@unaffiliated/magicjohn] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:57:56 <Darkvater> morning@all 08:58:07 <Darkvater> orudge: does rdtsc work for you on OS/2? 09:00:22 <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: hi 09:02:27 *** Tron [n=tron@p54A3F4C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 09:02:38 *** Tron_ [n=tron@p54A3F4C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:03:11 <Darkvater> hi 09:06:11 <zen--> hello 09:08:46 <CIA-5> tron * r4164 /trunk/ (elrail.c openttd.c road_cmd.c tunnelbridge_cmd.c): Use acessor functions 09:09:12 *** Born_Acorn [n=bornacor@ACD6E755.ipt.aol.com] has joined #openttd 09:12:36 <Celestar> back 09:12:58 * peter1138 sighs 09:13:11 <Celestar> hi Darkvater 09:13:24 <Celestar> people we are reported to have desync problems in 0.4.6+ 09:16:15 <orudge> Darkvater: Not tried, shall do that when I'm hope 09:16:19 <orudge> Going home in an hour or so 09:16:39 * Celestar thinks he's on everyone's IGNORE list 09:16:57 <Darkvater> hi Celestar 09:17:02 <Darkvater> you're off now :P 09:17:19 <MiHaMiX> :DD 09:20:57 <Celestar> lol cool 09:23:06 <zen--> no you aint, i hear ya:) 09:23:21 <zen--> i think the AI should not be written just in C 09:23:24 <MiHaMiX> 5 09:23:27 <MiHaMiX> oops 09:26:18 <CIA-5> celestar * r4165 /trunk/elrail.c: -Do not use GetBridgeAxis on bridge ramps (request by Tron) 09:28:43 <Darkvater> Celestar: there've been always reports of desyncs in any version 09:28:57 <Darkvater> about 80% of the time it's incompatible newgrf settings 09:29:04 <CIA-5> tron * r4166 /trunk/ (9 files): Sprinkle several map accessors with assert()s 09:29:48 <MiHaMiX> wow, what a development speed :) 09:30:10 <MiHaMiX> 3 commits within 20 minutes 09:30:53 <Qball> newgrf is an easy thing to blaim all problems on, isn't it? 09:31:30 <Darkvater> Qball: yep, and mostly it's even right 09:31:38 <Qball> pffff 09:31:43 <Darkvater> at least until peter1138 saves newgrf-info ;) 09:31:49 <Celestar> Darkvater: in that case, the use told me that no newgrifs were loaded. 09:31:52 <Celestar> user* 09:32:01 <Qball> I have a special clean checkout for playing online 09:32:07 <Qball> and I have a lot of dsyncs 09:32:14 *** Sacro [i=Ben@adsl-83-100-200-149.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 09:32:15 <Qball> no newgrf there 09:32:24 <Qball> but I gave up on bug reporting to you guy's 09:32:40 <Celestar> where a bug reports? 09:33:01 <Darkvater> Qball: I'm just saying. cause EVERY time I start to debug a so-called desync game it doesn't desync for me 09:33:29 *** MagicJohn [n=magical@host81-156-149-103.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 09:33:31 <Celestar> we need to implement a checker that verifies that all clients (and the server) have the same files loaded. 09:33:33 <Qball> so the report is false. 09:33:38 <Qball> that's a way of seing it 09:33:51 <Celestar> yes and no. 09:33:59 <Darkvater> although I do think that something crucial and very small is not saved with the savegame because desyncs usually happen when you join a game that has been running for some time 09:34:03 * Qball is listening to Simone, Nina - Go To Hell 09:34:50 <Celestar> Darkvater: I tend to agree. 09:34:53 <Celestar> but how to find it? 09:35:18 <Darkvater> :P 09:35:38 <peter1138> fatal error LNK1000: unknown error; consult documentation for technical support options 09:35:41 <peter1138> o_O 09:35:49 <Darkvater> Hd full? 09:35:50 <Celestar> HAHA 09:36:05 <peter1138> nope 09:36:08 <Celestar> one MIGHT think that a full drive is known problem. 09:36:14 <peter1138> hmm, minilzo.obj 09:36:45 <Darkvater> Celestar: I think it could be done by printing out every random-number and which function it was called from. Make server&client sync on every frame and when it desyncs try to figure out what the callstack was and where things differed 09:36:50 <Darkvater> NOT easy :( 09:37:01 <Celestar> Darkvater: the first thing is easy. 09:37:06 <Celestar> the second is rather easy too 09:37:17 <peter1138> just rather a lot of dat 09:37:19 <peter1138> +a 09:37:26 <Celestar> diff is your friend 09:37:43 <Celestar> #ifdef ENABLE_NETWORK_SYNC_EVERY_FRAME 09:37:47 <peter1138> newgrf_engine.h:15: warning: 'struct SpriteGroup' declared inside parameter list 09:37:54 * peter1138 wonders what he did wrong there... o_O 09:37:59 <Darkvater> Celestar: diff is not enough. You HAVE to look at the code 09:38:06 <peter1138> oh 09:38:09 <CIA-5> egladil * r4167 /branch/32bpp/ (25 files): [32bpp] -Added 32bpp versions of AddSortableSpriteToDraw() and AddChildSpriteScreen(). 09:38:30 <Celestar> Darkvater: I mean diffing the RNG outputs. 09:38:39 <Darkvater> Celestar: and even then you're not sure that it wasn't caused by some buffer-overflow 20 minutes earlier 09:38:52 <Celestar> Darkvater: that'S the bigger problem. 09:38:56 <Celestar> Darkvater: there is another way tho. 09:39:22 <Celestar> make a savegame every day. 09:39:38 <Celestar> binary-compare these savegames. 09:39:48 <peter1138> that doesn't help if it's something that isn't saved 09:39:50 <Celestar> if the desync happens and savegames are identical, we miss stuff 09:40:41 <Celestar> and if that doesn't help, then hell, save every frame. 09:40:50 <Darkvater> Celestar: o_O 09:41:05 <Celestar> you'd just have to disable compression. 09:41:08 <orudge> Right, time to go 09:41:09 * orudge goes 09:41:12 <Darkvater> bye 09:41:15 <egladil> hmm. header dependencies makes the commit look much larger than it was... 09:41:15 *** orudge [n=orudge@orudge.plus.com] has quit ["To the batmobile!"] 09:41:16 <Celestar> bye :) 09:41:26 <Celestar> egladil: :) 09:41:31 <Darkvater> good luck doing this for 30-game years 09:41:41 <Darkvater> and having enough HD-space for it 09:41:45 <Celestar> ok how big is a savegame= 09:41:45 <Celestar> ? 09:41:53 <Celestar> lets say 500kB 09:41:55 <zen--> or maybe 09:42:06 <zen--> the server should seed the random 09:42:10 <Darkvater> I was 1-frame debugging a running networkg-game, and ly that took 200MB after a few years of gameplay 09:42:23 <Celestar> Darkvater: I'll needa do it on the cluster during a weekend or something then. 09:42:36 <peter1138> zen--: it does 09:42:51 <Celestar> got 1TB of RAID0 scratch space there. and Quad Opterons. should work out. 09:43:51 <SpComb> hmm 09:44:13 <Celestar> run 2 companies, and have 2 CPUS handle the save-thread 09:45:01 <SpComb> all for openttd <3 09:45:09 <Celestar> yeah \o/ 09:49:35 <zen--> but 09:49:37 <zen--> in the meantime 09:49:50 <zen--> could you introduce rejoin button on desync dialog? 09:49:50 <zen--> :D 09:50:02 <zen--> or console command 09:50:05 <zen--> reconnect 09:50:16 <zen--> i'd like that:) 09:50:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: have you recognized my elrails problem i stated earlier? 09:51:09 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: no? 09:51:41 <Eddi|zuHause> [30.03. 02:07] <Eddi|zuHause2> when a station platform is part electrified, and part not 09:51:43 <Eddi|zuHause> [30.03. 02:07] * CobraA3 (n=Jeremiah@cpe-024-088-000-194.sc.res.rr.com) has joined #openttd 09:51:43 <Eddi|zuHause> [30.03. 02:07] <Eddi|zuHause2> and a train comes from the non-electrical part 09:51:43 <Eddi|zuHause> [30.03. 02:07] <Eddi|zuHause2> it does not go to the end of the platform 09:51:43 <Eddi|zuHause> [30.03. 02:08] <Eddi|zuHause2> but it stops at the end of the non-electrified part 09:52:01 <Sacro> i remember that conversation 09:52:18 <Celestar> that was in the middle of the night! 09:52:22 <Celestar> :q 09:52:50 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but you do have a log i assume ;) 09:53:02 <Celestar> theoretically ;) 09:54:13 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: problem noted. please add a bug report. 09:54:18 <Darkvater> who in their right mind would build a station where the first 2 tiles are elraila nd the other two are not? 09:54:27 <Darkvater> I say f8ck those users 09:54:39 <Celestar> Darkvater: you seem rather radical today ;) 09:54:46 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B8034E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 09:54:49 <Darkvater> coffee does that to you :P 09:55:04 <peter1138> woo, it compiled 09:55:17 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem is not "who does this", the problem is "it is possible, so there will be someone who does it" (murphy 09:55:23 <Eddi|zuHause> ) 09:55:31 <Celestar> yes 09:56:11 <Darkvater> England Limits Water Use as Worst Drought in a Century Looms 09:56:13 <Darkvater> wow 09:56:26 <Darkvater> Eddi|zuHause: no. Stupidity should not be encouraged 09:56:44 <zen--> :Q 09:57:02 <peter1138> smelly brits 09:57:02 <zen--> you workng fulltime on tt? 09:57:12 <peter1138> i wish :/ 09:57:13 <Darkvater> I'd consider this a bug only if the train was a mixed consist and then this happened. Not otherwise 09:57:27 <Darkvater> otherwise the game's working perfectly according to specs 09:57:30 <Celestar> Darkvater: it happens always afaik :( 09:57:38 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [i=johekr@p54B76E13.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:59:15 <zen--> has any anticheat system been introduced? 09:59:28 <Sacro> cant a train freewheel when it runs out of electric lines? 09:59:37 <Celestar> Sacro: i've disabled that. 09:59:52 <zen--> hm 09:59:56 <peter1138> no, because you don't know if it'll get power again 09:59:59 <peter1138> and then it'll be stuck 10:00:16 <Celestar> for the reasons peter1138 mentioned 10:00:24 <Celestar> and it is not a very realistic option. 10:00:33 <Celestar> trains don't freewheel in service 10:01:11 <Sacro> Celestar: ok 10:01:14 <Sacro> gtg, bbl 10:01:15 *** Sacro [i=Ben@adsl-83-100-200-149.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit ["Sacro has no reason"] 10:01:19 <Darkvater> zen--: yes. Hopefully the actions are protected sufficiently, meaning that if someone does something illegal he/she will desync immediately because the other players cannot execute that action in his name 10:02:23 <Darkvater> you CAN annoy people though ;) 10:04:58 <peter1138> hmm 65kb 10:07:33 <Celestar> your diff? 10:11:26 <Celestar> * @note Assumes a byte has 8 bits <= nice ! 10:12:12 <peter1138> yeah 10:15:23 <zen--> me?:D 10:15:27 <Darkvater> if that weren't true we could just as well throw out the whole codebase 10:15:31 <zen--> or what you ment by annoy 10:15:57 *** Jang- [n=Jango@mettab.demon.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:16:10 <Darkvater> anyone with enough VBA knowledge to tell me how to focus on a cell and scroll there automatically in excel? 10:17:09 <Naksu> A? 10:17:26 <zen--> .Select() ? 10:17:26 <Darkvater> VB for Applications 10:17:38 <Darkvater> that doesn't scroll there 10:17:41 <zen--> .Selection = true ? 10:18:00 <zen--> vba sux anyways... all they do is teach this in colleges 10:18:00 <zen--> :D 10:19:03 <Celestar> brb loo 10:23:41 <Darkvater> of cousre it sucks. But that doesn't havelp i f you have to use it 10:24:05 * Celestar hands Darkvater a new keyboard 10:25:01 <Naksu> vba sounds like something that sucks more than the xml database 10:25:10 <Darkvater> brb, can't kill excel help :s 10:25:11 <Naksu> "The database design will be fully extensible. All tables will have only a few columns (such as ID's and created dates), and the rest of the data will be stored in an XML-formatted TEXT column" 10:25:33 <Jang-> killall -9 excel_help 10:26:31 <Naksu> since you're already assuming *nix, you should also assume he's using man 10:26:37 *** BJH [n=chatzill@e176106191.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 10:27:43 *** Eddi|zuHause [i=johekr@p54B767B3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:33:16 <Jang-> Celestar: i think i've noticed a small niggle in elrail 10:33:29 <Celestar> Jang-: yes? 10:33:39 <Jang-> if you have an electrified track leading to non-electrified, the electric train will suddenly stop 10:33:46 <Jang-> as if it's hit a brick wall 10:34:08 <Jang-> where as normally, there'll be a slight slow down as the train approaches the end of the track 10:34:20 <Qball> it should just roll out over the non-electrified until it's stuck 10:34:21 <Jang-> just looks a bit odd 10:34:31 <Qball> or hits electrified again :D 10:34:39 <Celestar> Qball: and then? how do you get it moving? 10:34:47 <Qball> Celestar: not :D 10:34:47 <Jang-> heh, driver gets out and pushes 10:35:04 <Celestar> Jang-: can you post a report? 10:35:11 <Jang-> yeah, sure, where? 10:35:49 *** Jang- is now known as Jango 10:36:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... how long does it normally take to recieve the confirmation that one registered at flyspray? 10:36:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> must be over half an hour ago now... 10:39:05 <Jango> Notice: Undefined variable: register_text in /www/openttd.org/bugs/scripts/modify.php on line 607 10:39:05 <Jango> Notice: Undefined index: project_title in /www/openttd.org/bugs/scripts/modify.php on line 607 10:39:05 <Jango> Notice: Undefined index: flyspray_userid in /www/openttd.org/bugs/includes/notify.inc.php on line 264 10:39:19 <Jango> can we submit reports for flyspray too ? :P 10:40:01 <blathijs> hehe 10:40:06 <blathijs> upgraded PHP perhaps? :-) 10:40:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, i got those, too... i did not think about them much... 10:40:23 <zen--> oky ppl 10:40:25 <zen--> cu later 10:53:37 <CIA-5> celestar * r4168 /trunk/station_map.h: -Fix: Fixed a typo in previous commit 10:56:47 *** Zr40 [n=Zirconiu@cl-1124.ams-04.nl.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:01:44 *** zen-- [n=zen@mindware.ee] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:01:48 *** johnny83 [n=chatzill@P3313.p.pppool.de] has joined #openttd 11:03:47 *** DaleStan_ [n=Dale@12-202-240-195.client.insightBB.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:05:12 <CIA-5> celestar * r4169 /trunk/station_map.h: -Codechange: Removed an include which accidently slipped into a commit 11:08:57 <Jango> celestar * r4170 /trunk/station_map.h: -Codechange: Removed a remove which was accidently removed because of a revert 11:10:23 <Celestar> :P 11:10:33 <Jango> :) 11:11:13 <CIA-5> egladil * r4170 /branch/32bpp/ (13 files): [32bpp] -Draw vehicles with the players colour instead of all blue. 11:11:38 <CIA-5> celestar * r4171 /trunk/ (water_cmd.c water_map.h): -Codechange: Create map accessor functions for creating ship depots and locks. Make use of them 11:21:40 <CIA-5> celestar * r4172 /trunk/ (water_cmd.c water_map.h): -Codechange: Added a few accessors to work with ShipDepots and Locks 11:33:53 <Tobin> Hmmm. 11:34:07 <Tobin> How is the 32bpp branch going? And where is it going? :P 11:40:37 <egladil> it is going slowly 11:40:51 <egladil> and hopefully forward :) 11:41:03 <Celestar> egladil: anything testable already? 11:41:15 <egladil> it is playable 11:41:21 <Celestar> anything I needa do? 11:41:57 <egladil> nothing that you wouldn't need to do for trunk 11:43:26 <Celestar> bah 11:43:28 <Celestar> building is SLOW 11:43:34 <egladil> but it won't look very different from trunk. as only ground tiles and vehicles are aware of the new drawing code 11:44:02 *** ThePizzaKing [n=thepizza@c211-28-155-206.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit ["Don't worry, I'll be back tomorrow to annoy you then :)"] 11:45:01 <Celestar> it looks very different to me. 11:45:45 *** Spoco [n=Spoco@dsl-083-102-071-182.lohjanpuhelin.fi] has joined #openttd 11:46:21 <Celestar> arggggh 11:46:26 * Celestar punches matlab 11:46:32 <egladil> :) 11:46:35 *** Maedhros [n=jc@gentoo/developer/Maedhros] has joined #openttd 11:46:39 <egladil> matlab is evil incarnate 11:47:42 <Darkvater> egladil: you might want to do womthing though about the coding style :) 11:48:10 <egladil> any particular places i did wrong, or is it everywhere? 11:48:37 <Darkvater> you seem very determined about using if( instead of if ( 11:48:47 <Darkvater> also things like h-= instead of h -= 11:48:54 <egladil> hmm 11:48:58 <Darkvater> just looking through 4170 cause I'm bored 11:49:10 <peter1138> 68 if(maxrgb == minrgb) 69 *h = 0; 70 else { 71 if(maxrgb == r) { 11:49:14 <peter1138> yeah 11:49:16 <peter1138> errrr 11:49:19 <peter1138> hmm 11:49:21 <peter1138> well, there should be braces around there 11:49:32 <peter1138> if(maxrgb == 0) 11:49:33 <egladil> yes 11:49:34 <peter1138> *s = 0; 11:49:35 <peter1138> else 11:49:44 <peter1138> *s = ((maxrgb - minrgb) * 0xff) / maxrgb; 11:49:45 <peter1138> o_O 11:49:58 <Matt-W> space after the if! space after the if! 11:50:04 <peter1138> *s = (maxrgb == 0) ? 0 : ((maxrgb - minrgb) * 0xff) / maxrgb; 11:50:24 <egladil> i copied that code directly from the old version. should have looked it through first... 11:50:36 <Darkvater> also what's with all the 0xff? Is that some special mask? 11:50:41 <Darkvater> Best to name it I think 11:50:56 <Darkvater> if(*r < 0) 11:50:57 <Darkvater> 118 *r = 0; 11:50:57 <Darkvater> 119 if(*r > 0xff) 11:50:57 <Darkvater> 120 *r = 0xff; 11:50:59 <Darkvater> clamp! 11:51:13 <Darkvater> clamp(*r, 0, 0xff) 11:51:19 <peter1138> yeah 11:51:38 <peter1138> r = (clr >> 16) & 0xff 11:51:42 <peter1138> r = GB(clr, 16, 8); 11:51:59 <Darkvater> also you have this big, long HSv2RGB switch there. Might be nicer to just have 11:52:11 <Darkvater> case 1: *r = q; *g = v; *b = p; break; 11:52:13 <Darkvater> on one line 11:52:19 <peter1138> actually, this is a branch, so i could do this myself... 11:52:22 <Darkvater> but that might be optional, and just me 11:53:16 <peter1138> it would be it easier to read there, i think 11:53:24 <peter1138> egladil: do you mind me going through it? heh 11:53:56 <egladil> go ahead 11:54:01 <egladil> just don't break it :) 11:54:14 <peter1138> as if ;) 11:54:20 <Darkvater> just being very annoying but I think there should be a better way of doing these pseudo-palette assignments 11:54:27 <Celestar> egladil: apart from the coding style, the map looks awesome when you zoom out. 11:54:30 <Celestar> := 11:54:32 <Celestar> :) 11:54:40 <Darkvater> now it is if (&crashed) DM_GREYSCALE else DM_PLAYERCOLOUR 11:55:11 <Darkvater> getting very repetitious doing this after a the zillionth modifier :). Some wrapper would be usefule I reckon 11:55:18 <Darkvater> Celestar: can you host a pic for me somewhere? 