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has quit [] 10:00:08 *** ammler_ [~ammler@adsl-84-226-97-153.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:00:25 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C529.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:02:36 *** mikl [~mikl@0x5551931e.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 10:03:34 *** ammler [~ammler@adsl-84-226-97-153.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 10:03:35 <boekabart_> hello Desolator ;) 10:04:07 *** Frostregen [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-154-161.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:07:09 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-167-234.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 10:13:50 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:30:45 *** llugo [~lugo@pD9582229.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:39:13 *** e1ko [~L@a02-0432b.kn.vutbr.cz] has joined #openttd 10:46:10 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl7-181-155.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 10:47:04 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has joined 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<CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9050 /trunk/src/ (180 files in 12 dirs): -Codechange: Foo(void) -> Foo() 11:47:52 *** ammler [~ammler@adsl-84-226-97-153.adslplus.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:49:04 *** ammler [~ammler@adsl-84-227-163-209.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 11:54:28 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:11:52 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9051 /trunk/src/ (138 files in 10 dirs): -Codechange: typedef [enum|struct] Y {} X; -> [enum|struct] X {}; 12:23:09 *** Hadez [~chatzilla@151.244.broadband7.iol.cz] has joined #openttd 12:23:15 <Hadez> Hi everyone :-) 12:23:58 <Hadez> I wonder why there is {COMMA} in buy vehicle window. Number of vehicles is always integral... 12:24:25 <Hadez> I need {NUM} there because I want to use {P ...} 12:25:33 <peter1138> it's english 12:25:39 <peter1138> COMMA being the thousands separator 12:26:19 <peter1138> either way NUM or COMMA shouldn't matter for plurals 12:27:15 <Hadez> I think plurals don't work with {COMMA} then. Even in English, there is [My Company] - 1 Trains. 12:27:22 <Hadez> Current SVN. 12:27:30 <peter1138> does it work as NUM? 12:28:39 <Hadez> No, plural is ignored. See STR_881B_TRAINS :{WHITE}{COMPANY} - {COMMA} Train{P "" s} 12:28:50 *** llugo [~lugo@pD9580ACF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:28:51 <peter1138> hence my question 12:28:54 <peter1138> does it work as NUM 12:29:03 <peter1138> i.e. changing COMMA to NUM 12:29:48 <Hadez> Wait. 12:30:06 <peter1138> (it shouldn't...) 12:30:22 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-155-87.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ThePizzaKing] 12:31:19 <peter1138> might be because COMPANY is before COMMA 12:31:25 <peter1138> i.e. a bug 12:31:34 <peter1138> well, clearly there's a bug because it doesn't work 12:32:39 <Hadez> Changing {COMMA} to {NUM} in my translation and in English didn't success. 12:32:48 <Hadez> As expected. 12:32:57 <peter1138> yeah 12:33:00 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 12:35:37 *** lugo [~lugo@pD9582229.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:37:15 <peter1138> strgen bug i think 12:37:29 <peter1138> hmm 12:37:33 <peter1138> or not 12:37:42 <peter1138> bah 12:39:23 *** lolman [~john@81.100.228.56] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:39:41 *** lolman [~john@81.100.228.56] has joined #openttd 12:40:34 *** lolman [~john@81.100.228.56] has quit [] 12:40:54 *** lolman [~john@81.100.228.56] has joined #openttd 12:41:03 <lolman> Gah @ SSH 12:41:40 *** lolman [~john@81.100.228.56] has quit [] 12:47:01 <Hadez> I can tell that "STR_SCHEDULED_TRAINS :{WHITE}{STATION} - {COMMA} Train{P "" s}" 12:47:02 <Hadez> works. 12:48:56 <peter1138> maybe it's because {COMPANY} consumes an argument 12:53:47 *** ammler [~ammler@adsl-84-227-163-209.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:01:25 *** Hadez [~chatzilla@151.244.broadband7.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0.0.2/0000000000]] 13:05:55 *** michi_cc [7e9d35af22@dude.icosahedron.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:09:00 *** michi_cc [3c7987e75a@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 13:09:03 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 13:09:26 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@adsl-213-249-184-212.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 13:10:28 <peter1138> hmm, that should be handled 13:13:35 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl7-181-155.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye...] 13:13:59 <Kittysune> oh god 13:14:03 <Kittysune> ... 13:14:04 <Kittysune> asdf 13:14:06 *** Kittysune is now known as Ailure 13:15:27 *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@213.211.185.168] has quit [] 13:22:04 <Brianetta> Kittysune? 13:27:05 <peter1138> hee 13:37:37 *** mikl [~mikl@0x5551931e.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Quit: In the end, all that matters is your relation with God...] 13:45:16 *** SwordFish [~asd@84-50-236-142-dsl.kjj.estpak.ee] has joined #openttd 13:52:38 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 13:52:41 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:52:53 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-61-130.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 13:58:05 *** Maedhros [~jc@smtp.gentoo.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:00:45 *** Maedhros [~jc@smtp.gentoo.org] has joined #openttd 14:09:50 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-61-130.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Tobin] 14:11:16 <Belugas> hello 14:13:31 <Sacro|Laptop> hello 14:15:29 <Descyber> hello 14:17:04 <Progman> hello 14:17:19 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:18:28 *** Zaviori [~Zavior@d195-237-7-217.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 14:18:29 *** Zavior [~Zavior@d195-237-7-217.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:22:57 <mikk36> Q: does ottd use multiple cores if available ? 14:24:03 <Sacro|Laptop> no 14:24:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> only saving and land generation are threaded 14:26:26 <Belugas> as Sacro|Laptop and Eddi|zuHause2 are saying, answer is no. 14:26:28 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause2: not really threaded 14:26:33 <Belugas> wuld be a mess to do 14:29:25 <Rubidium> compressing the savegame is done in a separate thread and the land generation is kind of a hack for multithreading, it's only used so it can pause the generation process while redrawing the window so there are no inconsistent states 14:37:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: celestar * r9052 /branches/gamebalance/src/fixedt.h: [gamebalance] -Add: Unary minus operator for FixedT 14:40:02 *** Osai^zZz [~Osai@pD9EB52BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:43:10 <boekabart_> Actually I think the drawing could be done in a separate thread. The loop already does a collect, then a draw. That draw could be done in a separate thread.. maybe? 14:49:15 *** STC_FunMaker [~FunMaker@p5B044F1E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 3.79 :: www.XLhost.de )] 14:49:23 <Rubidium> boekabart_: it could be done in a separate thread, but it is a huge amount of work because you have to cache everything you want to actually draw before actually starting to draw 14:50:07 <Rubidium> that includes the depot windows etc. 14:56:31 *** ammler [~ammler@adsl-84-227-163-209.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 14:57:19 *** Osai^zZz is now known as Osai 15:05:45 *** Sacro|Mobile [~Ben@adsl-213-249-184-212.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 15:05:50 *** Sacro|Mobile [~Ben@adsl-213-249-184-212.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:08:06 *** mikl [~mikl@0x5551931e.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 15:12:02 *** mikl [~mikl@0x5551931e.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [] 15:12:22 *** mikl [~mikl@0x5551931e.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 15:14:24 <boekabart_> Maybe it would be easier to run the game loop in the background, and render it once in a while. Nevermind ;) 15:21:15 *** jthill [~jthill@pool-71-109-73-120.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #openttd [] 15:23:25 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@adsl-213-249-184-212.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:24:22 *** carwe [~carwe@p54B362C5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:26:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> honestly, i don't think any system having multiple cores has a problem with running the game in one core 15:26:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> so it's totally not worth the effort 15:28:22 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@212-182-130-7.