Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:09 <Ailure> I could always go download a really old version 00:00:10 <Bjarni> I never figured out anything about it except it affected road vehicles 00:00:17 <Ailure> first release of openTTD, and then look at the source 00:00:28 <Bjarni> yeah, it will be there 00:01:28 <Ailure> heh 00:01:45 <Darkvater> glx: window.h unkA and unkB were my favourite :) 00:01:48 <Ailure> I never got openTTD to compile within a IDE, but I was succeful doing it through cygwin. 00:02:03 <Ailure> I probably should set up the compiler and play around with the source. 00:02:13 <Ailure> First things I do is probably doing insane stuff 00:02:14 <Darkvater> I think the AI still has some magic variable names 00:02:37 <Ailure> such as hardcoding the game to have infinite (or really high) max speed hardcoded :P 00:02:42 <Ailure> for each vehicle 00:02:45 <Ailure> might be amusing to see 00:02:45 <Darkvater> Ailure: VS2003/2005 compile out of the box (well, after setting up libpng/zlib/directX libraries or disabling them) 00:02:57 <glx> Ailure: you just need an editor to read the source :) 00:03:02 <Sacro> Darkvater: so not entirely out of the box then :) 00:03:03 <Ailure> I was using Devc++ 00:03:10 <Ailure> followed the guide 00:03:12 <Wolf01> gnight 00:03:16 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host187-175-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [] 00:03:17 <Bjarni> Ailure: you can code in notepad if you like 00:03:19 <Ailure> no success, even with converting the project file 00:03:23 <Bjarni> it's not recommended though :P 00:03:25 <Ailure> lol 00:03:29 <Ailure> I probably do the cygwin way 00:03:29 <Darkvater> Sacro: almost :) 00:03:35 <Ailure> seems to give the least headaches 00:03:40 <Darkvater> cygwin is so damn slow... 00:03:41 <Ailure> I have VS2005 on my laptop though. 00:03:52 <Ailure> Came with it 00:03:56 * Bjarni once coded C in notepad 00:04:02 <Darkvater> I have it locally but it's a pain to compile on it; takes ages 00:04:03 <Ailure> Since the laptop was gotten from college 00:04:11 <Ailure> I'm technically loaning it, but can buy it when I got my final exam 00:04:43 <Bjarni> I didn't have anything else to write in, so I wrote like 3 pages and saved it. Once I moved it to a computer with a compiler the next day, it just compiled and worked just fine 00:04:47 <Bjarni> now that's nice coding :D 00:04:48 <Ailure> Is it the compiler itself being slow, or is it just the cygwin layer? :P 00:04:57 <Darkvater> cygwin layer 00:05:03 <Ailure> I assumed so 00:05:11 <Darkvater> gcc works just fine when run on linux 00:05:33 <Ailure> It probably would be faster 00:05:44 <Ailure> if it was somehow run as a subsystem instead through Win32 00:05:56 <Ailure> some server version of Windows 00:06:01 <glx> gcc isn't too slow with mingw/msys but VS2005 is really faster to compile 00:06:04 <Ailure> do even have a NIX subsystem according to a friend of mine 00:07:11 <Naksu> Ailure: there's an "unix for windows" 00:07:15 <Naksu> or whatever that is 00:07:50 <Naksu> no wait 00:07:54 <Naksu> windows services for unix 00:08:05 <glx> yes the other way :) 00:08:16 <Ailure> yeah there is 00:08:25 <Naksu> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Services_For_Unix 00:08:26 <Ailure> though this subsystem isn't the same thing though 00:08:28 <Ailure> a friend of mine tried it 00:08:33 <Ailure> it kinda sucks I heard 00:08:39 <Naksu> it's not supposed to be unix 00:08:44 <Ailure> comparing to using pure linux 00:08:51 <Ailure> or any other NIX 00:09:17 <Naksu> it's meant to be devoid of the usual linux toys 00:09:36 <Naksu> i've understood it's for those migrating from an unix system into a windows one 00:10:11 <Sacro> has GCC 3.3 compiler, includes and libraries (though a MS libc) 00:10:18 <Sacro> and gdb 00:10:54 <Naksu> yeah but no bash or make :) 00:11:02 <Sacro> Naksu: you can add bash 00:11:06 <Sacro> and probably add make 00:11:08 <glx> I have bash :) 00:11:21 <glx> (with msys) 00:13:11 <Ailure> msys seems oddball 00:13:15 <Ailure> I have it on my laptop though 00:13:16 <Ailure> :P 00:13:22 <Ailure> got it to work and all too 00:13:35 <Ailure> but I might try cygwin for my main desktop 00:16:08 <Bjarni> goodnight 00:16:09 *** Bjarni 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Bear [~IceChat7@pool-68-236-28-252.phil.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 01:14:04 *** Bear [~IceChat7@pool-68-236-28-252.phil.east.verizon.net] has left #openttd [] 01:20:22 *** KritiK [~Maxim@ppp85-140-207-28.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:45:44 <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7008 /trunk/player_gui.c: -Fix [FS#369]: Crash at game end when server company is bankrupt 01:51:43 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-213-249-186-213.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:05:04 <Ailure> I wonder what happens instead now 02:31:19 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B7673E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:37:37 *** PandaMojo [~chatzilla@ip72-197-231-130.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #openttd 02:37:47 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77457.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:38:53 *** Zavior [~Zavior@d195-237-7-218.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 02:38:56 *** Zaviori [~Zavior@d195-237-7-218.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:50:38 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 03:52:13 <roboboy> hello 04:02:19 *** lws1984 is now known as lws|Away 04:30:45 *** Spoco [Spoco@dsl-083-102-066-144.lohjanpuhelin.fi] has quit [] 04:35:59 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:37:30 *** Sionide [~sphinx@cpc4-norw5-0-0-cust184.pete.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:37:37 *** Nigel [~Nigel@202-154-144-216.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has joined #openttd 04:46:59 *** Sionide [~sphinx@cpc4-norw5-0-0-cust184.pete.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 05:01:28 *** DaleStan__ [~Dale@74.132.220.79] has joined #openttd 05:01:32 *** DaleStan__ is now known as DaleStan 05:07:57 *** DaleStan_ [~Dale@74.132.220.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 481 seconds] 05:16:14 *** Rubidium [~rubidium@rubidium.student.utwente.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:20:45 *** Rubidium [~rubidium@rubidium.student.utwente.nl] has 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peer] 08:02:24 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:02:39 *** Nigel [~Nigel@202-154-144-216.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has joined #openttd 08:08:01 *** Nigel_ [~Nigel@202-154-144-216.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has joined #openttd 08:13:21 <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7009 /trunk/vehicle_gui.c: - Fix (r1323, r1326): In the replace vehicle window, the left vehicle list was not drawn when an engine was not selected. 08:14:20 *** Nigel [~Nigel@202-154-144-216.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:29:54 *** LSky` [~hixscript@cc103898-a.roden1.dr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 08:36:24 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 08:36:42 *** Sionide [~sphinx@cpc4-norw5-0-0-cust184.pete.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: /quit] 08:45:23 *** MeusH [~MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has joined #openttd 08:45:28 <MeusH> hi 08:46:15 <roboboy> hello 08:49:45 <MeusH> hey roboboy 08:57:35 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat2.arachne.cz] has joined #openttd 08:59:56 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387C553.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 09:00:36 *** Purno [~Purno@5351CE6A.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 09:23:30 <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7010 /branches/utf8/ (62 files in 5 dirs): [utf8] -Sync with r6940:r7009 from trunk 09:25:33 <Darkvater> morning 09:27:06 <peter1138> mr 'vater 09:28:27 <Darkvater> wtf... 09:28:47 <Darkvater> ok, which funny guy charged 500 euros to my CC? 09:29:24 <Darkvater> I couuldn't even pay for food yesterday, had to bring it back...so embarassing :s 09:29:46 <peter1138> o_O 09:32:28 <Darkvater> damn right :( 09:37:14 <Darkvater> http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=512471#512471 09:37:15 <Darkvater> lol 09:37:25 <Darkvater> bjarni-speak ^^ 09:37:33 <peter1138> hmm? 09:37:36 <peter1138> oh 09:37:41 <peter1138> what's he trying to say? 09:38:15 <Darkvater> donnu, something about magic 09:38:36 <roboboy> !summon bjarni (for Darkvater) 09:39:08 <roboboy> its worked in #tycoon before 09:41:20 <Darkvater> bbl gotta find out who ripped me off 09:41:32 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat2.arachne.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:46:32 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-61-130.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 09:46:53 *** PandaMojo [~chatzilla@ip72-197-231-130.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.74 [Firefox 1.5.0.7/2006090918]] 09:48:12 *** Nigel_ [~Nigel@202-154-144-216.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:49:13 *** Nigel [~Nigel@202-154-144-216.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has joined #openttd 09:52:51 *** MeusH [~MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has quit [Quit: bye - quit] 10:15:08 <Darkvater> hmm should've thought...family 10:15:17 <Darkvater> they could at least warn me before ripping me off 10:16:22 *** CaptObvious [~CaptObvio@cpc2-darl2-0-0-cust28.midd.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 10:20:23 <peter1138> o_O 10:21:41 * Eddi|zuHause2 imagines a scene like in the Bundys intro :) 10:27:13 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:27:13 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:27:41 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:30:44 * roboboy bed 10:30:50 *** roboboy is now known as robobed 10:40:53 <peter1138> hmm, utf8 diff is 95KB 10:44:35 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host187-175-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 10:45:02 <Wolf01> 'lo 10:49:03 <peter1138> hi 10:50:58 <peter1138> hmm, a good portion of it is just changing the town name generator 10:51:37 <Prof_Frink> commeet eet! 10:51:40 <peter1138> heh, lines 35-1580 10:58:14 <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7011 /branches/utf8/newgrf_text.c: [utf8] -Fix (r5025): bytes are 8 bits, not 16... 10:59:51 <Wolf01> :OOO i can't compile 11:00:11 <Wolf01> i updated the tortoise SVN and now errors and lot of errors 11:00:12 <Brianetta> You shouldn't be compiling, Wolf01. use a compiler to do that for you. 11:00:31 <CaptObvious> I have a full list of UK towns at work, I could probably export that and pass it to someone here that can put it into the game as town names 11:00:51 <peter1138> why? 11:00:55 <CaptObvious> it's a list from the Ordinance Survey 11:01:02 <peter1138> so? 11:01:08 <CaptObvious> so, it's a complete list of UK towns 11:01:08 <Brianetta> Ordnance Survey 11:01:14 <CaptObvious> ya Brianetta: that too 11:01:16 <CaptObvious> :P 11:01:43 <Brianetta> I'm sure the town name generator generates a good proportion of the country's real settlement names as it is. 11:01:59 <CaptObvious> never seen one I recognise 11:02:05 <Brianetta> Although I don't know of a real Huntfingford 11:02:15 <CaptObvious> there's a Huntingdon 11:02:23 <Brianetta> CaptObvious lives up to his name 11:02:42 <CaptObvious> well you might not have known that :P 11:03:06 <peter1138> using real town names is not really useful 11:03:07 <Brianetta> Not have known about it? There's a mainline station there 11:03:20 <CaptObvious> mainline in huntingdon? 11:03:30 <CaptObvious> as far as I know, the closest main line station is peterborough 11:03:33 <peter1138> when London is a hamlet with 4 buildings... 11:03:42 <CaptObvious> east coast main line that is 11:04:40 <CaptObvious> and to change the subject - I once wrote an openttd installer in VB6 that prompted you to choose between stable and nightly, downloaded and extracted the latest one you picked and installed it along with the graphics files and game music 11:04:48 *** ChrisM87 [~ChrisM@p54AC794D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:05:00 <CaptObvious> dunno what I did with it 11:06:48 *** Belugas_Gone [~Jfranc@216.191.111.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:08:33 <peter1138> well, huntingdon has a mainline station 11:08:43 <peter1138> but i'm not sure if that's a good reason for knowing of it ;) 11:10:01 *** Belugas_Gone [~Jfranc@216.191.111.226] has joined #openttd 11:10:02 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas_Gone] by ChanServ 11:13:00 *** Sionide [~sphinx@139.222.200.5] has joined #openttd 11:13:44 <CaptObvious> off into windows so I can do some flightsim 11:13:45 <CaptObvious> cya 11:13:47 *** CaptObvious [~CaptObvio@cpc2-darl2-0-0-cust28.midd.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: Quitting!] 11:14:50 <Brianetta> peter1138: Of course it's a good reason. This is an OpenTTD channel full of train nuts. 11:18:40 *** Sionide [~sphinx@139.222.200.5] has quit [Quit: /quit] 11:23:23 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76745.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:23:52 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B7673E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:24:10 *** Trenskow [~outlet@cpe.atm2-0-72445.0x535a0976.odnxx12.customer.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 11:25:22 *** Trenskow [~outlet@cpe.atm2-0-72445.0x535a0976.odnxx12.customer.tele.dk] has quit [] 11:34:15 *** robobed [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:34:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i do not know any english stations, except paddington ;) 11:42:49 *** amix [~AmiXoamip@202.80-203-43.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 11:42:59 <amix> i just wonder about the signs 11:43:00 *** PandaMojo [~chatzilla@ip72-197-231-130.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #openttd 11:43:18 <amix> people build them to just irritate 11:43:38 <amix> will they be removed? 11:44:02 <amix> so there will be better competition level? 11:45:11 <peter1138> hmm? 11:45:36 <peter1138> do you mean signs or buy land? 11:50:57 <peter1138> Darkvater: fancy AI fixign? 11:57:27 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@galadriel.td.mw.tum.de] has joined #openttd 11:57:28 *** mode/#openttd [+o Celestar] by ChanServ 11:57:28 <Celestar> hi peops 11:58:10 * Prof_Frink peops Celestar's baloon 11:59:06 <amix> signs 11:59:10 <amix> i mean signs 11:59:32 <amix> yesterday i built a station at a forest which someone else had 11:59:38 <amix> and he didnt like it 11:59:48 <Eddi|zuHause> what do signs have to do with competition? 