11:55:23 <Celestar> Darkvater: yes I can 11:55:26 <Celestar> gimme 10 11:55:52 * Darkvater gives Celestar 10 somethings 11:55:57 <egladil> Darkvater: it probably would 11:56:38 <Darkvater> I love this though 11:56:38 <Darkvater> case CONVHINT_PLAYERCOLORS: 11:56:38 <Darkvater> 1871 case CONVHINT_PLAYERCOLOURS: 11:56:41 <Darkvater> ]o/ 11:56:43 <Darkvater> hmm 11:56:44 <Darkvater> \o/ 11:56:46 <Darkvater> there 11:56:57 <egladil> blame peter1138 for that :) 11:57:16 <egladil> he was ranting a month ago or so about there being to much color in openttd and not enough colour 11:57:39 <Darkvater> no, no I'm all for it 11:58:26 <Darkvater> I donnu the meaning of 0xff (I think it's the colour-space, no 0-255?), but really, either GB() it or define it to some useful name 11:58:33 <Celestar> Darkvater: http://www.fvfischer.de/32bpp.png 11:58:45 <egladil> yes it is the colourspace 11:59:37 <Darkvater> woow, egladil that's awesome 11:59:40 <Darkvater> (the pic) 11:59:59 <egladil> thanks 11:59:59 <Matt-W> I assume current on the left, 32bpp on the right 12:00:06 <Matt-W> or something entirely different? 12:00:12 <Celestar> Matt-W: yes 12:00:15 <Matt-W> nice 12:00:20 <Darkvater> does it still do the palette animations? 12:00:22 <Darkvater> like the ocean 12:00:28 <Matt-W> even without redoing teh graphics sets that's a really nice improvement 12:00:38 <Darkvater> now all we need is ttf ^ 12:00:38 <CIA-5> celestar * r4173 /trunk/station_cmd.c: -Codechange: Use IsClearWaterTile for buoy construction 12:00:53 *** g0ne|angrYAngel [i=scitor@p549F1BDC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 12:00:54 <Celestar> no animations yet. 12:00:57 <egladil> no, it doesn't do palette animation 12:01:09 <Celestar> there is no palette in 32bpp ;) 12:01:16 <Celestar> Matt-W: I agree 12:01:18 <Matt-W> but you could fake it 12:01:33 <egladil> as that would require multiple copies of the animated sprites (or reconverting them every animation tick) 12:01:34 <Darkvater> Matt-W: I think 32bpp should be kept fully compatible with the old graphics (which by the looks of this does not seem to pose a problem), because a LOT of people love the old grpahics 12:01:36 <Matt-W> Celestar: and if it lets us have antialiased fonts in the newspapers too that'd be grand 12:01:37 <Celestar> Matt-W: difference is much less apparent fully zoomed in. 12:01:49 <Matt-W> Celestar: obviously :-) 12:01:58 <Matt-W> Darkvater: yes, but people will want 32bpp graphics as well of course 12:02:06 <Darkvater> Matt-W: obviously ;p 12:02:23 <egladil> the difference in zoomed out is linear interpolation vs pixel dropping 12:02:24 <Celestar> egladil: is there difference just the colordepth? or was the old blitter crap? 12:02:24 <Darkvater> I think alltaken did a great job capturing the essence, but still 12:02:27 <Darkvater> old = good 12:02:36 <Celestar> egladil: ah! 12:02:54 *** g0ne|angrYAngel is now known as scitor 12:02:58 <egladil> the old blitter was not crap. but it couldn't do the things required for 32bpp 12:03:12 <Celestar> egladil: any way to backport linear interpolation to trunk? ;) 12:03:42 <egladil> probably not 12:03:44 <Darkvater> now I must point at KUDr and ask where PBS is being :) 12:04:16 <Celestar> peter1138: are you doing some work on the acceleration stuff? so that I can remove it off my todo? 12:04:17 <egladil> as it needs more colours than is available in 8bpp 12:04:18 *** glx [i=glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 12:06:35 <Darkvater> what's with #include gfx.h moved up 2 lines in r4167? 12:07:17 *** Belugas_Gone [n=Jfranc@216.191.111.226] has joined #openttd 12:07:43 <Darkvater> what does DrawSpriteWithHint do? 12:08:24 <scitor> hi folks, I'm serving a dedicated linux server, and wanted to update it from 0.4.5 to 0.4.7 but i messed up something. I need some help instaling the new version, I'm getting strange errors... 12:08:34 *** black_Nightmare [n=Husky_dr@modemcable254.254-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 12:08:38 <black_Nightmare> hey 12:08:50 <egladil> it allows for passing conversion hints to the 8bpp=>32bpp converter without having to do drawmode setup 12:09:14 <egladil> so it could be called a intermediate step for my convenience 12:09:42 <Celestar> devs, 12:09:50 <Celestar> we need to decide what to do with cargopackets 12:11:12 <Darkvater> scitor: strange as in? 12:11:50 <Matt-W> Celestar: is this the thing that gives cargo like passengers a destination? 12:12:13 <Celestar> Matt-W: yes 12:12:28 <Darkvater> hmm 12:12:39 <Matt-W> hmm 12:12:47 <Matt-W> it's a fairly fundamental gameplay change isn't it 12:13:14 <scitor> hmm, I used the same configs (path,dedicated) to compile 0.4.7 and now it says wrong/missing GRFs, but i did it like with the 0.4.5 12:13:23 <peter1138> egladil: http://195.112.37.102/ottd/style.diff or something 12:13:45 <Darkvater> scitor: did you run any make install or similar? Where are your data files? 12:14:22 <scitor> yes, make install to install it to my ~/openttd folder. The data dir is in it 12:14:39 <peter1138> 13:03 < Darkvater> now all we need is ttf ^ 12:14:52 <peter1138> i have a (rudimentary) patch for that... 12:15:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> scitor: you sure you copied the original TTD data files in there? 12:15:25 <Darkvater> peter1138: problem though: OSX and Windows 12:15:40 <peter1138> yeah, didn't try it on those 12:16:02 <egladil> peter1138: looks ok 12:17:41 <scitor> yes, i did. I copied the original grfs and cat file(s) into the install dir, didnt work. I had another error without the DISABLE_ASSERTS option enabled, I've compiled it right now aithout it, to see the error again: 'openttd: gfxinit.c:88: LoadGrfIndexed: Assertion `b' failed.' 12:17:43 <peter1138> (not tested, or even compiled, heh) 12:18:08 <egladil> compiling right now 12:18:19 <Darkvater> peter1138: there's a patch on SF somewhere which adds support for japanese characters. I think the person used ttf 12:20:50 <Darkvater> scitor: you could do the same thing I told the last person who had this problem. Use strace to find out where openttd is looking for your data files :P 12:21:10 <Darkvater> scitor: but also make sure that if you have changed paths you COMPILE openttd with those settings and not only run install 12:21:22 *** johnny83 [n=chatzill@P3313.p.pppool.de] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.72 [Firefox 1.5.0.1/2006011112]"] 12:21:47 <scitor> yes, i compile it everytime i change some options... I'll try strace now... 12:22:14 <Celestar> Matt-W: destination would be optional (difficulty setting) 12:22:36 *** e1ko [n=31k0@a02-0432c.kn.vutbr.cz] has joined #openttd 12:22:47 <Maedhros> ooh, i've found a (slight) elrails bug 12:23:01 *** Zr40 [n=Zirconiu@cl-1124.ams-04.nl.sixxs.net] has joined #openttd 12:23:14 <Maedhros> if you build rails above tunnel entrances you sometimes get an extra pylon, as if to join to the track coming out of the tunnel 12:23:31 <scitor> hmm, the paths are right, the file it wants to open exists (open("/home/openttd/openttd/data/openttd.grf", O_RDONLY)) 12:23:53 <Matt-W> scitor: and it's readable? 12:23:59 <scitor> :) it is 12:24:00 <Matt-W> (obvious question I know) 12:24:02 <Celestar> Maedhros: screenshot please 12:24:06 <Matt-W> but usually worth checking 12:24:15 <Maedhros> Celestar: http://dev.gentoo.org/~maedhros/images/elrails-glitch.png 12:27:09 <SpComb> ping 12:27:20 *** SpComb [i=terom@zapotek.paivola.fi] has joined #openttd 12:27:25 <scitor> hmm, maybe old compiler version? 12:28:13 *** Zahl [n=SENFGURK@dslb-082-083-206-009.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 12:28:17 <Celestar> Darkvater: why do I not get this warning? :o 12:28:19 <Darkvater> crap 12:28:30 <Darkvater> rm trg1r.grf trg1r.grf.bak instead of mv 12:28:31 <Darkvater> :( 12:28:42 <Celestar> need it? 12:28:45 <Darkvater> why are my typing skills so bad :( 12:28:57 <Darkvater> please 12:29:26 <Darkvater> thx 12:29:31 <scitor> another question, i dont have to copy the original grfs into the source dir, do i? only into the install dir 12:30:13 <Celestar> Maedhros: trying to solve problem :) 12:30:29 <Maedhros> Celestar: cool :) 12:30:31 <Darkvater> scitor: if original grfs are missing it says so, yours says something else 12:31:52 <Celestar> Maedhros: might not be easy to solve 12:32:38 <egladil> Darkvater: would this be an improvement: http://emil.djupfeldt.se/ottd/32bpp/hsv_rgb_0xff.diff ? 12:33:06 <black_Nightmare> what would happen if you mix two different engines in one train? 12:33:26 <black_Nightmare> eg 112km/h 1000hp with a 128km/h 1200hp one 12:33:32 <Celestar> Maedhros: any chance that you could file a bug report on bugs.openttd.org? I'm at work now and a bit busy :( 12:33:39 <Darkvater> 23#:3 73#73 73#73\ 12:33:39 <Maedhros> Celestar: sure 12:33:40 <Darkvater> wtf 12:33:46 <Darkvater> 82#C2 @2#V3"T2#4- 12:33:50 <Celestar> thanks Maedhros 12:33:55 <Darkvater> my mouse doesn't work anymore 12:33:56 <Celestar> egladil: use -urN 12:34:05 <scitor> wtf... now, it works, out of the source dir... ive copied the original files into sourcedir/data... 12:34:07 <Darkvater> brb, egladil plese repaste when I'm back 12:34:07 <Jango> bugs.openttd.org is unoperational if you don't have a username 12:34:12 *** Darkvater [n=plop@5354EC24.cable.casema.nl] has quit ["leaving"] 12:34:18 <egladil> ? 12:34:30 <egladil> Celestar: i use svn diff 12:34:43 <egladil> it does those things automagically 12:35:29 <Celestar> back in 10 12:36:08 *** WolfLaptop [n=wolf@213.196.14.254] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:36:35 *** WolfLaptop [n=wolf@213.196.14.254] has joined #openttd 12:36:42 *** DarkSSH [n=plop@5354EC24.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 12:36:45 *** mode/#openttd [+o DarkSSH] by ChanServ 12:36:46 *** DarkSSH is now known as Darkvater 12:37:10 <egladil> Darkvater: was there something wrong with the diff? 12:37:11 <Darkvater> running openttd from the console was not a wise idea to do in a non-dedicated mode 12:37:18 <Darkvater> egladil: yes, paste the link :) 12:37:28 <egladil> http://emil.djupfeldt.se/ottd/32bpp/hsv_rgb_0xff.diff 12:37:53 <peter1138> egladil: use spaces in align the defines, not tabs 12:37:59 <egladil> ok 12:38:02 <peter1138> (but what is "BYTEMATH_MULDIV_CONST" ? 12:38:02 <peter1138> ) 12:38:24 <peter1138> also 12:38:28 <peter1138> why does my leg hurt? 12:39:17 <egladil> as i use integers in the range 0-255 instead of floats in the range 0-1 i have to scale the result after multiplication and division 12:40:04 <Darkvater> egladil: yeah, that looks better 12:41:01 <peter1138> yes, it does, heh 12:41:56 <Darkvater> egladil: but DO decide if you're using int* a or int *a 12:42:24 <Darkvater> InterpolateSpriteAndMaskHalfSize <-- also full of 'if(' ;) 12:43:34 <peter1138> tron'll fix it to int*, heh 12:43:55 *** tokai|mdlx [n=tokai@p54B84671.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 12:44:27 *** tokai|ni [n=tokai@p54B84671.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 12:45:01 * Darkvater shakes hands: NEVER :o.;'o:OooLo; 12:45:14 *** mode/#openttd [-o Darkvater] by Darkvater 12:45:16 <peter1138> never what? :P 12:45:19 <Darkvater> int8 12:45:20 <Darkvater> int* 12:45:36 <egladil> where do i mix int *a and int* a? 12:45:46 <Darkvater> InterpolateSpriteAndMaskHalfSize for example 12:46:10 <peter1138> hmm 12:46:16 <peter1138> my elrail stations are fucked up now 12:46:21 <peter1138> it's got the direction wrong 12:46:39 <peter1138> how strange 12:46:50 <peter1138> it draws the wrong direction for Y stations, and nothing for X station 12:46:52 <egladil> InterpolateSpriteAndMaskHalfSize only use int *a 12:46:54 <Darkvater> or 12:46:55 <Darkvater> static void GfxMainBlitter32bpp(const DrawPixelInfo32* dpi, const Sprite32* sprite, int x, int y, const DrawSpriteMode *mode); 12:46:56 <Jango> Celestar: i assume that elrails become available at the same time as the first electric train 12:47:20 <Jango> would be good to receive the track a year earlier so you can prepare :S 12:47:37 <Darkvater> static inline void GfxMainBlitter8bppTo32bpp(Pixel32 *dst32, Pixel *dst8, const Sprite* sprite, uint width, uint height, uint pitch, int x_offs, int y_offs) 12:48:01 <egladil> i noticed 12:48:07 <peter1138> lol 12:48:21 <peter1138> my callbacks work, but getting sprites isn't there 12:48:26 <Celestar> peter1138: what is wrong with elrails? 12:48:37 <egladil> those with type* name are things i didn't touch when rewriting 12:48:44 <peter1138> so i've got, with ukrs, a grain wagon with an oil tanker as an artic part 12:48:49 <egladil> those with type *name i wrote myself 12:48:55 <egladil> which way should it be? 12:48:57 <peter1138> Celestar: stations... maybe it's my build... 12:49:28 <peter1138> egladil: as tron spent a lot of time going from "type *var" to "type* var", up to you ;p 12:49:48 <egladil> well, i prefer type *var 12:50:29 <Matt-W> I thought the coding style for OpenTTD said type *var 12:50:48 <MiHaMiX> wow, cool :) 12:50:49 <Matt-W> which is of course the One True Way 12:51:14 <scitor> ok, now it should work... thanks :) fantastic game,btw 12:54:41 *** SpComb [i=terom@zapotek.paivola.fi] has joined #openttd 12:57:50 <Celestar> back 12:58:01 <Celestar> peter1138: newstations? 12:58:12 <Celestar> peter1138: maybe I can be of help? 12:58:16 <CIA-5> egladil * r4176 /branch/32bpp/gfx.c: [32bpp] -Some code cleanup and coding style fixes. 12:58:39 <peter1138> Celestar: no, standard stations 12:58:47 <scitor> bye, and thanks for help :) maybe ill change from php to C, and join you some day ;) 12:58:54 <peter1138> the catenary is just incorrect 12:59:08 <Celestar> peter1138: in trunk? :o 12:59:15 *** scitor [i=scitor@p549F1BDC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 3.81 :: www.XLhost.de )"] 12:59:26 <peter1138> i think so... i'm patched with newgrf stuff, but haven't touched that 12:59:55 <Celestar> peter1138: :o 12:59:59 <Celestar> there is something faulty 13:00:02 <Celestar> peter1138: I'm on it 13:01:05 *** Weeble888 [i=Weeble88@user-2163.lns6-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:01:13 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B8034E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:01:17 *** Osai [n=Osai@p54B34C78.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:01:54 <peter1138> waypoints smell too 13:02:00 <Darkvater> 14:52 <@peter1138> ah, Darkvater :) <-- we needed a style, and someone had to decide :) 13:02:11 <Darkvater> which turned out to be me, and you all know my preference 13:02:13 <Celestar> peter1138: I think I got it 13:02:44 *** DaleStan [n=Dale@12-202-240-195.client.insightBB.com] has joined #openttd 13:02:55 <peter1138> shall we go back and revert all tron's " *" -> "* " changes then? ;p 13:03:03 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B8034E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:03:06 <Celestar> peter1138: nope its something else 13:03:27 <peter1138> is it broken for you as well? 13:03:34 <Celestar> yes 13:03:36 <peter1138> ah 13:03:36 <Celestar> but I found the error 13:03:39 <hylje> mm 13:03:39 <peter1138> mm 13:03:42 <peter1138> oi 13:03:47 <peter1138> don't copy me ;) 13:03:49 <Celestar> peter1138: rev 4164 13:03:56 <peter1138> yay, 5 errors from loading pb_ukrs.grf 13:03:59 <peter1138> instead of massive spammage 13:04:13 <MiHaMiX> http://translator2.openttd.org/images/screenshots/screenshot_manage_4.png 13:04:17 <Darkvater> peter1138: how did the aircraft-grf look? 13:04:17 <MiHaMiX> http://translator2.openttd.org/images/screenshots/screenshot_manage_5.png 13:04:29 <Celestar> peter1138: I think I might have forgotten to implement waypoints :o 13:04:40 <peter1138> Darkvater: mart3p's patch? 13:04:51 <peter1138> MiHaMiX: niiiice 13:05:00 <Darkvater> the guy with the dog-avatar 13:05:23 <MiHaMiX> peter1138: thanks :) 13:05:45 <peter1138> looked pretty good, but i seem to be ripping it all out again 13:05:56 <MiHaMiX> okay, bbl, have to do some work @ workplace :) 13:06:22 <Celestar> peter1138: there you go. 13:06:27 <CIA-5> celestar * r4177 /trunk/elrail.c: -Fix: GetRailTrackBitsUniversal needs Trackbits, not Track. While at it, remove an unused variable 13:06:35 <peter1138> \o/ 13:06:38 <Darkvater> MiHaMiX: I like the reason and who-did-it, great idea 13:06:49 <peter1138> MiHaMiX: damn you, i keep trying to use the scroll bars ;) 13:07:33 <peter1138> Celestar: that works :) 13:07:49 <Celestar> peter1138: dealing with waypoints later. 13:07:55 <peter1138> *nod* 13:08:26 <peter1138> http://translator2.openttd.org/images/screenshots/screenshot_manage_5.png 13:08:27 <peter1138> err 13:08:29 <peter1138> damn 13:08:40 <peter1138> "Invalid special sprite length 6 (expected 7)!" is the error left 13:08:45 <peter1138> i know what that is, too 13:09:43 <peter1138> it's safe to ignore though, as it's either AI related or autoreplace selection 13:10:35 *** Osai^2 [n=Osai@p54B34E26.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:11:49 <MiHaMiX> peter1138: :DDDDDDDDDD 13:11:52 *** mgla [n=mgla@wikipedia/mgla] has joined #openttd 13:12:46 <Celestar> peter1138: there you go. 13:12:48 <CIA-5> celestar * r4178 /trunk/elrail.c: -Fix: Draw catenary inside waypoints as well 13:14:27 <Celestar> peter1138: I keep trying the scrollbars as well :P 13:15:31 *** glx is now known as glx|away 13:16:08 <peter1138> bah, seggy faulty 13:16:50 <peter1138> probably not checking for null somewhere 13:17:24 <Celestar> peter1138: what? :o 13:17:59 *** zen-- [n=zen@mindware.ee] has joined #openttd 13:18:20 <peter1138> my code 13:18:26 <Celestar> ok :) 13:19:06 *** ^Cartman^ [n=Eric_Car@ti100710a081-6310.