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has quit [Quit: Words get written, words get twisted, old meanings change in the drift of time.] 15:28:44 <KUDr_wrk> even on single core the game is not totally dead during saving thanks to multithreading 15:28:46 <ln-> i have a dual-P166 over there... i have never powered it up though. 15:30:20 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@212-182-130-7.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has joined #openttd 15:31:54 *** caladan [~caladan@161-be2-18.acn.waw.pl] has joined #openttd 15:32:11 <peter1138> dual core machine -- run the server & client on the same box :D 15:32:18 <boekabart_> I also have a dual P2-233 sitting in a corner... could be useful to use both 15:32:22 <peter1138> if only it didn't need twice the memory... 15:33:18 <boekabart_> is a server useful when playing alone? does it give any speed advantage? i think not... 15:34:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> "speed advantage"? where the hell would that come from? 15:34:54 <|2rB> things goind slower ? that is an advantage 15:34:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> having "additional functionality" does usually not go well with "speed advantage" 15:35:55 <hylje> boekabart_: server brings persistent gaming 15:36:10 <hylje> boekabart_: you can play the same game from several games with no need for version control for savegames 15:36:19 <hylje> s/several games/several locations/ 15:36:51 <boekabart_> ok. But no advantage in terms of 'part of the logic running on server (CPU), freeing client CPU 15:36:54 <boekabart_> ?? 15:37:11 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@87.102.1.237] has joined #openttd 15:37:15 <hylje> the client runs the same game as the server 15:37:20 <hylje> they just keep it in sync 15:37:37 <hylje> no performance bonus with current architecture 15:38:02 <boekabart_> Question answered. 15:42:17 <ammler> Im looking for assistance to configure my Laptop with sound, could someone help here? 15:42:38 *** A1win [a1win@loota.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:44:22 *** A1win [a1win@loota.fi] has joined #openttd 15:45:56 <ammler> sorry, wrong channel ;) 15:47:05 <Sacro|Laptop> ammler: what OS? 15:47:18 <ammler> Suse 15:47:32 <ammler> (Linux) 15:48:59 <Descyber> what laptop? 15:50:35 <glx> or at least what sound chip 15:51:12 <ammler> mom, im looking 15:51:35 <Sacro|Laptop> lspci 15:52:20 <ammler> HDA Controller 15:52:33 <ammler> 82801G 15:52:39 <boekabart_> look for HD Audio driver at intel.com 15:53:06 <ammler> The sound is runnig, if I do alsaconf manually 15:53:26 *** eQualize1 [~lauri@dyn15-55.dsl.spy.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:53:35 <boekabart_> put in in 'autoexec' then :) 15:53:55 <ammler> yeah, I thought that too, but there is an other problem 15:54:22 <Sacro|Laptop> snd_hda_intel 15:54:26 <Sacro|Laptop> and snd_hda_codecs 15:54:39 <ammler> The Volume can't be adjust with the builtin buttons on the notebook 15:54:42 <Sacro|Laptop> ammler: 'alsamixer' 15:55:27 <ammler> Sacro|Laptop: Are there Repos for Suse? 15:55:45 <Sacro|Laptop> ammler: err... should be already isntalled, or part of alsa_utils 15:55:54 <Sacro|Laptop> i haven't used suse in a looooooong time 15:56:51 *** OwenS [~OwenS@5ac0cd55.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 15:56:52 <Descyber> snd_hda_intel/codec are kernel modules, aren't they? 15:58:20 <Descyber> then again, who knows with suse.. 15:58:29 * Descyber tries to suppress bad momeries with suse.. 16:01:17 <SwordFish> kus 16:01:19 <SwordFish> sry 16:02:19 <Sacro|Laptop> Descyber: yes, they are 16:03:25 <Descyber> so on suse you'd tell yast or whoever to add those modules to /etc/modules or whatever and then in theory it should work ;) 16:04:05 <Descyber> ammler: as for the hardware buttons, depends on your notebook really, on my thinkpad they address the hardware directly, but other buttons work via acpi.. 16:04:15 <ammler> sorry, was away accidentally 16:07:21 <OwenS> People use SuSE? I tried it and found I was always waiting for YaST to do something... 16:07:40 <Descyber> OwenS: i don't ;) 16:07:55 <Descyber> i try not to remember it.. 16:08:17 <Sacro|Laptop> i found i was always fighting suse 16:08:23 <OwenS> I also found it's lack of any mentioned command line package utility infuriating 16:08:40 <OwenS> Oh, and it doesn't support any of my 3 graphics cards... 16:08:57 <Descyber> well that's not really a suse issue i'd say.. 16:09:59 <OwenS> network cards** 16:10:19 <OwenS> It didn't even support a Linksys <whatever>, which is common as dirt... 16:11:12 <Descyber> i'd say that's a kernel issue 16:11:47 *** eQualizer [~lauri@dyn15-55.dsl.spy.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 16:12:05 <OwenS> SuSE 10 didn't support it and Debian Sarge, on a 2.4 kernel, did 16:12:24 <caladan> so its matter of kernel, should have compiled it on your own 16:12:58 <OwenS> How the heck am I supposed to download the kernel sources? ... 16:13:11 <caladan> use pendrive? 16:13:23 <caladan> use livecd, save at partition, mount it under that suse? 16:13:38 <OwenS> It wouldn't even install... I ALWAYS netinstall my distros 16:14:08 <caladan> strange thing, im not for suse, but i guess it can be done somehow 16:16:39 *** thgergo [~th_gergo@dsl51B7A123.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 16:16:46 <Descyber> caladan: depends how much pain you can take ;) 16:17:09 <caladan> hehe, i can take a lot of pain, used slack for a long time :D 16:17:39 <Descyber> "i still use windows" - "well, masochism is a matter of choice.." 16:17:44 <OwenS> If a distro won't netinstall, IHMO, it's too much hastle to be worth my time 16:18:16 <Descyber> i think the last non-netinstall was debian potato back in.. uhmm.. errr.. 99? 16:19:28 <OwenS> The only time I have not netinstalled is when it has come on an LXF coverdvd 16:20:20 <Descyber> i stopped buying magazines after i worked at a place which takes part in getting advertisements into them :> 16:21:41 <OwenS> LXF has, added together, about 10 pages of adverts per issue 16:23:22 <Descyber> it's just insane how much companies invest in advertising.. 16:23:27 <OwenS> Sorry, I forgot 1&1, who seem to have 5 to themselves. However, thats easily removed if one can't ignore them since it never is on the same leave as a content page ^^ 16:23:41 <Descyber> hehe 16:24:12 <Descyber> there's no adblock for real life tho ;) 16:24:36 <OwenS> I find it ironic they have 2 pages advertising windows software in Linux Format... 16:24:45 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B822AC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:25:33 <Descyber> depends on the target group the magazine claims to have in their media data.. 16:25:58 <OwenS> 1&1 run the same advert in about 25 magazines I think... 16:26:37 <Descyber> have to abide by CI ;) 16:26:48 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has joined #openttd 16:27:09 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B83B96.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:27:10 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 16:33:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'd totally hate netinstall 16:33:28 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:33:52 *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@213.211.185.168] has joined #openttd 16:33:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'd rather wait a day to download the complete install dvd, while still being able to do other things 16:34:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> than waiting half a day downloading the packages i actually install, while i can't do anything 16:35:06 <OwenS> I generally spend an hour... Which I spend on the other PC 16:35:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> and i had absolutely no hardware issues with SuSE 16:35:23 <OwenS> I download a new distro rarely anway.. In fact, only after a hardware failiure or change 16:35:31 <Rubidium> for me it's the other way around, don't want to wait for the slow dvd, netinstall is much faster (in my case) and I've got up-to-date packages at once 16:35:39 <OwenS> ^^ Yep 16:36:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, i have almost the slowest connection that is possible 16:36:27 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has joined #openttd 16:36:29 <OwenS> 300 baud? 16:36:38 <Sacro|Laptop> ouch, that is slow 16:36:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> i said almost ;) 16:36:42 <Rubidium> ISDN-D ? 16:36:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, i have DSL-light 16:37:09 <OwenS> Oh. At least it's not CPIP 16:37:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> (so half of normal DSL) 16:37:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's the slowest available connection that has a flatrate 16:37:52 <Descyber> sounds painful, my condolences 16:38:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> but i live 15km away from anything, so i am lucky to get DSL at all 16:38:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> it took like 5 years 16:39:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> life without flatrate (on ISDN) was more painful 16:40:15 *** Tron_ [~tron@p54A3ED60.