11:59:50 <amix> so he put signs infront of my tracks 12:00:15 <Eddi|zuHause> you DO mean the buy land tool 12:00:15 <amix> because anyone can build them to stop others from building 12:00:19 <Eddi|zuHause> NOT signs 12:00:30 <Eddi|zuHause> signs say "Eddi was here." 12:00:39 <amix> ok 12:00:44 <amix> whatever 12:00:49 <amix> it looks like signs 12:00:50 <amix> ;P 12:00:55 <amix> when its built 12:01:08 <Prof_Frink> amix: disabling buy land will just make people use diagonal tracks for the same purpose 12:01:21 <Eddi|zuHause> and such abuse of the buy land tool is usually against the server's multiplayer rules, so you should complain to the next admin about it 12:01:34 <amix> oki 12:01:47 <amix> how do i know who is the admin? 12:02:00 <Prof_Frink> Which is in fact the cheaper option 12:02:03 <amix> is there a command for it? 12:04:33 <Brianetta> amix: Not unless you're lucky enough to have an admin who uses autopilot 12:05:00 <Wolf01> [13:01:11] <Prof_Frink> amix: disabling buy land will just make people use diagonal tracks for the same purpose 12:05:00 <Wolf01> and me angry because i use them for my eyecandy feature! 12:05:48 <Brianetta> amix: Had you been playing on my server, that other player would be facing a ban 12:06:01 <amix> nice 12:06:13 <amix> and later on 12:06:22 <amix> he just built a 2 wagon train 12:06:27 <amix> blocking my trucks 12:06:45 <Brianetta> We have a term for players like that 12:06:50 <Brianetta> Antisocial pillocks 12:07:03 <amix> trains should explode or something if they reached end of the tracks 12:07:23 <Brianetta> what? no 12:07:29 <Brianetta> only if they can't stop in time 12:08:01 <amix> that would help so that people cant sabotage trucks road 12:08:06 <Prof_Frink> players should explode or something if they're wankers 12:08:33 <Brianetta> amix: It's simple. Join a server with rules you like, and with an admin who will enforce them. 12:08:42 <Brianetta> A server is made or broken by having a good admin. 12:09:05 <amix> oki, how to read the rules for the server? 12:09:28 <Brianetta> If there are rules, the admin will usually put a URL to them in the server name 12:09:35 <Brianetta> otherwise you're SOL 12:09:58 <Brianetta> If they use autopilot, rules canbe announced on join 12:10:07 <amix> i think that the dessert level of openttd is coolest one 12:10:19 <amix> ohh 12:10:22 <peter1138> temperate + ukrs ftw 12:10:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i like temperate (with snow) and dbset 12:11:05 <amix> other than this i miss 2 things. trams and highways :) 12:11:21 <peter1138> i wonder when mb will update dbsetx;l 12:11:24 <amix> Eddi|zuHause: yea, nice level also.. 12:11:27 <Brianetta> trams suck harder than Dyson cleaners 12:11:34 <Brianetta> because of the scale thing 12:11:38 <Celestar> I need someone to proof-read the bridge branch :P 12:11:43 <Prof_Frink> peter1138: with release of 2.5final probably 12:11:52 <Brianetta> They look like those sit-on trains you see at fun parks 12:11:54 <amix> trams would be cool 12:11:55 <peter1138> hmm 12:12:11 <Brianetta> Celestar: What's in it? 12:12:14 <amix> and they are more efficent than busses 12:12:16 <peter1138> bridges :) 12:12:17 <Prof_Frink> The original dbset was released with 2.0 12:12:21 <amix> so i hope it comes 12:12:24 <amix> as an option 12:13:20 <amix> when creating a server choices could be made. 12:13:25 <Eddi|zuHause> my city just expanded and restructured its tram line system 12:13:46 <amix> no trains, no trams, no subways, no airoplanes, no boats etc 12:14:15 <amix> Eddi|zuHause: nice, where do you live? 12:14:16 <Eddi|zuHause> you can already make such choices 12:14:18 *** Zavior [~Zavior@d195-237-7-218.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )] 12:14:25 *** Zaviori [~Zavior@d195-237-7-218.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )] 12:14:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i live near Halle (Saale) 12:15:38 <amix> oki 12:15:40 <amix> :) 12:15:52 <amix> but trams.. that would be nice :) 12:16:05 <Eddi|zuHause> about 12° East, 51° North 12:16:08 <amix> i see lots of others wanting it on the forums aswell 12:16:43 <amix> the tramsystem in Locomotion is great etc 12:16:53 <Brianetta> It sucks due to scale, too 12:17:00 <amix> no 12:17:02 <amix> i like it 12:17:13 <Brianetta> you mean yes, but you like it 12:17:13 <amix> retrogames have pixels 12:17:29 <amix> i idore pixels 12:17:31 <amix> :D 12:17:31 <Brianetta> They're half the height, which means eight times smaller by volume 12:17:39 <amix> thats why i have my Amiga still 12:17:46 <Brianetta> when they should be the same size 12:18:09 <amix> well, its done nicely in Locomotion 12:18:27 <amix> i like it when it comes to 1990s etc 12:18:31 *** Zavior [~Zavior@d195-237-7-218.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 12:18:35 <Eddi|zuHause> our trams are narrow gauge, and i am pretty sure they are smaller than trains 12:18:38 <amix> you get these lowfloor trams etc 12:18:54 <peter1138> Celestar: fancy making a diff against trunk? easier to see then ;) 12:18:56 <Brianetta> Eddi: Not half as high, half as long and half as wide? 12:19:02 <amix> Eddi|zuHause: here in Oslo, trams, subway and trains got same track size 12:19:21 <Eddi|zuHause> no, not half ;) 12:20:04 <Prof_Frink> The Croydon tram tracks look like something approaching full sized railways 12:20:10 <amix> http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/osl/oslo.htm 12:20:16 <amix> thats Oslo 12:20:34 <Eddi|zuHause> the height might be roughly the same, but they are shorter and less wide (what is the word for that?( 12:20:38 * Prof_Frink clambers through the ssh tunnel to get a photo 12:20:58 <Prof_Frink> dammit, forgot my camera 12:21:25 * peter1138 ponders having a lunch break today 12:21:37 <Celestar> peter1138: svn diff trunk/ branches/bridge/ ? 12:21:52 <peter1138> no 12:21:55 * Prof_Frink breaks peter1138's lunch 12:22:11 <amix> our subway cars wouldnt fit into London subway system etc 12:22:13 <Eddi|zuHause> hey, today is holiday ;) 12:22:21 <amix> half of the roof would fall of 12:22:22 <peter1138> :( 12:22:28 <Eddi|zuHause> at least in half of germany ;) 12:22:40 <Eddi|zuHause> the other half has a holiday tomorrow ;) 12:23:03 <amix> oh no.. is it halloween today? 12:23:21 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host187-175-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [] 12:23:26 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it is "Reformation Day" 12:23:31 <amix> oki 12:23:51 <Eddi|zuHause> where Martin Luther proclaimed his 95 Thesis against the catholic church 12:24:04 <amix> http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/euromet.htm 12:24:10 <amix> thats a nice site 12:24:25 <amix> map of all cities in europe, asia, america and oceania etc 12:24:34 <amix> subways mostly that is 12:24:51 <Eddi|zuHause> resulting a split in the church, that has been going on for 500 years now 12:25:09 <amix> i dont believe in church ;P 12:25:19 <amix> i believe in you and me 12:25:50 <Eddi|zuHause> lots of wars have been fought about this 12:25:56 <amix> what if the world became like japan 12:26:06 <Eddi|zuHause> the worst one is the "30 years war" 12:26:19 <amix> where religion is seen as something that humans made up 12:26:28 <Eddi|zuHause> which mainly destroyed the entire infrastructure of germany 12:26:42 <Eddi|zuHause> in the (1618-1648) 12:27:01 *** Neonox [~Neonox@ip-80-226-141-163.vodafone-net.de] has joined #openttd 12:27:06 <amix> Norway is as rich as Japan 12:27:25 <amix> but the goverment dosent use money at all ;P 12:27:54 <Eddi|zuHause> now, the north and east of germany is mainly protestantic, while the south and west is mainly catholic 12:27:55 <amix> Norway got economy to rise everything... 12:28:08 <Zavior> Blah 12:28:10 <amix> but nothing happends 12:28:14 <amix> ;P 12:28:37 <Zavior> Finland is mostly lutherian(spelling?) country, yet we dont have holydays! :I 12:28:45 <Zavior> -y +i 12:28:54 *** Neonox [~Neonox@ip-80-226-141-163.vodafone-net.de] has quit [] 12:29:02 <amix> :) 12:29:09 <Noldo> which holydays? 12:29:16 <Brianetta> It's All Saint's Eve 12:29:19 <Brianetta> tonight 12:29:37 <amix> north of Norway dont have railway connection for example 12:29:38 <Brianetta> so why is my goth club putting on its Hallowe'en bash on the 4th? 12:29:43 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host187-175-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 12:29:51 <Eddi|zuHause> tomorrow is All Saints (in the other half of germany) 12:29:53 <Brianetta> That's like celebrating Christmas Eve a week late 12:30:21 <amix> in norway 93% dosent go to the churches anymore 12:30:22 <Eddi|zuHause> All Saints is a catholic holiday 12:30:46 <Eddi|zuHause> so it is only celebrated in the mostly catholic parts 12:30:54 <Brianetta> That's fine. It's followed inthe UK by Guy Fawkes' Night, which is decidedly protestant. 12:30:58 <amix> in churches on sundays there might be 2 or 3 people in each church 12:31:57 <Eddi|zuHause> well, that is like in most other countries, amix. 12:32:03 <peter1138> gah, fucking c# 12:32:29 <Eddi|zuHause> that is much more information than we need ;) 12:32:47 <peter1138> void function(void) { -> void function() { :? 12:32:48 <peter1138> :/ 12:32:48 <Tobin> peter1138: Now, now, don't take it out on the language. 12:33:42 <Eddi|zuHause> what would be the problem with that? 12:34:34 <amix> Eddi|zuHause: when people stop believing in god,.. thats the day when peace will become a reality. Until then, I dont see any end to wars :( 12:35:02 <peter1138> well i get used to using void with c ;p 12:35:15 <Eddi|zuHause> you cannot stop believing 12:35:26 <Eddi|zuHause> you always believe in something 12:35:30 <amix> its like gigantic football matches.. or politics thats controlled by humans ideology and dreams 12:35:45 <amix> Eddi|zuHause: sure,.. i believe in you and me 12:35:46 <Eddi|zuHause> and that something will always conflict with the something of someone else 12:36:03 <amix> i believe in that my friends have a nice time 12:36:58 <amix> but to believe in dreams that were created 1000 years ago is just stoneage... people should start to care more about each others rather than fighting for dreams which isnt a reality at all. 12:37:46 <amix> believing in peoples hearts is good 12:38:01 <amix> believing in something that dosen exsists is just not good 12:39:16 <amix> and i have nothing against those which believes and are into some sort of religion. i just want people to be more open minded,.. to see that life is life and no god can control it. 12:40:26 <amix> or is god devil then? since he sends earthquakes, floods, trains crashing, boats sinking etc.. 12:41:29 <amix> humans have soul and thats whats most important. go forward, be nice and help others... 12:43:20 *** Zaviori [~Zavior@d195-237-7-218.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 12:45:05 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat2.arachne.cz] has joined #openttd 12:45:20 <amix> and now its snowing outside 12:45:26 <amix> ;) 12:48:00 <Celestar> peter1138: why not? 12:48:11 *** Sionide [~sphinx@cpc4-norw5-0-0-cust184.pete.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 12:48:15 *** Sionide [~sphinx@cpc4-norw5-0-0-cust184.pete.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:48:48 *** Sionide [~sphinx@cpc4-norw5-0-0-cust184.pete.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 12:49:24 *** Zavior [~Zavior@d195-237-7-218.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:49:55 *** Zavior [~Zavior@d195-237-7-218.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 12:51:08 <peter1138> because that doesn't show you the differences 12:51:21 <peter1138> you need to merge from the branch to trunk, then svn diff that 12:51:33 <peter1138> or maybe there's some other way... 12:52:34 <Eddi|zuHause> amix: "i just want people to" and that is exactly the point, you cannot dictate people what to believe 12:53:01 <Eddi|zuHause> and as long as you want to, that will be the reason for wars... 13:00:35 *** PandaMojo [~chatzilla@ip72-197-231-130.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.74 [Firefox 1.5.0.7/2006090918]] 13:01:59 <Celestar> peter1138: good point :) 13:02:13 <Celestar> hmmm 13:02:21 <Celestar> opening a 900MB file in vim is slightly slow 13:05:08 <peter1138> ouch 13:05:15 <peter1138> i hope that's not the diff ;p 13:05:50 *** Sionide [~sphinx@cpc4-norw5-0-0-cust184.pete.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:06:02 <Eddi|zuHause> a 900MB diff of a 5MB program ^^ 13:08:58 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause: you should see the size of the latin15 -> utf8 language changes... 13:09:27 <Eddi|zuHause> well, at most you remove every single line, and replace it with one other line 13:09:46 <Eddi|zuHause> which makes it twice as big as the program itself 13:10:08 <Brianetta> Eddi|zuHause: It gets bigger if you only change every *other* line 13:10:10 <Brianetta> try it 13:10:17 <Brianetta> the context lines can make it six times bigger 13:11:08 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... if the diff is somewhat intelligent, it merges those contexts 13:12:43 <Eddi|zuHause> but you are right, i did not consider the overhead 13:13:34 *** Tron_ [ZliTOW3s@nat-1.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #openttd 13:33:10 *** Turski [~tarmo@dsl-kpogw1-fe21df00-2.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 13:35:01 <Celestar> peter1138: no it is not a 900MB diff 13:35:24 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: :P 13:35:32 <SpComb> Celestar: it loads the entire file into mem 13:35:49 <Celestar> SpComb: the problem is the stupid network cabling 13:35:52 <Celestar> I'm stuck with 100BaseT 13:36:09 <SpComb> you are loading a 900MB file into memory over a network? hf 13:36:24 <Celestar> well, it took 90 seconds 13:36:42 <Eddi|zuHause> well. 12 MB a second... 13:36:51 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: not 12 13:37:06 <Celestar> 100BaseT is 100.000.000 bits per second 13:37:38 <Eddi|zuHause> !calc 10^8/8/1024^2 13:37:39 <_42_> Eddi|zuHause: 11.9209289550; 13:37:40 <Celestar> that makes 11.92 MB/sec 13:37:49 <Celestar> but you have about 4% IP overhead 13:38:03 <Eddi|zuHause> !calc 10^8/8/1024^2*0.96 13:38:03 <_42_> Eddi|zuHause: 11.4440917968; 13:38:11 <Eddi|zuHause> so, 11MB 13:38:14 <Celestar> yeah 13:38:19 <Celestar> that;s about what I get :P 13:38:56 <Eddi|zuHause> !m 900/11 13:39:02 <Eddi|zuHause> !calc 900/11 13:39:03 <_42_> Eddi|zuHause: 81.8181818181; 13:39:06 <Eddi|zuHause> wrong bot ;) 13:39:21 <CIA-1> celestar * r7012 /branches/bridge/ (62 files in 5 dirs): [bridge] - Sync with r6939:7011 from trunk 13:40:03 <Celestar> gaaah 13:40:16 <Celestar> r5361 breaks --stop-on-copy 13:41:43 <Celestar> C BUGS 13:41:47 <Celestar> :P 13:42:36 <Celestar> WTF? 13:44:21 <Celestar> peter1138: http://www.fvfischer.de/ottd/bridge_merge_draft.diff 13:46:38 <peter1138> 404 :/ 13:47:48 <KUDr_wrk> i have 403: You don't have permission to access the requested object. It is either read-protected or not readable by the server 13:48:02 <peter1138> oh, yes, 403 13:48:10 <peter1138> i didn't read it ;p 13:49:08 <Celestar> wtf? 13:49:47 <Celestar> reload 13:50:11 <peter1138> ooh, conflicts :) 13:50:21 <Celestar> a fair few 13:50:27 <Celestar> busy reading through them 13:50:37 <peter1138> conflicts == not synced properly 13:50:58 <Celestar> you think so? 13:51:02 <Celestar> do it better :) 13:51:02 <peter1138> well yes 13:51:23 * Celestar tries harder 13:51:59 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-61-130.