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 13:22:12 *** Weeble888 [i=Weeble88@user-2163.lns6-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:22:18 <peter1138> yay, it works ;p 13:22:46 <peter1138> and the standard five is the right colour 13:22:59 <Celestar> 2cc? 13:23:10 <peter1138> no, it's a different sprite 13:23:22 <peter1138> crap, i've not got ttdp installed :/ 13:25:44 <Tobin> peter1138: That's a bad thing? ;-) 13:27:37 *** Osai [n=Osai@p54B34C78.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:28:36 *** WolfLaptop [n=wolf@213.196.14.254] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:28:49 *** WolfLaptop [n=wolf@213.196.14.254] has joined #openttd 13:29:57 <peter1138> Tobin: it is when i want to compare 13:33:54 <peter1138> dbsetxl appears to work still 13:44:50 <egladil> four more commits today and openttd will make it unto the cia top ten list for today :) 13:46:10 <peter1138> 68 KB o_O 13:46:13 <peter1138> errr 13:46:14 <peter1138> no it's not 13:46:24 <peter1138> oh, yes it is 13:46:28 <peter1138> i have added the files, heh 13:46:42 <peter1138> hmm, but not done the station resolver 13:46:57 <peter1138> (which is used by waypoints currently) 13:47:09 <Celestar> egladil: I might have some more .. 13:55:31 <zen--> define cia 13:56:31 <peter1138> hmm, triggers aren't done either 13:57:00 <Darkvater> zen--: syntax error 13:57:39 <zen--> btw guys, most of the code of openttd is beautiful, so nice job 13:58:19 <zen--> maillist 13:58:24 <zen--> !maillist 13:58:26 <zen--> :) 13:58:27 <zen--> hm 13:59:13 <Darkvater> hmm, /me thinks zen-- has some visual programs 13:59:16 <Darkvater> eck 13:59:17 <Darkvater> problems 13:59:48 <zen--> em 13:59:50 <zen--> why? 13:59:55 <tokai|mdlx> compared to some other sources ottd code is pretty okay:) 14:00:15 <zen--> ive seen bad c source around... and openttd is okay:) 14:00:23 <Celestar> the ICAO is full of SHIT 14:00:35 <zen--> ICAO? 14:00:51 <Celestar> International Civil Aviation Orginazation 14:01:10 <Celestar> http://icaodsu.openface.ca/search_results.ch2?Category=group&DocSectionID=44 <= look at the prices. for a fUCKING document 14:01:13 <Darkvater> cause you're the first one to think positively of openttd-source 14:01:38 <zen--> :D 14:01:47 <zen--> hey i am a fulltime programmer 14:01:50 <Celestar> Darkvater: there ARE worse sources. 14:01:53 <zen--> i know what i am talking about 14:01:55 <Celestar> there are better ones as well. 14:02:06 <zen--> know the term: good enough?:D 14:02:19 <zen--> if smth is good enough you move to next task 14:02:24 <zen--> its how things work 14:02:31 <Darkvater> just surprised that's all 14:02:54 <Darkvater> Celestar: *cough* Simutrans 14:03:05 <zen--> how about exporting api to c# so i could do some real AI 14:03:15 <zen--> any thoights on that? 14:03:19 <Darkvater> zen--: have a look@ openttd.gpmi 14:03:21 <zen--> or should i do it on my own:D 14:03:39 <Celestar> Darkvater: what's up with simutrans? 14:03:53 <Celestar> zen--: what platforms is c# working on. I mean REALLY working? 14:04:07 <Darkvater> zen--: perhaps not exactly what you are looking for but they (#openttd.gpmi) are fully modularizing openttd and with the help of gpmi allow you to write an AI in almost any language you want 14:04:17 <Darkvater> Celestar: I've seen the source. It (st) is worse 14:04:25 <Celestar> Darkvater: ok :) 14:04:32 <Celestar> well, we have Tron ;) 14:04:48 <zen--> well 14:04:48 <zen--> no 14:04:51 <zen--> i mean 14:04:58 <zen--> in c# you dont have to think of the memory 14:04:59 <zen--> :) 14:05:09 <zen--> and in AI level you really shouldnt bother with that 14:05:12 <zen--> :) 14:05:16 <zen--> thats why c# 14:05:22 <Celestar> does C# work on Morphos, linux, FreeBSD ... 14:05:23 <zen--> and i am not talking about generic AI 14:05:31 <Celestar> I mean are there proper compilers for it? 14:05:33 <zen--> c# runs on mono 14:05:40 <zen--> yes 14:05:41 <zen--> there are 14:05:42 <Celestar> I see 14:05:59 <zen--> i recently made a compiler that compiles C# to php, javascript and java 14:06:03 <zen--> so 14:06:07 <hylje> :o 14:06:10 <zen--> you develop in c# IDE 14:06:14 <zen--> and run where you want it 14:06:24 <zen--> maybe i will make c# to c also 14:06:33 <zen--> that means 14:06:45 <zen--> memory management will be atomatically programmed for you 14:06:46 <zen--> :) 14:06:58 <black_Nightmare> zen-- .. are you the same 'zen' that I see on maarten's server? 14:07:01 <black_Nightmare> just wondering 14:07:02 <zen--> jub 14:07:05 <zen--> and u? 14:07:33 <zen--> i am the guy that gets bored and creates lakes:D 14:07:44 <zen--> if profit is over 15 million 14:07:45 <zen--> :) 14:07:52 <black_Nightmare> zen....different nicks in different place for me (eg openttd and irc are different) but .... take a guess who goes with a fantasy creature name :p 14:08:16 <zen--> hm 14:08:16 <Celestar> .oO(I'm not stupid and pay 1 THOUSAND bucks for a fucking pdf on a CD) 14:08:31 <black_Nightmare> zen...can you guess or no? :P 14:08:43 <zen--> give a hint what u did in a game 14:08:50 <zen--> i was in:) 14:08:55 <zen--> so i could relate 14:09:14 <zen--> any bumpy roads? 14:09:19 <zen--> any oil rigs? 14:10:45 <black_Nightmare> zen....here is a hint...name started with a D 14:10:55 <Darkvater> Celestar: I suppose there are no copies around on bittorrent :P 14:11:35 <Celestar> Darkvater: I think not. 14:11:37 <zen--> dragon 14:12:01 <zen--> ? 14:12:02 <zen--> :D 14:12:16 <zen--> if not then i am not sure:) 14:12:46 <black_Nightmare> zen...you got it right 14:13:07 *** e1ko [n=31k0@a02-0432c.kn.vutbr.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:13:28 <black_Nightmare> me running a lot of early dmu trains now on one map :p 14:13:38 <black_Nightmare> there's only one single non-dmu trains...and its hauling 7 goods cars :)) 14:14:25 *** KUDr_wrk [n=KUDr@pcsousek.fit.vutbr.cz] has joined #openttd 14:14:44 <Darkvater> hi KUDr_wrk 14:14:49 <KUDr_wrk> hi 14:15:33 <Darkvater> any PF/PBS progress/status report? 14:16:19 <KUDr_wrk> still at lowest layer of PF (cache + containers) 14:16:39 <KUDr_wrk> but soon i should move to real PF 14:16:55 *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas 14:17:28 <Darkvater> KUDr_wrk: yaay :) 14:17:54 <Darkvater> KUDr_wrk: don't forget to do some commits, even wip, non-working things. Som epeople are getting histerical about there not being any activity 14:17:57 <Darkvater> hi Belugas 14:18:23 <KUDr_wrk> then I must sync it with the trunk first 14:18:40 <Belugas> Good day Darkvater And to the rest of you as well :) 14:18:40 <KUDr_wrk> I am syncing my sources regularly 14:18:54 <KUDr_wrk> but then I don't know how to do that on SVN 14:19:25 <KUDr_wrk> Belugas: good day to you too 14:20:20 <KUDr_wrk> Darkvater: you don't like hysterical people? 14:20:37 <Darkvater> KUDr_wrk: you can imagin :) 14:20:44 <zen--> whos doing the gmpi 14:20:50 <zen--> gpmi 14:20:56 <Darkvater> zen--: TrueLight mostly 14:20:58 <KUDr_wrk> I work with such ppl every day 14:21:19 <Darkvater> KUDr_wrk: synching is easy. just checkout the code, synchronize and commit 14:21:20 <zen--> he was also doing the AI? 14:21:39 <KUDr_wrk> OK, so I will try it 14:21:40 <Darkvater> yes, the newAI in openttd (the one tha'ts doing the busses only) 14:22:00 *** CobraA1 [n=Jeremiah@cpe-024-088-000-194.sc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 14:22:37 *** Oktal [n=mat@adsl-83-100-162-188.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit ["Boring generic quit message"] 14:22:47 *** CobraA1 [n=Jeremiah@cpe-024-088-000-194.sc.res.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 14:24:03 <KUDr_wrk> Darkvater: what prefix should i use? Still [PBS] or [YAPF]? 14:24:54 <peter1138> [PBS] as it's the pbs branch, i'd say 14:25:02 <Darkvater> yeah 14:25:04 <KUDr_wrk> OK 14:25:10 <KUDr_wrk> sounds good 14:25:19 *** Bjarni [n=Bjarni@0x50a46c27.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 14:25:21 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 14:25:21 <KUDr_wrk> and for YAPF related files? 14:25:34 <KUDr_wrk> extra directory /yapf/ 14:25:43 <KUDr_wrk> or prefix/postfix 14:25:44 <black_Nightmare> zen.....so what you doing now anyhow? 14:25:54 <black_Nightmare> *is waiting for the server to be rebooted* 14:26:01 <black_Nightmare> I mean openttd server ^^^ 14:26:19 <Darkvater> yapf? 14:26:28 <peter1138> yet another pathfinder, i'd gues 14:26:29 <peter1138> +s 14:26:38 <KUDr_wrk> yes 14:26:48 <Darkvater> haha 14:26:55 <KUDr_wrk> still don't have better name 14:27:33 <Darkvater> is it a certain transport-type only? 14:27:45 <Celestar> this "YA**" has been introduces by me :) 14:27:48 <KUDr_wrk> should not be at the end 14:28:05 <Celestar> took it from "YaST" 14:28:15 <KUDr_wrk> I will probably test it on ships first 14:28:19 <KUDr_wrk> then RV 14:28:22 <KUDr_wrk> then trains 14:28:22 <zen--> well 14:28:26 <zen--> i am gathering intel 14:28:26 <zen--> :D 14:28:31 <KUDr_wrk> as the trains will be most complicated 14:29:02 <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: will you have a system that makes is easy to add new penalties? 14:29:17 <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: hope so 14:29:32 <KUDr_wrk> want to have it easy to do anything 14:30:02 <Celestar> good 14:30:33 <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: if you will see something you are not comfortable with, tell it immediately 14:30:45 <KUDr_wrk> it is in development 14:30:55 <KUDr_wrk> so no problem to change anything 14:31:20 <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: good 2 know 14:31:37 *** Diablo-D3 [i=diablo@pool-64-222-243-87.port.east.verizon.net] has quit ["do coders dream of sheep()?"] 14:32:38 <KUDr_wrk> another question: what about unit tests - i made subdir with some simple unit test program 14:33:12 <KUDr_wrk> but it works only under Windows now - I don't know how to do it on other platforms 14:33:29 <KUDr_wrk> should I commit it too? 14:34:19 *** e1ko [n=31k0@a02-0432c.kn.vutbr.cz] has joined #openttd 14:34:22 <Bjarni> what single unit test program? 14:34:37 <KUDr_wrk> yes 14:34:46 <Bjarni> heh 14:34:50 <KUDr_wrk> each container class is tested there separatelly 14:34:54 <Bjarni> yes is not really what I hoped to see :p 14:35:01 <KUDr_wrk> and later anything can be added 14:35:06 <KUDr_wrk> if it is isolated 14:35:12 <KUDr_wrk> and well designed 14:35:29 <Darkvater> KUDr_wrk: add it for windows and if someone else is interested they'll make it compile on their own os 14:35:30 <Bjarni> oh, you mean like a class test bench? 14:36:10 <zen--> hey 14:36:17 <KUDr_wrk> Bjarni: probably - we call it unit test - it can test also group of classes/module 14:36:19 <zen--> anyone know anything about openttd botwars? 14:36:35 <Bjarni> botwars? 14:36:39 <zen--> yes 14:36:45 <zen--> bot vs bot over network 14:36:56 <Bjarni> never heard of it 14:37:02 <KUDr_wrk> botwars - good idea - people can write their own AIs 14:37:12 <black_Nightmare> 'gathering intel' ??? 14:37:13 <zen--> xactly 14:37:16 <zen--> yea 14:37:21 <zen--> to know whom to ask what:D 14:37:48 <Darkvater> zen--: truelight and igor(2code) do that :) 14:37:59 <zen--> i noticed:) 14:38:07 <zen--> how often r they around? 14:38:27 <Darkvater> they're in #openttd.gpmi 14:38:35 <Darkvater> which I am pretty sure said before :) 14:38:37 <zen--> i am there too already:P 14:38:45 <Darkvater> but TrueLight is TL|Away 14:38:50 <Darkvater> I think he's away 14:39:15 <MiHaMiX> ok, have some time again :) 14:39:22 <MiHaMiX> workin' on WT2 14:39:34 <zen--> wt2? 14:39:44 <black_Nightmare> zen.....? 14:41:05 <zen--> jes? 14:41:21 <zen--> mihamix said hes working on wt2 14:41:25 <zen--> whats that 14:42:09 <Darkvater> WorldTour #2 14:42:12 <MiHaMiX> zen--: WebTranslator2 14:43:13 <Darkvater> he those brazilians 14:43:15 <Darkvater> The Brazilian is taking his country's flag and football 14:43:16 <Darkvater> jersey into space to give his team luck in the World Cup that 14:43:16 <Darkvater> starts in Germany on June 9, Associated Press reported, citing 14:43:16 <Darkvater> the astronaut. 14:44:37 <zen--> hm 14:44:37 <Celestar> lol 14:44:43 <zen--> is ttd threadsafe? 14:44:54 <zen--> :) 14:44:58 <zen--> i assume no? 14:45:10 <Celestar> the compression is threaded 14:45:19 <Celestar> (of savegames) 14:45:53 <zen--> how is the world map saved in memory 14:46:02 <Celestar> in a bit-coded wise 14:46:06 <zen--> can i access it in another thread? 14:46:15 <Celestar> read docs/landscape.html 14:46:44 <Darkvater> zen--: for reading sure :) 14:47:12 <zen--> and one fundamental question... if i manage to write smth similar to gpmi, will it be included in installer as an option? 14:47:25 <zen--> 'ala' zen-AI 14:47:25 <zen--> :D 14:48:03 <Darkvater> hmm 14:48:45 <Darkvater> I was hoping the AI part of gpmi could be used, so there is no need for something similar :) 14:49:20 <peter1138> can we merge that back at some point... 14:49:48 <Darkvater> we'll have to ask TL 14:49:56 <Darkvater> I think it's possible though 14:50:06 <zen--> i guess gmpi could use javascript support 14:50:15 <zen--> gpmi 14:50:19 <zen--> i keep saying it wrong 14:50:20 <zen--> :) 14:50:40 <Celestar> me too 14:50:48 <Celestar> doesn't gpmi have Javascript support? 14:50:58 <zen--> i saw php support 14:51:00 <zen--> :) 14:51:18 <zen--> i guess actually java and c# and c++ all could be supported 14:51:25 <zen--> its all about exporting the interface 14:51:41 <Jango> writing an AI in JS would be fun :/ 14:52:10 <zen--> why u say that 14:52:34 <peter1138> c# would be tricky... 14:52:39 <peter1138> and java 14:52:42 <Jango> well, not a big fan of JS 14:52:49 <zen--> i mean 14:52:52 <Jango> couldnt u use JNI peter1138? 14:52:58 * Celestar is a big fan of C. 14:53:01 <zen--> c# and java can use native c exports 14:53:02 <Celestar> good plain old C 14:53:18 <Jango> which version? :P 14:53:18 * Celestar doesn't like languages where he can't do memory management. 14:53:25 <Celestar> Jango: C99 is fine 14:53:36 <Jango> my C still sucks 14:53:41 <Darkvater> Celestar: amen 14:53:47 <Darkvater> I hate Java......... 14:53:55 <Darkvater> and hate it even more every day I have to use it 14:54:07 <Jango> it's always satisfying to see that some of my (small) patches are actually in openttd 14:54:09 <zen--> i use my c# to java compiler:D 14:54:16 <zen--> so i dont hate java that much now 14:54:16 <zen--> :D 14:54:26 <Matt-W> urgh Java 14:54:28 *** e1ko [n=31k0@a02-0432c.kn.vutbr.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:54:30 * Matt-W spits 14:54:54 <Jango> i don't like coding guis in Java 14:54:57 <Jango> i like OOP tho 14:55:14 <Jango> and it's more logical in Java than in C++ IMHO 14:55:28 <Celestar> I still think that C++ is kind of a monster 14:55:35 <zen--> java is good for plugins 14:55:37 <zen--> and thats it:) 14:56:05 <Matt-W> nah C++ is nice 14:56:08 <Matt-W> far from perfect of course 14:56:15 <Matt-W> but if you stay away from templates it's kind of nice 14:56:23 <Matt-W> shame it's not dependently typed, but you can't have everything 14:56:35 <Darkvater> Matt-W: and what's your progress? :) 14:56:51 <Matt-W> Darkvater: zilch, still writing this bloody book 14:56:54 <Jango> if you're mocking something up quickly in java, it's quite easy to do it fast cos of all the built in functions 14:57:15 <zen--> you are talking about the framework 14:57:21 <zen--> java has few builtin commands:) 14:57:21 <Darkvater> Matt-W: suggestion: stop writing book, especially if it's bloody. You can get in trouble for that 14:57:25 <Celestar> blathijs: are you anywhere near? 14:57:33 <Matt-W> Darkvater: book nearly done 14:57:47 <Jango> yeah, the standard api 14:57:57 <Matt-W> many languages have huge standard libraries 14:58:02 <Matt-W> including C++, actually :-) 14:58:43 <zen--> c++ could really use uptodate IDE's 14:58:49 <zen--> with full refactoring support 14:58:50 <zen--> and all 14:58:54 <zen--> even c 14:58:54 <Jango> can you get eclipse for C++? 14:59:12 <Matt-W> no idea, I don't get on well with IDEs 14:59:18 <zen--> like 14:59:21 <zen--> nowadays 14:59:25 <zen--> i like to extract methods 14:59:28 <Celestar> I like vim 14:59:29 <zen--> move classes 14:59:30 <zen--> etc 14:59:41 <zen--> vim doesnt show you the bigger picture:P 15:00:05 <Celestar> I've tried multiple IDEs 15:00:07 <Jango> if you know how to use an IDE, it's way quicker than using a standard text editor.... although vim isn't a standard text editor 15:00:12 <Celestar> nothing matches vim. 15:00:28 <Matt-W> hurrah for vim! 15:00:38 <Darkvater> Celestar: VS2003 beats vim with its hands tied behind its eh 'back' 15:00:44 <zen--> try vs2005 15:00:51 <Darkvater> nah, don't like it 15:00:54 <Darkvater> too bloated 15:00:55 <zen--> why 15:00:58 <Darkvater> at least for openttd that is 15:00:59 <zen--> hm 15:01:02 <Matt-W> has a huge disadvantage: runs on windows only 15:01:03 * MiHaMiX LOVES vim :) 15:01:06 <Matt-W> and is thus completely useless 15:01:09 <Celestar> Darkvater: what does VS2003 help me? 15:01:20 <Jango> how* 15:01:21 <Darkvater> that is for you to find out :) 15:01:21 <zen--> better intellisense 15:01:30 <zen--> and better class view 15:01:35 <Celestar> vim has all the autocomplete I need. 15:01:50 <Celestar> and, on windows, vim has Intellisense. 15:01:54 <zen--> includes your own defined types on the fly? 15:02:11 <Darkvater> it is very good on paper, just not for C 15:02:20 <Darkvater> eg stuff like refactor, code-snippets don't even work 15:02:23 <Celestar> well, on the fly, you needa update your ctags 15:02:29 <zen--> you see 15:02:35 <zen--> vs05 has it on the fly:) 15:02:37 <Darkvater> so all I got from vs2005 is 1.5GB of wasted HD space 15:02:45 <Celestar> plus VS is only available for Terrorist-OS. 15:03:00 <zen--> as long as the job gets done, i wont care:) 15:03:51 <zen--> then again 15:03:55 <zen--> scite is cool also 15:03:58 <Matt-W> I have never been able to be seriously productive on Windows 15:04:00 <zen--> for lightweight 15:04:01 <Celestar> nah I don't support anything or anyone supporting Terrorism or State-Terrorism. 