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:40:23 <Descyber> life w/out flatfee internet.. *shudder* 16:43:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, it's like living in a 3rd world country 16:43:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, i live in east germany, so that is close enough... 16:44:26 <Descyber> germany in general is close enough, the legislation for sure is.. 16:44:46 <Descyber> gotta love banana-europe, but oh well.. 16:45:38 *** Tron [~tron@p54A3E692.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:45:52 *** Tino|Home [~Tino@i5387C137.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 16:46:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r9053 /trunk/config.lib: -Change [Config]: removed unneeded stuff for windows 16:52:58 *** TinoM| [~Tino@i5387C137.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:57:25 <ammler> back: Now; I have installed alsamixer and GUI 16:57:44 <ammler> Sound is here, but very low 17:00:11 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:03:43 *** setrodox [~setrodox@85-124-45-77.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #openttd 17:06:14 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has joined #openttd 17:13:15 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:17:43 *** glx|away [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 17:24:03 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:24:05 *** Rens2Sea is now known as Rens2Eat 17:27:01 *** ammler [~ammler@adsl-84-227-163-209.adslplus.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:42:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r9054 /trunk/src/lang/ (20 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) 17:42:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-03-07 18:39:14 17:42:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 2 fixed by arnaullv (2) 17:42:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 95 fixed, 34 changed by Ydobon (129) 17:42:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: czech - 1 fixed, 3 deleted, 109 changed by Hadez (113) 17:42:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: danish - 4 fixed by ThomasA (4) 17:42:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 2 fixed by habell (2) 17:44:19 *** maddy [~maddy@86.75.135.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:46:20 <mikk36> question 17:46:26 <mikk36> about the color system 17:46:31 <peter1138> hmm? 17:46:39 <mikk36> i can specify different colors to different stuff 17:46:40 <mikk36> but 17:46:47 <mikk36> for trains 17:47:02 <mikk36> this only matters for railroad vehicles 17:47:26 <mikk36> monorail and maglev's wagons take color from the engine 17:47:33 <peter1138> yeah 17:47:33 *** glx|away [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:47:36 <mikk36> why so ? 17:47:43 <mikk36> a "feature" ? 17:47:54 <peter1138> cos that's how i wrote it 17:48:00 <mikk36> but why ? :P 17:48:09 <peter1138> cos using monorail/maglev for freight is stupid ;p 17:48:31 <SwordFish> dno about that :P they're way faster 17:48:32 <mikk36> even passanger's wagons are same color as the engine 17:48:54 <hylje> eye candy thing 17:49:01 <peter1138> yeah, like dmu/emus 17:49:18 <hylje> consistent looking trains are way nicr 17:49:26 <mikk36> depends 17:49:41 <Smoovious> I could see using maglev for finished goods and containers and stuff... but not for raw materials... 17:50:08 <Smoovious> might not be such a good idea to haul iron ore or finished steel on maglev... :D 17:50:24 <hylje> afaik teh default grf maglev supports all cargo 17:50:30 <hylje> so why the hell not :> 17:50:40 *** ammler [~ammler@adsl-84-227-163-209.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 17:50:47 <mikk36> still, peter1138 17:51:01 <Smoovious> so make your own rolling stock GRF 17:51:21 <mikk36> even if u say that consistent color trains a nicer, why did u add an option to paint wagons for railroad trains ? 17:51:25 <Smoovious> all the GRF's are 3rd-party stuff... 17:52:18 <peter1138> cos historically railway carriages and engines have been different colours, heh 17:52:33 <mikk36> butin future they have to be the same color ? 17:52:46 <mikk36> u're restricting the design :) 17:52:51 <Smoovious> and historically (what there is of them), DMU/EMU's were all designed as a complete unit 17:53:22 <Smoovious> mikk36... the GRF authors make their GRF's according to what they want... make your own GRF if you want to 17:53:53 <mikk36> that still won't give me an option to paint maglev wagons 17:54:10 <Smoovious> its not like the OTTD group are the ones making the GRF's as part of the project... the default ones come from TTDX, and the extra ones are all independent authors... 17:54:36 <peter1138> well 17:54:43 <peter1138> what do grfs have to do with it anyway? 17:54:57 <mikk36> i don't know, i didn't bring up the grf's 17:55:09 <Smoovious> now on the other hand, yeah, I'd like the ability to change the red stripe to a blue stripe or something like that, but other than that... it is still up to what the graphics in the GRF's allow 17:55:25 <mikk36> i just want an option to paint monorail and maglev wagons to different color than the engine 17:55:41 * Smoovious sighs. 17:56:21 <Smoovious> monorail and maglev sets are designed and built as a complete unit... it isn't like standard rail where a train is frequently broken up and reassembled all the time... 17:56:45 <mikk36> but it could be ordered a different color ? 17:57:05 <mikk36> it aint like: u must use red, there's no way we will give u blue 17:57:15 <Smoovious> it could be, if the GRF supports changing the color of the graphics 17:57:46 <mikk36> ? 17:58:10 <mikk36> the standard one's maglev passenger wagons take color from the color of maglev engine 17:58:13 <mikk36> atm 17:58:42 <Smoovious> you can set all of the color options you want in OTTD, but if the graphics in the GRF file, aren't made with some changeable colors according to your color settings, then you can't change the color 17:58:55 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:59:13 <mikk36> there's even no option 17:59:30 <mikk36> passenger coach (steam, diesel and electric) 17:59:48 <mikk36> but none for maglev and monorail 17:59:50 <Smoovious> that's standard rail... standard rail is different 18:00:14 <mikk36> there are no emus and dmus either in standard set 18:00:18 <Smoovious> cuz maglev and monorail trains, typically stay intact for the life of the train... so of course they're all going to be painted the same for the whole train... it is all one unit 18:00:22 <mikk36> none of that would change color at least 18:00:32 <mikk36> *react to changing the color 18:00:34 <peter1138> yeah, i need to set the flags for those 18:00:47 <mikk36> but still there's an option 18:02:11 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 18:02:12 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 18:05:50 *** SwordFish [~asd@84-50-236-142-dsl.kjj.estpak.ee] has quit [] 18:06:54 <Descyber> ah crap, new bridges isn't in miniin? 18:07:14 <glx> it isn't in 0.5.0 so it isn't in miniin 18:07:32 <Smoovious> well, there are lots of stuff in miniin that isn't in 0.5.0 :D 18:08:15 <Descyber> hehe 18:08:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> Descyber: i posted a patch for that on the forum 18:08:38 <Descyber> Eddi|zuHause2: got a link? 18:08:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> search function? 18:08:55 <Descyber> i'm lazy :D 18:09:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, and you expect me to be different? 18:09:08 <Smoovious> so are we 18:09:32 <Descyber> sorta.. 18:09:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's not like i made more than 3 posts in the forum 18:09:52 <Descyber> gnaaa CO2 i can't hear that crap on the news anymore 18:10:09 <Smoovious> maybe time to get a hearing aid then? 18:10:14 <Descyber> :P 18:10:26 <Rubidium> didn't know you could hear CO2 18:10:36 <Smoovious> you can if it moves fast enough 18:10:51 <Descyber> well you can hear bainitic or martensic transformation in special steels.. 18:10:52 <Rubidium> but can you distinguish it from some other gas? 18:11:02 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@dD5E03DCF.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:11:11 <Smoovious> depends on how flammable it is 18:11:27 <Descyber> Eddi|zuHause2: what's your nick on the forum? 18:11:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> CO2 is flammable? that's quite some news :) 18:11:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> err... "Eddi" i assume 18:11:39 <Smoovious> "some other gas" 18:11:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> you mean "other" like N2? 