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Tobin] 13:52:36 <peter1138> well it could be any sync 13:52:48 <peter1138> not necessarily the last one 13:52:53 <Celestar> well, as "BUGS" is posing a problem .. 13:52:57 <KUDr_wrk> some forgotten rev? 13:53:38 <Celestar> please help searching :) 13:53:48 <peter1138> hmm, fun :) 13:54:13 *** Spoco [~Spoco@dsl-062-197-163-81.lohjanpuhelin.fi] has joined #openttd 13:54:36 *** Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AWAY 13:55:29 <Celestar> suggestions? 13:55:50 <CIA-1> tron * r7013 /trunk/ (data/openttd.grf gfxinit.c table/files.h): Add glyphs for the interpunct. This is mainly useful for the catalan translation 13:56:16 <Celestar> I think Tron_ can help us as well :P 13:56:33 <Celestar> bbl 13:56:35 <Celestar> meeting 13:56:39 <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: make diffs from your syncing and compare them with new diffs from the same rev range 13:56:51 <CIA-1> tron * r7014 /trunk/lang/catalan.txt: Make use of the interpunct in the catalan translation: Change l.l to l?4?3l 13:57:27 <Tron_> s/$GARBAGE/l·l/ 13:57:35 <peter1138> ahh 13:58:32 *** Zaviori [~Zavior@d195-237-7-218.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )] 13:59:15 <MiHaMiX> Tron_: PM 14:01:17 *** Frostregen [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-159-028.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 14:03:02 <peter1138> tron for prime minister? 14:09:44 *** Hagbarddenstore [~hagbard@90-224-32-143-no95.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 14:10:14 <peter1138> Celestar: i've done a diff and there are no conflicts 14:10:57 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/o/bridge2.diff 14:11:16 <peter1138> so the syncs have been fine 14:13:33 <Celestar> peter1138: ? 14:13:40 <Celestar> how did you merge? 14:13:45 *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas 14:14:57 <Tron_> just to get this straigt: have you looked at your own diff? 14:15:05 <Tron_> especially the file "BUGS" 14:16:34 <peter1138> what about it? 14:16:43 <Tron_> +- THE SAVEGAME FORMAT WILL CHANGE, DO NOT OVERWRITE YOUR PRECIOUS SAVEGAMES! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED! 14:16:52 <Tron_> you are serious to merge this to trunk? 14:17:00 <peter1138> heh 14:17:08 <peter1138> 1) of course it will change 14:17:25 <peter1138> 2) this is just to get a complete lot of changes in one go 14:17:52 <CIA-1> tron * r7015 /trunk/lang/catalan.txt: Revert r7014. Requested by MiHaMiX 14:18:13 <peter1138> hmm 14:19:24 *** Maedhros [~jc@host81-157-252-95.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 14:19:40 <peter1138> WT2 needs a conflict system or something 14:20:02 <Tron_> it handles it perfectly fine 14:20:09 <peter1138> i assume that's the issue with 7014 14:20:11 <Tron_> there's no technical reason 14:20:25 <peter1138> oh 14:21:10 *** SchoolLite [~Star@StarLite.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 14:22:09 <Tron_> now something very stupid will happen 14:23:56 <CIA-1> miham * r7016 /trunk/lang/catalan.txt: Revert the revert, since I didn't request that, Tron must've misunderstood me :-( 14:24:10 <peter1138> wahey 14:24:18 * peter1138 ponders reverting something for fun 14:24:26 *** StarLite [~Star@StarLite.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 481 seconds] 14:24:30 <MiHaMiX> Tron_: no, that very stupid thing you referred already happened by then... 14:24:33 <MiHaMiX> [[15:20]] <CIA-1> tron * r7015 /trunk/lang/catalan.txt: Revert r7014. Requested by MiHaMiX 14:25:40 <peter1138> Tron_: btw, do you remember the state of the tile clearing bug listed? i seem to remember that one being diagnosed, and i've not experienced it 14:26:47 <Tron_> the internal encoding of "no bridge" wasn't always 0 14:27:02 <Tron_> ok, more complicated 14:27:13 <Tron_> there was a point in time when i saved the piece 14:27:19 <Tron_> it now gets calculated on the fly 14:27:32 <Celestar> you lost me 14:27:34 <Tron_> this also contained the information if there is a bridge at all 14:27:37 <peter1138> ah 14:27:44 <Tron_> 0 already was piece 0 14:27:48 <Tron_> so i used 7 for nothing 14:28:00 <Tron_> so if you cleared a non-bridgeable tile 14:28:18 <Tron_> like the last tree on a tile died 14:28:31 <Tron_> you suddenly had a bridge tile there 14:28:34 <hylje> :o 14:28:44 <Tron_> because just the "normal" part of the tile was rewritten to "clear tile" 14:28:52 <Tron_> and the bits representing a bridge remained 14:29:01 <Tron_> for a tree these bits didn't matter 14:29:02 <Celestar> I have not experienced this problem in 100s of hours of testing 14:29:03 <peter1138> right 14:29:04 <Tron_> an normally were 0 14:29:20 <Tron_> but suddenly 0 on a clear tile meant bridge piece 0 above 14:29:33 <Tron_> you can't experience it in the same way anymore 14:29:45 <Tron_> because 0 now means no bridge 14:29:51 <Tron_> the piece isn't stored anymore 14:29:58 <peter1138> right 14:30:05 <peter1138> but there could be a possible problem in the future 14:30:15 <peter1138> if some of feature uses those same bits and they're not cleared 14:30:26 <Tron_> you just have to make sure when a non-bridgable tile becomes a bridgable tile the bits are 0 14:30:42 <Tron_> this should normally be the case, because all unused bits for a tile should be 0 14:30:53 <peter1138> Celestar: there's a screenshot of it somewhere :) 14:30:59 <Tron_> yes, something else could use the bits 14:31:13 <Tron_> then it could become unnice 14:31:26 <Tron_> otherwise you don't want MakeClear() to clear the bits 14:31:45 <Celestar> if $SOMETHING_NEW sets bits, $SOMETHING_NEW should clear bits as well? 14:31:52 <Tron_> maybe you just change the type from one bridgable tile to another 14:32:09 <Tron_> MakeClear() neither sets nore resets these bits 14:32:20 <Tron_> s/nore/nor/ 14:32:52 <Celestar> so what do we need to do? 14:32:54 <peter1138> because it can't 14:33:24 <peter1138> it needs to be cleared only when going from Can't-Have-Bridge to Can-Have-Bridge 14:33:37 *** Turski [~tarmo@dsl-kpogw1-fe21df00-2.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:33:42 <peter1138> hmm 14:33:54 <peter1138> or not quite 14:34:14 <peter1138> needs to be cleared when removing a tile that uses those bits, but we don't have a cleanup function for that 14:34:21 <peter1138> or do we.. 14:34:21 <peter1138> *sigh* 14:34:34 <peter1138> of course we do 14:34:38 * peter1138 shuts up and goes to sleep 14:34:57 * peter1138 reverts his irc ;p 14:35:26 <Celestar> so what should be done_ 14:35:27 <Celestar> ? 14:39:36 <Belugas> in industry_cmd.c:956, a check is done on IT_FARM in order to see if farm fields need to be planted. Question, why is it the only place in the code that does not check for IT_FARM2? Even back to r1 and further beyond 14:42:32 <Belugas> IT_FARM_2, actually 14:43:59 <Belugas> it's like the sub arctic farm is not allowed plant fields when in production 14:44:07 <Belugas> so, me scratches head 14:44:21 <Tron_> this is a very interesting question 14:44:32 <Tron_> and i bet it has a very interesting answer 14:44:35 <Tron_> you just have to find it 14:44:51 <Celestar> does that mean "nothing" 14:45:02 <Belugas> been looking for that for 2 days now... 14:45:22 <Belugas> thanks anyway ;) 14:45:50 <Tron_> most probably it's simply a bug 14:46:18 *** smithj [smithj@dyn-62-56-99-181.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:46:31 <smithj> hi 14:47:04 <Tron_> Belugas: isn't IT_FARM_2 the sub-tropical farm? 14:47:10 <peter1138> it is 14:47:20 <Tron_> Celestar: this was directed at Belugas 14:47:53 <Tron_> i guess the answer to the bridge question is "ignore it" 14:48:00 <Tron_> nothing else uses these bits 14:48:11 * Celestar goes ignoring it 14:48:19 <Tron_> so for all correct tile transformations the bits are correct 14:48:59 <Tron_> if these bits should get used for something else then a solution has to be found 14:49:30 <Celestar> ay 14:50:04 <peter1138> perhaps replace the BUGS entry with a note to that effect 14:50:13 <peter1138> (where it'll be promptly ignored :)) 14:50:26 * Celestar punches matlab 14:50:31 <Tron_> though i find it interesting that i saw somewhere somebody (can't remember right now) added another byte to the map 14:50:37 <Tron_> s/map/Tile/ 14:50:44 <Celestar> Tron_: only in branches/newhouses 14:51:02 <Tron_> it's at 8 bytes long 14:51:09 <Tron_> that's as long as a IPv6 address! 14:51:16 <Celestar> er 14:51:16 <CIA-1> maedhros * r7017 /branches/newhouses/ (54 files in 5 dirs): [NewHouses] -Sync with trunk r6966:7016 14:51:25 <Tron_> hm, not 14:51:27 <Celestar> sorry but an IPv6 address is 128 bits 14:51:28 <Tron_> half as long 14:51:32 <Tron_> but still 14:51:34 <peter1138> heh 14:51:42 <Tron_> that's a /big/ number 14:52:03 <Celestar> we could just compute every possible combination and give it an index *runs away* 14:52:08 <peter1138> heh 14:52:27 <smithj> Can viaducts be built in openTTD...? 14:52:30 <Tron_> the largest maps just have 2^24 tile 14:52:31 <Tron_> s 14:52:33 <peter1138> yes 14:52:53 <Celestar> mesa no tink that we 8 bytes is that very much 14:52:54 <peter1138> but not aqueducts, which is probably what you mean 14:52:54 <Tron_> that's 2^40 less tiles than 8byte tiles have combinations 14:53:04 <smithj> yes, i meant those :) 14:53:17 <smithj> is there a plan to add them...? 14:53:34 <peter1138> only vague ones in my head that no-one else has seen 14:53:38 <peter1138> (for their sanity) 14:53:42 <smithj> heh 14:53:57 <smithj> would be a nice feature imho 14:54:03 *** Turski [~tarmo@dsl-kpogw1-fe21df00-2.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 14:54:42 <Celestar> Tron_: I kind of fail to see your point? 14:54:56 <Tron_> i fail to see why more could be needed 14:55:13 * peter1138 idly wonders why MS consider line wrapping (which they call word wrap) to be an advanced feature 14:55:17 <Tron_> i see the point if you want more distinct things on one tile 14:55:27 <Tron_> like an explicit rail tail and above an explicit bridge tile 14:55:27 <Celestar> if all bits are used, we need to 1) add bits to store more features, 2) store the info somewhere else, 3) don't add the feature 14:55:59 <Celestar> the questions is: why store all that info in the map in the first the place? 14:56:26 <Celestar> it seems that we dump any info we don't know where to store into _m 14:56:51 <Tron_> i have to say i'm a bit proud ottd only uses 8bytes (rather 7.25, but in memory it's 8) 14:57:05 <Tron_> i tried to create a 2048x2048 map with Simutrans 14:57:10 <Celestar> hm.. 14:57:18 <Celestar> m1, m2, m2, m3, m4, m5, m6 14:57:27 <Celestar> oh 14:57:29 <Tron_> luckily it has a projected memory requirement display right in the creation window 14:57:31 <Celestar> t&h 14:57:46 <Frostregen> was around 2 gb? =) 14:57:47 <Tron_> my jaw dropped right through the floor upon seeing the memory requirement 14:57:48 <Celestar> Tron_: and? 14:57:56 <peter1138> so how much does it need for that? 14:57:59 <Tron_> Frostregen: yes, somewhere around that 14:58:03 <Celestar> I think 2GB are no longer Jaw-Dropping in 2006 14:58:04 <peter1138> ... 14:58:14 <Frostregen> for this kind of game...yes 14:58:19 <peter1138> that's a bit much 14:58:32 <peter1138> what does it do, store code in there? 14:58:38 <amix> hello 14:58:41 <amix> how are you? 14:58:42 <smithj> hi 14:58:45 <Celestar> the question is: what can we do? 14:58:58 <Celestar> the question 2 is: how do I compile this CRAP :s 14:59:02 <amix> its snowing here 14:59:03 <amix> :) 14:59:25 <Celestar> define here? 14:59:34 <Tron_> compile what? 14:59:35 <amix> Oslo 14:59:37 <amix> Norway 14:59:38 <Celestar> Tron_: DX 14:59:45 <Tron_> DX? 14:59:51 <Tron_> DirectX? 14:59:55 <Celestar> google for IBM Open Data Explorer 15:00:13 <peter1138> Tron_: the extra data for town houses is used for eye-candy features, basically 15:00:20 <amix> i love IBM 15:00:21 <amix> :) 15:00:25 <Tron_> Celestar> I think 2GB are no longer Jaw-Dropping in 20 <--- i consider this much memory way over the top 15:00:44 <peter1138> we also have this extra data for vehicles and stations, but that can be stored off-map, fortunately 15:00:50 <Celestar> Tron_: well, I'm just wondering on how to store a 80GB-computation ... 15:00:56 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat2.arachne.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:56 <Tron_> especially in contrast to the ottd map, which uses mere 32MB for this size 15:01:07 <Celestar> peter1138: why not store the eye-candy stuff off-map as well? 15:01:24 <hylje> :o 15:01:25 <peter1138> because town houses don't have off-map data 15:01:34 <Tron_> Celestar: you're doing numerical analysis on gazillion of data points on a compute cluster 15:01:37 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat2.arachne.cz] has joined #openttd 15:01:40 <Tron_> not run a game on a PC 15:01:44 <Celestar> peter1138: when last I looked, we were able to change that :P 15:02:02 <Celestar> Tron_: well, I bought an additional GB of memory for my laptop to play CIV IV 15:02:11 <peter1138> hmm 15:02:14 <peter1138> you could 15:02:14 <Celestar> and the CIV IV "huge" maps are about 160x160 15:02:38 <Zavior> Huge maps are 15:02:40 <Zavior> Big enough 15:02:46 <Zavior> And too tedios to play on :P 15:02:51 <Zavior> I once tried 15:03:01 <Zavior> I just had normal speed on.. 15:03:08 <Zavior> The game ended before I could win 15:03:11 <Zavior> (conquest) 15:03:14 <peter1138> hmm 15:03:36 <peter1138> i suppose you could replace the town index of a house tile with a house index 15:03:40 <Celestar> Zavior: Huge Maps + Marathon game speed 15:03:44 <Celestar> peter1138: yes 15:03:46 <peter1138> but then you become limited in the number of houses 15:03:52 <Zavior> Celestar, yeah 15:04:05 <Zavior> Usually I just play on epic/continents/standard :) 15:04:08 <Celestar> peter1138: how limited? 2^32 ... that ought to be enough for every one 15:04:13 <peter1138> 32 bit index? 15:04:16 <peter1138> hmm 15:04:16 <Zavior> Struggling to beat emperor >_> 15:04:22 <CIA-1> maedhros * r7018 /branches/newhouses/newgrf_callbacks.h: [NewHouses] -Codechange: Update the comments for callbacks that have been implemented. 15:04:26 <peter1138> i suppose you could if you moved it all off-map 15:04:32 <Tron_> peter1138: what does a "newhouse" house store? 15:04:38 <Tron_> i can't imagine more than 4 bytes 15:04:40 <Celestar> Tron_: new things :P 15:04:50 <Tron_> that 4 billion/milliard combinations 15:04:51 *** Progman [~progman@p5091D883.