15:04:07 <Celestar> Matt-W: neither have I. 15:04:10 <Matt-W> It simply doesn't behave 15:04:47 <Celestar> and I rather have people around me wanting to blow me up than people around me wanting to control and spy on me. 15:05:25 <Celestar> => Microsoft is worse than Ossama. 15:05:42 <Celestar> so I won't touch any of their products with a 10 foot rusty pole 15:05:51 <zen--> good for you:) 15:06:20 * Matt-W only has Windows to play games on 15:06:37 <Matt-W> might not even have that one day 15:06:55 <CIA-5> celestar * r4179 /trunk/ (town_cmd.c town_map.h): -Codechange: Add and make use of an accessor that obtains the building type 15:07:58 <Darkvater> 17:05 < Celestar> => Microsoft is worse than Ossama. <-- compile error C4093 Incompatible types 15:08:14 <Jango> Darkvater: you spent 3 minutes dreaming that one up? :P 15:08:36 <Matt-W> also, spelling mistake 15:09:02 <Darkvater> Jango: got a bit distracted with work :P 15:09:03 <Celestar> Darkvater: ? 15:09:11 <Celestar> I don't get the joke 15:09:11 <Jango> any excuse 15:09:12 <Celestar> :P 15:09:22 <Darkvater> one is person other is corporation 15:09:26 <Darkvater> ncm 15:09:27 <Darkvater> nvm 15:09:29 <Celestar> ok 15:09:44 <Celestar> Microsoft.badness > Ossama.badness. 15:09:46 <Jango> it's ok Darkvater, he's german :P 15:10:25 <zen--> i think you should not discuss platform likness or dislikeness in this channel 15:10:27 <Celestar> Darkvater: plus in German low corporations are (mostly) treated like people. 15:10:50 <Celestar> zen--: it IS part of the ongoing "when do we drop windows support" discussion ;) 15:11:11 <zen--> there is such a discussion?:D 15:11:25 <Celestar> always ;) 15:11:27 <zen--> do you know the stats of users? 15:11:45 <zen--> openttd should report user OS:) 15:12:10 <Celestar> at least we should drop MSCC6 support :P 15:12:17 *** mgla [n=mgla@wikipedia/mgla] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:12:36 <zen--> no support should be dropped:) 15:12:42 <zen--> if its there, it stais 15:13:26 *** WolfLaptop [n=wolf@213.196.14.254] has quit ["( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 3.81 :: www.XLhost.de )"] 15:14:39 <Celestar> grep -o -h "\(\.m[1-5]\|map5\|SetTileType\|ModifyTile\)" *.c */*.c | sort | uniq -c 15:15:00 <Celestar> if you tell me how to do such a thing in MSVC, I MIGHT consider having a look at in within the next decade 15:15:02 <zen--> what was that 15:15:23 <Darkvater> Celestar: visual studio has regular-expression search 15:15:40 <Celestar> Darkvater: with "sort" and "uniq" and all the other options? 15:15:45 <Darkvater> zen--: MSVC6 is a bitch though. There are numerous workarounds just to get that to work 15:15:53 <Jango> if you use a IDE on linux, there's nothing to stop you from having an xterm for your greps 15:15:57 <Darkvater> Celestar: you can sort clicking on the tabs 15:16:05 <Darkvater> not sure about unique 15:16:31 <zen--> never said v6 was ok 15:16:32 <zen--> :) 15:16:38 <zen--> talking about 2005:) 15:16:51 <zen--> earlier r not that good 15:16:59 <Celestar> 2005 is bad too. 15:17:08 <zen--> resx wise yes 15:17:13 <zen--> it gets my laptop too warm:) 15:17:15 <Celestar> can I run that on some 300MHz computer? 15:18:18 *** TL|Away is now known as TrueLight 15:18:18 <Celestar> methinks an IDE that needs a state-of-the-art computer to work properly is idiotic. it seduces people to write equally resource-consuming code. 15:18:34 *** Scia [n=scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 15:18:47 <Celestar> and what's the result? Windows Vista. 15:18:53 <zen--> there should be a resx monitor 15:18:59 <Celestar> 2GB RAM recommended to run an OS. 15:19:03 <zen--> that says how much you are using in your program 15:19:08 <zen--> and how much you should use 15:19:39 <Celestar> I'm sure Civilization IV was coded in VS 2005. 15:19:41 <SimonRC> aha! 15:19:49 <SimonRC> I have found a crash bug. 15:19:52 <Celestar> a game that will crash if you have < 2GB memory installed. 15:20:09 <zen--> i do like the lightweightness of openttd 15:20:32 <Celestar> that how I like my OSes. 15:20:36 * Vornicus thinks that using an IDE that can take advantage of the resources of a state-of-the-art computer and make the programmer smarter is a good thing, but VS2005 does not do this well. 15:20:39 <SimonRC> (Yeah, I can start up a game in about 1sec.) 15:20:40 <Celestar> and my servers. 15:20:42 *** e1ko [n=31k0@a02-0432c.kn.vutbr.cz] has joined #openttd 15:21:02 <Vornicus> Civilization 4 was written in Python, and early versions of it had no optimizations at all. 15:21:07 <Celestar> like a Sun Fire T1000 Server: it doesn't even have a VGA code. 15:21:19 <Celestar> Vornicus: later version were only slightly better. 15:21:26 <SimonRC> Is there a way to submit my crash report if the "Submit Report" bug is greyed out? 15:21:39 <Celestar> Vornicus: don't get me wrong, it a great game, but the coding sucks. 15:21:47 <Vornicus> Simon: to submit a bug report through Flyspray you must log in. 15:21:56 <Darkvater> SimonRC: there is nowhere to send 15:22:57 <SimonRC> ah 15:23:12 <Celestar> Vornicus: I want an IDE that I can use on my laptop without draining my battery in < 2 hours. 15:23:27 <SimonRC> I could paste it here :-) 15:23:35 <Celestar> ^^ 15:23:37 <Celestar> use a pastebin 15:23:38 <Celestar> :P 15:23:48 <Vornicus> and I want an IDE that I can use on my desktop which analyses and reports on my code as I'm typing it. 15:23:49 <SimonRC> I could describe it 15:24:04 <SpComb> Vornicus: "That line of code sucks ass bigtime?" 15:24:33 <Celestar> analyses? 15:24:44 <zen--> hehe 15:24:46 <Celestar> 90% of errors are logic errors, if not more. no IDE will analyse that. 15:24:51 <zen--> there is a FxCop 15:24:53 <zen--> :P 15:24:53 <SimonRC> I have an engine that is in two bits (at each end of the train). When I try to drag one or more carridges from that train to another train (also 2-part engine but no carriges), the game crashes. 15:25:01 <zen--> FxCop will do that btw 15:25:07 <zen--> google 4 it 15:25:09 <SpComb> Celestar: some IDE could! 15:25:11 <Celestar> SimonRC: give me savegame and give train number. 15:25:21 <SimonRC> ok 15:27:20 <Vornicus> I want an IDE that will read flowcharts I've written in Visio and generate code from it. That will, as I finish writing a method, will stub out every method I called that it doesn't recognize, and add writing those methods to my task list. 15:27:40 <Celestar> urgh 15:27:45 <zen--> you are talking about classdesigner of vs2005.P 15:28:09 <Celestar> I don't want any automatic code generator. 15:28:39 <Celestar> I hate all the automatic stuff VB.NET did. 15:28:50 <Jango> why? you can program them to generate the code that you want.... saves typing it out each time 15:28:55 <zen--> have a look at this 15:28:55 <zen--> http://zproxy.zapto.org/ScriptCoreLib.dll.js 15:29:00 <zen--> this is javascript 15:29:06 <zen--> and its compiled from c# assambly 15:29:26 <Celestar> if I type "foo" I want "foo" on screen. 15:29:35 <Celestar> if I want something else, I type something else. 15:30:04 <zen--> but 15:30:07 <zen--> if you wanjt 15:30:15 <SimonRC> If you don't mind compilers, then you shouldn't mind automatic code generators, as long as you treat them *the same way*. 15:30:23 <zen--> want delegates, events, properties, async iterators, and crossthreading 15:30:25 <SimonRC> Also, templates to work from are good 15:30:50 <Celestar> nah I'm a low level working 15:30:58 <zen--> asm is lowlvel 15:31:00 <Celestar> I spend lots of time on machines that don't even have a GUI 15:31:13 <zen--> a console interface is a gui actually 15:31:15 <Vornicus> If I type "foo" on the screen, I want foo on the screen, and I want it to color the background of "foo" according to its location in the program and its data type. I want to be able to right-click foo and have the computer tell me exactly what scope it has, show me the declaration, and give me links to every pplace it is modified. 15:31:42 <Celestar> Vornicus: some of the stuff can be made in vim 15:31:48 <SimonRC> So, generated code would not be put in the VCS, and should not be editted, and should probably not be looked at. 15:32:12 <SimonRC> In fact, that is the traditional usage of (e.g.) lex/yacc/bison output. 15:32:20 * Celestar shudders from all point-and-click interfaces 15:32:21 <zen--> no 15:32:32 <zen--> the actual source will be put in svn 15:32:36 <zen--> and the tool will also 15:32:37 <zen--> :D 15:32:48 *** mcsmurf [n=chatzill@p549350D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:32:48 <SimonRC> Erm, not quite what I meant. 15:32:52 <zen--> any web2 devs here? 15:33:13 <mcsmurf> web2 devs? o_O 15:33:19 <zen--> yea 15:33:28 <zen--> the guys that write javascript apps on web:) 15:33:32 <mcsmurf> i would say..no :p 15:33:37 <mcsmurf> (whatever is web2 for you ;-) 15:33:46 <zen--> never read digg.com? 15:33:47 <zen--> :) 15:33:54 <zen--> latest hype 15:33:54 <zen--> :D 15:33:58 <mcsmurf> no...what is it for :P 15:34:01 <Celestar> Javascript != Prgramming language ;) 15:34:06 <SimonRC> darnit, waht is diff called in windows? 15:34:06 <zen--> scripting language 15:34:09 <mcsmurf> and Javascript has existed for like 10 years 15:34:11 <zen--> windiff 15:34:14 <zen--> yes 15:34:23 <zen--> but the latest version is already quite good 15:34:27 <mcsmurf> web2 is just another buzzword ;-) 15:34:30 <zen--> jes 15:34:34 <SpComb> javascipt == the language you do authentication and dynamic CSS in 15:34:36 <zen--> i like javascript better 15:34:42 <mcsmurf> whatever i was here because of a different thing... 15:34:51 <XeryusTC> SpComb: you do authentication in php... 15:34:56 <SpComb> nah 15:34:58 <SpComb> that's lame 15:34:58 <zen--> javascript is for emulationg controls which std html doesnt have 15:35:04 <zen--> like draggable listboxes n such 15:35:09 <XeryusTC> it's called security 15:35:12 <mcsmurf> is it by design that normal trains cannot turn around in a normal station when the layout is like 15:35:16 <mcsmurf> A===B====C 15:35:18 *** XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|food 15:35:21 <mcsmurf> my train goes from A to B 15:35:26 <mcsmurf> and then should go from B to A again 15:35:28 <SpComb> every real developer does auth in javascript. Once you do that you move the database layer to javascript... 15:35:43 <mcsmurf> without the C station it works fine, but now it wants to drive to station C ;) 15:35:49 <SpComb> sql.php?query=SELECT+*+FROM+foo 15:35:49 <Vornicus> mcsmurf: there's a setting for that. 15:35:51 <mcsmurf> also it's supposed to go to station A again 15:35:52 <Celestar> Vornicus: and what IDE shows you ALL positions where "foo" is modified? 15:36:02 <Vornicus> None that I'm aware of. 15:36:06 <zen--> vs005 can search for referenced symbol 15:36:06 <mcsmurf> Vornicus, /me looks 15:36:18 <Vornicus> I'll see if I can find it. 15:36:26 <peter1138> it's a game difficulty option 15:36:28 <zen--> so you can see a list of all positions in code, where it is chnged 15:36:32 <Vornicus> Celestar, has the rewrite of the slotter code been committed to trunk? 15:36:49 <Celestar> Vornicus: not yet. 15:36:53 <peter1138> why not? 15:36:53 <Celestar> I need someone to proof-read it 15:36:56 <peter1138> :) 15:37:24 <SimonRC> okay: buggy game here: http://129.234.200.100/~sc/crash.sav 15:37:35 <Celestar> I'm always reluctant to commit stuff that bumps savegame revisions 15:37:46 <Vornicus> mcsmurf: third from the bottom in "difficulty options", it's called "train reversing". There's two choices: at end of line, and at end of line and at stations. 15:37:49 <SimonRC> I have trouble transfering carrages from T23 to T24 15:38:01 <Vornicus> In order to turn around at a station, the second of these has to be true. 15:38:05 <mcsmurf> ah i see 15:38:18 <SimonRC> unless the station is EOL, too 15:38:19 <Celestar> me takes a note to change this option. 15:38:29 *** Aankhen`` [n=pockled@203.101.11.85] has joined #openttd 15:38:41 <Vornicus> celestar: what does proofreading entail? 15:38:44 <mcsmurf> well i play in the Difficult mode ;) (whatever this is in the English version of the game) 15:38:52 <mcsmurf> is it different in the Easy mode? 15:39:04 <mcsmurf> (by default) 15:39:07 <Vornicus> yes 15:39:42 <Celestar> Vornicus: reading through each line of the diff and understanding what it does, comparing it with what it did (Before the diff) and making sure nothing break.s 15:40:06 <Vornicus> On easy (but not medium) trains can reverse at stations that are not end-of-line 15:40:27 <Celestar> er WHAT? 15:40:35 <zen--> hehe 15:40:37 <Celestar> the game crashes without me doing anything. 15:40:58 <SimonRC> Celestar: what, my game? 15:41:00 * Vornicus actually puts all this in a table. 15:41:02 <Celestar> yah 15:41:13 <zen--> the 4.7 has also a bug, if you rezise window to a small one... in some circumstances it crashed 15:41:23 <zen--> the win32 window 15:41:30 <SimonRC> I am on 0.4.7 on windows 15:41:44 <zen--> but 15:41:47 <SimonRC> Celestar: something must have got corrupted. 15:41:55 <Celestar> SimonRC: nope 15:42:02 <Celestar> there is a bug it seems. 15:42:03 <zen--> we can always rejoin:) 15:42:09 * Vornicus reads the difficulty options page on the wiki. 15:42:26 <SimonRC> Celestar: you have a game-corruption-tester? 15:42:43 <Celestar> SimonRC: nope, what platform are you on? 15:43:04 <SimonRC> Win32 15:43:08 <SimonRC> erm 15:43:47 <SimonRC> XP 15:43:56 <SimonRC> windows 5.1.2600 15:44:32 <Vornicus> Can you even have AI competitors in a multiplayer game? 15:46:21 <Celestar> SimonRC: I can drag wagons just fine? 15:46:57 *** AciD [n=gni@unaffiliated/acid] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:47:21 <CIA-5> celestar * r4180 /trunk/elrail.c: -Fix: Fixed an assert in the elrail drawing code due to passing of a wrong variable. I wish the compiler would warn about different enum types used... 15:48:49 <Jango> didn't elrail ought to be a patch option, for all those ppl who might not want the distinction of normal and elrail? 15:49:02 <Celestar> Jango: "we" have decided against that. 15:49:02 <SimonRC> Celestar: hmm, dunno then 15:49:04 <Jango> ok 15:49:07 <Celestar> SimonRC: what version? 15:49:12 <SimonRC> 0.4.7 15:49:14 <Celestar> 0.4.7? 15:49:19 * Celestar goes building 0.4.7 15:49:26 <Jango> so, this is one of the first (if not THE first) major gameplay alteration? 15:49:29 <black_Nightmare> one question .... 15:50:17 <Vornicus> Jango: there was PBS. 15:50:32 <Celestar> SimonRC: what EXACTLY are you doing to crash? 15:50:36 <Celestar> I have train 23 and train 24. 15:50:48 <Jango> but PBS wasn't compulsory 15:50:54 <Vornicus> well, no, it wasn't. 15:50:58 <Jango> this is 15:51:02 <black_Nightmare> when I send a 2-engines train (eg number 1) to depot then drag the second engine to a second slot (making it a seperate train) then try drag -any- cars (either from first train or from the build list) to the second train it would not go at all 15:51:13 <black_Nightmare> I have to delete the second engine and create it from the build list to be able to add any cars 15:51:20 <Jango> much as i like it. 15:52:40 <peter1138> Jango: what kind of english is "didn't foo ought" ? 15:52:56 <Celestar> lol 15:53:01 *** DebolazX [n=DebolazX@office.nsn.no] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:53:04 <Celestar> black_Nightmare: ? 15:53:08 <Celestar> I can drag around engines just fine. 15:53:20 <Celestar> er 15:53:22 <Celestar> wagons too 15:53:39 <black_Nightmare> celestar....did you try send a 2-engines train to depot then move the second engine to a seperate slot? 15:54:09 <Celestar> no 15:54:10 <Celestar> wait 15:54:45 <black_Nightmare> ok 15:54:50 <Celestar> you cannot disconnect a dual-head train 15:55:09 <black_Nightmare> no ... it was two single engines and I'm sure of that :-> 15:55:16 <peter1138> i can't replicate 15:55:25 <Celestar> we ARE talking about the game SimonRC sent me? 15:55:42 <SimonRC> I am 15:55:47 <SimonRC> okaaaay... 15:56:00 <SimonRC> click the deopt that has trains 23 and 24 in it 15:56:02 <black_Nightmare> hm....oh well...I don't run much dual engines so may as well as accept deleting the second engine before making a seperate train 15:56:07 <black_Nightmare> ty 15:56:08 <Celestar> DONE 15:56:10 <SimonRC> (next to hug city) 15:56:22 <Celestar> I'm not hugging the city, but ok. 15:56:23 *** DebolazX [n=DebolazX@office.nsn.no] has joined #openttd 15:56:32 * Vornicus hugs the city. 15:56:34 <Celestar> depot open. 15:56:52 <Celestar> now? 15:57:03 * SpComb a'splodes the depo 15:57:05 <SimonRC> then scroll sideways in depot window a few cars, ans drag the first pasenger carrige in the secon blok of passenger carriges to the other train 15:57:11 <SimonRC> (23 -> 24, IIRC) 15:57:28 <Celestar> BOOM 15:57:29 <Celestar> thanks. 15:57:43 <SimonRC> ok, good that you can reproduce it 15:57:49 <Celestar> THAT was a bug report with clear instructions 15:58:03 <SimonRC> as, sorry about before, then 15:58:07 <Celestar> bp 15:58:08 <Celestar> np 15:58:33 * SimonRC has been continuing from an autosave. 15:58:45 <Celestar> 518 while (skip--) v = v->next; 15:58:45 <Celestar> (gdb) p v 15:58:46 <Celestar> = (Vehicle *) 0x0 15:58:49 <Celestar> bad. 15:58:54 <Celestar> very bad 15:59:12 <peter1138> i think i can guess 15:59:24 <black_Nightmare> heh glad I wasn't alone anyway 15:59:24 <Celestar> you can? 15:59:34 <peter1138> yeah 15:59:38 <peter1138> i can replicate 15:59:55 <Celestar> I can replicate too 16:00:01 <Celestar> I dunno why it crashes yet 16:00:17 <peter1138> well, maybe this is a different issue 16:00:24 <peter1138> but i tested it with a long train and a short train 16:00:30 <Celestar> it crashes when the destination train is NOT visible 16:00:32 <peter1138> if the short train is scrolled off... boom 16:00:35 <peter1138> yes 16:00:43 <peter1138> that's easy to fix 16:01:05 <Celestar> fix it then :) 16:02:16 <Celestar> ah 16:02:18 <peter1138> fortunately it's gui code 16:02:24 <Celestar> so? 16:02:26 <peter1138> so it won't crash network servers 16:02:34 <Celestar> right 16:02:42 <Celestar> unless they are non-dedicated :P 16:02:50 <peter1138> eh, true :P 16:03:38 <Celestar> SimonRC: thanks for that report. 