18:12:15 <Descyber> hehehe 18:12:15 <Smoovious> N2, O2, H, etc 18:12:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> (which makes up 79% of all gases on earth) 18:12:32 <Descyber> if N2 burnt we'd be in trouble :P 18:12:43 <Descyber> everytime someone lights a cigarette, poof 18:12:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> if N2 burned, we would not have that much N2 in the first place 18:13:25 <Smoovious> which makes it 'unlikely' on the 'how flammable' scale then 18:13:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> actually, you should be glad that NO2 burns ;) 18:13:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> N2O i mean 18:16:30 *** SwordFish [~asd@84-50-236-142-dsl.kjj.estpak.ee] has joined #openttd 18:17:32 *** Rens2Eat is now known as Rens2Sea 18:18:32 <nairan> brennt auch net 18:19:54 <Descyber> just burn old tyres.. be creative, create roadblocks with old tyres and light those up.. 18:22:35 <mikk36> SwordFish, u got tired ? :P 18:23:31 <SwordFish> umm. of wP 18:23:34 <SwordFish> what* 18:24:17 <mikk36> hv 18:24:39 <SwordFish> nah, just trying to get my logitech momo racing wheel working 18:25:28 <SwordFish> i'll be there in 10 minutes? 18:26:01 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@dD5E03DCF.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:32:02 <Smoovious> hv? 18:33:11 *** dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-056-247-127.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 18:33:23 <dihedral> hello 18:35:02 *** Tron_ is now known as Tron 18:35:08 <mikk36> Smoovious, hv- > hinnavaatlus -> an estonian site 18:36:54 <dihedral> what is the state of a server review page? 18:39:18 <Smoovious> mikk36... thnx 18:39:43 <SwordFish> mikk36: could you tell me your server addres? Find server buttons seems not to be doing everything.. Windows reinstall soon too.. 18:40:11 <mikk36> order by name 18:40:26 <SwordFish> i dont get any servers at all.. i'll add it manualy 18:40:29 <mikk36> erm, ok 18:40:41 <mikk36> what is the default port ? 18:42:00 <mikk36> Smoovious ? 18:42:15 <SwordFish> nvm. got it already 18:42:21 <mikk36> ok :P 18:42:21 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@dD5E03DCF.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:45:40 <SpComb> hmm, a central/authorative-type authentication system for OpenTTD 18:51:23 <SpComb> http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=30817 <-- and couldn't such an AI be implemented as a network client? It would work on multiplayer games as well that way 18:54:13 *** OwenSx [~OwenS@5ac0cdc3.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 18:56:20 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:58:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Darkvater * r9055 /trunk/src/ (fios.cpp fios.h stdafx.h video/win32_v.cpp win32.cpp win32.h): -Codechange: Change windows unicode handling and allow a pure non-unicode build to function. Win9x binaries will be possible with mingw/nightly system. 19:00:53 *** OwenS [~OwenS@5ac0cd55.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:00:53 *** OwenSx is now known as OwenS 19:01:56 *** MiHaMiX changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.5.0 | Website: *.openttd.org (Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Bug-reports: bugs [DOWN - UPGRADING]) 19:02:21 *** mikl [~mikl@0x5551931e.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Quit: In the end, all that matters is your relation with God...] 19:03:55 *** green-devil [~c@0x57355739.vgnxx6.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 19:05:21 <SpComb> hmm, there's been one topic & implementation of it already 19:06:46 <hylje> :o 19:07:28 *** Tino|Home is now known as TinoM 19:08:47 * SpComb wonders if there's some aspect of it that could be done better 19:13:02 *** Purno [~Purno@5351CE71.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 19:13:33 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@87.102.1.237] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:14:16 *** nostop [~Nostop@213.236.134.3] has joined #openttd 19:16:54 *** carwe [~carwe@p54B362C5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 19:18:13 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB52BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai] 19:28:00 *** Jezral [~projectjj@130.226.173.22] has joined #openttd 19:28:39 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@adsl-213-249-184-212.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 19:29:34 *** green-devil [~c@0x57355739.vgnxx6.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [] 19:33:35 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 19:35:20 *** TinoDidri [~projectjj@nat.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:38:27 *** Bulb [~Bulb@145-119-207-85.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:40:40 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C529.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:40:43 *** DJ-ProsiT [~djprosit@82.147.246.195.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk] has joined #openttd 19:40:45 <DJ-ProsiT> YAY 19:41:40 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C529.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:42:05 <DJ-ProsiT> hmm i have a question.. is there a way to read p on how to make stuff for openttd? 19:42:47 <Rubidium> what do you mean with stuff? 19:43:14 <Rubidium> networks (as in game), graphics, code addition, translations? 19:43:20 <DJ-ProsiT> like make new stations. airports, busstations 19:43:31 <DJ-ProsiT> graphic + code i guess 19:43:50 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@82-43-58-81.cable.ubr04.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:43:55 <Rubidium> for train stations you should use newgrf 19:44:02 <DJ-ProsiT> airports? 19:44:07 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@82-43-58-81.cable.ubr04.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:44:07 <Rubidium> see the wiki of ttdpatch 19:44:07 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 19:44:13 <DJ-ProsiT> ok 19:44:18 <DJ-ProsiT> wiki 19:44:23 <DJ-ProsiT> aah 19:44:24 <Rubidium> for airports and busstations you can only replace their sprites 19:44:29 <DJ-ProsiT> lol i get the topic ;P 19:44:32 <DJ-ProsiT> hmm 19:44:47 <DJ-ProsiT> what about the international and intercontinental, those arent normal 19:45:36 <Rubidium> true, you can add new airports directly into OTTD's code, but then you wouldn't be able to play that with 'random' other people unless you distribute the code changes 19:45:49 <Rubidium> which is usually more difficult than distributing a newgrf 19:46:29 <DJ-ProsiT> yeh isee 19:46:29 *** nostop [~Nostop@213.236.134.3] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:46:32 <DJ-ProsiT> hehe 19:46:36 *** KritiK [Maxim@ppp85-140-204-193.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #openttd 19:46:45 <DJ-ProsiT> too bad about there isnt a newgrf thing for airport 19:46:46 <Rubidium> and airports are much trickier to code because they are one big finite state machine 19:46:53 <DJ-ProsiT> yeh 19:46:56 <DJ-ProsiT> i see 19:47:26 <SpComb> so whatever happaned to that central authentication system that someone wrote? Noone just ever used it? 19:47:59 <Rubidium> SpComb: wrote a proposal for 19:48:12 <SpComb> that one guy wrote an implementation for it as well 19:48:18 *** boekabart [~boekabart@g54037.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 19:49:13 <Rubidium> I've never seen it, so it must be bitrotting for quite some time 19:49:50 *** Descyber [desk@enterprise.fesb.hr] has quit [Quit: gone for the moment...] 19:50:26 <SpComb> it was 2005 or so 19:51:35 <SpComb> http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=14684 19:53:40 <Rubidium> I really wonder what such a system should accomplish 19:54:25 <SpComb> well, provided that the signup process was difficult to automate and such, then it would primarily provide an easy to ban players 19:54:26 <Rubidium> because by default rejecting everybody is not good 19:54:51 <Rubidium> and banning players with it is useless too, because you can just sign up again 19:54:52 <hylje> its up to the server hoster 19:54:59 <SpComb> but then you could also do things like stats for players 19:55:11 <SpComb> "what servers are my friends playing right now?" 19:55:17 <DJ-ProsiT> Rubidium thanks alot.. ill be reading my arse off ;P 19:55:29 <SpComb> Rubidium: as I said, provided that the signup process was difficult to automate 19:55:37 <DJ-ProsiT> so if my server is hosting a game, can i add live newgrf? somehow? 19:55:57 <Rubidium> DJ-ProsiT: not while it is actually running 19:56:00 <SpComb> it could also serve to replace company passwords 19:56:09 *** ammler_ [~ammler@adsl-84-227-163-209.