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:05:07 <Celestar> its 2^32 combos :P 15:05:41 <hylje> :o 15:06:08 <peter1138> hmm, 5 bits of trigger information, 5 bits of animation frame (this uses the lift bits) and apparently 8 bits of random data 15:06:12 <Tron_> <Celestar> Tron_: well, I bought an additional GB of memory for my laptop to play CIV IV <--- they released a patch which made the game run quite a bit smoother 15:06:26 <Tron_> i'm very sure they're doing something wrong 15:06:26 <peter1138> hmm 15:06:39 <Belugas> tron, houses are using quite a lot of bits, in fact. newgrf houses that is 15:06:46 <Celestar> Tron_: well yes, it only needs about 700MB now ... 15:06:57 <peter1138> the question is, do they need to... hmm 15:06:57 <Belugas> in fact, on all the 8 byttes used, only 4 or 5 bits are reamining free... 15:06:57 <Tron_> the graphics aren't that impressive to run bad on common hardware 15:07:11 <Celestar> Tron_: the game is python based .... :P 15:07:37 <Tron_> they should use Boo 15:08:00 <Celestar> Boo? 15:08:01 <Tron_> it avoids the main single most design flaw in Python 15:08:07 <Tron_> it has explicit typing 15:08:35 <Tron_> you can read pages of python code without getting a remote clue what it does 15:08:35 <hylje> civ4 is extensively moddable in py and xml 15:08:45 *** smithj [smithj@dyn-62-56-99-181.dslaccess.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 15:08:53 <Tron_> because you don't and can't have a remote idea what gets put in there 15:08:59 <peter1138> hmm 15:09:02 <Celestar> does newhouses use m3? 15:09:20 <Celestar> the CIV4 modding is difficult because of the lack of documentation 15:09:21 <peter1138> yes 15:09:34 <Celestar> peter1138: so how many bits does newhouses add? 15:09:50 <peter1138> 14 i think 15:09:52 <Belugas> 1 byte and 6 remaining bits of extra 15:09:52 <Tron_> "Real men don't use manuals" (Title screen of one SNES (NES?) game) 15:09:57 <peter1138> extra to a byte and another byte 15:10:00 <Tron_> the game doesn't come with a manual 15:10:12 <peter1138> hmm 15:10:17 <Celestar> peter1138: what about the 6 bits we have left in m3? 15:10:30 <peter1138> all n64 games i've got show you how to hold the controller... 15:10:38 <Celestar> newhouses need 20(!!) additional bits? 15:10:49 <Tron_> do these 14 bits overrule the value in m4? 15:10:55 <Maedhros> Celestar: there's a list of what's being used here (temporarily): http://dev.gentoo.org/~maedhros/openttd/maparray_layout.txt 15:11:05 <Celestar> Maedhros: ah thanks :) 15:11:29 <peter1138> that's what i was looking for :)( 15:12:21 <Celestar> Maedhros: ah .. what is this "random bits" stuff ? 15:12:36 <peter1138> randomizing data 15:12:45 <peter1138> for building variations 15:13:04 <Tron_> m7 0 and 1 15:13:12 <Tron_> aren't they directly correlated? 15:13:13 <Celestar> there are 256 variants of a house in there? 15:13:16 <Tron_> i.e. equal 15:13:24 <Celestar> Tron_: nope. 15:13:47 <Tron_> why choose a destination without moving? 15:13:57 <Tron_> why move when not knowing where to? 15:14:20 <peter1138> that'll save a bit :) 15:14:23 <Maedhros> Tron_: it's been like that since TTD, but it does seem redundant 15:14:53 * Celestar somehow doesn't like the Object<->Map Link via m2 15:14:54 <peter1138> question 15:15:00 <Tron_> hm 15:15:08 <Tron_> i just see m1 bit 7 used for this right now 15:15:17 <Celestar> "Could not fetch metadata for CD" uh huh 15:15:44 <Celestar> ... could have told you before 15:15:53 <Tron_> Celestar: you need some kind of link 15:16:08 <Celestar> Tron_: I know, but I am not sure whether this is best way to do it 15:16:11 <Tron_> well, you could put it in a TileIndex/Object map 15:16:40 <Celestar> for example 15:16:56 <Belugas> m3[6] will be used to add one bit to m4(house type) in order to have 511 total new houses types 15:17:01 <Tron_> this way you could pythonise the whole map 15:17:03 * Celestar votes for storing everything in a relational database :) 15:17:12 <Tron_> (everthing in Python is a hashmap) 15:17:18 <hylje> mm.. python 15:17:35 <peter1138> bah 15:17:35 <hylje> Celestar: sqlite! 15:17:36 <Belugas> file:///h:/OpenTTD/New_Houses/maparray_layout.html 15:17:37 <peter1138> customer :( 15:17:43 <peter1138> nice url ;p 15:17:44 <hylje> Belugas: AAA 15:17:50 <Celestar> Belugas: I have limited access to your H: drive 15:17:53 <Belugas> damsn.... 15:17:54 <Belugas> http://devs.openttd.org/~belugas/maparray_layout.html 15:18:06 <Tron_> http://bash.org/?400459 15:18:14 <Belugas> http://devs.openttd.org/~belugas/landscape.html 15:18:28 <hylje> python on planes 15:18:44 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-213-249-186-213.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 15:19:12 *** Nigel [~Nigel@202-154-144-216.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:19:21 <Tron_> this raises intersting questions: what do you want to store in the map? 15:19:30 <hylje> references 15:19:47 <Tron_> you don't need to if you use the TileIndex as reference 15:19:56 <Tron_> hash maps have a mean access of O(1) 15:20:00 <Tron_> for big values of 1 15:20:11 <Celestar> Tron_: TileType type; void *data; 15:20:26 <Tron_> for pathfinding you probably don't want to do a hash lookup per tile 15:20:48 <hylje> all performance-critical stuff should be shortcutted, yes 15:21:07 <Tron_> on the other hand the age of a house could very well be put /somewhere/ 15:21:16 <Celestar> wtf ... what is the past tense of "to brake" 15:21:39 <Celestar> Tron_: for example in an object called "House" 15:21:41 <Tron_> though we don't have an explicit object list for houses, but that's just a minor detail 15:23:01 <Tron_> Celestar: dict.leo.org, brake, click on the "i", choose "Konjugation/Deklination" 15:23:16 <Prof_Frink> Celestar: Braked. 15:23:38 <Tron_> hm, well, works just for german, bah 15:23:43 *** Turski [~tarmo@dsl-kpogw1-fe21df00-2.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:23:44 <hylje> achtung 15:23:46 <Tron_> english only has ethymology 15:23:57 <Prof_Frink> 'Broke' is wrong, but I use it anyway. 15:24:17 <Prof_Frink> Euthymology? The study of eucalyptus toothpaste? 15:24:41 <Celestar> we could add an "House" object inside the "Town" object 15:24:58 <Maedhros> broke can be right too; it just depends on what you meant by brake ;) 15:25:57 <Prof_Frink> Maedhros: broke come from break, not brake. 15:26:28 * Maedhros looks in horror as his english language skills desert him 15:27:38 <Celestar> but ok .. lets see we extend stuff to 8 data bytes 15:28:15 <Tron_> maybe - just maybe, if you hit me really hard - you could persuade me to extend to 16 bytes 15:28:26 <Celestar> hm? 15:28:33 <Tron_> but >100 bytes per tile like Simutrans ... just over me dead, cold body 15:28:49 <Celestar> but what about having an TileIndex -> object map? 15:28:50 <hylje> go for 200 bytes per tile 15:29:07 <Celestar> what do we need 16 bytes for at the time being? 15:29:27 <Celestar> we are talking about 8 (plus type and height) 15:30:21 <Celestar> although I still vote for: byte type; byte height; uint64 data; but that is just me 15:30:49 <Tron_> 10 bytes is suboptimal 15:30:58 <Celestar> yeah 15:31:06 <Tron_> either 8 or 16 15:31:35 <Darkvater> 12:50 <@peter1138> Darkvater: fancy AI fixign? << yeah right. unless it crashes I don't really care 15:31:37 <Celestar> in memory, but on disk (and in file transfer) it matters little. then again, gzip does a nice job if we have 40 bits set to 0 at the end of each 15:32:01 <Celestar> uint64 data1; uint64 data2; :P 15:32:33 <Celestar> Tron_: so you would prefer 16 over 9 ? 15:32:38 <Tron_> Darkvater: if you are talking about the diff on the forum: looks a bit like random changes to me 15:33:07 <Tron_> in fact random and wrong changes 15:34:30 <Tron_> 116bytes per tile 15:34:40 <peter1138> hmm? 15:34:43 <Tron_> Simutrans 15:34:48 <peter1138> Darkvater: ah, well, it's totally busted... 15:34:55 <Tron_> so it's "only" 500MB for a 2kx2k map 15:35:04 <Darkvater> donnu what I am talking about 15:35:10 <Celestar> you are evading my question :P 15:35:20 <Tron_> what do you need 9 bytes for? 15:35:21 <peter1138> Belugas: there are two town triggers listed, why is there space for 6? 15:35:24 <Darkvater> if I were talking about the forum thingie I would first ask him to seperate the constant-changing and actual changes 15:35:46 <hylje> how far is the stacked tiles support 15:35:53 <Tron_> if you have a sensible reason to need 9 bytes, then ok, so be it 15:35:54 <hylje> ie. tiles top of each other 15:36:15 <Tron_> hylje: nil 15:36:21 <hylje> :< 15:36:27 <Celestar> Tron_: well, check the newhouses branch 15:36:37 <hylje> i wants subway! elevated rail! 15:37:01 <Celestar> ok so a map rewrite :P 15:37:01 <Belugas> peter1138, don't know yet. still searching the triggers, as you know :) Thing is, that's exactly what the patch is using 15:37:03 <Maedhros> peter1138: because i was following ttdpatch's lead... 15:37:29 <Tron_> afk 15:37:30 <Darkvater> news from egladil ? 15:37:39 <Maedhros> in other words, no good reason unless Csaboka decides to add more for some reason ;) 15:37:56 <Celestar> I am really not sure what to make of the map rewrite idea :P 15:38:06 <Belugas> so, in other words, "reserved space"! 15:38:06 <peter1138> hmm 15:38:53 <peter1138> Celestar: so you want the whole map to be pointers? 15:38:59 <peter1138> with variable size data... 15:39:08 <Belugas> The answer is in asm files, i just doubt it is clearly expressed 15:39:15 <Celestar> peter1138: why not ... apart from performance .... 15:39:22 <peter1138> well, yes, performance :) 15:39:27 <peter1138> and imagine it on 64 bit machines... 15:39:31 <peter1138> the map would be the same size 15:39:35 <peter1138> then you'd need the actual data... 15:39:45 <Celestar> peter1138: 64 bit machines RARELY have a memory problem ... 15:39:53 <Celestar> (in ottd) 15:40:07 <Celestar> our map discussion is mostly savegame (i.e. network) related 15:40:58 *** tormentum [~adam@dsl-202-72-142-139.wa.westnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 15:41:08 *** tormentum [~adam@dsl-202-72-142-139.wa.westnet.com.au] has quit [] 15:41:38 <Celestar> I wonder whether we could do stacked tiles in a better way than we "used to" 15:41:50 <peter1138> hmm, 16/32MB just of pointers for a large map 15:42:01 <peter1138> otoh, who cares, large maps are large anyway 15:42:08 <hylje> large map is laarge 15:42:13 <Celestar> well 15:42:20 <Belugas> there is one thing that did striked me recently, is the fact that there are some tile types that require really few bits, while others are just grabbing as much as they can 15:42:40 <peter1138> well a void tile doesn't need much data :) 15:42:43 <Celestar> Belugas: that's why I was thinking about the variable sized data. 15:42:50 <hylje> void tile? :o 15:43:00 <peter1138> but wasn't variable size data tried in the map branch? 15:43:01 <Belugas> yes, indeed, Celestar 15:43:04 <Celestar> the number of void tiles is rather limited 15:43:26 <Celestar> mostly it is MapX()+MapY()-1 15:43:40 <Celestar> peter1138: well kind of. 15:43:53 <peter1138> would you keep common data in the array or have it all shared out? 15:44:08 <peter1138> s/shared/passed/ 15:44:31 <peter1138> hmm 15:44:43 <Celestar> I dunno. I still think a uint16 height; uint8 type; void *data; approach would work best. 15:45:24 <Celestar> "type" could have bit 7 set for "there is something above" and bit 6 for "there is something below: 15:45:58 <peter1138> 16 bit height? 15:46:18 <peter1138> i'd say 8 bit height is more than plenty... 15:46:23 <Hagbarddenstore> Hey all... Using OpenTTD Miniin and I would like to know how I make a rail useable by others... 15:46:24 <Celestar> 5 bits north corner 3 bits each for the other corners 15:46:24 <peter1138> unless you store it as is 15:46:33 <peter1138> ah, so it's not just height 15:46:43 <Sacro> Hagbarddenstore: check the Subsiduaries tab in patch options 15:46:54 <Celestar> uint16 geometrical_configuration; 15:47:26 *** glx [glx@82.245.156.124] has joined #openttd 15:47:28 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 15:47:53 <Celestar> the question is, how much speed do we lose because of the indirection 15:48:16 <Celestar> (cache misses) 15:49:00 <Belugas> why not an hybrid system? critical data in a fixed size and pointer for other non crucial data 15:49:13 <Belugas> then, the fixed size is just typecasted 15:49:14 <Celestar> what IS critical data ... 15:49:27 <Belugas> ah... that is something to be determined :) 15:50:05 <hylje> pathfinder 15:50:18 <Belugas> ex: owner, type of industry, rail type, signal 15:50:22 <Belugas> don't know, stuff like that 15:50:30 <Celestar> index in station array 15:51:10 <Celestar> or we move everything OOP and have classes :) 15:51:18 <Celestar> only .. I dunno C++ 15:51:49 <Brianetta> Singaporekid is writing his subsidiaries patch to apply against MiniIN. Does anybody else think that looks like admitting defeat? 15:52:06 <Celestar> ? 15:52:07 <peter1138> as it's nothing to do with singaporekid... 15:52:16 <Sacro> Brianetta: his...? 15:52:17 <Brianetta> Indeed 15:52:20 <Brianetta> wrong name 15:52:25 <Sacro> thought it was LordOfThePigs 15:52:28 <Brianetta> s/Singaporekid/LordOfThePigs/ 15:52:40 <Sacro> Brianetta: impressive typo... 15:52:42 <Celestar> I still need reasons why not to merge the bridge branch :P 15:52:58 <Brianetta> Celestar: Reasons not to? 15:53:01 <Sacro> i see no reason for 101 different branches... 15:53:06 <peter1138> well the map stuff isn't sorted out yet 15:53:18 <Brianetta> This whole branch thing is the reason why I don't run a nightly 15:53:31 <Brianetta> but it's the chosen development method, for better or worse 15:53:37 <Celestar> peter1138: well, the bridge stuff does not add any bits, rather it frees some 15:53:43 <peter1138> ... 15:53:50 <peter1138> it does 15:54:00 <Celestar> Brianetta: if you have suggestions on how to do it better ... go ahead 15:54:06 <peter1138> well, ok, they were there anywhere, unusable 15:54:27 <Brianetta> Celestar: I'd just use the same method that the rest of the OSS community uses. One trunk, and a bit of actual design. 15:54:36 <Hagbarddenstore> Well... I have bought a company so it's a subsiduarie of my head... but how do I create new companys? For the moment I have to create another client runnin... 15:54:37 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat2.arachne.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:54:55 <peter1138> using the your company window, iirc 15:54:55 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat2.arachne.cz] has joined #openttd 15:54:59 <Sacro> Hagbarddenstore: i belive you click the coloured rectangle on the bottom bar 15:55:20 <Brianetta> I'd like to see shared rails in trunk (: 15:55:26 <Sacro> Brianetta: me too 15:55:33 <Brianetta> not subsidiaries, that seems just a bit of overkill 15:55:38 <Sacro> i can see the deathmatch game getting more interesting... 15:55:43 <Hagbarddenstore> Create, Merge and Administrate is greyish and not clickable... :/ 15:56:19 <glx> only in network 15:56:43 <glx> or you are using an old miniin :) 15:56:46 <Brianetta> glx: only in network what? 15:56:49 <Hagbarddenstore> glx: ok 15:56:56 <Hagbarddenstore> Where to get the new one? 15:57:03 <Celestar> Brianetta: most of the OSS community does use branches ... 