16:04:39 <peter1138> http://195.112.37.102/ottd/depotcrash.diff << testers :) 16:05:50 *** SchAmane [n=schamane@p5498CD6A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:06:04 *** Zr40_ [n=Zirconiu@cl-1124.ams-04.nl.sixxs.net] has joined #openttd 16:07:02 *** znikoz2 [n=1@193.227.251.17] has joined #openttd 16:07:27 *** Zr40 [n=Zirconiu@cl-1124.ams-04.nl.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:07:31 *** SchAmane [n=schamane@p5498D1C2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:07:35 <Celestar> peter1138: it appears to work 16:08:53 <Jango> how easy is it to electrify existing track? 16:08:59 <Jango> do you have to bulldoze? 16:09:23 <Celestar> you can convert. 16:09:36 <peter1138> same as any other convert, heh 16:09:39 <Celestar> autoconvert will be commited early next week, when current problems have been irond out. 16:09:42 <Celestar> +e 16:10:03 <Jango> ah yes, i'd forgotten about the convert button 16:10:07 <Jango> good stuff 16:10:36 *** black_Nightmare [n=Husky_dr@modemcable254.254-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd ["bye"] 16:10:37 <Celestar> it is finished, but I don't want yet to commit it, because it sits too deeply in the Command code. want to test more first. 16:11:21 <Jango> how is auto-convert different to using the button? 16:11:26 <Jango> is it the cheat version? 16:11:48 <Celestar> no, when dragging elrail over convrail it get convert automagically 16:12:02 <Celestar> so you can easily create crossings without fucking with the toolbar all the time 16:12:21 <Celestar> sometimes, wikipedia is funny: 16:12:26 <Jango> ah yeah, that would be useful 16:12:26 <Celestar> "8128 is the natural number following 8127 and preceding 8129." 16:13:58 <Celestar> ok I gotta go. 16:14:53 *** mcsmurf [n=chatzill@p549350D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.72 [SeaMonkey 1.5a/0000000000]"] 16:20:35 *** Jango [n=Jango@mettab.demon.co.uk] has quit ["Using KVIrc 3.0.1 'System Virtue'"] 16:21:14 <peter1138> any other testers of that patch? 16:23:24 <Vornicus> not I; I am doing something else. 16:23:53 <peter1138> so am i 16:25:05 <Vornicus> (specifically I am going through the list of difficulty options and describing what they do, the available settings, and what the various default groups set them to) 16:31:25 *** Xeryus|food is now known as XeryusTC 16:34:37 *** Mukke [n=Mukke@x1-6-00-02-1e-f6-09-41.k607.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 16:38:13 *** Stumo [i=stjm2@student.cusu.cam.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 16:41:39 <zen--> what about disasters in multiplayer 16:41:48 <peter1138> what about them? 16:42:30 <zen--> are they currently supported? 16:42:46 *** ^Cartman^ [n=Eric_Car@ti100710a081-6310.bb.online.no] has quit ["Que?"] 16:46:01 <peter1138> yes... why wouldn't they be? 16:51:27 <SimonRC> hmm 16:51:39 <SimonRC> Any clues on how to upgrade an airport? 16:51:55 <SimonRC> I can't keep the planes off it. 16:52:52 <Vornicus> Depot every plane that heads to that airport at a different airport. 16:58:00 *** stavrosg [n=stavrosg@athedsl-16067.otenet.gr] has joined #OpenTTD 17:00:33 <Vornicus> then destroy and buy up enough land for your new airport, with the original in the middle somewhere, and then quickly destroy the old airport and build the new one. 17:05:16 * SimonRC goes 17:05:32 <Stumo> Maybe we should have a "close airport" option, that means that planes cannot land 17:05:38 <Stumo> allows easier upgrading 17:08:33 <Maedhros> is it possible to remove roads in cities where both ends are junctions? with TTO it used to be possible by buiding railways over straight bits, but that seems to have been removed now ;) 17:08:34 <Vornicus> I was thinking along those lines myself. What would planes headed to that airport do then? What happens to planes that have already landed? 17:09:10 <Maedhros> maybe closing the airport would mean no new planes would land, they could just circle round until you reopen it? 17:09:38 <Maedhros> but planes that have already landed could take off again 17:10:02 <Vornicus> Meadhros: I believe the metric used to determine if a road can be removed is a pathfinder metric: after this road is removed, can you still get everywhere in the city by road? 17:10:39 *** Qrrbrbirlbel [n=Qrr@p54A7F64B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:11:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> Maedhros: it is possible to remove town roads, depending on the town's rating 17:11:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> the rail thing will not work anymore ;) 17:12:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> as the road's owner is still stored 17:12:42 *** Prof_Frink [n=proffrin@cpc2-shep3-0-0-cust550.leic.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 17:13:00 *** znikoz2 [n=1@193.227.251.17] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:13:07 <Maedhros> hmm... i've got a rating of Outstanding, but I can only delete roads from a free end, working backwards... 17:13:55 *** Tron_ is now known as Tron 17:14:09 <Vornicus> Right. In order to destroy roads you must keep the entire town otherwise intact; you cannot split towns. 17:15:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> that is definitely not true... 17:17:25 <Vornicus> it's not? I have never been able to split a town. 17:18:40 <Maedhros> heh, i don't really want to split a town, just (for example) delete the loop of road in this screenshot: 17:18:43 <Maedhros> http://dev.gentoo.org/~maedhros/images/road.png 17:18:48 *** sw4y [n=sw4y@snat2.arachne.czfree.net] has joined #openttd 17:19:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/ottd.jpg 17:19:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> you might have to enable some patch option first 17:19:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't remember 17:20:48 *** glx|away is now known as glx 17:20:51 <Maedhros> ah, looks like i need to "Enable removal of more town-owned roads, bridges etc." then 17:20:55 <Maedhros> thanks :) 17:21:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, that would probably be it ;) 17:26:24 *** Scia [n=scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:31:17 *** Angst [n=Angst@p54945C82.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:36:56 *** RichK67 [n=RichK67@194.164.100.143] has joined #openttd 17:50:59 *** orudge|uni [n=orudge@res05-ocr2.res.st-and.ac.uk] has quit ["reboot"] 17:53:56 *** DJ_Mirage [n=djmirage@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:03:44 *** AciD [n=gni@tehpwnz.org] has joined #openttd 18:05:57 *** DarkSSH [n=plop@5354EC24.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 18:06:00 *** mode/#openttd [+o DarkSSH] by ChanServ 18:06:07 <DarkSSH> my god, that eios_os sure has some weird quirks 18:06:16 <DarkSSH> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=421328#421328 18:06:29 <DarkSSH> donnu what has gotten into him 18:06:40 <DarkSSH> hmm, who is Darkvater? 18:08:19 <Vornicus> the topic or post I have requested does not exist. 18:08:27 *** Darkvater [n=plop@5354EC24.cable.casema.nl] has quit ["leaving"] 18:08:34 <DarkSSH> there 18:08:44 *** DarkSSH is now known as Darkvater 18:08:59 <Darkvater> Vornicus: it's there 18:09:22 <Vornicus> could have fooled me. 18:09:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> is that normal that the page requests me to log in? 18:10:38 *** orudge [n=orudge@res05-ocr2.res.st-and.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 18:10:51 <Darkvater> oh wait 18:10:54 <Darkvater> it's in spambin 18:10:54 <Darkvater> he 18:11:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> that would explain things ;) 18:11:47 <Vornicus> heh 18:11:59 <Darkvater> in short: eis_os is very very paranoid and has put a 'license dongle' into this grf file so it only works after you have read the 'license' and 'agreed' to it 18:12:00 * zen-- gtg 18:12:14 <Darkvater> DaleStan is brilliant though :D 18:12:25 <Darkvater> "Now what you really need to do is get your server to serve up a dynamic GRF/Readme with a randomly selected key, so that no two people will have the same key." 18:13:00 <Vornicus> how on earth is he making this dongle work? 18:13:32 <Darkvater> it's just a parameter passed to the grf file 18:13:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> who on earth reads license agreements anyway? ;) 18:13:43 <Vornicus> uh-huh. 18:13:43 <DaleStan> He checks for an appropriate parameter (bridgew.grf <dongle>) 18:14:51 <TrueLight> Eddi|zuHause2: if you read it or not is not important. If you press, I Agree, the owner can safely assume you read it.. if you didn't it is your problem. Else he can't sue you, because you just say: I never read the license! Now he says: but then why did you agree? The legal system is one strange bitch.... 18:14:56 <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause2> who on earth reads license agreements anyway? ;) <-- I do, but I have to say, not each time. Usually it's the same novel of a whole lot of conditions that most people will never reach and that you can't pirate the software 18:15:06 <TrueLight> the reason most applications even forse you to scroll-down 18:15:12 <Bjarni> don't pirate this software <-- they can make that last several pages 18:15:16 <Darkvater> I don't want to badmouth anyone, especially when he's not around, but Oskar is behaving really weirdly 18:15:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> "that you can't pirate the software" <- see, you violate it anyway, so why bother ;) 18:15:52 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause2: we are not all like you ;) 18:16:04 <Bjarni> Darkvater: what did Oskar say this time? 18:16:11 <Bjarni> besides didn't he retire? 18:16:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> i said "you", not "i" ;) 18:16:17 <Darkvater> Bjarni: @link 18:16:48 <Darkvater> OMG 18:17:00 <Darkvater> http://tweakers.net/meuktracker/12230 18:17:08 <Darkvater> \o/ they put OpenTTD on tweakers :) 18:19:29 <Bjarni> nice 18:19:44 <Bjarni> now we all wonder who this "Darkvater" is, who wrote it 18:19:46 <Bjarni> ;) 18:20:48 <Darkvater> hehe 18:21:08 <Darkvater> well I got a complaint about these twekaers.net nazi's that they refused to put openttd in there a few times before 18:21:11 <Darkvater> so I tried 18:21:17 <Darkvater> it seems I've got more 'power' :) 18:23:15 <Bjarni> about the C++ thing. TrueLight said a bit cryptic message about it. The crosscompiler supports it for most platforms, yet he would not advice to use it anyway 18:23:36 *** Qrrbrbirlbel [n=Qrr@p54A7F64B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:24:20 <TrueLight> Bjarni: no, I said adding C++ to OpenTTD is a bad idea: mixed applications are a bitch 18:24:23 <TrueLight> or 100% C or 100% C++ 18:24:25 <TrueLight> but mixed sucks ass 18:24:30 <Bjarni> ahh, like that 18:25:06 <Bjarni> btw, what about "most" platforms: which platforms will fail on C++? 18:25:16 <Bjarni> most indicates that one or two could fail 18:27:03 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-48-88.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:27:27 <Brianetta> make: --cflags: Command not found 18:27:29 <Brianetta> make: --libs: Command not found 18:27:31 <Brianetta> Any suggestions? 18:27:48 <Darkvater> Brianetta: delete makefile.config 18:28:16 <Brianetta> You mean Makefile.config? 18:28:26 <Darkvater> yes 18:29:36 <Brianetta> SDL? My dedicated server compiled right off the svn up 18:31:09 <Darkvater> <-- out 18:31:11 *** Darkvater [n=plop@5354EC24.cable.casema.nl] has quit ["leaving"] 18:31:18 *** zen-- [n=zen@mindware.ee] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:36:04 <TrueLight> Brianetta: that happens if sdl-config isn't found 18:36:08 <TrueLight> Makefile depends on it :( 18:37:27 <Brianetta> Can't the Makefile test for it? 18:38:24 <Bjarni> it does some tests, but somehow it fails for you 18:38:28 <Bjarni> I wonder why 18:38:50 <Bjarni> TrueLight: <Bjarni> btw, what about "most" platforms: which platforms will fail on C++? 18:39:40 <TrueLight> Bjarni: some targets are untested 18:39:46 <TrueLight> I believe all of them do have a g++ 18:39:49 <TrueLight> but that doesn't mean anything 18:43:04 <Bjarni> hmm 18:43:50 <Bjarni> maybe we should add some C++ code to see if all targets makes a valid nightly build. If it fails, we can revert 18:44:02 <Bjarni> that would be the easiest solution 18:45:04 <Tron> TrueLight: some change to the Makefile recently makes it break 18:45:05 <KUDr> Bjarni: what about newgrf from peter1138? Is it not there? 18:45:50 <TrueLight> Tron: makes what break, sorry? 18:45:59 <Tron> TrueLight: the problem Brianetta has 18:46:10 <Bjarni> KUDr: the difference between you and some other people are that you wrote it in public.... 18:46:33 <TrueLight> Tron: it has been there for ages 18:46:36 <Tron> suddenly Makefile.config has the line SDL-CONFIG:= 18:46:39 <TrueLight> you _need_ sdlconfig, or a fake one 18:46:59 <KUDr> Bjarni: public? don't understand 18:47:10 <TrueLight> Tron: dunno about that 18:47:15 <Bjarni> public = not in a private message 18:47:20 <Tron> TrueLight: i _know_ it suddenly breaks, for some reason a recent change to the Makefile makes it rewrite Makefile.config and SDL-CONFIG gets set to nothing 18:47:32 <Tron> it was Bjarni's change 18:47:35 <TrueLight> Tron: but sdl-config being nothing 18:47:39 <TrueLight> shouldn't report those problems 18:47:42 <TrueLight> but that it is doing for ages 18:47:48 <Tron> ok, nothing was the wrong word 18:47:51 <Tron> empty 18:47:53 *** Aankhen`` [n=pockled@203.101.11.85] has quit ["Sleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep [Time wasted online: 3hrs 9mins 33secs]"] 18:47:55 <Tron> that's the correct 18:47:56 <TrueLight> it should check that it is empty and handle it a bit more..... descrite :) 18:47:56 <Tron> one 18:47:56 <Bjarni> <Tron> it was Bjarni's change <-- which you reverted like 3 revisions later 18:48:04 <Tron> Bjarni: not THIS change 18:48:09 <Bjarni> hmm 18:48:11 <Tron> Bjarni: you later made another 18:48:24 <Bjarni> I didn't know that 18:48:24 <Tron> TrueLight: empty var != undefined var 18:48:31 <TrueLight> Tron: my point here is, if I make SDL-CONFIG empty myself, it shouldn't report those errors, but be a bit better in error-reporting 18:48:46 <TrueLight> of course it should be fixed that SDL-CONFIG is empty if SDL is present 18:48:57 <Tron> huh? 18:48:58 <TrueLight> but currently Makefile depends very hard on SDL :) 18:49:07 <Tron> sentence makes no sense 18:49:11 <TrueLight> some expections btw 18:49:23 <TrueLight> Tron: 18:49:26 <TrueLight> I edit Makefile.config 18:49:28 <TrueLight> make SDL-CONFIG empty 18:49:30 <TrueLight> I run mka 18:49:36 <TrueLight> eI get weird errors are Brianetta pointed out 18:49:39 <TrueLight> should not happen 18:49:42 <TrueLight> should report better errors 18:49:45 <TrueLight> SDL-CONFIG being empty 18:49:49 <TrueLight> make sense now it does? :) 18:49:50 <Tron> TrueLight: the point is: Brianetta didn't edit Makefile.config 18:49:58 <Tron> his Makefile.config was perfectly fine before 18:49:59 <TrueLight> No, that is the second problem :) 18:50:11 <TrueLight> I don't say which one is more important :) 18:50:19 <Tron> the change Makefile makes it rewrite Makefile.config 18:50:22 <Tron> and it does it wrong 18:50:39 <Bjarni> hmm 18:50:53 <Tron> and the problem you're pointing out is basic foot shooting 18:50:57 <Bjarni> it should update it to assign SDL-CONFIG to SDL-CONFIG 18:51:29 <Tron> if i tell it to shoot itself in the foot, it should exactly do that 18:52:17 <Bjarni> $(call CONFIG_LINE,SDL-CONFIG:=$(SDL-CONFIG)) <-- this appears to be ok 18:52:24 <Tron> but just running make and suddenly the config file gets rewritten wrong is _not_ footshooting, it's just a bug 18:53:00 <Bjarni> makefile.libdetection should not do this anymore 18:53:13 <Tron> Bjarni: the problem exists, i have it with every single checkout i have. It breaks Makefile.config, i have to edit it and readd sdl11-config, then it works 18:53:26 <Bjarni> hmm 18:53:41 <Bjarni> you mean it deletes SDL-CONFIG? 18:53:55 <Bjarni> and makes a blank line? 18:54:02 <Tron> it alters 18:54:10 <Tron> SDL-CONFIG:=sdl11-config 18:54:11 <Tron> to 18:54:14 <Tron> SDL-CONFIG:= 18:54:27 <TrueLight> if the makefile-version is outdated 18:54:28 <Tron> and yes, sdl11-config is perfectly correct for FreeBSD 18:54:33 <TrueLight> it recreates Makefile.config 18:54:35 <TrueLight> which can break things 18:54:38 <TrueLight> Tron: use ./configure 18:54:40 <TrueLight> solves that problem :) 18:54:55 <Tron> the config file was perfectly correct 18:55:08 <Tron> the line was perfeclty correct 18:55:23 <Tron> just running make made it wrong 18:55:28 <Tron> something is broken 18:55:29 <TrueLight> Tron: that problem is really old, and really long known :) 18:55:36 <Tron> calling ./configure is _not_ the right answer 18:55:38 <TrueLight> if it recreates Makefile.config because of an update 18:55:40 <TrueLight> it fucks up 18:55:41 <TrueLight> badly 18:55:53 <TrueLight> dropping Makefile.config and using ./configure is 18:55:54 <TrueLight> but okay 18:55:57 <Tron> strange, it worked for more before 18:56:01 <Tron> for 2 years 18:56:07 <TrueLight> the last version change is around 2 years ago :p 18:56:10 <Tron> suddenly it doesn't work anymore 18:56:14 <TrueLight> Bjarni pushed 2 versions in the last month :p 18:56:17 <Tron> and you tell me it was always this way 18:56:22 <Tron> i tend to not believe you 18:56:34 <TrueLight> that is absolutely your choice :) 18:56:39 <TrueLight> but you aren't the first with the problem :) 18:56:50 <Tron> and it's very interesting that the only incorrect change is SDL-CONFIG 18:56:59 <Tron> zlib et al. are still correct 18:56:59 <TrueLight> most likely libdetect fails 18:57:06 <Bjarni> no 18:57:09 <Bjarni> that's not it 18:57:13 <Bjarni> well, not entirely 18:57:16 <TrueLight> SDL-CONFIG is known to be overwritten 18:57:25 <Tron> deleting Makefile.config and running make works fine, so the libdetection obviously works 18:57:43 <TrueLight> the update-code 18:57:43 * Brianetta nods 18:58:13 <TrueLight> ah, yes, see 18:58:15 <TrueLight> Makefile 18:58:17 <Bjarni> it appears that part of lib detection is done in the makefile itself instead of in makefile.libdetection and this behaviour is causing it since my fix for this issue only deals with the stuff in the detection file 18:58:19 <TrueLight> line 168 18:58:23 <TrueLight> always considered that weird 18:58:56 <TrueLight> but okay 18:59:00 <TrueLight> not the cause of this problem 18:59:01 <TrueLight> I dunno 18:59:12 <TrueLight> and to be honest, I don't want to know :p 18:59:18 <TrueLight> Makefile became a total crap, really 18:59:33 <Bjarni> today I got the idea to remove everything regarding MANUAL_CONFIG since it makes the makefile complex and I don't think anybody uses it 18:59:39 <Bjarni> I think it would also solve this issue 18:59:45 <TrueLight> was it ever used? :p 18:59:50 <Bjarni> yeah 19:00:05 <Bjarni> the first crosscompiler to compile win binaries on linux used it 19:00:32 <Bjarni> it didn't work well though and was never used as a script to make nightly builds even though that was the idea when it was made 19:01:22 *** RoySmeding [n=Roy@c514451cb.