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 19:56:10 <SpComb> "this is the list of people allowed to control this company" 19:56:21 <SpComb> server passwords as well 19:56:33 <hylje> "only friends of host can join" 19:56:37 <SpComb> you just give it an ACL and you don't have to trust everyone to keep the password secret 19:56:57 <SpComb> if you use it to keep track of a player's reputation then you can require a certian level of karma to play or something 19:57:06 <SpComb> although that could get silly quickly if everyone required it 19:57:09 <Rubidium> but if Brianetta (for example) is going to do that on his servers, no new players can join him 19:57:19 <Smoovious> <mikk36> Smoovious ? <--- ya? 19:57:29 <SpComb> banning is not the only use for it 19:57:42 <Rubidium> for OpenTTDCoop it might be nice, but for most of the public servers it is useless 19:57:47 <SpComb> and it may be possible to somehow give an incentive for players to use it, I don't know 19:57:57 <SpComb> well, depends on how you implement it 19:58:14 <hylje> we could still have anonymous users 19:58:34 <Rubidium> any way you implement it, the lame people trashing whole maps issue will not be solved 19:58:54 <SpComb> it would also be possible to tie it into the tt-forums user database like e.g. grfcrawler does 19:58:58 <Rubidium> because they can just request a new 'user id' and join to another server 19:59:14 <SpComb> you have to come up with some way to stop that from being effective 19:59:17 <Smoovious> maybe it would help for rating players too... so say if a server wants to run an expert-only game, then only people who have won X games can join or something 19:59:18 <SpComb> dunno how myself 19:59:20 <Rubidium> *and join with the other 'user id' 19:59:20 <Noldo> I wonder if ident could be used for what SpComb is proposing 19:59:32 <SpComb> ident in terms of the ident protocol? No 19:59:37 <Rubidium> Smoovious: that rating can be forged easily 19:59:41 <DJ-ProsiT> why is TT so addicting lol 19:59:46 <SpComb> that's not what ident is for, and using it like that is what causes people to think it's pointless 19:59:46 <hylje> its very much a ident system with a central trusted server 19:59:49 <Smoovious> Rubidium... anything can be forged, not the point 20:00:03 <SpComb> the only identd server a person can trust is one that he runs himself 20:00:38 *** ammler [~ammler@adsl-84-227-163-209.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:00:44 <Smoovious> the vast majority of players wouldn't bother forging to begin with... 20:00:46 <hylje> i believe the official openttd identification server would be trusted in the context of ottd servers 20:00:59 <SpComb> it would probably work along the lines of the client getting a token from the login server for a specific game server, passing that token to the game server, which then passes it back to the login server to get info on the player 20:01:15 <Smoovious> and the few that do, you can easily figure out if their level of play matches their listed skill level... 20:01:16 <Rubidium> Smoovious: but the people who want to destruct other peoples game do 20:01:24 <SpComb> I think Noldo was talking about identd/the ident protocol, which is quite different and entirely not appropriate for this 20:01:49 <Smoovious> Rubidium... any method that is made can be sidestepped... it isn't reason enough to just not do it at all 20:02:48 <Rubidium> implementing a system with the main idea to stop malicious users to connect to the server should not be implemented in such a way that it is easily sidestepped 20:03:13 <Rubidium> because the people who want to do damage will not hesitate to spend a few minutes to sidestep the system 20:03:29 *** ammler_ is now known as ammler 20:03:30 <Smoovious> no it shouldn't... but as long as such a system is being implemented anyways, why not set it up in such a way that it has more uses than just what is basically, a blacklist? 20:04:25 <Smoovious> why couldn't it serve both functions 20:05:33 <SpComb> you have to find some way to make it cumbersome enough for prospective vandals that they can't be arsed doing it more than a couple times 20:05:43 <Sacro|Laptop> yup 20:05:47 * Smoovious nods. 20:05:55 <SpComb> ideally it wouldn't fall down in the face of a determined attacker either 20:06:32 <SpComb> and then there's the positive-features side of it, like stats, player tracking, etc 20:06:51 <Smoovious> that's what I'm talking about, SpComb 20:07:11 <Smoovious> they should both be able to go hand-in-hand 20:08:32 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@adsl-213-249-184-212.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:08:40 <SpComb> so there's the abuse-prevention aspect (blacklist), the authorization (whitelist), and the tracking (stats) side of it 20:08:46 <Smoovious> and for stats tracking, both the server, and the client should submit their win... and it'll only count if they both match 20:09:13 <SpComb> dunno about that, you can't trust the server OR the client there, really 20:09:47 <Smoovious> well, then there's no point in keeping stats if you aren't gonna trust either of them... who else are you going to get stats from? 20:10:05 <SpComb> and there's nothing stopping someone from setting up a couple servers and a couple clients that all fake stats for eachother 20:10:07 <Rubidium> what use have forged stats? 20:10:18 <SpComb> dunno, I'm not particularly concerned about that aspect now 20:10:46 <SpComb> the what-server-is-this-player-playing-on-now aspect is simpler to implement and quite useful as of itself 20:10:48 <Rubidium> ooh, only the best 10 players may play on this server, well... lets make myself one of the best 10 players 20:10:49 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 20:10:55 <Smoovious> SpComb... nope... but if someone sees something hinky going on, well, then that earns a ban... and should be set manually... no program that is come up with, is going tobe able to detect everything 20:11:02 <Smoovious> there's always going to be a loophole 20:11:02 <Rubidium> and secondly, how do you rate the quality of players? 20:11:12 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has joined #openttd 20:11:32 <Rubidium> but something hinky doesn't mean something malicious is going on 20:11:44 <Smoovious> Rubidium... I would say only rate based on what place they're in when the end-game date comes along 20:12:03 <Smoovious> there's so many map variations... trying to account for them all is going to be a losing battle 20:12:19 <Rubidium> so you can better play on a map with 'losers' than become second on a map with the top 10 players 20:12:28 <Smoovious> now if a player won, say, 8 games in 2 days, that'd be a good sign that they're cheating their stats... 20:12:39 <Smoovious> they'll even out in time 20:12:47 <Smoovious> law of averages 20:13:04 *** ChrisM87 [~ChrisM@p54AC7F31.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:13:53 <Smoovious> it is possible to make the ratings so overly complicated that it'll just suck... 20:14:37 <Smoovious> use the performance rating as part of the stat too if you want to 20:15:51 *** ChrisM87 [~ChrisM@p54AC7F31.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:20:01 *** Sacro|Laptop [Ben@adsl-213-249-184-212.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 20:20:31 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@82-43-58-81.cable.ubr04.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:21:01 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@82-43-58-81.cable.ubr04.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:23:30 *** Purno_ [~Purno@5351CE71.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 20:23:32 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:24:35 *** Purno_ [~Purno@5351CE71.cable.casema.nl] has quit [] 20:24:40 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has joined #openttd 20:25:43 <dihedral> is the random seed alwyas 10 digits? 20:26:07 <SpComb> more likely to have a certain number of bits (probably 32) 20:26:25 <dihedral> well - from a regex point of view :-) 20:27:36 <dihedral> i output some data to a file every month and to be able to defrenciate from data related to another game - the seed would be an amazing link as this will be different for each new game - right? 20:28:18 *** DJ_Mirage [~sexybigge@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: www.sexybiggetje.nl] 20:28:27 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:28:30 <dihedral> or is there a small chance for the random seed to appear more than once? 20:29:17 <SpComb> over the course of 2^32+1 games, there is no way it could not 20:29:30 <SpComb> assuming it's 32 bits (unsigned) 20:29:58 *** Purno [~Purno@5351CE71.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:30:12 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has joined #openttd 20:30:18 <SpComb> so if you play around four billion games you are garunteed to get at least one seed at least twice 20:31:31 <dihedral> so the chances are low - but it could be possible to happen in a course of 2 weeks? 20:33:28 <dihedral> anything i can count on to be unique per game? 20:36:28 <SpComb> the timestamp? 20:36:30 *** Klanticus [~klanticus@143.107.231.153] has joined #openttd 20:37:49 <dihedral> ah - yeah - let me explain - from the dedicated server console :-) 20:38:11 <dihedral> something unique to the game, bad constant during the game? 20:38:52 *** HMage` [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has joined #openttd 20:38:52 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:41:34 <HMage`> ???????? - "???????? ???????", ????? - "???????? ???????". 