15:57:16 <Hagbarddenstore> glx: And I'm in network play.. :D 15:57:23 <Brianetta> Celestar: Citation, please 15:57:49 <Brianetta> and I won't accept a distribution of software products 15:57:49 <glx> Hagbarddenstore: in network game you can't create, merge or administrate subsidiaries 15:57:55 <Hagbarddenstore> glx: ohh 15:57:59 <Hagbarddenstore> ok 15:58:02 <Hagbarddenstore> will try single then 15:58:02 <peter1138> gcc 15:58:03 <Hagbarddenstore> later 15:58:24 <peter1138> glx: that's a strange restriction... 15:58:54 <Celestar> Brianetta: samba fwiw 15:58:57 <Brianetta> peter1138: If a player creates 7 extra subsidiaries, they DOS the rest of the world from the server 15:59:02 <peter1138> oh, yes 15:59:03 <peter1138> hehe 15:59:22 <Brianetta> gcc uses a release / dev branch 15:59:43 <Brianetta> as does Samba 16:00:04 <Brianetta> Samba does not, for example, have an AD improvements branch, a CIFS branch, etc 16:00:20 <Maedhros> gcc uses branches for major changes, eg tree-ssa 16:00:29 <Tron_> now for something completly different 16:00:46 <Tron_> a new zomg-features release would be nice 16:01:00 <Tron_> there's enough stuff piled up 16:01:03 <peter1138> http://gcc.gnu.org/svn/gcc/branches/ 16:01:13 <Tron_> peter hacked tons of newgrf support 16:01:21 <peter1138> only release branches? 16:01:38 <Tron_> building on steep slopes 16:01:46 *** dp-_ [~dp@p54B2D349.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:01:57 <Sacro> Tron: isnt that MiniIN? 16:02:03 <Tron_> Sacro: what? 16:02:10 <Tron_> more options to control vehicles 16:02:24 <Sacro> Tron: MiniIN = zomg-features 16:02:27 <Brianetta> Wow, I'm glad I'm not on GCC's dev team. 16:02:30 <Tron_> guys, help me, my memory resembles a broken sieve 16:02:45 <Belugas> newcurrencies 16:02:47 <Brianetta> Tron: MiniIN is where user-submitted patches go to die. 16:02:48 <Celestar> Tron_: well .. what about the idea of storing all 4 corners in a tile ... 16:02:52 <Belugas> new widgets 16:02:55 <Belugas> tgp 16:03:00 <Tron_> right, of course 16:03:02 <peter1138> yeah, tgp 16:03:03 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B81123.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:03:10 <Maedhros> elrails 16:03:13 * Sacro considers writing a few patches 16:03:16 <peter1138> and those wonderful new airports 16:03:17 <Tron_> though widgets is more like a internal technical detail 16:03:20 <peter1138> elrails, yes 16:03:20 *** LSky` [~hixscript@cc103898-a.roden1.dr.home.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:03:20 <Brianetta> figuratively speaking, of course 16:03:21 <Tron_> not directly user visible 16:03:26 <Brianetta> a minority do somehow make it 16:03:30 *** Turski [~tarmo@dsl-kpogw1-fe21df00-2.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 16:03:39 <Tron_> though it makes using the gui system considerably less painful 16:03:50 *** LSky` [~hixscript@cc103898-a.roden1.dr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 16:03:52 <Belugas> agreed 16:04:02 <peter1138> i'd like to get the newgrf saveload stuff in for the next release 16:04:04 <Tron_> yeah, elrails 16:04:14 <Tron_> peter1138: hack it, hack it good! 16:04:26 <peter1138> i need to clear out the code duplication, heh 16:04:35 <Brianetta> mandatory wagon speed limits 16:04:45 <Brianetta> get rid of those pesky choices 16:05:23 <peter1138> hmm, last release was january... 16:05:28 <peter1138> was it this year or last? heh 16:05:38 <Tron_> ok 16:05:48 <Tron_> i have a reason for a flat map array instead an array of objects 16:06:05 <Tron_> for fun i tried to make a 4kx4k map in Simutrans 16:06:06 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, if people do not want speed limits, they should play without a newgrf that has them 16:06:18 <peter1138> OOM KILLER 16:06:33 <Eddi|zuHause> so remove that stupid "patch option" 16:06:34 <Tron_> that's like 2 yiggabytes 16:06:46 <Maedhros> going back to a slightly earlier conversation, http://dev.gentoo.org/~maedhros/openttd/unify_lift_moving_destination_bits.diff 16:06:47 <Eddi|zuHause> yogibytes? 16:06:58 <Tron_> the map there consists of distinct objects 16:07:07 <Tron_> in ottd the malloc() would have simply failed 16:07:18 <peter1138> hmm 16:07:24 <Tron_> in Simutrans my box started swapping like there was no tomorrow 16:07:33 <peter1138> and then it would segfault when we don't bother checking malloc's return value ;) 16:07:34 <Tron_> because it allocated millions of individual tiles 16:08:09 <Tron_> peter1138: actually we have a check after mallocing the map 16:08:20 <peter1138> k 16:08:25 *** dp- [~dp@84.178.207.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:08:25 <peter1138> in other places we don't :/ 16:08:34 <Celestar> Tron_: so? 16:08:54 <Tron_> my box swapping 2gb memory isn't a pretty sight 16:09:20 <peter1138> i don't think our memory usage would become *that* big 16:09:56 <peter1138> otoh, the current forced memory conservation would easily change 16:10:14 <peter1138> "oh, we just add another byte here" ... for a boolean value 16:10:27 <hylje> heheh 16:10:47 * peter1138 remembers a patch a while ago that added a uint32 to store road age 16:11:03 <Tron_> peter1138: i bet Simutrans' tiles could be cut in half without limiting anything if somebody would have a deeper look 16:11:56 <Celestar> so lets say we stay with the current flat map? 16:12:19 <Tron_> i think it's not the top item on the priority list 16:12:29 <Tron_> having a nice release should be imo 16:12:33 <Celestar> hm? 16:12:52 <Tron_> map format 16:13:06 <peter1138> ok, how about we say these map-changing features should be post 0.5(.0)? 16:13:37 <Celestar> we need new features for 0.5.0 16:13:43 <peter1138> we have new features 16:13:47 <Celestar> for example bridges (which leave the map format untouched) 16:13:54 <Tron_> there's already enough stuff to justify a release 16:13:56 <peter1138> but we've not had a release for so long you've forgotten they're new :) 16:14:05 <Sacro> i want PBS back :( 16:14:18 <peter1138> and bridges don't leave the map format untouched 16:14:28 <Tron_> they pretty much fuck it 16:14:33 <peter1138> or has the _m[].extra stuff gone? 16:14:41 <Tron_> the whole concept a bridge works changes 16:14:53 <Tron_> it's just two bits 16:14:58 <Tron_> it could be moved elsewhere 16:15:22 <Celestar> so what now? 16:15:26 <Tron_> i just put it there because i was lazy and wanted a quick result to work with 16:16:01 <Tron_> electrified rails, map generator, airports, steep slopes, tons of newgrf stuff 16:16:12 <Tron_> if this doesn't justify a release i don't know what doe 16:16:13 <Tron_> s 16:16:40 <Tron_> last minor release was more than two months ago 16:16:47 <Hagbarddenstore> Is there a Linux version of miniin ? 16:16:48 <Tron_> last big release ... half a year? 16:16:53 <hylje> Hagbarddenstore: yes 16:16:58 <Hagbarddenstore> hylje: Neat... 16:17:03 <Celestar> so what is the problem with the brige branch? 16:17:05 <Hagbarddenstore> Kinda tired of wining it... :D 16:17:16 <hylje> Tron_: gnome goes half a year per release too 16:17:21 <Sacro> Hagbarddenstore: compile it yourself :p 16:17:27 <hylje> Hagbarddenstore: look at nightly repo or compile yourself 16:17:32 <Hagbarddenstore> Sacro: Meehhh 16:17:35 <Sacro> heh, please lets not try and join debians release cycle 16:17:42 <Hagbarddenstore> hylje: Yep... 16:17:47 <Celestar> Sacro: lol 16:18:05 <Hagbarddenstore> Sacro: The Ubuntu release cycle is kinda nice... 6 months.. 16:18:14 <hylje> :> 16:18:17 <glx> Hagbarddenstore: it's available at the same place as win32 MiniIN 16:18:22 <Prof_Frink> Sacro: Or worse, windows release cycle 16:18:24 <hylje> Hagbarddenstore: they follow the gnome cycle 16:18:33 <hylje> Prof_Frink: AAAA! 5 years! 16:18:55 <Hagbarddenstore> glx: Well... Gotta get another from a bud... He has changed some things... 16:18:56 <hylje> http://www.tiehallinto.fi/alk/kelikamerat/BG311419.jpg slippery? i dont think so 16:21:20 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B81123.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: It's like, wah.] 16:22:06 <Celestar> as no one seems to answer my question anyway, I'll head home 16:24:22 <Brianetta> Celestar: There is no reason 16:25:09 <peter1138> Celestar: 1) it needs the map array stuff sorting 2) it needs more testing in trunk before a release 16:25:36 <peter1138> imho 16:25:42 <peter1138> which is pretty humble 16:26:00 <Brianetta> There's no such thing as a humble opinion (: 16:26:59 <Celestar> 1) well I am open for suggestions, 2) we can't test it in trunk if it is not IN trunk 16:30:17 <Brianetta> like any branch (: 16:30:28 <Sacro> merge stuff into trunk 16:30:41 <Sacro> set up a few nightly servers... and bingo, testing will occur 16:31:36 <peter1138> Celestar: yes, but for 2 there is an anticipated release "soon" 16:32:40 <peter1138> for 1) i suggest the map stuff is discussed with people doing the newhouses stuff 16:33:41 <peter1138> in the various hidden irc channels or even that mailing list thing ... 16:34:46 <Celestar> when is a release_ 16:35:53 <peter1138> hopefully RC1 end of November 16:36:22 <Sacro> release a beta WIP now 16:36:30 <Prof_Frink> Christmas Relesae! 16:36:37 <peter1138> Sacro: you have nightlies ffs :P 16:37:08 <Sacro> peter1138: i meant with added features from the other branches 16:37:42 <peter1138> bridges and utf8? 16:37:53 <Darkvater> a definite pre is that ALL saves before bridge-branch (eg 0.4.8) must load an upgrade perfectly with magic bridges 16:38:05 <Darkvater> without that, it'll never get it 16:38:14 <Sacro> peter1138: yep, sounds good, maybe newhouses as well 16:38:37 <Darkvater> Tron_: you have unsubscribed from maillist haven't you? 16:38:39 <Belugas> no, newhouses are not ready, nor tested enough 16:38:48 <Sacro> Darkvater: yeah, thats a major prerequesite 16:39:04 <Sacro> Belugas: not even a WIP alpha/beta? 16:39:14 <peter1138> compile it yourself? ;p 16:39:20 <Belugas> indeed :) 16:39:39 <Sacro> peter1138: if i could merge MiniIN + bridges + newhouses i would 16:40:00 *** Twinsen__ [~Twinsen@86.124.4.122] has joined #openttd 16:40:52 <CIA-1> maedhros * r7019 /branches/newhouses/ (town_cmd.c town_map.h): [NewHouses] -Codechange: Unify the bits for "lift has destination" and "lift is moving", since they both did the same thing. 16:46:23 <Celestar> ok then lets release and merge some stuff 16:46:26 <Celestar> this is getting ugly 16:46:40 <Sacro> I FOUND A BUG :D 16:46:47 <Sacro> wooyay 16:46:47 <peter1138> lies, you made it up 16:46:49 * Sacro dances 16:47:08 <Sacro> if you tell an aircraft to go to depot whilst its en-route to the runway, it will take off and then re-land 16:48:00 <peter1138> otoh 16:48:02 <peter1138> the AI needs fixign 16:48:05 <peter1138> FIXING 16:48:09 <peter1138> damn stupid keyboard 16:48:36 <Prof_Frink> peter1138: your typign needs fixign 16:54:25 *** LSky` [~hixscript@cc103898-a.roden1.dr.home.nl] has quit [Quit: [ HIX-Script v2.2 ]:::[ Download from ]:::[ www.rupertonline.ca/hix/ ]:::[] 16:54:37 <Naksu> sounds like you've been playing kingdom of loathing 16:54:58 <hylje> :o 16:56:40 *** Sionide [~sphinx@cpc4-norw5-0-0-cust184.pete.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 17:00:00 <Celestar> then release RC1 already .. 17:00:02 <Celestar> :P 17:00:30 * peter1138 wonders if Celestar is still on the list too 17:01:38 <Sacro> your name will also go on ze list... 17:01:49 <Eddi|zuHause> why bother having a list if not everybody that matters is on it? 17:02:05 <peter1138> well 17:02:07 <peter1138> i'm on the list 17:02:13 <peter1138> so that's alright then 17:02:14 * peter1138 hides 17:02:56 *** Zr40_ [~Zirconium@zr40.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:04:05 <Brianetta> I think the AI should be repaired or carefully removed. 17:09:41 <Sacro> i thought the GPMI lot where doing new ai? 17:09:45 *** Zr40 [~Zirconium@zr40.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:10:00 *** dp- [~dp@p54B2C924.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:10:46 <Brianetta> The what lot? 17:11:28 <Sacro> openttd.gpmi ? 17:12:04 <Brianetta> Are you asking me or telling me? 17:13:15 <CIA-1> glx * r7020 /trunk/ai/default/default.c: -Fix r6047: AI tries to delete stations that are 'in use' because FOR_ALL_STATIONS skips invalid stations 17:13:23 <Sacro> Brianetta: im not entirely sure now 17:14:04 <Brianetta> Well, as soon as this 0.5 mijobberylark comes out, I'll be grinding into pelvic-thrusting dedicated server action. 17:14:15 *** dp-_ [~dp@p54B2D349.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:14:20 <Sacro> thats an interesting word 17:14:29 <Brianetta> Pelvic? 17:14:32 <Sacro> nooo 17:14:37 <Sacro> mijobberylark 17:14:51 <Brianetta> That's a doojamaflip whatjamacallit. 17:15:04 <Brianetta> Metasyntactic variable, yes. 17:15:12 <Sacro> ahh... now it all makes sense *scratches head* 17:15:48 <Brianetta> It's bound to be on the Wikipedia 17:19:32 *** Sionide [~sphinx@cpc4-norw5-0-0-cust184.pete.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 482 seconds] 17:22:09 *** Sionide [~sphinx@cpc4-norw5-0-0-cust184.pete.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 17:35:10 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Tschüß] 17:36:43 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat2.arachne.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37:01 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@212.24.150.227] has joined #openttd 17:42:22 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-83-100-133-251.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 17:42:41 *** BJH2 [~chatzilla@e176114177.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 17:46:26 <Sacro> BobingAbout! 17:49:14 *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@213.211.185.168] has joined #openttd 17:54:37 *** Sionide [~sphinx@cpc4-norw5-0-0-cust184.pete.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:55:04 *** Sionide [~sphinx@cpc4-norw5-0-0-cust184.pete.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 17:56:28 *** Rens2Sea is now known as Rens2Eat 18:11:45 *** Turski [~tarmo@dsl-kpogw1-fe21df00-2.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:11:49 *** Sionide [~sphinx@cpc4-norw5-0-0-cust184.pete.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:12:12 *** Turski [~tarmo@dsl-kpogw1-fe21df00-2.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 18:16:22 *** qfh [~qfh@static-ip-62-75-161-163.inaddr.intergenia.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:18:41 <BobingAbout> hi 18:19:03 <Sacro> BobingAbout! 18:20:28 *** Zahl [~SENFGURKE@p549F1FCB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:21:03 <BobingAbout> ji 18:23:31 *** jez [trillion@cpc3-stkn4-0-0-cust630.midd.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 18:26:44 <Tron_> glx: does this solve the "delete used stations" problem or just a part of it? 18:27:20 <BobingAbout> erm, what? 18:27:31 <Tron_> [18:13:15] <CIA-1> glx * r7020 /trunk/ai/default/default.c: -Fix r6047: AI tries to delete stations that are 'in use' because FOR_ALL_STATIONS skips invalid stations 18:29:04 <glx> yes 18:29:43 <BobingAbout> iggy 18:31:06 <Tron_> very good 18:31:30 <glx> also fix "station_cmd.c:2363: DestroyRoadStop: Assertion `rs->num_vehicles == 0' failed." 