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 19:01:42 <Bjarni> ok, nobody screams when I said that I will do it, so I will start a makefile cleanup 19:02:20 *** |Jeroen| [n=jeroen@dD57729A7.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 19:02:35 <Brianetta> The closes I come to manual config is stuff like: 19:02:46 <Brianetta> RELEASE=r4343 DEDICATED=1 make 19:06:16 *** Andrew67 [n=andrew67@206.248.80.224] has joined #openttd 19:08:09 *** Tron [n=tron@p54A3F4C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd ["Client exiting"] 19:12:32 *** TrueLight is now known as TL|Away 19:15:30 *** Cipriano [n=cipri@a47034.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 19:16:51 <CIA-5> belugas * r4181 /trunk/ (11 files): CodeChange : Replaced [G/S]etMapExtraBits by [G/S]etTropicZone. Although it was an accessor, nor his usage nor the values were clear. 19:29:16 <Bjarni> tokai|ni, tokai|mdlx: do MorphOS use STATIC_ZLIB_PATH? 19:31:01 <Bjarni> tokai|ni, tokai|mdlx: are you here right now? 19:32:45 *** Cipri [n=cipri@a47034.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:33:28 <KUDr> Bjarni, TrueLight: can I make new branch/yapf for new PBS-able pathfinder? I don't want to lost current branch/pbs state. 19:34:17 <Bjarni> hmm 19:35:19 <Bjarni> why not finish pbs before making a new branch? 19:36:13 <KUDr> there should not be PBS at YAPF and then PBS can be done on top of it. But YAPF should work for all transport types 19:36:24 <KUDr> so YAPF != PBS 19:36:54 <Bjarni> so you mean PBS completion depends on completion of YAPF? 19:37:02 <KUDr> yes 19:37:10 <tokai|mdlx> Bjarni: no its empty in makefile.config. 19:37:14 <KUDr> but new PBS 19:37:17 <Bjarni> <KUDr> so YAPF != PBS <-- I'm aware of that 19:37:18 <KUDr> not the old one 19:37:27 <tokai|mdlx> Bjarni: only WITH_ZLIB:=1 there 19:37:54 <Bjarni> tokai|mdlx: good, because as far as I can see, it's kept for MorphOS, so now it goes 19:38:54 <Bjarni> KUDr: the way you put it, it would be silly not to make a new branch 19:39:19 <KUDr> then how can I do it? 19:39:22 <tokai|mdlx> malformed ddc resume :) 19:39:29 <KUDr> to work on YAPF only 19:39:37 <KUDr> and later on PBS 19:39:48 <Bjarni> tokai|mdlx: doesn't matter. All I needed to know was if you actually used that flag 19:40:02 <tokai|mdlx> Bjarni: i never did. 19:40:11 <Bjarni> then nobody ever used it :p 19:40:32 <tokai|mdlx> zlib is either in /lib /usr/lib or /usr/local/lib (but usually /usr/lib) 19:40:39 *** MagicJohn [n=magical@unaffiliated/magicjohn] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:42:00 <Bjarni> KUDr: I guess it mean that you have to make a new branch. Just remember not to forget the PBS branch so it gets horrible outdated and nearly impossible to update 19:43:05 *** Scia [n=scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 19:43:07 <KUDr> I don't plan to update it. PBS will be new. And I want to hold YAPF synced with trunk 19:43:25 <KUDr> PBS will then overtake YAPF 19:44:27 <Bjarni> you put a lot of work into PBS already, right? 19:45:08 <KUDr> yes, but it will not be used as-is. Now I am bit smarter 19:46:31 <Bjarni> hehe 19:46:56 <KUDr> you don't learn while programing? 19:46:59 <Bjarni> I meant that you will not remove your work that you have reached so far, right? 19:47:39 <KUDr> not removed, but change the form (i.e. different files) 19:48:16 <Bjarni> <KUDr> you don't learn while programing? <-- when I started with OTTD, I didn't know about makefiles, static/dynamic libs, porting issues and so on, but that didn't stop me so I did some research on a need to know basis :) 19:48:46 <Bjarni> not to mention all the stuff I learned in C 19:48:56 <KUDr> yes, I am also learning a lot of new things 19:48:59 *** MeusH [n=MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has joined #openttd 19:49:11 <MeusH> hello everybody 19:49:27 <MeusH> please anybody help me in maths 19:49:34 <KUDr> hello from everybody 19:49:43 <Prof_Frink> 1+1~=3 19:49:46 <Bjarni> some of the stuff I learned when working with OTTD are stuff that you don't need to consider when working on small projects that don't have to run as fast as possible and don't have to be ported 19:49:54 <Bjarni> hi MeusH 19:49:58 <Bjarni> 2+2=4 19:50:09 <MeusH> is (a*b*c)^2 equal to a^2*b^2*c^2? 19:50:21 <KUDr> Bjarni: same to me with the portability 19:50:35 <peter1138> eveninging 19:50:37 <peter1138> what did i miss? 19:50:41 <Bjarni> everything 19:50:49 <peter1138> summary? 19:50:49 <Bjarni> that happened since you left 19:50:53 <Kalpa> MeusH: Yes 19:51:29 <peter1138> i see my name 19:51:31 <peter1138> and newgrf 19:51:33 <peter1138> hmm 19:51:36 <peter1138> what's that about? heh 19:51:36 <MeusH> thanks Kalpa 19:51:49 <MeusH> and (a+b+c)^2 = a^2+b^2+c^2? 19:51:51 <Brianetta> 2 + 2 = 5 19:51:58 <Brianetta> (for very large values of 2) 19:52:02 <Bjarni> MeusH: think about it. If you wonder about something like that, see if you can use the standard rules to rewrite it. (a*b*c)^2 = (a*b*c)*(a*b*c) = a*a*b*b*c*c = a^2*b^2*c^2 19:52:04 <KUDr> peter1138: C++? 19:52:54 <peter1138> oh 19:53:01 <peter1138> i thought that wasn't wanted 19:53:29 <Vornicus> (a + b + c)^2 = a^2 + b^2 + c^2 + 2ab + 2bc + 2ca 19:53:35 <MeusH> Bjarni: wouldn't it be a*a * a*b * a*c * b*a * b*b * b*c * c*a * c*b * c*c ? All elements should be multiplied by the others 19:53:54 <Bjarni> Vornicus beat me to it 19:54:02 <Vornicus> nope, bjarni got it right the first time. 19:54:06 <Bjarni> MeusH: a*b*c = a*c*b 19:54:26 <Vornicus> Meush: multiplication is not distributive over multiplication, but it is associative. 19:54:36 <Bjarni> order doesn't matter when you use + or *, so you can switch it if needed 19:54:44 <Vornicus> and commutative. 19:56:27 <Vornicus> anyway your suggestion fails the laugh test. Consider: 2*(3*5*7) = 2*(105) = 210. But (2*3)*(2*5)*(2*7) = 6*10*14 = 840 19:57:04 <MeusH> yeah, but I don't understand why (a+b+c)^2 = a^2 + b^2 + c^2 + 2ab + 2bc + 2ca, while (a*b*c)^2 is a*a*b*b*c*c 19:57:20 <Vornicus> Because multiplication is distributive over addition but not over multiplication. 19:57:23 <Kalpa> Because multiplication is not addition? Uhh? :) 19:58:17 <Bjarni> MeusH: because a^2 = a*a, and (a*b)^2 then have to be (a*b)*(a*b) 19:58:38 <Bjarni> resulting in a*b*a*b and reordered to a*a*b*b 19:58:43 <Kalpa> MeusH: Because a * a = aa, but a + a = 2a 19:59:00 *** Scia [n=scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:59:44 *** DJ_Mirage [n=djmirage@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:59:54 <MeusH> so I don't have to multiply each element of left () by all elements of right (), like when adding? 20:00:24 <Vornicus> You don't have to do that, right. 20:00:32 <Kalpa> MeusH: (a+b+c)^2 = (a+b+c)*(a+b+c) = a*a + a*b + a*c + b*a + b*b + b*c + c*a + c*b + c*c = a^2+b^2+c^2 + 2ab + 2bc + 2ca :) 20:00:49 <Kalpa> MeusH: No, of course not with multiplication, since (a*b*c)*d = a*b*c*d 20:01:58 <MeusH> thank you so much 20:02:06 <MeusH> you're really helpful 20:02:06 <MeusH> thanks 20:02:42 *** DaleStan [n=Dale@12-202-240-195.client.insightBB.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 20:02:44 *** DaleStan_ [n=Dale@12-202-240-195.client.insightBB.com] has joined #openttd 20:02:46 *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan 20:02:50 <MeusH> (and don't tell anyone I'm in math-profiled class) 20:02:54 <CIA-5> KUDr * r4182 /branch/yapf/: 20:02:54 <CIA-5> [YAPF] - New branch for 'Yet Another PathFinder' based on trunk r4181. Attempt to create fast and flexible pathfinder. 20:02:54 <CIA-5> - Later the new PBS should be implemented on top of it. 20:02:54 <CIA-5> - Thanks to Celestar for the name 'YAPF'. 20:04:23 <peter1138> i always thought pbs should be pathfinder independent... oh well 20:05:23 *** ZsoL [i=zsol@login09.caesar.elte.hu] has joined #openttd 20:05:29 <glx> I though the actual pbs was removed because it was pathfinder dependant :) 20:05:53 <MeusH> no, it was because of crashes and traffic jams 20:05:56 <KUDr> yes, should be independent 20:06:13 <glx> MeusH: yes, because of that too :) 20:06:29 <KUDr> but if NTP is not able to support it and NPF is too slow, I have no other choice 20:07:15 <MeusH> If KUDr makes a working YAPF, so everyone would be happy with it, it will be the only pathfinder, and PBS won't be pathfinder dependant :) 20:07:39 <KUDr> :) its my dream 20:07:52 <KUDr> but we will see 20:07:56 <KUDr> I can fail 20:08:09 <peter1138> heh 20:09:58 <peter1138> strange, i've hit the save thread debugger bug 20:10:30 <KUDr> debugger bug? 20:14:08 <CIA-5> bjarni * r4183 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): 20:14:08 <CIA-5> -Codechange: [Makefile]: removed MANUAL_CONFIG as it's not used anymore 20:14:08 <CIA-5> This should hopefully fix the issue where WITH_SDL can be defined while SDL-CONFIG is not 20:14:08 <CIA-5> Added an error if WITH_SDL is defined but SDL-CONFIG is not. The same goes for WITH_PNG even though nobody reported this as a problem 20:14:08 <CIA-5> removed STATIC_ZLIB_PATH as it turns out that nobody used it 20:19:06 *** black_Nightmare [n=Husky_dr@modemcable254.254-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 20:19:07 <black_Nightmare> hey 20:19:58 <black_Nightmare> just wondering but there a list of when vehicles expires? (like what year is the A4 steam not sold anymore..etc) 20:20:23 *** |Jeroen| [n=jeroen@dD57729A7.access.telenet.be] has quit ["Whoopsy"] 20:21:35 <Vornicus> There is, somewhere. 20:21:48 <Vornicus> may not exactly be in that format though. 20:22:09 <black_Nightmare> yeah...sometimes I like one gnine and always wonder why it disappear when I'm not done bulking up a route yet... 20:22:33 <black_Nightmare> it was weird once to have one route that was many 112km/h dmu's and one single SH40 diesel because I needed one more train but the dmu was not sold anymore 20:22:35 <black_Nightmare> :p 20:22:47 *** BJH_ [n=chatzill@e176120067.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 20:22:56 <Vornicus> nope, looks like the data I saw does not include it. 20:23:00 <Vornicus> I'll see what I can find. 20:23:30 <black_Nightmare> yeah...I've noticed that...many pages can list what is told in the game .. but its difficult to find what is not already told in the game (eg year not sold anymore) 20:23:55 <Vornicus> http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Train_Comparison <--- here's a comparison list in the wiki. 20:24:28 <Vornicus> Someone with GRF experience should be able to tear the actual GRFs open and ind this data. 20:25:36 <black_Nightmare> hmmm that table actually helps 20:25:54 <black_Nightmare> if I read right... eg the Pannier tank will be gone by 1944 20:25:59 <Vornicus> Nope. 20:26:10 <black_Nightmare> oh well..was a try 20:26:28 <Vornicus> Lifespan is how long an individual engine lasts; engines that have gone past their lifespan are considerably less reliable. 20:26:45 <Born_Acorn> Lets put back the Jinty from TTO! 20:27:35 <black_Nightmare> oh yeah that 20:27:46 <black_Nightmare> vornicus..as soon as they go red age they break down frequently 20:27:56 <black_Nightmare> and one year past their life: breaks down almost all times ^_^ 20:28:03 <black_Nightmare> I hate road vehicles for that sometimes 20:28:09 <black_Nightmare> keeps breaking down each few road tiles lol 20:31:33 *** MagicJohn [n=magical@host81-156-149-103.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:31:52 *** RoySmeding [n=Roy@c514451cb.cable.wanadoo.nl] has quit ["kthxbye"] 20:32:45 <Born_Acorn> The Jinty was the first locomotive you got in TTO. Shame CS had to remove it for Maglevs. 20:33:16 <black_Nightmare> what was the Jinty again? 20:33:22 <CIA-5> KUDr * r4184 /branch/yapf/strgen/strgen.c: -Fix: Changed file name/line number format in warnings/errors to support MSVC navigation 20:33:34 <Born_Acorn> A small steam engine 20:33:54 <Born_Acorn> Smaller and weaker than the Pannier tank, but was available earlier, for a 1920 start year. 20:34:41 <peter1138> Born_Acorn! 20:34:45 <peter1138> new sprites! 20:34:58 <Born_Acorn> peter1138! Integrate the Jinty! 20:35:05 <peter1138> do what? 20:35:11 <Born_Acorn> Yes! 20:35:18 <black_Nightmare> born_acorn.. 1920? hmmm that would explain one particular map 20:35:28 <black_Nightmare> could lay tracks but there was NO engines to choose from at all 20:35:40 <black_Nightmare> it was a pre-1950 map for sure, can't recall what year it was 20:35:57 <Born_Acorn> WIth certain grf sets, the start year is 1920. 20:36:06 <black_Nightmare> yeah...that figures 20:36:14 <black_Nightmare> had to stuck to buses/lorries for a long time 20:36:18 *** ZsoL_ [i=zsol@login09.caesar.elte.hu] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:36:19 <Born_Acorn> so perhaps the author was using one at the time, and thought not of the default vehicles. 20:36:53 <peter1138> Born_Acorn: ukwaypointsw.grf! 20:36:59 <XeryusTC> http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?t=430098 <- can some experienced C/C++ devs vote here? 20:37:11 <Born_Acorn> peter1138, soon! 20:37:12 *** BJH [n=chatzill@e176106191.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:37:25 <Born_Acorn> must do glass station first! 20:37:34 *** BJH_ is now known as BJH 20:38:33 <peter1138> XeryusTC: why? 20:40:00 <Born_Acorn> He is trying to rig the vote! 20:41:25 <CIA-5> KUDr * r4185 /branch/yapf/ (4 files in 2 dirs): [YAPF] - added VC8 project files 20:41:36 *** RvGaTe [i=info@c78129.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 20:41:40 <RvGaTe> Hey 20:41:52 <RvGaTe> i have a question 20:42:09 <Born_Acorn> we have the answers. 20:42:28 <RvGaTe> since openttd is made for handhelds aswell, are there versions that might work on mobile phones? :P 20:42:42 <RvGaTe> or isn't there a java version 20:42:43 *** Zr40 [n=Zirconiu@cl-1124.ams-04.nl.sixxs.net] has joined #openttd 20:42:52 *** Zr40_ [n=Zirconiu@cl-1124.ams-04.nl.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:43:13 <Brianetta> There is no Java version. 20:43:20 <RvGaTe> aahh... 20:43:20 <Brianetta> It was written in C, not Java. 20:43:40 <Brianetta> It can run on any platform that has a C compiler. 20:44:04 <RvGaTe> might be a cool to make it availeble for mobile phones... 20:44:13 <RvGaTe> just an idea for the future :P 20:44:38 <Born_Acorn> I has been suggested before. But nobody is willing to do the work. 20:44:46 <RvGaTe> oh 20:44:58 <Brianetta> The game would have to be rewritten in Java... 20:45:16 <Brianetta> There's a slim chance for Smartphones, though 20:45:16 <Born_Acorn> But people who want it done and know how to do it could do it 20:45:22 <RvGaTe> I understand that, maybe you'll find some guru's in the future 20:45:35 <Born_Acorn> The PSP version was unexpected. 20:46:19 <guru3> psp version of openttd? 20:46:36 *** Jenkz [n=nobody@80-192-44-21.stb.ubr05.dund.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:47:11 *** Mucht|zZz_ is now known as Mucht 20:47:33 <Brianetta> Yeah. You need an old, crackable PSP to play it. 20:47:55 <XeryusTC> <@peter1138> XeryusTC: why? <- because me and my friend want to know what devs think ;) 20:52:46 *** TL|Away [n=kvirc@truelight.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:53:01 *** ^Cartman^ [n=Eric_Car@ti100710a081-6310.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 20:56:06 *** sijmen [n=sijmen@h45058.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 20:59:09 <sijmen> What's the deal with those new graphics? I've seen some of those pictures, and they look great, but there doesn't appear to be any kind of roadmap 20:59:41 *** KritiK [i=Maxim@ppp85-140-20-97.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #openttd 21:01:23 <Vornicus> When they have all the buildings and trains and so forth done, we'll get shiny stuff. 21:01:41 <sijmen> That sounds great. Will anything happen to the tile size? 21:02:40 <Vornicus> yeah, we'll probably be able to have much bigger tiles. 21:02:46 <sijmen> Woot! 21:03:02 <Vornicus> Stuff I've seen I think has tiles about four times the linear size of what we have now. 21:03:10 <sijmen> Wow 21:03:51 <sijmen> There wouldn't be any kind of mockup screenshot? Some of these tiles combined? 21:03:56 <Vornicus> Though since all the stuff is done in a 3d renderer, it should be possible to get arbitrarily detailed tiles, constrained only by graphical memory. 21:08:21 <Vornicus> though considering the number of those - there are hundreds of rail tiles, dozens of road tiles, something like 150 total buildings, 50 or so trains, 19 distinct blank tile directions with something like fifteen different regular terrain types... 