20:41:40 <HMage`> erp, wrong window 20:43:28 <Sacro|Laptop> HMage`: and wrong language 20:43:40 <HMage`> that's because wrong window 20:43:44 <Sacro|Laptop> :) 20:43:58 <HMage`> so there's only one cause of this, not two 20:45:06 <SpComb> how does the master server prune old servers from the list? 20:45:25 <SpComb> does the advertised server maintain a connection to the master server while it is up? 20:46:05 <HMage`> SpComb: if the server doesn't send a heartbeat to master for more than nnn seconds, it's pruned 20:46:14 <SpComb> udp? 20:46:30 <HMage`> dunno, but that's how masterservers are done for almost all games 20:47:28 <SpComb> I was thinking that you could combine the master listing server and the login server into one 20:48:18 <SpComb> and then also wondering what interesting things you could also add to this combo 20:48:37 <SpComb> hrhr replicated master servers 20:48:49 <HMage`> usually if there's need to auth someone there are separate auth servers, that's safer that way. 20:54:34 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C529.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:54:36 *** HMage` [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:54:50 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has joined #openttd 20:56:24 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C529.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:59:14 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:00:19 <dihedral> what exactly is the goal of the login server? 21:00:39 <dihedral> i mean - what do you want to 'solve' with adding an auth server to the game? 21:01:20 <SpComb> there's three aspects that I have in mind 21:01:32 <SpComb> whitelist, blacklist, and stats/tracking/whateveryouwanttocallit 21:02:10 <SpComb> sticking the master server and the login server into one would probably open up other interesting possibilities that I haven't thought of so far 21:02:34 <dihedral> but white and blacklisting would only work if people were only able to obtain ONE set of login details 21:02:51 <Rubidium> the masterserver and login server will never be the same executable 21:02:55 <SpComb> whitelisting doesn't have that issue, with blacklisting it is an issue 21:03:13 <SpComb> whitelisting == these players are allowed to join this server/manage this company 21:03:25 <dihedral> just a thought 21:03:34 <dihedral> an id that is unique to a computer 21:03:51 <Rubidium> the masterserver only sets servers online/offline (or server request), there is a separate process that gets the game information from the servers and makes them offline when the server doesn't react 21:03:57 <Nigel> SpComb: there are ways around that 21:03:57 <SpComb> and how do you garuntee that what you send over the network is said unique id? 21:04:12 <SpComb> Nigel: what do you mean exactly? 21:04:26 <dihedral> eg the processor serial number :-) 21:04:32 <dihedral> or the pci bus id 21:04:40 <Nigel> not foolproof, but it would help somewhat 21:04:51 <SpComb> what's to stop someone from modifying openttd to send some arbitrary number instead? 21:04:52 <dihedral> using those details as the client-id? 21:05:06 <Nigel> SpComb: thats why I said not foolproof 21:05:13 <SpComb> the idea is that there is a central authority that people trust 21:05:28 <dihedral> well - you need a handshake in which data is transmitted and the way of encrypting the id 21:05:30 <SpComb> and it then provides some garuntees to servers about who a client is 21:05:55 <dihedral> 1. client wants to join 21:06:11 <dihedral> 2. server sends salt and encryption style 21:06:19 <dihedral> ah.... 21:06:22 <dihedral> ;-P 21:06:25 <SpComb> 3. client replies with arbitrary number 21:06:38 *** Desolator [~admin@86.126.43.192] has joined #openttd 21:06:46 <dihedral> isbn's have a way of calculating calidity 21:06:54 <dihedral> *validity 21:07:02 <dihedral> i am confident these id's will too 21:07:14 <Nigel> but honestly, would people *really* miss blacklisting 21:07:29 <SpComb> blacklisting is just one part of the login server plan 21:07:33 <Rubidium> dihedral: isbn validity is simple and easily spoofable 21:07:40 <dihedral> well - you could list blacklisted clients publicly for other admins 21:07:48 <Nigel> also, if someone is really intent on getting around a blacklisting, no matter how advanced the bl technology is, they are going to find a way 21:07:51 <dihedral> true - but processor id's 21:08:02 <dihedral> pci bus id's 21:08:09 <Rubidium> dihedral: and the blacklister gets another ID at the server... 21:08:17 <Rubidium> the authorisation server that is 21:08:21 <SpComb> the issue with blacklisting is you have to find something that makes it undesireable for vandals 21:08:51 <dihedral> and hackers (crackers) 21:08:57 <SpComb> it has to be very simple for honest users, but enough trouble to not be worth it for vandals 21:09:09 <dihedral> na 21:09:19 <dihedral> if you do that you will be surprised one day 21:09:24 <Nigel> haha 21:09:28 * Nigel just had an idea 21:09:33 <Rubidium> dihedral: and everything the client sends can be spoofed very easily 21:09:36 <dihedral> do something more secure than that 21:09:39 <Nigel> use a CACert-style WoT 21:09:48 <SpComb> WoT? 21:09:53 <Nigel> or even implement CACert certificates 21:09:53 <Rubidium> so PCI bus id are really useless 21:09:59 <Nigel> WoT = Web or Trust 21:10:02 <Nigel> *of 21:10:09 <SpComb> you could make people pay for registration... 21:10:11 <SpComb> :P 21:10:20 <Nigel> CACert is free 21:10:23 <dihedral> data could generally ssl? 21:10:26 <SpComb> Nigel: details, not just acronym expansions 21:10:31 <dihedral> *be 21:10:34 <dihedral> *ssl'ed 21:10:55 <dihedral> all data encrypted? 21:10:58 <dihedral> not a good idea 21:11:25 <SpComb> this problem may have been solved in PKI systems though, I'll read up on those now 21:11:27 <dihedral> the dedicated server would constantly have to communicate with the auth server to get the actual unencrypted data back 21:11:48 <Nigel> CACert is a free personal (and webserver) certificate provider, which relies on a Web of Trust etc etc etc, if the login process required the use of a SSL certificate that had be verified, then that makes it harder for vandals 21:12:02 <Nigel> CACert is at http://www.cacert.org 21:12:15 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB52BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:12:19 <dihedral> yeah but it is not easy to get one in the first place :-) 21:12:41 <dihedral> but you do not need a publicly trusted ca 21:13:05 <dihedral> you need a ca (self signed) by openttd.org and a fingerprint listed on the website 21:13:17 <dihedral> which is not too hard to do 21:13:21 <Nigel> then your back to square one 21:13:21 <dihedral> in fact not hard at all 21:13:32 <Rubidium> but how do you create user certificates? 21:13:40 <Sacro|Laptop> because its GPL software, anything you code in can for security can be overwritten 21:13:49 <Nigel> also, you can get an unverified certificate from the likes of CACert etc 21:14:09 <dihedral> dedicated server starts 21:14:13 <dihedral> in ssl mode 21:14:19 <dihedral> talkes to auth server 21:14:37 <dihedral> auth server send back a string (key signed for the current game) 21:15:00 <dihedral> that could be enough to encrypt data between clients and server 21:15:19 <dihedral> no further communication (regarding a cert) from dedicated to auth server 21:15:24 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C529.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:15:29 <dihedral> na 21:15:32 <dihedral> not good :-D 21:15:34 <Rubidium> dihedral: the problem isn't the data send between the clients and the server it is whether you can trust the user/client is actually who he says he is 21:16:01 <Nigel> thats why i'm saying use a current certificate authority like CACert 21:16:37 <Nigel> the free Web of Trust authorities have a global spread these days 21:16:40 <Rubidium> how would that help with respect of the trustability of a client? 21:16:47 <dihedral> what will stop users from getting a new cert? 21:16:51 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C529.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:16:52 <SpComb> Sacro|Laptop: which means that you have to develop something truly secure, and not just rely on some obfuscated protections ;) 21:16:55 <dihedral> ha - little slow there 21:17:06 <dihedral> aye 21:17:17 <dihedral> but getting there is the fun part :-) 21:17:28 *** caladan [~caladan@161-be2-18.acn.waw.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:17:31 <Nigel> Rubidium: because when someone goes through Web of Trust, there name is basically engraved on the certificate 21:17:37 <Sacro|Laptop> SpComb: indeed... makes it more challenging at least 21:17:37 <dihedral> + being happy with an "ok for now" solution will not work 21:18:00 <SpComb> the way this WoT could apply to here is having exisitng players endorse new players and thence building up their karma in some way 21:18:00 <dihedral> will not be good enough 21:18:07 <dihedral> too many people were happy with that kind of stuff 21:18:10 <Rubidium> Nigel: and how easy is it for me to get a second certificate with another name? 21:18:14 <Nigel> also, the CAs only allow 1 certificate per email at a time 21:18:16 * SpComb wonders if a karma system would be a good idea 21:18:31 <Nigel> Rubidium: read up on Web of Trust, it's very hard 21:18:37 <dihedral> let me give an example: 21:18:41 <dihedral> terrorists 21:18:45 <SpComb> there's plenty of issues with one of those as well 21:18:46 <Nigel> http://www.cacert.org has some good documentation 21:18:53 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C529.