18:31:51 <amix> i have just rated openttd as the best SDL multiplayer game 18:31:59 <amix> of 2006 18:32:15 <amix> good luck with the project 18:32:21 <Eddi|zuHause> but openttd uses DirectX ;) 18:32:28 <glx> Eddi|zuHause: lol 18:32:43 <glx> only for music 18:32:44 <amix> not on morphos 18:36:41 *** DJ_Mirage [~martijn@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:37:24 <Hagbarddenstore> Eddi|zuHause: Uhm... It's using SDL on my pc... 18:37:27 <amix> -4C and snow outside 18:37:28 <amix> ;P 18:37:38 <Hagbarddenstore> I CAN try to use DirectX... :D:D:D 18:37:44 <Hagbarddenstore> I == it* 18:37:50 *** Tron_ [ZliTOW3s@nat-1.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:38:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Hagbarddenstore: don't make me explain the joke, please... 18:38:21 <Hagbarddenstore> Eddi|zuHause: Please do. :D 18:38:27 <amix> will someone create a dessert server in 20mins? 18:38:37 <amix> :) 18:38:42 <Hagbarddenstore> amix: Dessert? :S 18:38:50 <Hagbarddenstore> Temperate is much better. :D 18:38:53 <Eddi|zuHause> dessert, as in pie with cream? 18:38:54 <Hagbarddenstore> Or Snow... :D 18:39:06 <amix> desert 18:39:08 <Hagbarddenstore> Desert 18:39:09 <amix> ? 18:39:11 <Hagbarddenstore> Hmm.. 18:39:14 <amix> yes 18:39:20 <amix> gfx is the best there 18:39:25 <smeding> doesn't the waiter usually serve dessert 18:39:25 <Eddi|zuHause> actually, there's an idea ;) 18:39:27 <smeding> :> 18:39:46 <amix> the toy levels arent to much used 18:39:48 <amix> :D 18:39:59 <smeding> toyland is evil 18:40:11 <amix> evil? 18:40:34 <Hagbarddenstore> Yep 18:40:38 <Hagbarddenstore> Evuuuuul 18:40:50 <amix> never played in toyland 18:42:39 <Sacro> :o http://www.pics.eggs-world.com/view/nooooo[1].jpg 18:42:41 * Sacro cries 18:51:24 *** Twinsen__ [~Twinsen@86.124.4.122] has quit [Quit: Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com] 18:56:02 *** Neonox [~Neonox@ip-80-226-135-136.vodafone-net.de] has joined #openttd 19:00:18 <jez> omg no :-( 19:00:47 <jez> one survived to tell the tale 19:00:49 *** LSky` [~hixscript@cc103898-a.roden1.dr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 19:02:59 <peter1138> it must be a draw 19:03:15 <BobingAbout> how can you have -214783648%? 19:03:35 <peter1138> if you're president bush... 19:03:54 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@212.24.150.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:03:55 <jez> BobingAbout: that's a valid percentile 19:05:17 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-61-130.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 19:07:05 *** CaptObvious [~CaptObvio@cpc2-darl2-0-0-cust28.midd.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 19:10:30 <amix> oki 19:10:45 <amix> openttd now 19:10:46 <amix> :) 19:22:16 <peter1138> i just remembered more features for the feature list 19:22:20 <peter1138> though they are newgrf related 19:22:58 <CaptObvious> someone should redo TTD with all of the OpenTTD enhancements and modern-day graphics 19:23:16 <CaptObvious> although I do like how TTD is so portable - I carry it round with me on a USB key 19:23:38 <CaptObvious> so if I'm somewhere with a computer and bored I can play :) 19:26:42 <Sacro> CaptObvious: im confused... 19:27:28 <CaptObvious> you're confused? 19:27:32 <CaptObvious> why? 19:27:51 *** jez [trillion@cpc3-stkn4-0-0-cust630.midd.cable.ntl.com] has quit [] 19:29:09 <BobingAbout> he's sacro, he's always confused 19:29:20 <CaptObvious> okay 19:29:27 <Sacro> CaptObvious: redo TTD with OpenTTD enhancments... 19:29:33 <Sacro> why not just use OpenTTD? 19:29:39 <BobingAbout> lol 19:29:56 <peter1138> seems a strange request 19:30:28 <BobingAbout> i have a question 19:30:45 <Sacro> BobingAbout: oh dear 19:30:53 <Sacro> BobingAbout: dont scratch it and go see a doctor 19:31:12 <BobingAbout> its newsignals related 19:31:41 <Sacro> just ask it 19:31:52 <Eddi|zuHause> don't eat yellow snow ;) 19:31:54 <BobingAbout> well, the first question is, should i stick to 1 prite per signal, or, should i split it in 2, and have 1 sprite for the signal itself, and a second for the aspect lights? 19:31:56 <BobingAbout> lol 19:32:07 <CaptObvious> Sacro: redo TTD with OpenTTD enhancements AND modern-day graphics 19:32:19 <peter1138> use a tile layout 19:32:21 <BobingAbout> thats basicly openttd 19:32:29 <Sacro> CaptObvious: so just add modern day graphics to OpenTTD? 19:32:32 <BobingAbout> tile layout, what? 19:32:51 <peter1138> tile layout == any number of sprites and any position without the tile 19:33:02 <peter1138> that means it can be in front, behind, on top, whatever 19:33:09 <peter1138> that would give you signal gantries 19:33:13 <CaptObvious> Sacro: yes, but an open-source community can't do that well 19:33:32 <Sacro> peter1138: that was the word i was looking for... gantry 19:33:42 <Sacro> CaptObvious: who says? 19:33:45 <BobingAbout> i don't know that word 19:34:45 <peter1138> http://www.nigelburkin.co.uk/Railway_modelling/Layouts/Platform-4a&4b/Signal%20gantry.jpg 19:35:33 <Sacro> peter1138: mmmmm sexy 19:35:42 <BobingAbout> hmmm 19:36:21 <Sacro> http://www.nigelburkin.co.uk/Railway_modelling/Layouts/Platform-4a&4b/CRW_0055_JFR.JPG thats a nice train 19:36:25 <BobingAbout> looks nice, but, i don't see what effect that would have in OTTD really... 19:37:17 <Sacro> BobingAbout: realism... and it looks cool 19:37:36 <peter1138> ... 19:37:40 <peter1138> it's visual 19:37:48 <BobingAbout> couldn't you just make that all 1 sprite? 19:37:49 <peter1138> you wanted it to be "like newstations" 19:37:54 <BobingAbout> lol 19:37:55 <peter1138> newstations is totally visual only 19:37:58 <Sacro> peter1138: http://www.nigelburkin.co.uk/Railway_modelling/Layouts/Platform-4a&4b/Gallery/CRW_7091_JFR-1.jpg :) 19:38:05 <peter1138> if you're adding a feature, you might as well make it look pretty too 19:38:18 <peter1138> BobingAbout: no, because you need things in front of and behind trains 19:38:24 <BobingAbout> i'll probably need more help 19:38:47 <peter1138> Sacro: mmm 19:38:53 <peter1138> it needs more weathering though 19:39:18 <peter1138> not enough dirt anywhere 19:39:26 <peter1138> not any in fact 19:39:42 <Sacro> i might have to spend my next years student loan on hornby stuff... 19:39:51 <CaptObvious> Sacro: have you ever seen 3d graphics done well by an open source community? 19:40:05 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@212.24.150.227] has joined #openttd 19:40:06 <CaptObvious> to the standard of Auran Trainz for example 19:40:09 <CaptObvious> or MS train sim 19:40:25 <Sacro> CaptObvious: yes 19:40:32 <CaptObvious> I haven't. 19:40:36 <CaptObvious> it always looks sucky 19:42:56 <Sacro> well quite a lot of the OpenTTD ones are amazing 19:43:40 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-61-130.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Tobin] 19:44:08 <peter1138> warsow looks pretty nice 19:44:14 <peter1138> but that's a different style of game 19:44:36 <peter1138> hmm, dunno if that's OS anyway :) 19:44:48 <Sacro> bbs, pizza time :) 19:45:35 *** KritiK [~Maxim@ppp85-140-205-192.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #openttd 19:57:53 *** Spoco [~Spoco@dsl-062-197-163-81.lohjanpuhelin.fi] has quit [] 19:58:27 *** Rens2Eat is now known as Rens2Sea 19:59:29 <Sacro> back 19:59:56 <Sacro> BobingAbout: ping 20:00:33 <BobingAbout> pong 20:02:10 <Sacro> BobingAbout: im in a newsignal kinda mood 20:03:04 *** Tron_ [~tron@p54A3E130.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:05:37 *** Neonox [~Neonox@ip-80-226-135-136.vodafone-net.de] has quit [Quit: bin wech....] 20:08:37 *** Tron [~tron@p54A3DFC9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:12:06 *** Wolf01|AWAY is now known as Wolf01 20:14:16 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:15:01 <hylje> http://img.4chan.org/b/src/1162324836498.gif 20:16:33 <Wolf01> lol 20:18:38 *** dp-_ [~dp@p54B2FA36.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:21:52 *** qfh [~qfh@static-ip-62-75-161-163.inaddr.intergenia.de] has joined #openttd 20:24:08 <peter1138> o_O 20:25:27 *** dp- [~dp@p54B2C924.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:27:02 <SpComb> indeed 20:27:19 <SpComb> it looks like a oversized mouse tbh 20:27:28 <SpComb> oversized, stoned mouse 20:28:40 <Sacro> SpComb: you dont see many of them around 20:33:20 <Eddi|zuHause> it looks pretty overphotoshopped... 20:33:40 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: have you never seen a cat do that before? 20:33:55 <Eddi|zuHause> that is not the point ;) 20:34:20 *** KUDr [KUDr@mazanec1.netbox.cz] has quit [] 20:34:24 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: i think thats entirely the point :p 20:35:27 *** Guest52835 [~wolf01@host187-175-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 20:35:27 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host187-175-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by Guest52835))] 20:35:30 *** KUDr [KUDr@mazanec1.netbox.cz] has joined #openttd 20:38:01 <Darkvater> whee, finally back for the day :) 20:38:25 <Sacro> hey Darkvater 20:38:29 <Darkvater> ola 20:39:01 <Sacro> Hej 20:39:44 *** Purno [~Purno@5351CE6A.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: Purno has spoken] 20:41:25 *** Cirana [~Peach@nat.kollegienet.dk] has joined #openttd 20:42:13 <Brianetta> Monorail cats area pest. 20:42:17 <Brianetta> are a 20:42:19 *** Guest52835 is now known as Wolf01 20:42:39 <Sacro> Brianetta: yes, though you could just divert the line 20:43:47 * peter1138 started a 1 company ukrs game 20:43:50 <peter1138> 512x512 map 20:43:54 <peter1138> wonder how that'll go 20:44:06 <Sacro> eh? 20:44:10 <Sacro> nightly? 20:44:21 <Sacro> 1 company >< 20:44:21 <Darkvater> lol 20:44:29 * Sacro s head explodes 20:44:30 <Darkvater> I checked out ttdpatch when I wanted to check out openttd 20:44:37 <peter1138> close 20:44:39 <Darkvater> I don't know if it's such a good idea to do coding tonight 20:45:05 <Belugas> depends how many lines you want to write, Darkvater ;) 20:45:06 <CaptObvious> do you know what would rock? a 4x speed OpenTTD game 20:45:11 <CaptObvious> not 4 times the speed now 20:45:17 <Darkvater> hehe 20:45:22 <CaptObvious> I mean 4 game days to 1 real day 20:45:31 <Darkvater> ok, try 2 20:45:31 <CaptObvious> or maybe a bit faster 20:45:44 <CaptObvious> and make rails and stations take time to build 20:45:55 <Sacro> CaptObvious: check out Sacro's daylength patch 20:45:57 <peter1138> that's a bit silly 20:46:02 <Sacro> (mainly written by Wolf01!) 20:46:12 <CaptObvious> peter1138: no it's not, it'd make OpenTTD into a persistent world game 20:46:19 <peter1138> 50 years would take 12.5 years... 20:46:20 <peter1138> heh 20:46:30 <CaptObvious> yeah, maybe a bit faster :P 20:46:33 <peter1138> you could pass the game on to your children 20:46:41 <CaptObvious> maybe make a game last 3 months or something like that 20:46:45 <Sacro> peter1138: that'd be ace 20:46:51 <CaptObvious> haha 20:46:54 <Sacro> CaptObvious: daylength 32x does that 20:46:56 <CaptObvious> pass the company down to your children 20:47:02 <Sacro> realtime OpenTTD 20:47:11 <hylje> : 20:47:12 <hylje> D 20:47:22 <Sacro> hylje: your head seems to be skewed 20:47:24 <CaptObvious> but does it make it take time to build the tracks and buy stuff? 20:47:32 <hylje> Sacro: no its not 20:47:33 <CaptObvious> otherwise it's just a really long normal game 20:47:34 <hylje> : 20:47:35 <hylje> ) 20:48:02 * Sacro pushes hylje's eyes and mouth back together 20:48:09 <hylje> ) 20:48:09 <hylje> : 20:48:16 <Sacro> bah... too far 20:48:41 <Sacro> Your openttd.grf file is corrupted or missing! :( 20:49:35 <peter1138> well update it then 20:50:22 <Sacro> done so 20:53:18 <CIA-1> egladil * r7021 /branches/32bpp/ (build_vehicle_gui.c depot_gui.c gfx.c graph_gui.c main_gui.c): [32bpp] -Replace some more draw calls. 20:54:27 <Darkvater> egladil is back \o/ 20:55:04 <Sacro> yay \o/ as is KUDr 20:55:10 <Sacro> even Celestar 20:55:14 <hylje> yayy 20:55:20 <hylje> and we has cia uno 20:55:21 <Sacro> oh noes... a hylje 20:55:28 <hylje> mwahah 20:55:33 <hylje> i was never away 20:55:36 <hylje> so i cant be back 20:55:43 <egladil> it's only one week since my last commit. you can hardly call that being away, can you? 20:56:10 <hylje> its a long time if you wait 20:58:53 *** dp- [~dp@p54B2F833.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:58:57 <Darkvater> egladil: one week is a long time when one waits every day for some activity :) 20:59:01 <egladil> ^^ 20:59:04 <Darkvater> egladil: can you give an update on the progress? 21:00:03 <egladil> hmm 21:00:23 <peter1138> erm 21:00:25 *** dp-__ [~dp@p54B2E2BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:00:27 <peter1138> you are not me 21:00:35 <Darkvater> eh? 21:00:43 <peter1138> "hmm" is my trademark 21:00:46 <hylje> hmm 21:00:55 <peter1138> :( 21:01:02 <hylje> wut 21:01:08 <Darkvater> heh 21:01:14 <Darkvater> I thought 'heh' was your trademark 21:01:20 <peter1138> hmm 21:01:21 <peter1138> hewh 21:01:23 <peter1138> heh 21:01:26 <hylje> hmm heh 21:01:28 <egladil> i put in the 32bpp sprite loader earlier by request of some of the artist, and now i'm back to doing the slow and boring work of making every sprite drawing call 32bpp aware 21:01:29 <Darkvater> but you failed to enforce it and now I'm stuck to it as well L/ 21:01:30 <peter1138> bleh :P 21:01:41 <Belugas> peter1138 grabbed every h* mouth noises 21:02:00 <peter1138> you know 21:02:04 <Darkvater> egladil: I wonder... 21:02:10 <peter1138> our fields are distinctly lacking in sheep 21:02:17 <peter1138> yet i hear them all the time 21:02:27 <egladil> Darkvater: about? 21:03:11 <Darkvater> I wonder if this conversion cannot be done 'invisibly' 21:03:21 <Darkvater> right now you have to go change every drawsprite routine 21:03:29 *** DJ_Mirage [~martijn@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: www.sexybiggetje.nl] 21:03:43 <Darkvater> what if you just allow the | PALETTE_CRASH and handle that inside DrawSprite? 21:04:10 <CaptObvious> you know what the most useful feature ever would be? 21:04:21 <CaptObvious> an easier way to convert trains over from rail-monorail-maglev 21:04:33 <Sacro> CaptObvious: to what? 21:04:35 <Darkvater> or for example the CONVHINT_NOHINT parameter that goes with each call where you have no player-colours 21:04:47 <Darkvater> just create a seperate function for that, or call that normal DrawSprite 21:05:13 <peter1138> to SKYTRAIN 21:05:28 <CaptObvious> Sacro: from rail to monorail to maglev 21:05:28 <Darkvater> I know I might or should've come up with this sooner, but it seems that 32bpp exposes too much of its internals outside 21:05:39 <Darkvater> how am I ever going to remember 21:05:42 *** dp-_ [~dp@p54B2FA36.