21:09:21 <sijmen> But many of those can be generated, or not? Most 3D tools I know support some sort of script-based batch rendering 21:09:36 <Vornicus> I'm talking the amount of stuff we need to keep in memory. 21:10:29 <sijmen> Ah, yes, stupid 21:10:43 *** sw4y [n=sw4y@snat2.arachne.czfree.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:13:27 <Vornicus> there /are/ things that you can generate instead of holding though. I've got somewhere around here an attempt at making the terrain smooth... to do it with sprites you'd need hundreds of individual items, but if you run it as a 3D routine and just apply T&L to it as you go you get to the point where you need only the textures, and you can get an arbitrary amount of detail. 21:15:28 <Born_Acorn> OpenTTD's gui seems very minimalistic compared to other games, especially at 1280x1024 21:16:41 <Vornicus> http://vorn.dyndns.org/~vorn/ottdgfx/bay.jpg 21:16:43 <Bjarni> http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Centennial <-- just updated the real life info on this engine 21:16:45 <Bjarni> comments? 21:17:48 <Vornicus> meep. forgot to put it in the right place. refresh 21:18:12 <Bjarni> Vornicus: still not found 21:18:19 <Bjarni> now it's there 21:18:28 <Bjarni> wow, looks nice 21:19:02 <sijmen> Me and my friends are constantly dropped from the server with 'out of sync' errors. Can anything be down about that? 21:19:14 *** Mukke [n=Mukke@x1-6-00-02-1e-f6-09-41.k607.webspeed.dk] has quit [] 21:19:42 <peter1138> KUDr: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=24279 << sort this guy out ;p 21:19:56 <Bjarni> sijmen: you got a stable connection as well as free CPU time? 21:19:56 <KUDr> ok 21:20:41 <Bjarni> nice, we got an svn timeline :D 21:20:50 <Bjarni> I mean besides svn log 21:20:53 <peter1138> ... 21:20:57 <peter1138> you didn't know about that? :P 21:21:01 <Bjarni> no 21:21:31 <Bjarni> I don't think I needed it anyway 21:21:37 <Bjarni> I mean I get the mails 21:21:45 <sijmen> Bjarni, connection is stable as far as I know, CPU time.. not sure 21:21:48 <sijmen> Vehicles are lagging 21:22:32 <Bjarni> lag is a sign that you got problems that could result in the desyncs 21:22:56 <sijmen> The CPU is idling 95% 21:23:12 <Bjarni> on the server as well? 21:23:17 <sijmen> Hmm, is there some way I can use to check the connection? 21:23:20 <sijmen> Yeah, on the server 21:23:21 <Vornicus> Bjarni: that's actually a clipping of wholemap2.jpg in the same place. 21:23:33 <Vornicus> which is a render I made some months ago. 21:23:58 <Bjarni> sijmen: you can't check the connection yet :( 21:24:09 <Bjarni> normal ping gives a pretty good idea though 21:24:26 <Bjarni> also you can type some stuff in the console to make it better 21:24:29 <sijmen> 1.4 ms :) 21:24:30 <Bjarni> I forgot what though 21:25:26 <Bjarni> <peter1138> KUDr: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=24279 << sort this guy out ;p <-- well he defines himself as a freak, so what do you expect? 21:25:43 <KUDr> heh 21:25:45 <peter1138> a bit more respect ;p 21:26:41 <Vornicus> In any case, it's possible to make a smooth world and populate it with sprites like normal; my version is not ready for that sort of work, though. it would still need earthworks, for instance, and may need to render roads and rails itself too, to make them look sane. 21:27:29 <Bjarni> Vornicus: how do it work? 21:27:43 <Bjarni> I guess it's not just new sprites 21:27:52 <Vornicus> It's not. 21:28:07 <Vornicus> Actually what it does is it uses beziers. 21:28:35 <Vornicus> it interpolates linearly through each map cell, then uses biquadratic interpoation on the nine points around any individual corner. 21:29:03 <Bjarni> sounds slow compared to sprites 21:29:12 <Vornicus> I once tried to calculate how many individual sprites you'd need for this job, and it was a pretty absurd number. 21:29:27 <MiHaMiX> Possible bug report on 0.4.7: 21:29:57 <MiHaMiX> it's impossible to destroy a power plant with the appropriate patches set to on 21:30:24 <MiHaMiX> LOL 21:30:27 <MiHaMiX> it's a translation bug 21:30:29 <MiHaMiX> sorry :) 21:30:32 <Vornicus> (because your sprites for this would depend on not only the corners of THIS cell, but the corners of all the cells immediately around this one) 21:31:25 <Bjarni> ok, one bug report closed (even before getting opened) :D 21:31:29 <MiHaMiX> :DDD 21:31:33 <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: no. 21:31:41 <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: a translation bug is being filed. 21:32:03 <Bjarni> but it's not a bug in my "world", so it is closed for me ;) 21:32:09 <MiHaMiX> :P 21:32:34 <Bjarni> <Vornicus> (because your sprites for this would depend on not only the corners of THIS cell, but the corners of all the cells immediately around this one) <-- sounds slow as well. How do you do it then? 21:32:49 <Vornicus> Well, I do it exactly like that. 21:32:54 <Vornicus> Well, sort of. 21:33:43 <Bjarni> even though it looks nice, if it is so slow that it will never be committed, it sounds like a waste of time 21:33:46 <Vornicus> Trick here is that the individual cells aren't really rendered as a whole - Each bezier patch covers 1/4 of each of four cells. 21:34:10 *** ^Cartman^ [n=Eric_Car@ti100710a081-6310.bb.online.no] has quit ["Que?"] 21:34:48 <Vornicus> anyway it would /still/ be faster than using software video, even with all this manipulation. 21:35:12 <sijmen> Good night all 21:35:26 *** sijmen [n=sijmen@h45058.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:36:06 <Bjarni> you mean you do it in hardware? 21:36:28 <Vornicus> Yeah. Everything I have described is /trivial/ in OpenGL. 21:36:43 <Bjarni> I guess so 21:37:02 <Bjarni> also you use the platform that should be the best to develop OpenGL stuff on 21:37:30 *** Mucht is now known as Mucht|zZz 21:37:52 <Bjarni> you got some sort of fps counter? 21:38:30 <Bjarni> and (more interesting): can I try it? 21:38:34 <Vornicus> No. Actually this stuff I haven't gotten around to implementing because I've gotten bogged down. 21:39:10 <Bjarni> then how did you make the screenshots? Surely you did make some code 21:39:12 <Vornicus> As soon as I finish a few other little things I'll have another go at it; I still need to learn how to do texturing in OpenGL. 21:39:44 <Vornicus> Yeah the screenshots are from a POV-Ray script... 21:39:59 <Vornicus> but it just uses textures, triangles, and parallel lighting. 21:40:51 <Vornicus> the crappy thing about povray is that it does all the calculation as text manipulation, and I wrote the bezier code by hand, so it takes five minutes to run the calculations. 21:42:10 <Vornicus> and then more time to do all that. But again this is done all in software, not even vaguely efficiently, by a system designed to look nice instead of be fast. 21:42:17 *** xahodo [n=xander@xahodo.demon.nl] has joined #openttd 21:43:50 *** Angst [n=Angst@p54945C82.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["n8"] 21:44:33 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-48-88.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit ["Tschüß"] 21:46:15 <Kalpa> \o/ 21:47:35 <xahodo> Hello 21:48:03 <KUDr> <peter1138> KUDr: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=24279 << sort this guy out ;p <-- OK, done 21:52:34 <MeusH> goodnight 21:52:39 *** MeusH [n=MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has quit ["Goodbye"] 21:53:29 *** Maedhros [n=jc@gentoo/developer/Maedhros] has quit ["leaving"] 21:53:32 * Vornicus vaguely wonders if he explained that properly. 21:54:39 *** tokai|mdlx [n=tokai@p54B84671.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:57:10 *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone 21:57:59 <Bjarni> KUDr: I just remembered something. The new map thing also wonders about pathfinding 21:58:06 <Belugas_Gone> Good night, play well, dream well 21:58:13 <Bjarni> bye Belugas_Gone 21:58:15 <Bjarni> o_O 21:58:33 <Bjarni> actually Belugas_Gone goes to bed before me even though I'm hours ahead of him??? 21:58:44 <KUDr> Bjarni: do you know some details? 21:58:50 <Belugas_Gone> Becasue I have to go home, 21:58:56 <Bjarni> ahh 21:58:57 <Belugas_Gone> put batby to bath 21:59:01 <Bjarni> end of work day :) 21:59:02 <Belugas_Gone> supper 21:59:06 <Belugas_Gone> TTD 21:59:10 <Belugas_Gone> and then... sleep 21:59:12 <Bjarni> not TTD 21:59:14 <Bjarni> OTTD 21:59:16 <Bjarni> ;) 21:59:17 <Belugas_Gone> O 21:59:28 <Belugas_Gone> stucked in buffer ;) 21:59:40 <Bjarni> heh 21:59:51 <Bjarni> <KUDr> Bjarni: do you know some details? <-- hmm, I guess so 22:00:14 <Bjarni> it was something regarding caching stuff in the map 22:00:28 <Bjarni> Belugas_Gone might be able to explain it better :p 22:01:07 <KUDr> hmm, ok, then later 22:01:54 <Vornicus> It would be nice to be able to see which direction a signal block is pointed, especially on segments that go east-west; it's sometimes hard to tell. 22:02:02 <KUDr> simplest yapf configurations will not cache anything - i'll add it later to support all versions 22:03:11 *** RvGaTe [i=info@c78129.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:03:39 *** RvGaTe [i=info@c78129.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 22:04:10 <Bjarni> egladil, glx: didn't newmap have some idea regarding pathfinding? 22:04:17 <KUDr> Vornicus: I guess that if you stay on the signal it is surrounded by two blocks (sometimes only one) 22:05:16 *** Cheery [i=Henri@a81-197-45-47.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:05:36 <Bjarni> KUDr: also blathijs works on the pool system, that will when committed add pools for stuff like pathfinding to quick dynamically allocated cache that you clear quick 22:05:38 *** Nubian [n=nubian@mrkvovy.kokotko.sk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:05:56 <Vornicus> ...it just occured to me that there's a pretty simple way to sorta do that already: add stuff to a grf such that in addition to drawing a signal, it draws arrows on the track. 22:06:18 <Vornicus> dunno how easy that actually is though. 22:06:40 <Bjarni> a cache that can be used to say go though junctions and cache which way you went to find the fastest one and once you decided, you don't need the cache anymore 22:07:22 <Bjarni> Vornicus: it's easy to draw it, but to actually add it, you will have a problem 22:07:28 <RichK67> hi all 22:07:30 <Bjarni> you see, you need to encode a grf file 22:07:33 *** Nubian [n=nubian@mrkvovy.kokotko.sk] has joined #openttd 22:07:38 <Bjarni> and the codec contains i386 asm 22:07:44 <Bjarni> hi RichK67 22:07:53 <Vornicus> ew 22:08:21 <Vornicus> I do have an XP box downstairs. 22:08:24 <KUDr> Bjarni: it is probably something else than I want to use the cache for 22:08:54 <Bjarni> Vornicus: ok, then you can use the grf codec ;) 22:09:00 <Vornicus> right 22:09:28 <Bjarni> KUDr: well, the idea is that you can generate a linked list sort of thing, only it's faster than a real linked list 22:09:30 <KUDr> Bjarni: the PF cache should be able to tell what other junctions one junction leads to 22:09:46 <KUDr> hmm 22:09:53 <KUDr> then I need to study it 22:09:59 <KUDr> to understand better 22:10:28 <RichK67> hmmm.... looks like people dont like my latest airport :( 22:10:53 <KUDr> Bjarni: I don't need list but network 22:11:14 <Vornicus> RichK67: link me? 22:11:16 <KUDr> each node has up to 4 connected nodes 22:11:37 <Bjarni> ahh, you want to make that routing thing with nodes and edges 22:11:44 *** e1ko [n=31k0@a02-0432c.kn.vutbr.cz] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.67+ [SeaMonkey 1.0/2006013012]"] 22:11:48 <KUDr> yes 22:11:54 <Bjarni> I coded something like that today 22:11:59 <KUDr> :) 22:12:03 <Bjarni> but not anything that can be used for OTTD 22:12:04 <KUDr> give me it 22:12:09 <KUDr> aha 22:12:10 <RichK67> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=423077#423077 its the type 3 extended i like, but nobody else seems to! 22:12:23 <Bjarni> because: 1: it's for uni for learning, 2: it's... java 22:13:05 <KUDr> not the language, but algorithms matter 22:13:49 <KUDr> Java has one big advantage against c/c++ : garbage collector 22:16:53 <Bjarni> I don't think you can use the algorithm though 22:17:00 <Bjarni> it's too basic for that 22:18:06 <Bjarni> basically it's a class that got the functions to add/remove edges and an a 2 dimentional array to hold all nodes and how to get from one to another 22:18:25 <Bjarni> not really something that can be easily scaled to OTTD scale while not making it dead slow 22:18:44 <Bjarni> it works for like 10 nodes, but you don't want to add more than that 22:19:45 <Bjarni> remember that memory allocation for it is n^2 bytes, where n is the number of nodes and it's dead slow when add/removing nodes 22:19:49 <CIA-5> KUDr * r4186 /branch/yapf/ (rail_cmd.c road_cmd.c station_cmd.c tunnelbridge_cmd.c): - Fix: RailType instead of uint in 3 functions to suppress compilation errors (VC8) 22:20:07 <Bjarni> but it's not the same as I would not talk about it in OTTD ;) 22:20:19 <KUDr> OK 22:20:49 <Bjarni> I have used other stuff in OTTD, that I learned at uni 22:20:54 <Bjarni> like pointers :D 22:21:12 <KUDr> good 22:21:30 <KUDr> C without pointers is bit unusable 22:22:45 <Bjarni> you will be amazed to see how much can be done without pointers 22:22:56 <Bjarni> it's a matter of creativity 22:23:10 <Bjarni> I didn't say that it's a good idea to do so, but it can be done 22:23:22 <Bjarni> OTTD could be coded without a single pointer 22:23:27 <KUDr> never tried it 22:23:37 *** mowl [n=sk@nat-wh-1.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #openttd 22:24:21 <Vornicus> and no cheating with 1-length arrays! 22:24:36 <KUDr> :) 22:25:00 <Bjarni> heh, I once made a whole app in main (or whatever the name was in pascal) and fucked up the compiler because it could not handle 64k+ chars 22:25:40 <Bjarni> that was when I had learned how to code, but not how to actually make useful stuff, like splitting stuff into several files 22:26:01 <Bjarni> shit, it's more than 10 years ago 22:26:06 <Bjarni> I'm getting old 22:26:08 <Bjarni> :s 22:26:34 <KUDr> not as old as me 22:26:53 <KUDr> u r still yang 22:27:11 * Bjarni goes to look for ying 22:27:21 <RichK67> hmm... and its my birthday sunday.... (im older than M.Schumacher ;) ) 22:27:33 <KUDr> :) young 22:28:06 <Bjarni> RichK67: turning 39? 22:28:33 <RichK67> yeah - its frightening when you realise that you were at uni before today's graduates were born!! :) 22:28:47 <RichK67> the 67 sort of gives it away ;) 22:28:59 <KUDr> yes, i know that 22:29:11 <Bjarni> hehe 22:29:41 <RichK67> and i started programming when Jimmy Carter was still in the Whitehouse! 22:29:47 <Bjarni> it's scary to see people coding in here (good coders) and then tell them that I used computers before they were born 22:30:20 <RichK67> lol - good to know some other devs are "vintage" coders ;) 22:30:51 * Vornicus got his first computer at 3 1/2, in 1984. 22:30:58 <Vornicus> And sorta learned basic. 22:31:15 <Vornicus> but I've only really been programming for about 5 years. 22:31:24 <Bjarni> you beat me by one year 22:31:31 <Vornicus> wow 22:31:53 <RichK67> started computing degree in 1985 ;) 22:32:02 <Vornicus> sad thing is that this means that I've been typing longer than I've been writing by hand. 22:32:27 <Bjarni> don't say that 22:32:30 <KUDr> I started 1979 on old ADT 22:32:38 <Bjarni> it makes me realise that the same is true for me 22:32:43 <RichK67> i miss the Z80 :) 22:32:44 <Vornicus> heh 22:32:52 <Bjarni> hmm 22:33:01 <Bjarni> only old people in here right now.... 22:33:09 * Vornicus is but 24. 22:33:14 <RichK67> no stamina these youngsters ;) 22:33:39 <Bjarni> hmm 22:33:59 <RichK67> btw bjarni - have you had chance to have a look at some of the code? 22:34:04 <Vornicus> My father used to be a programmer, but it's been so long that I never thought of him as one until I found a copy of his resume from 1982. 22:34:27 <Bjarni> if you are 24, you were born in 1981, making you 3 years old in 1984... really young to get a computer 22:34:36 <Vornicus> yeah 22:34:39 <Vornicus> it was a C64. 22:35:09 <Vornicus> The C64 user's manual I think was the first book I read on my own without having it first read to me. 22:35:30 <Bjarni> I never got around to read it 22:35:35 <Vornicus> heh 22:35:57 <Bjarni> it was in a strange and completely unknown language (English) 22:36:05 <Vornicus> ahaaa 22:36:12 <RichK67> now that would be a helluva port - zx spectrum and C64 versions of OTTD :) 22:37:14 <Bjarni> <RichK67> btw bjarni - have you had chance to have a look at some of the code? <-- I intended to, but then I fixed a bug in OTTD instead 22:37:26 <Bjarni> that's a decent tradeoff :) 22:38:19 <Bjarni> Vornicus: btw are you good at using Xcode? 22:38:23 <RichK67> lol - okies.... any thoughts about another airport? ive tried to do some long/thin ones, but 3 tiles wide is a bugger 22:38:47 *** shintah [i=bebble@bebble.olf.sgsnet.se] has quit ["<volcone> tycker inte man borde få idrotta i skolan, eftersom man springer så jävulskt mkt i wow"] 22:39:06 <Bjarni> I'm unsure about them. I kind of like #3, but people in general appears to be against it 22:39:43 <Bjarni> [23:16] <Bjarni> http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Centennial <-- just updated the real life info on this engine 22:39:43 <Bjarni> [23:16] <Bjarni> comments? 22:39:48 <RichK67> yeah, it would have good throughput, and be almost lock-free (very easy to segregate - only 4 blocks) 22:39:50 <Bjarni> 90 minutes and nobody said anything... 22:40:45 <Vornicus> Bjarni: I haven't touched it in a while. I usually use TextWrangler. 22:41:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> [31.03. 00:22] <Bjarni> remember that memory allocation for it is n^2 bytes, where n is the number of nodes and it's dead slow when add/removing nodes <- for OTTD that is way too much, you rather use dynamic arrays to store the neighbours... as a track system is usually very loosely connected 22:41:42 <Bjarni> Vornicus: I'm a bit confused about interfaces. I made a button, but is not really sure how to do an action in the code when it's pressed 22:41:43 <Vornicus> (My native programming language is Python, so the heavy stuff of most actual IDEs gets in the way) 22:43:03 <egladil> [31 00:04 CEST] Bjarni egladil, glx: didn't newmap have some idea regarding pathfinding? <== we had some ideas about GetTileTrackStatus 22:43:43 <Vornicus> Bjarni: sadly I have never done any GUI programming, so I can't help you there. 22:44:15 <Bjarni> Vornicus: I have never actually made a GUI before besides a little SDL thing a few years ago (which I happily forgot because I haven't used it since) 22:44:34 <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause2> [31.03. 00:22] <Bjarni> remember that memory allocation for it is n^2 bytes, where n is the number of nodes and it's dead slow when add/removing nodes <- for OTTD that is way too much, you rather use dynamic arrays to store the neighbours... as a track system is usually very loosely connected <-- yeah, I said that it's not suited for OTTD scale 22:46:31 *** xahodo [n=xander@xahodo.demon.nl] has quit [] 22:46:33 <RichK67> bjarni: usually there will be some code area where you can list an objects events - and write the event handler there 22:46:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> what a decent pathfinder has to do is: identify parallel tracks, and balance traffic through them 22:47:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> where the first part is the problematic one 22:47:27 <RichK67> eg. in vis basic, the form has buttons on, and in the form code area, you can say what happens when the button is clicked, double clicked, etc 22:47:28 <Bjarni> RichK67: yeah, I know. The question is where :) 22:47:29 <KUDr> <Eddi|zuHause2>: any idea how to do it? 22:47:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> once identified, the balancing should not be difficult 22:47:42 <Vornicus> I vaguely remember seeing a tutorial about it somewhere, Bjarni. 22:47:52 <Bjarni> yeah, I can remember SDL worked that way 22:48:22 <Vornicus> sadly it was for objective C, which generally offends my sensibilities. 22:48:24 <Bjarni> the issue now is that I used "interface builder" to make the interface and now I can't figure out how to link the actual code with the interface 22:48:46 <Bjarni> yeah, Apple tend to use Objective C for OS interface 22:49:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> KUDr_wrk: well... let's assume each signal is an edge between two nodes 22:49:31 <Bjarni> so the same goes for the OSX related files in OTTD (like the cocoa video driver, even though it looks really C like) 22:49:34 <Vornicus> okay, I found the tutorial I used. 22:49:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> you could eleminate each node that has only 2 neighbours (single track) 22:50:05 <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause2> KUDr_wrk: well... let's assume each signal is an edge between two nodes <-- I think everybody got that far without your help :p 22:50:25 <Vornicus> X-Code -> X-Code Help -> Cocoa group -> Developing Cocoa Objective-C Applications: A Tutorial 22:50:25 <Bjarni> Vornicus: link? 22:50:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> if you do that often enough, parallel tracks will become one single edge 22:50:32 <RichK67> anyone have any further thoughts on airports - im about 50% done on coding the Type 3 extended. should i finish, or abandon. I will make the mini heliport (3 helipads + hangar) as I think that looks good, but am I wasting my time on the main airport? 22:50:39 <Bjarni> that is sort of a link... good enough :) 22:50:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> (or a multi-edge between two 'real' nodes) 22:51:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> that would be my first approach... 22:51:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> of course, this reduced graph cannot be generated on each path query 22:52:18 <KUDr> I thought about using junctions as nodes 22:52:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> well yes, that will result in such a graph 22:52:44 <Vornicus> Have fun with that, Bjarni. 22:52:51 <Bjarni> :p 22:52:57 <Bjarni> I can't find it :( 22:52:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> all non-junction track segments will get unified to one edge 22:53:05 <Bjarni> maybe it's because I use Xcode 2.2 22:53:11 <Bjarni> they changed a lot of stuff 22:53:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> that edge could be weighted with length/number of tracks, and of course directions 22:53:38 * Bjarni tries google 22:53:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> and wether it is a station or not 22:53:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> (this will get important) 22:53:57 <KUDr> yes, but changing the track can block another train 22:54:16 <KUDr> so it must take in consideration all other nearby trains 22:54:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> on building a track, you have to recalculate the affected graph bits 22:55:09 <KUDr> hmm 22:55:10 <Bjarni> also you will have to look at signals on each edge 22:55:11 *** Prof_Frink [n=proffrin@cpc2-shep3-0-0-cust550.leic.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:55:13 *** Prof_Frink [n=proffrin@cpc2-shep3-0-0-cust550.leic.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 22:55:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, every node and edge must have a reference to all trains using it (or reserving to use it) 22:55:33 <Bjarni> not to mention the speed signs when calculating length (units or whatever we should call it) 22:55:41 <KUDr> yes, so far i got too 22:55:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> as well as each train has a reference to each node and edge it has reserved 22:55:52 <RichK67> any airport responses? (if none, type 3 ext will die....) 22:55:56 <KUDr> then junction registers all approached trains 22:56:25 <Bjarni> RichK67: why should it die? 22:56:39 <KUDr> but then you must also take in consideration their speed, their priorities, their other possible paths 22:56:53 <RichK67> takes time, and so far too many ppl complaining about its unreality 22:56:54 <KUDr> and you get to too complex task 22:57:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, junction nodes will get complicated 22:57:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> for large junctions, you should probably not try to get a "perfect" result 22:57:48 <RichK67> only way around the "unreality" is to have a wider airport, and we already have my commuter as a 4 tile width airport 22:58:12 <KUDr> Eddi|zuHause2: i would like to simplify that task 22:58:46 <KUDr> i.e. by having special waypoints that can mark such doubled tracks 22:59:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> automatic or user placed? 22:59:09 <KUDr> user placed 22:59:25 <KUDr> so you can mark your highways 22:59:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> RichK67's patch with the speed signs looks like this 23:00:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> but i rather thought of automatic things... 23:00:49 <KUDr> it can be automated later 23:01:06 <KUDr> better to do it step-by-step 23:01:12 <KUDr> and tune it 23:01:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> like i said... all parallel tracks will get reduced to one edge, and each junction gets reduced to one node 23:01:42 <KUDr> but they don't share junctions 23:01:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> especially stations would be edges. 23:01:56 <KUDr> junction is one tile w/ crossing tracks 23:02:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... i thought of junction as the entire signal block 23:02:31 <Bjarni> I think the best solution would be to store length of each edge (excluding signals and stuff like that, but including turn penalty) and then when a train (right now I'm thinking about trains only as they are the complex ones) wants to go down a certain edge, the pathfinder can follow it to detect red signals and speed signs and then see if the other edge is faster 23:02:33 <Bjarni> example 23:03:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> an edge would be a whole bunch of tracks in my design 23:03:34 <KUDr> Bjarni: the optimal result for one train can be disaster for other 23:03:44 <Bjarni> if edge A is 12 and edge B is 15, then it checks A and learns that it gets a penalty of 4 due to a speed sign and nothing is present on B, so it selects B. If A didn't have any speed signs, it would pick A without checking current status of B since it would never be faster than A 23:04:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> it would know the trains and the signals on the way 23:04:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> and can query them to dynamically update the weighted length 23:04:39 <KUDr> then we need event handlers 23:04:45 <KUDr> hmm 23:05:13 <KUDr> then pathfinder must contain also signals and trains 23:05:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> a train itself would only know a "general" path from the current position to the goal edge (station) 23:05:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> while the nodes then generate a "fine" path through the signal block 23:06:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> when the train arrives at the entrance signal 23:06:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> it then querys the exit edge to give an exit signal 23:06:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> and then generates a path from the entrance to the exit signal 23:07:01 <KUDr> hmm 23:07:04 <KUDr> maybe 23:07:18 <KUDr> its too late for me to think 23:07:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> the description is very high level ;) 23:08:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's only 1AM... the best time of the day ;) 23:09:01 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause2: how will you handle a junction node that is 50 tiles long? 23:09:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> you probably get problems there ;) 23:09:37 <Bjarni> I mean if you enter in one end and exits out the other end, you travelled 50 tiles that was not calculated in the edge thing 23:11:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> while on an edge, a train has no option but to go straight on, stop at signal, or turn around (only if 2 way section, like station) 23:12:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> so you would want to get these sections as long as possible 23:12:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> a junction node is a graph in itself 23:13:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> it has entrance signals, exit signals, 2 way signals and switch tiles 23:13:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> the odd straight tile that might be in there, can be reduced out, like before 23:15:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> a train that is on a junction node can update its path if the assigned exit signal changes (only, if that exit signal is still reachable from the position) 23:16:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> at this point, it would probably be easier to just integrate PBS in such a junction node, than to do it seperately 23:17:25 * KUDr must go to bed (gn all) 23:18:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> as a modification to the junction node's local pathfinding method 23:19:26 *** KUDr_wrk [n=KUDr@pcsousek.fit.vutbr.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:20:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> on entering a junction node (that is, right before passing the entrance signal), the node finds all reachable exit signals (with dynamically blocking already reserved paths) 23:20:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> then passes this list to the exit edge 23:21:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> the exit edge chooses one of these signals, minimum of the current weight modifications 23:22:27 *** KUDr_wrk [n=KUDr@pcsousek.fit.vutbr.cz] has joined #openttd 23:22:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> wb ;) 23:22:58 <KUDr> :) 23:23:22 <KUDr> I like VNC 23:25:43 *** RvGaTe [i=info@c78129.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit ["( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 3.81 :: www.XLhost.de )"] 23:25:45 *** Born_Acorn [n=bornacor@ACD6E755.ipt.aol.com] has quit [] 23:26:29 *** stavrosg [n=stavrosg@athedsl-16067.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:26:50 <MagicJohn> http://www.bash.org/?39183 23:27:28 *** Prof_Frink [n=proffrin@cpc2-shep3-0-0-cust550.leic.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["/quitiup\"] 23:28:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> just so you have it in your log: 23:28:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> [31.03. 01:22] <Eddi|zuHause2> on entering a junction node (that is, right before passing the entrance signal), the node finds all reachable exit signals (with dynamically blocking already reserved paths) 23:28:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> [31.03. 01:22] <Eddi|zuHause2> then passes this list to the exit edge 23:28:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> [31.03. 01:23] <Eddi|zuHause2> the exit edge chooses one of these signals, minimum of the current weight modifications 23:29:02 <Bjarni> MagicJohn: good one :) 23:29:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> (when you are awake enough to think about it) 23:29:14 *** Prof_Frink [n=proffrin@cpc2-shep3-0-0-cust550.leic.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 23:33:31 *** Osai^2 [n=Osai@p54B34E26.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 23:34:14 <RichK67> okies... new airport design... comments please... http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=423521#423521 23:35:16 <Bjarni> heh, misread comment as commit and I thought "without looking at it? what is he on?" 23:35:18 <Bjarni> :) 23:35:45 <RichK67> commit would be nice ;) 23:38:44 <Bjarni> how about changing the 2nd loading bay (counted from the hangar) into a building that people use to board planes. A tunnel could then connect the buildings and there would not be need for any busses crossing the taxi ways 23:40:06 <RichK67> reduces it to 3 terms only :( 23:40:13 <Bjarni> yeah 23:40:44 <Bjarni> I also wonder about reserving two helipads... 23:41:04 <Bjarni> how about changing them to plane loading pads? 23:41:31 <Bjarni> actually it could make the airport much smaller to do so 23:41:51 <Bjarni> (if we keep to 3 pads only) 23:42:07 <Bjarni> making it an efficient small airport 23:42:18 <RichK67> oh yeah, i see flat 3 building at back, with 3 terms 23:43:45 <RichK67> could have 5 or 6 terms if needed... keep 3x13 size, flat 3 across top, a central small outbuilding 3 up from hangar with 2 terms either side 23:44:13 <Bjarni> yeah, that could work too 23:44:28 <RichK67> coding... 23:45:25 <Bjarni> you could make a small and a large version of this design since space is sometimes an issue, specially in late games 23:46:29 <Bjarni> it would also be nice if you can make the same long airport, just turned 90 degrees so it's long the other way (some limited space locations would like that) 23:47:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> does the system allow runways the other direction? 23:47:50 <RichK67> ok... updated piccy.... http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=423521#423521 23:48:06 <Bjarni> I think so, but we miss sprites for them or something like that 23:48:32 *** Zerot_ [i=Zerot@g35026.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 23:48:46 <RichK67> that would need all new sprites, and a separate state machine, but aircraft would be ok on it - heck, they could land diagonally if needed! 23:49:39 <RichK67> [00:47] Eddi|zuHause2: does the system allow runways the other direction? yes. any direction you like for any vehicle movement on the airport 23:49:44 <Bjarni> separate state machine? 23:49:47 *** Zerot [i=Zerot@g35026.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:49:58 <RichK67> not code, just an extra set of data 23:50:27 <Bjarni> oh, I misunderstood you. Of course it will need a new state machine to make a new airport ;) 23:50:59 <RichK67> yeah, it seems odd in a way to call the data a state machine, but thats the OTTD convention ;) 23:51:33 <RichK67> state table is probably a better description 23:51:45 <Bjarni> Darkvater decided to call it that when he coded it (as one of the first thing he ever coded in the game) 23:52:01 <Bjarni> if not the first ever 23:52:27 <Bjarni> I can remember two years ago when he was that non developer, who looked at airports 23:53:24 <Bjarni> is it possible to put fences on the taxiways? 23:53:36 <Bjarni> I mean it looks like you can place a road next to it to connect it 23:53:41 <RichK67> its generally good code, but i met a nasty quirk.... when it hits the "ENDLANDING" state, it automatically picks a terminal, whether you told it to or not 23:55:15 <RichK67> bjarni - its a sketch... it will get fences when ppl think its worth doing... (i dont want to spend time messing with the sprite combos to add fences, if everyone is going to do a "Type 3" on it ;) ) 23:56:08 <RichK67> the endlanding thing meant that it always picked from the first terminal group, first, which isnt good on a multi-group airport! 23:56:48 *** Zahl [n=SENFGURK@dslb-082-083-206-009.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["YOU! It was you wasn't it!?"] 23:57:09 <Vornicus> type 3? 23:58:08 <RichK67> i proposed an airport called a type 3, which i liked so much i started coding it, before getting killer feedback next day... wasted my time on it 23:59:05 <Vornicus> (it would be nice to have airports with multiple directions for landing planes.) 23:59:08 <Vornicus> ah 23:59:12 * Vornicus thinks