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:18:54 <dihedral> they always appear friendly and harmless to their surroundings 21:19:05 <dihedral> it is in the last second the something happens 21:19:16 <dihedral> you want to stop that from happening in the first place 21:19:30 <Nigel> its not a case "oh yeah, this guy is trustworthy" it's a case of "this guy is Joe Blogs, just like his drivers license says he is" 21:19:43 <SpComb> what WoT essentially is is that users trust some other users that they know in real life, and if those users trust some key, then you trust said key as well 21:19:45 <dihedral> ok 21:20:04 <dihedral> but you do not want the real name, nor the emal address 21:20:07 <Nigel> SpComb: thats more PGP 21:20:23 <Rubidium> SpComb: and what stops a group of say 3 people to become evil and sign eachothers new certificates? 21:20:31 <dihedral> true 21:20:31 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C529.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:21:00 <Nigel> Rubidium: you have to already be in the WoT to sign certificates 21:21:16 <Rubidium> that's why I said become evil 21:21:22 <dihedral> certificates can be 'purchased' by donation 21:21:30 <Rubidium> they are in the WoT 21:21:36 <dihedral> dedicated servers can choos to only allow users with certificates 21:21:59 <dihedral> /yr 21:22:15 <dihedral> no 'test'certs 21:22:35 <dihedral> or an option to allow clients with test certs or not 21:22:41 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387C137.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:23:04 *** lopmr [~man@cust-231-166.dsl.versateladsl.be] has joined #openttd 21:23:08 <Smoovious> you can get a digital signature for your email from Thawte for free... I've used one for years 21:23:19 <Nigel> Smoovious: exactly 21:23:23 <Smoovious> dunno if there are others that are free or not 21:23:38 *** caladan [~caladan@161-be2-18.acn.waw.pl] has joined #openttd 21:23:40 <Nigel> i was using CACert because they are more behind the free philosophy 21:23:54 <Smoovious> tho if I want my real name on it, that'll cost me and I need to authenticate it, but just for the email addy, no charge 21:23:57 <dihedral> but that would mean you were depending on thwarte to provide free email certs 21:24:02 <Nigel> errr using CACert as an example 21:24:05 *** boekabart [~boekabart@g54037.upc-g.chello.nl] has left #openttd [Your eyes grow heavy.. you grow very sleepy..... zzzz...] 21:24:09 <Nigel> Smoovious: no, Thawte WoT is free 21:24:34 <dihedral> *thawte 21:25:12 <lopmr> hi.i am trying to install openttd on my ubuntu system.i have installed the .deb and copied the *.grf's and sample.cat.but when i open openttd i get messages like "Your 'nsignalsw.grf' file is corrupted or missing!" can somebody help? 21:25:26 <Smoovious> WoT? 21:25:37 <Nigel> Web of Trust 21:26:04 <dihedral> make sure you are using lowercase filenames 21:26:05 <Smoovious> ahh, I haven't needed a web-cert yet... so couldn't speak on that specifically... just saying Thawte did have some free ones. :) 21:26:16 <dihedral> make sure they are in /usr/share/games/openttd/data 21:27:18 <lopmr> in my data dir are these file: "sample.cat trg1r.grf trgcr.grf trghr.grf trgir.grf trgtr.grf" 21:28:01 <Smoovious> you need a nsignalsw.grf file 21:28:11 <Sacro|Laptop> indeed... 21:28:18 <Sacro|Laptop> as well as things like openttd.grf 21:28:23 <dihedral> as the message tells you :-) 21:29:11 <Rubidium> the installer should have installed those files into the correct directory 21:29:20 <dihedral> you can use the tar.gz or the windows zip and take the files out of there 21:29:27 <dihedral> they are installed in the right dir 21:29:32 <dihedral> i used the same deb 21:29:47 <dihedral> with the diff of me running on debian etch 21:29:48 <Rubidium> blathijs: do you have any idea why the debian installer does not install the grfs under Ubuntu? 21:30:06 <dihedral> i had that issue with my first install 21:30:19 <dihedral> make sure you have enough permissions to read those files 21:30:25 <dihedral> you installed as root 21:30:32 <dihedral> you are playing not as root i hope :-) 21:31:03 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C529.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:32:01 <lopmr> i have found the files.the game is working :) great.thanks guys :) it looks like rollercoaster tycoon :) 21:32:11 <dihedral> how about shipping openttd with a closed source file? 21:32:53 <Rubidium> lopmr: not strange, TTD is the ancestor of Rollercoaster Tycoon 21:33:20 <Rubidium> dihedral: won't happen... something with GPL 21:33:33 <dihedral> you still need the grf files right? 21:33:33 <Nigel> Rubidium: because a .deb for Debian is not always totally compatible with ubuntu 21:34:12 <dihedral> you could be dependant on a closed source file and release that under a diff license 21:34:13 <Nigel> anyway, work to do, i'm out 21:34:17 <Rubidium> Nigel: but copying some files shouldn't be a problem imho; it could copy the openttd binary itself, but not the data files <- that is weird 21:34:39 <Nigel> Rubidium: it's possible 21:34:42 <dihedral> you dont know for shure that was the case 21:35:02 <dihedral> if you aint have read perms for those files and do an ls they will not show up 21:35:11 <lopmr> Rubidium: does Rollercoaster Tycoon also run on linux? 21:35:37 <Rubidium> lopmr: maybe in wine 21:35:43 <dihedral> hehe 21:36:13 <dihedral> getting back to a closed source file 21:36:28 <dihedral> i have seen a few apps released under gpl 21:36:37 <dihedral> but still reliant on a commercial product 21:38:37 <Smoovious> but the commercial product isn't distributed with it... and they aren't integrated... 21:38:54 <dihedral> it could be a seperate download 21:39:13 <Smoovious> if the commercial product, depends on the gpl software to function, that's a problem... 21:39:41 <dihedral> no it is not 21:40:04 <dihedral> the commercial product does not have to be dependant on it - it could be a security api 21:40:23 <dihedral> fixed function you need to call in a certain order :-) 21:40:26 <Smoovious> the API would be stand-alone tho 21:40:46 <dihedral> nope 21:40:56 <dihedral> would require the game to transmit the data 21:41:06 <Smoovious> actually, go google Novell Microsoft GPL and you should find a bunch of articles about that very question right now 21:41:07 <dihedral> but that data can be encrypted 21:41:29 *** PandaMojo [~chatzilla@ip72-197-231-130.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #openttd 21:41:31 <Rubidium> dihedral: and you think that that blackbox won't be cracked within a few minutes? 21:41:50 <dihedral> no 21:42:23 <dihedral> as long as nobody pays for backwards engerneering 21:42:29 <Rubidium> he, look, this blackbox gets the PCI bus ID, lets write my own one 21:42:58 <dihedral> how do you want to know what exactly it gets and transmitts? 21:43:10 <Smoovious> sniffing 21:43:16 <dihedral> encryption 21:43:24 <dihedral> sniff as much as you like 21:43:41 <Smoovious> all encryption will do is add a layer of difficulty 21:43:54 <dihedral> kinda 21:44:00 <Smoovious> no kinda... exactly 21:44:02 <dihedral> bb has 2 ends 21:44:05 <dihedral> client and server 21:44:11 <Smoovious> and? 21:44:21 <dihedral> (and i might realize a little issue in a jiffy but let me think) 21:44:23 <Smoovious> no point in encrypting something if there isn't a destination to decrypt it 21:44:34 <dihedral> just said - 2 ends 21:44:37 <dihedral> server client 21:44:49 <Smoovious> every encryption path has 2 ends 21:44:52 <Smoovious> it is a given 21:44:59 <dihedral> aye 21:45:06 <Sacro|Laptop> why not use openssh with keys? 21:45:08 *** SwordFish [~asd@84-50-236-142-dsl.kjj.estpak.ee] has quit [] 21:45:17 <dihedral> but the client does not need to be able to decrypt what it encrypts 21:45:32 <dihedral> it needs to be able to decrypt what the server encrypts 21:45:34 <Smoovious> ... 21:45:40 <Smoovious> and? 21:46:08 <dihedral> in a handshake (also encrypted) a random salt is transfered 21:46:22 <Smoovious> which is transferred in clear 21:46:34 <dihedral> just said - encrypted 21:46:40 <Smoovious> I know 21:46:50 <dihedral> that does not make it clear does it now 21:46:54 *** Klanticus [~klanticus@143.107.231.153] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:47:15 <Smoovious> you have to start the handshake in clear or what encryption key are you going to use? 21:47:38 <Smoovious> and if you start encrypted to begin with, what's the point of handshaking encryption when you're already encrypted? 21:47:47 <dihedral> https for example - handshake aint clear text 21:47:53 <DaleStan> Server sends its public key. Client encrypts using server's public key, and then only server can decrypt. 