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:05:48 <Darkvater> 267 DM_INIT(mode); 268 269 if (v->vehstatus & VS_CRASHED) { 270 DM_GRAYSCALED(mode); 271 } else { 272 DM_PLAYERCOLOURS(mode, GetVehiclePalette(v)); 273 } 21:05:54 <Darkvater> for a DrawSprite? 21:06:07 <egladil> handling the PALETTE_CRASH inside DrawSprite would just be an ugly way to get away with less work 21:06:26 <Sacro> egladil: but its less work right... ? :) 21:06:46 <egladil> and gives really ugly code 21:07:06 <Sacro> it'll blend in with the rest of the ugly code 21:07:12 *** dp- [~dp@p54B2F833.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:07:13 <CaptObvious> ouch, burn 21:07:19 * Sacro hides 21:07:47 <Darkvater> it was just an idea, thought it would ease up development 21:07:48 * peter1138 notices an oddity with the client list window 21:07:49 *** Trenskow [~outlet@85.218.143.73] has joined #openttd 21:07:59 <peter1138> it's the only one that has a mouse hover effect 21:08:00 *** Trenskow [~outlet@85.218.143.73] has quit [] 21:08:24 <Darkvater> so but ok, you're the expert; what is the real status, besides converting DrawSprite? 21:08:28 <egladil> Darkvater: i thought about doing it like that first, but came to the conclusion that it would be better to do a proper solution 21:08:35 <Darkvater> egladil: would it be in some kind of a finished state after that? 21:09:15 *** Nigel [~Nigel@202.154.148.17] has joined #openttd 21:09:43 * peter1138 ponders 'accidentally' merging utf8 21:10:08 <XeryusTC> Darkvater: you're around? 21:10:19 <glx> hmm does utf8 input work? 21:10:27 <egladil> the only things except for that is the new zoom levels and a proper way of telling the game to load 32bpp graphics (doing it in newgrf doesn't feel right) 21:10:33 <peter1138> why wouldn't it? 21:11:01 <CaptObvious> yes. smooth zooming would be nice 21:11:05 <egladil> but i reserve the right to have forgotten something :) 21:11:26 <CaptObvious> I often find myself looking for a zoom level between max and medium 21:11:47 <Darkvater> XeryusTC: donnu where I would be 21:12:01 <XeryusTC> with your gf? 21:12:13 * Darkvater checks...nop 21:13:28 <LSky`> how can one set a national flag for ones server in the game lobby? 21:13:45 <LSky`> i see every single server have this weird blue-ish flag except for a french one? 21:13:54 <glx> peter1138: '?' are displayed in input box when I set my keyboard for russian or greek 21:14:16 <Darkvater> LSky`: you only have a few choices 21:14:38 <Darkvater> LSky`: english, german, french, any in the start server window 21:14:46 <LSky`> oh its the language? 21:14:57 <LSky`> thats a bit confusing :\ 21:14:59 <XeryusTC> anyway Darkvater, there are 2 problems with the new chat 21:16:00 <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7022 /trunk/ (11 files): 21:16:00 <CIA-1> -Fix [FS#292]: Properly guard against viewing company-sensitive information from 21:16:00 <CIA-1> invalid players (eg spectators) which could lead to crashes. 21:16:52 <XeryusTC> Darkvater: care to listen? 21:17:01 <Darkvater> XeryusTC: so are you going to tell me or do I have to come over and beat it out from you? 21:17:21 <XeryusTC> i aint going to tell you if you dont show you're listening ;) 21:17:23 <XeryusTC> anyway: 21:17:44 <Darkvater> egladil: There have been some requests to document the sprite-internals of 32bpp. Could you do this after the majority of the work has been done? 21:17:58 <XeryusTC> 1) there are questionmarks in front of every chat line in the console 21:18:10 <Darkvater> console is stupid, yes 21:19:14 <XeryusTC> 2) ottd changes the chat method automaticly to team when someone is in your company 21:19:16 <egladil> Darkvater: you mean like the file format and stuff like that, or how the blitter works, or something else? 21:19:24 <XeryusTC> which presents a problem with #openttdcoop 21:19:51 <XeryusTC> as the autopilot also is an irc bridge, which cant read team messages 21:20:24 <Darkvater> egladil: file format, sprite-buildup (eg where are the recolour bits if any, etc.) so an outsider would be able to decode "our" sprites and know what to do with them to get them working in their own program 21:20:42 <Darkvater> XeryusTC: I am NOT going to fix the chat for an external script 21:20:49 <egladil> ok 21:21:01 <egladil> well, i suppose i could (and even should) do that 21:21:10 <Darkvater> I am however willing to add a window where you can set up what sort of message should be sent by default when you press 'enter' 21:21:21 <Darkvater> egladil: should is a better word :) 21:21:25 <Darkvater> but it would be great 21:21:38 <XeryusTC> Darkvater: ok, but it also makes it harder to talk in coopetition, where you talk to your team mate(s) via teamspeak, and talk to the other team by chat 21:21:53 <XeryusTC> which means you also chat to team by default 21:22:25 <Darkvater> 22:21 <@Darkvater> I am however willing to add a window where you can set up what sort of message should be sent by default when you press 'enter' 21:22:39 <XeryusTC> you could make a simple patch setting to switch the auto-speak-to-team ;) 21:22:43 <XeryusTC> no need for an extra window 21:23:18 <Darkvater> well the extra window would also be an ingame chat-history if all goes well 21:23:24 <peter1138> glx: should probably check... it was working previously 21:23:28 <hylje> also 21:23:34 <hylje> dont change the default on the fly 21:23:41 <hylje> set it at jointime 21:23:51 <Darkvater> standard Warcraft3 behaviour, go complain to Blizzard :) 21:24:01 <XeryusTC> no, we complain to you 21:24:07 <hylje> wc3 doesnt support on-the-fly join :p 21:24:09 <XeryusTC> OTTD has nothing to do with blizzard 21:24:18 <hylje> so the case is a bit different 21:25:13 <Darkvater> anyways, where was I... how to get rid of the '?' in the console... the easiest solution would be to put the strings to another buffer and send that to the console... or treat the 21:25:17 <Darkvater> hmm... 21:25:24 <Darkvater> XeryusTC: it has everything to do with blizzard :) 21:25:42 <XeryusTC> Darkvater: why isnt ottd sponsored by blizzard then? 21:25:49 <Darkvater> have you ever heard the chilling arctic windows at the top of surging mountain-tops your trains can barely cope with? 21:25:53 <Darkvater> it's blizzard all right 21:26:23 <XeryusTC> that's just lame :P 21:26:35 <peter1138> oh 21:26:54 <peter1138> wondered why i had loads of language errors 21:26:59 <peter1138> in the utf8 branch 21:27:09 <peter1138> 's cos i'm compiling unfinished too o_O 21:27:15 <Darkvater> :) 21:29:34 <Wolf01> bye 21:29:37 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host187-175-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [] 21:29:52 <Darkvater> windows? 21:29:53 <Darkvater> wtf 21:29:59 <Darkvater> winds 21:30:25 <peter1138> hmm? 21:30:29 <peter1138> ohh 21:30:30 <peter1138> hehe 21:30:37 <Darkvater> "heard the chilling arctic windows at the top" 21:31:00 <Darkvater> so peter1138, how about that accident? :) 21:31:07 <peter1138> that's a strange question... 21:31:10 <peter1138> er, in the forum 21:31:15 <peter1138> "Can the old scenarios and save games of OTTD 0.4.8 and the Nightly build ones be used with the new OTTD 0.5 version?" 21:31:18 <peter1138> accident? 21:31:28 <peter1138> ohhh 21:31:29 <peter1138> yes 21:31:30 <peter1138> hmm 21:31:33 <Darkvater> he 21:31:39 *** CaptObvious [~CaptObvio@cpc2-darl2-0-0-cust28.midd.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: Quitting!] 21:32:26 <peter1138> glx: works for me 21:32:41 <glx> should be windows then :) 21:34:55 <peter1138> otoh 21:35:16 <peter1138> hmm 21:36:09 <peter1138> is the savegame name box supposed to be raised instead of inset? 21:36:57 <peter1138> MAJOR BUG! 21:37:13 *** dp- [~dp@p54B2EAE5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:38:45 *** dp-_ [~dp@p54B2C8B5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:40:18 <peter1138> also 21:40:20 <peter1138> re 0.5.0 21:40:34 <peter1138> will it have any bugs? 21:40:50 <Sacro> anyone in here ever used komplett/ 21:41:28 *** dp-__ [~dp@p54B2E2BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:41:33 <Darkvater> peter1138: hehe 21:44:31 *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone 21:45:33 *** dp- [~dp@p54B2EAE5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:46:19 *** Cirana [~Peach@nat.kollegienet.dk] has quit [] 21:46:25 <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7023 /trunk/main_gui.c: 21:46:25 <CIA-1> -Fix: Pressing F1 in scenario editor did not work because the keypress event was sent 21:46:25 <CIA-1> twice. due to e->we.keypress.cont not being set to false. Also indent the switch 21:46:25 <CIA-1> statements for some coding style bonus points. 21:49:42 *** BJH2 [~chatzilla@e176114177.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.12/20050915]] 21:51:01 <CIA-1> egladil * r7024 /branches/32bpp/ (90 files in 5 dirs): [32bpp] -Sync r6800:6900 from trunk. 21:55:07 *** Turski [~tarmo@dsl-kpogw1-fe21df00-2.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:02:36 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-83-100-133-251.karoo.KCOM.COM] has left #openttd [] 22:02:56 <Darkvater> !(a|b) | !c 22:02:58 <Darkvater> is the same as 22:03:07 <Darkvater> c & (a|b) 22:03:08 <Darkvater> right? 22:03:27 * Darkvater loves boolean expressions :) 22:08:39 <Sacro> Darkvater: no 22:08:49 <Sacro> oh... err... maybe 22:09:05 <Sacro> yes. tis de morgans theorem 22:09:21 *** ChrisM87 [~ChrisM@p54AC794D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:26 <Darkvater> yeah, loving it :) 22:09:34 <Zr40_> Darkvater: no. they're not the same 22:09:44 <Darkvater> when I get too confused I just draw out some boolean tables to make sure 22:09:46 <Darkvater> Zr40_: why? 22:10:42 <Sacro> hmm, it might be !(c & (a|b)) 22:10:48 <Zr40_> the first one is an XOR, the second one an AND 22:11:29 <Zr40_> for the comparison, (a|b) can be simplified to x 22:11:42 <Zr40_> so it's !x | !c being compared to x & c 22:12:01 <Darkvater> oops, sorry it should be !(x & (a|b)) 22:12:12 <Darkvater> but I already removed the leading ! as it wasn't needed for my purposes ;) 22:12:33 <Zr40_> which one should be that? the first one or the second one? 22:12:38 <Darkvater> !x|!c == !(a&b) 22:12:46 <Darkvater> eh x and c 22:13:18 <Darkvater> sorry for the confusion Zr40_, you were right 22:14:23 <Zr40_> !x|!c == !(x&c) is true (:P) 22:14:52 <Darkvater> Celestar: ping 22:15:55 <CIA-1> egladil * r7025 /branches/32bpp/ (107 files in 6 dirs): [32bpp] -Sync r6900:7000 from trunk. 22:18:14 *** Zr40_ [~Zirconium@zr40.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:22:21 <CIA-1> miham * r7026 /trunk/lang/ (norwegian.txt portuguese.txt spanish.txt): 22:22:21 <CIA-1> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-10-31 23:21:44 22:22:21 <CIA-1> norwegian - 4 fixed by brygge_2 (4) 22:22:21 <CIA-1> portuguese - 7 fixed by izhirahider (7) 22:22:21 <CIA-1> spanish - 2 fixed by eusebio (2) 22:23:34 <Eddi|zuHause> is there any kind of regularity involved with those language updates? 22:23:59 <peter1138> yeah... when translators translate 22:24:02 <Eddi|zuHause> the timing always seems absolutely random 22:24:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean, you could easily set up a cron job to do that 15 minutes before the nightly 22:25:07 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@212.24.150.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:26:04 *** TinoM| [~Tino@i5387C13B.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 22:26:33 <peter1138> hmm, we need scrollable dropdown lists :/ 22:27:03 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat2.arachne.cz] has joined #openttd 22:28:19 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: its whenever MiHaMiX remembers 22:28:47 <Eddi|zuHause> which is exactly the point of a cron job, you can forget about it 22:28:56 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/o/ddl/1.png & 2.png 22:29:08 <Sacro> freetype? 22:29:29 <Darkvater> peter1138: you need a bigger window ^^ 22:29:30 <peter1138> yeah 22:30:01 <peter1138> buy me a faster pc ;p 22:30:19 <Darkvater> :) 22:30:30 <peter1138> nah 22:30:34 <peter1138> larger windows aren't a problem 22:30:38 <peter1138> but 640x480 is the default... 22:30:54 <Eddi|zuHause> the font looks a little strange 22:31:01 <Darkvater> ok RFC: in the scenario editor when the artist builds roads/bridges/tunnels should they always be OWNER_NONE or depending to the distance to the town, become owned by said town? 22:31:38 <Eddi|zuHause> town owned sounds right 22:31:46 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause: it's tahoma bold, and is not necessary 22:31:48 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387C553.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:32:54 <Eddi|zuHause> in the scenario editor, is there a way to prepare land to be owned by the company that joins the game? 22:33:47 <Darkvater> no 22:33:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i always missed that in TTO, when i was preparing land for tracks, and by the time i could afford to place them, the cities ate up all the space 22:36:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i would then officially classify this as a feature request 22:36:49 <Darkvater> then I will officially point you to bugs.openttd.org 22:37:11 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i was about to go there :) 22:39:45 <Darkvater> peter1138: yes some kind of a scrollbox would be nice for dropdowns...yet another widget-rewrite :) 22:40:00 <peter1138> argh :P 22:40:24 <peter1138> well not really, dropdowns are already standard windows with a couple of widgets 22:40:27 <peter1138> hmm 22:40:34 * peter1138 ponders 22:40:42 <Darkvater> well it still needs extra code 22:40:44 <peter1138> yes 22:41:08 * peter1138 tries it ;) 22:41:25 <Darkvater> I would think about something along the lines of a a ListBox with built-in or attached scroller (needed anyways) and a little bit of special coating 22:41:36 <Darkvater> peter1138: try resizing the openttd window while you have a dropdown active :) 22:41:48 <Darkvater> gets you a cool effect on centred windows 22:43:14 <peter1138> hmm, not for me 22:43:26 <peter1138> the whole thing goes black until i release :( 22:43:28 <Sacro> :O openttd in vb :D 22:43:44 <Darkvater> and when you release? 22:43:47 <glx> peter1138: I forgot to set fonts in openttd.cfg :P 22:43:53 <peter1138> then stuff has just moved... 22:43:57 <Darkvater> for me the window moved but the dropdown stayed at the same position :P 22:43:58 <peter1138> glx: so no glyphs... 22:44:05 <peter1138> ah 22:44:08 <peter1138> yes 22:44:34 <peter1138> you want me to fix that too? :P 22:45:00 <Darkvater> well if you are really intent on fixing the dropdown :) 22:45:02 <Darkvater> but... 22:45:16 <Darkvater> the scrollbar-attachment to a widget would be top priority 22:45:35 <Darkvater> either by mandating it is the next widget in the widget array (suboptimal idea) 22:45:50 <peter1138> any widget or just the matrix? 22:45:52 <glx> peter1138: works with sdl but doesn't work without 22:46:04 <Darkvater> or by cramping the scroller-id into wi->data, but this would only apply to special widgets, like WWT_MATRIX ( eg WWT_LISTBOX) 22:46:07 <glx> anyway you can't test it yourself :) 22:46:24 <Darkvater> peter1138: well you only need scrollers for matrix-type widgets 22:46:30 <Darkvater> I doubt a pushbutton would have need for it 22:46:33 <peter1138> and for the file list... 22:46:41 <peter1138> which isn't a matrixc 22:46:41 <Darkvater> that is basically also a MATRIX 22:46:42 <peter1138> -c 22:46:49 <Darkvater> technically it is 22:46:58 <Darkvater> just drawn without the 'matrix' :) 22:47:11 <Darkvater> in my local WC they already are matrices (WWT_LISTBOX) 22:47:15 <peter1138> heh 22:47:22 <Darkvater> wi->data then controls to draw the seperators or not 22:47:30 <peter1138> so what you're saying is i need to fix up that dynamic scroll bar patch? 22:48:03 <Darkvater> hmm (C peter1138), what did I say the last time... 22:48:09 <Darkvater> just said I need you to commit it :) 22:49:36 <Sacro> :o commitage! 22:50:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i gotta lay off that germanish capitalizing of words... 22:51:04 <peter1138> oh right 22:51:11 <peter1138> no, you complained about a global ;) 22:51:23 <Darkvater> he indeed 22:53:44 <Darkvater> damn, making road town-owned if it's close enough to a town at build-time is sucky... 22:53:57 * Darkvater can't think of any ideas that aren't ugly hacks 22:54:07 <peter1138> hmm 22:54:25 <peter1138> try the other method? 22:54:30 <peter1138> allow deletion of owner_none? 22:54:37 <Eddi|zuHause> how is it done when the town intself builds the road? 22:54:45 <Eddi|zuHause> -n 22:55:00 <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7027 /trunk/newgrf.c: - Codechange: Replace NewGRF loading stage masks with separate function lists. This will allow us to call different handlers depending on the current stage. Also enum-ize the stage. 22:55:45 <Darkvater> Eddi|zuHause: through a global variable 22:56:14 <peter1138> yuck 22:56:25 <Darkvater> peter1138: that works perfectly, only it is a bit strange that every road you build in the scenario editor, even for town-structuring is owned by noone 22:56:34 <Darkvater> _current_player in fact for town-ownership 22:56:34 <Eddi|zuHause> that's about what i thought, but i could not phrase it in words ;) 22:56:41 <peter1138> hmm 22:58:52 * Darkvater checks ttdp 22:59:06 *** tamlin [~tamlin@143.18.227.87.static.ehn.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #openttd 22:59:23 <Darkvater> dammit, it's okay there 22:59:35 <Darkvater> hmm...how to do this 23:01:16 <tamlin> As a dropped in late; do what? (I do hope it's a programming or software design issue :-) ) 23:01:38 <Darkvater> 23:53 <@Darkvater> damn, making road town-owned if it's close enough to a town at build-time is sucky... 23:01:41 <Darkvater> 23:53 * Darkvater can't think of any ideas that aren't ugly hacks 23:01:44 <Darkvater> there chew on this tamlin :) 23:02:25 <tamlin> How many bits have we to use? 23:02:31 <tamlin> (literally: bits) 23:02:43 <Darkvater> there are no bits involved 23:03:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't really see a problem... there are 2 cases, you place a) a road, or b) a town 23:04:05 <tamlin> OK, so we'd need to add an "overlay" then, to not disturb existing data format (I assume the issue is "who owns the road" - if not, I misunderstood the issue). 23:04:07 <Eddi|zuHause> in a) you loop through all towns, and check the distance 23:04:25 <Eddi|zuHause> in b) you loop through all tiles in the "area" and "consume" those roads 23:04:30 <Darkvater> Eddi|zuHause: ok now look at the code and tell me where to inject it cleanly 23:04:39 <Darkvater> don't you think I know how to do it in theory? 23:04:47 <tamlin> lol 23:04:52 <Eddi|zuHause> hehe ;) 23:04:57 <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7028 /trunk/ (road_cmd.c tunnelbridge_cmd.c): 23:04:57 <CIA-1> -Fix [FS#200]: Scenario bridges/tunnels cannot be demolished; now it's possible to 23:04:57 <CIA-1> delete tunnels/bridges owned by nobody. 23:05:44 <Darkvater> tamlin: you misunderstood the issue 23:05:55 <tamlin> Seems I did. 23:06:07 <Darkvater> well actually not, but the overlay part is misunderstood 23:06:26 <Darkvater> tamlin: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/200 23:06:26 *** Bear_ [~IceChat7@pool-68-236-28-252.phil.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 23:06:30 *** Bear_ [~IceChat7@pool-68-236-28-252.phil.east.verizon.net] has left #openttd [] 23:06:35 <tamlin> Is this for users building roads, or AI-built roads? 23:06:48 <Darkvater> hmm (C peter1138) Eddi|zuHause... your idea is actually not that bad 23:06:53 <tamlin> (or even editor build roads?) 23:06:56 *** smithj [smithj@dyn-62-56-88-66.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #openttd 23:07:00 <smithj> hi 23:07:09 <Darkvater> just build the damn roads/bridges/tunnels and at the end do an additional loop to correct ownership 23:07:25 <Darkvater> although that loop could be quite consuming on large maps where you could've done it in place 23:07:41 <Darkvater> tamlin: building roads in editor by the user 23:08:22 <tamlin> Darkvater: Ahh. Now I see where my confusion came from. Yes, indeed, this is an interesting problem. 23:08:28 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you loop through the list of towns, which are not that many, or in case of town placement, the "area" of the town should not be dependant on map size... 23:09:18 <smithj> Can someone help me, I think I may have discovered a bug, but I am not sure... 23:09:38 <Eddi|zuHause> smithj: we can't tell either from the current information... 23:09:45 <Darkvater> Eddi|zuHause: well on large maps you have LOTS of towns, and for each you want to loop a certain radius..is still a lot of work 23:09:55 <smithj> i know, just wondered if someone has free 5 minutes to help me out 23:10:01 <Darkvater> where in about 90% of the cases no action will be taken at all 23:10:42 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... no, you only have to check the distance from the newly placed piece of road, that is one calculation per town 23:11:00 <tamlin> Darkvater: From editor, I'd say where you start the bridge, that's the owner of it. Reasonable? 23:11:14 <Darkvater> so at the moment of putting down the road? 23:11:14 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Quit: So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish] 23:11:14 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 23:11:14 <smithj> I am using an SVN (r6682). I have 4 intercontinental airports on my large map. After 1 or 2 minutes, it crashes OpenTTD 23:11:27 <peter1138> well update 23:11:30 <Darkvater> Eddi|zuHause: yes, that was my original idea, one for which I'm looking for a clean implementation 23:11:31 <smithj> I am not sure if it's me, or a bug 23:11:55 <Darkvater> tamlin: yes, that is already so, during gameplay 23:12:01 <tamlin> smithj: If it crashes, it's obviously a bug! 23:12:22 <smithj> perhaps it may be due to my setup rather than the intercontinental airports 23:12:37 <smithj> can i swutch debug mode on in windows version...? 23:12:42 <Darkvater> this discussion is fine and dandy though, but the help I need is with the actual implementation, not with the theoretical design :) 23:12:56 <Darkvater> smithj: put the savegame online somewhere and I'll have a look 23:13:02 * peter1138 has a grand idea 23:13:09 <tamlin> smithj: If you can get hold of it, I suggest a copy of Purify. 23:13:20 <peter1138> it involves lying horizontally 23:13:29 <Darkvater> :O 23:13:31 * Darkvater likes that idea 23:13:56 <peter1138> hmm 23:14:33 <Darkvater> where the actual owner is being set is at road_cmd.c:415 for roads 23:14:50 <Darkvater> eg _current_player 23:15:09 <Darkvater> smithj: sorry, DCC doesn't really work for me 23:15:42 <smithj> http://62.56.88.66/Continental%20Line.sav 23:16:08 <Eddi|zuHause> smithj: check if it still occures with the current nightly 23:16:12 <smithj> ayone else who wants a copy, please feel free 23:16:17 <smithj> ok, i will downlaod nightly 23:16:30 <peter1138> thought you were using svn? heh 23:16:40 <tamlin> Darkvater: It's editor related, right? ONLY when adding new roads etc going *through* another owners land? Could different color-mappings be used to display ownership for a road segment (not just shades, but really different colo(u)rs)? Then allow the one editing the map do change ownership as s/he sees fit? (just brainstorming) 23:16:41 <Darkvater> HOLY CRAP SHIPS 23:16:44 <Darkvater> millions of them 23:16:48 <smithj> yes 23:16:55 <smithj> and one or two aircraft too 23:17:02 <Darkvater> why aren't you using yapf? 23:17:10 <peter1138> yapf is slow for ships? 23:17:21 <Darkvater> yes, but not as slow as NPF 23:17:31 <peter1138> oh 23:17:33 <smithj> with the amount of $$ i make, i didnt really give it a thought 23:17:43 <Darkvater> yapf is a pathfinder 23:17:49 <Darkvater> npf is a pathfinder 23:18:06 <peter1138> Darkvater: oh, well npf isn't enabled either :) 23:18:10 <smithj> ok i will try switching it on using latest nightly 23:18:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought NPF is already disabled for ships 23:18:16 <peter1138> nor is realistic acceleration :o 23:18:34 <Darkvater> peter1138: indeed 23:18:42 <Darkvater> so where's this crash? got any date? 23:18:43 <tamlin> Why would ships even need npf? 23:18:54 <peter1138> to get from a to b 23:19:02 <Darkvater> tamlin: well the idea is nice, but I want to DTRT 23:19:07 <peter1138> only 69 anyway 23:19:10 <Eddi|zuHause> because NPF/YAPF are global pathfinders 23:19:11 <peter1138> not that many 23:19:13 <Darkvater> if a road is built close to a town it should *belong* to a town 23:19:23 <Eddi|zuHause> the old pathfinder had a limit on how far to look 23:19:23 <tamlin> Darkvater: DTRT? 23:19:28 <Darkvater> do the right thing 23:19:37 <tamlin> got it 23:19:38 <Darkvater> smithj: when does it crash? 23:19:52 <smithj> just after a couple of minutes i move round the map 23:20:04 <smithj> go to London and have a look at the two intercontinentals 23:20:06 <peter1138> it could just be a problem fixed since 6682 23:20:09 <smithj> then it hangs 23:20:20 <smithj> I'm thinking that could be it 23:20:24 <Darkvater> it's so damn slow in debug mode it hangs anyways ;p 23:20:54 <tamlin> Darkvater: Just to add a pathological case here. You have two cities the same distance from a lake. Build roads to the bridge, and roads to the cities. Who owns the bridge? It requires human intervention, I think. 23:21:17 <peter1138> 6682 is a bit old 23:21:18 <Darkvater> the town that was closest to the bridge's start-point 23:21:31 *** Maedhros [~jc@host81-157-252-95.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: good night] 23:21:40 <tamlin> Darkvater: My point here was that both are at the same distance. 23:21:53 <peter1138> that's why you choose the starting point :) 23:21:56 <tamlin> (from the lake, and therefore the bridge)) 23:22:06 <Darkvater> hmm (C peter1138) anyone know how do I tell irssi to show DCC messages in the active channel window instead of the status window? 23:22:08 <peter1138> it really doesn't matter much who it belongs to 23:22:25 <peter1138> heh, (C Darkvater) i wish i knew ;p 23:22:30 <peter1138> (whatever that is ;p) 23:22:35 <Darkvater> copyright :) 23:22:41 <smithj> seems to be working fine now on r7020 23:22:47 <peter1138> ah 23:22:50 <peter1138> © :D 23:23:07 <tamlin> peter1138: I think that may be true, but just in case I'd still like the starting position (for bridges) to be the owner. 23:23:10 <Darkvater> ah found it 23:23:18 <peter1138> who would've thought there'd be changes in 338 revisions? 23:23:24 <smithj> :) 23:23:28 <tamlin> lol 23:23:44 <peter1138> that's a very... *flat* map 23:23:44 <Darkvater> tamlin: you are missing the point :). What you propose is ok/sensible AFTER it works as it should 23:24:21 <tamlin> Darkvater: Oh, so you're at the stage to trying to figure out who owns it _at the starting point_? 23:24:27 <Darkvater> 00:24 [lookandfeel] 23:24:27 <Darkvater> 00:24 use_status_window = OFF 23:24:28 <smithj> oh wait a sec 23:24:29 <Darkvater> there we go 23:24:47 <peter1138> wtf 23:24:55 <peter1138> yapf is *faster* in this game 23:25:03 <tamlin> Darkvater: Radius distance? 23:25:16 <Darkvater> tamlin: kinda; I'm at the stage of figuring out how to tell the game who owns it when I put it down. The only question here is code-based, eg "how the hell do I hack this in there" 23:25:24 <Darkvater> peter1138: well KUDr did a nice job :) 23:25:27 <peter1138> faster in a "the planes noticably speed up" way 23:25:36 <smithj> Thanks for your help guys. 23:25:37 <peter1138> that's faster than the original pathfinder, not npf 23:25:45 <tamlin> Darkvater: Wait a second. Radius distance would be wrong too, for a pathological case I just considered... 23:25:47 <Darkvater> ya 23:25:56 <peter1138> npf speeds it up lots too :) 23:26:10 <Darkvater> tamlin: your pathological case would involve user finetuning 23:26:16 <Darkvater> but we're really not there yet 23:26:32 <peter1138> oh, i had fast forward on 23:26:36 <peter1138> my machine isn't that slow ;p 23:26:39 <Darkvater> I'm going to join peter1138 on his brilliant idea though 23:26:42 <tamlin> Darkvater: Could we assign a very large penalty to water (even if just one tile)? 23:26:51 <Darkvater> what? 23:26:51 <smithj> Is there a place to suggest new features..? I have one or two ideas. Perhaps you guys can give me some feedback..? 23:27:13 <Darkvater> the forums or bugs.openttd.org 23:27:42 <Brianetta> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/coventry_warwickshire/6101810.stm <-- LOLage 23:28:18 <smithj> Well, I'd like to see aqueducts and ship tunnels. Also ships that carry vehicles would be nice. What do you think...? 23:28:54 <glx> already suggested IIRC 23:29:20 <tamlin> Darkvater: I came to think of the case where you have town A to the west just beside a river (N/S), and a large town to the east that's further away from the river, but due to size it is the one that had the money to build the bridge, and therefore owns it. Bah, forget it, this is becoming too complex. 23:29:38 <Darkvater> yep 23:29:57 <Darkvater> crap I wanted to test av8 with the new sounds but now I can't :( 23:30:11 <Darkvater> smithj: see glx 23:30:24 <smithj> oh right 23:30:24 <Darkvater> well good-night all, see you tomorrow at work ;p 23:30:30 <smithj> bye, thanks again 23:30:35 <peter1138> you're coming to my office? 23:30:38 <glx> night Darkvater 23:31:01 <Darkvater> .. 23:31:14 <Darkvater> gn glx 23:31:27 <Darkvater> during work then :) 23:33:21 *** tamlin [~tamlin@143.18.227.87.static.ehn.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:34:17 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Tschüß] 23:35:56 *** LSky` [~hixscript@cc103898-a.roden1.dr.home.nl] has quit [Quit: [ HIX-Script v2.2 ]:::[ Download from ]:::[ www.rupertonline.ca/hix/ ]:::[] 23:36:25 *** Zahl [~SENFGURKE@p549F1FCB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: YOU! 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