21:48:03 <Smoovious> right 21:48:10 <Smoovious> (that was to DaleStan) 21:48:14 <dihedral> anyhow - it's an idea 21:48:15 <Smoovious> the public key, is sent in clear 21:48:26 <dihedral> you can have that hardcoded 21:48:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> am i the only person getting headaches when reading this? 21:48:52 <DaleStan> At this point, client -> server communication is secure, so client can send a symmetric key, or that can also be a pub/priv pair. 21:49:07 <Smoovious> think DeCSS when it comes to hardcoding a key 21:49:17 <Sacro|Laptop> DaleStan: using OpenSSL? 21:49:31 <dihedral> Smoovious: if you think it is so easy to crack keys - tell me why it is not so easy to crack wpa? 21:49:45 <Smoovious> I didn't claim it was easy... 21:49:52 <Smoovious> I said it adds another layer of difficulty 21:50:09 <dihedral> nothing you do will be anything else 21:50:20 <Sacro|Laptop> how about we try wrappign openssl around the networking code 21:50:29 <Smoovious> keys can be broken however... it simply takes time 21:50:30 <Rubidium> seems that a large part of the people in this debate do not understand that the client-server connection is not the problem, but the trust the server has in the validity of the identify of the client 21:51:00 * Smoovious nods to Rubidium 21:51:23 <dihedral> well - i am off to bed 21:51:52 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C529.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:52:10 <dihedral> i shall do some reading up on stuff and some more thinking in depth..,. to give you guys some more headache :-D 21:52:14 <dihedral> good night guys 21:52:15 <DaleStan> Oh. Then I'm discussing the wrong thing. Proof that the client is the same person/computer as last time is possible, but proof of not-the-same is not possible. 21:52:23 <Sacro|Laptop> Smoovious: then revoke/reissue 21:52:29 *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@213.211.185.168] has quit [] 21:52:39 *** dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-056-247-127.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0.0.2/2007021917]] 21:53:04 * Smoovious nods. 21:53:35 <Smoovious> DaleStan... can put together a string based on hardware detection like windows and µT do 21:53:58 <Smoovious> it wouldn't uniquely identify everyone, but it is a start 21:54:39 <Rubidium> Smoovious: can you make it work on Amiga/MorphOS/PSP? 21:54:44 <Sacro|Laptop> Smoovious: no you cant 21:54:54 <Smoovious> Rubidium... nope... I haven't used any of those 21:54:57 <Sacro|Laptop> it can be randomly generated on loading without much effort 21:55:27 <DaleStan> Indeed. Not possible for an open source program. It's too easy to replace the black box that does hardware detection with one that does something else. 21:55:34 <Smoovious> hey... any single method that can be dreamed up, can be faked... 21:56:01 <Smoovious> if a fool-proof system is what is being looked for, it doesn't exist, it never will exist, so why bother 21:56:36 <Belugas> night all. 21:56:37 <Rubidium> too bad there isn't a global DigiD or so :) 21:56:51 * Smoovious gasps. 21:57:04 * Smoovious makes frantic warding gestures at Rubidium 21:57:22 *** lopmr [~man@cust-231-166.dsl.versateladsl.be] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 21:58:27 *** MiHaMiX changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.5.0 | Website: *.openttd.org (Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Bug-reports: bugs) 21:58:42 <MiHaMiX> upgrade to FS 0.9.9 postponed 21:58:53 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@dD5E03DCF.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:03 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C529.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:01:30 <Smoovious> how come? 22:02:35 <Naksu> FS? 22:02:44 <Rubidium> Smoovious: failing queries in the upgrade process, starting with the first 22:02:48 <Rubidium> FlySpray 22:03:07 <Smoovious> bummer 22:09:16 <DJ-ProsiT> hmm can anyone tell me how dedicated behaves, and if i an use dediated WITH newgrf? 22:12:25 <Rubidium> basically the same as the non-dedicated server, but without the GUI 22:12:28 *** thgergo [~th_gergo@dsl51B7A123.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:13:11 <Rubidium> you can use newgrfs by adding them to [newgrf] in openttd.cfg when starting a new game. When starting a scenario or loading a game it uses the newgrfs as saved in the scenario/savegame. 22:14:10 <DJ-ProsiT> hmm so basically using dedicated is basically creating a map like in normal also? 22:14:22 <mikk36> Smoovious, don't u read any lines before your highlight ? 22:15:07 <Rubidium> DJ-ProsiT: unless you start it with an extra "-g <savegame/scenario>" parameter 22:15:31 <Rubidium> but yes, it behaves like the normal server 22:15:51 <DJ-ProsiT> hmm oil_refinery_limit = 16 means? 22:15:58 <DJ-ProsiT> its hard to even build one 22:16:13 <Rubidium> that oil refineries need to be within 16 tiles from the edge 22:16:36 <DJ-ProsiT> aaah 22:16:49 <DJ-ProsiT> why cant i place it on open places? 22:17:02 <DJ-ProsiT> says that its not valid or something 22:17:15 <DJ-ProsiT> i had to generate a VERY expencive island with it on ;P 22:18:18 <DJ-ProsiT> doesn it ahve to be far away from towns? and stuff... 22:23:45 <DJ-ProsiT> hmm what is Sample.cat doing in my data folder? 22:24:13 <valhalla1w> having samples to play? ;) 22:25:21 <Smoovious> <mikk36> Smoovious, don't u read any lines before your highlight ? <--- sometimes, sometimes not 22:25:26 <DJ-ProsiT> hehe 22:25:30 <DJ-ProsiT> is it the game that creates it? 22:26:04 <Rubidium> no, it was you who copied it to there (or your installer did) 22:26:14 <Smoovious> if someone says just my nick, usually not... if someone includes my nick in a full line of text as part of a conversation, usually 22:27:12 <mikk36> well, the question was just above ur highlight 22:27:14 *** valhalla1w is now known as valhallasw 22:27:22 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-61-130.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 22:27:26 <Smoovious> ahh... >scrolls way back< 22:27:51 <Smoovious> 2007-03-07 13:40:14 UPC-5 | <mikk36> what is the default port ? <--- I don't know, check the wiki 22:28:02 <mikk36> doesn't matter any more anyway 22:28:06 <mikk36> :P 22:28:08 <Smoovious> :D 22:29:07 <DJ-ProsiT> probably installer them 22:29:09 <DJ-ProsiT> then 22:31:10 *** XeryusTC2 [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 22:33:12 *** HMage` [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has joined #openttd 22:33:20 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:36:51 <Brianetta> SpComb: Email admin to create account on server - just a thought. 22:36:55 <Brianetta> Hello, btw 22:38:28 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:38:30 <SpComb> Brianetta: more like email admin to add your account to the server's whitelist 22:39:05 <SpComb> the idea is specifically to form a global authentication/identitity server, not just for blacklisting 22:42:08 *** Desolator [~admin@86.126.43.192] has quit [] 22:45:12 <Brianetta> SpComb: In which case, rather than a central auth service, use public keys 22:45:12 <Brianetta> Keys must be signed by the server's admin before they can play 22:45:15 *** PandaMojo [~chatzilla@ip72-197-231-130.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.74 [Firefox 1.5.0.10/2007021601]] 22:47:20 *** XeryusTC2 is now known as XeryusTC 22:48:10 *** ChrisM87 [~ChrisM@p54AC7F31.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:51:39 <SpComb> I was considering some PKI-style thing, but that doesn't e.g. let the central server know what server some player is playing on, for instance 22:53:34 *** e1ko [~L@a02-0432b.kn.vutbr.cz] has quit [Quit: bye, Im going off] 23:01:29 *** OwenS [~OwenS@5ac0cdc3.bb.sky.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:04:16 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-83-100-130-87.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 23:04:19 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-83-100-130-87.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [] 23:06:48 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-61-130.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Tobin] 23:15:19 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has joined #openttd 23:19:26 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz 23:19:31 *** HMage` [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:33:10 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:34:17 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:52:45 *** ammler_ [~ammler@adsl-84-227-163-209.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 23:53:38 *** ammler_ is now known as ammler_away 23:54:28 *** ammler [~ammler@adsl-84-227-163-209.adslplus.ch] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by ammler_away))] 23:58:23 *** AmpCoder [~AmpCoder@r41h97.res.gatech.edu] has joined #openttd 23:58:33 *** BFM [~chatzilla@CPE-138-130-145-137.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd